I have tried all kinds of coffee makers, to date a percolator has made the best and hottest cup of coffee, I found the coffee bean is what I Have found to tingle my taste buds, I hate already ground coffee, I order the bean as you do and grind to my specific liking. My pot takes about three minutes and I let it sit an extra 1, I have tried many types of coffees, I am always sampling different mixtures different company’s. It amazes me the variety of coffee that is grown on our planet. I might try your method of brewing just to see if there is a difference. I tried a French press method of brewing, needless to say I feel it was a waste of money. I am a diehard coffee lover so I am always looking for that perfect taste. I enjoyed your video, it was very informative because I’ve never thought of brewing coffee that way.
I'm splitting my sides laughing at the "James Hoffman" make over. Admit it Sp-man, you're just jealous of his hair! Another great video, fascinating result.
Great video! I would add some personal thoughts, the biggest drawback that i see by doing this is the actual water coming from the espresso machine which is altered by the actual boiler (it is staying there for some time) - a good test would be taste the water coming out of the Linea vs the input water and mark the differences. Also, the water that we use to fill our espresso boiler is usually one with lower Ca/Mg to avoid scale while in the brew methods we can use a higher Mg water to improve extraction without affecting too much the kettle. If water was not an issue and there could be a profile restriction valve on the machine + something like the melodrip then i think it would have been fine !
Have you ever looked at “coffee shots” or also known as “caffe crema”? Would be interesting to learn more about it and see what recipe you come up with. There’s not a ton of info out there but essentially it’s making a pour over/brewed coffee using your portafilter and grinding coarser so you can extract a longer cup. Cat & Cloud uses this method for all of their “brewed” coffees at their cafe’s and have a machine (I believe a strada) dialed back to 3bar specifically for this.
Yes! I have had these. I think they call it coffee by the cup at Cat & Cloud. I haven’t done it myself. But I may give it a go. My concern with those is sediment and fines making its way into the cup and leaving me with something that essentially tastes like a French Press. But I will give a go and see what I can come up with. I did think about that as I was producing this video.
I think this is an interesting video, but I'm left with questions! 1. You'd need to control the temperature of the water. A good pouring kettle is temperature controlled, and even a few changes in degrees can make a big difference to the outcome of the pourover. Espresso machines have very high temperature settings, and lower end models that you'd find in your typical home kitchen wouldn't have temperature control at all. He's obviously using a pretty expensive high end home machine with the Linea Mini, but still. 2. You need to control flow rate. The time of the brew will control the extraction. Once again not a feature in most domestic espresso machines. 3. If you do have a fancy espresso machine that can control these two variables, then you typically need to be prewarming your machine for quite a lot of time. It would still be a lot faster to just use a typical temperature controlled pouring kettle. I think it's a cool idea, and I can understand that using something like machine that Rao is behind which allows the tuning of everything makes sense. But I don't think it's really that practical for the average home barista. Am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing one more point. In some fancy machines with dual boiler the brew boiler is not designed to output the amount of water to brew filter coffee at once.
The Real Sprometheus Turns out the only set up I had at hand that I could fit under my group is an ikea glass and a moccamaster cup-one filter holder. Used 7.5g coffee and 120g water. Took about 3:30 from start to finish and I would very subjectively say the result was good enough to enjoy but maybe slightly under extracted (I don’t have a refractometer to check). The bed looked very good, as if the filter holder was designed for that!? Will try with a kalita wave once I get my hands on one. All in all fun experiment to try out and with a bit of dial in could end up great!
Get a ecm synchronika with line pressure pre infusion. Grind course and tamp very lightly and let it go with just the2 bars of pressure You get excellent coffee
old method always work well with new tooling. I use 4 cups American coffee maker (JERDON CM430WD), (the one can remove the plastic dripper, not the latest design) then replace with BlueBottle dripper with the best result after testing couple of drippers, the height from the BB dripper works perfectly for a cheap 4 persons American coffee maker from the shower head, the ration of 40g of coffee for 4 cups sizes to be final (on/off 600g) By the way, I tested with light, medium roasted, they are lack of acidic but very creamy, tons of flavors and very long finish. give it a try if you will.
Thoughts: I think the selling point of the Rao decent pourover is the shower screen, which will sort of "spray" the water into the coffee bed as opposed to "dripping" it in, like in this video and with the melodrip. With the Decent's flow rate control and programming, you can control the flow rate precisely and therefore replicate the exact same agitation with every brew, as opposed to guessing with a kettle. With this application (with the Linea Mini and a normal-ish shower screen) you don't get the same agitation or flow control. I'm not a huge fan of the melodrip or low agitation pourovers since I think the extraction isn't quite as even, but clearly you were still able to get high extraction. I think the agitation is key to getting high extraction from the V60. Kettles with single streams I believe are still better for well-practiced commercial baristas and home users.
