Perpetual motion is always just out of reach, but wind energy is not. So you're quite right that you can't get a net benefit from the relative wind you create from the vehicle's motion, but you can make it work on a windy day.
@@Rick_Cavallaro 👉🔴What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus? Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him). They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. The Quran confirms his virgin birth, and a chapter of the Quran is entitled ‘Maryam’ (Mary). The Quran describes the birth of Jesus as follows: (Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47) Jesus was born miraculously by the command of God, the same command that had brought Adam into being with neither a father nor a mother. God has said: The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being. (Quran, 3:59) During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. God tells us that Jesus said: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49) Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said: ...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157) Neither Muhammad nor Jesus came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but rather to confirm and renew it.
Magnets! You need to implement magnets. Somewhere, somehow, magnets are always the answer.. Maybe if we coat the car in the right plastic, the air flowing over it will produce enough static energy to power an electro-magnet which we can use to spin the blades!
In the 1990's an aerospace company had an idea to add a "windmill" at each wingtip of a transport airplane. The windmill would be at the trailing edge of the wing tip and would take energy from the wing tip vortex--the vortex is the result of the wing generating lift and is always present if there is lift. The vortex creates drag--that's why modern Boeing and Airbus airliners have winglets on the tips of the wing. A windmill could absorb some of this vortex which would reduce drag AND the windmill, tied to an electric generator, could feed power to the aircraft electrical system to power seat back screens, for example. Not perpetual motion, but a reduction in overall energy consumed. Perhaps a windmill in the right location on a specifically design auto could have the same benefit?
That is specific to wing design. The wing tips cause issues and you must break up the air. It's probably more efficient overall to just use a better design than a prop. Otherwise you'd see every plane with a prop there. Even if it's close, not worth the extra weight or complexity. As far as a car, you don't have anything near the speeds or desings of airplane wings to even think about it.
Commercial aircraft do employ a small emergency power unit that deploys in case of a loss of electrical power. It's a small fan that pops out from under the fuselage and generates electricity from the wind - just enough to keep their flight instruments working.
@@sixstanger00 Yes--good point. In fact, Sundstrand Aerospace, the same company that designs and manufactures the emergency power units (aka RATs...Ram Air Turbine) that you describe, also did some work on the vortex/wing tip generators.
It depends. You can gain energy if the car aerofynamics are shit from the start and you put the turbine in frobt of the vehicle instead of on the roof.
I wasn't necessarily expecting a wind powered vehicle, per se. I think what I was more interested in was whether this could operate the same way that brakes do in electric cars--braking doesn't allow you to drive an electric car indefinitely, it simply increases your mileage sightly by allowing some of the energy regained from braking to recharge the battery.
But would that add anything more than the regen braking already does? Or would it decrease it's effectiveness by losing momentum to the air-resistance and rotation of the fan?
@@rodericklenz5030 A wind turbine can not be nearly as efficient for regeneration as using the motors as generators. Also, the motors are already there, no extra hardware needed.
The key to regenerative breaking is that it takes advantage of waste heat. Friction that just creates wasted energy as heat in a normal car. The wind over your car is not wasted energy. You must create that to move. If you try to take away from it your car jut has to work harder.
@@Ides385 that's not actually how regenerative braking works with EVs, in fact EV braking works quite differently to braking for an ICE vehicle. You can't use friction to arrest the motion of an electric motor. All that actually does is decreases the resistance of the coils and increases their current draw. If you arrest it to the point where the spindle can't rotate at all, the motor effectively becomes a short-circuit, which is bad. And if no power is being transmitted to the motor when you arrest it, you've still got a conductor moving through a changing magnetic field, which will induce current, which is bad. EV regenerative breaking works by "reversing" the circuit and using the motors as generators, directly converting the momentum of the vehicle into electrical energy. Due to conservation of energy, converting momentum to electrical energy means momentum is "lost" and the vehicle slows down. If you're here watching the action lab, I'm sure you've seen videos of magnets being dropped through copper tubes and floating spookily down. This is the same principle. Now the caveat to this is that this kind of braking only works at relatively higher speeds and can't bring a vehicle to a complete stop, so once an EV slows to the point where gravity, friction, momentum, and electrical energy coming out of the motor are at equilibrium the car won't slow any further. At this point EVs DO use friction brakes to bring the car to a complete stop and lock the wheels, but these are at speeds low enough where it won't damage the motor or it's control circuit. (Sources: I'm an electrical engineer and worked on regenerative braking systems in my postgrad year).
You're the teacher that knows the subject well and can create a moment of appreciation for it out of thin air. Also you're a true scientist and open to test "ridiculous" ideas using the "scientific method". Your content is great! Keep up🎉
see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies. What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work. So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated: Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them. In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph. In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge. In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds. It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine. Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.
@@WIZ56575 Actually, you just need to watch the video and make your own conclusion. Some things in this video are debatable. However what is true in it is that you can't make a car that would be moving by the power that is generated by the wind when the wind is only the result of a car moving itself. The examples that you give are for the cars that use the wind of an outside source (wind caused by natural phenomena). And this is of course possible.
@@d4slaimless Again what I've been telling everyone this is an old technology it's already been proven it's already been done and I have to keep giving people information like this, there are a few cars that were built with turbines within the body of cars to produce any type of energy. Here are a few examples: Chrysler Turbine Car: This experimental car was produced by Chrysler from 1963-1964. It was powered by a turbine engine that could run on any type of fuel, including gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and even vegetable oil. The car was not commercially successful, but it is considered a milestone in the development of alternative fuel vehicles. Rover JET1: This car was produced by Rover in the early 1960s. It was also powered by a turbine engine, but it was designed for racing rather than for everyday use. The car was not very successful, but it helped to pave the way for the development of more advanced turbine-powered cars. Toyota Fine- 1: This car was produced by Toyota in the late 1980s. It was powered by a small turbine engine that was used to generate electricity to power the car's electric motors. The car was not commercially successful, but it was considered a testbed for Toyota's hybrid electric vehicle technology. These are just a few examples of cars that were built with turbines within the body of cars to produce any type of energy. While these cars were not all commercially successful, they helped to pave the way for the development of more advanced turbine-powered cars that are now being developed by automakers around the world.
@@WIZ56575 the examples you give here are gas turbines (jet engines) not wind turbines as in your original Post. The gas turbine is an internal engine to the vehicle just just as a diesel engine would be. These are a completely different situation to mounting a wind turbine on a vehicle..
@william breen Don't understand why you think the jokes on me when I've been adamantly telling everyone the same thing,I agree with you that wind-powered vehicles are possible, and I think they have the potential to be a more sustainable and environmentally friendly alternative to traditional vehicles. The equation you provided, Power = Force x Speed, is correct. The power of a wind-powered vehicle is determined by the force of the wind and the speed of the vehicle. The force of the wind can be calculated using the following equation: Force = (1/2) x ρ x A x v^2 where ρ is the density of the air, A is the area of the sail or propeller, and v is the speed of the wind. The speed of the vehicle can be calculated using the following equation: Speed = v = (2 x Power / Force) ^ 0.5 where Power is the power of the wind-powered vehicle, and Force is the force of the wind. The number of wind-powered vehicles that are currently in use is relatively small, but this number is expected to grow in the future. This is due to the increasing awareness of the environmental benefits of wind power.
I think the veritasium faster than the wind buggy (also sailboats) have some relevance to this subject. I.e. we can extract useful energy from the wind given the correct setup. But on a windless day you won't move.
@@Rick_Cavallaro He could be right, if the wind turbine and generator and DC voltage conversion aren't all that efficient. In particular, the generator produces a voltage too high for the battery, and so even if the turbine and generator were fairly efficient (possible but not a sure bet for something marketed as a scam), an awful lot of energy might be lost right there. It is possible to make a good DC-to-DC voltage converter, but I suspect that a cheapo remote-controlled car won't have a good one.
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio >> He could be right, if the wind turbine and generator and DC voltage conversion aren't all that efficient. But that's not what he said. He said it can't even work on a windy day - and it definitely can. Sure you can come up with a system that's too inefficient to work, but what does that tell you?
@@Rick_Cavallaro What I mean is that he might be right about it not working on a windy day if the system is inefficient enough that the drag when the wind is enough to give enough power for this is enough to prevent the car from moving and/or forces it to use more energy than it gets. I don't think he made it that way on purpose, but when using cheap components, it might end up that way.
@@ZartaxtheWise It was a different scenario, he attached the turbine in front of the car, so he didn't increase the frontal area of the car, which creates drag. So in that case it might work
@@stefanmelich9886 No because the drag is due to the energy used to turn the blades. If he got to net zero either his meter was wrong or he was lying. It's imposable
@@maxpayne2574 in the right conditions (extreme wind) you could end up net positive. Though you'd get even further if you just charged from standstill and then removed the fan.. and if such conditions were so common you'd be better off with a deployable sail..
Sorry, you cannot, in this house we accept the thermodynamics laws. The energy generated by the turbine comes from the movement of the car and this is coming from gasoline or car battery and even worse, the increased drag from the turbine increases the fuel/battery consumption.
