The Tarmogoyf Scandal
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2021
- The Magic: The Gathering Foil Tarmogoyf Scandal
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Counterpoint: If you draft the Goyf, then the other people can't. Sometimes the best way to defend yourself from a powerful card is to make sure the others can't use it.
Ong
Honestly that Red card they say he shoulda took instead kinda sucks ass in today's standards. 5 mana for 4 damage sucks when Ive a card thats 3 damage for 1 mana. If its not 1 mana for 1 damage, why take it. Goyf seems really good for 2 mana and as you said, he blocks his opponents from taking a good card by taking it himself. If anything he can add Green mana into the deck to play it
Yea I don't understand the backlash here. It's just kinda... wrong. Gofy was busted strong. You never leave that to another player.
True Kaiba moment
@@Rave.- Nah tarmogoyf is only strong in the right decks, we are talking about draft here. By the time goyf comes into play, what will there be in the graveyard? Probably a creature and maybe an instant. 2 mana for 2/3 vanilla is decent but nowhere near broken levels.
If I see a money rare in a draft pack, I’m taking it every time. I’ve drafted enough to know that a card you put in your 40-card deck can just not show up for 9 games. It happens. There’s never a guarantee that one specific pick is going to be the difference-maker, so you might as well take the guaranteed value when it’s offered to you.
Exactly
I can actually where youre coming from honestly when you say it like that it makes a lot of sense
Oh man, flashbacks to the Innistrad 2HG prerelease where I maindecked like 5 enchantment removal cards because there were a lot of nasty ones in the set, then proceeded to draw none of them as we lost to Gutter Grime :P
plus, after that night, you're probably gonna regret not picking that card while if you didn't but didn't place high you can always just say "well I may have not done that well but I grab this beautiful boy so it wasn't all too bad." Rare drafting is such a stupid thing to be mad about
I woulda just said I hate drafted it, bc I knew my opponent was likely in green
Are we seriously debating why Pascal drafted a foil tarmogyf? Anyone in that draft would've taken it, and besides the last thing I want to face off against in a draft is a tarmogyf. It's called taking a threat off the table I don't know how this ever became as big of an issue as it was😂
I actually never thought of it that way but its so true
They were just jealous nerds
Yeah people are jelous assholes, in my playgroup we have a monthly EDH league with booster rewards for top 3. We started 8 months ago. Usually for a second place you got 3 boosters and they could be from different sets, 3 times they were MH2. Last month a guy opened 2 fetches in them. And some people lost their shit and went apeshit because apparently random boosters are "unfair" and we shouldn't do that. And I'm like...dude, for half a year you had no problem and only NOW it becomes problem? BTW, this dude was the one in the first place and apart from 5 boosters, got a precon commander deck (plus we have promo cards to draft for everyone). So yeah, people are stupid.
A very fair point to be made. Drafting is part of the tournament in itself ! Whoever doesn't think it's a fair pick is clearly too rich and entitled to understand what 95% of MTG players are facing when trying to build an impactful collection of cards; it's not cheap!
if it was an expensive but mostly useless card in draft like pithing needle was id understand the out rage but even a 3/4 goyf with mana open would be a MASSIVE pain for a r/w deck and 400+$ in value plus preventing the green player from having the nuts deck is understandable. lets say he passes it and loses to it round 1 people would be calling him an idiot for taking a shock there.
I remember drafting this exact set when it launched. At my LGS we had a very young kid join and his first pack he cracked a foil goyf, didn't take it, and passed the pack. I know some ppl play for value others play for the win, but a goyf is a goyf and it wasn't cheap at the time. Thankfully the dude next to him saw that, grabbed the owner/judge and they passed it back, pulled the kid aside, and got him set up right. Some slight coaching netted him 8th out of 20, which isn't bad at all. It was nice to see that the dude wasn't a greedy bastard.
Other dude was a hero
That’s amazing, not too many people would have done the right thing and not taken advantage of an obviously inexperienced child
That dude was a legend
Screw that crap you snooze you lose!!!
@@BosoxPatsfan603 And you are literally the reason we cannot have nice things.
