I never actually considered that, but you're absolutely right. And even if Waters didn't relinquish command, Nog would have been entirely authorized to remove him from command. Plus he was familiar with the Defiant class. And why didn't he just order them to release Jake? Sounds hubris-y to me
I've always agreed with that. He was the ranking officer. But his was a battlefield commission as well, so he didn't have the experience he should have.
2 роки тому+57
@@techsilver7761 OTOH he was one Ferengi against an entire crew who were fanatically loyal to Waters. He'd have ended up in the brig alongside Jake at best. Yes, he had the authority to do so but that can be meaningless if the crew doesn't recognize it.
While the term "decimate" is frequently used, in modern parlance, to mean "to destroy utterly and completely", its correct definition is "to kill every one in ten" or "reduce by one tenth". No doubt "decimate" is used to because it sounds "cooler". However, that is incorrect in the context it is given and meaning ascribed to it. It is correct to use the terms "Obliterate" or "Annihilate".
You’re going all the way back to ancient freaken Rome. It was also used in Latin. Do you have any idea how many Latin words have changed since then? Decimate, as it’s used in english, means the same as annihilate
The Nebula-class starship USS Endeavour escaped from the battle at Wolf 359. The USS Ahwahnee was among the wreckage the Enterprise-D found but it was salvageable since it showed up, at least on a computer graphic, in "Redemption, Part II."
7 is a valid criticism but I feel it's very minor compared to the REALLY stupid idea of not having more than one incomplete ship able to answer emergencies in/near the literal capital system. And they did this at least TWICE (TMP has the same premise, except it's the fiorst refit of the original Enterprise the barely completed ship)
To be fair, we only see the Enterprise with children and families. We didn't see other ships that were just doing their thing and not running into a mind bending space wedgie every week.
@@sarahscott5305 Did it? Yes, it started a war but it did so before the Dominion had the numbers to overwhelm the Alpha quadrant forces. The situation might have been disastrous but that had nothing to do with the decision to mine the wormhole. That decision just mitigated the poor hand Starfleet had at the time and eventually won them the war.
@@ryanclark3445 The Dominion would have the advantage on the Gamma side, probably kamikazing Jem Hadar ships against the Starfleet mine laying vessel(s) before they finished. Actually, it was silly the Defiant alone was laying the lines. Just spare one more ship and cut the time in half. I can be a science vessel or something that wouldn't have been needed for the big fleet operation. But dramatic conceit.
The second Reliant claimed faulty coil and Spock reported their coil readings were normal that should have been a massive red flag and shields should have been raised. If it turned out fine what would have been the harm in raising them? Nothing.
The Romulan relocation was the worst mistake, not only did it cause death in the prime timeline, people in the Kelvin timeline also suffered, so it's double the mistake.
I know it may be a more unpopular opinion but I actually love the effect the Romulan Supernova actually had on Star Trek as a whole. Say what you like about the new stuff, having a major even like that especially not directly linked to any partially character/s but being universal is a great way to shake up canon.
#4: I think that's terribly unfair to even call this a decision. The Dominion had built up a sizeable force around Cardassia by then and it would have just kept growing had Starfleet not mined the wormhole when they did. At that point, war was going to happen anyway. At least this way, Starfleet and their allies had a chance to win. Plus, bear in mind that the Dominion were also going about signing non-aggression treaties with other Alpha Quadrant powers at the time. If Starfleet hadn't acted, then there would likely only be two possible outcomes: either the entire Alpha Quadrant would have made nice with the Dominion to avoid being slaughtered, or the Dominion would have expanded their fleet to the point that they would have crushed all opposition.
Yep. It required literal godly intervention to keep the Dominion from just sending in a fleet large enough to crush the entire alpha quadrant once those mines were destroyed.
Sure, but can there be any? Isn't it a matter in the current view that the decisions are disastrous, idiotic, bad, or short sighted? Is 10 Short Sighted Starfleet Decisions really what you want?
I think maybe the best decision was to start boldly going where no one had gone before - and be prepared for whatever consequences that might lead to! Unless you think all the other species of galactic travellers would have left Earth alone as a pre-warp civilization not worth bothering with. Humanity may have survived longer that way - or they would have become Borg sooner or later?! Making peace with the Klingons and Romulans ought to be among the better decisions!
PERSONALLY I think Starfleet knew that Captain Sisko was doing GANGSTA stuff at DS9 but he was getting it done so they turned a blind eye to his actions.
Say what you want about Harrimen, but the more the Enterprise B's first voyage is mentioned, the more you have to realize it wasn't his fault. He said they weren't ready. Also, for another bad Starfleet decision, somehow letting the Klingons find out about the Genesis device, or maybe even approving the device to begin with, and not seeing its alternative purpose early on and how it would be viewed by their adversaries.
@@richard77231 not only were they the only ship in range. they were the only ship in range IN THE SOL SYSTEM. the Enterprise B's route was out around neptune and back, HOW WAS THERE NOT ANOTHER STARFLEET SHIP INSIDE SECTOR 001?
@@maevekirkland9452 It is had to believe Starfleet ships would be spread that thin. Anyone could March right over the Federation had this been the case. For that matter, was there no ship in for some repairs, crew transfers, or other possible reasons?
The Enterprise B is totally plausible. The US sends capitol ships out all the time without all the systems in place. For example, the new Ford class carrier first took to sea in 2017 for sea trials but isn't expected to be ready for combat operations until next year. It makes perfect sense that Starfleet would do the same with a new Excelsior class ship.