I definitely think that agitation and a larger bed of coffee is key for V60’s success. Which makes it a bad option for this method. I do think replication and consistency is key. So in a cafe environment having a person do the pour overs means there will always be variations. So this method at the very least will be more consistent than a hand brew, regardless of having the special programming. But in the end the beauty is the tastebuds of the beholder and I think this may not be for everyone. But it’s a solid way to go on a rush or just for the fun of it at home.
I get quite consistent and good pour overs with the Kalita Wave 155 using the Lelit Biancas pedal. I often use this when I'm in a hurry in the mornings, but prefer to do all manual for the zen moment.
You should aim for a higher extraction % , since your agitation is softer and our grounds are finer which should lead to a more consistent grind size. I would try to be around 21% - 22%
Maybe you can try the decent pour over filter basket despite not using and profiles water flow? I think it mainly changes the pressure of the water when it’s hitting the coffee bed, so it may have a positive impact on your v60/wave extraction yields. Great content anyway, keep it up :)
I may try one at some point. This time around I wanted to see if it was even possible with a pretty basic set up that was designed purely for espresso.
@@Sprometheus First effort with a Colombian Bean was pretty damn good and very easy. I have a La Marzocco GB5 and managed to fit a 230ml cup with a small set of scales so could definitely use this at busy times in my coffee shop or when I feel like an easy filter coffee method. Thanks. :)
Really wish I could try this on my Appartamento, but it’s as if they designed the group-drip tray-chassis to prevent it. I guess I’ll stick with the kettle.
Firstly really enjoying the videos. I have the niche grinder. what would u say a good number is to dial in for a normal pour over method. I've found the markings that the niche have are too fine. Thanks in advance.
Alternative solution to get more clearance, get a stand for your Linea Mini. The stand needs to be a shape which doesn't block the drip tray section. Lol.
@@Sprometheus a bit convoluted. But once you have the drip tray removed, put the machine on a stand which also provides clearance where the drip tray goes. Essentially you're increasing the height of the machine while leaving the space under your group head clear so you can still put the V60 on your counter top. It's a complicated solution to a non existent problem. Just use the clever dripper lol.
I think the efficacy of the decent basket "jet" approach (they sell it, it's a standard commercial 58mm fit, suprised you didn't include it!) and the impact of temerature stability most machines will encounter are two big caveats to anyone trying this at home.
I considered trying it, but the biggest reason is clearance. Add a portafilter into this mix on most machines and you’re out of luck. That inch or two of space makes the difference. I do think single boiler machines will struggle to keep up temp wise. But a dual boiler brewed in phases that are 20-30 seconds apart will generally keep you in range.
I see that third wave coffee has re-invented the automatic drip coffee brewer. inb4 someone claims that this method produces a more even extraction than old style automatic drip coffee brewers, many old drip coffee brewers did--and still do--have wide shower screens producing similar drip patterns as the mellow dripper.
Very cool idea! Don't think it would work well for me since my gaggia classic (and other low end home machines) has thermal stability issues to begin with (just another reason to upgrade haha) Also, unless you have your machine on a smart on-off timer or just leave it on all day, heating a kettle of water takes less time than warming your machine. Could definitely be more useful in a cafe though!
Very cool. I would think that the 7g recipe would be very limiting though, as you would need to ultimately grind very fine to make up for the shallow bed depth, probably fine enough to induce channeling. How did you find the temperature stability to hold up while pulling that much water through the group?
Brian Hong surprisingly I felt like I didn’t need to grind much finer than a standard pour over. I felt like the V60 was as fine as it could go before it would start to cause issues. But the Clever was pretty coarse, and the Kalita was around 40 on my Niche which is in the neighborhood of my standard pour over grind. The temp seemed to hold pretty steady using bursts of water. If I pulled it all in one go I would notice a drop in temp and extraction. But not a ton. The Kalita came out to a 1.50% TDS so it was still in the mid 20% extraction and just a bit less hot.
This is interesting although I can't imagine many people sharing your predicament of having easier access to an espresso machine with a quality shower screen than a pour over kettle 😂
michalis9 haha yeah I can see that. I feel like many people with espresso machine already find themselves in a position like mine. But I do think this could really help cafes as well.
I currently have a Barista Express in my coffee corner, and only 2 outlets nearby. If I ever upgrade machines and get a stand-alone grinder(the dream), then this idea would be very helpful. If nothing else, it was a fun video that's an outside the box idea.
Unrelated to the topic but kinda related, how did you find the IMS shower head? Did it effect the taste of the espresso? Is it something you’d recommend?
