There should be a special kind of tournament where only banned and suspended players could participate, where they would only be disqualified if the other player noticed that they were cheating, and not the judge. A tourney where the cheating skills would be almost as important as your Magic playing skills.
I remember playing at an event back in the early 2000's where a fight broke out at a nearby table. Both players got DQd and lifetime bans from the lgs. Apparently one caught the other with an extra card in hand that he knew he didn't have in hand... Because he had a buddy with a mirror showing him his opponents hand, lol
It's unlikely to get a consistent win rate at this game without cheating. Too luck dependant. It might seem like MTG is a strategy game - it is to an extent - but luck plays a huge role - with cards that can one hit your oponent on both sides, it's just who draws their combo first. So it's a coin flip. You bend it to your own favour by doing some light cheating - like shufling or cutting the deck at specific place. It's hard to notice live - impossible with a bit of practice. But this is tournament. Here both players have optimal meta decks with 10.000$ cards with one turn win combos. It dose not hold true, if you play with normal people, who have spent less than 100$ on their decks and play in their own living room. In that case it's simply pay more - win more game. It is fitting that unfair players are the "champions" in an unfair game.
“Don’t want to get called out for cheating better swing at the jace I just gave him like I think it’s dangerous so they won’t think I gave it to him.” Cheater covering his tracks.
@@TheJacklikesvideos notice how he top decked the game winning piece directly after the next shuffle of his deck? He probably planned it all out since he gave him the Jace
In matches like this, when you have two judges watching every move like that... I think the tournament rules should be that the judges do the shuffling. Speeds up the game, with no more waiting for someone to shuffle, let their opponent shuffle or cut the deck, then move on, and prevents shuffle cheating. Normally I wouldn't say that just because too many matches at once for judges to pay such close attention to each one. But they're there anyway to prevent cheating, so...
@@GiantProcrastiNation More a case of suspecting the "fake shuffle" when they shuffle/cut the same way the entire game (split in half, mash it back together) then switch to overhand for only a few select shuffles.
Crazy how 2 cheaters somehow made it to the finals to face each other off. Makes me wonder just how many people who have made it to finals were cheaters just no one ever caught them.
Part of why I don't do organized play anymore. If people are "hard" cheaters, they're "soft" rule cheaters, or attempt to be bullies over the rules. I've had very few civil and decent Organized Play games, FNM are some of the worst pits or these people around.
NGL the thing that gets me about this as an amateur magician is how obvious he is about it; Jared completely changes up his shuffle style to control the Jace to the top of the deck.
One of the reasons i shifted to digital magic. tired of babysitting middle aged men at my local gameshop unable to play a clean game of magic. it takes the relaxation out of it having to just watch your opponent like a hawk lol. this goes for other in person paper card games, just exhausting trying to play having to police every other player 100% of the time. cheating in cards is as common as the sun coming up every day.
It's funny that you said middle-aged men, because if they know card magic they've had years to perfect techniques. I've done card magic for years, and even if you know I'm going to do something I can more than likely do it without you even knowing. Takes thousands of hours per technique, and busking in front of a lot of people. I personally wouldn't cheat, and never had on any game of any kind I've played, but if I wanted to cheat at a card game I have an arsenal of techniques at my disposal.
I will never understand why these players who are well aware that their opponents are shuffle cheaters never say something like "Hey man, could you cut the deck?" after their opponent shuffles their deck. Or why the judges never seem enforce that rule.
These videos taught me of someone cheating. One guy in my LGS that I faced for a casual game of Commander was shuffling his deck *face up* . I caught this and called him out. I even went further and cut his deck after he shuffled so he couldn't pull those kinds of shenanigans off. He was not happy with me about that.
Said this recently in another of Nikachu's videos, but for the love of everything good in this world, CUT YOUR OPPONENTS DECKS! It's not an accusation of cheating, it's a commitment to maintaining integrity in the game. Obviously, with cheaters like these guys, cutting your opponent's deck might encourage them to cut your deck, ruining your cheating (if you do the shuffle cheat), so that's probably why they don't do it. But just...if it's a pay-to-enter event, cut your opponent's deck. Alright, I've ranted about this enough, have a good day, all you honest players.
I shuffle and cut my opponent's deck everytime and when my opponent shuffles without cutting my deck, it gets really annoying. Truthfully though shuffle then cut is the best. Cutting won't protect against mana weaving and shuffling without the cut means your opponent can put a card on top of the deck. So shuffle your opponent's deck at least and make sure they cut your deck if they shuffle, but if they won't ask a judge to cut it every time until they agree to cut it. I just shuffle my own and present but I shuffle then cut my opponent's just to be fair.
Well said. We lose something in MTG the day the judge shuffles everyone's deck. Agreeing to play with sportsmanship and integrity keeps the game light-hearted. A great moment during an event was when my opponent gave my deck a pass after offering it up for cut a few turns. Neither of us were trying to sweat our way to the prize, just having honest fun with janky draft decks.
14:20 I think he attacked the Jace because he wanted to play it off like he viewed the Jace as a larger threat than the life total. "Why would he purposefully put something on top of the deck that he thinks is a threat?" is probably what he thinks the onlookers and judges would be thinking. The same logic he probably used as a counter argument after the match when people called him out for cheating. Without this play most anyone could agree it was cheating that won the game, but because of this one move, conclusive evidence is harder to make. Not to mention the psycho-manipulation that could be used (gaslighting and such) when in conversation that I'd imagine a conman such as this guy would be using to the full extent.
Coming from someone who doesn't play Magic (but other card games and like to watch cheaters so I know what to look for) I am surprised that there isn't a rule in the game where, if your opponent/you shuffles/cuts a deck, they have to do so in a way that keep the cards face down so there is no peeking.
Escapes my mind, how these (I believe) notorious cheaters "trust each other. I mean Alex should ALWAYS cut after a shuffle by Jared. Still what do all the cameras serve for, if not detecting a game winning move upon discovery of cheating evidence?
It's not trust, you can't make the final cut, this is the process from the tournament rules at this moment: Once the deck is randomized, it must be presented to an opponent. By this action, players state that their decks are legal and randomized. The opponent may then shuffle it additionally. Cards and sleeves must not be in danger of being damaged during this process. If the opponent does not believe the player made a reasonable effort to randomize their deck, the opponent must notify a judge. Players may request to have a judge shuffle their cards rather than the opponent; this request will be honored only at a judge’s discretion. You must shuffle and them the oppnent may shuffle, but after that the only think that you can do is ask a judge to the shuffle instead of your opponent, but you are not allowed to make a final cut to your deck, this is mostly because a common cheat at some point was to have some sleeves slighthly smaller than the others with key cards on them, so with a cut you could cut the deck exactly on that sleeve and have that card on top of your library, and usually people cheat more with your own deck that with the opponent deck, so not letting you make the final cut to your deck prevent more cheats on the long run.
@@Buti1986 That's interesting to understand why they removed the final cut rule, but isn't possible to notice the sleeve cheat before by the player/judge, if the opponent can see it when cutting?