I would never have drafted that foil Goyf. There is absolutely no way I would have ever made it to the top 8.
It's good to have perspective...lol
I see what you did there...
But if you opened it while ranked 200, that would've been a drastically different story 🤣.
Anyone would take the goyf, there is 0 controversy here.
I would have been like “i guessing im splashing green and graveyard synergies now.” Snap pick.
@@joshuablack3163 Goyf is kinda mediocre in draft tbh. It's good in older formats with cheep spells and fetch lands.
I'd have taken it, not for the money, but for the memes alone. If you don't take it, it's an interesting footnote in the history of the game ("Hey, did you know someone once opened a $400 foil at a Top 8? Of course he didn't take it, but funny, huh?"). If you do, it goes down in legend.
@@JohnSmith-hs9ez Sorry for the confusion; my comment was sarcasm. I understand it's not the right pick, but I like justify my poor decisions with other poor decisions.
The controversy was more the public reaction to the light hearted jabs on Twitter than the picking of the Goyf
You aren't just getting the value of the card, you're also taking a powerful card away from a potential green player. Which is a totally legit strategy. Also, you just pulled a foil of one of the most valued cards in the set live on stream, that's a pretty cool story to hold on to for awhile and have in your binder. Could also sell this particular card for way more than it's worth because it's not just a foil Tarmagoyf, it's Pascal's Foil Tarmagoyf making it all the more valuable.
Not only is Tarmogoyf pretty underwhelming in limited, hate drafting is rarely the best strategy, especially when you could instead take a card that improves your own deck. Hate drafting increases your win chance against a single player (against whom you might not play) while improving your deck improves your win chance against all seven.
It can be worth doing sometimes, let’s say you’ve drafted a storm deck and the pack has absolutely nothing that helps you, but does have a Rule of Law, then sure hate draft it.
That said I’d take the Tarmogoyf for the money in that situation every time.
The argument that he shouldn't have rare drafted the goyf because he already paid money to be in the tournament (instead of saving money by not going) is a sunk-cost fallacy, which is a very dangerous and pernicious fallacy that many people succumb to. You shouldn't consider how much money you already put into something in the past, but maximizing your current/future gains, which might mean completely going counter to how you spent the money before.
He already spent the time and money to go to this tournament. *Now* that he was there, it's a separate consideration: whether and how much a suboptimal $$$ pick would help his expected winnings vs hurt his chance of top-8-ing. Everyone can point in hindsight, but if he had dodged losing to that Burst Lightning and gotten some prize money, no one would give one flying flip whether or not he rare drafted. You don't look at the top card of your library after you lose, and you don't judge a decision based on unknowable hindsight; it was a reasonable decision to pick the goyf and reasonable minds can debate whether or not it was a good or bad decision. Certainly not "brought shame upon professional magic"-level rhetoric.
Pascal Maynard just opened his own lgs here in Quebec City for those who wonder, super friendly guy
Cool!
@@NikachuMTG in the interview you did with him, he is in is shop, the mythic store
Sick lgs, I'm living next to it
More reason to head up north.
@@alexcote4919 WAIT THAT'S HIM??? I've placed a few orders with TMS because I'm in Canada so the shipping is cheaper than Card Kingdom and CSI and stuff, plus I like supporting smaller stores when possible, that's sick. Did not know that. Very cool though.
The thing that confuses me is, those three "friends" who bashed him were supposedly joking around so why didn't they just come out and say they was joking instead of apologizing? Seems like the reason they apologized is because they meant what they said..
..and yeah, a stamped foil Tommy.. woulda taken that any day! Great card to have just to sacrifice one whole card in your deck and with no guarantees of winning anyways, you gotta take the sure thing!
Worse than that, why to make this jerk-joke public? Making it through DM or WhatsApp would dodge all of them a lot of troubles. Sometimes, it’s like people has forgotten the difference between public and private.
Also, the way they all say they are "friends" leads me to believe they aren't like best friends but more like colleges. Something about Maynard's interview & the way he talked about them on that podcast didn't convince me that all 4 of those guys are close.
my wild guess is that the 3 friends intentionally did that to ramp up the drama so that the tarmogoyf could've been sold at a higher price
Pascal was the one who said they were friends.
