I only ever run in carbon when it’s race day or if I need that edge during tough marathon pace workouts or tempo runs. My initial reason for that was that I’m a cheapskate and I want to extend the lifespan of those insanely expensive shoes as much as possible. I also had the strength from fighting, lifting weights and sprinting in my legs when I started running, and while I did notice that especially my shins had to do more work in the beginning, I never had any issues with carbon. Judging by what I’ve learned from this video, I unknowingly had the right approach to it. lol Highly appreciated content!
The best type of content is content that supports what we already know to be true! 😁 I wouldn’t say you’re a cheapskate. You’re just determined to get the most value out of your purchase. I’d say you’re being environmentally conscious more than anything else! ♻️🌳
I really appreciate your informed good sense on this topic. You blend some information from research with experience in a way that I find very helpful. As someone who has acquired a few discounted pairs of carbon-plated shoes, keeps a mix of shoes in my rotation, runs myself, and also coaches, I think the tenor of your advice is spot on. As you wisely say, always good to adjust slowly, keep things varied, and generally use the well-established principles of acclimation and ongoing self-evaluation of how things are going. I would also note that it may well be that many runners, when they sink big bucks into a pair of carbon-plated shoes, may inclined to overuse them since a) they feel exciting at first and b) they cost so much you might have passed up on filling out your shoe rotation with alternatives. I see this with young runners all the time....when they finally get mom and dad to spring for carbon-plated shoes (or use their local job to buy them for themselves), they often come to over-rely on them. Uh-oh...thus begins the navicular bone death syndrome (I thought that part was funny). Nice work, Matt.
Cheers, Thomas! I appreciate your comment and kind words! Yes, I can see how people can come to over rely on carbon shoes but I’ve also seen the opposite; because of the high cost, runners want to save them for their goal race day and so don’t practice in them! As with most things in life, a healthy balance is probably the right course of action! 😁
The first time i ran in the Vaporfly's I did some tempo/strides and injured my achilles where it meets my calf. Took a few months for that to go away. Totally my fault as I lacked the strength and form to properly run in those shoes. It's all good now though and I learned a valuable lesson about strength training for running and always be cautious of over-training
1) Best ‘o luck to you at Boston! 2) I use carbon plate shoes - Saucony Endorphin Pro v2 - only for race days (plus a few break-in runs for new shoes). I swap shoes regularly for daily training run, just keep my feet “on their toes”. So to speak. This has worked well for me so far. 3) My week? Peak week at 72 miles - a lot for an old feller. One trail run, just to keep it fun (plus hopefully some balance and climbing benefit). Will throttle back some this week, as I focus on rest and readiness for London.
Cheers, Ed! I'm sending that luck right back at 'cha for London! What's your goal? 72 miles is an impressive peak week! I'm with you on keeping your feet on their toes by mixing shoes! It sounds like a good way to go about this running lark, plus it lets us get lots of shoes! 🤷🏻♂😂
@@its_Matt_B_ Goal #1 is always to finish with a smile! I have a target of below 3:35; history suggests 3:45 is likely. (My opening half’s are stronger; mile 18 and on is where the kryptonite get unwrapped.) But still being a running newbie - albeit of advanced years - I am just ecstatic that I can run at all. Blessed!
I use carbon plated shoes only up to a half marathon. I have pain start to develop after the half marathon race where you really need that kick because those shorter distances require faster paces. For the marathon, it’s another story. The marathon is really about efficient running economy. I tend to use non-plated shoes. If your foot starts to hurt just a little past half marathon mark because of the carbon plated shoes then that would make you less economical because you now have an injury.
I love that you know yourself and your body so well that you know at which distance not to use carbon plated shoes. Do you have the same pain develop when you use nylon plated shoes?
I have used one nylon plated shoe before: Endorphin Speed 2. I like that shoe BUT the foam is too soft. I find my arches collapsing too much on that foam making it unstable. I prefer a little firmer foams for more inherent stability. I currently use the Asics Superblast for marathon training and for racing the marathon. That shoe is exceptional. It is not overly soft, bouncy, retains its integrity, and fast rebounding. I feel like I am wearing a plated shoe but with no plate. It takes care of your feet too after long miles.
I do 2/3rds of my runs and all my races in carbon plated shoes, but I use traditional race flats or low drop thin midsole Topo shoes 1-2 times weekly for easy short (4-5mile) days, or for a 1-2 mile cool down after a long run in carbon plated shoes. I also do eccentric calf strengthening and stand on a balance block regularly to be sure my foot muscles don't atrophy and lower extremity tendons are used through their range.
Answer to question. Run in both low and high carbon fiber plates: low were adizero Pros 24 stack, magic speeds. But high, too::Prime x, endorphin pro 2, adios pro. So have been able to mix it uo. Stilll working thru psoas
For the past few years I was running in the Nike Tempo Next, but recently bought the Nike Alphafly 1. Not a serious runner either. The Alphafly 1 is the best running shoe I've ever owned, but I wanted to test run my old Tempo's to feel the difference between the two. So going back to the Tempo Next shoes, I got a slight hyper-extended knee and felt sore in my front lower knee area (same leg). My conclusion, the Alphafly 1 limits the extension of the knee with its spring-coil effect and disburses the force from the ground up differently than a shoe without a carbon fiber plate. I went back to my Alphafly shoes and the problems went away. Alphafly's are a big "cheat code" for running, but you only live once & we should enjoy the cheats along with all the hard work we put in w/ our running.
Seems like an understandable conclusion about the limited extension. I agree 100% on the "cheat code" use! Use them and enjoy them when you get them! Cheers, Rebel!
🥱Absolutely came down to Sarasota specifically for a run! Pity we were only down for a couple of days! Will definitely make a point of scheduling a longer stay next time. Thanks again for an enjoyable run👍
🥱Hi Matt, I think plates do change the force distribution and can cause repetitive stress injury in areas where our feet are not strong enough. I had my Achiles tendon injury in a carbon plated shoe. Also had Plantar Fasciitis type injury in another. I think it is prudent to rotate shoes even among carbon plated shoes for a slightly different distribution of forces each time. Last week I did one training 10-mile run and two races, and the rest was bicycle, elliptical, rowing and strength training with Friday being a complete rest and travel day. The races I did, as I mentioned before, were Cherry Blossom 5k and Cherry Blossom 10 mile in Washington, DC. 5k was on a rainy day and 10 mile was on a cold and windy day. I did better than I expected of my situation (27:03 5k, 1:29:40 for 10-miles). So, I am happy with the results considering the injury I had and minimal running following it. Those placed roughly in top top 20% of my age group in both races. I ran 5k in Vaporfly 2 and 10 mile in Endorphin Pro 3. Stability of Pro 3 helped in the 10 miler. Oh yes, the experience of running through a channel of Cherry Blossom as part of the 10 mile race was priceless.
I’m with you on rotating shoes, even if we’re rotating carbon plated shoes. This morning I even opted for the Endo Speed 3 for my intervals! Epic racing this weekend! Clearly the Endo Pro 3 and Next% 2s are different, but which one do you prefer running in?
@@its_Matt_B_ I think I prefer running 5k/10k in VF2 and longer in EP3 between these two. If I had not got injured, I was going to run 5k in Takumi Sen 8 and 10 mile in VF2. VF2 is a bit more aggressive than EP3 but EP3 is more stable which I appreciate a bit more on longer races.
I run in Saucony Endorphin Pro 3s. I notice after running especially first thing in the morning when I get up the outsides of feet near the Peroneus tendon are stressed and sore it wears off through the day. I know it’s the shoes as I don’t get this issue in my XC shoes on trail. Been using the Saucony’s for about a year… interesting blog Thanks 🙏
This is interesting, and i'm sorry to hear you're dealing with it. Have you found the same issue with other plated shoes? Which XC shoes are you using? I'm hesitant to assign blame to the plate part of the shoe, rather than the whole shoe itself. Perhaps the Pro 3 just doesn't work for you or perhaps you feel best in a more flexible shoe!
