You are so right.. I sometimes look at the FEMA bike recall list.. It details every motorbike manufacturer selling in Europe, recall notices.. Obviously some are major some more minor.. What amazes me is the amount of "prestige" bike manufacturers like BMW, Ducati etc are frequent entrants.. It makes you wonder..
Yep everything changes and it can happen fast. Who'd have thought our grandparents would literally fight for the rights of us and others, leading to numerous treaties and conventions. Then, 2 generations later, many are prepared to throw it all away because they are too lazy to educate themselves. The irony never escapes me.
Within the saga of the coming of Japanese cars to the US, Datsun's Mr. K recruited a fair number of former Studebaker dealers. Many of whom were asked in media about their impressions of Japanese machinery. The typical quote was they had great respect for Japanese devices having spent a bit of their twenties staring into the wrong end of it.
My Dad was in the RAF Regiment during WW2. His love of bikes was passed to me - it's in the blood. We hired a TV from Wigfalls and I remember our first colour TV was a Philips dual standard set. It was on the cusp of the changeover in 1968 and you could either watch 405 line VHF black & white or 625 line uhf colour. We had the huge "H" shaped aerial for the former and the more familiar (and compact by comparison) Yagi for the latter. The first video recorders cost the equivalent of about £3500 in today's money so many people rented these too. How many of us still say we've got a programme "recorded" to watch later? 😂
USA here - similar story, Dad was a Marine in the S. Pacific in 1944. Skip forward to the 70s, he drove a VW & Mazda, shot a Minolta & listened to a Yamaha. But I've always wondered how hard that must've been....
That was a fantastic trip down memory lane. We used to rent our tv (a Phillips I think) from Radio Rentals and Bang & Olafsons was something way out of our spending range..! But I still have my dad’s Kodak Folding Brownie Six-20. Cheers👍
My old man was in the eighth army fighting the German's. 25 years later both his sons were working for German companies and he used to say he would never have given that credence 25 years earlier. I remember saying to him, come on dad just because they bombed our chippy isn't it about time you learned to live and let live. He never did.
My late father in law served in the Pacific in WWII and was no fan of the Japanese. It took him forty years after the war’s end before he bought a Japanese car. A Nissan Maxima. He thought it was one of the best cars he’d ever owned.
Motorcycling covers a long time scale. I was taught to ride in the 60s by my grandfather who brought me up. He was taught by a DR in 1917, And I taught my son who now lives in Bangkok and rides a Chinese 150.
My Father-in-Law served in India with British Army before the War, and he ended up in Burma....so, understandably, he had a similar attitude to your Pa....My Mother-in-Law was a Land Army Girl, so worked with German POW's....and she wasn't too fond of them....we got prejudice from all angles....lol
I try not to dwell on the past, but look at today and the future. Governments are not the working people. I grew up poor in the States. Always had food on the table and none of us treated others better or worse. I love the name Norman as was my uncle's name. Just bought a Classic 350 and a GT 650. Named them "Beauty and the Beast". Never had kids so all my true loves have 2 wheels. 👍👍5🏍🙋♂️
Absolutely loved this one, my father wasn't quite old enough to have been in the war but he did his National Service out in Asia and India, the description of your dad mirrored my dad's hobbies and interests exactly except for the addition of Tropical fish on my dads part. The loft was his dark room where he mixed up his potions and housed his enlarger, downstairs was his stereo equipment with his Linn sondek complete with an SME arm and Sure pick up, along side his Trio quadrophonic tuner amp and Wharfdale speakers; plus his huge 5 head reel to reel. He was a motor mechanic and there was always a friend or neighbours car on the drive being serviced or repaired by him to fund his hobbies, a trait that rubbed off on me in later years to fund my biking. Not a lot of money but times still felt better back then; or maybe it was because I was young and still without a care in the World. I've just bought a Voge 300 Rally from Appy's partly based on your review ( I did drop your name) to run along side my BMW GS which is really a bit too heavy for me at 65 to be blasting around the Dales trails on. Keep 'em coming, I do enjoy your musings👍
A lot of the leather goods in the Harley Davidson dealership are made in Vietnam.Ironic Viet Nam veterans wearing leather jacket 🧥 or boots made in Vietnam. USA is Viet Nam' s biggest trading partner.l would only buy a Stormbreaker because as a top of the line motorcycle it won't be low quality like a lot of the smaller bikes suffer from.They also makes a copy of the 1200 liquid cooling Triumph. I love all my British vintage motorcycles
Back in the very early '80's and working as Buyer for a large multi-national agricultural machine manufacturer, an Indian company offered us a gearbox casting for one of our top-selling machines. The off-tool sample they provided looked fine, was to drawing but it was porous and 'sweated' oil through the casing. The supplier was a well-regarded Indian aircraft manufacturer; needless to say, we did not proceed with them. However, in the 45 years since then, their quality has improved exponentially. So will that of Chinese bikes.