I really enjoyed the technique and spent the evening trying to replicate it. Linea Mini with IMS screen, Niche Zero, Kalita 155 dripper. First try 12.4% extraction. (100 gm pour). Niche at around 43. Upped the dose to 9gm. Still low and drew down in 45 seconds. Kept making the grind finer. Not much better. Finally got down to my espresso grind (7 on the Niche). Just about the same result. Quick drawdown. 14.2% extraction. Tried different coffee that I roasted 4 days ago. Still thin with low extraction. Cannot figure what I’m doing wrong. Any thoughts?
If you're using a kalita wave, I wouldn't use any less than 12-13g of coffee because of the low bed depth that results from low doses. Makes for inconsistencies in the brew
Definitely giving it a try. I also use a Niche and wondered what you ground at for the test? I know beans differ, but if you were grinding on say no.8 for espresso, what would you grind at for this test? Cheers
Well it sounds like our grinders have burrs that are aligned differently, I grind on 16 for espresso generally. In this test I ground around 40 for the Kalita and V60. So for you that would be around 32.
@@Sprometheus 10 for espresso! If I grind at that for espresso it takes about 14-15s from pump on for 16g in 35g out. Thats including about 8s for pre infusion. On some of my beans I have to grind at no. 5. My burrs must be different to a lot of peoples Niche as it seems a lot grind upwards of 12. When I got the grinder I think I set it on 15 or so and.....whoosh it was like a tap. I've re calibrated a couple of times but with the same results.
This was wicked! Good to see the Kalita made the cut love that brewer. Do you find 40 grind size too fine on the niche? For my pourovers I'm near the middle of the lid!
Azza I’m definitely a Kalita believer after this. For me 40 runs about right. But it all depends on hour burr alignment and everyone’s appears to be different from the factory, and especially after cleaning.
@@Sprometheus ok nice, I will do. if it taste good, do I just put the amount of coffee I want on the same setting on the grinder? I usually do12.5g so, I'll just dump that in on the same grind size
I’m interested in tds and brewing methods. Could you do a video comparing brewing methods and tds? Are some brewing methods more efficient at producing more coffee per gram of grounds? I doubt it would save much money for consumers but for a cafe that’s an important question to answer.
Dilmurod Avalbaev thank you! And the power strip will give me more outlets, but the underlying issue is lack of power. I can’t actually charge my kettle while my machine is on without blowing the breaker.
I still don’t know where I stand on bed depth. I’ve brewed 7g V60s before at the end of the bag and they were just as tasty on a similar grind setting as a more typical dose 🤷🏻♂️
I kinda feel dumb for never having thought about this... But it's definitely an interesting idea. I have a v60, so I'll give it a shot. Maybe later on I'll get a kalita and give that a shot too. Btw, what app is that, that you were using for the ratios? Appreciate it like always 🤙🏼
I'm curious if using something like a La Pavoni or Flair is feasible for this approach. I guess "NO" for the Flair due to small water chamber. Maybe for the La Pavoni? A complicating factor is that these have smaller portafilters, so water dispersion is more narrow. Asking bc I have a Flair and Pavoni :)
I think it might work if you don't put the piston plunger in and just pour the water into the group head. I guess at that point it becomes a more expensive ez dripper . I might try it on mine. Edit: water seems to all converge into a single stream at the group head. It doesn't seem to work very well.
Hey Man I think you measured BRIX instead of TDS at 4:22. From what I know and I do use the ATAGO pocket you have to hold down the start after the first measurement for it to show TDS. Am I wrong?
Did that 27% EY really taste good? I have tried higher extraction recipes and only had a few cups taste good at around 23%. My set up is a Fellow Stagg electric kettle, MellowDrip, Niche Zero, and a Kruve shifter to remove fines smaller than 250 um. My dripped of choice at the moment is an Origami M with Kalita 185 filters.
I enjoyed it. It was definitely dense, and didn’t have the clarity of say a 22-24% extraction. But it was still a great cup overall. It wouldn’t be what I’d shoot for all the time, but I was definitely curious to see if this method would produce good extraction results, especially after what I got from the V60.
@@Sprometheus Its interesting which cheap coffee machine have this function like Gaggia or Rancilio. Or maybe it's possible to do it with help of PID for this machines,)
Most people : Drinking pour over because they can't afford the initial cost of proper espresso equipment Espresso equipment owners : No hate tho, this does seem kind of interesting.
Why no one absolutely no one uses Kalita 102...I dropped the v60 too cause all of the issues in the video. Btw I use 7.5g of coffee 125g of water for 100g of final product.
