DO YOU NEED CARBON PLATE RUNNING SHOES? The Foam or the Plate? That is the question! | EDDBUD
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- DO YOU NEED CARBON PLATE RUNNING SHOES?
Is it the Foam or the Plate that makes the difference?
Today a discussion vlog surrounding carbon plate running shoes.
There is a whole gamut of new carbon plate shoes on the horizon, each with big advertising budgets, more foam and "SPECIAL" plates. Are they really any good and will they actually help you at all?!
Today i look at where they came from, what they were designed to do and are they worth a look.
Do you really need them?!
Let me know your thoughts and opinions on this hot topic in the comments below.
Hold tight people, stay strong and we WILL make it through.
Keep it nice in the comments please, i do not do unpleasant, its just ..... unpleasant. See you in the digital ones and zeros......
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Do I need them? Absolutely not.
Will I continue to buy them? Absolutely.
The joys of being a man with a hobby. Spending far too much on things which probably won’t help me, will definitely make me look a bit daft but will make my day a little more fun.
At least I didn’t take up cycling. 😂
Running is very cheap compared to vinyl or guitar collecting. 😂
Or ⛳ golf. $3000 clubs to be used once a week
Or billiards. I could buy a lot of shoes for what I paid for my pool cue. I’ve been putting a lot of miles onto my mountain bike though. My goodness the shoes I could buy for what I paid for that!!
I’m a massive fan of the Endorphin Speeds with their compressive midsole and nylon plate. They immediately took around 20s per mile off my times. After a few months of getting used to them I decided to get a pair of the carbon-plated Pros. First run I thought I’d made a mistake. Too firm, less forgiving, no speed advantage. I put them back in the box for a few weeks. But then I tried them again to see if I should wear them for a forthcoming half marathon race where I’m targeting 1:30 (which would be a PB). I did a HM time trial and got round it in 1:28. Couldn’t believe it. They definitely worked for me this time. What I found was that by running at maximum effort I got the benefit of the superior energy return. So I’ll only be getting the Pros out for races and time trials. That’s not because they are an expensive luxury. It’s simply because, for me, that’s where they really make a difference.
Totally agree. The Speed's make such a difference to your runs it's unbelievable. Not only can you run quicker but the HR doesn't seem to get as high because of the energy return. I can run a minute quicker jogging in the Speed's at the same amount of effort as I would in a pair of Gel Nimbus. It's almost hard to run in a regular cushioned pair of shoes now because you feel like you have to put a lot of effort in. The Speed's are worth their money in Gold and more.
Short answer is yes if you want to get PB's in races. Do cyclists need carbon racing bikes? Yes they do because they are lighter, faster and more efficient for racing, which is why TDF riders and triathletes don't use aluminium bikes. Having a carbon plated shoe for racing will help people run faster. BUT, as you say we shouldn't be training in these all the time. I have just bought the Fuelcell TC and love it for faster runs when I can really feel the benefit of the plate, but I train mostly in Novablast or the Infinity React. Another great video by the way!
Cheers Edd not got a carbon plate in my runners think the fastest way to lighten my trainers is to eat less crisps / pork scratchings and stay off the beer!
Superb comment. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Agreed. You can get so many gains from this, just a little difficult to pull off 😂
Here's another opinion of mine, I never used to think about shoes as much as I do now. I would buy a pair I liked and use them for daily and race runs. Didn't think about weight or upper material or propulsion. I personally think that too much obsession in which shoes should be used for daily, or race, or speed etc. Find a shoe you feel comfortable in and use it for whatever runs you like. It really isn't that important if you use a light shoe or a heavy shoe for your race or training. We're talking minute differences in weight. Most gels weigh more than the differences we are talking about here.
I found that I love the Vaporfly. I use them every single run now. If I enjoy them, why shouldn't I use them? It's time to stop over-thinking shoe selection, it really doesn't matter.
After nearly a decade of running injury free in low drop, low stack shoes (Altra, Saucony Kinvara/Freedom, Skechers Razor, etc), I developed a serious case of shoe FOMO after PR-ing the marathon in Fall 2019 (in a pair of Escalante's no less). I dove head-first into high-drop, high-stack, carbon plate, nylon plate, whatever tech I felt I missed out on. 2020 turned into an injury plagued mess, and at long last I got help from PT in early 2021. PT strongly recommended I ditch the plates and high stack tech, calling those foot coffins, and return to the more minimal shoes.