Now there's a case to be made for adding windmills to electric or hybrid vehicles, to recharge their batteries while they're parked. Sure, it might not be a lot of charge, but it could be used to cool down the vehicle while it's sitting in the sun, or to slowly recharge it in a grid-down scenario like if the power is down due to a blizzard. Adding a small solar panel and a small wind turbine to vehicles, which would fold down when not in use, would help with that, even if it's providing barely enough power to keep the fans going while it's hot and sunny outside, or barely enough to charge your phone to make emergency calls.
The one thing that could maybe make sense is having a car batter charged by a wind turbine while parked, assuming the turbine is put away while driving. This is the same idea as the new Prius that has a solar panel on the roof - it’s not nearly enough power to keep you going while driving, but it is enough to add some modest mileage while parked in the sun for hours
Free energy: 1) place garbage on the kerb 2) install rat and/or cockroach trap around 3) kill rats/cockroaches humanely 4) dry them out 5) dry distill them 6) run it in a diesel engine
I think it might be possible to get a small amount of energy by using a turbine in the vortex behind a car. It might also have an added benefit of disrupting the low pressure drag behind the car. I think a small diameter paddle wheel the width of a trunk on the edge of the trunk might work.
Energy can't be created or destroyed, so the energy the car puts into the forward motion, creating the wind that is turned into energy given back to the car, minus energy loss to friction. So you actually LOSE energy by doing this.
see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies. What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work. So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated: Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them. In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph. In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge. In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds. It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine. Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.
I got this idea, Bernoulli's principle is the faster a fluid move, the lower the pressure. What if we put a turbine facing perpendicular to the direction of the moving direction and placed partially inside a car (only the face of the fan is visible outside). When the car moves, the air around the car will be moving fast, thus a lower pressure compare to the atmosphere. The difference in pressure will spin the turbine without creating much resistant, right?
wouldn't be the same issue only in a more complex setup? Any fluid perturbation you are doing that will power your fan will be caused by the car moving itself which mean the energy dissipated to create that vortex will always be greater than the energy you will be able to extract and you will end up with a less efficient car The design might be better at extracting energy from ambient wind though (especially if it doesn't require a specific direction for the wind to blow) so maybe an option for recharging battery on an e-car while parked (though you would need to leave on a very windy place for it to be worth)
But then you won't generate much power. You can't have free energy. To get energy from the wind mill, you have to add more power to overcome the added drag. To put it simply - the "wind" that drives the windmill is directly "created" by moving the car forward. Thus any power created by the spinning windmill has to be put into the system from the car's battery in the first place. You can use something like this to take advantage of wind in the environment (as he says in the video) but it would take very strong wind to be at all useful. And if you were trying to use this on a full size car for people, the windmill would have to be large, and the drag at freeway speeds would be far more than any possible benefit (unless you were driving in hurricane force ambient winds.)
@@AnonymousFreakYT You can create a design that reduces the energy required by the vehicle by putting the turbine in front of the vehicle. This would not be windmill powered but rather i crease efficiency through the windmill.
I think this way the propellers will generate a huge turbulence inside the car that will induce almost the same amount of drag as if u placed it perpendicularly, also this way the momentum of the car will be deducted from the momentum of the propellers cuz now they are moving on the same axis of motion but in opposite directions
Keep in mind that voltage you measure is with the generator unloaded, which is a VERY different situation than when it's loaded, i.e. actually using power
Imagine it's a difference between running without anything and running while pulling a semi truck. You wil be slower. Because the friction in the semi truck wheels draws energy from you.
for everyone who has been following this, it seems that the person in question didn't take into account the calculation of losses and didn't include a step-up mechanism to account for those losses. They attempted to do everything directly, but let me explain something: we don't even get direct energy from gasoline. It has to go through a process, and there are numerous losses in those processes that are often not discussed. Additionally, your car is only around 70% efficient, which is quite low. So, what would have been a better approach? One possibility is utilizing a car that runs on batteries. Here's an alternative method: take the windmill and use it to charge an independent battery. Then, you can switch back and discharge that battery while the other one is charging. It's essential to note that this is not the only technology available. There are other options such as using an air core and various other techniques to help mitigate the occurrence of backing EMF (electromotive force).
actually if there is enough wind it is possible to extract enough energy from the wind to move the car, even going against the wind. A few madmen built a working prototype, veritassium has a video on it. It shouldn't be too surprising, as that's how sailboats work
The blackbird concept vehicle in that veritasium video was moving downwind, not against the wind. With tacking, sailboats/sailcraft can sail tangentially, but not directly upwind. The angles against the wind which can't physically be sailed against is known as the "no sail zone". That is to say you cannot extract enough energy from a direct headwind to move forward.
@@Spencergolde No, it could move moving both downwind and upwind, they demonstrated both. The blades of the propeller are at an angle so they have the same motion relative to the wind as a sailboat sailing at an angle againd the wind
Veritassium wasn't trying to prove that a vehicle-powered by wind alone-can move _against_ the wind. In fact, he was trying to prove that a vehicle-powered solely by the blowing wind-can move _faster_ than the wind itself. He even won thousands of dollars in a bet against a university professor who said that's impossible.
It's the same thing discussed here though - you can't generate more power from the wind while you move than from the power the wind at standstill would create. In order to get the efficiency from the wind you just need to make the turbine more efficient than the ambient wind - the drag. Of course it's possible with the right conditions, but it's likely never worthwhile when all conditions are taken into account
The only way to efficiently transfer energy from the wind to a vehicle is through a sail, which makes sense since it’s the simplest system for transference of wind energy.
Okay hear me out. Most cars get back draft right? Put the turbine or turbines on the back of the car facing backwards. Then you wont have a net loss because that wind is pushing you forward right? In theory this wont necessarily make you use no power but it would extend your battery life by a decent margin. This would probably only really work for a full scale electric vehicle.
Great analogy ! Of course i knew the increased air resistance is exactly the problem of adding a wind mill on a car. Well explained ! I like the fact that you don't actually just say it's fake right from start and you actually build a sort of tension.
You could just flip the fan over that would cause less air drag and give more thrust the rc car would move easily with charging the battery and going at more speed
why not make simple things extremely complicated and then complain about reliability. There is really no added benefit to add any windmill into a well aerodynamic tuned electric car that can regenerate. Its far more easier and net efficient to use wind turbines in a grid.
The cat would need to know how long the hill is, and the deployment and removal process would need to use less power than it might produce. It would probably be the complicated part of the car, add a huge cost, and be useless for 99.9% of the population
@@LaggerSVK I wasn't proposing this actually be done. It's just a thought experiment, which is what you do in science. This is basically what some hybrid vehicles do (although not with windmills). They recoup some of their kinetic energy during the braking process.
But you could use your fan/generator as a sail :) ( Weelll a sail would work better.... ) Veritasium did a video on this where his design of a land sail boat travels faster than the wind.
see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies. What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work. So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated: Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them. In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph. In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge. In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds. It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine. Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.
@@WIZ56575 To say "powered by wind turbine" isn't enough information. You can do it. But, considering power loses, does it make sense? A system has several inputs and outputs. When you add them up, it doesn't make sense - with respect to the alternatives.
As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew exactly why you created it. There were way too many comments in the last video asking about this specific question that didn't understand that this violates the second law of thermodynamics.
@@Rick_Cavallaro MAYBE a talented engineer could work out some details to harness outside wind in the process, but I still think the drag from the car's own motion would overall reduce efficiency below the energy harvested.
@@Rick_Cavallaro I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I have a PhD in Mathematics and have definitely been around some people who do the seemingly impossible, leaving people mystified. I see you acknowledge it would require outside influences, which is the only thing necessary to not violate the second law of thermodynamics. I don't know a lot of physics, but I'd be curious to read your work if it is publicly accessible.
There is another aspect I have always wondered though. All of these ideas assume adding it outside the airstream of the car like you did here. However, cars have a certain amount of drag without a turbine on them at all. I am wondering if you could size a turbine placed in front of the car in such a way that it equals the drag that the car would have felt but goes into the turbine instead and effectively recuperate some of the energy that was being lost to drag.
There are very few areas of direct drag on modern cars, as most of them are streamlined to mitigate that, even the grille, which receives most of the perpendicular force. However, adding any turbines to those areas that DO have drag would increase the drag, as now there would be multiple surfaces causing friction, and the turbulence induced by the turbine would interfere with the streamlined airflow around the car, which was designed without the additional friction surfaces, and lead to further resistance rather than flowing smoothly around the car.
@@ntsure2436 those are in fact all thoughts that have occurred to me and one day when I get bored maybe I'll do some fluid modeling and see if there's any way it makes sense. The flow coming out of the turbine being turbulent probably does mean it will just drag on the car anyway and increase the drag but I was curious.
Maybe if you put it inside the vehicle where air is already being channeled behind the grill. Probably not a lot to be gained but it's theoretically possible.
@@megamaser if it passes through the grille, then it eventually bounces against the radiator/engine/fender wells. Guys, it's the law of conservation of energy we're talking about here. You're not going to get something fpr nothing. Might as well try to build a perpetual motion machine.
@@ntsure2436 It's not something for nothing. It's not perpetual motion. It's about improving aerodynamic efficiency. The energy that would be lost by deflecting air against the engine block can instead be partially recaptured by deflecting it first against a fan blade.