Working at a college motor-vehicle department a student had a Chinese 125 and less than a year he donated it to the college frustrated by its failures in every way. The college lecture decided to take the Chinese bike less than a year old and a 15-year-old Yamaha BR125 apart and examining them for failures and metallurgy. The Yamaha was rusty and looked a shed however the Chinese bike was Vastly inferior, the metals all inferior and soft. This was about 10 years ago and I would never buy a Chinese bike through the experience, although I have to respect the tests on UA-cam the later bikes. That experience is sewn in my head. The Yamaha was engineered, the Chinese bike never fit for purpose. We were able to stretch the chain with a vice and grips. The Yamaha had done 20k, the other less than a thousand.
I, as many on here, sat listening to this video reminiscing about growing up in the 70s with parents/grandparents who had negative views of both German and Japanese commodities. And during my life have seen how both have come to be two of the richest countries in the world. With that aside, in recent years, as well as enjoying my biking (RE Super Meteor 650 Celestial in Blue), I have come to collect watches, and it was interesting to see your Chinese camera made by Seagull. This China backed company today is a massive producer of watches, with (wait for it) a legal copy of an earlier Swiss automatic movement. This movement is seen in e.g. the Seagull 1963 pilots watch, which is actually respected by horological gurus! As with the growth of the German and Japanese economies, I agree the Chinese are now overtaking these, if not by sheer per head capita, then by value for money. Thanks for these videos. They keep me well entertained.
Probably shouldn’t judge manufacturing from any country to harshly because they are just citizens trying to put food on the table. The issue is the government’s of those countries who’s values interest and concerns are not that of the people’s.
I remember when Japanese bikes first came on the scene. They were mainly small powered commuter machines but soon they started making bigger more powerful bikes and people realised that they were cheaper and more reliable than their European counterparts. Sem with the Asian car industry, they gave very long warranties on the first ones that were imported in to Europe and people realised that you would definitely get much more bang for your buck. Now look how many chinese MGs there are on our roads, where people looked on them with suspicion when they first came our they are now selling in droves and of course going up in price. I am definitely going to try out one of the CF Moto 450Mt's when they are available over here. They are cheaper than most of the other small ADV bikes and with their tie in to KTM and the rave reviews from the European press will probably be a sound bike. I bet if they take off the prices will soon go up?
All the best i allmost fell of my chair when i saw that Tandberg tv we hade that as well because my mom woorked at Tandberg when that first coolor tv came out we get to test it before it came out to stores brings back memorys suddenly i was populer a mong freids wanting to see cartoons in collor, soory English isent my language ride safe on your Classic i em glad i got mine to put a smile on every time bimble time 😊
Good morning Dave brilliant video with so many memory jerks for me, 1980s we rented a Tandberg t.v. From Vallances in Ilkley for five years, so pleased with it I offered to buy it but they wanted 90% of the new price. Bought a Sony to replace it, broke after two years. Had Zenit cameras for astro photography.. simple and fantastic images. My mate had a Lada Niva 4x4 for 20 years and never missed a beat and cost peanuts to run. Finally, and perhaps more importantly, your video picture and sound quality far exceeds most of the main stream UA-camrs, a real pleasure on the senses. I will be watching this space, the suspense is killing me. Andy.
What a brilliant video. I seem to remember me mam and dad having a telly that you had to put a 2 Bob bit into a box on the back for it to work. And being sent to the local outdoor for a bottle of bullseye brown ale for me mam.