Sounds like you had a thing going with the lower stack shoes. These highly cushioned offerings are not for everyone. 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
Same! Picking up the altra Riveras. Can’t do these maximalist shoes any longer. I’m trying to take control of my running once more. Don’t need to be bouncing down the street.
Mull it over Monday with Edd. I feel like a well poured pint at Edd’s local is the only way to improve this conversation.
Matt, that sounds so good! This could be a new feature. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
@@EDDBUD perhaps one day I’ll be able to join you there and we can swap stories about people mispronouncing out last names and all things Polish.
The great thing for us average Joe's is that you can train harder and longer with plated shoes. All because of the foam of course. That makes running even more fun. To progress. So you have to take that in account also. Besides the given point that it is so fun to take a run with a super light, bouncy plated shoe. 😊
Hi Edd. Not for training, but I think they help and are for fun racing. But there is a price limit that is getting close to stupid. Thanks, and it is an excellent video with lots of helpful information.
Thats what worries me about the new Adidas Boston. Huge stack height, when the old Bostons were some of the lowest stack heights available on road shoes. Great for training, and even pretty good for racing.
I bought the Endorphin Pro only because I wanted additional incentive on interval days, though I was curious as to whether or not they would feel any different. Mentally I find it to be similar to taking out the road bike vs MTB; road bike is for training and going fast, MTB is for having fun in the woods. All mental constructs that amount to placebo of course. In the end by the time I’m into an actual high intensity interval there really isn’t anything that will interfere with me giving it the appropriate amount of beans. But I don’t mind telling myself, “today is definitely interval day, so break out the Pro’s.” The training effect will be the same no matter what runners I’m in so long as the cardiovascular and muscle stress are the same, but I do allow florescent orange shoes to affect my excitement level when lacing up. The actual ride: for sure compared to my other runners, the Pro’s provide a smoother and faster heal-toe transition running downhill- complete elimination of foot slap. They’re awkward to walk in, but feel great running. I have my rationalizations for buying them🤩
Once my half marathon pace is quicker than 3:45 min/km (6 min/mile) I will buy carbon plated shoes. Until then Hyperion tempo/ Rebel 2 🤘🏻
Carbon plates stop your feet from their normal function. They initially gave me Achilles pain which has now become plantar fasciitis. I have tried them all and have gone back to standard shoes.
The Atreyu Artist !
I would not be able to tell, if it's got any carbon anywhere...
They are very light and very white :-D
They are minimalist and very basic in the construction, and I was concerned if they would be to narrow and/or have enough heel-hold.
After this first run I can say, that even if they are narrow, my wide feet are feeling really ok in these shoes.
The heel-hold is not as rock solid as in my Asics or Hoka's, but better than the Nike's and the awfull Topo's.
Keeping a good speed, the heel-hold is perferct !
And that goes for the shoe in general.
It needs speed.
To describe the shoe I would say its like a race-oriented child of the Asics Novablast and The Hoka Cliftons (wide edition)...
Running slow, it feels unstable like the Novablast, but doesn't suffer from the stupid high drop that the Novablast's have.
The Artist wants to pick up speed, like my Cliftons does and then feels very much like a Clifton+Novablast child.
And thats good !
And it's so silent to run in !
And thats good !
But it's clearly a road-shoe, a distance road-shoe.
I will never bring it to gravel, mud or trials.
Asphalt, concrete and nice, smooth, fine city-park raked gravelpath's is what this is for.
I can feel that the shoe tell's me to get faster for it to get better :-D
Well, it sounds strange, but it actually does :-)
Bad things ?`
Using a heel-lock and all the lace-hole's, the laces are a bit short.
I've been doing carbon fiber plate experiments since the VF4% came out, and posting to a popular shoe forum. It is easy to prove the efficiency gains, just hold a constant HR and compare times. The foam is the capacitor, it stores and releases the energy. The plate helps the foot store the energy on foot strike, and then sets the direction of energy release upon toe-off. As I emailed you, my latest experiment is putting a CF plate in the NB RebelV2, which has turned out better than I expected - really tamed the unstable foam. I think a good general rule of thumb is train in nonplated, race in plated, but train enough in plated to build the muscle strength they sometimes require.
The endorphin speed is as far as I'll go. The feeling when running in this shoe is incredible.
I'm still interested to watch how shoe technology progresses.