Nice video, but 4min, not too fine for only 7gr of coffee, not too bitterness on your coffee ? For a Café can be nice but you remove the customer experience, but a nice way to introduce Pour over to regular Café or Restaurant
I found it to he pretty tasty, and no over extraction taste. That time is mainly due to waiting between each phase of water. If you add all the water at once you will get it to run a bit closer to 3:30 but a bit less extraction.
Tony Lawlor to each their own, I find this easier and faster. Also, most if not all hot water taps on espresso machines is water pulled from the steam boiler that is full of minerals and tastes funky.
Never been a fan of the long black. Similar to an americano and leans heavy on the bitter scale. Plus, where’s the fun in that? Coffee should be experimental.
Your channel and James Hoffman's are my go-to to learn more about espresso.👍☕
Thank you my friend! I appreciate that.
"The brew finished in about 4:20"
*Nice.*
Kaysauce haha I was going to put a meme in there but just couldn’t find the right one.
Noice
The James Hoffman cameo- great vid!
Dat Dood haha thanks my friend! I appreciate your support!
Hnrlgv
I'll definitely try this! I have seen Scott's video as well and dismissed it as being specific to the decent. Thanks for the suggestion!
Nino Milani for sure! I did the same, but the more I thought about it the more it seemed to make sense for any espresso machine.
I have tried all kinds of coffee makers, to date a percolator has made the best and hottest cup of coffee, I found the coffee bean is what I Have found to tingle my taste buds, I hate already ground coffee, I order the bean as you do and grind to my specific liking. My pot takes about three minutes and I let it sit an extra 1, I have tried many types of coffees, I am always sampling different mixtures different company’s. It amazes me the variety of coffee that is grown on our planet. I might try your method of brewing just to see if there is a difference. I tried a French press method of brewing, needless to say I feel it was a waste of money. I am a diehard coffee lover so I am always looking for that perfect taste. I enjoyed your video, it was very informative because I’ve never thought of brewing coffee that way.
I'm splitting my sides laughing at the "James Hoffman" make over. Admit it Sp-man, you're just jealous of his hair! Another great video, fascinating result.
Great video! I would add some personal thoughts, the biggest drawback that i see by doing this is the actual water coming from the espresso machine which is altered by the actual boiler (it is staying there for some time) - a good test would be taste the water coming out of the Linea vs the input water and mark the differences. Also, the water that we use to fill our espresso boiler is usually one with lower Ca/Mg to avoid scale while in the brew methods we can use a higher Mg water to improve extraction without affecting too much the kettle. If water was not an issue and there could be a profile restriction valve on the machine + something like the melodrip then i think it would have been fine !
Have you ever looked at “coffee shots” or also known as “caffe crema”? Would be interesting to learn more about it and see what recipe you come up with. There’s not a ton of info out there but essentially it’s making a pour over/brewed coffee using your portafilter and grinding coarser so you can extract a longer cup. Cat & Cloud uses this method for all of their “brewed” coffees at their cafe’s and have a machine (I believe a strada) dialed back to 3bar specifically for this.
Yes! I have had these. I think they call it coffee by the cup at Cat & Cloud. I haven’t done it myself. But I may give it a go. My concern with those is sediment and fines making its way into the cup and leaving me with something that essentially tastes like a French Press. But I will give a go and see what I can come up with. I did think about that as I was producing this video.
I know it may be a bit different as it uses a pressure profile but whole latte love did a video about this aswell
The Real Sprometheus excited to see what you come up with man!
Thanks for the oblivion meme made my day. Great vid
Haha thanks Nick, gotta drop in the solid memes when I can.
I think this is an interesting video, but I'm left with questions!
1. You'd need to control the temperature of the water. A good pouring kettle is temperature controlled, and even a few changes in degrees can make a big difference to the outcome of the pourover. Espresso machines have very high temperature settings, and lower end models that you'd find in your typical home kitchen wouldn't have temperature control at all. He's obviously using a pretty expensive high end home machine with the Linea Mini, but still.
2. You need to control flow rate. The time of the brew will control the extraction. Once again not a feature in most domestic espresso machines.
3. If you do have a fancy espresso machine that can control these two variables, then you typically need to be prewarming your machine for quite a lot of time. It would still be a lot faster to just use a typical temperature controlled pouring kettle.
I think it's a cool idea, and I can understand that using something like machine that Rao is behind which allows the tuning of everything makes sense. But I don't think it's really that practical for the average home barista.
Am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing one more point. In some fancy machines with dual boiler the brew boiler is not designed to output the amount of water to brew filter coffee at once.
Very intelligently executed! Will surely give this a try at my cafe. I really appreciate your research and efforts bringing this method out!
Thank you, I’d love to hear how it works in your cafe.