The other 3 never said it. Maybe Pascal was just defending them some to keep the heat off everyone. They did apologize and there is no need to go through such long apologies if you were just messing around.
Makes me think they actually all meant it at first.
...because they had a huge public platform and probably realised that publically apologizing for their behavior would have the better impact on the community overall?
What if he drafted the Burst Lightning and never made it to the semi finals? Drafting the goyf takes the gambling variable off the table. He ended up top 4 after drafting money...I would've done the same and don't fault him one bit.
MTG is a _collectible_ card game. It's insane that this is even a question. Part of the value of a draft is keeping the cards you draft. 100% draft a card like this.
"Neat Tarmagoyf, but the foiling poses no tactical advantage whatsoever"
But honestly, i can't blame him, i would take it even if not for the money, but to have that in my binder, its a gorgeous card.
Its honestly stupid to say he sold out for it. The Magic gods rewarded him, who are we to judge.
(This is why theres redraft of rares after the game when i draft with friends)
That’s a really good idea!
if im playing an aggressive R/W deck the last thing i want to see is a tarmogoyf on my opponents side of the field. the pick is defendable on those grounds alone nothing wrong with hate drafting a bomb and having a solid chance to get one of those two cards in your colors back anyway.
on top of that, do you really want to have your opponent run a fucking tarmagoyf ? Youn can easily justify this as a hatedraft
Redraft is a terrible thing, especially to new players. I'm not sure whether you're advocating for or against, but your justification is what I've always heard. I know that's why it's a thing. That said, the cards you open are yours, and you are allowed to keep them. The rules say as much, and having a $400 safety net is a no-brainer, from my perspective.
@@bossraider125 All depends but honestly i think not having to worry about value of the cards during the draft makes it much, much more fun, man. I can just worry about getting the deck to function instead, the drafted card is yours later, when you win.
Hmmm Owen Turtenwals seems like such an upstanding and morally righteous man i sure hope he didn't do something stupid like sexually harass women at mtg tournaments.
wait he did? did they also picked goyf while drafting or something?
Wait, there are women at mtg tournaments?
Lol I remember this happening, the amount of people trying to pretend they wouldn't have taken the foil goyf was astonishing
I wouldn't have even thought about it i would have windmill slammed the goyf lol
I opened a foil fetch land in a draft at my LGS one time but we were playing that at the end, every rare were put on the table and the person who finished 1st had the 1st pick, then the 2nd, the next, etc, then back to 1. We always do that, but now we have a new rule: If you open a very expensive card, you can keep the pack and buy a new one. Also, in the end, I won the draft and got my foil fetch!
LGS that does that is sketchy as fuck
"Hey bro. I know you paid to draft and got lucky, but we're gonna take that and use it so we don't have to give out prize money or eat a cost
I could give a damn less whether or not anyone agrees with me just taking the rare because of money. Because I agree with the person who said "some people aren't in a position to just hand 500$ to the person next to them"
To be fair, the Goyf was all but guaranteed in the pack. He wouldn't have made any loss by handing the card over, just no gain. So I wouldn't say it's about the position the person is in. However, it's just a question of perspective.
Taking the Goyf is valid no matter what, I'd personally say.
This controversy is such a BS. Was it correct draft decision? Probably not. Was it a correct tournament decision? Absolutely, picking that was worth almost as much as top 12th (and 1/8th of the top prize) and it was guaranteed money.
Edit: if he gave half of the money to charity like he promised (instead of 3/4) he would earn top 8th prize just from that goyf.
Agree. With 1 card disadvantages its like havin 3% chance to likely lose your game. Its fair..
Plus, are those people not aware of hate drafting? It’s possible to tactically not want your opponents to have a good card
@@danielwandawn3070 And dont forget that you are removing a Tarmogoyf from a potential green opponent.
@@jarpok yep.. the potential %winrate is bigger if opponent green picking it +++ the money.. its not worth.
It's not BS, it's fun drama!