Great shoe, look how many people loved the nylon plated speed? 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
Totally agree. My favorite shoe in 2020 and 2021.
You are bang on .. great honest and educated true runners opinion :)
I run in Saucony Endorphin Pro/Speed and the Adidas Adizero Adios Pro. I notice that my average BPM is lower in those shoes, but my 5k and 10k PRs have come using my Adidas Boston 8s. I think high stack plated shoes help in the economy of running as well as taking care of legs and feet. But there is something about low stack shoes that just feel faster, even if the legs are feeling it the next day.
Also...raced a marathon this weekend. Saw many high-end Nikes and a lot of, but not as many, Saucony Pros, which adorned my feet as well. Those two brands really stood out.
My first pair, Atreyu's, arrive on Saturday and you release this on a Monday ($100 though)!
I raced the Austin half with the Artist the past Sunday, I loved the shoe. It didn’t feel as stiff as my other carbon plated shoe - adizero pro. And it is well worth the money!
@@chadliu86 that's great to hear! I did a short, 8k, run to see if they were comfortable and liked the lockdown in them but will need to get a few longer runs in before the actual half marathon in August!
What a great honest review! Ultimately it’s up to us? Amen.
Yes always down to the runner. Some things work but then again the terrain and surfaces dictate a little too. 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
Another good one Ed. I must say, when I saw the description I swear it said carbon plate running shorts.
A brilliant question! I think maybe if you are elite runner , or maybe to improve your marathon result. everything else is just hype.. The running shoe industry has made significant improvements in recent years! And we are blessed to enjoy them.
Gotta be honest Edd, my all time favorites are the New Balance Fuelcell TC. I wish they weren’t so hard to find. My next%s are great...for racing, but the TCs saved my legs on daily runs more than any other shoe. Just seems like they run very easy compared to my other shoes. Love your channel btw, been watching a long time but first comment. Keep it up, and thank you.
Interesting what you said regarding the study about heel strikers. I'm guilty of being a midfoot to heel striker and thought I'd get little benefit because of that but I've seen impressive gains even just using Zoom Fly 3's. Definitely making me look at Vaporfly's for races now I know it's not money down the drain
I am new to running but I am a swimmer, due to covid and closed pools. All my runs so far are easy runs at zone 2, and I increase the distance by 10% after completing 10 runs. My aim is to manage to run a half marathon at an easy pace, just to have a feasible goal to chase. So far, I am more than happy with the Brooks Glycerin 19. If I continue running regularly after pools open again, I will consider investing in a carbon plate shoe if I really need it (PBs) and not for the hype.
Your. Comment about the heelstrikers might benefit the most, are spot on I think. I used to heel strike, and loved the glide ride. Over winter I transformed to mid/forefoot. And now I don’t really like the glide ride, I’m aware of it ain’t a plated shoe. But I think with that glidesole technology it’s more or less manufactured for heelstrikers.
Would you say that the Glideride helped you transition from heel to mid/forefoot?
I guess I fall into the category of being scared to use my carbon plated shoes. I’ve had my Adios Pros nye on 2 months and they’ve only had 2 outings. But what a treat to my legs those 2 outings were. The third will be this weekend for a virtual half marathon event
Very nice and complete view on the carbon plate topic!👌I have seen the biggest impact on injury reduction actually. As an add-on, got my hands on The Artist from Atreyu and they do the job for a lower price.
Yes for me the foams are superb though i incorporated them slowly into my lineup over 18 months 👍🏼🏃🏻♂️😊
Totally agree - I keep my carbon plated shoes (Next% & Endorphin Pro) for races, and use their slower cousins (Speed, Rebel v1, and Fly 3) for Tempo and fast long runs. But 80% training done in non-plated "ordinary" shoes, so that I do notice the difference on the key sessions and races. Current fav for everyday runs is the Floatride Energy 3, so versatile and I just forget I have them on
Great content Edd! 👍
Thanks for tuning in Graham. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Got a couple of pair of Zoom Fly Flyknits ready for when racing returns (half marathon), but I'll certainly be taking them on a couple of practice runs beforehand. My PB was in some Pegasus 35's, which only had 40 miles in them. For a 5 or 10k I think I'd go for something fairly light with not so much stack height. For a half or full I'd suspect the plate giving some rigidity to the squashy foam might help save fatigue in the legs, but I'd only use them in the final stages of prep to make sure they're right for race day.