Hi Dave, love to hear chat re hi fi. I am a hi fi man. Linn/Naim. I allways said the vinyl LP, was the most enjoyable listening experience. 😊 Nice ride out too😊
Absolutely the same view from Switzerland! Your examples are funny, as I had some of the same experiences. 1 example : in 1980 I was in London for the first time with a friend and our 125 ccs (Yam DTMX and Kawa KE) . Long 3 days trip, driving left in that huge town (mine was 20'000 🙃) but with the help of so great people including the police it was ok.. We slept in East Acton in a "tent city" for 1 pound per day and were the happiest boys on Earth. We had to buy a camera, as ours didn't work... For the equivalent of 50 Swiss francs, we could buy either a plastic Kodak Instamatic or... a beautiful Lubitel made in USSR! We bought the Lubitel... But could never see any picture we did, as we had to take a taxi to go to a hospital (nothing serious) but with the stress we forgot the Lubitel in it... Thank you for the reflexion and I hope our shared experiences are helpful to everybody.
Im having the same experience with my 2023 bsa goldstar i have ridden since 1970 90cv to 1400cc british and japanese this is a great well made in India motorcycle
Well my old man used to fix old TV and electric stuff, I use to have a darkroom back in the day, they were still using those type of camera's in the early 2000's lol.
How Bizarre !!!! I myself worked for Vallances, in Leeds opposite the Corn Exchange actually in "The Audiolab" - wonder if we ever came across each other ? This connection business gets very strange now - I also worked for Tandberg on Elland Road and visited the factories in Oslo 2 or 3 times a year. Oh the stories from that part of my life ...
Remember the lubitel 166b medium format Russian camera. About a tenth of the price of a medium format camera of the time, no light meter but was a great introduction for me to the wonderful world of black and white medium format. Went onto a Bronica 6.45 (very posh and expensive) but the little Lubitel was always a joy. Happy days loading 120 roll film, developing it then printing your own photo s. I darkened a small 2nd bathroom we had in the house and printed the photo s on an enlarger which was positioned on the toilet seat. Those were the days ❤
To be fair the Lubitel was a poor camera, I owned two of them. Flimsy plastic with a 3-element taking lens which would jump out of sync with the focusing lens. However they cost 12 quid, so no complaints! There's no motorcycle comparison because no bikes are that bad, or that cheap. Bikes like MZ were unfairly maligned, and in some ways were better than their western equivalents. My issue with Chinese bikes is an over-reliance on any single overseas country for manufacturing, but that's what happens when you sacrifice a mixed economy for a service economy.
Totally agree Why I this world would anyone pay such exorbitant prices for a Motorcycle that cost more than many Cars Getting close to 40 thousand US dollars- Even if I could afford one based on principle I would not buy and the market is reflective and those so called premium bikes are slowing in sales I have been chasing the market for a while and my solution was A Royal Enfield Interceptor which I bought used 2022 with only 2000 miles for 4000 US DOLLARS and this bike had about 1000 US of additional items already on it Enjoyed your talk and respect your opinion Regards from Florida
Growing up in the Far East, a number of family friends were ex POWs having been captured after the fall of Malaya and Singapore. How they survived, I'll never know. They were some of the nicest, most accommodating people I've ever had the pleasure to meet. Anyhow, most expats, whether they had fought in the Far East or not, would have nothing to do with Japanese items. But, from the early 1970s that started to change especially with electronics. I'm don't know why, but some Japanese items, cameras and sound systems in the most part, became more acceptable to the expat community.
l once owned a Zenith 80 medium format.. copy of the Hasselblad . It was supplied with two magazines, lens of course and a couple of other items l cant remember now all nicely packaged in a carrying case. The Zorki you referred to was a copy of the Leica rangefinder. Both these cameras were a lot cheaper than the originals. However, they did introduce me into another world of photography ...later, when finances allowed l owned a Bronica medium format and Leica...The Leica in its rangefinder format was a work of art ..Its price reflected that....still does.
I have had two Benelli Trk502 first one absolutely spot on no problems whatsoever an equal to any Honda Cb500 I have seen or road . However first one I bought brand new , second was an ex demo as no stock around . Second phase 2 model hadn,t really been looked after and after only 700 miles had peeling paint , rust streaks out of every weld and to be perfectly honest was very poor . The last one I had was back in 2021 . Will I have another absolutely YES . Since 2021 I have been running a R1200GS guess what !!! peeling paint and rust all over it so it’s not only Chinese bikes that suffer ,BMW is now gone . If you don’t,t treat them right in there early years they will become tatty irrespective of where it’s built . So I have been looking at the new Benelli,s and CF Moto the quality has leaped again since I had one in 2021 ,so you can see where my money will be going . Benelli trk702 is mypreferred choice however we will see as want to have a look at the new 450 Mt before making my mind up . The quality is there imo but there is still prejudice like there was in the 70 ,s . Well done Dave for championing the cause and dispelling the myths of far east manufactured bikes .