I always wonder if we can do this, like adding wind turbines, adding solar panels on top, using a motor generator that can be added to wheels, thermal to electriciry convertor near the hot end of engine and still etc... 😅
The car may float, as the vacuum chamber adds lift? Something to work on. Also a magnifying glass roof to send heat to the vacuum chamber. The hotter the chamber the less drag on wheels? The car may float one day😂
Could one invent apertures at the front of the car which suck in air to supply the vacuum tank. I reckon that an onboard energy system can be made independent of the air force (friction) coming in.. Is this bad pysics???
how about diy iron-copper(air) in copper sulphate in water solution battery about 1.1V, iron should be cheap to just put in a battery, as strips/sheet per kilogram, at 0.1$/kg (100$/kg-ton), reaction CuSO4+Fe->FeSO4+Cu (iron instead of zinc).
I've seen mainstream tv to show more than once someone demoing a perpetual motion machine as if the "inventors" were geniuses. I wish your video were shown in every journalism college worldwide.
My long time idea has been proved ineffective 😅and i am very much happy for that as i have learnt now the result of it. 🙂 Thank you very much for your experiments are keep on increasing curiosity to people all around the world, literally 🙏🏻
It couldnt create a perpetual motion machine cause that's impossible but I think it can be tuned to maybe slightly increase mileage. Would it be practical/worth it? Probably not
Obviously, you can’t create a self sustaining reaction, thanks thermodynamics. However, this can work, Quint Builds did this, but with an important difference: use the fan in front, which then reduces the loses due to wind resistance. In essence, take the energy that would be lost from wind resistance, and convert it to some other form, electricity.
There was a Hybrid Renault a few years ago here in Europe that had wind turbines recharging the batteries with the wind when speeding up the car! I think it was a concept car because i can't remember seeing it. It was a genius idea, more cars should have it, alongside the kinetic ones.
With the turbine placed right in front of the car and not make it larger than the frontal area of the car, this can actually save some energy. That's because some air that would otherwise just hit the car it self and contribute to nothing but drag, will now hit the turbine instead, where a part of it is retrieved as electric energy (which can then be used for a small electric motor that helps drive wheels and reduce fuel consumption - or for an electric car the generator output could simply help feed the motor/motors, so they pull slightly less current from the battery). But of course, the energy output from the turbine can never reach the same or exceed the total energy lost by drag - the car will always use more energy to overcome air resistance, than what's coming back from the turbine. But it could lower the energy consumption lost by drag slightly. I guess the savings are not so great that it's worth the added cost and complexity of building cars with wind turbines though. At least not when going at legal speeds in most countries (I guess those of who like to go fast and don't give a shit about speed limits would benefit more from it though, haha - smaller wind turbines can be made more efficient at high wind speeds and the energy lost to drag as well as the saving that could be made, goes up with the square of the speed)
Maybe we could use a horizontal wind turbine that generates energy instead of a vertical one - for example, on the roof of a car, along with a special tunnel that would push air while driving, additionally generating downforce like a spoiler. But I guess it won't change anything. Super experiment.
"Engineering with Rosie" explained it fairly well - the wheels power the propeller (it isn't a wind turbine in this application), the whole thing begins by being blown downwind by drag (a popout "drag sail/flap" on the mast would increase this initially) - as the speed increases, so does the thrust developed by the propeller (RPM increasing linearly with speed, thrust will increase once a "critical RPM is reached), until zero apparent wind) The propeller produces thrust back against the prevailing wind leading to acceleration, even beyond the point of zero apparent wind experienced at the vehicle body. The equations balance out at "some terminal velocity" relative to the energy provided by the wind, where drag (from the now oncoming apparent wind) equals the total thrust available from the wind acting on the swept area of the propeller - with L/D ratio most likely exceeding 10 - the design was optimised for fairly low speeds, with a wide blade to get a "bigger bite " of the air.... (yes explanations can be tricky - no thermodynamics laws were broken there). The same craft (should be able) could go dead upwind too, not as fast however, there are videos of up-and back propeller land sailing on dykes in Holland.
This was my 5th grade science project/ invention. I placed second. The egghead that beat me came up with an irrigation system that is now being used today. Kid was super smart. I didn't think mine even deserved 2nd. I was more impressed with the spinning spaghetti fork.
What if a car had solar panels on the roof? Would that help the battery to last longer? (Not indefinitely) but there wouldn’t be any extra air resistance?
Yes it would last longer, but it's not magic. The difference there, if I'm not mistaken, is that you're taking energy from the Sun's radiation, not the car. If you use the car's power to move the turbine, the car will have less energy to move and is going to be slower. With solar panels, you're using the Sun's power, and the car isn't exactly making the Sun brighter by moving, so the car siphons the Sun's energy for itself. Energy is being conserved in both cases, but in the latter case the energy is lost on the sunbeams' side alone
Solar would work, but you'd need an entire roof of solar to make a couple hundred of watts. But we're talking like 1 percent of charge (or less) by leaving it somewhere in direct sun for a few days. It takes a lot of power to drive a car.
Look at Aptera motors for an EV concept that is covered in solar panels. The practical problem with solar on a vehicle is the limit of surface area along with non-optimal positioning making the panels not contribute much. I still like solar on an EV from an emergency standpoint though, but its important to understand what you're actually getting out of them.
More complicated than it sounds. It works, but for a lot of the users the vastly increased weight, and extra cost and complexity, makes in not worthwhile. For people who travel short distances to work, then leave the car in the sun all day, definitely a benefit. But for people who drive longer distances, or park their cars in a sheltered area, it becomes expensive and likely a reduction in energy from the weight. Someone mentioned on another post that any benefit you get is likely outweighed by the benefit you'd have simply putting a solar panel in the roof of your house to offset the cost of the charge at home. As a range extender for a long trip it wouldn't be worthwhile, and possibly less efficient considering the weight
Since I have a Tesla, many people asked me why I don't install a wind generator so I could drive forever. As an engineer I tried to explain to them exactly what you showed in the video. But after a while I stopped doing this because it became exhausting. Too many people don't understand physics...
Kinda similar thing exists for airplanes, called the ram air turbine, although it doesn't power propulsion, it's for providing power to the instruments and flight controls in an emergency.
Have you ever heard of the blackbird? It's a vehicle design that is capable of moving faster than the wind pushing it. It's actually insane that it works at all.
Thank you for tirelessly educating people on your channel! PS: Instead of a wind turbine, what actually works is to put solar cells on an electric car. The solar energy is not enough to power a car continuously, but enough to add a few km of range per day. This sounds compelling for people who use their car only like once a week. But then again, it might make more sense to put much cheaper solar cells on your house roof instead of carrying them everywhere with the car as extra weight and cost.
I do think there is a market for solar panels on cars. The weight is definitely substantial, but for people who drive a relatively short distance to work, and park the car outside, it could be more than worthwhile. But your point about just having them at home to offset the regular charging is probably just the better option
The subject is really tricky to explain well and not write off a bunch of engineers. I think you did good! Although a little bit more about drag's force relative to the entire mass of the machine would've probably cleared up some of the confusion I see in the comments. Alternatively, some people will worship their vehicles like children, so maybe you can only teach so much.
The bicycle usecase is actually a valid one. You are not using a battery but your own energy to power it. Which is fine. Same as putting a generator on the wheel axle itself.
As much as I like Windmills, what if we added a solar panel instead of a windmill? The solar panel can change while the car is moving, without causing wind resistance. Would it?
15 years or so ago, I worked at a local computer repair shop when one day this guy roars up to the building and jumps out of his Jeep with a mess of wires and parts, and as he walked through the door, I noticed he had on a magnifying headset. Oh brother... He needed someone to solder a bunch of hi power transistors for some project he was working on. So I call out the boss from his cave since this is definitely in his wheelhouse, and after a few minutes of discussion, we find out he's working on this exact idea presented in the video and claims to have modified a Peterbilt tractor to run using a similar but hugely scaled up version. We both knew he was missing a few but fixed his problem and he went on his merry way. He offered for anyone to come to his 'shop' and check it out. The boss did and he saw a bunch of junk under tarps but nothing actually working. Ah well, one day we'll crack it. 😁😂 I met some really interesting people at that shop and the 'nutty professor' as we nicknamed him was the clear winner. Another guy claimed to have worked with electronic engineers laying out some of the first LSI IC's on the floor drawn on paper. He also claimed to have invented sideways oil drilling that was being using in the Gulf.
What if the turbine charged a battery that wasnt being used then switched when the battery is low? Trying to charge a battery thats being used drains faster then its charged... supposedly but idk.... maybe
but what if you put the wind turbine behind the front grill of the car? The front grill acts like an intake to cool the engine, AC, batteries etc. so using the same airflow could power the wind turbine.
For those who believed it would work: Hang a currency note at the end of a stick and hold the stick out in front of you. Now chase the money. Good luck !
I had thought of this concept too, I was thinking of trying it on a pedal bike, have the fan blades covering the cross section/areas that have to pass the airflow anyway, such as the front wheel, handle bars, the biggest restriction to the wind probably being the rider so maybe a fan duct and visor arrangement to cover that?
Due to the Betz limit on the efficiency a turbine can operate at in a moving fluid, which is at most about 59.8%, you will never physically generate enough power to compete with a more aerodynamic shape which reduces overall drag. You are probably right that there would be a way to recapture some of the wasted drag force to reduce drag, but the turbine design isn't the way to do it. And again, you'd be hard pressed to find a means of competing with a simple aerodynamic profile, which has no moving parts or extra weight
@@Spencergolde I believe Robert Murray Smith was working on a turbine design that appeared to operate beyond the Betz limit, not sure if it was backed up?