This is the reason I switch up shoes almost every run. I almost never run in the same pair of shoes back to back and I have a specific shoe in mind for each run. Some carbon plated, some nylon plated and some without a plate.
Very interesting information. So I have always been a gym meathead head, per se. But I work in law enforcement, and at 51 years old now, about 4 years ago, I started running some sprints for my job. Then 2 years ago, I had a horrific leg injury. I was in a foot pursuit and jumped a water gap, and when I landed, I tore both middle quad muscles and my quad tendon away from the bone. So once rehab was over I decided to take up running but only 5k and interval training as fast pace 400 meter and 100 meter sprints. I recently tried the Saucony Elite and love this shoe, but I am not sure if this is more shoes than I need. It helped with my joint pain, it seemed, but that was just on the treadmill at the shoe store, and I ran a half-mile test run. Would this hurt to use this shoe for 5 days a week training in it?
@@realdeal1512 Ugh! That injury sounds horrific! So sorry you went through it. There are plenty of people that use carbon plated shoes for all their training. I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t use the Endo Elite for everything, especially because your overall volume isn’t going to be too high. Ultimately, your comfort when running is what matters. If the Endo Elite feel good to you, use them! 💫
🥱 Great video, Matt! I’ve had some success with plated shoes in HM races but have felt discomfort in my achilles at the same time. Been hesitant to try them in a marathon…maybe one day. I’m going with the Brooks Hyperion Max for Boston in 2 weeks and I think that will work out well for what I want to accomplish.
Hi matt,ive only started running in carbon plated shoes the last couple of years got two in my rotation the deviate nitro elite 2 and nitro elite v1 both great shoes but not too aggressive with the plate..they do give you that little kick when you pick u the pace!interesting study👍
Thanks so much, Tina! There is so much stuff I want to do when I grow up, and I’m with you that a sports scientist is one of them! Yeah, under-use and over-use injuries are fascinating and makes me wonder how big is the space in between them? 🤔
Nike Vaporfly 1; every time I run in these, only for short distances, I always get lower back pain the day after. They are fast and I feel fine during the run, but it's happened every time. I feel that the plate in some of these shoes is so stiff it maybe causes an unnatural gait.
🤔 That's interesting and also a shame. I don't know what the mechanics are of the shoes causing your back pain but they sure are stiff! Have you tried any other plated shoes and if so, did you experience anything similar?
I am 67 years old, 6'2" tall, and weigh 195 lbs. Lately I have been having a calf injury which I think is related to super shoes. One question I have is runner weight versus foam density of the shoes and possible antagonistic muscle strain caused by too soft foam. I am wondering if my trail leg starts to come forward when the heel is still dropping down into the foam because my weight is too heavy to get the proper rebound from the midsole. Not sure? Also the super shoes have very little front to back flexibility so that could put more strain on the calf. At this point I have gone back to more normal shoes with a higher heel to toe drop and at least some flex in the forefoot. I ran in Nike carbon super shoes for a number of years with no issues but got a calf strain pretty quickly using Asics Superblast shoes. Until very recently I ran trails in Hoka Tecton X 2 shoes with zero issues but they seem firmer foam. Could be that I am just old and too heavy now. Wondering if super shoes are especially bad for older runners. Overall I have run regularly since 1979 and over 50,000 miles with relatively few injuries.
I'm not a scientist and have no formal training in the field of training or biomechanics, but I doubt you are too old or heavy to run. It seems to be that particular shoe that caused (or exacerbated) and injury and you're having difficulty healing from it. It's good you've gone back to more traditional shoes to see how they work for you! Are you seeing any improvement?
I just bought the Adios Pro 3 that has carbon rods going under the metatarsals I wonder if that is a more natural transition from non-plated shoes. Taking them out on 26 km tomorrow!
My long run shoe is the saucony speed 2, marathon is in 7 weeks so I decided to start using my race shoe, saucony pro 2 (almost the same as the speed 2 but with a plate), first tried a 10k with it, felt great, next I tried a 25k, pain started at 15k and by 20k it got severe, quit at 23k, it was a severe upper calf pain which transformed into a hammering of the top shin (inside) and bottom ankle pain. This was almost a week ago and it still hurts, my chance to start at that marathon is slim, mentally I kind of gave up on it already. Incredibly disappointed, wish I just used my speed 2 as before.
I 100% get your disappointment but don’t give up yet. Take another week off and reassess. Personally, I could not run a marathon in the Pro 2; they’re just too firm. Check out the Pro 3 (there are some good sales out there). They are much softer and far more conducive to running the marathon distance. I’ve run several marathons in my Pro 3s and love them.
@@its_Matt_B_ I never give up even if it depresses me... I didn't find anything extra about the pro 2 compared to the speed 2, slightly firmer and slightly more forward push but in essence it felt the same but somehow it pulled the calf muscle way too much, I couldn't walk properly for 2 days, couldn't go down the stairs for 3days. Yesterday I tried a short run but it still aches. Will try another short run tomorrow and see if it improved anything.
I'd recommend giving your injury a little longer time to heal! You won't loose any fitness if you wait a few extra days! If you keep "testing" it you could inadvertently prolong the healing time! Good luck! @@OZSA87
the injury happened on monday morning, I did a short test run (30min) on saturday evening, I did 2 short (30min) cycling friday and sunday (tonight), when would you go for another test run?@@its_Matt_B_
You raise some interesting points. I am a big fan of the Arthur Lydiard method of running, he states that a good running shoe should move with the foot, and that it should be like slipper. If you strapped two boards to the bottom of your feet you struggle to walk let alone run. He also states that there is a lot of power in ankle flexing and the arch of the foot and that is why sprinters generally have high archers. Arthur always prescribed hill work for his runners, uphill bounding, springing, fast uphill running etc for this reason. Every shoe I buy I make sure that the heel of the shoe can touch the toe, and yes I run in max cushion shoes, Hoka clifton 9 and kinvara 14 at the present. I also use the altra olympus series as well. Max cushion allow lessor impact and allow us to run more, howevery we need to strengthen our tenons and ligaments (under developed) which take longer than muscles (Months not weeks) and this is why lower stack, firmer shoes, Kinvara 13, altra escalante, saucony sinister etc help strengthen them on tempo and track work outs. As you said "ease in to it", this is why shoe rotation and quiver is important. Great topic....🥇
Lydiard’s method holds a lot of water. As I was reading you comment I was excited to recommend the Clifton 9 and Kinvara 14 then, in the next breath, you said you have them! 🤣 They’re both fantastic shoes!
@@its_Matt_B_ Have been running in clifton since Version 1. Transition from the kinvara to the clifton as I needed more foam under foot for distance greater that half marathon. Stopped at version 5 as I felt the clifton lost the whole design concept and picked up the Rincon which is basicly what the clifton 1 to 3 was. 3 being my favorite I went through 5 pairs. After running in the NB More v4 and seeing the additional stack in the clifton 9 I gave the Clifton another go and was very happy with the result. After running a half marathon distance in the kinvara 14 on sunday I'm struggling to choose between the kinvara 14 and the clifton 9 for my runs as they are simular but different.
🫢🥱 Dying bones aside, it would seem quite logical that if you don’t use something it fades away or gets weaker and when it comes to muscles, tendons and even ligaments that will manifest in less movement, strength and efficiency. The complete opposite of the ‘training effect’ that we want. Use it or lose it Matthew🙄 I love carbon in all of its forms, I do go back to softer more compliant shoes for most of my training, the psychological effect alone of putting on one of my pairs of faster shoes for fast training or a race all adds to the experience.