I don't know if this was mentioned in novels or by the show producers but sidelining the Sovereign class to protect Earth, or worse continue Exploration while Starfleet was being bleed dry fighting the Dominion, along with their allies losing numbers, during the war was dumb.
I always wondered about the B being "the only ship in range" Errrr....weren't they launching from earth's spacedock? (Maybe Mars, don't remember) So an unfinished hull is the only heavy in or near the Terran system?
it's like I the second jj trek movie when the vengeance engaged the enterprise and literally, nobody from the fleet was like WTFare those donkeys doing to the federation flagship. or in paradise lost where show one excelsior ship was able to dispatch troops all over the ship. and the giant space station in orbit was like am I a joke to you.
In "Space Seed" the actual musing was initiated by Spock when he said it would be interesting to return in 100 years and see what crop had sprung. Kirk's reply was it would indeed.
The actual quotes: Spock: "Would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in 100 years, and learn what crop had sprung from the seed you planted today." Kirk: "Yes Mr. Spock. It would indeed."
Eugh, the Romulan relocation. Awful ham-fisted attempt to write real-world subtext into the show. Highschool PSAs are more subtle and make more sense. At least they could have acknowledged why the vast Romulan star empire wasn't that fussed it's home system was about to explode.
Picard deciding to NOT infect Hugh with a virus to take back into the Borg collective was a tactical mistake. While Hugh's independence brought about changes in the collective, a virus would have eliminated it, and saved countless lives.
@@iriswaldenburger2315 not genocide. Borg aren’t a species. They are machines that infect other species. By definition, not a genocide. They beat the borg by sheer luck. But sure, let’s not kill the borg and let them kill or assimilate everyone alive in the galaxy. Smart move
I don't understand no:7. What else was the admiral supposed to do? Order the fleet not to attack the Borg, and escort them to earth? Regardless if Picard was compromised, they had no options.
The Enterprise B was in her shakedown cruise. This is a real thing ships do in real life. They are not always complete and it's to look for any flaws with the engine or vital equipment. So this was not a mistake by starfleet. Though there really should be more ships around earth imo. Though a ship with working transporters would be able to render assistance and the captain even points out they are not equiped for a rescue operation.
Kirk actually pushed Harriman into that rescue operation.He stated that they had to answer that distress call. I think Kirk was just wanting personal action for himself, he was bored with civilian life.
@@johnbockelie3899 in this case I think that he wanted command again but he did let Harriman call the shots and I think the rescue was because they were required to help and it's his duty to help.
Quote from DS9 which describe the Federation perfectly: "The Maquis left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious."
Which is bullshit. Eddington is a deluded idiot. The Maquis were formed by people who the Federation AGREED (albeit reluctantly) to let leave. The Borg sure as hell don't let that fly. And people have to take a VERY lengthy process to decide if they want to join the UFP (and if the UFP even wants them). Meanwhile the Borg don't give a fuck what you want. Eddington fully deserved Sisko's wratch (a man who directly suffered loss against the Borg).
They were also a paramilitary organization who has been smuggling Starfleet weapons to civilians who at that point weren’t even in federation borders. The Maquis are human colonists who refused to leave after the systems were ceded to the Cardassian Union. A decision I expect was reversed or rendered null after the Dominion War, for the reason that all the Maquis were dead. Morally questionable, definitely illegal, and possibly treason.
the Enterprise B wasn't officially commissioned yet. She was on her first shake down cruise. Not her Maiden voyage. That is why she didn't have some components installed yet.
Kirk" Um...." Harriman " Tuesday....". Kirk " And......." Harriman " Er, Tuesday" Kirk " And ......" Harriman " I guess, TUESDAY." Kirk " Ok, ...carry on Captain, even if it takes a week."
The bad decision around that incident, was that there were no other ships around to provide aid to the distressed ships, or even Enterprise B if something went wrong during the shakedown.
Have to disagree on Wolf 359, Starfleet knew about Picard's knowledge being assimilated but they had to make a stand to defend or Earth, they weren't going to give up without a fight
ya, Wolf 359 was very much a catch 22, hell even the Kobayashi Maru has better odds(prime timeline, cheating is an option) do nothing and Borg win by default engage with the old plan, that Picard knew, they might win/lose devise a new plan, that might not be ready or relayed to everyone in time, and you might have a half assed or confused defense
Ok in regards to the Valiant. It was captiained by a drug induced roguelike child. He took over when the instructors died. Those young idiots had the bravery but not the experience as those instructors they had lost. So wasnt given to them, they were just the ones alive.
Hm, didn't seem like it had many lasting consequences. The Federation and the Cardassian Empire stayed in their little cold war and the trauma Picard had received seems to have been little compared to the one he got from being assimilated by the Borg.
@@Lavadog11 Not true at all. The battle at Wolf whatever traumatized Picard and the Federation and the Truce with the Cardassians lead to the formation of the Marquis. Also, all the Klingon Episodes. TNG was epusodic, but it marked also very clearly the ending of an era.
Hey Sean! On number nine, Admiral Hanson didn't take Picard's knowledge being used by the Borg into account, he outright dismissed it saying Picard would never willingly help the Borg. And I quote "There is no way in hell that he would assist the Borg. I want that clear."
There was another MAJOR MISTAKE made by starfleet that should have made the list...failing to recover the Doomsday Machine after Kirk's battle with it. They could have examined it, enhanced Starfleet Command technology with it, or even, repair or mass produce it for defense. The Doomsday Machine would have been an INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE to have when they later faced the Borg or the Dominion.