Man, I remember drafting "dead" cards for me because I was never seeing certain quality cards passed to me. If there are very few good green cards making it to you, someone is building that. So draft defensively and make sure they don't get the great card. It's arguably a more competitive move than letting a great card fall to an opponent building for it.
Bro, I'm stuck in bed with the beer bug and I am binge watching! Thanks for all the great videos, you're the best. I feel fine, just have to isolate for a few days
Glad you like them! Get better soon!
@@NikachuMTG thank you, you seriously made this day go by fast. I'm free on Friday! So I got 2 more day of to watch your videos!
From a financial point of view, picking the Goyf is not a bad idea at all. The difference between 5th-8th and 3rd-4th place is 500 dollars, which is just a bit more than what he would have sold the Goyf for; if you're asking "will this pick make the difference between 5th-8th and 3rd-4th place?" the answer is "probably no", so if you just care about the money you're statistically making a good pick.
Now if the question is "should you aim for more than money at an MTG tournament?" I say you're free to do whatever the hell you want, maybe you'll never make a living out of tournaments but you're still free to maximize your gains, either because you need it or because you want it.
It should also be noted that:
- The story behind the card increased its value, to the point I would now consider it a piece of MTG history
- Picking the Goyf might hurt someone else's strategy - I don't know about that specific draft format but Goyf doesn't really need that much synergy to be a decent card
Best comment
I totally agree with the comment about the pick. The card he gave up to take the Goyf wasn't going to be the deciding card that would make or break his deck.
Exactly, and fate had it that he lost to a Burst Lighting, but he could have lost to a Foil Tarmogoyf in a prior round if he hadn't picked it, who the hell knows? x)
Picking that card every day of the week, I'd go as far as winking to the camera for real.
@@bcdfezz every draft decision can make or break a tournament, even moreso than in constructed. Especially with a card like Burst Lightning, which has tons of flexibility and does everything you'd want it to.
If you've drafted a deck with tons of removal, you know how good that can be.
didn he sell the goyf for like 10 grand? its one o a kind due to the stamp
Pascal just show how bad pricepool are. A single card covers almost 50% of top 8 price pool. Lol
I was at this event and it was crazy. It was actually broken up into 4 tournaments if I remember right with 4 winners(basically it was 4 GPs going on at the same time with different code names like kiki-jiki, Iona, etc)
I drafted Jace and a foil Jace in my 2 WW packs at pre-release at my local games store. They went into sleeves, into a folder, I never played them and proceeded to forget about them for a solid 6 years. No regrets, would do it again.
I opened a foil goyf once and the pack also had a scalding tarn. Glad it was not draft 😊
If it was first pack I would just take remainder of the cards and drop out
Some stores, by nature of the high value sets, let you buy a pack and would add another for draft purposes for cases like this one.
My store had a solid counter to that problem if you wanted to keep the pack because value was insane they’d let you buy a new pack. They came up with that after someone pulled a Clique and Goyf in MM1 and insta dropped to not pass them .
Counter picking is a thing too in draft, someone coulda made use of that goyf.
Hate drafting is almost never correct to do if there is a card in the pack that could improve your deck. You only increase your chance to win vs 1 other player, and reduce your chance vs the rest. This is not favourable for you.
He took it purely for the cash and that is understandable and okay, he doesn't need any other reason.
naw goyf is a bad card in draft, it would usually be a 0/1 on turn 2, and doesnt grow to a large max size.
The way I see it, he heroically jumped in front of someone who might be accused of rare drafting in a pro tour.
11:21
lol!!! I recently found this channel; you're a funny guy and I like your videos.
This never gets old. The infamous tormagoyf
would have picked it for the value AND to block my green opponent.
This right here!
Exactly
That's what I was thinking - isn't denying high-powered cards to the other players a legitimate strategy in a draft?
@@vernonmeigs3078 Rarely, and Tarmogoyf is pretty weak in limited.
Like in poker...positive EV decisions pay off in the long run!
This is awesome stuff! Watch your stuff religiously, keep it up man!
Thanks! Will do!