What a great vlog! I could not agree more with everything said! The shoe companies are just trying to keep pace with one another. I don't train in racing flats and I would not train in carbon plated shoes either (which are designed to be a racing flat)... Other than a few speed sessions to get a feel for the shoe and the drop, it's best to save them for race day. I really like what ed says about the constantly using the carbon shoes as trainers and how your legs may actually begin to get weaker over time. Never thought of that but it makes sense. Great vlog!
Thanks for tuning in Matt 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
It is all about the runners style of running and shaped foot that will determine their shoes. I honestly think shoes do help to a certain degree, but it’s all about the training and hard work you put yourself through that will help you persevere during races.
Thanks for the sharing!
I have no carbon plated shoes. I guess I'm not "good enough" for them yet. 🤔
Could get a pair to try out in the future.
However, I totally agree that for training I should use the "conventional" shoes!
Trends come and go...before these super shoes everyone was all about minimalist shoes and being “at one with the road” or whatever we justified it as back then. The current iteration of high-stack foam plated shoes may also become a passing trend as more runners decide to go back to improving their natural form with more minimal and lower profile shoes. As I am getting a little older however i can see how a shoe like the Mach 4 will help prevent injury and keep me balanced as I do my longer training runs - that is something I’m happy to add to my rotation. No unstable high-stack, carbon plated shoes needed for this (soon to be) fourty-something guy!
I agree with the balance thing. The Mach 4 is right on the line between weight, cushion and stability.
Lots to ruminate on Ed. I try to limit my plated shoe use to special occasions and use the non-plated for the daily efforts so that my legs get the added benefits when the plated shoes are in use.
Very sensible approach Gary 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
Love this video as I am considering trying out a carbon plated shoe later this year. Lots to give consideration to. Have you ever given a review to any Altra shoes? I have mostly been wearing them the last 12 months. Zero drop trainers with roomy toe boxes. Would love to hear your opinion on the brand being the shoe conessur you are
Finally someone making some sense of all this. I run well on ‘normal’ shoes but thought I had to keep up with the trend and bought a pair of Saucony Endorphin Speed. Hated these shoes, couldn’t run for more than half a marathon on them (and I want to run whole marathons). So back to non-carbon plate shoes but still haven’t found my preferred one. Running on Brooks Adrenaline GTS 22 now, but the 21 was actually better. Not sure what to look for next. I like stability and I am not a fast runner (5m20/km long runs). Any suggestions?
Maybe examine the new FloatRide energy x from reebok. Not a full plate. Only on the forefoot. Otherwise the nimbus 24?
If something takes away from the natural gait cycle and foot strike then compensation will occur elsewhere 👌 the next% always give me aching hips after a race, whereas the endorphin pro don’t, I find the pro with that firmer feel make me run more naturally and lift / drive my knee more whereas the next% are so squashy and bouncy I feel my form get a bit lazy.... as you rightly said though, it’s down to the individual runner 👌
I do have a theory on the next %. That is exactly as you describe Andy. The balance between cushion and squash is a slight one. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
It's like punching the wall with bare knuckles or a boxing glove. The cushion prompts you to strike harder. Hips take the brunt of it
@@kierenkd great analogy, love that 👌
@@kierenkd Yes it’s pushing the boundaries. Then we simply meet them! 👍🏼
Great thoughts on carbon plated shoes! I feel that most runners aren't fast enough to really take advantage of carbon plated shoes. While they may provide a 2%, or 4%, or whatever improvement, that improvement is achievable at the elite level (isn't it?). Anyways, I really like your thoughts on transferring the strain of running to other areas of your body/legs based on the shoes that we choose to run in. I think there is huge value in rotating through various shoes and terrane, but I recognize that most don't have that luxury either.
I can say after years of bare foot running, with my work related single collapsed lumbar vertebra, I now need extra help & cushioning whether I want bare foot or not, I am not being clever by not assisting my bent spine through the miles now.. So yes I prefer carbon & cushioning even on easy days, though I love the Hoka Jawz in mud & wet cross country. I am also in the middle of making my own carbon plate shoes, no joke, that should make better use of the carbon spring effect while keeping the hard rocker which I find is crucial in initiating the effect of air cushions & plates in general. I’ll let you know if I can better the next% design despite all the research they’ve done. Eeeeeek!!..;-).