@@Buti1986 In that case why wouldnt they ask the judge to shuffle the decks, since they have 2 judges permanently watching them they would have no reason to refuse
@@Buti1986 oh ok thanks for the clarification, I did not know that. Am not a tournament player either :) Well taht goes really far into the cheating process then. Given the danger, and I guess both "know" each other for being cheaters (being the starting point of my concern), I would not let him shuffle my deck hehe
@@dev_innit Well is the same with the cheat shuffle, is easy to notice if you know is going to happen, but in a real game both players and judges are usually focus on a lot of things, the player thinking about the game and the next plays and judges being sure that the game state was correct (and this is a final, when you can have 1 o 2 judges there, try to spot a cheat in a 500+ hundred players tournament with 3 o 4 judges only) so is not that easy to see it. With sleeves was the same, if you have a deck check you may be caught, there are some things you do to see if there is a sleeve that cause a common cut (for example let the deck fall from a couple of cms and bounce on the table, if there is a different sleeve, chances are that is going to cut itself but that point, so you can spot it) but you can't deck check all the decks in a tournament and by the time the final is playing is usually late in a long day you are not doing deck checks any more at that point. No matter what rules you have, cheats are going to happen, the actual ruleset is that way because in theory allows less cheats or make it more difficult (keep in mind also, that if you are cheating on your deck you have full information on your hand and what you need, if you are trying to cheat on opponents decks, you don't, maybe the land you put on top is exactly the land they needed to cast something that is going to be game)
Quality comedy, as always! I wonder if these two even play anymore; or if when they sit down to play casually they still have to be monitored because everyone knows who they are🤣
@@NikachuMTG I know he’s axed from competitive play thanks to your informative videos😉 interesting to think about him playing casually, though: like I said, I would want him monitored by a second set of eyes with an aerial view😂
Why on earth are these guys even allowed to compete anymore… On top of that… Why is no one watching for their tricks they are notorious for?… It’s so easy, make the judges shuffle for them, or force them to cut the deck… Anything other than hey, let’s just let them cheat the same way as they always have…
Judges shuffling grown adult playing cards because they cant handle themselves. If you want to give the card game a bad reputation, that's a good way to do it
I'd love to see a cheater's only tournament without judges or even a mandatory cut, where the only way to get caught cheating is to actually catch your opponent doing it. It would make for either wildly entertaining or incredibly boring Magic, but I'd also imagine half the tournament would be shuffling cards to the top and bottom 3 times a turn.
I was at the open where “burtoncheaty” skimmed a couple of extra cards off the top of his deck while being recorded in the finals. When he was questioned about the additional cards, he smirked and said, “double explore.”
I think he attacked the Jace because his mind had been so focused on it while putting it on top and shuffling his opponents deck. He just had residual tunnel vision for the Jace
Rooted for Alex cause he's at a disadvantage. His skill is completely negated with all the cameras and judges around him. Plus he is playing a more reasonable deck to fight against.
@@braddl9442 Its the kind of cheating a child would try to do in a card game and doesnt take any expertise to spot sadly. Anyone even remotely familiar with card games (ccg or traditional) would consider his excessive fluff shuffling, staring at the bottom card, then changing shuffling style and not cutting before handing the deck back suspicious. Its about as obvious of a cheat as standing up and leaning over the table to try and peek at your opponents hand, why the judges allow it to happen over and over again is beyond explanation. Surely they have shuffled a deck of some kind at least once in their life and can tell jared is not doing an actual shuffle? I hope the judges are getting paid by the cheater and arent actually that clueless and incompetent, if thats genuinely the best they got they would lose in poker to an 8 year old blatantly stacking a deck right in front of their face.
Was at a regular FNM at my local gameshop and I went against someone who stacked up all their lands and then tapped them all at once, claiming to have 8 mama om his mana pool. However it seemed very suspicious so I went against my instinct. I'm not confrontational but I had to ask him to count his lands for me. He did. And only 7 came up. He laughed it off and claimed it was an honest mistake but he became very very friendly afterwords and I had to literally play two games. Manage my hand AND watch him like a hawk. It's so sad how many people also bring cards to drafts and also use proxies.
@@RCTricking Yeah proxies are totally fine. Just have an understanding with the other player that you are using proxies. The one time I played paper commander I brought an entire deck of pure proxies I really took the time to cut out nicely. I brought it up to 1 player and they said "well some proxies are fine outside of tournaments but it's iffy because you can potentially cheat and know when you're going to draw a proxy because the card is thicker." to which I responded "Well the entire deck from top to bottom is proxies on top of commons so there's no way to distinguish them".
i know everyone hates cheaters, but i wouldn't really be watching MTG videos without them. i have no idea what's happening until he cuts in to explain lol
Some of the cards, mechanics got out of hand, imo. They perma ban a mox but then allow things like 15 mana monsters to be played on turn 3, Anhilate 6, with COP? gtfo. lol. Planeswalkers were dumb in my opinion... you get a card that gives you and awesome ability and the cost to play it is .... also a benefit?? lol.
When I first learned to play the game, I was taught the best way to shuffle your deck was to put all your lands together and then count out all the cards into two rows of five piles. I never got mana screwed for some reason so I’d run far less lands than other decks. I later learned that this was called the double nickel shuffle and is most definitely cheating. I wasn’t a great player and I never got called out for it but at the first tournament I ever went to one opponent gave me a dirty ass look after I did it then proceeded to shuffle my deck for like two minutes. Don’t worry, I didn’t steal any wins, my home brew for that tournament was so bad I went 0-4 lol.
If you don’t shuffle enough afterwards, yes it’s cheating. I normally do this after 5-6 games to prevent the mana from getting stuck in one spot. I do it in between opponents, and always normal shuffle afterwards in front of my new opponent. It’s not cheating if it’s sufficiently shuffled afterward. The problem is when it’s 2 cards 1 land, etc is by definition not sufficiently randomized. You know there is a land after every 2 cards.
At locals I played against this guy with a fake leg ... He kept ace cards in his leg under the nub and would pull them if he was losing we caught him by counting his deck list after a game he played spell pirce that wasn't in his deck list mid game 1 ... Disqualified
Always fun videos to watch before I go to bed! I can’t believe he decided to go after the Jace! XD he could have just smacked the crap out of Alex in one turn and on the next turn finish him off!
The craziest part was that the guy who did the fake jace-shuffle was seemingly winning and was just making sure his opponent got no answer. And even if he got that answer he drew a second Emrakul
@@NikachuMTG Well yeah .... Putting your seat belt on is usually unnecessary while driving, you usually never get in a car accident but when you do you will be thankful that you had your belt on .... Better to be safe than sorry , judges should always shuffle the deck
It's really sad that cheating is so rampant in every facet of Magic, either paper or on Arena. It's really a disgrace to the game and sad that so many people suck so bad at playing fairly that they feel like the only way they can win is to cheat. I wonder if they actually feel any pride in their win, knowing how rotten they are at the game and that their win is tainted by dishonesty. Pathetic...
I don't understand why in MTG you would CHEAT in the first place!!! The whole premise is to see how good YOUR ingenuity at putting a certain strategy deck together to see if it will kick your opponents arse!! WHY CHEAT AT THAT??!! I would rather pit my decks that I created and see if I was any good, and if I wasn't I'd try and find a BETTER strategy at putting a killer deck together!! I guess that's just me then....