When modern masters 2017 was released, I drafted a game at my LGS. Pack 1 I opened a Liliana of the veil. I grabbed it. Pack 3 I i opened a foil scalding tarn. I was a wreck and drafted the worst deck I've ever drafted, but felt like a winner going home with those 2 cards in my deck box. I'd do it again tomorrow.
Dude to my right shipped a foil Urza to me at a mh1 draft. I don't understand his decision to this day, the card was freaking 220€ at that time. Idgaf if I'll draft the worst deck ever when there's a card looking at me which is worth more than the whole booster box and top 3 prices combined.
@@Illusive1313 hell at that point i draft it for use in an entirely separate format
I love Reid Duke as a person, but I don’t believe for a second this was them just messing with Maynard… the subsequent events make no sense otherwise. Any of those involved would have addressed that. He’s saying that now either because he’s made up with them and helping make it seem a non-issue, or they felt the heat and told him they were playing with him. His apology and their responses do not indicate anything other than they were truly pissed and their tweets were a result of that.
PS, if it was sarcastically rubbing on him that would have been beyond hilarious though 😂
I for one think we should take ALL of our moral advice from Owen Turtenwald, famous good guy.
This video was pretty epic. The shocking twist you revealed halfway in was great.
That was soo funny!! thanks!
Money aside, if he didn’t take the goyf, he could have easily ended up losing to it later on. Imagine being in that position: you pass up $2000 to try and win the tournament….and then lose the tournament because that $2000 card is also very powerful
Goyf is abysmal in draft, probably worse than basic land.
Everyone drafts how he/she wants. Controversy in this case is stupid. You want to pick badly? Your choice.
Exactly
I do understand where they are coming from because I'm all for competitive integrity and this pick goes against that since the pick hurts both him and another player that could have used the card.
However, I don't think you can reasonably argue against him taking the goyf here. I would have done the same, and the vast majority would have as well. Arguing against it just comes off as childish.
Exactly my thought process. I don't understand how you see someone make a choice that objectively makes it harder (albeit not necessarily by a lot) to win a tournament and give them crap for it. Honestly, money aside, I think there's also an argument to be had about the value of hate drafting a goyf away from someone else, but that's just my opinion.
I like how i dont know anything about the game but you explain it so well that i completely understand your videos
Thanks!
That stamped foil Goyf is a one of one card and would sell for a premium over a regular foil Goyf. You take that card every time, get it graded/authenticated and sell for thousands.
I see it as a high risk high reward scenario. He is fucking up a card spot on the deck but if he reached at worst on the top 8 he gets a 50% aditional payout and if he won the tournament its an even sweeter bonus. I cant blame the man but the people saying "i respect the game more" are fucking liars because if they would probably do the same. And why im so sure? Because all MTG players are gamblers to some extent and we like those high risk high reward scenarios and having an easy money cushion its always welcomed.
I remember when this "controversy" broke(my god was it really that long ago?!); I rolled my eyes so hard it made my head hurt.
He didn't cheat, or do anything inappropriate, he just did something that competitively was sub-optimal. These people trashing him on twitter like he came to the GP with pornhub and colt 45 sponsors, and spent the whole event cursing.
This was no big deal to ANYBODY with their head on straight.
Facts, and honestly I’d take that Goyf if I was him every time
Yeah like if he wants to "make a mistake" in his drafting thats on him.
Tbh they should put a rule in pro magic where you could be able to swap the foil counterpart with the non foil counterpart as long as the judge agrees to it and let that person would drafted it keep it to prevent scandals like this one happening.
Yeah like “hey i unboxed this and i got lucky, i take the foil but let me decide for the rest” this way there would be no rare drafting
Actually really funny to see this, back in the original Modern Masters release, I was at a store draft where someone opened their first pack to a foil Goyf and non foil Goyf in the same pack.
Dropped out of the draft right then and there, and absolutely no one blamed him; matter of fact, we all got selfies with him cause, heck, what are the chances of that happening?
Just for the memes, he also went out and bought a lottery ticket (his luck wasn't as good with that though).
The extent of your knowledge on the Magic: The Gathering dramas never failed to amaze me.
