Building a Turbine Car
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2024
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#3dprinting #physics #engineering #pneumatic #turbine
I absolutely love the compressed air series. the way the way you get to the optimal result and don't half ass it is remarkable and respectable. we all can thank you for your videos.
This! He goes all the way to get a proper result, rather than doing the bare minimum and celebrating it.
@@JellyFishMachineyes, well put. exactly what I had in mind. along with a few others he goes into great detail, explaining it perfectly. not everyone can do that and I bet he is proud
I absolutely loathe it. You cannot power anything with this. It is completely impractical. Compressed air systems are very heavy and very inefficient. He's practically cheating by using a pop bottle. Even a small RC race car would need a MUCH, MUCH heavier bottle to carry significantly more air. Air compressors are quite inefficient as are most air tools. This is why they have been almost universally swapped out in auto mechanics, for example. There are still a lot in industrial use though. There are lots of good reasons they are. But energy inefficiency isn't one of them.
@@tarstarkusz It's like you've never had a hobby in your life.
@@WillowEpp Fun is a good reason to do anything. I don't oppose having fun. Why the heck else would anyone build an RC car?
It might be fun, but it isn't practical.
Really cool turbine exploration and execution. I'm honored to have made it into a Tom Stanton video!
are you currently working on a new video? i love these and i would love to see more :)
[maybe a quick spoiler whats going to be the next one all about?]
@@multiarray2320 more coming soon! No spoilers yet sorry :)
"Cool! is that electric?"
"No it's gas powered"
*pure oxygen*
Technically correct, the best KIND of correct!
Alright pal, you're goin downtown 👮👮
@@A.k.-47- actually only about 20% oxygen, assuming it just came from a bike pump
Outside of America calling something gas powered means an actual gas state of matter not a shortening of gasoline
Torque graphs, RPMs, power output calculations, and a pneumatic drill sound? I feel like I'm watching an F1 crew talk about their car.
tbf there isnt much difference, especially if you are so dedicated to get the best result out of it.
Yeah, ONE difference is there, he gets a lower wage BUT more satisfaction wich cant be bought with money.
Yeah, I love it. I mean, the final build is like a top fuel dragster with those fat tires on the back but the whole video just made me think of F1 for some reason. When the turbine spins up, it even sort of sounds like an F1 car. So, so very cool.
Where air isn't being blown through the turbine, the turbine is acting as a fan which is wasting energy. If you block 90% or so of the turbine where there's no compressed air blowing through it, it won't waste as much energy.
It's the same as if you block a hoover, it uses less power so it spins up faster.
That and some shrouding around the nozzle to ensure the air can’t escape/be redirected at the higher speeds.
Also the outer shell rotating is creating a ton of surface drag. Need to switch to a static duct.
It also should be a one-way gear mesh that as the turbine slows it decouples from the flywheel, which means that its slowdown does not affect the power. Only energy in, and no added friction after the air pressure is too low.
Front wheels should also be tiny, and the bottle can be heatshrunk or a 2l vessel could be formed to be more aerodynamic. The bottle shape is not good and the front wheels are not helping with the rotational mass. The wheels should therefore be driven via a centrally mounted hub and with two sockets in order to reduce torque steer. To further reduce issues with the turbine, the fins should only be shaped like the water ones to redirect the air 180° and only on the rim say 1/2cm or less, so a cup or two cups per 'fin' a la water turbine blades and smaller. An additional ring made of metal could therefore be attached to the flywheel to balance it and add additional mass. But it definitely needs a central vertical position with a properly straight axle for both itself and the rear wheels to work. This wobbly jank is fine for a first concept but at high rpms there's not much room for error
Air being sticky and having friction is such an odd thing lol.
I suggest using graphite powder as a lubricant for plastic parts. It's dry but can still function pretty well.
Also, bearings, bearings, bearings. Lube bearings up with really thin oil when they aren't going to generate lots of heat, if any at all, and thicker oil for parts that generate lots of heat. May have to experiment with different types of oil to find the right ones for each part.
The dry ice around here comes in pellet form that fit right inside soda bottles. I would throw some dry ice in that bottle and a little water and run that car for a while. I did something similar with an air powered toy car back in the 80's.