The answer is obviously a resounding "no" (unless, perhaps, you are an elite level marathon runner). But the beauty of the free market is that people can sell it and people can choose to buy it.
I only have taken running seriously for the past 5 months. This means I am running in an era where carbon-plated shoes seems to have become the new standard. In my case I'm just embracing their use as something normal in this day and age.
The composite or nylon plates bit more forgiving for daily training.
It's really cool the technology behind them thinking to try them one day although it's not a priority i have to destroy my last pair of shoes first
I've benefitted by using training to get naturally stronger, so lower stacks, less cush, 0-4mm drop, natural gait cycles, dispersing impact throughout the body. Then using the plate/foam combo for key race tuning sessions and the race itself. And I actually won a race this year!
Agree. I also prefer to use the heavier shoes for my daily trainers.
For me, it's definitely the foam more than the plate. I'm less efficient in the Carbon X 2 with a plate than I am the Rebel v2 without. That said, the RC Elite definitely helps stabilize some of the wild feeling of Fuel Cell with its plate, so I do see them working in harmony.
Edd a very reflective video today.
Ultimately we all know, time and tech don’t stand still.
Your best times have been achieved in AAApro and Nike Alphafly - both plated, soft foam even air unit shoes.
The implementation in this combination is both technically advancing, AND marketing.
The manufacturers are reeling us in with the promise of speed, comfort and an energy return like no other shoe.
Saucony speed - I’m on my second pair - with a third pair ready to start - I ran 500 miles in my first pair to see at what point they became unresponsive - they were causing me injury.
When I switched to the new pair - those niggles disappeared and I was back to comfort and response.
This brand (and others) has made the racing shoe an everyday possibility!
There are other shoes I could run in - but Ive no desire to fatigue my legs with heavier shoes. I’ll chose lighter shoes with no plate and in this regard, you’ve highlighted so many good options!
Great review today - thought provoking!
The fastest runner are the fastest with or without plate!!! The average runner just gets a super feeling while running
I just came back from a first run on the next% 2 and I see you posted this lol! I must say my right arch is hurting a bit, never had that issue before in a shoe. Perhaps it will go away in time?
Great vid, in your research were any knee issues associated with plates as since introducing the speed and RC Elite into my runs last September I ended up having to stop training in November and have only just started again and still not fully recovered. Prior to that I had been rotating my Propel and Rebel V1 with no issues at all!
I think there are many people who have experienced such issues Mark. Glad you are on the mend 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
Roger Banister never used carbon plated shoes just good old fashioned training. The avg runner in my view doesn't really need them, I've seen so many over pronators wearing vapourflys as I'm passing them in my SL20s or floatride 3
Yes they work better for some than others. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Some words a lot of people needed to hear, and might be uncomfortable with, but thank you for having the balls to say them!
The words that make us uncomfortable one day strengthen us the next and inform us the next week. 👍🏼
Said a wise man!
Agree about some of your training in heavier shoes without superfoam or plate, to increase tendon/muscle strength and resilience.
When an elite hits a new record social media shouts "it's the shoes"
but when Dewi says "the shoes give you minutes" before Olympic trials but then runs his slowest marathon for several years, our social media friends never say "Hmmm maybe it's not just the shoes".
Carbon plates didn't help Matt Rees, Andy FoD or Seth Demoor this weekend. They simply do not guarantee anything.
I've been leaning heavily on my pair of Endorphin Speed (rare as hen's teeth over here) of late, since they seem to give me more relief than others for a chronic bit of tendonitis I'm experiencing in the Achilles area. They did seem to take some getting used to, seemingly putting some extra strain on my right knee especially, but the issue has since abated.
I agree about the plates, in general, rather overdone, as most users either don't need them and the marketing angle is taking notice, spawning troves of copies and keeping-up-with-the-Joneses type reactions. What we need are just better shoes, not necessarily more energy return to what not.
Cheers, sir.
I love carbon plate shoes 😍 I have 2 pairs of vaporfly next% and got my third ones today next% 2. And I’ve a pair of pegasus turbo 2 manly use them for my park runs on the grass give the legs a break from the pounding concert running 😁GREAT VIDS👍
Thanks for tuning in. It’s appreciated 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Great debate.. After trying the Hoka Carbon's and the Endrophin Speed's, I have a feeling the benefit is mostly psychological. But I can concede I'm a bit biased because I am an Altra Escalante fanboy
I wish some of these brands would have a few zero drop models. There’s only so many Altras to have.