They cheat because their ingenuity isn't enough. They bridge their gap in skill with cheating. But some people like Alex, I think, just cheated for fun.
I've actually dealt with sales on Bertoncini, and he's not a bad dude. Everything I got was legit, and he was open with all of the sales stuff. He updated me on when my package was sent, even with a tracking number AND video showing he sent it out. It was something like 1k worth of cards. I have no issues as a salesman, but as a Magic player, I can't respect a cheater in the realm of gameplay.
One of the worst things I discovered in 2007 was that some of my friends that I played with at work that went to FNM on the regular...were being taught rules by the DCI reps that were incorrect. I knew this because of how the early Magic Online game worked and my conversations with the DCI in their chat illustrated from questions I asked. I realized it may have been honest mistakes...but it was so disconcerting that I stopped playing shortly after.
It's not called cheating, when everyone plating is doing it. It's just a standard slight of hand skill all players at the augmented players table need.
First time watching any sort of mtg channel. I was surprised by the amazing content and knowledge I’ve gained in just the first few minutes. Definitely subscribed and following and looking to catch up on previous videos. Appreciate what you do and provide.
I played yugioh back then and there was always the opponent shuffling your deck OR at least split it at the end of your shuffle, idk why that’s not a thing for mtg
Change the shuffle rules that opponents or a judge has to cut the deck at the END, and that the cut cannot be a single card or the bottom card of the deck.
If I'm not mistaking, there was a rule change in YGO (back when I played it ~15 years ago) that the last action an opponent might do with your deck, is cut it. So it goes: I shuffle, he shuffles, I cut, he cuts... I think, there should be such a rule in MTG, too.
The rule in Magic is that you shuffle, then your opponent may cut and that ends the shuffle, or you shuffle, they shuffle, and you cut, and that ends the shuffle.
@@Tordek Thanks, I did not know that and though I just looked it up, I couldn't find it clearly written in the rules but according to various threads, this seems to be true. So thank you again for telling me; I really wasn't aware of this.
In Magic you shuffle, then your opponent is allowed to shuffle or cut, but then that’s the end of it. The owner of the deck cannot take any further action, though they can have a judge shuffle the deck
@Oliver No, you can cut your own deck. Like they said, if you shuffle your deck, then your opponent shuffles it, you have the opportunity to cut your own deck.
@@NikachuMTG So you are only allowed to shuffle and then your opponent might shuffle + cut or cut only? Then Tordek and Patrick Lucas both gave wrong anwers here.
Insane that part of his intense focus on the game is figuring out when and where to cheat. even with judges right there and a camera, still goes for it. crazy
On a local tournament I've once made a mistake and played a card with the wrong mana colour and only realized a few turns later. My opponent didn't realized about my mistake/cheat so I had to tell him. I asked him if he wanted the game count as a win for him or if he wanted a rematch. He was cool and wanted to keep playing because he was enjoying it. He was cheering for me when I won the finals and he bragged (jokingly) saying "I let this dude win, so that makes me the real tournament winner".
I once made an honest mistake like this in a Prerelease. I accidentally underpaid for a spell. He didn't notice until the start of his next turn. He then said well you win cheater. I was bewildered. I asked how and he explained, he was right obviously. I then immediately offered to replay my turn to make it legal. We couldn't ask a judge because the guy running the tournament didn't even play magic and the shop judge wasn't there until later. He refused to have me replay my turn in a legal way and instead scooped his cards. I figured that was because he couldn't have beaten me either way since I was crushing him. He then waits until the judge shows up hours later and tells him I cheated on purpose and that I offered no reconciliation to resolve the issue before he left. This was at my lgs. So the judge then asks me about it and I explained in detail what happened but I couldn't prove my innocence because the guy had left and the judge wasn't even there at the time. I wasn't punished but from then on the judge would be inclined to be on notice in case I was gonna cheat again. Honest mistakes are inevitable though so it's just an unfair stain on my reputation and I won quite often which only increases suspicion. Fortunately it didn't hurt me in the long run but it was an unfair rush to judgement. That guy could've taken my offer instead but he knew he was gonna lose anyway and decided to call me a cheater instead of letting us play it out to prove I was going to win anyway. Only a sore loser does that. Proving I would win anyway doesn't disprove cheating but it does show that I was willing to correct my mistake and that I likely didn't need to cheat as I was about to win regardless.
So you're telling me that after shuffling or even touching the deck the opponent is not allowed to cut/split the deck. This is to ensure cards are not stacked to the top like so
We wouldn't have to worry about shuffle cheaters if they didn't change the rules about letting the owner of the deck cut it once it came back from being shuffled.
Can’t have the owner cut their own deck because they can cut to marked cards they want to draw. But there should be a rule that the opponent has to finish their shuffle with a cut.
I once had a pro player try to cheat me during FNM. Why???? He actually shifted one of his sideboard cards into his starting hand. I asked him how many cards he had and he immediately said sorry and shuffled it back into his starting deck. He knew I caught him but I did not call the judge. I told him (and embarrassed him forever) that if the game meant that much to him he could have the win. From that point on he played me fair. What was really disappointing was that I thought he was a friend. Also, bizarre is that he is such a strong player (makes no errors and optimizes every play) that he doesn't need to cheat to win. Bottom line - when you play you need to watch your opponent carefully. Ask them frequently how many cards are in their hands and really shuffle/cut their deck when they present it to you.
Had a guy cut my deck before game 1 with a bridge shuffle so extreme my cards were temporarily bent. I noticed he had his head low and was looking at my cards as he was letting them snap into place.
Now that I think about it, I may have been shuffle cheated against, but in YUGIOH in a tournament about 25 years ago. Dude had 3 copies of exodia and got all 5 parts in 5 turns. I almost won since I had 3 blue eyes out, would of finished them off next turn. For an explanation, the tournament rules followed season 1 rules of the show as sacrificing was not a requirement yet and exodia wasnt banned yet. Season 2 got 80% of my deck banned/restricted such as Monster Reborn and Black Hole. I left YUGIOH after that since I would have to buy more cards to make a new deck to fit the new rules.
I had someone sneak a rare into their draft deck from an earlier draft. They also coincidentally drafted the same in that draft. I thought it was really suspicious when they drew that rare early in both of our games and he told me it was because he had two of them. I called s judge over and asked if they could check how many rares were in the combined card pool between everyone and this guy's face went red and he got mad. The judge waited until the end of the round and did so and he got DQ'd
From a judge to everyone complaining about shuffle cheating at their LGS: Always shuffle your opponent's deck after they do, and always cut it. The rules REQUIRE your opponent to allow you to shuffle AFTER they do and vice versa. If they take exception to it, call the judge. If there's no judge, complain to the store owner and tell them to use a judge for their events. If the store owner doesn't care, there isn't much you can do. But as far as the rules are concerned, every time you shuffle your deck, your opp gets to shuffle it after you do. As a point of contention, ask them to cut after they shuffle if they don't, and make it a habit of your own to cut after you shuffle theirs. If they complain that your method of shuffling damages the cards, tell them not to play those cards. Cards get damaged when they get shuffled, that's life.