Really like this type of hack videos and will definitely give it a try ! Might also be very limited by group the clearance though..
Le French Roast thanks! Would love to hear your thoughts after giving it a go!
The Real Sprometheus Turns out the only set up I had at hand that I could fit under my group is an ikea glass and a moccamaster cup-one filter holder. Used 7.5g coffee and 120g water. Took about 3:30 from start to finish and I would very subjectively say the result was good enough to enjoy but maybe slightly under extracted (I don’t have a refractometer to check). The bed looked very good, as if the filter holder was designed for that!?
Will try with a kalita wave once I get my hands on one.
All in all fun experiment to try out and with a bit of dial in could end up great!
Get a ecm synchronika with line pressure pre infusion.
Grind course and tamp very lightly and let it go with just the2 bars of pressure
You get excellent coffee
What ratio of coffee to water are you using for this? And how many grams input?
starts at 1:25
old method always work well with new tooling.
I use 4 cups American coffee maker (JERDON CM430WD), (the one can remove the plastic dripper, not the latest design) then replace with BlueBottle dripper with the best result after testing couple of drippers, the height from the BB dripper works perfectly for a cheap 4 persons American coffee maker from the shower head, the ration of 40g of coffee for 4 cups sizes to be final (on/off 600g) By the way, I tested with light, medium roasted, they are lack of acidic but very creamy, tons of flavors and very long finish. give it a try if you will.
definitely will try this one, its a good solution cafe with small space; just to be able to safe a little more space.
Absolutely! Definitely a space and time saving technique.
Thoughts:
I think the selling point of the Rao decent pourover is the shower screen, which will sort of "spray" the water into the coffee bed as opposed to "dripping" it in, like in this video and with the melodrip. With the Decent's flow rate control and programming, you can control the flow rate precisely and therefore replicate the exact same agitation with every brew, as opposed to guessing with a kettle. With this application (with the Linea Mini and a normal-ish shower screen) you don't get the same agitation or flow control. I'm not a huge fan of the melodrip or low agitation pourovers since I think the extraction isn't quite as even, but clearly you were still able to get high extraction. I think the agitation is key to getting high extraction from the V60. Kettles with single streams I believe are still better for well-practiced commercial baristas and home users.
I definitely think that agitation and a larger bed of coffee is key for V60’s success. Which makes it a bad option for this method.
I do think replication and consistency is key. So in a cafe environment having a person do the pour overs means there will always be variations. So this method at the very least will be more consistent than a hand brew, regardless of having the special programming.
But in the end the beauty is the tastebuds of the beholder and I think this may not be for everyone. But it’s a solid way to go on a rush or just for the fun of it at home.
I get quite consistent and good pour overs with the Kalita Wave 155 using the Lelit Biancas pedal. I often use this when I'm in a hurry in the mornings, but prefer to do all manual for the zen moment.
There is definitely no replacement for that zen moment, that’s for sure!
Awesome video!
Can you just tell me what was the modification you did to the espresso machine for the kalita brewer?
You should aim for a higher extraction % , since your agitation is softer and our grounds are finer which should lead to a more consistent grind size. I would try to be around 21% - 22%
3:50 IM DIYNG OF LAUGHTER
Franco Pettine nothing better than a coffee and a good laugh.
@jimseven did you see this?
Maybe you can try the decent pour over filter basket despite not using and profiles water flow? I think it mainly changes the pressure of the water when it’s hitting the coffee bed, so it may have a positive impact on your v60/wave extraction yields.
Great content anyway, keep it up :)
I may try one at some point. This time around I wanted to see if it was even possible with a pretty basic set up that was designed purely for espresso.
If you did not notice you are sprinkling water in a Melodrip fashion! So minimizing particle discharge and giving more clarity to the cup!
I’ve a feeling my Kalita Wave may be coming into work with me soon; excited to give this a try....
Yes! Let me know how it comes out!
@@Sprometheus I certainly will. I have some great Ethiopian Coffee and a Colombian that I want to fiddle about with so this will be fun.
@@Sprometheus First effort with a Colombian Bean was pretty damn good and very easy. I have a La Marzocco GB5 and managed to fit a 230ml cup with a small set of scales so could definitely use this at busy times in my coffee shop or when I feel like an easy filter coffee method. Thanks. :)
Really wish I could try this on my Appartamento, but it’s as if they designed the group-drip tray-chassis to prevent it. I guess I’ll stick with the kettle.
Thanks for the introduction of James Hoffman
Firstly really enjoying the videos. I have the niche grinder. what would u say a good number is to dial in for a normal pour over method. I've found the markings that the niche have are too fine. Thanks in advance.