I totally agree with you about the psychological effet of putting on fast shoes! It just makes you feel like you can do more! Yes, the whole "use it or lose it" thing does indeed seem logical, but it's very difficult to make a 8-10 minute video saying that one phrase. I have to stretch it out to make it work for me. Brevity is not one of my strengths!🤣
Awesome video. I've tried on a carbon-plated shoe before (because they're usually quite expensive and for me, unnecessary) but still interesting to learn about. I never thought about underuse injury but that is a really good point. Do you think that this applies to switching from a stability shoe to a neutral shoe? For my week of running: I finished my training for my peak 5k race and absolutely smashed it at my race. I was going for a PB (PB was 26:00) and I got an official time of 25:43. I'm really happy with my performance. I'm taking a sort of down week this week to prepare for summer base training.
Huge congratulations on your PB! Brilliant racing! 💪🏽 I don’t think the same thing would Apple when switching between a stability and neutral shoe. The way I understood it was the plate made the shoe so rigid and that’s what led to an increased risk of injury.
I have a carbon plated pair of shoes but have not used them yet. Carbon plated shoes makes you prone to foot stress fractures. Also just to get used to it you have to use them at least weekly. For most recreational runners its a no go.
@@its_Matt_B_ i have hoka rocket x. I prefer some racing flats for real speedwork (ie 1500m pace), for 3-5k pace or slower any daily trainers is fine for me.
Thanks for the video im concerned about always having ankle pain after running in Boson 11 or Deviate Nitro 2. I think it re exposés my bad ankle re awake
Ugh! Sorry to hear it! It's probably best to stop running in both those shoes. I can't say if it's the plate that's causing the ankle pain, but it's worth experimenting with other shoes to see what works for you. Good luck!
Hi I have used carbon plated shoes For my 150m×2 repetation.I haven't faced any discomfort.wheather it may cause any injury when i use it for 400m allout race. Using it for 400m allout race
LMK how they workout in your 400m race! I don’t expect anything negative at that distance! The plate fatigue I can feel sometimes usually comes after running in them for a couple hours!
I only have had Achilles pain here and there from carbon plated shoes, maybe occasionally some calf pain depending on the shoes. I have made it a point to run more without plates since I have a lot of plated shoes
@@its_Matt_B_ the endorphin pro 3 primarily. But it’s not every time and it’s not bad enough to make me stop running in them. Deviate nitro 2 does it from time to time as well. It’s only ever a sore Achilles though and nothing more than that
@@robertarmero6320 I wonder if the drop has anything to do with it. Usually a low drop puts more impact force on the Achilles and calves, but both the DNE2 and EP3 have 8mm drops, which isn’t exactly low. 🤔 Do you usually run in higher drop shoes?
My shoes are trying to hurt me, my hat makes mean jokes about me behind my back, and my watch is stealing money out of my wallet.😂No respect at all, as Rodney Dangerfield used to say. But I'm pretty sure you'd guess that I don't wear carbon-plate shoes mainly because Walmart doesn't sell them. Strong week of running for you, Matt! It's still looking really good leading into Boston from what I can see and I hope the taper goes really well. I had a decent week with 36 miles, just a bit short of 150 for March but I didn't push it after the planned unplanned rest days and other disruptions at the end of the month. I'm still ahead of pace for my best yearly mileage and the real test is surviving July and August, so I'm happy to err on the side of caution now. And I never yawn🥱during your videos.
If it turns out carbon plated shoes aren't as good as we've been led to believe, Walmart will snap them all up and we can all finally get them for a decent price! Glad to hear you're ahead for the year and you're right about the warmer months; it's just more difficult when everything is sticky and uncomfortable! My Boston training has been going well on paper, but things just haven't been clicking. It's tough to describe! 🤷🏻♂ Oh well. I'm not worried as i'll have a good time no matter what!
@@its_Matt_B_ Yeah, that would be a kick! Alas, Walmart seems headed in the opposite direction, away from having any shoes that are viable for running. I haven't been able to find "Walfly 998s"--my name for the Athletic Works-brand lightweight running shoes I've been wearing, which sold for $9.98--for well over a year. In fact, after watching your Kinvara 14 review, I was interested enough to look online and saw that 13s are being cleared out at less than half price, so I've got a pair of those headed my way. They're the first actual name-brand running shoes I've bought in at least a decade and it'll be fun to find out what they're like. Sorry to hear that you don't feel like your training is clicking. For what it's worth, a lot of my PRs came in races where my expectations were low. For longer distances, going out to have a fun time isn't such a bad strategy. And if all you did was to meet the numbers in training, maybe that just means that you didn't leave your best running on the road before the race starts, as we often do when it feels like things are going super well. Hoping for the best, and for great weather either way!
@@largeeddie I’m happy to hear you picked up a pair of the Kinvara 13s for such a good price. A little patience usually pays off, and seemingly always pays off when it comes to running shoes. I appreciate your positivity and agree that having fun is always a good strategy. I plan to run a similar strategy to last year, so we’ll see soon enough how it works out.
Yes 100% carbon plated shoes are bad if constantly running in them. I used carbon-plated running shoes for several years, during which I observed increased stiffness in my hamstrings and glutes. After transitioning to regular trail shoes, the tightness in my hamstrings resolved. Initially, I experienced greater fatigue in my glutes and ankles with non carbon trail shoes. Based on my experience, prolonged use of carbon-plated shoes has lead to me suffering from a hamstring injury and a reduced range of motion in the glutes, calves, and ankles, potentially due to the altered running biomechanics.
Help Matt! I have high arches. Wear custom orthotics for 20 years. I can't run in any shoe without them. If I put them in carbon plated shoes will it throw off my gait? I use Nike fly.
Hey Shelly! I don’t think it will throw off your gait, but I don’t have any experience so I can’t say for sure how it will affect everything. If your foot fits in the shoe with your orthotic I tend to assume you’ll be good to go!
I haven’t even posted my individual review of either yet. The Rebellion Pro video will drop on Friday, the Endo Elite will drop the following Friday. Comparison video to follow those.
@@its_Matt_B_ I'm curious about your thoughts on the elite pros as well. I have the pro 3's and curious if they are a upgrade or not. Been looking hard at the Rebellion Pros as well
@@JeepinNation I plan on making a comparison between the Pro 3 and the Elites too, but I’ll tell you my thoughts quickly: the Pro 3 are a better value but it ultimately comes down to if you prefer a soft Cush ride (Pro 3) or a slightly firmer ride (Elite).
@@Cakeeyu It depends on the individual. I would think that anything we use too much has the potential to cause injury, but the rods in the Boston 12 are not as stiff, so it won't be as rigid and therefor peobably won't contribute to the same type of injury!
Running exclusively in carbon plates, long training runs, excessively cushioned shoes, or running flats, or overuse- running too much/not enough easy/rest days, all of these things will potentially cause injuries. A case study of 5... The navicular is a precious bone with a tenuous blood supply but until more studies come up, i think we should chill out, mix it up - shoes/distances/trail/road and cross-training. Am prepping for Comrades in June, s*** is getting real now! 🥱 From a very slow runner who enjoys a carbon plated shoe on race day, Bondi 6 on slow days, and a mix of 10 pairs for everything else including New Balance 1500 & Vazee prism 1 from 4 years ago.
What do you mean "chill out?" If I chill out and don't sensationalize running news I'll have nothing to talk about! 🤣 Comrades is getting close!! How is your training coming along? You feeling good about it?
@@its_Matt_B_ what i mean by chill out we should mostly look at such small case studies and potential inferences drawn as eye openers and discussion points for the most part, and at the same time not discount anecdotal evidence and am actually glad you bring such running news content up (à la ice baths) and conversely us content consumers will appreciate how hard it is to get randomised controlled trials on running and such studies might be as good we'll get (hopefully not)
Thanks for the good content! I’d love to know how often you wear carbon plated shoes? I only wear mine for races (mostly because they’re expensive), but I’m considering starting to use them in workouts (of course, I’d gradually introduce them). Not because I care about running fast in workouts, but to help me recover better. My week of running wasn’t great, but it was better than the week before! After straining something in my ankle on March 23, I replaced a weeks worth of running workouts with bike workouts and saw a sports massage therapist twice. I’m feeling almost 100% better now, which is a huge relief because Boston is less than 2 weeks away! So excited! 🥱
I’m so glad to hear you’re back to full health! It’s a sketchy feeling getting aches and pains this close to a race! I wear plated shoes a couple times a week, and usually on workout days. I wear them more often when I have shoes that are in for testing. I wore the Saucony Endo Speed 3s for today’s 1 mile intervals, so I don’t aways use carbon plated shoes for workouts (the Speed 3s have a nylon plate).