Eh, the cube would have shredded the wolf fleet in any case. Starfleet was simply not up to the task, was caught in its undies and taken to pound town. Heck, the Borg were defeated by horrible network security.
The Pegasus episode from TNG contained the worst mistake Picard ever made, save for infecting Hugh. The latter condemned entire civilizations to death, but they were others from the Federation's point of view. Picard not realizing the tactical and strategic advantages that the phase cloak conveyed, especially with the threats the federation was facing, was beyond ridiculous. I remember watching that episode as a teenager and realizing that something was deeply wrong with the Federation and Star Fleet. Picard, and Star Fleet chose moral points over the lives of not just their officers and enlisted personnel, but numberless citizens who lost their lives, those that Star Fleet was sworn to protect. One person, or even an automated system, could have used a phase cloaked runabout (or other smaller vessel) to deliver antimatter weapons to the heart of Borg cubes to instantly destroy them. Also likely the borg would never have had the chance to adapt to this tactic, since their connection with the collective would have instantly been severed. The tactical and strategic advantages against the Dominion, Romulans, Cardassians, even the Klingons were far to great, and the Romulans would have been in a poor state to protest given their greatest advantage over the federation would have been surpassed.
#7 could also apply to ST TMP with the original Constitution Refit Enterprise dealing with a rushed completion to intercept V-GER. Hence the warp induced wormhole and the people melting transporters... (that scene is still chilling)
1. Not collapsing the wormhole or mining it earlier. They let hundreds of Dominion ships through, allowed them to gain a foothold. 2. Not just letting the Maquis do their thing. The Maquis were right. Star fleet should have just left them alone. 3. Not programming every ship to just ram into the Borg cubes at warp speed, with no crews aboard. Instead they wasted hundreds of ships and thousands of lives on crap tactics. 4. Not letting the Klingons lay waste to the Cardassians as the Dominion were starting to bring ships in. 5. Every decision Janeway ever made. Not a bad decision - Sending Enterprise B on the shake down cruise. You're telling me it wasn't normal to let a newly commissioned ship take a trip around Pluto and back to see how she runs? How were they supposed to know they were going to run into the nexus? And if Enterprise wasn't there, no other ship would have been able to rescue the others.
Even in yhre 24th century Microsoft only puts out the OS updates on Tuesdays so the torpedo launchers will work. No reason to have the torpedos until the OS is operational...🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sure, blame the Federation for the Romulan problems, writers. This happened because (1) the writers assumed that Romulus and Remus were the ONLY Romulan planets - it's an empire, it's hundreds of light years wide, there are going to be many colonies - and (2) They somehow decided that the massive Romulan fleet would be unable to perform the evacuation. This is just one of many sins that can be laid at the Picard writers' doorsteps.
Keeping Picard away from the Borg incursion was the right decision. He had been assimilated and was probably suspected of being an unwilling fifth columnist - which he easily could have been since First Contact showed he still had some active Borg tech in him. By all rights they should have taken away his command and sent him to do something harmless, like making him the (closely watched) headmaster of Starfleet Academy.
At some point, the Enterprise-B was going to be unfinished for a time. It happens with all ships, even naval ships today. They put most of the ship together, and then they move it someplace else to finish it, load it, and send it on its way. The bigger error here, is the one oft-repeated by Starfleet. How often is Sol unprotected? I get that in the future, Starfleet is peaceful and war is a thing of the past, but it's not really. It seems like every week that the holodeck doesn't break, something heads toward Earth and Starfleet headquarters with nothing in the way to stop it save the Enterprise and crew.
In light of what we've seen on Lower Decks, I think that not checking in on worlds contacted by the federation First Contact teams qualifies as a decision with devastating consequences. I'd elaborate, but spoilers and all.
I'll have to re-watch "Space Seed" but I believe Spock said that it would be something to see in 100 years the seed that Kirk planted. 100 years, not 15.
I feel bad for the Enterprise B. You know how scheduling is. They were probably preparing the launch for the next week but somebody couldn't make it so said the hell with it what's the worst that could happen?
Tuesday is like Monday in the Star Trek Universe .And one the coolest Captains in StarFeet died ,there leaving the biggest mark in Star Trek history .Since Captain Kirk one cool dude .And there one two men Captains on this list .That think ae cool .
Sorry you're wrong about number 6 Starfleet did not know that there was only cadet onboard that ship they thought there was senior officers on board as well because they're acting captain never told Starfleet that they were all dead I hope I remember it alright😂😂😂
Perhaps. You might say it was a "decision", though I don't know that the consequences "devastating". First, we'd have to look at the exact Starfleet sections that apply, but that was just Spock being logical and trying to follow the rules. Commodore Decker *was* the highest ranking officer aboard the *Enterprise* at the time. By the rules & regs (at least as Spock saw them), he followed them as well as he could. He didn't really have a decision. As for the rest, they actually covered that pretty well in the episode itself. Spock pointed out that McCoy could relive him if he could show there was medical reason to do so, but would then be required to show proof by an exam. Which there had not been time to perform one (maybe). And when Kirk orders Spock to take command, it Is the first thing Spock orders; an exam for Decker. Its also not disastrous. In fact, Decker's sacrifice shows them the way to defeat the Doomsday machine.