I have the Atreyu The Artist and Saucony Endorphin Pro and both of them cause pain in the ball of my foot after about 7-8 miles. I also have the Skechers Speed Elite, but haven't taken them past 10km yet. Still racing my marathons in Skechers Razor 3 as a result.
I have those rare ultra slow twitch muscles. Gonna look stupid bringing up the rear in an expensive fast shoe.
No I don't need them because the gains are marginal in comparison to better training, better sleeping and better living in general for an amateur like me. But when those gains are just subtracting seconds and not minutes the shoes could be something to consider. I only decided to buy the Puma Elite after I ran an HM in 1:23:xx not because I need them but as a reward. We all deserve nice things! And I do like the plate feel from the zoom fly flyknit. And let's not forget the confidence gained by wearing 200 credit shoes! Thats probably another minute off a 5k PB!
In the deviate nitro elite I do think the plates help a lot with the stability and the stack height, it's very very very soft. Could we also say the plate in the normal deviate nitro's are redundant? Just a useless adition of weight? I'm curious to your thoughts on this.
Dude, my alpha’s rock! I smile every time I run in them. So for that reason. Yes, yes we do.
I simply enjoy you presentation.
Much appreciated
Bit late for me Edd, my Next% 2 arrive on Wednesday!
In that case yes you do need them. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Yes, they do the job for me (26 years of running here). I run for work 5/6 times a week (1400Km a year), with clients who run from 5m:30s per Km to 3m:30s. if it wasn't for these shoes, I wouldn't feel that enthusiastic when I have to train 4 clients in 24 hours. I would recommend to watch the video published by Doctors of Running: "Do running shoes cause injuries?".
In some of the super shoes I have noticed the plate does Jack all. It’s there to stabilise the foam. In others they got the position of the plate a little different and it does help 100% to create that propulsive feeling.
I think it's a combination of lightness and springyness that wins. The Endorphin speed being a prime example.
The perfect balance 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
I just started running my speed sessions in a carbon plate shoe (Endorphin Pros). Does it improve my top end speed (no), does it help me maintain speed overtime (yes). I can't wait to test them out in a marathon! sub 2:50 here I come!
Good debate, I think companies have tried to ‘shoe-horn’ a carbon plated racer into their collection. Some have been great and others just not worked. The VapourFly’s 1 & 2 for me have worked as Race day shoes, but they will not work for everyone. I have to say at my 1st in-person half on Sunday the start line was full of Nike 4%s, VapourFly’s V1 and V2, AlphaFly’s so clearly many people saying “yep they need them” it’s down to preference, and if they make you feel quicker.
The closest I’ve gotten to a carbon plate is the nylon plated endorphin speed. I keep them for speedier runs. And they do feel fast and efficient. Haven’t gone all the way to the dark side. For the most part foam and rubber suits me fine. I’m a simple man.
Idk about the carbon plate, but I do really enjoy and seem to benefit from my nylon plate.
Have got 5 PBs with my Saucony Endorphin Pros
The only Carbon shoe I use is my track spike. There’s not much difference in spring as much as there is stiffness. However I am still very worried to use them in practice if I forget my practice spikes 😬
After running 300 miles in a pair of carbon plated shoes, I ended up with some strange soreness in places such as my upper inner thighs and the back of the legs right below the buttocks. The soreness eventually turned into what I think was piriformis syndrome. It took me months to get over all of it. I should say that I don't know for sure that the carbon plated shoes were the culprit, but I've been running regularly for 30 years, and I've never experienced anything like it. Surprisingly, the Susanne Somer's Thigh Master actually helped clear up some of the soreness. :)
Glad the thigh master helped out! I think those carbon plate shoes are sold as “fast” when sometimes it’s the quickest way to injury. Glad you are on the mend 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Watching this after taking a run in my first carbon fiber shoes(endorphin pro) 😂
Interesting to see your take, all these years later. I just received my first pair of Super Shoes, yesterday. They are my first Carbon plated shoe, and to be honest, I was shocked in how effortlessly they made everything felt. I am a big fan, now. I have heard they are not great to wear all the time. All these years later, what do you think of the tech now?
I find if you use them on and off you get more used to them and the legs / body adjusts accordingly.