It really depends on your grinders burr alignment. It may very quite a bit I’ve found. For me I grind most pour overs between 40-45.
So this technique can be done only with dual boiler machines with giant brew boiler or machines like Decent with super accurate temperature control.
You could include a Rok W1 in the comparison, its much lower profile than the V60 should allow it to fit under the group without modifications.
I will look into that. This time around I figured I’d use the three most common drippers I see floating around.
Alternative solution to get more clearance, get a stand for your Linea Mini. The stand needs to be a shape which doesn't block the drip tray section. Lol.
Hmm, having a hard time visualizing that.
@@Sprometheus a bit convoluted. But once you have the drip tray removed, put the machine on a stand which also provides clearance where the drip tray goes.
Essentially you're increasing the height of the machine while leaving the space under your group head clear so you can still put the V60 on your counter top. It's a complicated solution to a non existent problem. Just use the clever dripper lol.
Ricky Ng haha I get you. I’m all about that Kalita life now! But the Clever is kind of an interesting piece. I will be doing more with that one soon.
Why have I not thought to remove my drip tray for more clearance? I did it before with a Keurig when I used taller mugs.
I'm working tomorrow, I'll give it a try
Let me know how it goes!
Are there no power boards or double adapters in America?
Me playing God of war on my PS 4
UA-cam: Prometheus teaching me to make coffee
this looks interesting! sorry if this is a stupid question, but do you need to change the shower screen back to an espresso specific one afterwards?
Nope. That screen is actually intended for espresso, just found it to be a bit better at spreading the water out.
I think the efficacy of the decent basket "jet" approach (they sell it, it's a standard commercial 58mm fit, suprised you didn't include it!) and the impact of temerature stability most machines will encounter are two big caveats to anyone trying this at home.
I considered trying it, but the biggest reason is clearance. Add a portafilter into this mix on most machines and you’re out of luck. That inch or two of space makes the difference.
I do think single boiler machines will struggle to keep up temp wise. But a dual boiler brewed in phases that are 20-30 seconds apart will generally keep you in range.
Why do you keep the warning sticker on the group head? Was first thing that I removed when I got my LMLM
I see that third wave coffee has re-invented the automatic drip coffee brewer. inb4 someone claims that this method produces a more even extraction than old style automatic drip coffee brewers, many old drip coffee brewers did--and still do--have wide shower screens producing similar drip patterns as the mellow dripper.
Nice man I love the new content
Thank you my friend!
Very cool idea! Don't think it would work well for me since my gaggia classic (and other low end home machines) has thermal stability issues to begin with (just another reason to upgrade haha) Also, unless you have your machine on a smart on-off timer or just leave it on all day, heating a kettle of water takes less time than warming your machine. Could definitely be more useful in a cafe though!
Kevin Goslen yeah I can imagine thermal stability for single boiler machines could definitely cause some issues with this.
Very cool. I would think that the 7g recipe would be very limiting though, as you would need to ultimately grind very fine to make up for the shallow bed depth, probably fine enough to induce channeling. How did you find the temperature stability to hold up while pulling that much water through the group?
Brian Hong surprisingly I felt like I didn’t need to grind much finer than a standard pour over. I felt like the V60 was as fine as it could go before it would start to cause issues. But the Clever was pretty coarse, and the Kalita was around 40 on my Niche which is in the neighborhood of my standard pour over grind.
The temp seemed to hold pretty steady using bursts of water. If I pulled it all in one go I would notice a drop in temp and extraction. But not a ton. The Kalita came out to a 1.50% TDS so it was still in the mid 20% extraction and just a bit less hot.
@@Sprometheus thank you for the thoughtful reply! Cheers from a fan :)
This is interesting although I can't imagine many people sharing your predicament of having easier access to an espresso machine with a quality shower screen than a pour over kettle 😂
michalis9 haha yeah I can see that. I feel like many people with espresso machine already find themselves in a position like mine. But I do think this could really help cafes as well.
I currently have a Barista Express in my coffee corner, and only 2 outlets nearby. If I ever upgrade machines and get a stand-alone grinder(the dream), then this idea would be very helpful.
If nothing else, it was a fun video that's an outside the box idea.
This is great! Now make a pour over make an espresso (JK know it's impossible)
Just gotta put your mind to that one I guess
Unrelated to the topic but kinda related, how did you find the IMS shower head? Did it effect the taste of the espresso? Is it something you’d recommend?
How do you measure the extraction?
I really enjoyed the technique and spent the evening trying to replicate it.
Linea Mini with IMS screen, Niche Zero, Kalita 155 dripper.
First try 12.4% extraction. (100 gm pour). Niche at around 43.
Upped the dose to 9gm. Still low and drew down in 45 seconds.