🥱These carbon shoes are soooo bad I have 6 different pairs.. 🤣😂🤣 I agree about the gradual build with carbon shoes. I’m using my daily trainers for my marathon, I’ve just not done enough miles in my pro 3s yet. Maybe next time.
The Pro 3 is a fairly forgiving shoe. I bet you’d be fine running in them! Ugh! The carbon shoes made me say that! Those shoes really are out to get us!
Fascinating talk!! Being a slow distance runner, the cost of carbon plates is just a silly expense for me. Saving a few minutes on my 8 hour race isn't worth the investment. 😆 Being prone to foot fractures, ankle rolls, and hip pain, now that I know the risks of aggravating them, I can cross carbon plates off the maybe- sometime list. Thanks!! 🥱
Yeah, I’m not sure of the benefits of played shoes on the trails, although I do have a pair in for testing so I’ll let you know. Until then, it sounds rather comforting to cross all carbon plated shoes off your list!
I run almost exclusively in carbon plated shoes. NB SuperComp Trainers, Altra Canish Carbons, HOKA Rocket X, and Nike AlphaFly Next %. I find them all pretty stable and haven’t had any injuries. I run about 30 miles a week. But I do lift weights everyday so my body is generally stronger than someone who exclusively runs.
🥱 I've been getting up at 3:45am for this weeks shift so I'm pretty much yawning myself and hard to get home from work and go for my runs. Yesterdays easy recovery run just seemed so hard yet my HR average was 119bpm. Big 16km workout today I'm about to go on with 10min tempo before doing 4 x 3min intervals besides the 5km warm up and 5km cool down.
Nice workout today! Get out there and just do it! You'll always feel better after warming up! As far as yawning through your easy runs and easy runs feeling like they're harder than they actually are, I can relate! I am often surprised with how low my HR compared with how bad I feel! 😆
@@its_Matt_B_ work out done and paces hit nicely and no harder than yesterday's easy run. I think when you run easy you have no adrenalin which often makes those harder runs easier.
@@its_Matt_B_ yea, but you seems to enjoy that stress, much like I complain about my back and shoulders...it's good, or ok stress😉 And the pic with them shoes shows😊
I have my first in-person HM this coming weekend and did 21.1km on Saturday to practice my pacing (hold back but gun it in the final 5k). I finished two minutes under my target and think I have a little room to dial it up. Then the second back-to-back (also 21km) on Sunday in near gale-force wind gusts. I'm really starting to like back-to-back long runs and the magic of ice packs. I bought the new Vaporfly yesterday, but I had already gotten the previous model on sale a couple of weeks ago. I'm hoping to replace the Alphafly for marathons, but it is hard to beat at fast long distance. 🥱
Wow! You really knocked out a solid weekend of training! You are going to crush your HM next weekend! 💪🏽 So now you have the Vaporfly 2 and 3 AND Alphaflys? I have t run in the Alphaflys but it seems most people prefer the VF for longer races. I’m curious to know what you think after your race in the VFs!
I am waiting for my Endorphin Pro 3... VAPORFLY V2 is amazing.. Trying to get the Mizuno Pro but can't find it in my size... I only want the black / white Mizuno Pro... I have the Superblast and it's less flexible then my Vaporfly V2... My problem is the stability in the heel so I now got the 361 Flame.. Amazing shoe. Very firm and bouncy but stable. When I want a rest I run in the Ride 15... Old fashion goodness. Running slow in the Vaporfly V2 is very enjoyable but kills my Achilles Tendon...🥱🥱🥱
@@its_Matt_B_ I tried the RT and ST. ST more flexible and seems to have more room in the toebox so I took it. It is very narrow platform but very stable because the PEBAX midsole is hard. Very good energy return and super front rocker like I like. Got it for €150 and a free pair of socks worth €18. I have patches with loose rocks on the road and in the Alphafly V1 I twisted my heel.. In Vaporfly V2 need to be very careful.. In the 361 Flame no worries.. Just like in the Superblast.. No stability problems. 361 Flame ST is not as fast as the Vaporfly V2 on a good road but in the village the 361 Flame is much better.
🥱. Had a good week of running, a little over 58miles. Because of my schedule and kids and whatnot I’ve been running in the afternoon heat a lot of the time, so I’ve been retreating back to some shady trails. It’s been fun but tough! Never had any carbon shoes. I’m a very casual runner when it comes to races
58 miles is an absolutely phenomenal week considering those miles we during hottest part of the day. As a self described casual runner during races, you may find carbon plated shoes to be uncomfortable. I know when I’m running at an easier pace the stiffness of the plate is more of a hindrance than a benefit.
Used my next2% yesterday and I dont use them often , but do they feel good, like I have a force with me , gogo good training weekend 20km feeling great. 😊😊 🥱
I only ever run in carbon when it’s race day or if I need that edge during tough marathon pace workouts or tempo runs. My initial reason for that was that I’m a cheapskate and I want to extend the lifespan of those insanely expensive shoes as much as possible.
I also had the strength from fighting, lifting weights and sprinting in my legs when I started running, and while I did notice that especially my shins had to do more work in the beginning, I never had any issues with carbon.
Judging by what I’ve learned from this video, I unknowingly had the right approach to it. lol
Highly appreciated content!
The best type of content is content that supports what we already know to be true! 😁
I wouldn’t say you’re a cheapskate. You’re just determined to get the most value out of your purchase. I’d say you’re being environmentally conscious more than anything else! ♻️🌳
I really appreciate your informed good sense on this topic. You blend some information from research with experience in a way that I find very helpful. As someone who has acquired a few discounted pairs of carbon-plated shoes, keeps a mix of shoes in my rotation, runs myself, and also coaches, I think the tenor of your advice is spot on. As you wisely say, always good to adjust slowly, keep things varied, and generally use the well-established principles of acclimation and ongoing self-evaluation of how things are going. I would also note that it may well be that many runners, when they sink big bucks into a pair of carbon-plated shoes, may inclined to overuse them since a) they feel exciting at first and b) they cost so much you might have passed up on filling out your shoe rotation with alternatives. I see this with young runners all the time....when they finally get mom and dad to spring for carbon-plated shoes (or use their local job to buy them for themselves), they often come to over-rely on them. Uh-oh...thus begins the navicular bone death syndrome (I thought that part was funny). Nice work, Matt.
Cheers, Thomas! I appreciate your comment and kind words!
Yes, I can see how people can come to over rely on carbon shoes but I’ve also seen the opposite; because of the high cost, runners want to save them for their goal race day and so don’t practice in them! As with most things in life, a healthy balance is probably the right course of action! 😁
Ah, yes, moderation in all things! :)
@@its_Matt_B_
The first time i ran in the Vaporfly's I did some tempo/strides and injured my achilles where it meets my calf. Took a few months for that to go away. Totally my fault as I lacked the strength and form to properly run in those shoes. It's all good now though and I learned a valuable lesson about strength training for running and always be cautious of over-training
That type of lesson is always a pain to learn, and hopefully we all just have to learn it once!
1) Best ‘o luck to you at Boston!
2) I use carbon plate shoes - Saucony Endorphin Pro v2 - only for race days (plus a few break-in runs for new shoes). I swap shoes regularly for daily training run, just keep my feet “on their toes”. So to speak. This has worked well for me so far.