You put that into perspective so well mate, thank you, and I’m inclined to agree on 99%… just not sure on residual values.. really interesting video though..
I started my photography hobby with a Zenith EM SLR for a few years before moving onto a Pentax ME Super. My father also fought the Japanese in Burma and wasn’t exactly keen on them. Our first colour tv as a kid was a Grundeg which we had for about 15 years, it had a sonic remote control which meant if you put some coins in your hands and jiggled them or used the Hoover then the channel would change or the colour would go to full, lol
There is an argument that the best route for democracy is via trade and as a wealthier middle class emerges then they naturally want more freedoms and eventually living standards improve for everyone. Now I'm not smart enough to know how much that is true but I am smart enough to know that me not buying a Chinese thing is not going to change anything. Everyone has to do what they feel is right but the simple fact is that if they produce a good enough product at a competitive price then it will sell. Remember the joke "what do you call a convertible Skoda?........A skip" nobody jokes about Skoda anymore do they? Sure there are some manufacturers who will fall by the wayside like Lada and Yugo did but those who learn and develop will undoubtably find a market.
I had a couple of Praktika SLR cameras too when I first started out. I also had a Lubitel 166 TLR. I believe the Seagull TLR was a copy of the Rollie 🤔
@@thebingleywheeler MTL3 me. Those Pentakon lenses were pretty good at the time too. I had a 50mm, 28mm and 135mm. I think I've still got one somewhere. M42 screw fitting makes them very easy to adapt to a modern digital camera too 👍
Good morning Dave , A very interesting video today & yes i agree with you 100% , price wise it makes perfect sense , lets face it money is tight enough to start with , i'd eat humble pie to get a new bike rather than a second hand one , regardless of the country's origin , take care & ride safe
Chinese and Indian Bikes are taking over the market. I feel for to long the established brands have been taking advantage of bikers in fact ripping us bikers off. As you say there is a social issue as well i would suggest that established brands source many parts from China and India. My Mum would not have anything Japanese for many years LOL due to the war
If the British motorcycles industry were not run into the ground by their management the Japanese would have had more competition than just the Italian motorcycle industry. After the British motorcycles industry committed suicide the Japanese had the motorcycle market to themselves. I had my British record ⏺️ player 8- Track tape player in one. Japanese copying everything.
Well this is the thing about engineering, it can be separated from politics. The Japanese imperial ambitions had little to do with their engineering capabilities ( other than the war effort). So the real character of the people shows in their quite remarkable engineering, just as the British bikes were of their day. The Indian bikes are now great , time and improved designs move them forward. I would like to think that Chinese bikes might be the same, but the influence of the CCP is all encompassing and design seems to be transactional , a buying and making deal with someone else’s name. A political push by the party to sell and influence others. This is not the same sentiment as the Japanese post war, their intent was to rebuild the country and each of the companies heads were enthusiasts and focused on excellence. I’m sure that some Chinese companies have similar intent but the party line rules all. I had a SWM Silver vase , a quite lovely to ride 441 single scrambler, it was a great design but the component parts were very very cheaply made. Despite its Italian company roots, it rusted within months (/always garaged) the engine ( a Honda copy ) was a real gem and the italian frame and handling were very good. So, I liked it but I won’t be buying another, there was just a sense of fraud about it, an insincerity or lack of passion. Its Italian heritage was simply a ploy to sell engines to an old firm who wanted to sell bikes. The love of bikes is a lot more than just performance and marketing, there are intangibles such as character and heritage and authenticity. The Chinese bikes to don’t have thus, some are great to ride but to me they are just products at this point. There is also the politics, yes your dad was able to put aside his prejudice, the so should we , but WW2 ended and the world moved on, the current regime in China is still there and to me that’s worth considering.