Khan was not Starfleet decision as Kirk decision, if this was Starfleet "call" they would be probably in jail or already dead. What was Starfleet, or more likely Reliant crew error that they did not check properly that Sector is -1 planet and also if Chekov somehow remember on Ceti Alpha 6(5) that Botany Bay is Khan ship, he could tell about that Terrel. But overall, still Kirk error and great input from Nicholas Meyer who made a point that any decisions in TOS did not have any consequences in future and he break this formula as first in Star trek history.
Kirk's mistake was also not putting a beacon in orbit warning ships that an incredibly dangerous genetically engineered supervillain was in exile below and to stay the hell away. lol
Chekov wasn't actually on the show yet when Space Seed occurred. Though Walter Koenig has since joked that Chekov was in the Lower Decks and inadvertently made Khan wait for a bathroom one time.
I have to say ST Generations is probably my favorite (although sad if you think about the storyline). Sulu: "Captain, we don't have any torpedoes." / Kirk: "Don't tell me.... Tuesday?" Second has to be Checkov telling the two reports they have just become nurses when he learns that there is no medical staff aboard.
@4:16 You're practically painting Capt. Harriman as a veritable ensign. Maybe he was written that way. But he certainly didn't make captain without putting in a fair amount of starship time, including as a first officer.
Here's the thing about the Valiant. The second Nog a Starfleet officer with an ACTUAL commission, stepped aboard Waters should have given him command.
I never actually considered that, but you're absolutely right. And even if Waters didn't relinquish command, Nog would have been entirely authorized to remove him from command. Plus he was familiar with the Defiant class. And why didn't he just order them to release Jake? Sounds hubris-y to me
@@techsilver7761 Bad writing.
I've always agreed with that. He was the ranking officer. But his was a battlefield commission as well, so he didn't have the experience he should have.
@@techsilver7761 OTOH he was one Ferengi against an entire crew who were fanatically loyal to Waters. He'd have ended up in the brig alongside Jake at best. Yes, he had the authority to do so but that can be meaningless if the crew doesn't recognize it.
@ Concur; Nog argubly had the _authority_ but not the _power_ .
#4 arguably saved lives. They even stated in episode that it would start a war but they were losing the peace.
"We're losing the peace. War may be our only... hope."
I love that episode SO MUCH!!!
Giving the go ahead for the Oberth class?
Tuesday from Generations makes any Friday the 13th look like a good day!
Thanks for these . I keep having this thought that the Millenium Falcon helped fight the Borg.
"Played right into the Founders' goo." - lol
While the term "decimate" is frequently used, in modern parlance, to mean "to destroy utterly and completely", its correct definition is "to kill every one in ten" or "reduce by one tenth". No doubt "decimate" is used to because it sounds "cooler". However, that is incorrect in the context it is given and meaning ascribed to it. It is correct to use the terms "Obliterate" or "Annihilate".
Cool. Ya learnt me somethin'😁👍
"devastate" is what most people mean when they say "decimate"
@@lanapowell
That is a another better word. Thank you.
You’re going all the way back to ancient freaken Rome. It was also used in Latin. Do you have any idea how many Latin words have changed since then? Decimate, as it’s used in english, means the same as annihilate
The Nebula-class starship USS Endeavour escaped from the battle at Wolf 359. The USS Ahwahnee was among the wreckage the Enterprise-D found but it was salvageable since it showed up, at least on a computer graphic, in "Redemption, Part II."
I would add Janeway's decision not to return to Federation space in the pilot to Voyager. But them there would have been no series, would there?
7 is a valid criticism but I feel it's very minor compared to the REALLY stupid idea of not having more than one incomplete ship able to answer emergencies in/near the literal capital system. And they did this at least TWICE (TMP has the same premise, except it's the fiorst refit of the original Enterprise the barely completed ship)
Dang, most of these mistakes were made during the show of Deep Space Nine. I think Capt. Sisko should be demoted! ...lolol
If you can only choose between greater or lesser evil you still have to choose evil.
You make is sound like there is always a magical "third option" where you can always choose "good".
The First Contact bollocks is just a nonsense.
Scp-6004
ST Picard is not canon
StarTP is not real Star Trek.
Let's put families on starships, they would be safe as houses.
No lets put families on starships that are practically glass cannons. They proved that with the Galaxy class during the Dominion war.
Lower Decks sends this up perfectly in a command training simulation that Rutherford tried. No spoilers you have to see it - so darkly funny.
Safe as houses in a warzone.
You call it a mistake, Starfleet medical calls it "child rearing environment condition #3" 😅
To be fair, we only see the Enterprise with children and families. We didn't see other ships that were just doing their thing and not running into a mind bending space wedgie every week.
Mining the Wormhole was not a mistake, war was coming, mining the wormhole prevented the Dominion from wining outright.
Never said it was a mistake... but it still had disastrous consequences!
It just accelerated what would have happened anyway. You can say the mistake was that star fleet caused the early start without being prepared for it.
@@sarahscott5305 Did it? Yes, it started a war but it did so before the Dominion had the numbers to overwhelm the Alpha quadrant forces. The situation might have been disastrous but that had nothing to do with the decision to mine the wormhole. That decision just mitigated the poor hand Starfleet had at the time and eventually won them the war.
I always wondered why they didnt mine both sides
@@ryanclark3445 The Dominion would have the advantage on the Gamma side, probably kamikazing Jem Hadar ships against the Starfleet mine laying vessel(s) before they finished. Actually, it was silly the Defiant alone was laying the lines. Just spare one more ship and cut the time in half. I can be a science vessel or something that wouldn't have been needed for the big fleet operation. But dramatic conceit.