Oh that’s sick, new renewable energy source? Takes the co2 out of the air and puts it right back
Just needs a pressure relief valve. I've been near 2L plastic bottles with dry ice in and when they let go, it's like a cannon going off and you can hear the bang rolling across the hills like thunder. Wouldn't want to be right next to it for sure.
You could drill out the end of a mini propane tank a 1 pounder and replace the normal valve head with a regulator that screwed on and not need to worry about it blowing up from dry ice. Soda bottle can hit 100psi+ with out exploding and 1 pound propane tank can get close to if not above 2k psi. Also water is not needed for dry ice to do it's thing it will sublimate just fine with out it
@@nanaki-seto You do not need to drill a 1 lbs propane tank. Just buy the required fitting. They are super simple designs. Pretty sure propane tanks are tested at 600 psi from the factory. Keep in mind that propane when 100F produces 175 or so psi. So they are very strong tanks. Weigh next to nothing and can hold so much air.
@@Seasal87 At best, it's an energy storage medium. Refrigerating carbon dioxide into solid dry ice isn't free.
You mentioned having problems with air leaks and friction in the vane motor. In air tools, the oil they use both reduces friction and acts as a seal between the vanes and casing. It might be worth revisiting that design, but adding some oil and seeing if that makes a difference.
Those 'vane' type motors are rather inefficient.
They DO work but only because they can rely on an almost limitless supply of compressed gas (which this scenario simply does not have)
Love you man. I remember watching your first ebike build. You're one of the main reasons I decided to switch from Psychology to Mechanical Engineering. I graduate in two quarterrs.
Congratulations ! That's quite a leap
Bravo, mate. Top stuff.
Good luck bro!
Some might say a half 🙃
These sliding blade turbine design can be found as vacuum pump for the locks in a Audi b5 a4 from the 90.They are made with compressed graphite which reduces the friction. If you can get your hands on one from a scrapyard you may have a turbine that can work pretty efficiently with the limited amount of pressured air
Compressed air has to be one of the most inefficient methods of energy storage…
That’s what makes all of your projects with it all that more impressive!
Yes, it's true. Pneumatic Cylinders are widely used in the industry. They have some (small) ambitions to replace them with electric actuators.
But electric actuators are many times more expensive in the purchase. And Pneumatic is simple and robust in operating and maintaining. That's why they stick with pneumatic.
A big part of the losses occur at the compressor in the form of excessive heat within the compressed air. As it cools down it looses energy. Some manufacturers store the excessive heat in paraffin, which heats up the air as it expands, giving some of the energy back to the working gas.
So, there is potential ...
Maybe Tom find's some clever ways to improve the overall efficiency ;-)
I mean I just like the concept of pneumatic air compressors and such.
So funny seeing tiny little Hoosier drag slicks.
This should be made an official competition. Only fixed bottle volume and pressure. Who make a faster dragster wins.
For pressing bearings: ALWAYS apply the force to the parts that is friction fitted. So if you pressing it on a axle apply the pressing pressure to the inner race and as you might guess if you're pressing the bearing into a bearing holder, apply the pressing pressure to the outer race.
Unless you have a bearing designed (trust bearing, conical bearing) for it, they can't take much sideways forces. And it's easy enough to turn/3d print a tool for that.
I've done similar experiments w an air nozzle blowing against blades. I discovered that changing the angle of the nozzle to the blades based on the wheel/blades RPM has benefits. One angle for high torque/ low rpm, then changing the angle as it spins to more of a tangent for higher rpm. Also, I've found that the plastic soda bottles can hold up to 150psi, then regulate down to the usable psi.
That sounds easier than adding a gearbox
The Hoosier tires was a nice touch.
thank you for being seemingly the only person on youtube who actually discloses their onshape sponsorship.
Omg no idea what it is that I love about pneumatic motors, but it's clearly something. I honestly don't care about the part when you use a motor to build something, but I can watch you spinning them up, plotting and optimizing endlessly. I l'd love to see more turbine designes and especially multi-staged ones.
I'd love to see a small dragster competition where the only energy storage for the movement is a pressurised plastic bottle.
Bladed turbines, bladeless turbines, piston motors. Driven by wheels, propellers and jet nozzles and hovercraft skirts.