I love the carbon X from Hoka I think they just work for me, also I picked them up for 130€ that’s just 10€ over the Pegasus
Sound advice all round, speaking of advice....is there a 'durable' road-centric Hoka you can recommend? Really enjoying the Rincon 2, but I'm quite alarmed at the rate of wear!
You should check out the Mach-4 great road shoe from Hoka - durability though still tbc
Some research points towards plates aiding in stability so for me I will continue use and buy plated shoes that utilize said plates for stability. Please check out Christy Pollards research out of Oregon State University on impact forces with low vs high stack midsole. As the stack height and offset change so do the impact forces specifically where they happen. Thanks for the great topic discussion. 😀😀👍👍👍
Asics Metaracer is my first ever carbon plate and it worked best at faster pace I think, shoe's quite stiff at slow-to-normal pace.
Asics Metaspeed Sky and Puma Deviate Nitro top of my lists'.
Best non carbon plate is Saucony Endorphin Speed. This shoe is going to be a classic all around running shoe I believe. It's simply amazing.
The speed I believe is a great balance of the stiffness and the forgiving foam. A true masterpiece. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
I'm still very much on the fence. Currently awaiting the arrival of my first pair of plated shoes, so hope they are decent to run in. I use a lot of different shoes in training, and on the trails so only time and distance will tell if these work for me.
The original question, “do we really need carbon plate running shoes”... my answer is no. But these companies are always trying ways to differentiate themselves from others and that’s why we get these things.
Yes I think they try so hard to differentiate but then someone comes along with a brand new idea and everyone leaps on it. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
@@EDDBUD Yes, everyone is obviously copying Nike.
Thanks for the Video Ed!
World Athletics’ ruling of a maximum of 40 mm stack height; coincidentally Nike carbon plated shoes are 39.5.
there has been heavy speculation that Nike was tipped off, but WA claims that’s not the case.
Carbon plates (mechanical doping), absolutely ruining athletics. Middle class runners love forking out for these shoes but grass root athletics now there is the haves and have-nots. It stinks.
I have at least a half a dozen pairs of carbon plate shoes. Recently have been suffering from plantar fasciitis which some runners have said can be caused by these CP shoes. I’m now running in them less frequently, which seems to be helping my feet. I feel some shoes, like the alpha fly are just too aggressive on your feet with such a hard non-flex plate for mile after mile.
Yes to Carbon plate shoes
I like most of them. But mainly for the foam. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Hell yeah.
I love using my 200+ mile next %, alphas, and endorphin pros as trainers , it’s a way for me to save $$$ on the need for “dedicated trainers”, I feel so good in them now..., not sure if that’s good 😌, but so far so good 😊
Good to hear they are holding up so well. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
It's funny you say that Edd. I have the Metaracer for HM with no problems but I find both my Saucony Endorphin Pro and Nike Tempo I can run 12km but by the 14th km I feel a blister coming on the bottom of my little toe on one foot. Defineately can't run a HM in them. Not sure if they are just narrower than the Metaracer or what it is so I defineately would run a good distance in your shoe in one go especially if you plan to do a marathon in them.
I just old man PR'd my 5k, 10k (lifetime) and half in the Zoom Fly Flyknit and Zoom Fly 3. So I'm liking Carbon Plate now. :) Although I only buy late models on discount, and I'm still not as fast as I was in the Nike Lunar racer and Lunar Glide (respectively).
#bigbonedflatfootedrunner
Ran my first, and only, marathon in the Nike VP 4% FK out of the box. Had a perma-grin on my face mile 1 to mile 26. Only goal was to run sub 4 hours and I smashed that easily. I enjoy putting a carbon plated shoe on every now and then to push things but the everyday trainer is my go-to!
I think I benefited from using mine a little bit before hand which gave me some pointers on what to improve with my form. I probably best harnessed them around 6 months later over the half distance. Thanks for tuning in Jim 😊👍🏼🏃🏻♂️
@@EDDBUD I definitely regretted not having a few warm up runs in them but I was lucky to even get my hands on a pair. 2 years later (in SpongeBob voice), I still don't have my form dialed in to get more out of a carbon plated racer. LOL Thanks for all the great content... FC Rebel 2 first run tonight...
Very interesting. I have to admit that I am a "carbon responder", but I am not sure if it is mainly the plate. I just can't run in traditional racing flats anymore, so in my case it seems the cushioning plus the added stability of the plate. A VF would look like a banana after 10 miles w/o a plate. However, the misconception is that there is the best carbon racer - and all those endless debates. If at all there is the right racing shoe for an individual, and as most of us are not running like Kipchoge, it may not be an AF.