Kept making the grind finer. Not much better. Finally got down to my espresso grind (7 on the Niche). Just about the same result. Quick drawdown. 14.2% extraction.
Tried different coffee that I roasted 4 days ago. Still thin with low extraction.
Cannot figure what I’m doing wrong. Any thoughts?
If you're using a kalita wave, I wouldn't use any less than 12-13g of coffee because of the low bed depth that results from low doses. Makes for inconsistencies in the brew
Definitely giving it a try. I also use a Niche and wondered what you ground at for the test? I know beans differ, but if you were grinding on say no.8 for espresso, what would you grind at for this test? Cheers
Well it sounds like our grinders have burrs that are aligned differently, I grind on 16 for espresso generally. In this test I ground around 40 for the Kalita and V60. So for you that would be around 32.
@@Sprometheus 10 for espresso! If I grind at that for espresso it takes about 14-15s from pump on for 16g in 35g out. Thats including about 8s for pre infusion. On some of my beans I have to grind at no. 5.
My burrs must be different to a lot of peoples Niche as it seems a lot grind upwards of 12. When I got the grinder I think I set it on 15 or so and.....whoosh it was like a tap. I've re calibrated a couple of times but with the same results.
This was wicked! Good to see the Kalita made the cut love that brewer. Do you find 40 grind size too fine on the niche? For my pourovers I'm near the middle of the lid!
Azza I’m definitely a Kalita believer after this. For me 40 runs about right. But it all depends on hour burr alignment and everyone’s appears to be different from the factory, and especially after cleaning.
@@Sprometheus interesting, interesting thanks might try around the 40 mark
Azza for sure. Give it a go and adjust from there. The beauty of this is 7g isn’t a huge amount of coffee if it doesn’t turn out.
@@Sprometheus ok nice, I will do. if it taste good, do I just put the amount of coffee I want on the same setting on the grinder? I usually do12.5g so, I'll just dump that in on the same grind size
Nice cup mann🤩 where did you get that?
Thank you, it’s a notNeutral Lino
2:51 what's this app here called?
+1 for this app inquiry! There's a lot online, but the UI on the one you used was clean. Most also only let you choose one Variable.
That is the Acaia Coffee app.
Interesting stuff, Did you switch back, or keep the IMS shower head for your normal shots after? Much difference for pulling shots?
I kept the IMS screen. Definitely working on a comparison video of the two screens in the future.
@@Sprometheus Awesome to hear, look forward to it
I’m interested in tds and brewing methods. Could you do a video comparing brewing methods and tds? Are some brewing methods more efficient at producing more coffee per gram of grounds? I doubt it would save much money for consumers but for a cafe that’s an important question to answer.
Absolutely. Something like that is on my radar for sure.
Great stuff as always, thanks! But if I were you, I would probably get a power strip for my kettle and be done with it :)
Dilmurod Avalbaev thank you! And the power strip will give me more outlets, but the underlying issue is lack of power. I can’t actually charge my kettle while my machine is on without blowing the breaker.
Why electric kettle? Don't you have a stove?
Curious what if you tried the hario switch
I still don’t know where I stand on bed depth. I’ve brewed 7g V60s before at the end of the bag and they were just as tasty on a similar grind setting as a more typical dose 🤷🏻♂️
Very exciting!
MrMontyharr thank you! Enjoy
I kinda feel dumb for never having thought about this... But it's definitely an interesting idea. I have a v60, so I'll give it a shot. Maybe later on I'll get a kalita and give that a shot too. Btw, what app is that, that you were using for the ratios? Appreciate it like always 🤙🏼
Joey Gutierrez I do too. It seems so obvious! Let me know how it goes with the V60 that one gave me issues. The app is the Acaia Coffee application.
I'm curious if using something like a La Pavoni or Flair is feasible for this approach. I guess "NO" for the Flair due to small water chamber. Maybe for the La Pavoni? A complicating factor is that these have smaller portafilters, so water dispersion is more narrow.
Asking bc I have a Flair and Pavoni :)
Taylor White is say it’s definitely doable on the La Pavoni but not the Flair. But only one way to find out!
I think it might work if you don't put the piston plunger in and just pour the water into the group head. I guess at that point it becomes a more expensive ez dripper . I might try it on mine.
Edit: water seems to all converge into a single stream at the group head. It doesn't seem to work very well.
Hey Man I think you measured BRIX instead of TDS at 4:22. From what I know and I do use the ATAGO pocket you have to hold down the start after the first measurement for it to show TDS. Am I wrong?
Atago makes multiple meters, this one is TDS only. It doesn’t have a BRIX function. But they all look pretty much the same.
@@Sprometheus My bad then, thanks for the quick reply!