@@cloudpandarism2627 imagine strapping like 4 bottles onto the car, spinning up a flywheel then the car drops all the bottles to lose excess weight and just smokes it
@@yutakawasaki7207 even better.
yes. the air bottle being the only constant
"The Great Egg Race"
Water rockets would take a lot of beating.
Tom. I'm always happy to see when you upload a new video. Your engineering skills are so inspiring. Every video you upload is such a treat. I've been watching your videos for a long time now, and the only thing I could ever ask of you, is to make more of them. You inspire me to learn new things and do stuff. Thank you very much.
9:46 I laughed like a giddy child, you have to admit it sounds gorgeous. good work Tom!
Perhaps two nozzles and turbines in parallel. One with large surface area and one with small. The large generates higher thrust but low speed for the initial phase of acceleration. At a certain speed they switch so you get higher top speed with lower consumption.
That empty bottle powering a high speed motor sets off my "fake free energy" reflexes, even when I know better. Awesome work!
it's not empty, it's full of air! lol
@@kenanjones3481Clever response indeed
was going through the compressed air engine and now I think I have an idea for improving the efficiency of the engine even further
If you use a reed switch and a magnet in the piston and to release pressure in the piston at just the right time the engine
Can run at even lower pressures than before and for much longer which can increase the efficiency several folds.
By the way I am a student and I love your projects. Thank you for inspiring me.
Great video, and very neat concept. This reminds me of the "Turbonique" drag-axles that were a thing in the american drag-racing scene back in the 60s. They were essencially a turbine wheel, driven by a hypergolic fuel, integrated into the rear axle of the car, instead of having a traditional powertrain to drive the rear wheels. Maybe something similar is possible on an RC scale, similar to pyrotechnic starters on early jet engines with a solid rocket motor.
You don't want to exhaust your turbine near the center. You want the opposite, intake near center and exhaust on the outside edge. Then centrifugal force will help speed the air out, allowing you to maximize the power output.
No idea if this is better than the other designs, I just know you did that 4 watt turbine backwards, making it work against centrifugal force as it spins up. It may be worth a try.
That is less efficient. Look at how the turbines on turbochargers (and centrifugal jet engines) are designed. The air must be drawn into the middle only when its density (and hence pressure) is diminished to provide proper back pressure. If we were trying to draw air through the turbine (like on the input side of a turbo) your assertion would be correct. Remember that we are trying to get the air to do as much work as possible on the turbine, so trapping it with centrifugal force ensures a bigger pressure difference between input and output. The centrifugal force is effectively acting like the seal stopping the input air from rushing straight out the exit.
one suggestion is to have a a smaller turbine and have 3-4 smaller nozzles, cus right now only one spot on the turbine is producing power, you could half the diameter by doubling the nozzles, won't be a 1-1 unless it's more efficient which it might be
Not saying it won't work but.. friction increases.
@@squidcaps4308 the friction moving the turbine would increases too
If the nozzles were staged it could dramatically increase efficiency. Have three nozzles. Use one very small nozzle as the low throttle. Don't open the second until the first is fully opened, then start opening the second, and so on. Partially opened valves are very inefficient. Having one valve fully opened with two others shut is a much better way to do 1/3 throttle vs 1 valve 1/3 open.
An axial turbine with multiple nozzles and stages would be the way to go; which looks like it's on the drawing board.
See also my comment about incorporating the throttling valve into the nozzle design.
My aerospace brain was screaming "pelton wheel" throughout this entire video, essentially the axial turbines you are designing would require a much larger (and more even) air stream to work efficiently whereas a pelton wheel is much better suited for a nozzle setup like the one you are using. Really cool to see you discovering and trying things!
Very cool Tom! I like how you’re doing both turbines and piston engines!
The sounds it makes while powering up and then coasting is pure blissful music to my ears
TESLA TURBINE!
Simple to make, but usually inefficient short of very viscous fluids.
@@ericlotze7724 I know, its just fun to talk about Tesla and his zany inventions
@@monstercameronyeah maybe tom should make a gobal wireless power station
@@ericlotze7724 skill issue
That would be so cool
Looks like a nice impulse turbine. One way to get more power is to use a supersonic nozzle (converging diverging). You can also add more nozzles. Love your videos, so cool!