I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing. The $$$ isn't good in MTG champion ships like it is in other gaming tournaments. The fact that the card was worth 10.75% of a 3600 person tournament, this makes the most sense to snag up.
Especially if he doesnt do as well as he intended he can at least say he got a tarmogoyf which makes up for it at least a little
It's always so funny to me how Nikachu searches out a MtG video to watch and then is all surprised when the things he looked up the video for happen in the video. ;)
This story is hilarious. I love this content!
I see this as being really arbitrary and petty. Maybe it's because I've only played MTG for about the last 6-7 years, but I just go for the rare/mythics in the pack not because it might be valuable but to potentially blockdraft my opponents from having a particularly powerful card. Or I might even just use it myself. The secondary market value is just frosting on the cake.
Sure, but it's not correct. A burst in the hand is worth 2 goyfs in the bush. Hatedrafting has equity, but it's not comparable to a premium removal spell.
Hatedrafting has terrible value... Its a 1vs7 game, you would need to hatedraft 7 good cards to be worth 1 for you. Its only worth if the pack you are holding has nothing good for you and still its essentially the same as picking no cards for your deck.
Having said that I picked a few valuable cards in drafting simply because its worth more than the few packs you win in small events. I think its an okay decision, I don't understand why he good so much hate
As someone from other card games, I honestly don't understand this, drafting has many levels to it. If you need a card take it, theres many times during drafts where you pull that rare card that's 20$+ and you can't use it to its fullest but that saves you money in the long run, sometimes you pull a high rarity card worth double or triple digits, you're taking that if you know anything about money.
The whole 'honor for the game' shit those people where spouting legit sounds like someone who's never ran a business or had a legit career
I love your videos can’t wait for more
I literally have no claim to MTG, but I’ve been so invested in the last 3 videos I’ve binged and I can’t stop. The tea is so good on these videos ☕️😂
I have never drafted before, but I don't see an issue with it. He shot himself in the foot by taking the card and that was his mistake to make. If he hadn't taken it, would people have gotten mad at someone else who did take it? I believe they would have. Someone would have ended up with it, so it doesn't matter in the end.
First time I ever drafted was MH2. First pack was a verdant catacombs and second was an esper sentinel. Hell yeah I took those cards
Also, love seeing some Cardboard Crack rep. Loved that comic.
with the options in a draft pack being between a common card that will work in my deck (but not a win con. or even a game changer), or a powerful card like the Tarmagoyf, I'll take the power card all the time to keep it out of an opponent's deck
I wonder how much this specific Goyf would go for now with all the lore behind it.
If it's not sold by Maynard himself, probably not much because only he would own one. Someone else could totally make the story up and it's not like a magic card comes with a certificate.. However, I don't think there's another stamped foil goyf so if someone does sell it other than Pascal, chances are it was his originally.
I drafted Modern Horizons 2 earlier this year. in my second pack I opened a Scalding tarn, I took it despite not being in blue and/or red, it basicly paid for my whole tournament and then some. so OF COURSE you take the tarmogoyf! you're an idiot if you don't do it. I know money isn't everything, but when its 100+ $, you don't care what the card does, you want it
Hahaha good story and good job putting it together for us 👍
I would definately drafted the goyf in that situation. The money is one point, but also as hatepick. Imagine your RW Aggro deck seeing a 3/4 or higher Goyf turn 2 or 3 at your opponents board...may need some ressources to get through it. :D
Never apologize to the Twitter mob! For any reason whatsoever! It will never help you and it only shows that you're admitting fault. Honestly who cares what these 3 guys think?
The funny thing is this only got flack because of the financial value of the card. But honestly, it was a fairly good tactical move also. This is draft. Goyf is a draft MONSTER. Taking that, even if it was worth .10 would have been a wise play because a goyf can be a near unstoppable menace in draft. There's a reason it was printed in a draft specific set. Where it thrives pretty hard. Granted he could have easily posed his position as such but then he'd be seen as dishonest when, frankly, we all knew it was for the value (Which I DON'T blame anyone for. You paid to be there and traveled. Fuck it. Take the bills, who gives a shit? This faux 'integrity' talk from the pros feels so fart huffy it's unreal).