Another son of an RAF engineer from WW2 here. My objection to the growing Chinese presence in the market is their national business model. Their government subsidise the manufacturing industries to the effect they can undercut other suppliers and gradually put them out of business, whilst completely ignoring copyright and intellectual property of the stuff they are mimicking. As soon as the opposition are gone, prices will rise and we'll have no choice. It's not a stategy I hold with and for me, amounts to a quiet WW3. All of this whilst treating their own people in an appalling manner. It's all a race to the bottom, rather like a certain Brazilian sounding marketplace where folks buy something because it's 10p cheaper and it all heads towards very low quality products being the only ones available. Guess I'm just a grumpy old dinosaur but it leaves a bad taste...
I get your what your saying Dave, It is very difficult not to purchase anything made in China nowadays, cheaper labour and cheaper products. I use to chat with old boy who was a Japanese prisoner of war he hated them. Now Japan has become democratic with Germany its different. But China is a dictatorship who rule there people with an iron bar, No western Internet, there human rights are terrible. I did hear China are offloading some of there production to North Korean factors to save on costs. Its not a nice country, They put high imports duties on Western products but expect there imports to be cheaper. There try to influence our universities with funding and donating money to political parties. There are funding the Russians to fight the Ukrainians. There say one thing but do another!! Not to be trusted. Much recently a cyber attack on our government military website linked to China. Also with Chinese bikes what has to be considered is resale value and after sale service ?
I’m not sure all of what we’re told about what they’re up to is true….our media tend to be state puppets these days. Saudi is every bit as bad but we’re happy to buy their oil aren’t we?
@@thebingleywheeler Yes true about saudi, but most people don't have no option. Electric vehicles are to expensive. I use a van for work have you seen the price for electric vans!! I remember going to America a few years ago and trying to buy a baseball cap not made in China.😆 Just saying.
@@thebingleywheeler I have tried hard to make this reply conversational rather than confrontational. That said, I would respectfully take issue with your use of the word "happy", and I don't think the Saudi ruling classes are "as bad" as those in China. (It's my view that the Chinese state engages in slavery and organ harvesting of ethnic religious minorities on an industrial scale, and the evidence I have seen is from independent outlets). I believe the situation with the mainstream media is more complex than just being state puppets. I perceive a curious balance between their traditional goal (making money) and the dangerous naïveté and ignorance of their graduate appointees of the last few decades. A growing number of outlets are laying staff off or even going to the wall. Your eloquence far out-strips that of so many "professional" journalists. It is unfortunate that most western corporations have kow-towed to the Chinese state in order to sell stuff to their huge populace, and also to get cheap (and probably free in many cases) labour for goods and components of goods that are then imported back here, to the extent that it's impossible to prevent one's hard-earned cash, at least in part, finding its way there. My shameful purchase of Insta360 cameras is testament to that, and goes some way to validating the point of your video. Each of us has a threshold, of course, and although I appreciate that my life choices have afforded me a certain flexibility, all I can say is I try in my own fallible way to vote with my wallet.
Good video , I did laugh a few times , we have met at the 59 , RIP to your dad , I’m fully aware more than most what is actually happening in China and have been for over five years , but being a peasant I’ve bought my only second new bike in over 45 years , it’s Chinese’s and I bought from Appleyards as thats my local dealer and I have spoken to Kieran and put a deposit on it , most think it’s a copy , it’s not as the company makes engines for , Kawasaki, ktm, Bmw, ect or so I believe , that shuts some people up .
photography and motorcycling and hifi- the perfect combination and a plan that I follow. All respect to your father. But I do not buy anything made in china, same as I wouldn't buy anything from Russia
I find it very hard to believe that you don’t own anything with some Chinese made components….also a good chance the fuel you buy has some Russian origins having been shipped via other countries to dodge the sanctions
@@thebingleywheeler Yes I'm pretty certain that our home has Chinese made products in it, my point is that if I can avoid their products then I definitely will, even if it means going with a dearer alternative. Why support any country that behaves as they do
It's a rock and a hard place job for a Yorkshireman that, being so *ahem* "value conscious". I feel like my anti-China position is entirely pragmatic. I don't get to influence much in this world but I get to vote with my wallet reasonably regularly, so if I have a choice between a Bangladesh-manufactured shirt and a Chinese-manufactured one or an Enfield and a CF Moto then my decision is clear. YMMV and that's fine, my own Yorkshire heritage runs pretty strong so I'm averse to taking the depreciation hit on a new bike anyway, I can get a second hand Triumph for the cost of a new RE or a used RE for buttons in the scheme of things...