@david bone I only know of Robert Murray Smith from his reputation as a UA-cam science breakthrough scammer, I would put very little faith in any claims coming from him. The Betz coefficient was calculated for the extraction of an idealized fluid moving through a cross section, but the underlying limit is just newtonian physics. If you extracted 100% of the energy from a fluid stream, it would come to a stand still, and you would then have fluid running into non-moving fluid, which would stop the stream. Another way of looking at it is that the stream backs-up, and can't supply more energy. The best engineers have spent decades perfecting today's wind turbines, which are only capturing ~70-80% of the Betz limit in ideal conditions
Having an air inlet in the car bonnet could significantly reduce drag. Almost acting like a water wheel but the concentrated air flow could spin and store the energy. Agree that this could supplement and not replace energy used.
You can design the propeller that is more aerodynamic to decrease resistant. Also you can design it to have a solar roof as well so you are charging while parked with no wind.
Even those bicycle lights with the little generator that rides against the tire require extra force on the peddle to propel the bike forward. If you use the movement of the vehicle to provide additional power, there is a trade off.
If you put it backwards, it makes sense, otherwise, you remember what happened in the Mythbusters when they blow their own sail in that episode, they test with the fans first before putting on the sail.
I would opt out and put a closed wind turbine on each side and the turbine would act as a constant charger! I would have loved this when I was in middle school as a project!
Just use the turning of the wheels to produce energy, (also I have thought about doing a Wind mill on a car to generate power would be such a good invention, now I know it is not so much)
Thing is, the energy losses add up as you add more complexity to the system. Here the car battery's chemical energy goes to kinetic energy, then into work done turning the turbine, to electricity, back to the battery. On the other hand, if you mounted just a fan, no wires or tape or generator, it could work like a gyropter. As the motion turns the propeller, the propeller starts to slightly decrease the drag the car experiences, as it is now actively functioning as a propeller. So you may not recapture all your energy (or even a significant amount of it), you can make it marginally more efficient with some surprisingly simple additions.
There is a different window powered car that can travel faster than the wind. It is not hard to make a model version. I wish you would have shown this in the video. It is called 'Blackbird'. The physics behind it are amazing.
With worm gearing that is geared low enough and driven by a tiny coreless motor, you could easily crawl forward into the very wind that is generating the power.
Some guy made a video about that. He was able to power an electric stove with the 1Kw of power he got from the turbine. He designed the turbine out of carbon fiber so it help up pretty well against high car speeds and acceleration.
I think the thing a lot of people miss about wind turbines is that they're _not_ free-spinning. Generators resist spinning as they start powering something; if you've never ridden a bicycle generator, you can physically feel this resistance as the load is increased. So the wind turbine moving through the air isn't spinning as fast as it should be at that wind speed, because there's a load (the car's motor and electronics), and that means it's providing a bunch of air resistance.
This is true, but it's not that simple. Consider a helicopter in autorotation (i.e. gliding with engine out). If you put drag on the blades and bring them to a stop, you fall like a rock. But if you let them free spin, applying no torque at all on the shaft, you can glide to Earth at a nice leisurely pace.
@@Rick_Cavallaro Yeah, propellers are complicated, but just the fact that the motor resists turning under load does mean that the air resistance will be a significant factor. It's an intuitive thing that I think a lot of people who haven't worked with generators don't have a feel for; they see a propeller spinning and think it's like a pinwheel that has next to no spinning resistance that also generates power... More to the point, when you put a helicopter into autorotation, you detach it from the engine and alternator and reduce the drag on it as much as possible, to get it spinning as fast as you can. You need that angular momentum so you can flare the propeller near the ground and use that momentum to slow down just before the landing. If you were also using it to power a load, you'd have way less momentum.
A more fair comparison would be to keep the turbine on the car but disconnecting it from supplying the car. This is because the resistance from the turbine also accounts for the amps that was drawn from the battery
Car coated in a material that would behave the same as a Van Der Graff generator would be something nice. You do not add drag, just borrow electrons form the air and put them in the batteries 😅
I made a video of doing this years ago, I used a 3d printed 18 blade shrouded propeller found free on thingivers_ with a diameter of 400mm. I paired it with a high power scooter brushed dc motor as a generator, and was able to produce 200-400 watts above 45mph, and it worked all the way to 120mph! I used the current to run a browns gas (HHO) wet cell to inject hydrogen and oxygen into the engine for increased fuel mileage and internal engine cleaning. It worked a treat until my Saturn car gave up the ghost at 320,000 miles
I feel like this could be optimized to extend range if the turbine was spun by aero under the car and through concentrated air intake channels. this combined with re-gen braking and solar panel implementation would heavily improve range, covering most commutes alone. of course the tech is new and improving, but I think their is some potential with all three. also if not with direct wind im sure someone can come up with a turbo like device that would spool up and discharge its energy through a drive. I guess the trick is to create a turbine with the most torque per rotation with the least amount of drag on its blades.
It is theoretically possible to increase efficiency by changing the aerodynamic properties. The big mistake here is that you significantly increased the cross section of the car. Obviously that wouldn't work. It's probably very difficult to get right but it's definitely possible to increase efficiency with something like this. The car is already losing energy due to drag. You may be able to collect some of that energy without adding as much drag. There may be some areas of the car that are wasting energy accelerating oncoming air to nearly the velocity of the car. All of that energy is converted to heat. You may be able to put a fan in that location and only have a minimal impact on overall drag of the vehicle because it's not increasing the cross sectional area. But then it may be collecting a lot of that energy that was previously lost due to drag. It's not perpetual motion. It's just an improvement of aerodynamic properties to reduce waste.
Maybe I just need a bigger turbine? Purpetual motion is always just out of reach...
Perpetual motion is always just out of reach, but wind energy is not. So you're quite right that you can't get a net benefit from the relative wind you create from the vehicle's motion, but you can make it work on a windy day.
Veritasium did a great video on that
wat if u put two windmills sideways vertically on both sides of the car sorta like a wings of a car
@@Rick_Cavallaro 👉🔴What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus?
Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him). They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. The Quran confirms his virgin birth, and a chapter of the Quran is entitled ‘Maryam’ (Mary). The Quran describes the birth of Jesus as follows:
(Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47)
Jesus was born miraculously by the command of God, the same command that had brought Adam into being with neither a father nor a mother. God has said:
The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being. (Quran, 3:59)
During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. God tells us that Jesus said:
“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49)
Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:
...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)
Neither Muhammad nor Jesus came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but rather to confirm and renew it.
Magnets! You need to implement magnets. Somewhere, somehow, magnets are always the answer..
Maybe if we coat the car in the right plastic, the air flowing over it will produce enough static energy to power an electro-magnet which we can use to spin the blades!
In the 1990's an aerospace company had an idea to add a "windmill" at each wingtip of a transport airplane. The windmill would be at the trailing edge of the wing tip and would take energy from the wing tip vortex--the vortex is the result of the wing generating lift and is always present if there is lift. The vortex creates drag--that's why modern Boeing and Airbus airliners have winglets on the tips of the wing. A windmill could absorb some of this vortex which would reduce drag AND the windmill, tied to an electric generator, could feed power to the aircraft electrical system to power seat back screens, for example. Not perpetual motion, but a reduction in overall energy consumed. Perhaps a windmill in the right location on a specifically design auto could have the same benefit?
That is specific to wing design. The wing tips cause issues and you must break up the air. It's probably more efficient overall to just use a better design than a prop. Otherwise you'd see every plane with a prop there. Even if it's close, not worth the extra weight or complexity.
As far as a car, you don't have anything near the speeds or desings of airplane wings to even think about it.
Maybe in a spoiler to also create downforce.
Not practical. You can instead use specific wingtips that make the vortices work in your favor and can actually counteract drag.
Commercial aircraft do employ a small emergency power unit that deploys in case of a loss of electrical power. It's a small fan that pops out from under the fuselage and generates electricity from the wind - just enough to keep their flight instruments working.
@@sixstanger00 Yes--good point. In fact, Sundstrand Aerospace, the same company that designs and manufactures the emergency power units (aka RATs...Ram Air Turbine) that you describe, also did some work on the vortex/wing tip generators.
Surely doing this produces more drag so it is more inefficient
wow u watched the video too? ur so genius
Yeah but it can recharge when it sit still therefore it's more efficient in the long run.
Lol ya thats what he said.
It depends. You can gain energy if the car aerofynamics are shit from the start and you put the turbine in frobt of the vehicle instead of on the roof.
Plus weight of generator
I wasn't necessarily expecting a wind powered vehicle, per se. I think what I was more interested in was whether this could operate the same way that brakes do in electric cars--braking doesn't allow you to drive an electric car indefinitely, it simply increases your mileage sightly by allowing some of the energy regained from braking to recharge the battery.
But would that add anything more than the regen braking already does? Or would it decrease it's effectiveness by losing momentum to the air-resistance and rotation of the fan?
@@rodericklenz5030 A wind turbine can not be nearly as efficient for regeneration as using the motors as generators. Also, the motors are already there, no extra hardware needed.