This reminds me of a local game store FNM draft where I was playing off in the last round for the tournament win. My opponent (who was one of the highest DCI rated players locally) destroyed me 2-0 then showed me the foil Chrome Mox he opened in pack one. He handed me his deck and said I could have it. Sometimes you chase the money and win anyway.
I would draft it but only if I can mark the burst lightning at the front (disclose it to the table ofc if they're all right with it) so that I can be sure if the burst lightning gets used on me or be my demise
Anyone saying Goyf is a monster of a card in draft has apparently never drafted and played the card. It's just not good with out fetches, efficient instants and such that you'd find in modern.
The internet reacting to that tweet is a perfect example of how stupid our society has become.
People are easily manipulated.
Edit: No disrespect to Nikachu. Love you dude!
Mtg history seems like it has its own lore by itself. Nice channel! Very interesting.
Glad you enjoy it!
If I recall, because it was a "stamped foil", that Tarmogofy was commanding a much, much higher price tag.
Wild how everyone got pissy at the guy taking the 500 dollar card and not the company that keeps a stranglehold on secondary market prices by only reprinting it at mythic in a fancy cardboard- I mean premium priced set. Sure am glad none of that happens in the real world.
Personally I absolutely would've taken the Hgoyf for the meme alone.
Good on Pascal for taking the card. Poor guy was actually considering taking the lightning.
Edit: and taking good cards out of the pool is also legit. It would have been a nightmare to pass it and later see it played against you. In a recent draft with friends I wanted to eat my shorts when I lost to "wedding invitation" that was in my booster. To add insult to injury I could have really used that card in some of my decks. I won't repeat the mistake. You can get a long way in drafts with just sticks. Draft is fun, but gains are forever.
The same happened at my LGS. Was a wild moment and I was furious I wasn’t sitting in his chair. Was a pretty crazy event for our small low income town
I was new to magic and of course was drafting Red.... on my last pack I open a foil voice of resurgence... I still do not know what that card did but I took it instantly!!! I played for free the rest of the month after the comic store owner bought it from me
It's ridiculous that this was a difficult decision for him. That red card was absolutely awful, at being a simple shock or a one-shot 4 damage for 5 mana. Keeping Tarmogoyf, a much better card, from another player is a better tactical decision anyway. And even if it his choice was between a different really good card, he likely will only use between 23-27 of the 45 cards he drafts anyway, because the 40 card deck is going to include lands.
Tarmogoyf in limited isn’t close to being the powerhouse it is in constructed, certainly not worth hate drafting. In addition, while hate drafting can be a viable strategy on occasion, it is often isn’t worth it. Finally, Burst Lightning is not awful in limited by any stretch of the imagination.
That said, I’m taking the ‘goyf for the money every time if I was in his shoes.
@@insekki I dunno If i'm playing red I don't really wanna give my opponent a 2 mana 3/4 that in can grow to 4/5 or even a 5/6.
Goyf can still be absolutely backbreaking in draft, even if it's not as backbreaking as in constructed.
@@Bogster13 one opponent, against whom you might not play and and who might never draw it. For something to be worth hate drafting it needs to be a whole lot better than this. Just taking a good card improves your chance against everyone.
Also how often are lands or walkers or enchantments or artifacts going to the yard in draft? Goyf isn’t growing bigger than a 3/4. While that’s still a good rate in the early turns he’s going to be 0/1 or 1/2. It’s just not that good in limited. Definitely not worth hate drafting over a good card for your deck.
@@insekki I dunno back in Oath i remember hate picking Sylvan Advocate being pretty sure the guy I was passing to was in green. Granted in Oath sylvan was pretty much always a 2 mana 4/5, at least it felt like it.
Granted in MM15 if I open goyf pack 2 I might just pivot to red green instead of red white.
My white would have to be real good for me to not pivot.
I would have picked the goyf 100% of the time. Not just for the money though, but to assure I wouldn't have to face another player who took it. At this point in MTG history, Goyf is safer as a dead card in my hand than a turn 2 5/6 staring me down in a DRAFT TOURNAMENT.