@@thebingleywheeler That's not a decision that's within my control, or even my (NZ) Government's control given we import all our fuel refined from Singapore and Korea.
Of course it’s within your control….electric car/bike or public transport…..funny how principles are a function of the level of inconvenience these days 😎
On Chinese bikes / cars EV or not. I'd put them in the same group as the afore mentioned Eastern block cars. They were rubbish then and in the long run very poor value for money. The Chinese engineering now is in the same boat. Cheaper yes! long term value for money no! They are built to fail. But that's just my take on it, we will see in the future. Did they age well?
I have to agree, they aren't as bad as they were but they are still a little behind in terms of materials quality and build quality, you get what you pay for and as long as you can accept that you'll be fine. They are not an expensive bike that you've got cheap, they are a cheap bike that you've got at a cheap price. Will they last? going by the rust that mine had around the welds and the rusty water stains running out from the swing arm when it was delivered brand new; I doubt it.
I have zero problems with Chinese people or businesses, I just don't like their government; I don't exactly like my own either, so there's that to consider.
It is very unwise to buy Chinese. They have a different approach to quality, and are a geopolitical problem. The Japanese bikes came after the war, not before. Apart from that, I know a guy who waited more than 6 months for a vital part. The Chinese just dont care.
Yes, well said. You could say the same thing about the fantastic stuff made in this country over the years , for instance DSG in Keighley up by you TBW to mention just one, and then consider what Britain did in the Empire days to millions of people , awful. Time is a good healer.
You are so right.. I sometimes look at the FEMA bike recall list.. It details every motorbike manufacturer selling in Europe, recall notices.. Obviously some are major some more minor.. What amazes me is the amount of "prestige" bike manufacturers like BMW, Ducati etc are frequent entrants.. It makes you wonder..
Yep everything changes and it can happen fast. Who'd have thought our grandparents would literally fight for the rights of us and others, leading to numerous treaties and conventions. Then, 2 generations later, many are prepared to throw it all away because they are too lazy to educate themselves. The irony never escapes me.
Yes you put it perfectly 👍🏻
Within the saga of the coming of Japanese cars to the US, Datsun's Mr. K recruited a fair number of former Studebaker dealers. Many of whom were asked in media about their impressions of Japanese machinery. The typical quote was they had great respect for Japanese devices having spent a bit of their twenties staring into the wrong end of it.
My Dad was in the RAF Regiment during WW2. His love of bikes was passed to me - it's in the blood. We hired a TV from Wigfalls and I remember our first colour TV was a Philips dual standard set. It was on the cusp of the changeover in 1968 and you could either watch 405 line VHF black & white or 625 line uhf colour. We had the huge "H" shaped aerial for the former and the more familiar (and compact by comparison) Yagi for the latter. The first video recorders cost the equivalent of about £3500 in today's money so many people rented these too. How many of us still say we've got a programme "recorded" to watch later? 😂
USA here - similar story, Dad was a Marine in the S. Pacific in 1944. Skip forward to the 70s, he drove a VW & Mazda, shot a Minolta & listened to a Yamaha. But I've always wondered how hard that must've been....
Wise words James 👍🏻
That was a fantastic trip down memory lane. We used to rent our tv (a Phillips I think) from Radio Rentals and Bang & Olafsons was something way out of our spending range..! But I still have my dad’s Kodak Folding Brownie Six-20. Cheers👍
Great memories eh Nick 😊
My old man was in the eighth army fighting the German's. 25 years later both his sons were working for German companies and he used to say he would never have given that credence 25 years earlier. I remember saying to him, come on dad just because they bombed our chippy isn't it about time you learned to live and let live. He never did.
My late father in law served in the Pacific in WWII and was no fan of the Japanese. It took him forty years after the war’s end before he bought a Japanese car. A Nissan Maxima. He thought it was one of the best cars he’d ever owned.
Funnily enough, my old man was an RAF engineer stationed in N India during WW2. He was a Flight Sergeant, involved in parachutes and safety equipment.
Motorcycling covers a long time scale. I was taught to ride in the 60s by my grandfather who brought me up. He was taught by a DR in 1917, And I taught my son who now lives in Bangkok and rides a Chinese 150.