3) My week? Peak week at 72 miles - a lot for an old feller. One trail run, just to keep it fun (plus hopefully some balance and climbing benefit). Will throttle back some this week, as I focus on rest and readiness for London.
Cheers, Ed! I'm sending that luck right back at 'cha for London! What's your goal? 72 miles is an impressive peak week!
I'm with you on keeping your feet on their toes by mixing shoes! It sounds like a good way to go about this running lark, plus it lets us get lots of shoes! 🤷🏻♂😂
@@its_Matt_B_ Goal #1 is always to finish with a smile! I have a target of below 3:35; history suggests 3:45 is likely. (My opening half’s are stronger; mile 18 and on is where the kryptonite get unwrapped.) But still being a running newbie - albeit of advanced years - I am just ecstatic that I can run at all. Blessed!
I use carbon plated shoes only up to a half marathon. I have pain start to develop after the half marathon race where you really need that kick because those shorter distances require faster paces. For the marathon, it’s another story. The marathon is really about efficient running economy. I tend to use non-plated shoes. If your foot starts to hurt just a little past half marathon mark because of the carbon plated shoes then that would make you less economical because you now have an injury.
I love that you know yourself and your body so well that you know at which distance not to use carbon plated shoes. Do you have the same pain develop when you use nylon plated shoes?
I have used one nylon plated shoe before: Endorphin Speed 2. I like that shoe BUT the foam is too soft. I find my arches collapsing too much on that foam making it unstable. I prefer a little firmer foams for more inherent stability. I currently use the Asics Superblast for marathon training and for racing the marathon. That shoe is exceptional. It is not overly soft, bouncy, retains its integrity, and fast rebounding. I feel like I am wearing a plated shoe but with no plate. It takes care of your feet too after long miles.
I do 2/3rds of my runs and all my races in carbon plated shoes, but I use traditional race flats or low drop thin midsole Topo shoes 1-2 times weekly for easy short (4-5mile) days, or for a 1-2 mile cool down after a long run in carbon plated shoes. I also do eccentric calf strengthening and stand on a balance block regularly to be sure my foot muscles don't atrophy and lower extremity tendons are used through their range.
Nice! It sounds like you've found a good system for using CF shoes and staying strong and healthy!
Answer to question. Run in both low and high carbon fiber plates: low were adizero Pros 24 stack, magic speeds. But high, too::Prime x, endorphin pro 2, adios pro. So have been able to mix it uo. Stilll working thru psoas
That’s some good carbon plate experience you’ve got! 👊🏽
Sorry to hear you’re still dealing with your psoas issues. Are things getting better?
For the past few years I was running in the Nike Tempo Next, but recently bought the Nike Alphafly 1. Not a serious runner either. The Alphafly 1 is the best running shoe I've ever owned, but I wanted to test run my old Tempo's to feel the difference between the two. So going back to the Tempo Next shoes, I got a slight hyper-extended knee and felt sore in my front lower knee area (same leg). My conclusion, the Alphafly 1 limits the extension of the knee with its spring-coil effect and disburses the force from the ground up differently than a shoe without a carbon fiber plate. I went back to my Alphafly shoes and the problems went away. Alphafly's are a big "cheat code" for running, but you only live once & we should enjoy the cheats along with all the hard work we put in w/ our running.
Seems like an understandable conclusion about the limited extension. I agree 100% on the "cheat code" use! Use them and enjoy them when you get them! Cheers, Rebel!
🥱Absolutely came down to Sarasota specifically for a run! Pity we were only down for a couple of days! Will definitely make a point of scheduling a longer stay next time. Thanks again for an enjoyable run👍
It was brilliant running with you, Gav! Thanks for taking the time! Enjoy the rest of your holiday! ☀😎
🥱Hi Matt, I think plates do change the force distribution and can cause repetitive stress injury in areas where our feet are not strong enough. I had my Achiles tendon injury in a carbon plated shoe. Also had Plantar Fasciitis type injury in another. I think it is prudent to rotate shoes even among carbon plated shoes for a slightly different distribution of forces each time.
Last week I did one training 10-mile run and two races, and the rest was bicycle, elliptical, rowing and strength training with Friday being a complete rest and travel day.
The races I did, as I mentioned before, were Cherry Blossom 5k and Cherry Blossom 10 mile in Washington, DC. 5k was on a rainy day and 10 mile was on a cold and windy day. I did better than I expected of my situation (27:03 5k, 1:29:40 for 10-miles). So, I am happy with the results considering the injury I had and minimal running following it. Those placed roughly in top top 20% of my age group in both races. I ran 5k in Vaporfly 2 and 10 mile in Endorphin Pro 3. Stability of Pro 3 helped in the 10 miler. Oh yes, the experience of running through a channel of Cherry Blossom as part of the 10 mile race was priceless.
I’m with you on rotating shoes, even if we’re rotating carbon plated shoes. This morning I even opted for the Endo Speed 3 for my intervals!
Epic racing this weekend! Clearly the Endo Pro 3 and Next% 2s are different, but which one do you prefer running in?
@@its_Matt_B_ I think I prefer running 5k/10k in VF2 and longer in EP3 between these two.
If I had not got injured, I was going to run 5k in Takumi Sen 8 and 10 mile in VF2. VF2 is a bit more aggressive than EP3 but EP3 is more stable which I appreciate a bit more on longer races.
I run in Saucony Endorphin Pro 3s. I notice after running especially first thing in the morning when I get up the outsides of feet near the Peroneus tendon are stressed and sore it wears off through the day. I know it’s the shoes as I don’t get this issue in my XC shoes on trail. Been using the Saucony’s for about a year… interesting blog Thanks 🙏
This is interesting, and i'm sorry to hear you're dealing with it. Have you found the same issue with other plated shoes? Which XC shoes are you using?
I'm hesitant to assign blame to the plate part of the shoe, rather than the whole shoe itself. Perhaps the Pro 3 just doesn't work for you or perhaps you feel best in a more flexible shoe!
This is the reason I switch up shoes almost every run. I almost never run in the same pair of shoes back to back and I have a specific shoe in mind for each run. Some carbon plated, some nylon plated and some without a plate.
Your good to mix up your shoes! Your body (and your shoes) thank you! 👊🏽
Very interesting information. So I have always been a gym meathead head, per se. But I work in law enforcement, and at 51 years old now, about 4 years ago, I started running some sprints for my job. Then 2 years ago, I had a horrific leg injury. I was in a foot pursuit and jumped a water gap, and when I landed, I tore both middle quad muscles and my quad tendon away from the bone. So once rehab was over I decided to take up running but only 5k and interval training as fast pace 400 meter and 100 meter sprints. I recently tried the Saucony Elite and love this shoe, but I am not sure if this is more shoes than I need. It helped with my joint pain, it seemed, but that was just on the treadmill at the shoe store, and I ran a half-mile test run. Would this hurt to use this shoe for 5 days a week training in it?
@@realdeal1512 Ugh! That injury sounds horrific! So sorry you went through it.
There are plenty of people that use carbon plated shoes for all their training.
I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t use the Endo Elite for everything, especially because your overall volume isn’t going to be too high.
Ultimately, your comfort when running is what matters. If the Endo Elite feel good to you, use them! 💫
🥱 Great video, Matt! I’ve had some success with plated shoes in HM races but have felt discomfort in my achilles at the same time. Been hesitant to try them in a marathon…maybe one day. I’m going with the Brooks Hyperion Max for Boston in 2 weeks and I think that will work out well for what I want to accomplish.
I can’t think of a better non-plated shoe choice than the Hyperion Max! Enjoy the taper, Derek!
Hi matt,ive only started running in carbon plated shoes the last couple of years got two in my rotation the deviate nitro elite 2 and nitro elite v1 both great shoes but not too aggressive with the plate..they do give you that little kick when you pick u the pace!interesting study👍
Those are both great shoes! I do find V1 to be a little more aggressive (feeling faster) but I definitely prefer running in V2.