The key to regenerative breaking is that it takes advantage of waste heat. Friction that just creates wasted energy as heat in a normal car. The wind over your car is not wasted energy. You must create that to move. If you try to take away from it your car jut has to work harder.
@@Ides385 that's not actually how regenerative braking works with EVs, in fact EV braking works quite differently to braking for an ICE vehicle. You can't use friction to arrest the motion of an electric motor. All that actually does is decreases the resistance of the coils and increases their current draw. If you arrest it to the point where the spindle can't rotate at all, the motor effectively becomes a short-circuit, which is bad.
And if no power is being transmitted to the motor when you arrest it, you've still got a conductor moving through a changing magnetic field, which will induce current, which is bad.
EV regenerative breaking works by "reversing" the circuit and using the motors as generators, directly converting the momentum of the vehicle into electrical energy. Due to conservation of energy, converting momentum to electrical energy means momentum is "lost" and the vehicle slows down.
If you're here watching the action lab, I'm sure you've seen videos of magnets being dropped through copper tubes and floating spookily down. This is the same principle.
Now the caveat to this is that this kind of braking only works at relatively higher speeds and can't bring a vehicle to a complete stop, so once an EV slows to the point where gravity, friction, momentum, and electrical energy coming out of the motor are at equilibrium the car won't slow any further. At this point EVs DO use friction brakes to bring the car to a complete stop and lock the wheels, but these are at speeds low enough where it won't damage the motor or it's control circuit.
(Sources: I'm an electrical engineer and worked on regenerative braking systems in my postgrad year).
@@fishyerik Yes, the purpose of my question was to prompt the OP to think about these things.
You're the teacher that knows the subject well and can create a moment of appreciation for it out of thin air. Also you're a true scientist and open to test "ridiculous" ideas using the "scientific method".
Your content is great! Keep up🎉
see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies.
What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work.
So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated:
Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them.
In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph.
In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge.
In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge.
However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds.
It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine.
Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.
@@WIZ56575 Actually, you just need to watch the video and make your own conclusion. Some things in this video are debatable. However what is true in it is that you can't make a car that would be moving by the power that is generated by the wind when the wind is only the result of a car moving itself. The examples that you give are for the cars that use the wind of an outside source (wind caused by natural phenomena). And this is of course possible.
@@d4slaimless Again what I've been telling everyone this is an old technology it's already been proven it's already been done and I have to keep giving people information like this,
there are a few cars that were built with turbines within the body of cars to produce any type of energy. Here are a few examples:
Chrysler Turbine Car: This experimental car was produced by Chrysler from 1963-1964. It was powered by a turbine engine that could run on any type of fuel, including gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and even vegetable oil. The car was not commercially successful, but it is considered a milestone in the development of alternative fuel vehicles.
Rover JET1: This car was produced by Rover in the early 1960s. It was also powered by a turbine engine, but it was designed for racing rather than for everyday use. The car was not very successful, but it helped to pave the way for the development of more advanced turbine-powered cars.
Toyota Fine- 1: This car was produced by Toyota in the late 1980s. It was powered by a small turbine engine that was used to generate electricity to power the car's electric motors. The car was not commercially successful, but it was considered a testbed for Toyota's hybrid electric vehicle technology.
These are just a few examples of cars that were built with turbines within the body of cars to produce any type of energy. While these cars were not all commercially successful, they helped to pave the way for the development of more advanced turbine-powered cars that are now being developed by automakers around the world.
@@WIZ56575 the examples you give here are gas turbines (jet engines) not wind turbines as in your original Post. The gas turbine is an internal engine to the vehicle just just as a diesel engine would be. These are a completely different situation to mounting a wind turbine on a vehicle..
@william breen Don't understand why you think the jokes on me when I've been adamantly telling everyone the same thing,I agree with you that wind-powered vehicles are possible, and I think they have the potential to be a more sustainable and environmentally friendly alternative to traditional vehicles.
The equation you provided, Power = Force x Speed, is correct. The power of a wind-powered vehicle is determined by the force of the wind and the speed of the vehicle. The force of the wind can be calculated using the following equation:
Force = (1/2) x ρ x A x v^2
where ρ is the density of the air, A is the area of the sail or propeller, and v is the speed of the wind. The speed of the vehicle can be calculated using the following equation:
Speed = v = (2 x Power / Force) ^ 0.5
where Power is the power of the wind-powered vehicle, and Force is the force of the wind.
The number of wind-powered vehicles that are currently in use is relatively small, but this number is expected to grow in the future. This is due to the increasing awareness of the environmental benefits of wind power.
I think the veritasium faster than the wind buggy (also sailboats) have some relevance to this subject. I.e. we can extract useful energy from the wind given the correct setup. But on a windless day you won't move.
Correct. This is a good video, but he was mistaken when he said it won't work even on a windy day.
@@Rick_Cavallaro He could be right, if the wind turbine and generator and DC voltage conversion aren't all that efficient. In particular, the generator produces a voltage too high for the battery, and so even if the turbine and generator were fairly efficient (possible but not a sure bet for something marketed as a scam), an awful lot of energy might be lost right there. It is possible to make a good DC-to-DC voltage converter, but I suspect that a cheapo remote-controlled car won't have a good one.
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio
>> He could be right, if the wind turbine and generator and DC voltage conversion aren't all that efficient.
But that's not what he said. He said it can't even work on a windy day - and it definitely can. Sure you can come up with a system that's too inefficient to work, but what does that tell you?
@@Rick_Cavallaro What I mean is that he might be right about it not working on a windy day if the system is inefficient enough that the drag when the wind is enough to give enough power for this is enough to prevent the car from moving and/or forces it to use more energy than it gets. I don't think he made it that way on purpose, but when using cheap components, it might end up that way.
@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio That's not what he said.
Quint BUILDs made a full size test rig similar to this. You guys should collaborate being so local to one another!
And his rig did create a net positive compared to no windmill. So he increased the range.
@@ZartaxtheWise It was a different scenario, he attached the turbine in front of the car, so he didn't increase the frontal area of the car, which creates drag. So in that case it might work
That was the first thing I thought when I saw this video
@@stefanmelich9886 No because the drag is due to the energy used to turn the blades. If he got to net zero either his meter was wrong or he was lying. It's imposable
@@maxpayne2574 in the right conditions (extreme wind) you could end up net positive. Though you'd get even further if you just charged from standstill and then removed the fan.. and if such conditions were so common you'd be better off with a deployable sail..
Sorry, you cannot, in this house we accept the thermodynamics laws. The energy generated by the turbine comes from the movement of the car and this is coming from gasoline or car battery and even worse, the increased drag from the turbine increases the fuel/battery consumption.
Now there's a case to be made for adding windmills to electric or hybrid vehicles, to recharge their batteries while they're parked. Sure, it might not be a lot of charge, but it could be used to cool down the vehicle while it's sitting in the sun, or to slowly recharge it in a grid-down scenario like if the power is down due to a blizzard. Adding a small solar panel and a small wind turbine to vehicles, which would fold down when not in use, would help with that, even if it's providing barely enough power to keep the fans going while it's hot and sunny outside, or barely enough to charge your phone to make emergency calls.
I literally have been spending the last few months designing this specific tech
How's it going nowadays
The one thing that could maybe make sense is having a car batter charged by a wind turbine while parked, assuming the turbine is put away while driving. This is the same idea as the new Prius that has a solar panel on the roof - it’s not nearly enough power to keep you going while driving, but it is enough to add some modest mileage while parked in the sun for hours
what if there is no wind?
@@robinsssthey’ll wheel you out since you seem to be full of it😂😂😂
Depend of the configuration, you can use energy from wind, but your model is a inefficiency sinkhole for it.
You should try testing this with a crosswind and the windmill facing the crosswind to see what difference it makes.
Seems less efficient than just throwing a sail on your car and using the power directly
Free energy: 1) place garbage on the kerb 2) install rat and/or cockroach trap around 3) kill rats/cockroaches humanely 4) dry them out 5) dry distill them 6) run it in a diesel engine
I think it might be possible to get a small amount of energy by using a turbine in the vortex behind a car. It might also have an added benefit of disrupting the low pressure drag behind the car. I think a small diameter paddle wheel the width of a trunk on the edge of the trunk might work.
no, if you put something between the vortex, the vortex won't be produced
Energy can't be created or destroyed, so the energy the car puts into the forward motion, creating the wind that is turned into energy given back to the car, minus energy loss to friction. So you actually LOSE energy by doing this.
This is an awesome analysis! Thank you for your experiments and demonstrations!👏
Ur right
Did you even watch the video?
Yes I did
Rolls eyes
see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies.
What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work.
So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated:
Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them.
In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph.
In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge.
In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge.
However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds.
It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine.
Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.
0:59 - I love you, Action Lab. We need a super-cut of every surprize in the library.
I got this idea, Bernoulli's principle is the faster a fluid move, the lower the pressure. What if we put a turbine facing perpendicular to the direction of the moving direction and placed partially inside a car (only the face of the fan is visible outside). When the car moves, the air around the car will be moving fast, thus a lower pressure compare to the atmosphere. The difference in pressure will spin the turbine without creating much resistant, right?
wouldn't be the same issue only in a more complex setup? Any fluid perturbation you are doing that will power your fan will be caused by the car moving itself which mean the energy dissipated to create that vortex will always be greater than the energy you will be able to extract and you will end up with a less efficient car
The design might be better at extracting energy from ambient wind though (especially if it doesn't require a specific direction for the wind to blow) so maybe an option for recharging battery on an e-car while parked (though you would need to leave on a very windy place for it to be worth)
driving with the windows open creates drag
But then you won't generate much power. You can't have free energy. To get energy from the wind mill, you have to add more power to overcome the added drag.