When the Enterprise failed to raise the shields when approaching the Reliant.
That was a captain’s decision, not Star Fleet.
@@AtheistRex And you know, as far as Kirk knew at the time, Reliant was helmed by who it was supposed to be helmed by aka a Starfleet ship.
The second Reliant claimed faulty coil and Spock reported their coil readings were normal that should have been a massive red flag and shields should have been raised. If it turned out fine what would have been the harm in raising them? Nothing.
@@Linerunner99 Yes that's when Kirk should have raised the shields.
What was Terrel gonna do? Ball-out an Admiral?
The Romulan relocation was the worst mistake, not only did it cause death in the prime timeline, people in the Kelvin timeline also suffered, so it's double the mistake.
Because the Romulans were too incompetent to leave their planet on their own. I can´t see how Starfleet should be blamed for these events.
The Romulan relocation didn't cause the star to explode or Nero and Spock to time travel. The relocation happened *after* the star blew up.
I know it may be a more unpopular opinion but I actually love the effect the Romulan Supernova actually had on Star Trek as a whole. Say what you like about the new stuff, having a major even like that especially not directly linked to any partially character/s but being universal is a great way to shake up canon.
@@Mofix222 I am not debating fictional politics
@@thebronzedragon1 It certainly gave us new stories to explore
#4: I think that's terribly unfair to even call this a decision. The Dominion had built up a sizeable force around Cardassia by then and it would have just kept growing had Starfleet not mined the wormhole when they did. At that point, war was going to happen anyway. At least this way, Starfleet and their allies had a chance to win.
Plus, bear in mind that the Dominion were also going about signing non-aggression treaties with other Alpha Quadrant powers at the time. If Starfleet hadn't acted, then there would likely only be two possible outcomes: either the entire Alpha Quadrant would have made nice with the Dominion to avoid being slaughtered, or the Dominion would have expanded their fleet to the point that they would have crushed all opposition.
Yep. It required literal godly intervention to keep the Dominion from just sending in a fleet large enough to crush the entire alpha quadrant once those mines were destroyed.
Was what it Kirk told Picard in the Nexus, "Never let them promote you"? Picard should have listened.
Now, how about the 10 Starfleet Decisions with the Best Consequences… Please and Thank you. 🖖🏻
Yes! Two votes!
I third this request.
Sure, but can there be any? Isn't it a matter in the current view that the decisions are disastrous, idiotic, bad, or short sighted? Is 10 Short Sighted Starfleet Decisions really what you want?
I think maybe the best decision was to start boldly going where no one had gone before - and be prepared for whatever consequences that might lead to!
Unless you think all the other species of galactic travellers would have left Earth alone as a pre-warp civilization not worth bothering with. Humanity may have survived longer that way - or they would have become Borg sooner or later?!
Making peace with the Klingons and Romulans ought to be among the better decisions!
PERSONALLY I think Starfleet knew that Captain Sisko was doing GANGSTA stuff at DS9 but he was getting it done so they turned a blind eye to his actions.
Well putting rocks in the consoles and them always blowing up during a battle isn't a good call either.
In the future, people forgot about fuses.
The comment section won't be installed until Tuesday.
"hey.. wait, actually it is, already Tuesday" 😊
They meant next Tuesday.
Say what you want about Harrimen, but the more the Enterprise B's first voyage is mentioned, the more you have to realize it wasn't his fault. He said they weren't ready. Also, for another bad Starfleet decision, somehow letting the Klingons find out about the Genesis device, or maybe even approving the device to begin with, and not seeing its alternative purpose early on and how it would be viewed by their adversaries.
Looking at the cost in lives vs. lives saved it seems to be a positive outcome.
Doesn't it say more that the only ship in range wasn't even complete! I'd say the bigger issue is not having any fully operational ships nearby.
@@richard77231 not only were they the only ship in range. they were the only ship in range IN THE SOL SYSTEM. the Enterprise B's route was out around neptune and back, HOW WAS THERE NOT ANOTHER STARFLEET SHIP INSIDE SECTOR 001?
@@maevekirkland9452
It is had to believe Starfleet ships would be spread that thin. Anyone could March right over the Federation had this been the case. For that matter, was there no ship in for some repairs, crew transfers, or other possible reasons?
The Enterprise B is totally plausible. The US sends capitol ships out all the time without all the systems in place. For example, the new Ford class carrier first took to sea in 2017 for sea trials but isn't expected to be ready for combat operations until next year. It makes perfect sense that Starfleet would do the same with a new Excelsior class ship.
I support Sisko mining the wormhole. No other alternative was available.
I don't know if this was mentioned in novels or by the show producers but sidelining the Sovereign class to protect Earth, or worse continue Exploration while Starfleet was being bleed dry fighting the Dominion, along with their allies losing numbers, during the war was dumb.
I always wondered about the B being "the only ship in range"
Errrr....weren't they launching from earth's spacedock? (Maybe Mars, don't remember)
So an unfinished hull is the only heavy in or near the Terran system?
I have the Exact same question!
Could be the only Excelsior class starship on Earth orbit, as it was the fastest ship at the time
@@kerwin1623 yeah but even one slightly slower with tractor beams and all would be more helpful.
it's like I the second jj trek movie when the vengeance engaged the enterprise and literally, nobody from the fleet was like WTFare those donkeys doing to the federation flagship. or in paradise lost where show one excelsior ship was able to dispatch troops all over the ship. and the giant space station in orbit was like am I a joke to you.