This is why in many TCGs, like Pokemon or Yugioh, when you let your opponent shuffle or cut after your shuffle, YOU get to cut the deck if THEY shuffle instead of cut. Should be the same in Magic - if you offer cut, but they shuffle, YOU cut.
Perhaps Jared misread one of Alex's cards and thought it was a Near Death Experience and so didn't want him to go down to 1 life. It's only slightly more unlikely than what actually happened.
This is why I'd rather play these types of games online. Having to pay attention to every movement your opponent does just to make sure you aren't getting fucked over is not fun. (Obviously this ignores other reason I prefer digital versions. Where I live there aren't many if any gameshops and even if you order online to get your cards finding people to play with isn't easy. So more and more card games offering digital versions of their games has been a godsend for me)
If im playing against a known shuffle cheater, every time hes done shuffling my cards and hands them back I would then insist he cut the deck fully, twice, before I touch it again.
I sure do miss this game, was State Champion and won two PTQ, one in Dallas with FoW Oath of druids and one in New Orleans with ...EDIT....New Orleans was a Trade/Awakening deck not living death This was so long ago before i was married, I miss it. Now I will have to get my collection out of the attic and teach my wife to play, thanks UA-cam feed for popping this video onto my feed at 4AM
The two kinds of cheaters represented perfectly here. The one that cheats despite being good enough to get there without it and the other one that cheats because he would never get there without it.
I mean anyone who's played in a large tournament understands the appeal of cheating. I played in a 10 round yugioh event the other day and got lucky, ended up going X-1. But every time I was in a losing position it felt bad, and out of my last 7 opponent's only 3 of them were able to deal with the loss in anything resembling a calm manner. Hell my last round opponent threatened to beat me up after I offered a hand shake after the match. Apparently he had been activating a card effect illegally all day that the judges had warned him about several times, I don't if he would have tried it against me or not because I preemptively asked about the ruling before the activation window was correct for it, so I guess he knew I knew the right ruling.
@@shawnjavery I totally understand the appeal and reasoning, but it, in its entirety, gives wins to people that don’t deserve it and takes away from those that do. It’s just such a shitty thing to have to acknowledge, not to mention in pretty much every TCG.
I have to give you my thanks. Thanks to these kind if videos you do I've actually caught several shuffle cheaters and managed to win 1 yugioh tournament becuase of it thankyou :).
There should be a special kind of tournament where only banned and suspended players could participate, where they would only be disqualified if the other player noticed that they were cheating, and not the judge. A tourney where the cheating skills would be almost as important as your Magic playing skills.
WOTC being honest about their pro players for once.
Jeremy and Travis Woo gonna be the only honest players but they have to not get kicked out of the venue for spouting racial slurs
This is a great idea lol I'd pay to see it.
God I would pay to watch that
honestly that’d be pretty funny
I remember playing at an event back in the early 2000's where a fight broke out at a nearby table. Both players got DQd and lifetime bans from the lgs. Apparently one caught the other with an extra card in hand that he knew he didn't have in hand... Because he had a buddy with a mirror showing him his opponents hand, lol
"What was I supposed to do - call him for cheating better than me, in front of the others?" -Doyle from The Sting
lol
Fucking fantastic
Why is this the most Yu-gi-oh anime BS i've ever heard?
It's unlikely to get a consistent win rate at this game without cheating. Too luck dependant. It might seem like MTG is a strategy game - it is to an extent - but luck plays a huge role - with cards that can one hit your oponent on both sides, it's just who draws their combo first. So it's a coin flip. You bend it to your own favour by doing some light cheating - like shufling or cutting the deck at specific place. It's hard to notice live - impossible with a bit of practice. But this is tournament. Here both players have optimal meta decks with 10.000$ cards with one turn win combos. It dose not hold true, if you play with normal people, who have spent less than 100$ on their decks and play in their own living room.
In that case it's simply pay more - win more game. It is fitting that unfair players are the "champions" in an unfair game.
"Always two there are, no more, no less, a master and an apprentice."
“And you are no longer my apprentice”
But which one was destroyed? Master or the apprentice
@@sebastianhautasaari2840 it was actually your mom
"only sith deal in absolutes" plot hole lol
What about the rule of one
“Don’t want to get called out for cheating better swing at the jace I just gave him like I think it’s dangerous so they won’t think I gave it to him.” Cheater covering his tracks.
Lol, I like this theory
EXACTLY what I was about to say
this is definitely what happened. logic broke on his bias towards distorting the truth.
It most definitely was an attempt at track covering, judges there irl etc. Was his best attempt but can't outdo cameras and nikachus eyes!
@@TheJacklikesvideos notice how he top decked the game winning piece directly after the next shuffle of his deck? He probably planned it all out since he gave him the Jace
In matches like this, when you have two judges watching every move like that... I think the tournament rules should be that the judges do the shuffling. Speeds up the game, with no more waiting for someone to shuffle, let their opponent shuffle or cut the deck, then move on, and prevents shuffle cheating.
Normally I wouldn't say that just because too many matches at once for judges to pay such close attention to each one. But they're there anyway to prevent cheating, so...
At the very least if a judge sees shuffling after the opponent shuffles or declines to shuffle the judge should cut the deck
@@GiantProcrastiNation More a case of suspecting the "fake shuffle" when they shuffle/cut the same way the entire game (split in half, mash it back together) then switch to overhand for only a few select shuffles.
It’s simple really every time a deck is shuffled by either player. The deck must be cut by the other player before a card is drawn.
@@Mastblood well then shuffle cheat put a card you know would be really good for them at the top. Now you have garnered they won't draw it
@@GiantProcrastiNation eh sure…. But often times there will be more than one copy of that card and you could just cut straight too it.
Crazy how 2 cheaters somehow made it to the finals to face each other off.
Makes me wonder just how many people who have made it to finals were cheaters just no one ever caught them.
Probably all of them. Who is going to win the cheater or the honest player that just knows his stuff?
yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
that's actually a running joke. there have been several championships stripped after the fact
really says alot about the game and these apparently dogshit judges =|
Part of why I don't do organized play anymore. If people are "hard" cheaters, they're "soft" rule cheaters, or attempt to be bullies over the rules. I've had very few civil and decent Organized Play games, FNM are some of the worst pits or these people around.
NGL the thing that gets me about this as an amateur magician is how obvious he is about it; Jared completely changes up his shuffle style to control the Jace to the top of the deck.
It is said that these two later learned the Fusion Dance and promptly transformed into Mike Long.
who?
@@stephenkeeffe8872 you must be new
Lmao! I wish I woulda thought of that one!
Remember when Mark Rosewater fully endorsed Mike Long for Hall of Fame vote? Yeah.
I think Mike Long is older than these guys.
One of the reasons i shifted to digital magic. tired of babysitting middle aged men at my local gameshop unable to play a clean game of magic. it takes the relaxation out of it having to just watch your opponent like a hawk lol. this goes for other in person paper card games, just exhausting trying to play having to police every other player 100% of the time. cheating in cards is as common as the sun coming up every day.
its funny because most of the "pro" players are no where to be found on the arena leader boards because they cant cheat anymore.