To put it simply - the "wind" that drives the windmill is directly "created" by moving the car forward. Thus any power created by the spinning windmill has to be put into the system from the car's battery in the first place.
You can use something like this to take advantage of wind in the environment (as he says in the video) but it would take very strong wind to be at all useful.
And if you were trying to use this on a full size car for people, the windmill would have to be large, and the drag at freeway speeds would be far more than any possible benefit (unless you were driving in hurricane force ambient winds.)
@@AnonymousFreakYT You can create a design that reduces the energy required by the vehicle by putting the turbine in front of the vehicle. This would not be windmill powered but rather i crease efficiency through the windmill.
I think this way the propellers will generate a huge turbulence inside the car that will induce almost the same amount of drag as if u placed it perpendicularly, also this way the momentum of the car will be deducted from the momentum of the propellers cuz now they are moving on the same axis of motion but in opposite directions
*Timestamps for the video*
Start: 0:00
End: 7:16
Keep in mind that voltage you measure is with the generator unloaded, which is a VERY different situation than when it's loaded, i.e. actually using power
Can you elaborate? I have too little knowledge about electricity to understand your comment.
@@DoubleBob load means what it's generating is being used ie a motor. Vs unloaded meaning nothing is taking power from it
@Double Bob like in an old house when you turn on a vacuum the lights dim for a second
Imagine it's a difference between running without anything and running while pulling a semi truck. You wil be slower. Because the friction in the semi truck wheels draws energy from you.
@@DoubleBob It's like riding a bike downhill. Just because you can go fast when it's easy doesn't mean you can keep that up when it gets difficult
for everyone who has been following this, it seems that the person in question didn't take into account the calculation of losses and didn't include a step-up mechanism to account for those losses. They attempted to do everything directly, but let me explain something: we don't even get direct energy from gasoline. It has to go through a process, and there are numerous losses in those processes that are often not discussed.
Additionally, your car is only around 70% efficient, which is quite low. So, what would have been a better approach? One possibility is utilizing a car that runs on batteries. Here's an alternative method: take the windmill and use it to charge an independent battery. Then, you can switch back and discharge that battery while the other one is charging.
It's essential to note that this is not the only technology available. There are other options such as using an air core and various other techniques to help mitigate the occurrence of backing EMF (electromotive force).
actually if there is enough wind it is possible to extract enough energy from the wind to move the car, even going against the wind. A few madmen built a working prototype, veritassium has a video on it. It shouldn't be too surprising, as that's how sailboats work
Yes, indeed. Saw the video.
The blackbird concept vehicle in that veritasium video was moving downwind, not against the wind. With tacking, sailboats/sailcraft can sail tangentially, but not directly upwind. The angles against the wind which can't physically be sailed against is known as the "no sail zone". That is to say you cannot extract enough energy from a direct headwind to move forward.
@@Spencergolde No, it could move moving both downwind and upwind, they demonstrated both. The blades of the propeller are at an angle so they have the same motion relative to the wind as a sailboat sailing at an angle againd the wind
Veritassium wasn't trying to prove that a vehicle-powered by wind alone-can move _against_ the wind. In fact, he was trying to prove that a vehicle-powered solely by the blowing wind-can move _faster_ than the wind itself. He even won thousands of dollars in a bet against a university professor who said that's impossible.
It's the same thing discussed here though - you can't generate more power from the wind while you move than from the power the wind at standstill would create. In order to get the efficiency from the wind you just need to make the turbine more efficient than the ambient wind - the drag.
Of course it's possible with the right conditions, but it's likely never worthwhile when all conditions are taken into account
The only way to efficiently transfer energy from the wind to a vehicle is through a sail, which makes sense since it’s the simplest system for transference of wind energy.
wasnt there a veritasium video about a vehicle that was 100% powered by wind
Yeah but you could only really drive in super windy areas where the wind is blowing in front of you.
Haven't you heard about sail-ships? Wind-powered vehicles predate engine-powered vehicles by centuries.
It is possible, and has been done, but it's not terribly practical.
Okay hear me out. Most cars get back draft right? Put the turbine or turbines on the back of the car facing backwards. Then you wont have a net loss because that wind is pushing you forward right? In theory this wont necessarily make you use no power but it would extend your battery life by a decent margin. This would probably only really work for a full scale electric vehicle.
That zone above the back bumper where the wind swirls back against the car.
Great analogy ! Of course i knew the increased air resistance is exactly the problem of adding a wind mill on a car. Well explained ! I like the fact that you don't actually just say it's fake right from start and you actually build a sort of tension.
you become a sail which hurts eco because the energy you do gain back will be reused on top of more energy for you to move. lol
You could just flip the fan over that would cause less air drag and give more thrust the rc car would move easily with charging the battery and going at more speed
At times when a car goes downhill, a windmill could be deployed to both keep the car's momentum from getting too high and to recharge the battery
I think regenerative breaking is already too well established, uncomplicated and efficient to make this practical
why not make simple things extremely complicated and then complain about reliability. There is really no added benefit to add any windmill into a well aerodynamic tuned electric car that can regenerate. Its far more easier and net efficient to use wind turbines in a grid.
The cat would need to know how long the hill is, and the deployment and removal process would need to use less power than it might produce. It would probably be the complicated part of the car, add a huge cost, and be useless for 99.9% of the population
@@LaggerSVK I wasn't proposing this actually be done. It's just a thought experiment, which is what you do in science. This is basically what some hybrid vehicles do (although not with windmills). They recoup some of their kinetic energy during the braking process.
@@Spencergolde Yes, I agree. I don't think anyone seriously wants to put a windmill on a car. Just a thought experiment.
When I was watching the first of this video, I was thinking that I saw something like this last week and I need to go back and post this link. Wait...
But you could use your fan/generator as a sail :) ( Weelll a sail would work better.... ) Veritasium did a video on this where his design of a land sail boat travels faster than the wind.
see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies.
What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work.
So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated:
Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them.
In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph.
In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge.
In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge.
However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds.
It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine.
Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.
@@WIZ56575 To say "powered by wind turbine" isn't enough information. You can do it. But, considering power loses, does it make sense? A system has several inputs and outputs. When you add them up, it doesn't make sense - with respect to the alternatives.
As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew exactly why you created it. There were way too many comments in the last video asking about this specific question that didn't understand that this violates the second law of thermodynamics.
It only violates the 2nd law on a calm day.
@@Rick_Cavallaro MAYBE a talented engineer could work out some details to harness outside wind in the process, but I still think the drag from the car's own motion would overall reduce efficiency below the energy harvested.
@@mike1024.
>> MAYBE a talented engineer could work out some details to harness outside wind
I DID. And I won 4 world records in the process.
@@Rick_Cavallaro I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I have a PhD in Mathematics and have definitely been around some people who do the seemingly impossible, leaving people mystified. I see you acknowledge it would require outside influences, which is the only thing necessary to not violate the second law of thermodynamics. I don't know a lot of physics, but I'd be curious to read your work if it is publicly accessible.
There is another aspect I have always wondered though. All of these ideas assume adding it outside the airstream of the car like you did here. However, cars have a certain amount of drag without a turbine on them at all. I am wondering if you could size a turbine placed in front of the car in such a way that it equals the drag that the car would have felt but goes into the turbine instead and effectively recuperate some of the energy that was being lost to drag.
There are very few areas of direct drag on modern cars, as most of them are streamlined to mitigate that, even the grille, which receives most of the perpendicular force. However, adding any turbines to those areas that DO have drag would increase the drag, as now there would be multiple surfaces causing friction, and the turbulence induced by the turbine would interfere with the streamlined airflow around the car, which was designed without the additional friction surfaces, and lead to further resistance rather than flowing smoothly around the car.
@@ntsure2436 those are in fact all thoughts that have occurred to me and one day when I get bored maybe I'll do some fluid modeling and see if there's any way it makes sense. The flow coming out of the turbine being turbulent probably does mean it will just drag on the car anyway and increase the drag but I was curious.
Maybe if you put it inside the vehicle where air is already being channeled behind the grill. Probably not a lot to be gained but it's theoretically possible.
@@megamaser if it passes through the grille, then it eventually bounces against the radiator/engine/fender wells. Guys, it's the law of conservation of energy we're talking about here. You're not going to get something fpr nothing. Might as well try to build a perpetual motion machine.
@@ntsure2436 It's not something for nothing. It's not perpetual motion. It's about improving aerodynamic efficiency.
The energy that would be lost by deflecting air against the engine block can instead be partially recaptured by deflecting it first against a fan blade.
What happens if you have the windmill and you have a strong tail wind? Does the windmill act as an efficient sail with a tail wind?
I always wonder if we can do this, like adding wind turbines, adding solar panels on top, using a motor generator that can be added to wheels, thermal to electriciry convertor near the hot end of engine and still etc... 😅
yeah, nah. :P
What if we power a fan to the turbine and let the fan blow on the turbine so we can achieve perpetual energy
Very informative ❤
The car may float, as the vacuum chamber adds lift?