There is no plot if people are intelligent.
Shortening it to 10? I could probably give you 20 just from TNG
Sequel lists, man.
@@MikefromTexas1 we could make it to 100 then 😂
In "Space Seed" the actual musing was initiated by Spock when he said it would be interesting to return in 100 years and see what crop had sprung.
Kirk's reply was it would indeed.
The actual quotes:
Spock: "Would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in 100 years, and learn what crop had sprung from the seed you planted today."
Kirk: "Yes Mr. Spock. It would indeed."
Eugh, the Romulan relocation. Awful ham-fisted attempt to write real-world subtext into the show. Highschool PSAs are more subtle and make more sense. At least they could have acknowledged why the vast Romulan star empire wasn't that fussed it's home system was about to explode.
Picard deciding to NOT infect Hugh with a virus to take back into the Borg collective was a tactical mistake. While Hugh's independence brought about changes in the collective, a virus would have eliminated it, and saved countless lives.
But it would have effectively been genocide … how is that ANY better than what the BORG are doing??
@@iriswaldenburger2315 not genocide. Borg aren’t a species. They are machines that infect other species. By definition, not a genocide. They beat the borg by sheer luck. But sure, let’s not kill the borg and let them kill or assimilate everyone alive in the galaxy. Smart move
It's called a morale choice, not a tactical one
@@iriswaldenburger2315 Is'nt it what Janeway did
@@warreng675 yup
I don't understand no:7. What else was the admiral supposed to do? Order the fleet not to attack the Borg, and escort them to earth? Regardless if Picard was compromised, they had no options.
The Enterprise B was in her shakedown cruise. This is a real thing ships do in real life. They are not always complete and it's to look for any flaws with the engine or vital equipment. So this was not a mistake by starfleet. Though there really should be more ships around earth imo. Though a ship with working transporters would be able to render assistance and the captain even points out they are not equiped for a rescue operation.
Kirk actually pushed Harriman into that rescue operation.He stated that they had to answer that distress call. I think Kirk was just wanting personal action for himself, he was bored with civilian life.
@@johnbockelie3899 in this case I think that he wanted command again but he did let Harriman call the shots and I think the rescue was because they were required to help and it's his duty to help.
IRC irl shakedown cruises they aren’t unescorted?
Quote from DS9 which describe the Federation perfectly: "The Maquis left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious."
Which is bullshit. Eddington is a deluded idiot. The Maquis were formed by people who the Federation AGREED (albeit reluctantly) to let leave. The Borg sure as hell don't let that fly. And people have to take a VERY lengthy process to decide if they want to join the UFP (and if the UFP even wants them). Meanwhile the Borg don't give a fuck what you want. Eddington fully deserved Sisko's wratch (a man who directly suffered loss against the Borg).
@@jaywaii3187 they didn't let them leave the Federation, they handed them over to the Cardassians.
They were also a paramilitary organization who has been smuggling Starfleet weapons to civilians who at that point weren’t even in federation borders. The Maquis are human colonists who refused to leave after the systems were ceded to the Cardassian Union. A decision I expect was reversed or rendered null after the Dominion War, for the reason that all the Maquis were dead.
Morally questionable, definitely illegal, and possibly treason.
not destroying the borg via hugh
the Enterprise B wasn't officially commissioned yet. She was on her first shake down cruise. Not her Maiden voyage. That is why she didn't have some components installed yet.
Yeah. Warships go on sea trials in much the same way.
Kirk" Um...."
Harriman " Tuesday....".
Kirk " And......."
Harriman " Er, Tuesday"
Kirk " And ......"
Harriman " I guess, TUESDAY."
Kirk " Ok, ...carry on Captain, even if it takes a week."
Did they install a toilet?
I would argue they should not even go as far as they did, if there was a problem they might not have been able to get back or call for help.
The bad decision around that incident, was that there were no other ships around to provide aid to the distressed ships, or even Enterprise B if something went wrong during the shakedown.
Have to disagree on Wolf 359, Starfleet knew about Picard's knowledge being assimilated but they had to make a stand to defend or Earth, they weren't going to give up without a fight
ya, Wolf 359 was very much a catch 22, hell even the Kobayashi Maru has better odds(prime timeline, cheating is an option)
do nothing and Borg win by default
engage with the old plan, that Picard knew, they might win/lose
devise a new plan, that might not be ready or relayed to everyone in time, and you might have a half assed or confused defense
S nothing bad happened in Voyager or Enterprise then
Yeah... feels like they really wanted to shoehorn something from "Picard" onto the list instead... Lame.
Another great topic! But in the ST TOS Space Seed, it’s Spock (not Kirk) who muses about coming back in 100 years not in 15 as you mention.
TODAY'S TUESDAY! Where's that Tractor?!
Ok in regards to the Valiant. It was captiained by a drug induced roguelike child. He took over when the instructors died. Those young idiots had the bravery but not the experience as those instructors they had lost. So wasnt given to them, they were just the ones alive.
Putting explosives and rocks in every consoles.
Actually US Aircraft Carriers, Destroyers and Nuclear Submarines go out on trial runs without everything they would need for active service
The difference being that they are never the only ships close to the home ports lol.
When you said 'putting children in charge' - I thought sure Wesley would be involved somehow.
"Squeaking like an unused toy"?! 🤣🤣🤣 Oh, Sean...I ❤️ you!!