@@marcusanthony9322 or maybe cause arena is a terrible program and a waste of time so they all play mtgo xD
There's always the casual EDH format
It's funny that you said middle-aged men, because if they know card magic they've had years to perfect techniques. I've done card magic for years, and even if you know I'm going to do something I can more than likely do it without you even knowing. Takes thousands of hours per technique, and busking in front of a lot of people. I personally wouldn't cheat, and never had on any game of any kind I've played, but if I wanted to cheat at a card game I have an arsenal of techniques at my disposal.
@@chrismc3744 That's so cool man. I'm glad you could cheat if you wanted to.
I will never understand why these players who are well aware that their opponents are shuffle cheaters never say something like "Hey man, could you cut the deck?" after their opponent shuffles their deck. Or why the judges never seem enforce that rule.
The judges don't "enforce" it because it's optional. You are allowed to ask a judge to cut your deck if you think your opponent is cheating.
I'm pretty sure they weren't well known cheaters until _after_ they were caught, at which point they won't be playing anymore for a while.
@@Bluhbear as everyone knows, judges get special powers and can see into the future :D
(wait a second...)
Well the judges are blind they are also literally watching this
@@TaIathar which was the point. The guy is a known shuffle cheater
These videos taught me of someone cheating. One guy in my LGS that I faced for a casual game of Commander was shuffling his deck *face up* . I caught this and called him out. I even went further and cut his deck after he shuffled so he couldn't pull those kinds of shenanigans off. He was not happy with me about that.
Of course! Because you caught on to their scheme
@@NikachuMTG thanks. Funny I caught him cheating before the game even started
Commander, the game where opponents always have dual land, sol ring and crypt in their starting hands
Always cut the cards
He didn't like the deck getting cut? The LGS I go to that's standard procedure anytime the deck is shuffled. The weirder the cut the better.
Love the cheater vids because you can learn how to spot one as well as watching an entertaining video
Said this recently in another of Nikachu's videos, but for the love of everything good in this world, CUT YOUR OPPONENTS DECKS! It's not an accusation of cheating, it's a commitment to maintaining integrity in the game. Obviously, with cheaters like these guys, cutting your opponent's deck might encourage them to cut your deck, ruining your cheating (if you do the shuffle cheat), so that's probably why they don't do it. But just...if it's a pay-to-enter event, cut your opponent's deck. Alright, I've ranted about this enough, have a good day, all you honest players.
I shuffle and cut my opponent's deck everytime and when my opponent shuffles without cutting my deck, it gets really annoying. Truthfully though shuffle then cut is the best. Cutting won't protect against mana weaving and shuffling without the cut means your opponent can put a card on top of the deck. So shuffle your opponent's deck at least and make sure they cut your deck if they shuffle, but if they won't ask a judge to cut it every time until they agree to cut it. I just shuffle my own and present but I shuffle then cut my opponent's just to be fair.
Well said. We lose something in MTG the day the judge shuffles everyone's deck. Agreeing to play with sportsmanship and integrity keeps the game light-hearted.
A great moment during an event was when my opponent gave my deck a pass after offering it up for cut a few turns. Neither of us were trying to sweat our way to the prize, just having honest fun with janky draft decks.
😅
14:20 I think he attacked the Jace because he wanted to play it off like he viewed the Jace as a larger threat than the life total. "Why would he purposefully put something on top of the deck that he thinks is a threat?" is probably what he thinks the onlookers and judges would be thinking. The same logic he probably used as a counter argument after the match when people called him out for cheating. Without this play most anyone could agree it was cheating that won the game, but because of this one move, conclusive evidence is harder to make. Not to mention the psycho-manipulation that could be used (gaslighting and such) when in conversation that I'd imagine a conman such as this guy would be using to the full extent.
this seems most plausible. playing dumb is always meta.
@@ZacksEnder playing dumb is the smartest move
I like to imagine how much self-righteous anger they had when they realize the other person won by cheating.
Coming from someone who doesn't play Magic (but other card games and like to watch cheaters so I know what to look for) I am surprised that there isn't a rule in the game where, if your opponent/you shuffles/cuts a deck, they have to do so in a way that keep the cards face down so there is no peeking.
Escapes my mind, how these (I believe) notorious cheaters "trust each other. I mean Alex should ALWAYS cut after a shuffle by Jared. Still what do all the cameras serve for, if not detecting a game winning move upon discovery of cheating evidence?
It's not trust, you can't make the final cut, this is the process from the tournament rules at this moment:
Once the deck is randomized, it must be presented to an opponent. By this action, players state that their decks are
legal and randomized. The opponent may then shuffle it additionally. Cards and sleeves must not be in danger of
being damaged during this process. If the opponent does not believe the player made a reasonable effort to
randomize their deck, the opponent must notify a judge. Players may request to have a judge shuffle their cards
rather than the opponent; this request will be honored only at a judge’s discretion.
You must shuffle and them the oppnent may shuffle, but after that the only think that you can do is ask a judge to the shuffle instead of your opponent, but you are not allowed to make a final cut to your deck, this is mostly because a common cheat at some point was to have some sleeves slighthly smaller than the others with key cards on them, so with a cut you could cut the deck exactly on that sleeve and have that card on top of your library, and usually people cheat more with your own deck that with the opponent deck, so not letting you make the final cut to your deck prevent more cheats on the long run.
@@Buti1986 That's interesting to understand why they removed the final cut rule, but isn't possible to notice the sleeve cheat before by the player/judge, if the opponent can see it when cutting?
@@Buti1986 In that case why wouldnt they ask the judge to shuffle the decks, since they have 2 judges permanently watching them they would have no reason to refuse
@@Buti1986 oh ok thanks for the clarification, I did not know that. Am not a tournament player either :) Well taht goes really far into the cheating process then. Given the danger, and I guess both "know" each other for being cheaters (being the starting point of my concern), I would not let him shuffle my deck hehe
@@dev_innit Well is the same with the cheat shuffle, is easy to notice if you know is going to happen, but in a real game both players and judges are usually focus on a lot of things, the player thinking about the game and the next plays and judges being sure that the game state was correct (and this is a final, when you can have 1 o 2 judges there, try to spot a cheat in a 500+ hundred players tournament with 3 o 4 judges only) so is not that easy to see it.
With sleeves was the same, if you have a deck check you may be caught, there are some things you do to see if there is a sleeve that cause a common cut (for example let the deck fall from a couple of cms and bounce on the table, if there is a different sleeve, chances are that is going to cut itself but that point, so you can spot it) but you can't deck check all the decks in a tournament and by the time the final is playing is usually late in a long day you are not doing deck checks any more at that point.
No matter what rules you have, cheats are going to happen, the actual ruleset is that way because in theory allows less cheats or make it more difficult (keep in mind also, that if you are cheating on your deck you have full information on your hand and what you need, if you are trying to cheat on opponents decks, you don't, maybe the land you put on top is exactly the land they needed to cast something that is going to be game)
Quality comedy, as always! I wonder if these two even play anymore; or if when they sit down to play casually they still have to be monitored because everyone knows who they are🤣
Alex is banned for life but word on the street is that he still plays.