Something to work on.
Also a magnifying glass roof to send heat to the vacuum chamber. The hotter the chamber the less drag on wheels?
The car may float one day😂
Could one invent apertures at the front of the car which suck in air to supply the vacuum tank.
I reckon that an onboard energy system can be made independent of the air force (friction) coming in..
Is this bad pysics???
its a energy converter only (like gasoline thruster to electric)
try hot air (hot gas) as a fuel cell or battery gas state ion exchange salt/ion bridge
it seems to work like a heat van de graaf generator, sparking an arc, it also spikes arc like a leyden jar capacitor, under the aluminium dome
if you cant laser, or dont have conductive paint, then graphite pencil (for electroplating a conductive surface) works
how about diy iron-copper(air) in copper sulphate in water solution battery about 1.1V, iron should be cheap to just put in a battery, as strips/sheet per kilogram, at 0.1$/kg (100$/kg-ton), reaction CuSO4+Fe->FeSO4+Cu (iron instead of zinc).
solar concentration mirror over steel/plastic, silver acetate or copper acetate heating into mirror over steel plate
I've seen mainstream tv to show more than once someone demoing a perpetual motion machine as if the "inventors" were geniuses. I wish your video were shown in every journalism college worldwide.
Over unity machines never work... But maybe this time it will!
*You don't know what you're talking about.*
@@residue-er5dooo Whooosh
@@residue-er5dooo that's a bold claim.
Edit: he did not get the joke
@@dingo4530 *When you have knowledge you can make them.*
*Type in (sky news perpetual magnet generator). Then type in (free energy residue junkie)*
Awesome video! I thinks it’s very cool that you uploaded a new experiment based on inspiration from responses to your prev video.
My long time idea has been proved ineffective 😅and i am very much happy for that as i have learnt now the result of it. 🙂
Thank you very much for your experiments are keep on increasing curiosity to people all around the world, literally 🙏🏻
It couldnt create a perpetual motion machine cause that's impossible but I think it can be tuned to maybe slightly increase mileage. Would it be practical/worth it? Probably not
Obviously, you can’t create a self sustaining reaction, thanks thermodynamics. However, this can work, Quint Builds did this, but with an important difference: use the fan in front, which then reduces the loses due to wind resistance. In essence, take the energy that would be lost from wind resistance, and convert it to some other form, electricity.
There was a Hybrid Renault a few years ago here in Europe that had wind turbines recharging the batteries with the wind when speeding up the car! I think it was a concept car because i can't remember seeing it. It was a genius idea, more cars should have it, alongside the kinetic ones.
The 1st problem is that it’s a Renault
@@kingsolomon1841 gold 😂
With the turbine placed right in front of the car and not make it larger than the frontal area of the car, this can actually save some energy.
That's because some air that would otherwise just hit the car it self and contribute to nothing but drag, will now hit the turbine instead, where a part of it is retrieved as electric energy (which can then be used for a small electric motor that helps drive wheels and reduce fuel consumption - or for an electric car the generator output could simply help feed the motor/motors, so they pull slightly less current from the battery).
But of course, the energy output from the turbine can never reach the same or exceed the total energy lost by drag - the car will always use more energy to overcome air resistance, than what's coming back from the turbine. But it could lower the energy consumption lost by drag slightly.
I guess the savings are not so great that it's worth the added cost and complexity of building cars with wind turbines though. At least not when going at legal speeds in most countries (I guess those of who like to go fast and don't give a shit about speed limits would benefit more from it though, haha - smaller wind turbines can be made more efficient at high wind speeds and the energy lost to drag as well as the saving that could be made, goes up with the square of the speed)
Eww! I *hope* it was only a concept car, but even as a concept, I'd be ashamed to work for a company which produced such a thing.
Maybe we could use a horizontal wind turbine that generates energy instead of a vertical one - for example, on the roof of a car, along with a special tunnel that would push air while driving, additionally generating downforce like a spoiler. But I guess it won't change anything. Super experiment.
What about Veritasiums windmill dragster? I actually didn't fully understand the explanation. Would love to see you giving it a shot!
"Engineering with Rosie" explained it fairly well - the wheels power the propeller (it isn't a wind turbine in this application), the whole thing begins by being blown downwind by drag (a popout "drag sail/flap" on the mast would increase this initially) - as the speed increases, so does the thrust developed by the propeller (RPM increasing linearly with speed, thrust will increase once a "critical RPM is reached), until zero apparent wind) The propeller produces thrust back against the prevailing wind leading to acceleration, even beyond the point of zero apparent wind experienced at the vehicle body. The equations balance out at "some terminal velocity" relative to the energy provided by the wind, where drag (from the now oncoming apparent wind) equals the total thrust available from the wind acting on the swept area of the propeller - with L/D ratio most likely exceeding 10 - the design was optimised for fairly low speeds, with a wide blade to get a "bigger bite " of the air.... (yes explanations can be tricky - no thermodynamics laws were broken there). The same craft (should be able) could go dead upwind too, not as fast however, there are videos of up-and back propeller land sailing on dykes in Holland.
This was my 5th grade science project/ invention. I placed second. The egghead that beat me came up with an irrigation system that is now being used today. Kid was super smart. I didn't think mine even deserved 2nd. I was more impressed with the spinning spaghetti fork.
What if a car had solar panels on the roof? Would that help the battery to last longer? (Not indefinitely) but there wouldn’t be any extra air resistance?
Yes it would last longer, but it's not magic.
The difference there, if I'm not mistaken, is that you're taking energy from the Sun's radiation, not the car. If you use the car's power to move the turbine, the car will have less energy to move and is going to be slower. With solar panels, you're using the Sun's power, and the car isn't exactly making the Sun brighter by moving, so the car siphons the Sun's energy for itself. Energy is being conserved in both cases, but in the latter case the energy is lost on the sunbeams' side alone
Solar would work, but you'd need an entire roof of solar to make a couple hundred of watts. But we're talking like 1 percent of charge (or less) by leaving it somewhere in direct sun for a few days.
It takes a lot of power to drive a car.
Look at Aptera motors for an EV concept that is covered in solar panels. The practical problem with solar on a vehicle is the limit of surface area along with non-optimal positioning making the panels not contribute much. I still like solar on an EV from an emergency standpoint though, but its important to understand what you're actually getting out of them.
I built a solar powered toy car in middle school, no battery at all. Just place it in the sun and it goes.
More complicated than it sounds. It works, but for a lot of the users the vastly increased weight, and extra cost and complexity, makes in not worthwhile.
For people who travel short distances to work, then leave the car in the sun all day, definitely a benefit. But for people who drive longer distances, or park their cars in a sheltered area, it becomes expensive and likely a reduction in energy from the weight.
Someone mentioned on another post that any benefit you get is likely outweighed by the benefit you'd have simply putting a solar panel in the roof of your house to offset the cost of the charge at home.
As a range extender for a long trip it wouldn't be worthwhile, and possibly less efficient considering the weight
Since I have a Tesla, many people asked me why I don't install a wind generator so I could drive forever. As an engineer I tried to explain to them exactly what you showed in the video. But after a while I stopped doing this because it became exhausting. Too many people don't understand physics...
Excellent work using an experiment to dispel the confusion!
how about if you put the wind turbine horizontal underneath the car?
Kinda similar thing exists for airplanes, called the ram air turbine, although it doesn't power propulsion, it's for providing power to the instruments and flight controls in an emergency.
I have always wondered why cant we use fans or other things to power itself pls make a video on that.
I love the real world applications you create.
Have you ever heard of the blackbird? It's a vehicle design that is capable of moving faster than the wind pushing it. It's actually insane that it works at all.
How about creating a vacuum chamber to offset the gravity?
Thank you for tirelessly educating people on your channel!
PS: Instead of a wind turbine, what actually works is to put solar cells on an electric car. The solar energy is not enough to power a car continuously, but enough to add a few km of range per day. This sounds compelling for people who use their car only like once a week.
But then again, it might make more sense to put much cheaper solar cells on your house roof instead of carrying them everywhere with the car as extra weight and cost.
I do think there is a market for solar panels on cars. The weight is definitely substantial, but for people who drive a relatively short distance to work, and park the car outside, it could be more than worthwhile.
But your point about just having them at home to offset the regular charging is probably just the better option
The subject is really tricky to explain well and not write off a bunch of engineers. I think you did good! Although a little bit more about drag's force relative to the entire mass of the machine would've probably cleared up some of the confusion I see in the comments. Alternatively, some people will worship their vehicles like children, so maybe you can only teach so much.
You can put turwine blade as like helicopter blade this will not push you car back
The bicycle usecase is actually a valid one. You are not using a battery but your own energy to power it. Which is fine. Same as putting a generator on the wheel axle itself.
As much as I like Windmills, what if we added a solar panel instead of a windmill? The solar panel can change while the car is moving, without causing wind resistance. Would it?
Too small surface area to make any impact.