🥱 Another great video Matt 🙌
Cheers, John! 👊🏽 (Thanks for the 🥱 too!)
Vaporflys for Z3 and above and invincible run for Z2 and below
That seems like an ok recipe to follow for a Nike-only runner!
🥱 The concept of under-use injuries is fascinating! When I grow up I want to be a sports scientist of some kind. 😃 Best wishes in Boston! 🥇
Thanks so much, Tina! There is so much stuff I want to do when I grow up, and I’m with you that a sports scientist is one of them!
Yeah, under-use and over-use injuries are fascinating and makes me wonder how big is the space in between them? 🤔
Fine content man. 👍👍👍👍👍
Cheers! I appreciate the comment! 👊🏽
Nike Vaporfly 1; every time I run in these, only for short distances, I always get lower back pain the day after. They are fast and I feel fine during the run, but it's happened every time. I feel that the plate in some of these shoes is so stiff it maybe causes an unnatural gait.
🤔 That's interesting and also a shame. I don't know what the mechanics are of the shoes causing your back pain but they sure are stiff!
Have you tried any other plated shoes and if so, did you experience anything similar?
I am 67 years old, 6'2" tall, and weigh 195 lbs. Lately I have been having a calf injury which I think is related to super shoes. One question I have is runner weight versus foam density of the shoes and possible antagonistic muscle strain caused by too soft foam. I am wondering if my trail leg starts to come forward when the heel is still dropping down into the foam because my weight is too heavy to get the proper rebound from the midsole. Not sure? Also the super shoes have very little front to back flexibility so that could put more strain on the calf. At this point I have gone back to more normal shoes with a higher heel to toe drop and at least some flex in the forefoot. I ran in Nike carbon super shoes for a number of years with no issues but got a calf strain pretty quickly using Asics Superblast shoes. Until very recently I ran trails in Hoka Tecton X 2 shoes with zero issues but they seem firmer foam. Could be that I am just old and too heavy now. Wondering if super shoes are especially bad for older runners. Overall I have run regularly since 1979 and over 50,000 miles with relatively few injuries.
I'm not a scientist and have no formal training in the field of training or biomechanics, but I doubt you are too old or heavy to run. It seems to be that particular shoe that caused (or exacerbated) and injury and you're having difficulty healing from it. It's good you've gone back to more traditional shoes to see how they work for you!
Are you seeing any improvement?
🥱 Great episode Matt! Best of luck at Boston if I don’t see you before!
Cheers, Paul, and thanks so much for the 🥱! 👊🏽
I just bought the Adios Pro 3 that has carbon rods going under the metatarsals I wonder if that is a more natural transition from non-plated shoes. Taking them out on 26 km tomorrow!
Congrats on picking up the Adios Pro 3s! LMK how that first run goes in them!
Always great content. Thanks Matt.
Thank YOU for always watching! I appreciate it! 👊🏽
@@its_Matt_B_ I'm glad I found your channel.
@@MyFatAdaptedLife 🙌🏽
My long run shoe is the saucony speed 2, marathon is in 7 weeks so I decided to start using my race shoe, saucony pro 2 (almost the same as the speed 2 but with a plate), first tried a 10k with it, felt great, next I tried a 25k, pain started at 15k and by 20k it got severe, quit at 23k, it was a severe upper calf pain which transformed into a hammering of the top shin (inside) and bottom ankle pain. This was almost a week ago and it still hurts, my chance to start at that marathon is slim, mentally I kind of gave up on it already. Incredibly disappointed, wish I just used my speed 2 as before.
I 100% get your disappointment but don’t give up yet. Take another week off and reassess.
Personally, I could not run a marathon in the Pro 2; they’re just too firm. Check out the Pro 3 (there are some good sales out there). They are much softer and far more conducive to running the marathon distance. I’ve run several marathons in my Pro 3s and love them.
@@its_Matt_B_ I never give up even if it depresses me... I didn't find anything extra about the pro 2 compared to the speed 2, slightly firmer and slightly more forward push but in essence it felt the same but somehow it pulled the calf muscle way too much, I couldn't walk properly for 2 days, couldn't go down the stairs for 3days. Yesterday I tried a short run but it still aches. Will try another short run tomorrow and see if it improved anything.
I'd recommend giving your injury a little longer time to heal! You won't loose any fitness if you wait a few extra days! If you keep "testing" it you could inadvertently prolong the healing time! Good luck! @@OZSA87
the injury happened on monday morning, I did a short test run (30min) on saturday evening, I did 2 short (30min) cycling friday and sunday (tonight), when would you go for another test run?@@its_Matt_B_
You raise some interesting points. I am a big fan of the Arthur Lydiard method of running, he states that a good running shoe should move with the foot, and that it should be like slipper. If you strapped two boards to the bottom of your feet you struggle to walk let alone run. He also states that there is a lot of power in ankle flexing and the arch of the foot and that is why sprinters generally have high archers. Arthur always prescribed hill work for his runners, uphill bounding, springing, fast uphill running etc for this reason. Every shoe I buy I make sure that the heel of the shoe can touch the toe, and yes I run in max cushion shoes, Hoka clifton 9 and kinvara 14 at the present. I also use the altra olympus series as well. Max cushion allow lessor impact and allow us to run more, howevery we need to strengthen our tenons and ligaments (under developed) which take longer than muscles (Months not weeks) and this is why lower stack, firmer shoes, Kinvara 13, altra escalante, saucony sinister etc help strengthen them on tempo and track work outs. As you said "ease in to it", this is why shoe rotation and quiver is important. Great topic....🥇
Lydiard’s method holds a lot of water.
As I was reading you comment I was excited to recommend the Clifton 9 and Kinvara 14 then, in the next breath, you said you have them! 🤣 They’re both fantastic shoes!
@@its_Matt_B_ Have been running in clifton since Version 1. Transition from the kinvara to the clifton as I needed more foam under foot for distance greater that half marathon. Stopped at version 5 as I felt the clifton lost the whole design concept and picked up the Rincon which is basicly what the clifton 1 to 3 was. 3 being my favorite I went through 5 pairs. After running in the NB More v4 and seeing the additional stack in the clifton 9 I gave the Clifton another go and was very happy with the result. After running a half marathon distance in the kinvara 14 on sunday I'm struggling to choose between the kinvara 14 and the clifton 9 for my runs as they are simular but different.
I have a rotation of Puma deviate nitro 2,Asics Magic Speed 3 and Saucony Endorphin Pro 2 all only for speed days😅
That’s a speedy rotation! 🤣
🫢🥱
Dying bones aside, it would seem quite logical that if you don’t use something it fades away or gets weaker and when it comes to muscles, tendons and even ligaments that will manifest in less movement, strength and efficiency.
The complete opposite of the ‘training effect’ that we want.
Use it or lose it Matthew🙄
I love carbon in all of its forms, I do go back to softer more compliant shoes for most of my training, the psychological effect alone of putting on one of my pairs of faster shoes for fast training or a race all adds to the experience.
I totally agree with you about the psychological effet of putting on fast shoes! It just makes you feel like you can do more!
Yes, the whole "use it or lose it" thing does indeed seem logical, but it's very difficult to make a 8-10 minute video saying that one phrase. I have to stretch it out to make it work for me. Brevity is not one of my strengths!🤣
Awesome video. I've tried on a carbon-plated shoe before (because they're usually quite expensive and for me, unnecessary) but still interesting to learn about. I never thought about underuse injury but that is a really good point. Do you think that this applies to switching from a stability shoe to a neutral shoe?
For my week of running:
I finished my training for my peak 5k race and absolutely smashed it at my race. I was going for a PB (PB was 26:00) and I got an official time of 25:43. I'm really happy with my performance. I'm taking a sort of down week this week to prepare for summer base training.