@@NikachuMTG I know he’s axed from competitive play thanks to your informative videos😉 interesting to think about him playing casually, though: like I said, I would want him monitored by a second set of eyes with an aerial view😂
@@NikachuMTG well hed be no good at Arena, as far as we know you cant cheat in that
@@marcusanthony9322 There is a weird stall exploit that could be performed.
@@marcusanthony9322 He'd probably use an IP sniffer and DDOS his opponents
Why on earth are these guys even allowed to compete anymore… On top of that… Why is no one watching for their tricks they are notorious for?… It’s so easy, make the judges shuffle for them, or force them to cut the deck… Anything other than hey, let’s just let them cheat the same way as they always have…
This is a pretty old video. Alex did get banned for life. Jared got banned then unbanned a few years ago
@@NikachuMTG Love ya Nikachu!
Judges shuffling grown adult playing cards because they cant handle themselves. If you want to give the card game a bad reputation, that's a good way to do it
Super informational, to the point that even a non-MTG player can understand a fraction. Good stuff.
0:13 At the time of the match, he was only banned once, as far as I remember.
Jared accomplished something spectacular that game... He made me cheer for Alex Bertoncini.
me tooo, i wanted alex to win
Same. It looked like he was actually playing a fair game that game too
From what I've seen over the different videos, Jared is GREAT at sleight of hand, but HORRIBLE at magic
I'd love to see a cheater's only tournament without judges or even a mandatory cut, where the only way to get caught cheating is to actually catch your opponent doing it. It would make for either wildly entertaining or incredibly boring Magic, but I'd also imagine half the tournament would be shuffling cards to the top and bottom 3 times a turn.
alternatively, everyone is allowed to cheat but no one is allowed to call their opponent out on it. Only the judges can catch you.
@@NikachuMTG villain ? its a just a couple of donkeys
@@NikachuMTG Ah good, the judge is outside smoking. Time to double nickle my deck and stick all my side board cards under my thigh.
I was at the open where “burtoncheaty” skimmed a couple of extra cards off the top of his deck while being recorded in the finals. When he was questioned about the additional cards, he smirked and said, “double explore.”
I think he attacked the Jace because his mind had been so focused on it while putting it on top and shuffling his opponents deck. He just had residual tunnel vision for the Jace
Rooted for Alex cause he's at a disadvantage. His skill is completely negated with all the cameras and judges around him. Plus he is playing a more reasonable deck to fight against.
Jareds cheating should also be negated by judges and cameras but i guess they just dont care
@@Lilybun that is the problem. WOTC really should have been going over footage like that with Casino style experts.
@@braddl9442 Its the kind of cheating a child would try to do in a card game and doesnt take any expertise to spot sadly. Anyone even remotely familiar with card games (ccg or traditional) would consider his excessive fluff shuffling, staring at the bottom card, then changing shuffling style and not cutting before handing the deck back suspicious. Its about as obvious of a cheat as standing up and leaning over the table to try and peek at your opponents hand, why the judges allow it to happen over and over again is beyond explanation. Surely they have shuffled a deck of some kind at least once in their life and can tell jared is not doing an actual shuffle?
I hope the judges are getting paid by the cheater and arent actually that clueless and incompetent, if thats genuinely the best they got they would lose in poker to an 8 year old blatantly stacking a deck right in front of their face.
Was at a regular FNM at my local gameshop and I went against someone who stacked up all their lands and then tapped them all at once, claiming to have 8 mama om his mana pool. However it seemed very suspicious so I went against my instinct. I'm not confrontational but I had to ask him to count his lands for me. He did. And only 7 came up. He laughed it off and claimed it was an honest mistake but he became very very friendly afterwords and I had to literally play two games. Manage my hand AND watch him like a hawk. It's so sad how many people also bring cards to drafts and also use proxies.
Take is great until you get to proxies. Cardboard should not be that expensive IMO
@@RCTricking Yeah proxies are totally fine. Just have an understanding with the other player that you are using proxies. The one time I played paper commander I brought an entire deck of pure proxies I really took the time to cut out nicely. I brought it up to 1 player and they said "well some proxies are fine outside of tournaments but it's iffy because you can potentially cheat and know when you're going to draw a proxy because the card is thicker." to which I responded "Well the entire deck from top to bottom is proxies on top of commons so there's no way to distinguish them".
It's interesting that the cheaters don't even catch each other in the act that easily.
i know everyone hates cheaters, but i wouldn't really be watching MTG videos without them. i have no idea what's happening until he cuts in to explain lol
I was hoping one cheat would get angry and accuse the other. Ah well!
Shoutout to the honest players cheated off the podium
You know this game was actually super interesting up until cheating occurred
Some of the cards, mechanics got out of hand, imo. They perma ban a mox but then allow things like 15 mana monsters to be played on turn 3, Anhilate 6, with COP? gtfo. lol. Planeswalkers were dumb in my opinion... you get a card that gives you and awesome ability and the cost to play it is .... also a benefit?? lol.
I love the music edited in, makes it seem like some sort of gambling anime where both players have to cheat to win or lose their fingers or something.
When I first learned to play the game, I was taught the best way to shuffle your deck was to put all your lands together and then count out all the cards into two rows of five piles. I never got mana screwed for some reason so I’d run far less lands than other decks. I later learned that this was called the double nickel shuffle and is most definitely cheating. I wasn’t a great player and I never got called out for it but at the first tournament I ever went to one opponent gave me a dirty ass look after I did it then proceeded to shuffle my deck for like two minutes. Don’t worry, I didn’t steal any wins, my home brew for that tournament was so bad I went 0-4 lol.
People sadly do many variations of this. I tend to shuffle my opponents deck to three piles or two piles to counter this. Or used to anyway.
If you don’t shuffle enough afterwards, yes it’s cheating. I normally do this after 5-6 games to prevent the mana from getting stuck in one spot. I do it in between opponents, and always normal shuffle afterwards in front of my new opponent. It’s not cheating if it’s sufficiently shuffled afterward. The problem is when it’s 2 cards 1 land, etc is by definition not sufficiently randomized. You know there is a land after every 2 cards.
At locals I played against this guy with a fake leg ... He kept ace cards in his leg under the nub and would pull them if he was losing we caught him by counting his deck list after a game he played spell pirce that wasn't in his deck list mid game 1 ... Disqualified
The fact that these players aren't banned from competition diminishes MTG as a competition game.
Watching this I can’t help but wonder how awesome this matchup could have been if the two people playing it weren’t cheating
Always fun videos to watch before I go to bed! I can’t believe he decided to go after the Jace! XD he could have just smacked the crap out of Alex in one turn and on the next turn finish him off!
The craziest part was that the guy who did the fake jace-shuffle was seemingly winning and was just making sure his opponent got no answer. And even if he got that answer he drew a second Emrakul
Although, an answer in the form of removal for Sneak Attack would put a damper on things
A cheater and a broncos fan what a lose lose situation
Magic tournaments have become nothing more than an event where magicians practice their craft.
Cheaters having to play being watched and unable to cheat looks like they were trying not to poop their pants the entire time.