15 years or so ago, I worked at a local computer repair shop when one day this guy roars up to the building and jumps out of his Jeep with a mess of wires and parts, and as he walked through the door, I noticed he had on a magnifying headset. Oh brother... He needed someone to solder a bunch of hi power transistors for some project he was working on. So I call out the boss from his cave since this is definitely in his wheelhouse, and after a few minutes of discussion, we find out he's working on this exact idea presented in the video and claims to have modified a Peterbilt tractor to run using a similar but hugely scaled up version. We both knew he was missing a few but fixed his problem and he went on his merry way. He offered for anyone to come to his 'shop' and check it out. The boss did and he saw a bunch of junk under tarps but nothing actually working. Ah well, one day we'll crack it. 😁😂
I met some really interesting people at that shop and the 'nutty professor' as we nicknamed him was the clear winner. Another guy claimed to have worked with electronic engineers laying out some of the first LSI IC's on the floor drawn on paper. He also claimed to have invented sideways oil drilling that was being using in the Gulf.
What if the turbine charged a battery that wasnt being used then switched when the battery is low? Trying to charge a battery thats being used drains faster then its charged... supposedly but idk.... maybe
Actually wind can power vehicles.. that's what the sails do in sail-ships.
But for it to work, you need sails, not windmills.
Except windmills are sails that rotate on an axis
This isn't about sailing, it's about getting more energy than you put in.
Oh yeah, and wind resistance; I forgot that. Thanks for another great video, James!
in last video i commented for fun never tought that would inspire you to make such video thanks for your care and understanding keep on rocking
Why don’t you attach the windmill to the roof like a helicopter and put like 3 of them on to increase aerodynamics
You can also attach a fan to a sail or a magnet attached to the front of the car.
but what if you put the wind turbine behind the front grill of the car? The front grill acts like an intake to cool the engine, AC, batteries etc. so using the same airflow could power the wind turbine.
For those who believed it would work:
Hang a currency note at the end of a stick and hold the stick out in front of you. Now chase the money. Good luck !
wind , water and gravity, and the sun, thats all you really need 4 power, great post
I had thought of this concept too, I was thinking of trying it on a pedal bike, have the fan blades covering the cross section/areas that have to pass the airflow anyway, such as the front wheel, handle bars, the biggest restriction to the wind probably being the rider so maybe a fan duct and visor arrangement to cover that?
Due to the Betz limit on the efficiency a turbine can operate at in a moving fluid, which is at most about 59.8%, you will never physically generate enough power to compete with a more aerodynamic shape which reduces overall drag. You are probably right that there would be a way to recapture some of the wasted drag force to reduce drag, but the turbine design isn't the way to do it. And again, you'd be hard pressed to find a means of competing with a simple aerodynamic profile, which has no moving parts or extra weight
@@Spencergolde I believe Robert Murray Smith was working on a turbine design that appeared to operate beyond the Betz limit, not sure if it was backed up?
@david bone I only know of Robert Murray Smith from his reputation as a UA-cam science breakthrough scammer, I would put very little faith in any claims coming from him. The Betz coefficient was calculated for the extraction of an idealized fluid moving through a cross section, but the underlying limit is just newtonian physics. If you extracted 100% of the energy from a fluid stream, it would come to a stand still, and you would then have fluid running into non-moving fluid, which would stop the stream. Another way of looking at it is that the stream backs-up, and can't supply more energy. The best engineers have spent decades perfecting today's wind turbines, which are only capturing ~70-80% of the Betz limit in ideal conditions
Quint Builds made a scaled up version of this sometime last year, it's a great video
A perpetual motion machine that moves with the wind is called a sail boat
Not entirely. The energy still comes from the naturally existing wind.
Having an air inlet in the car bonnet could significantly reduce drag. Almost acting like a water wheel but the concentrated air flow could spin and store the energy. Agree that this could supplement and not replace energy used.
You can design the propeller that is more aerodynamic to decrease resistant. Also you can design it to have a solar roof as well so you are charging while parked with no wind.
Even those bicycle lights with the little generator that rides against the tire require extra force on the peddle to propel the bike forward. If you use the movement of the vehicle to provide additional power, there is a trade off.
If you put it backwards, it makes sense, otherwise, you remember what happened in the Mythbusters when they blow their own sail in that episode, they test with the fans first before putting on the sail.
What if we add turbines to the wheels of the car and make the firction in the turbine very less
Fans may not work so well, but some cars do have regenerative braking to convert kinetic energy from braking into extra battery power.
I would opt out and put a closed wind turbine on each side and the turbine would act as a constant charger! I would have loved this when I was in middle school as a project!
I cant believe Action Lab is actually testing a "troll science" 4chan meme 😂 ❤
This one goes way beyond troll science. It's more pernicious than Flat Earthers. ;)
Just use the turning of the wheels to produce energy, (also I have thought about doing a Wind mill on a car to generate power would be such a good invention, now I know it is not so much)
Thing is, the energy losses add up as you add more complexity to the system. Here the car battery's chemical energy goes to kinetic energy, then into work done turning the turbine, to electricity, back to the battery. On the other hand, if you mounted just a fan, no wires or tape or generator, it could work like a gyropter. As the motion turns the propeller, the propeller starts to slightly decrease the drag the car experiences, as it is now actively functioning as a propeller. So you may not recapture all your energy (or even a significant amount of it), you can make it marginally more efficient with some surprisingly simple additions.
There is a different window powered car that can travel faster than the wind. It is not hard to make a model version. I wish you would have shown this in the video.
It is called 'Blackbird'. The physics behind it are amazing.
With worm gearing that is geared low enough and driven by a tiny coreless motor, you could easily crawl forward into the very wind that is generating the power.
Have you tried adding a casing around the turbine to get some compression? And maybe add a second turbine.
Some guy made a video about that. He was able to power an electric stove with the 1Kw of power he got from the turbine. He designed the turbine out of carbon fiber so it help up pretty well against high car speeds and acceleration.
You would be better off buying a generator and putting the extra gas in that instead of your car.
@@Ides385 yeah I know. He was just trying to prove the concept
Quint Builds did an awesome series of experiments on this very topic!
I think the thing a lot of people miss about wind turbines is that they're _not_ free-spinning. Generators resist spinning as they start powering something; if you've never ridden a bicycle generator, you can physically feel this resistance as the load is increased. So the wind turbine moving through the air isn't spinning as fast as it should be at that wind speed, because there's a load (the car's motor and electronics), and that means it's providing a bunch of air resistance.
This is true, but it's not that simple. Consider a helicopter in autorotation (i.e. gliding with engine out). If you put drag on the blades and bring them to a stop, you fall like a rock. But if you let them free spin, applying no torque at all on the shaft, you can glide to Earth at a nice leisurely pace.
@@Rick_Cavallaro Yeah, propellers are complicated, but just the fact that the motor resists turning under load does mean that the air resistance will be a significant factor. It's an intuitive thing that I think a lot of people who haven't worked with generators don't have a feel for; they see a propeller spinning and think it's like a pinwheel that has next to no spinning resistance that also generates power...
More to the point, when you put a helicopter into autorotation, you detach it from the engine and alternator and reduce the drag on it as much as possible, to get it spinning as fast as you can. You need that angular momentum so you can flare the propeller near the ground and use that momentum to slow down just before the landing. If you were also using it to power a load, you'd have way less momentum.
What if we add a turbine to the wheels of the car ?
A more fair comparison would be to keep the turbine on the car but disconnecting it from supplying the car. This is because the resistance from the turbine also accounts for the amps that was drawn from the battery
Car coated in a material that would behave the same as a Van Der Graff generator would be something nice. You do not add drag, just borrow electrons form the air and put them in the batteries 😅
Awesome idea. I think my car has this feature. In dry days I get electrocuted opening the door.
I made a video of doing this years ago, I used a 3d printed 18 blade shrouded propeller found free on thingivers_ with a diameter of 400mm. I paired it with a high power scooter brushed dc motor as a generator, and was able to produce 200-400 watts above 45mph, and it worked all the way to 120mph! I used the current to run a browns gas (HHO) wet cell to inject hydrogen and oxygen into the engine for increased fuel mileage and internal engine cleaning. It worked a treat until my Saturn car gave up the ghost at 320,000 miles
I thought about that some weeks ago, and noted the idea down for further research. I forgot about that until I saw this video
I feel like this could be optimized to extend range if the turbine was spun by aero under the car and through concentrated air intake channels. this combined with re-gen braking and solar panel implementation would heavily improve range, covering most commutes alone. of course the tech is new and improving, but I think their is some potential with all three. also if not with direct wind im sure someone can come up with a turbo like device that would spool up and discharge its energy through a drive. I guess the trick is to create a turbine with the most torque per rotation with the least amount of drag on its blades.
Also the weight of the turbine is increasing energy consumption
it's actually a good idea to put in in a bike to power a 💡. Although I don't know if it's less performing than the traditional friction model.
Idea Electric scooter 🛵 chraging
It is theoretically possible to increase efficiency by changing the aerodynamic properties. The big mistake here is that you significantly increased the cross section of the car. Obviously that wouldn't work. It's probably very difficult to get right but it's definitely possible to increase efficiency with something like this.
The car is already losing energy due to drag. You may be able to collect some of that energy without adding as much drag. There may be some areas of the car that are wasting energy accelerating oncoming air to nearly the velocity of the car. All of that energy is converted to heat. You may be able to put a fan in that location and only have a minimal impact on overall drag of the vehicle because it's not increasing the cross sectional area. But then it may be collecting a lot of that energy that was previously lost due to drag. It's not perpetual motion. It's just an improvement of aerodynamic properties to reduce waste.