Finally another Tom Stanton video
yea
Awesome dyno! Love how simplistic yet functional you managed to make it!🎉
Compressed air for the win! best series on youtube
That motor you mention at about 4:20, it's a nice one, but needs oil added to overcome the shortcomings you also mention as well as needing a constantly generated supply of air to keep working without dropping off in performance.
I think you explained well how different kinds of air turbines are handy. Kudos.
I think it would be worth it to make a 2 stages turbine ! You could extract much more energy, but keep in mind thattp be optimal rhe second stage should probably have a different pitch/volume to make use of the lower pressure aif coming in
Waiting patiently as Tom gets ever closer to building a rocket engine turbopump :)
In all seriousness, always stunned by your clever mechanical design. Super inspiring.
Tesla turbine?
come to that i think of it, maybe possible but hard to do without precise machinery
It wouldn’t be as efficient at lower rpm’s
But maybe by using a clutch mechanism higher speed could easily be achieved
Exactly my thought
Tesla turbine is a failure...ive tried 3 different ones they all suck....i was very disapointed so....this turbine i would say performs good..but not best
This video gets a smile on my face, like most of your videos 😁. I am an engineer and I guess I should understand all this easily, but my mind isn’t nearly as practical as yours. So nice to see all your ideas come to life
Tom, honestly, your projects are awesome
Fantastic Engineering Tom! (love the Inertial dynamometer).
My old rocket club (Paisley Rocketeers) took to these PET pop-bottles with gusto, as they made a fine water rocket (which we called 'Aquajets').
Some bottles would burst at 150 psi, but some went bang at only 70 psi. We decided that the safest course of action was to remotely pressurise and launch 'em: above 60 psi, don't be nearby!
Well I didn't expect to see my local Showcase Cinema in the intro, that's for sure
I think you should try a hot wire resistor in the air stream as it is going into the air motor. You're carrying the battery anyway, so you might as well use it to put some heat into it.
Can you post the files for your turbine designs?
0:22 Helicopter: “dies” Propeller: “where we goin?”
You should get some old worn out vacuum gyroscopic aircraft instruments. The gyros are spun up using very similar turbines. Attitude indicators, DGs, and Turn Coordinators/Turn and Bank should have gyros in them - just make sure they’re “vacuum driven.”
Also you should probably be using jewel bearings for the turbines.
Would a Nicolas tesla turbine work better?
No
The vane turbine would need small springs to keep the chambers sealed at low rpms and stopping air forcing past the vanes. More friction but more efficiency. I've seen grout mixer pumps also use rods to keep opposing vanes in place sliding back and forth as they run around the circumference
Should of made a tesla turbine
Now for the addition of a c02 canister to act as NOS but either way this is an awesome series. Here's me still drawing things cause i suck at cad lol
Tesla Turbine?
This one is not a Tesla turbine, but that would be cool to compare the output of that turbine and a Tesla turbine of the same diameter.
This guy's content is just filled with surprises after surprises of satisfying overengineering.
Just when you don't expect it, it shows up!
You better use one turbine with 3 different sections with different radiuses.🎉 Imagine bicycle gears on the back wheel, where gear is switched to smaller disc, so you can add small mechanism to the air pipe pointed on the gear, to auto swith it on the smaller disc after reaching max speed using the bigger one. You can print such turbine as one part with 3 sections to switch on... or more...
The little Hoosier tires cracked me up.
👍Your detailed coverage of the technology and mechanics behind these incredible machines really brings the thrill to life. Amazing video for anyone fascinated by extreme speed and engineering!
Fantastic video- great engineering really well explained. Maybe you could try a turbine disc without a shroud- just open blades with a jet in the plane of the disc tangent to the blades and not angled. Like a pelton wheel.
To think I searched stanton two days ago looking for new content and then boom, it was up yesterday. National treasure this man.
Maybe add a turbine like this, to the shaft of the air engine exhaust to your air plane engine as a compounding turbo. Should make the engine more affixation. You have a great channel!
Dude the sound of the turbine spooling up terrifies me
A carbon fiber air bottle off a PCP air rifle can run much higher pressure in a smaller space.
It would be heavier but run through a regulator it could give you way more useable air.