Catching cheaters is my new UA-cam kick
I don't understand why the judges don't cut the decks themselves after each shuffle to prevent shuffle cheating.
It’s usually not necessary.
@@NikachuMTG Well yeah .... Putting your seat belt on is usually unnecessary while driving, you usually never get in a car accident but when you do you will be thankful that you had your belt on .... Better to be safe than sorry , judges should always shuffle the deck
Anyone can say what they want, this was the greatest era of magic of all time. Great players being commentated on by great players.
It's really sad that cheating is so rampant in every facet of Magic, either paper or on Arena. It's really a disgrace to the game and sad that so many people suck so bad at playing fairly that they feel like the only way they can win is to cheat. I wonder if they actually feel any pride in their win, knowing how rotten they are at the game and that their win is tainted by dishonesty. Pathetic...
I'm rooting for the cheater to win.
Hope he wins.
I don't understand why in MTG you would CHEAT in the first place!!! The whole premise is to see how good YOUR ingenuity at putting a certain strategy deck together to see if it will kick your opponents arse!! WHY CHEAT AT THAT??!! I would rather pit my decks that I created and see if I was any good, and if I wasn't I'd try and find a BETTER strategy at putting a killer deck together!! I guess that's just me then....
They cheat because their ingenuity isn't enough. They bridge their gap in skill with cheating. But some people like Alex, I think, just cheated for fun.
What really irks me with these cheaters is that even if they didn't cheat, they would still be great players.
I know, it’s so weird. Why not play fair.
"Great" or just a normal day 2er in a GP?
This guy looks like all the characters in Ferris Beulers day off wrapped into one character.
Who else saw the thumbnail and already knew who that was?
Good Ole berto-cheaty
I love these vids, as someone new to MTG, but please I am begging you, just put no music instead of that awful music you always use. PLEASE.
I've actually dealt with sales on Bertoncini, and he's not a bad dude. Everything I got was legit, and he was open with all of the sales stuff. He updated me on when my package was sent, even with a tracking number AND video showing he sent it out. It was something like 1k worth of cards. I have no issues as a salesman, but as a Magic player, I can't respect a cheater in the realm of gameplay.
At least he's not a complete scum bag, just a guy who wants to feel superior In a cardboard tournament lol.
One of the worst things I discovered in 2007 was that some of my friends that I played with at work that went to FNM on the regular...were being taught rules by the DCI reps that were incorrect. I knew this because of how the early Magic Online game worked and my conversations with the DCI in their chat illustrated from questions I asked. I realized it may have been honest mistakes...but it was so disconcerting that I stopped playing shortly after.
It's almost like brainstorm is used by every cheater in almost every legacy deck...
It's almost like brainstorm is used in almost every legacy deck...
Its literally the brainstorm format dude brainstorm definitely doesn't equal cheater.
It's not called cheating, when everyone plating is doing it. It's just a standard slight of hand skill all players at the augmented players table need.
This reveals that we need a rules change. No more shuffling your opponents deck to cut.
@4:12 Why is there a white van in the background of this very empty convention hall?
Gotta be a vendor cleaning up
For any level of competition where a table-judge is present, players should be allowed to request that a judge cut a deck after its been shuffled.
I absolutely love this videos from you sir, your facial expressions are perfect 😂
These*
One of my favourite MTG video titles of all time. I also love how the announcers in these videos are always so clueless and blown away lol
Love your MTG cheater videos! You always give great commentary and explanations
thanks!
First time watching any sort of mtg channel. I was surprised by the amazing content and knowledge I’ve gained in just the first few minutes. Definitely subscribed and following and looking to catch up on previous videos. Appreciate what you do and provide.
Welcome aboard! Are you a MTG player but just never watched content on UA-cam?
How were these two allowed to get this far in the tournament?
The look on your face 10:17 🤣 you kill me man!
at this point they need to stop allowing players to touch their own cards 😂
It's called Arena, or MTGO.
I played yugioh back then and there was always the opponent shuffling your deck OR at least split it at the end of your shuffle, idk why that’s not a thing for mtg
So can you ask your opponent to cut your deck after they shuffle it to stop that cheat?
Yes, and if they refuse you can call a judge to get them to do it.
Change the shuffle rules that opponents or a judge has to cut the deck at the END, and that the cut cannot be a single card or the bottom card of the deck.
If I'm not mistaking, there was a rule change in YGO (back when I played it ~15 years ago) that the last action an opponent might do with your deck, is cut it. So it goes: I shuffle, he shuffles, I cut, he cuts...
I think, there should be such a rule in MTG, too.
The rule in Magic is that you shuffle, then your opponent may cut and that ends the shuffle, or you shuffle, they shuffle, and you cut, and that ends the shuffle.
@@Tordek Thanks, I did not know that and though I just looked it up, I couldn't find it clearly written in the rules but according to various threads, this seems to be true. So thank you again for telling me; I really wasn't aware of this.
In Magic you shuffle, then your opponent is allowed to shuffle or cut, but then that’s the end of it. The owner of the deck cannot take any further action, though they can have a judge shuffle the deck
@Oliver No, you can cut your own deck. Like they said, if you shuffle your deck, then your opponent shuffles it, you have the opportunity to cut your own deck.
@@NikachuMTG So you are only allowed to shuffle and then your opponent might shuffle + cut or cut only? Then Tordek and Patrick Lucas both gave wrong anwers here.
Insane that part of his intense focus on the game is figuring out when and where to cheat. even with judges right there and a camera, still goes for it. crazy
On a local tournament I've once made a mistake and played a card with the wrong mana colour and only realized a few turns later. My opponent didn't realized about my mistake/cheat so I had to tell him. I asked him if he wanted the game count as a win for him or if he wanted a rematch. He was cool and wanted to keep playing because he was enjoying it.
He was cheering for me when I won the finals and he bragged (jokingly) saying "I let this dude win, so that makes me the real tournament winner".
it's only cheating if it's intentional. You made a "game rule violation" by accident and even acknowledged it to your opponent.
I once made an honest mistake like this in a Prerelease. I accidentally underpaid for a spell. He didn't notice until the start of his next turn. He then said well you win cheater. I was bewildered. I asked how and he explained, he was right obviously. I then immediately offered to replay my turn to make it legal. We couldn't ask a judge because the guy running the tournament didn't even play magic and the shop judge wasn't there until later. He refused to have me replay my turn in a legal way and instead scooped his cards. I figured that was because he couldn't have beaten me either way since I was crushing him. He then waits until the judge shows up hours later and tells him I cheated on purpose and that I offered no reconciliation to resolve the issue before he left. This was at my lgs. So the judge then asks me about it and I explained in detail what happened but I couldn't prove my innocence because the guy had left and the judge wasn't even there at the time. I wasn't punished but from then on the judge would be inclined to be on notice in case I was gonna cheat again. Honest mistakes are inevitable though so it's just an unfair stain on my reputation and I won quite often which only increases suspicion. Fortunately it didn't hurt me in the long run but it was an unfair rush to judgement. That guy could've taken my offer instead but he knew he was gonna lose anyway and decided to call me a cheater instead of letting us play it out to prove I was going to win anyway. Only a sore loser does that. Proving I would win anyway doesn't disprove cheating but it does show that I was willing to correct my mistake and that I likely didn't need to cheat as I was about to win regardless.