Did that 27% EY really taste good? I have tried higher extraction recipes and only had a few cups taste good at around 23%. My set up is a Fellow Stagg electric kettle, MellowDrip, Niche Zero, and a Kruve shifter to remove fines smaller than 250 um. My dripped of choice at the moment is an Origami M with Kalita 185 filters.
I enjoyed it. It was definitely dense, and didn’t have the clarity of say a 22-24% extraction. But it was still a great cup overall. It wouldn’t be what I’d shoot for all the time, but I was definitely curious to see if this method would produce good extraction results, especially after what I got from the V60.
Dang. You are going deeeep into the coffee nerd-zone. Love it. I would love to have a Niche. Hopefully someday.
Isn't this basically what a high-end drip coffee maker would do? I'm a bit confused as to why this is so special.
Dane Magruder essentially yes, but why have a drip maker when you could have an espresso machine and that does both?
@@Sprometheus preach
Wow, thats nice hack!
VIPavel thanks, definitely thought it was worth sharing!
@@Sprometheus Its interesting which cheap coffee machine have this function like Gaggia or Rancilio. Or maybe it's possible to do it with help of PID for this machines,)
how about use december drip? and have multi test from 1 to 3 step hole?
lewy yonathan interesting. I haven’t tried that one, I’ll have to pick it up.
What app are you using at 2:55 ?
Finished at 4:20. Of course it did. 😎
Where do I get this type of the shower screen for the E61 group?
I picked up mine on Amazon. They appeared to have the screen for many different manufacturers. I’m sure they have ones for the E61
I don't even have access to coffee bean/grounds in my area. IDK why I'm watching this.
Argyl Infantado maybe for some second hand caffeination?
@@Sprometheus I'm settling down with instant coffee for now 😩
Argyl Infantado sounds like you need to start roasting your own!
Most people : Drinking pour over because they can't afford the initial cost of proper espresso equipment
Espresso equipment owners :
No hate tho, this does seem kind of interesting.
Why no one absolutely no one uses Kalita 102...I dropped the v60 too cause all of the issues in the video. Btw I use 7.5g of coffee 125g of water for 100g of final product.
Manuel Marzolla I actually just bought the Kalita for this video: before I only had it in cafes. But I will definitely toy with some other sizes.
To solve your plugs problem: just purchase a series of smartplugs, controlled by your smartphone, and plug them to a plug hub....
Groovy!
Is this the Kalita 155 or 185 ?
This is the 185
What is that app? The one with recipes and ratios
BsOnK1969 that is the Acaia Coffee application. It has a converter function that is super helpful.
What refractometer do you use?
I use the Atago Coffer Pal
Have you heard of power strips?
cristobal garza have you heard of blown breakers?
The Real Sprometheus They are so loud, I have, but there are power strips with safety switches, you know that, right?
Dude what's the name of that coffee ratio app?
Henry Prieto that is the converter function on the Acaia Coffee application. Super helpful if you’re as bad at math as I am.
Oh god, my Oblivion PTSD
Haha first person to mention that!
So... French press?
Nice video, but 4min, not too fine for only 7gr of coffee, not too bitterness on your coffee ? For a Café can be nice but you remove the customer experience, but a nice way to introduce Pour over to regular Café or Restaurant
I found it to he pretty tasty, and no over extraction taste. That time is mainly due to waiting between each phase of water. If you add all the water at once you will get it to run a bit closer to 3:30 but a bit less extraction.
I always wait the water finish to pour before add more, I use the Kasuya Method and I still finish in 3:30 with 20gr/300
What's the app‽
That’s the Acaia Coffee app’s converter function.
i use my espresso machine to make instant noodles at the bar
Goodness that makes so much sense 🤣
Have you tried wear them jammies in other videos? Might boost those views... 🤣
Grip Side maybe that’s the key, but in the summer it could be rough!
The Real Sprometheus looks like I’ll need to pick up a kalita wave and give this a shot. My wife loves it when I want new coffee toys
Come on, much easier to use a kettle. Why don't you use the linea's .hot water tap to fill your kettle if you are outlet shy.
Tony Lawlor to each their own, I find this easier and faster. Also, most if not all hot water taps on espresso machines is water pulled from the steam boiler that is full of minerals and tastes funky.
Firstest :) Always wanted to do that.
Haha congrats my friend!
Dude can’t you just make a long black ?
Never been a fan of the long black. Similar to an americano and leans heavy on the bitter scale. Plus, where’s the fun in that? Coffee should be experimental.
The Real Sprometheus well ok then - try a coffee shot with a aero press paper filter
It’s Scott “Ray-Oh”
Meh, Tomato-Tomat-“oh”.
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