Hey Edd, very interesting topic. With what you are saying about them being max cushion shoes with plates, what about doing a test between the triumph 18 vs endorphin Pro/speed on a marathon distance and give us your honest feelings ? ;)
I suspect the Triumph wouldn’t be the logical max cushion shoe he would compare to the plated racing shoes. Its upper is too plush and therefore heavy, and lack a race-like fit. A shoe like the NB Rebel2 is probably a more apt comparison, perhaps even the Hyperion Tempo or possibly the upcoming .Boston 10 if it doesn’t have a plate; I’ve heard contradicting reports on whether it will or won’t. Martha
Running that distance for testing is something I don’t have the time to do sadly. But as Martha mentions above the logical comparison is against the rebel 2 which has a closer lineage to the carbon shoes but without one itself. It works superbly on the half marathon distance the other day. 😊🏃🏻♂️👍🏼
Wow...back to the drawing board maybe.
I like the innoplate of puma. Innovative.. But I am not sure if I feel the foam or the plate.
I've only ran in the North Face Vectiv carbon plate shoes & I do find them quicker but saying that they have a rocker that helps, so is it the plate or the rocker? I'd need to try some others to be sure 👍🏃
I like the nilon plate shoes. The carbon ones usually hurt my calf muscles. I do own two that I have used in marathons the adizero pro and alpha fly.
Been doing couple of very short jogs to get used to Atreyu Artist. Lower calves pretty stiff after that. So definitely need to acclimatise to them. I agree with Edd. It's more likely the foam is the real advantage
I still have the Nike lunaracer shoes. I run just as fast as I do in the hoka rocket x over 5 miles flat out
Personally I love my carbon plate super shoes. The plate stabilizes the foam and ZoomX or Fuelcell or whatever is simply awesome. They' re fun and fast for me.
But that Rebel 2 is amazing and there' s no plate in that shoe at all. So do you need a plated shoe? Maybe not necessarily.
I love the carbon X from Hoka I think they just work for me, also I picked them up for 130€ that’s just 10€ more than a Pegasus
Found them a little too firm for me but I’m glad they work for you. 👍🏼😊🏃🏻♂️
Hmm
I have 3 different carbon plated shoes. The ASICS metaracer, Nike Vaporfly Next% and the Asics metaspeed sky. I find it’s the foam what seems to be the super ingredient.
Spot on Rob. I’m sure the foam is the key rather than the crockery. 😂
I run a 5k tempo run within an 8 miler on Saturdays same route, I've tried Saucony endorphin speed, Saucony endorphin pro, Adidas Adizero Pro, Reebok floatride run fast 3.0, under armour flow Velociti, Puma liberate, and NB fuelcell rebel v2 and the time difference is very minimal but the NB fuelcell rebel v2 is the best for my legs and pace, no plate in this shoe just a good honest shoe, got to be my favourite at the mo.
I agree on the shoe being one that feels rather non assistive. It just feels good underfoot. Not so much that it’s propelling you, more that it’s cushioning only. Does that make any sense?! 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@EDDBUD agree 13 miles Sunday and I was able to pick the pace up last 3 miles and still feel the response from the fuelcell.
Carbon plated shoes are like tennis rackets that gives you a bigger sweet spot.
It makes inferior runners run faster because you get the pop that someone with strong ankles from lifetime of running would get (aka Kenyans)
Do you need it? No. Is it more fun? Yes. Are you cheating? Maybe. It’s a skill that you acquired without putting in the hard work.
So make your own decision.
People have been running marathons way before carbon plated shoes existed, so surely we can continue to run with or without it.
But if it gets you out the door and run, that’s definitely a good thing
Finally, why is everyone so obsessed with not getting worn out from the marathon distance? Isn’t that the whole point of Marathoning? So you can challenge yourself so on a good day when everything goes well, you run the distance and fell great at the end? Why is suddenly everyone want to run every marathon feeling great in their fancy carbon VaporFly?
If it’s no longer a challenge, maybe we should go back to what it used to be and make it more of a challenge.
It’s the journey that makes it worthwhile. The result is just a consequences of our hard work.
We shouldn’t skip the most interesting aspect of the sport!