Eh, goyf is usually garbage in any draft deck. Even in Vintage cube drafts where there's the most support for it being strong it's almost always ignored.
i was in a khans of tarkir sealed side event once, and someone dropped after seeing 2 fetchlands in her sealed pool.
9:21 love that burst lightning ended him 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆
Reminds me of the day I opened up my first Underground Sea back in 1993 - it was only a $5 card at that time...
Love ya Nikachu, keep at it!
will do!
I would definitely take it, I have gone many drafts where I might see a bomb in my deck never show up in a 4 round draft tournament. So yeah, it removes a threat someone else could play against you, the burst lightning may or may not make any difference, and it was a $400 card.
Once, at a draft, i opened a pack and pulled a thoughtseize, which was worth about $40 at the time. I then got passed another thoughtseize, then opened an ashiok. Made a nice little profit AND won the draft with the dimir deck fate forced upon me. That is the only draft I remember, and I think i always will.
Nice one. Thanks
Pack 2 foil goyf. Maybe, and I'll try to make some adjustments to accommodate a third color to my strategy.
Me and a few friends did our first draft.
I was doing a dimir ninjas deck, when all of a sudden boseiju appeared. The deck then became sultai ninjas.
I remember popping a worldwake foil Jace the mindsculpter which was 400 in standard. We dubbed him Jace the money scalper, he still doesn't disappoint!
I had the tarmogoyf from future sight. I had no idea of the value until I played it in a game at my local card shop. Everyone wanted to look at it. I sold it before that game ended. No regrets.
1:06 : how is this guy looking at all 15 cards in the pack at once? that's pretty awesome
I opened a Foil Garruk in lorwyns prerelease immediately sold it after the tournament ended. Ironically it was the last tournament I played even I still love the game it is too expensive to keep it up in Argentina
I actually remember hearing something about this, but not understanding what was going on because I had just started playing magic like a year prior. 😂
My brother paid for my entry Into my 1st and o my tournament it was very small only maybe 50 people.
I remember I opened my packs and there was a card that was worth like £90 I was so happy I could give that to my brother to say thanks for paying for me to go in the 1st place.
That's why we are drafting in our playgroup only with cards of one player, so you don't have to make decisions because of money or because the cards fit well in other decks you have
I would argue there was strategic value in taking Goyf IE NOT having to play against it. Hate drafting is a legit tactic and it’s WHY all those players were shuffling the pack after drafting to limit the amount of information they were passing to the next player.
I remember this so well. I didn't know the end of the story. Thanks for the conclusion. Yes. I would have picked the foil goyf. I would have rare drafted third pack. And I would have lost too. Why? Cause I'm not good enough. So I rare draft for fun and to complete my sets. But I do try to make synergistically fun decks that don't win. If my combo goes off... I'm happy.
In a recent MOM Draft i went Golgari rainbow. I got passed an Invasion of Alara then eventually a Jegantha, the Wellspring. The majority of it was a basic Golgari Phyrexians deck.
I managed to pull of Jegantha into Invasion of Alara and even cast Awaken the Maelstrom in game 1 round 1
I went 0-0-3 but still worth it
Etched Champion is one of my favorite Arts!
I have a play mat for Etched Champion and it's so beaten and scarred that it's now my signature when I play.
If I don't have my lucky mat, I dont play...
In a regular tournament at your local card shop you take the goyf without questions. But on such a big stage I would only focus on winning at any cost.
I was at the tournament and opened a foil Bob in my day one sealed pool and passed it.
Man the fact that he got knocked out by the burst lightning is the funniest shit ever. Hope when that happened he laughed as hard as I did watching it.
I'm always a rare drafter especially if it's a new set and I need a card or just want more of a collection. With my skill I'm unlikely to win, BUT if I get 5+ rares from 3 packs I'm getting more then i spent.
Wow it's hard to believe Owen was his friend with such a passive agressive apology even after he got some time to think about it.
rare drafting any day any time , never missed my chance to grab em