I recall seeing some design competition that was hosted by Ford Motor Company. The winning team designed a 3 wheeled compressed air car that Ford was going to call the Model T squared. It was supposed to be a cheap commuter car but have not seen anything further on it. I thought that would be a great short run commuter car as it used its own on board compressor that would recharge the tank up to 300 bar over night and had a range of 300 miles (if memory serves)
stop for a second and appreciate how like 10 years ago, getting a part made like those turbines with the internal c channels and what not, would have been next to impossible for the average person. but because of 3D printing we can just... make stuff and try ideas pretty consistantly.
8:00 I think the reason the others performed better, is because the "curve" of the regular turbine's paths actually guide the air to exit in the opposite direction (so the force the air exits with, is additionally imparted to the turbine as a reactive force by Newtons laws. In addition to the energy you would get from completely stalling the air by absorbing 100% of the kinetic energy. So in total the theoretical maximum efficiency instead becomes 200% - and more if you can speed the air up! Minus of course any energy that was in the same axis as the spin-axis, since that direction was not touched), while the bad turbine only guides it to exit in a perpendicular direction (it absorbs all kinetic force in the axis perpendicular to spin-axis, but no more).
It is much like how a gravity-powered generator at 100% efficiency has the weight not fall at all, while at 200% the weight start flying up into space! ;)
you could totally make a competition out of this
make an air powered dragster that'll go the furthest on a 2 liter bottle of air. The engineering challenges that come out of this would be interesting enough on their own
Really cool how at 6:06 you can see when the pressure drops on the bottle the bottle gets foggy because the water is vaporizing
Have a look at plastic blow moulding. You can 3d print your own moulds and thus make your own structural air bottles.
On a gasturbine you have a static ring with blades that get the air to „spinn“ and push the blades on the moving wheel. The blades on the moving wheel „straighten“ the airflow. If you have a multistage turbine the next static ring will to the same until there is no pressuredifference left. So maybe instead of blowing at the moving ring with a nozzle using a distibuting chamber and a static ring might help.
Print the nozzle with a narrow slot and as wide as the turbine blades. Also the end of the nozzle should be angled to be parallel to the face of the turbine, and sit as close as possible to minimize air blowing out the sides VS going though the blades.
you should add an "air chest" where you have a pressure tight chamber that goes to multiple nozzles like steam chest on steam turbines might help ensure all of the pressure is getting used by the blades and not lost before the energy of the air is wasted.
Id love to see a hydrodam turbine idea with air and see how they compare since the air has to pass along the blades to the side and with the other almost make a 180°turn
Amazing video al always ❤
Works by design looks like a combination of you and the backyard scientist (with all respect)
The problem is not only the input air expanding, its also the already existing air putting drag on the turbines.. by being chaotic. What you want, is an enclosure for the turbine, that allows a vortex to form that goes into the same direction and keeps the air that follows up directional aligned with the running turbine. That way, you also decrease the slowing down low-pressure pockets and ideally, the small sub vortexes shedding from the tip of the blade..
タービンブレードについての考察部分も面白いですが、ボトル容器への充填ユニットの仕組みもシンプルかつコンパクトで良いですね。
飛行機に続くとても大胆な挑戦でした。
I'm more impressed at the fact a super cheap mass produced plastic bottle can hold 80 psi of pressure reliably.
"Guess the car by the sound" *plays the sounds at the **9:47** test*
"Yo sick Hellcat supercharger whine, But it's easy... Also why is it so weird?"
"ITS A PRESSURE POWERED TURBINE"
Another great episode!
How about a multistage system with an aluminium pipe as turbine drive shaft, and an aluminium or possibly copper pipe as housing, that is fed in the middle, to balance the axial force, with enough stages the turbine should be able to produce enough torque to drive the wheels without gearing, and that way the turbine can also act as the rear wheel axle. Making it from aluminium tubes should allow the compressed air to pick up some heat between stages which would increase efficiency, besides aluminium pipes being relatively cheap and easy to work with, while also strong and light weight.
That would probably not make the same cool high pitched whine, but I think that's a relatively easy way to get reasonably high efficiency, and also minimize losses.