Honorable mention - sending Picard, Crusher, and Worf on a covert mission into Cardassian space.
Hm, didn't seem like it had many lasting consequences. The Federation and the Cardassian Empire stayed in their little cold war and the trauma Picard had received seems to have been little compared to the one he got from being assimilated by the Borg.
About that, the Cardassians went through all that trouble to lure Picard to them, only to learn that he didn't have the information that they wanted.
@@Akira625 there are FOUR lights!
@@TheSorrel Nothing that happens in the episodic shows has "lasting consequences".
@@Lavadog11 Not true at all. The battle at Wolf whatever traumatized Picard and the Federation and the Truce with the Cardassians lead to the formation of the Marquis. Also, all the Klingon Episodes.
TNG was epusodic, but it marked also very clearly the ending of an era.
Hey Sean! On number nine, Admiral Hanson didn't take Picard's knowledge being used by the Borg into account, he outright dismissed it saying Picard would never willingly help the Borg. And I quote "There is no way in hell that he would assist the Borg. I want that clear."
Mining the wormhole to deny further dominion build up was good.
Not fortifying ds9 was the mistake.
There was another MAJOR MISTAKE made by starfleet that should have made the list...failing to recover the Doomsday Machine after Kirk's battle with it. They could have examined it, enhanced Starfleet Command technology with it, or even, repair or mass produce it for defense. The Doomsday Machine would have been an INCREDIBLE ADVANTAGE to have when they later faced the Borg or the Dominion.
Umm. They did recover it
USS Enterprise NCC-1701Refit, USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A, and USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B... All ships Launched before they were ready.
Eh, the cube would have shredded the wolf fleet in any case.
Starfleet was simply not up to the task, was caught in its undies and taken to pound town.
Heck, the Borg were defeated by horrible network security.
Yes, and a major programming bug in the sleep/hibernate event code.
The Pegasus episode from TNG contained the worst mistake Picard ever made, save for infecting Hugh. The latter condemned entire civilizations to death, but they were others from the Federation's point of view. Picard not realizing the tactical and strategic advantages that the phase cloak conveyed, especially with the threats the federation was facing, was beyond ridiculous.
I remember watching that episode as a teenager and realizing that something was deeply wrong with the Federation and Star Fleet. Picard, and Star Fleet chose moral points over the lives of not just their officers and enlisted personnel, but numberless citizens who lost their lives, those that Star Fleet was sworn to protect.
One person, or even an automated system, could have used a phase cloaked runabout (or other smaller vessel) to deliver antimatter weapons to the heart of Borg cubes to instantly destroy them. Also likely the borg would never have had the chance to adapt to this tactic, since their connection with the collective would have instantly been severed.
The tactical and strategic advantages against the Dominion, Romulans, Cardassians, even the Klingons were far to great, and the Romulans would have been in a poor state to protest given their greatest advantage over the federation would have been surpassed.
Don't legitimize 'Star DRECK: Picard' by including it in a video like this.....
top 10 star trek catch phrases/tropes!
#7 could also apply to ST TMP with the original Constitution Refit Enterprise dealing with a rushed completion to intercept V-GER. Hence the warp induced wormhole and the people melting transporters... (that scene is still chilling)
The next most disturbing scene is that they laugh at McCoy 10 minutes later for being hesitant to use the bloody thing.
1. Not collapsing the wormhole or mining it earlier. They let hundreds of Dominion ships through, allowed them to gain a foothold.
2. Not just letting the Maquis do their thing. The Maquis were right. Star fleet should have just left them alone.
3. Not programming every ship to just ram into the Borg cubes at warp speed, with no crews aboard. Instead they wasted hundreds of ships and thousands of lives on crap tactics.
4. Not letting the Klingons lay waste to the Cardassians as the Dominion were starting to bring ships in.
5. Every decision Janeway ever made.
Not a bad decision - Sending Enterprise B on the shake down cruise. You're telling me it wasn't normal to let a newly commissioned ship take a trip around Pluto and back to see how she runs? How were they supposed to know they were going to run into the nexus? And if Enterprise wasn't there, no other ship would have been able to rescue the others.
The Dominion War was far and away the greatest Trek story line
11:13 What the hell are you talking about? What kinda show is that!?
Great video Seán! 🖖🏻👨🏻🦲👍🏻
(Just leaving a comment for the algorithm.)
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!
Even in yhre 24th century Microsoft only puts out the OS updates on Tuesdays so the torpedo launchers will work. No reason to have the torpedos until the OS is operational...🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sure, blame the Federation for the Romulan problems, writers. This happened because (1) the writers assumed that Romulus and Remus were the ONLY Romulan planets - it's an empire, it's hundreds of light years wide, there are going to be many colonies - and (2) They somehow decided that the massive Romulan fleet would be unable to perform the evacuation. This is just one of many sins that can be laid at the Picard writers' doorsteps.
Keeping Picard away from the Borg incursion was the right decision. He had been assimilated and was probably suspected of being an unwilling fifth columnist - which he easily could have been since First Contact showed he still had some active Borg tech in him. By all rights they should have taken away his command and sent him to do something harmless, like making him the (closely watched) headmaster of Starfleet Academy.
At some point, the Enterprise-B was going to be unfinished for a time. It happens with all ships, even naval ships today. They put most of the ship together, and then they move it someplace else to finish it, load it, and send it on its way. The bigger error here, is the one oft-repeated by Starfleet. How often is Sol unprotected? I get that in the future, Starfleet is peaceful and war is a thing of the past, but it's not really. It seems like every week that the holodeck doesn't break, something heads toward Earth and Starfleet headquarters with nothing in the way to stop it save the Enterprise and crew.