Thank you for explaining the decks/cards they use. Just getting into MTG so my knowledge is limited.
So you're telling me that after shuffling or even touching the deck the opponent is not allowed to cut/split the deck. This is to ensure cards are not stacked to the top like so
We wouldn't have to worry about shuffle cheaters if they didn't change the rules about letting the owner of the deck cut it once it came back from being shuffled.
Can’t have the owner cut their own deck because they can cut to marked cards they want to draw. But there should be a rule that the opponent has to finish their shuffle with a cut.
Lol I love the "Who wants to be a millionaire" suspense music while he tries to figure out the win.
I once had a pro player try to cheat me during FNM. Why???? He actually shifted one of his sideboard cards into his starting hand. I asked him how many cards he had and he immediately said sorry and shuffled it back into his starting deck. He knew I caught him but I did not call the judge. I told him (and embarrassed him forever) that if the game meant that much to him he could have the win. From that point on he played me fair. What was really disappointing was that I thought he was a friend. Also, bizarre is that he is such a strong player (makes no errors and optimizes every play) that he doesn't need to cheat to win. Bottom line - when you play you need to watch your opponent carefully. Ask them frequently how many cards are in their hands and really shuffle/cut their deck when they present it to you.
Had a guy cut my deck before game 1 with a bridge shuffle so extreme my cards were temporarily bent. I noticed he had his head low and was looking at my cards as he was letting them snap into place.
Players aren’t allowed to damage other players cards. Hence why you don’t see pros bridge shuffling anyone’s cards.
All this bullshit would be done with if shuffling was face down and refs would force a cut.
Now that I think about it, I may have been shuffle cheated against, but in YUGIOH in a tournament about 25 years ago. Dude had 3 copies of exodia and got all 5 parts in 5 turns. I almost won since I had 3 blue eyes out, would of finished them off next turn. For an explanation, the tournament rules followed season 1 rules of the show as sacrificing was not a requirement yet and exodia wasnt banned yet. Season 2 got 80% of my deck banned/restricted such as Monster Reborn and Black Hole. I left YUGIOH after that since I would have to buy more cards to make a new deck to fit the new rules.
Following season 1 rules, you didnt get cheated, you were just against someone with the power of friendship or a reincarnation of the Pharoah in him.
I had someone sneak a rare into their draft deck from an earlier draft. They also coincidentally drafted the same in that draft. I thought it was really suspicious when they drew that rare early in both of our games and he told me it was because he had two of them. I called s judge over and asked if they could check how many rares were in the combined card pool between everyone and this guy's face went red and he got mad. The judge waited until the end of the round and did so and he got DQ'd
From a judge to everyone complaining about shuffle cheating at their LGS:
Always shuffle your opponent's deck after they do, and always cut it. The rules REQUIRE your opponent to allow you to shuffle AFTER they do and vice versa. If they take exception to it, call the judge. If there's no judge, complain to the store owner and tell them to use a judge for their events. If the store owner doesn't care, there isn't much you can do. But as far as the rules are concerned, every time you shuffle your deck, your opp gets to shuffle it after you do. As a point of contention, ask them to cut after they shuffle if they don't, and make it a habit of your own to cut after you shuffle theirs. If they complain that your method of shuffling damages the cards, tell them not to play those cards. Cards get damaged when they get shuffled, that's life.
15:40 I laughed so hard when the "oof" sound effect came when Alex had to send his 6 permanents to the grave lmao
This is why in many TCGs, like Pokemon or Yugioh, when you let your opponent shuffle or cut after your shuffle, YOU get to cut the deck if THEY shuffle instead of cut. Should be the same in Magic - if you offer cut, but they shuffle, YOU cut.
I was accused of cheating at a guilds of ravnica prerelease by a guy who had 3 dimir spybugs in his opening hand both games.
Great video! We have cheaters to thank for the removal of event coverage.
Imagine teaching yourself to shuffle cheat to cheese tourneys instead of doing magic tricks 🤣 pun not intended
The beginning of the vid explaining the deck was so good, it’s just so clear and concise
Extraordinarily sub-par MTG player here (Muxus go brrrrr). Love your channel, you've got a subscribe. First MTG channel I've followed.
Thanks a lot! Muxus beats me every time!
Perhaps Jared misread one of Alex's cards and thought it was a Near Death Experience and so didn't want him to go down to 1 life. It's only slightly more unlikely than what actually happened.
4:48 if I was a judge I'd immediately call out anyone who shuffles this way. It's so fucking obvious.
This is why I'd rather play these types of games online. Having to pay attention to every movement your opponent does just to make sure you aren't getting fucked over is not fun.
(Obviously this ignores other reason I prefer digital versions. Where I live there aren't many if any gameshops and even if you order online to get your cards finding people to play with isn't easy. So more and more card games offering digital versions of their games has been a godsend for me)
just stumbled across you for first time. you are brave for using the chu name.
If im playing against a known shuffle cheater, every time hes done shuffling my cards and hands them back I would then insist he cut the deck fully, twice, before I touch it again.
Right? At the very least I'd tell them to cut the deck at the end
I hate that I first became interested in Ad Nauseam because of Jared's PT run with it. I do not regret the many years I've enjoyed playing the deck.
I sure do miss this game, was State Champion and won two PTQ, one in Dallas with FoW Oath of druids and one in New Orleans with ...EDIT....New Orleans was a Trade/Awakening deck not living death This was so long ago before i was married, I miss it. Now I will have to get my collection out of the attic and teach my wife to play, thanks UA-cam feed for popping this video onto my feed at 4AM
You can jump back in by playing online for free! Download MTG Arena for PC/Mac/mobile. It's very convenient for a married family with kids.
@@NikachuMTG I did not know about that, thank you so much for the info, I'm downloading it today
@@MrKsan05 enjoy!
With all these cheaters there should be a class specifically for cheating. Lets see who is the better cheater.
how can you cheat in a game that has made up rules
The two kinds of cheaters represented perfectly here. The one that cheats despite being good enough to get there without it and the other one that cheats because he would never get there without it.
I mean anyone who's played in a large tournament understands the appeal of cheating. I played in a 10 round yugioh event the other day and got lucky, ended up going X-1. But every time I was in a losing position it felt bad, and out of my last 7 opponent's only 3 of them were able to deal with the loss in anything resembling a calm manner. Hell my last round opponent threatened to beat me up after I offered a hand shake after the match.
Apparently he had been activating a card effect illegally all day that the judges had warned him about several times, I don't if he would have tried it against me or not because I preemptively asked about the ruling before the activation window was correct for it, so I guess he knew I knew the right ruling.
@@shawnjavery I totally understand the appeal and reasoning, but it, in its entirety, gives wins to people that don’t deserve it and takes away from those that do. It’s just such a shitty thing to have to acknowledge, not to mention in pretty much every TCG.
Michael Jackson popcorn meme 😂😂
I have to give you my thanks. Thanks to these kind if videos you do I've actually caught several shuffle cheaters and managed to win 1 yugioh tournament becuase of it thankyou :).
Keep catching those cheaters!