If you want to make it even more complicated you could 3D print something based on the Ljungström turbine built into the wheel hubs, to squeeze a bit more energy out of the compressed air before it's released.
About pneumatic tools, I don't think they're typically supposed to be efficient, if they were close to as efficient as they could be, the air would become so cold that is could cause a number of issues without having multiple stages with sufficient reheating between them.
Nice work. Air engines/turbines are very capable. There was a man that developed air engines for vehicles decades ago and it worked quite well. There are some videos on that. His design used multiple carbon fiber air tanks designed to split open in case of failure since they were thousands of PSI and could be extremely dangerous. He designed a van that would get 300km per air fill.
I like to engineering involved in this, but also just how good it looks with just the soda bottle as a body- so reminiscent of a 1920's race car.
Hey Tom, very cool. I took my kids to their first drag strip yesterday ironically and they went wild when the first Alcohol cars both ran on the 1/4 mile at 287mph @ 5.2 seconds. They literally shake your bones.
Soon we will all drive cars powered by compressed air. And we will thank Tom for laying the groundwork.
I seem to recall a compressed air powered car for sale in India a decade or so ago. Can’t remember the details.
It's amazing to use compressed air to rotate a complete model turbine. Thank you
Cool!!!! Use a higher gear ratio, it will allow the turbine to spool up easier and multiply torque to the wheels
Practical engineer and power plant operator here.
You're looking into gas turbines, but these are combustion engines. Better look at steam turbines, these are expansion engines. Your design is a one-stage axial turbine without the outer housing and stators. For your application, I think the niche of radial turbines might be a thing. They consist of two discs with combing blades, one is the rotor, the other is the stator. Pressure is applied in the middle and travels outside. Each set of stator blades gives the air direction, each set of rotor blades converts pressure into speed. Since the blade sets are concentric and combing, you have very little worries about leaks. The air would just go into the next stage. For your application, I would start with a setup of three stages each composed of stator and rotor blades. Make sure you have two or three more rotor blades than stator blades, so you have no pulsation on your turbine. Cheers! ❤
You are currently using an axial flow compressor style, which works great for acceleration of large amounts off air, hence why jet turbines use them, instead I would recommend looking into centrifugal flow compressors these are what are used in anything from large generators to helicopters and turbo prop aircraft, as they are much better for high torque applications. Love the project and can’t wait to see where you will go with it!
I'm an oldish guy of close on forty-seven years of age but I still find you youngsters' experimentation fascinating and entertaining.
How about trying a pelton wheel-type configuration? I have not heard of it being used in gaseous application, only liquid but as it turns the flow direction by ca. 180° it might provide some interesting results.
Enjoy this for my sake too.
In an alternative universe this is how all cars are powered.
@5:09 Seeing the pneumatic drill and hearing because it sounds awesome waiting to hear the tool, then commercial break😅
Well done Tom. Top work. I tried this for power generation with relative success but I'm interested in the impeller type turbines. Opposite to the one you made that didn't work, where the centrifugal force aids in the exhaust gas. Cheers J
Note that type of air powered drill has a reduction gear - to get a fair comparison you should break it down to drive direct from the vane motor
I've made a similar turbine for a lego pulling car! Sounds really similar too!
Man is single-handedly showing the world we should have not strayed from steam engines.
2:04 measuring rpm with such a sensor is no problem, as long as you measure the time between the ticks, and not the ticks in a fixed time period. This gives very accurate results, and lets you measure extremely high rpm, more than you could ever need.
this dude's parents definetly said no when he was a kid and wanted that compressed air rc plane
Your 3D printing of parts is so neat. Looking forward to seeing where this project goes.
Just remember, if you want to beat world record you have to dtart from second gear. That is the storry bro!
My man is doing science fair projects on the regular
PLEASE GIVE IS A PRE WAR SINGLE SEAT RACER BODY! IT WOULD look so good! And it's alright a perfect share for it!
I remember years ago "they" were working on a air powered vehicles and they used a carbon fiber air tanks that were capable of 9k psi. It's been a long time so I might be a little off there but I'm old.. Anyway.. Nice work! :)
note that the masses of the turbine runner and the wheels are in 'gearwise' rotation. as a result, rotary momentum in the turbine runner damps positive affects of rotary momentum in the wheels.