Huge congratulations on your PB! Brilliant racing! 💪🏽
I don’t think the same thing would Apple when switching between a stability and neutral shoe. The way I understood it was the plate made the shoe so rigid and that’s what led to an increased risk of injury.
I have a carbon plated pair of shoes but have not used them yet. Carbon plated shoes makes you prone to foot stress fractures. Also just to get used to it you have to use them at least weekly. For most recreational runners its a no go.
Which shoes do you have?
A lot of runners do some kind of speed work weekly, so I think there is a place for them in many runner’s rotations.
@@its_Matt_B_ i have hoka rocket x. I prefer some racing flats for real speedwork (ie 1500m pace), for 3-5k pace or slower any daily trainers is fine for me.
Thanks for the video im concerned about always having ankle pain after running in Boson 11 or Deviate Nitro 2. I think it re exposés my bad ankle re awake
Ugh! Sorry to hear it!
It's probably best to stop running in both those shoes. I can't say if it's the plate that's causing the ankle pain, but it's worth experimenting with other shoes to see what works for you. Good luck!
@@its_Matt_B_ thanks ill follow ur advise about slowly introducing softer plated shoes (like sc trainer) once a week a keep alternating . Thanks again
Hi I have used carbon plated shoes
For my 150m×2 repetation.I haven't faced any discomfort.wheather it may cause any injury when i use it for 400m allout race.
Using it for 400m allout race
LMK how they workout in your 400m race! I don’t expect anything negative at that distance! The plate fatigue I can feel sometimes usually comes after running in them for a couple hours!
I only have had Achilles pain here and there from carbon plated shoes, maybe occasionally some calf pain depending on the shoes. I have made it a point to run more without plates since I have a lot of plated shoes
Have you found some plated shoes give you more trouble than others? Which would you say is the worse culprit?
@@its_Matt_B_ the endorphin pro 3 primarily. But it’s not every time and it’s not bad enough to make me stop running in them. Deviate nitro 2 does it from time to time as well. It’s only ever a sore Achilles though and nothing more than that
@@robertarmero6320 🤔 It makes it even more tricky when it doesn’t happen every time!
@@its_Matt_B_ yea and it’s only ever on my right side too. So it’s a very inconsistent thing, but I know it’s the carbon plates
@@robertarmero6320 I wonder if the drop has anything to do with it. Usually a low drop puts more impact force on the Achilles and calves, but both the DNE2 and EP3 have 8mm drops, which isn’t exactly low. 🤔
Do you usually run in higher drop shoes?
My shoes are trying to hurt me, my hat makes mean jokes about me behind my back, and my watch is stealing money out of my wallet.😂No respect at all, as Rodney Dangerfield used to say. But I'm pretty sure you'd guess that I don't wear carbon-plate shoes mainly because Walmart doesn't sell them. Strong week of running for you, Matt! It's still looking really good leading into Boston from what I can see and I hope the taper goes really well. I had a decent week with 36 miles, just a bit short of 150 for March but I didn't push it after the planned unplanned rest days and other disruptions at the end of the month. I'm still ahead of pace for my best yearly mileage and the real test is surviving July and August, so I'm happy to err on the side of caution now. And I never yawn🥱during your videos.
If it turns out carbon plated shoes aren't as good as we've been led to believe, Walmart will snap them all up and we can all finally get them for a decent price!
Glad to hear you're ahead for the year and you're right about the warmer months; it's just more difficult when everything is sticky and uncomfortable!
My Boston training has been going well on paper, but things just haven't been clicking. It's tough to describe! 🤷🏻♂ Oh well. I'm not worried as i'll have a good time no matter what!
@@its_Matt_B_ Yeah, that would be a kick! Alas, Walmart seems headed in the opposite direction, away from having any shoes that are viable for running. I haven't been able to find "Walfly 998s"--my name for the Athletic Works-brand lightweight running shoes I've been wearing, which sold for $9.98--for well over a year. In fact, after watching your Kinvara 14 review, I was interested enough to look online and saw that 13s are being cleared out at less than half price, so I've got a pair of those headed my way. They're the first actual name-brand running shoes I've bought in at least a decade and it'll be fun to find out what they're like.
Sorry to hear that you don't feel like your training is clicking. For what it's worth, a lot of my PRs came in races where my expectations were low. For longer distances, going out to have a fun time isn't such a bad strategy. And if all you did was to meet the numbers in training, maybe that just means that you didn't leave your best running on the road before the race starts, as we often do when it feels like things are going super well. Hoping for the best, and for great weather either way!
@@largeeddie I’m happy to hear you picked up a pair of the Kinvara 13s for such a good price. A little patience usually pays off, and seemingly always pays off when it comes to running shoes.
I appreciate your positivity and agree that having fun is always a good strategy. I plan to run a similar strategy to last year, so we’ll see soon enough how it works out.
Yes 100% carbon plated shoes are bad if constantly running in them. I used carbon-plated running shoes for several years, during which I observed increased stiffness in my hamstrings and glutes. After transitioning to regular trail shoes, the tightness in my hamstrings resolved. Initially, I experienced greater fatigue in my glutes and ankles with non carbon trail shoes. Based on my experience, prolonged use of carbon-plated shoes has lead to me suffering from a hamstring injury and a reduced range of motion in the glutes, calves, and ankles, potentially due to the altered running biomechanics.
Interesting! Not totally unexpected when we stop and think about it. As with most things, moderation is probably a good way to approach their use.
Help Matt! I have high arches. Wear custom orthotics for 20 years. I can't run in any shoe without them. If I put them in carbon plated shoes will it throw off my gait? I use Nike fly.
Hey Shelly!
I don’t think it will throw off your gait, but I don’t have any experience so I can’t say for sure how it will affect everything.
If your foot fits in the shoe with your orthotic I tend to assume you’ll be good to go!
I don't remember your thoughts on the Endorphin Elite and Mizuno Pro.. 😮
I haven’t even posted my individual review of either yet. The Rebellion Pro video will drop on Friday, the Endo Elite will drop the following Friday. Comparison video to follow those.
@@its_Matt_B_ I'm curious about your thoughts on the elite pros as well. I have the pro 3's and curious if they are a upgrade or not. Been looking hard at the Rebellion Pros as well
@@JeepinNation I plan on making a comparison between the Pro 3 and the Elites too, but I’ll tell you my thoughts quickly: the Pro 3 are a better value but it ultimately comes down to if you prefer a soft Cush ride (Pro 3) or a slightly firmer ride (Elite).
I have Adizero Boston 12, is that carbon plated as well? Pls help thanks!
No. The Boston 12 nylon support rods. They are not as rigid as carbon fiber (and not as expensive).
@@its_Matt_B_ So, does this mean that it won’t have the said problems discussed in the vdo? Thanks for your response, Matt!
@@Cakeeyu Remind me, what is the problem you're referring to?
That carbon plated shoes may cause injury to the feet if over used.
@@Cakeeyu It depends on the individual. I would think that anything we use too much has the potential to cause injury, but the rods in the Boston 12 are not as stiff, so it won't be as rigid and therefor peobably won't contribute to the same type of injury!
Running exclusively in carbon plates, long training runs, excessively cushioned shoes, or running flats, or overuse- running too much/not enough easy/rest days, all of these things will potentially cause injuries. A case study of 5... The navicular is a precious bone with a tenuous blood supply but until more studies come up, i think we should chill out, mix it up - shoes/distances/trail/road and cross-training.
Am prepping for Comrades in June, s*** is getting real now! 🥱
From a very slow runner who enjoys a carbon plated shoe on race day, Bondi 6 on slow days, and a mix of 10 pairs for everything else including New Balance 1500 & Vazee prism 1 from 4 years ago.
What do you mean "chill out?" If I chill out and don't sensationalize running news I'll have nothing to talk about! 🤣
Comrades is getting close!! How is your training coming along? You feeling good about it?