So Starfleet allowed the Enterprise B to be released in "Early Access", with updates to be made irregularly and on random systems...?
In light of what we've seen on Lower Decks, I think that not checking in on worlds contacted by the federation First Contact teams qualifies as a decision with devastating consequences. I'd elaborate, but spoilers and all.
I'll have to re-watch "Space Seed" but I believe Spock said that it would be something to see in 100 years the seed that Kirk planted. 100 years, not 15.
I feel bad for the Enterprise B. You know how scheduling is. They were probably preparing the launch for the next week but somebody couldn't make it so said the hell with it what's the worst that could happen?
Picard not putting the fractal computer virus in Hugh and sending him back to the collective. THAT was BIG.
Borg cube coming that wrecked our flagship a few months back? That Oberth will be a critical component in our fleet.
The amount of losses suffered by the Federation during the Dominion War were ridiculously excessive.
Tuesday is like Monday in the Star Trek Universe .And one the coolest Captains in StarFeet died ,there leaving the biggest mark in Star Trek history .Since Captain Kirk one cool dude .And there one two men Captains on this list .That think ae cool .
That's roughly 282 people per ship at wolf 359 ships definitely had been under staffed
Sorry you're wrong about number 6
Starfleet did not know that there was only cadet onboard that ship they thought there was senior officers on board as well because they're acting captain never told Starfleet that they were all dead I hope I remember it alright😂😂😂
2:43 You forgot to mention that Cisco's wife was killed at Wolf 359 which is why he hated Captain Picard so much!
You missed the M5 computer being installed on the USS Enterprise NCC 1701
"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
At least the legal justice system works in the future.
Proof that Starfleet had some shitty editor's when it came to reviewing log entry's!
I thought the "Endeavor" was the only surviving starship?🤔
that number 7. spot. it does reminds me of Enterprise broken bow episode. because they did not putting phase cannons on the ship. ect. ect. ect.
Allowing Comedor Decker in doomsday machine to assume command without first undergoing a medical after losing his ship
Perhaps. You might say it was a "decision", though I don't know that the consequences "devastating". First, we'd have to look at the exact Starfleet sections that apply, but that was just Spock being logical and trying to follow the rules. Commodore Decker *was* the highest ranking officer aboard the *Enterprise* at the time. By the rules & regs (at least as Spock saw them), he followed them as well as he could. He didn't really have a decision. As for the rest, they actually covered that pretty well in the episode itself. Spock pointed out that McCoy could relive him if he could show there was medical reason to do so, but would then be required to show proof by an exam. Which there had not been time to perform one (maybe). And when Kirk orders Spock to take command, it Is the first thing Spock orders; an exam for Decker. Its also not disastrous. In fact, Decker's sacrifice shows them the way to defeat the Doomsday machine.
Khan was not Starfleet decision as Kirk decision, if this was Starfleet "call" they would be probably in jail or already dead. What was Starfleet, or more likely Reliant crew error that they did not check properly that Sector is -1 planet and also if Chekov somehow remember on Ceti Alpha 6(5) that Botany Bay is Khan ship, he could tell about that Terrel. But overall, still Kirk error and great input from Nicholas Meyer who made a point that any decisions in TOS did not have any consequences in future and he break this formula as first in Star trek history.
Kirk's mistake was also not putting a beacon in orbit warning ships that an incredibly dangerous genetically engineered supervillain was in exile below and to stay the hell away. lol
Chekov wasn't actually on the show yet when Space Seed occurred. Though Walter Koenig has since joked that Chekov was in the Lower Decks and inadvertently made Khan wait for a bathroom one time.
I have to say ST Generations is probably my favorite (although sad if you think about the storyline). Sulu: "Captain, we don't have any torpedoes." / Kirk: "Don't tell me.... Tuesday?" Second has to be Checkov telling the two reports they have just become nurses when he learns that there is no medical staff aboard.
Fun Fact: The Chekov line was meant for Dr. McCoy but DeForest Kelly was too ill to be insured on set so they gave his lines to Chekov.
Excellent segment, both thoughtful and thought-provoking. Much appreciated.
It never occurred to me how long a trip it would be in those escape pods.
I'm a terrible person , but I'm such a fano Sean..
Have to agree...Sean is pretty cool.
Mining the wormhole was not a bad decision. The only bad decision was doing it so late.
I can't do it captain, i ain't got the power. Not till Tuesday anyway
#1 never happened. You are short 1 devastating decision.
Not helping the marquee once Cardassia had turned to the Dominion
Think they just wiped the marquee out between episodes as soon as it happened.
Never seen Picard.. So the Romulan Supernova.. that's a direct tie in to Spock in JJ Abrams trek?
Yes it’s the fall out in the main timeline from the supernova he failed to prevent.
This was before Tuvac's race change operation.
Brilliant video TrekCulture
@12:07 "This facility has gone 5843 days without an assimilation."
😂😂😂
@4:16 You're practically painting Capt. Harriman as a veritable ensign. Maybe he was written that way. But he certainly didn't make captain without putting in a fair amount of starship time, including as a first officer.
I've heard that there were several cubes in First Contact, but the line was cut. Star Trek Invasion goes into it a bit.
OMG this was all real ? jeez millions , trillions died !!!
1. Putting Bad Reboot in charge.