@@its_Matt_B_ what i mean by chill out we should mostly look at such small case studies and potential inferences drawn as eye openers and discussion points for the most part, and at the same time not discount anecdotal evidence and am actually glad you bring such running news content up (à la ice baths) and conversely us content consumers will appreciate how hard it is to get randomised controlled trials on running and such studies might be as good we'll get (hopefully not)
@@its_Matt_B_ training is coming along ok, so hard having to juggle work, family, long runs, cross training, and early mornings or running after work.
@@mthuthuzelimsobantu5546 Yeah, I get it! The balance is always the tricky part! Keep doing what you can! 💫
Thanks for the good content! I’d love to know how often you wear carbon plated shoes? I only wear mine for races (mostly because they’re expensive), but I’m considering starting to use them in workouts (of course, I’d gradually introduce them). Not because I care about running fast in workouts, but to help me recover better.
My week of running wasn’t great, but it was better than the week before! After straining something in my ankle on March 23, I replaced a weeks worth of running workouts with bike workouts and saw a sports massage therapist twice. I’m feeling almost 100% better now, which is a huge relief because Boston is less than 2 weeks away! So excited! 🥱
I’m so glad to hear you’re back to full health! It’s a sketchy feeling getting aches and pains this close to a race!
I wear plated shoes a couple times a week, and usually on workout days. I wear them more often when I have shoes that are in for testing.
I wore the Saucony Endo Speed 3s for today’s 1 mile intervals, so I don’t aways use carbon plated shoes for workouts (the Speed 3s have a nylon plate).
I’m also so glad I’m better! Thanks for the info on when you use super shoes!
I like your hand motions❤ but your accent...can not figure it out...are you Austrian? ❤
Yeah, my accent is a bit dodgy. 🤣
I’m British but I’ve lived in the U.S. for 20 years or so.
🥱 I too am starting to phase in my taper (my race is on the 16th)
Nice! What are you racing?
@@its_Matt_B_ Manchester, UK
@@JohnBirtchetSharpe Good luck. Enjoy the taper! 💪🏽
@@its_Matt_B_ you too 🙂
🥱These carbon shoes are soooo bad I have 6 different pairs.. 🤣😂🤣 I agree about the gradual build with carbon shoes. I’m using my daily trainers for my marathon, I’ve just not done enough miles in my pro 3s yet. Maybe next time.
The Pro 3 is a fairly forgiving shoe. I bet you’d be fine running in them! Ugh! The carbon shoes made me say that! Those shoes really are out to get us!
Fascinating talk!! Being a slow distance runner, the cost of carbon plates is just a silly expense for me. Saving a few minutes on my 8 hour race isn't worth the investment. 😆 Being prone to foot fractures, ankle rolls, and hip pain, now that I know the risks of aggravating them, I can cross carbon plates off the maybe- sometime list. Thanks!! 🥱
Yeah, I’m not sure of the benefits of played shoes on the trails, although I do have a pair in for testing so I’ll let you know. Until then, it sounds rather comforting to cross all carbon plated shoes off your list!
I run almost exclusively in carbon plated shoes. NB SuperComp Trainers, Altra Canish Carbons, HOKA Rocket X, and Nike AlphaFly Next %. I find them all pretty stable and haven’t had any injuries. I run about 30 miles a week. But I do lift weights everyday so my body is generally stronger than someone who exclusively runs.
Good to hear! There’s a lot to be said for a solid strength routine! 💪🏽
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🥱Training for Keys 50 miler, it's starting to get toasty in Florida!!
🤣 It really is getting warm already! My car says 91°f atm. This is going to be a hot year for Keys! 💪🏽
🥱 I've been getting up at 3:45am for this weeks shift so I'm pretty much yawning myself and hard to get home from work and go for my runs. Yesterdays easy recovery run just seemed so hard yet my HR average was 119bpm. Big 16km workout today I'm about to go on with 10min tempo before doing 4 x 3min intervals besides the 5km warm up and 5km cool down.
Nice workout today! Get out there and just do it! You'll always feel better after warming up! As far as yawning through your easy runs and easy runs feeling like they're harder than they actually are, I can relate! I am often surprised with how low my HR compared with how bad I feel! 😆
@@its_Matt_B_ work out done and paces hit nicely and no harder than yesterday's easy run. I think when you run easy you have no adrenalin which often makes those harder runs easier.
@@alanshrimpton6787 I hadn’t thought about the adrenaline aspect, but it makes sense! Nice going getting it done!
🥱 I'm glad I don't compete...save bunches on watches and plated shoes. You go, Matt, best in Boston!
I get being glad about not competing! Not only does it save money but saves a lot of stress too!
@@its_Matt_B_ yea, but you seems to enjoy that stress, much like I complain about my back and shoulders...it's good, or ok stress😉 And the pic with them shoes shows😊
@@rualablhor You’re right; it’s a stress I don’t mind too much! 😃
I have my first in-person HM this coming weekend and did 21.1km on Saturday to practice my pacing (hold back but gun it in the final 5k). I finished two minutes under my target and think I have a little room to dial it up. Then the second back-to-back (also 21km) on Sunday in near gale-force wind gusts. I'm really starting to like back-to-back long runs and the magic of ice packs. I bought the new Vaporfly yesterday, but I had already gotten the previous model on sale a couple of weeks ago. I'm hoping to replace the Alphafly for marathons, but it is hard to beat at fast long distance. 🥱
Wow! You really knocked out a solid weekend of training! You are going to crush your HM next weekend! 💪🏽
So now you have the Vaporfly 2 and 3 AND Alphaflys? I have t run in the Alphaflys but it seems most people prefer the VF for longer races.
I’m curious to know what you think after your race in the VFs!
"...I think we need to avoid our bones dying.." Haha. Excellent! You could be onto something there! 🥱
Like I said, I’m no doctor but I stand by that advice! 🤣
Thanks for the 🥱! 👊🏽
I am waiting for my Endorphin Pro 3... VAPORFLY V2 is amazing.. Trying to get the Mizuno Pro but can't find it in my size... I only want the black / white Mizuno Pro... I have the Superblast and it's less flexible then my Vaporfly V2... My problem is the stability in the heel so I now got the 361 Flame.. Amazing shoe. Very firm and bouncy but stable. When I want a rest I run in the Ride 15... Old fashion goodness. Running slow in the Vaporfly V2 is very enjoyable but kills my Achilles Tendon...🥱🥱🥱
I’m with you on the black and white Wave Rebellion Pro. It’s the only color to get! 😍
Which Flame did you get? Last year’s model or the RS/ST?
@@its_Matt_B_ I tried the RT and ST. ST more flexible and seems to have more room in the toebox so I took it. It is very narrow platform but very stable because the PEBAX midsole is hard. Very good energy return and super front rocker like I like. Got it for €150 and a free pair of socks worth €18. I have patches with loose rocks on the road and in the Alphafly V1 I twisted my heel.. In Vaporfly V2 need to be very careful.. In the 361 Flame no worries.. Just like in the Superblast.. No stability problems. 361 Flame ST is not as fast as the Vaporfly V2 on a good road but in the village the 361 Flame is much better.
🥱. Had a good week of running, a little over 58miles. Because of my schedule and kids and whatnot I’ve been running in the afternoon heat a lot of the time, so I’ve been retreating back to some shady trails. It’s been fun but tough! Never had any carbon shoes. I’m a very casual runner when it comes to races
58 miles is an absolutely phenomenal week considering those miles we during hottest part of the day.
As a self described casual runner during races, you may find carbon plated shoes to be uncomfortable. I know when I’m running at an easier pace the stiffness of the plate is more of a hindrance than a benefit.
Used my next2% yesterday and I dont use them often , but do they feel good, like I have a force with me , gogo good training weekend 20km feeling great. 😊😊 🥱
Those Next%2s really make you feel speedy! Great weekend of running! 💪🏽
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Cheers, Daniel! 👊🏽
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Yes to you! 🙌🏽