Great video, love the stories, keep them coming👍
My Father-in-Law served in India with British Army before the War, and he ended up in Burma....so, understandably, he had a similar attitude to your Pa....My Mother-in-Law was a Land Army Girl, so worked with German POW's....and she wasn't too fond of them....we got prejudice from all angles....lol
Well I'll be....living in Khao Lak Thailand now & to hear Henconner lane mentioned as a Leeds lad was a real blast from the past, TBW.
I try not to dwell on the past, but look at today and the future. Governments are not the working people. I grew up poor in the States. Always had food on the table and none of us treated others better or worse. I love the name Norman as was my uncle's name. Just bought a Classic 350 and a GT 650. Named them "Beauty and the Beast". Never had kids so all my true loves have 2 wheels. 👍👍5🏍🙋♂️
Absolutely loved this one, my father wasn't quite old enough to have been in the war but he did his National Service out in Asia and India, the description of your dad mirrored my dad's hobbies and interests exactly except for the addition of Tropical fish on my dads part. The loft was his dark room where he mixed up his potions and housed his enlarger, downstairs was his stereo equipment with his Linn sondek complete with an SME arm and Sure pick up, along side his Trio quadrophonic tuner amp and Wharfdale speakers; plus his huge 5 head reel to reel. He was a motor mechanic and there was always a friend or neighbours car on the drive being serviced or repaired by him to fund his hobbies, a trait that rubbed off on me in later years to fund my biking. Not a lot of money but times still felt better back then; or maybe it was because I was young and still without a care in the World. I've just bought a Voge 300 Rally from Appy's partly based on your review ( I did drop your name) to run along side my BMW GS which is really a bit too heavy for me at 65 to be blasting around the Dales trails on. Keep 'em coming, I do enjoy your musings👍
Thank you Mick some real similarities there pal. My old man had a massive old reel to reel too it weighed a ton! Hope you enjoy the Voge 😊😂
A lot of the leather goods in the Harley Davidson dealership are made in Vietnam.Ironic Viet Nam veterans wearing leather jacket 🧥 or boots made in Vietnam. USA is Viet Nam' s biggest trading partner.l would only buy a Stormbreaker because as a top of the line motorcycle it won't be low quality like a lot of the smaller bikes suffer from.They also makes a copy of the 1200 liquid cooling Triumph. I love all my British vintage motorcycles
Sound sensible comments as always 👍
Back in the very early '80's and working as Buyer for a large multi-national agricultural machine manufacturer, an Indian company offered us a gearbox casting for one of our top-selling machines. The off-tool sample they provided looked fine, was to drawing but it was porous and 'sweated' oil through the casing. The supplier was a well-regarded Indian aircraft manufacturer; needless to say, we did not proceed with them. However, in the 45 years since then, their quality has improved exponentially. So will that of Chinese bikes.
Working at a college motor-vehicle department a student had a Chinese 125 and less than a year he donated it to the college frustrated by its failures in every way. The college lecture decided to take the Chinese bike less than a year old and a 15-year-old Yamaha BR125 apart and examining them for failures and metallurgy. The Yamaha was rusty and looked a shed however the Chinese bike was Vastly inferior, the metals all inferior and soft. This was about 10 years ago and I would never buy a Chinese bike through the experience, although I have to respect the tests on UA-cam the later bikes. That experience is sewn in my head. The Yamaha was engineered, the Chinese bike never fit for purpose. We were able to stretch the chain with a vice and grips. The Yamaha had done 20k, the other less than a thousand.
10 years is a long time
I, as many on here, sat listening to this video reminiscing about growing up in the 70s with parents/grandparents who had negative views of both German and Japanese commodities. And during my life have seen how both have come to be two of the richest countries in the world.
With that aside, in recent years, as well as enjoying my biking (RE Super Meteor 650 Celestial in Blue), I have come to collect watches, and it was interesting to see your Chinese camera made by Seagull. This China backed company today is a massive producer of watches, with (wait for it) a legal copy of an earlier Swiss automatic movement. This movement is seen in e.g. the Seagull 1963 pilots watch, which is actually respected by horological gurus!
As with the growth of the German and Japanese economies, I agree the Chinese are now overtaking these, if not by sheer per head capita, then by value for money.
Thanks for these videos. They keep me well entertained.
Probably shouldn’t judge manufacturing from any country to harshly because they are just citizens trying to put food on the table. The issue is the government’s of those countries who’s values interest and concerns are not that of the people’s.
Absolutely spot on sir 😊👍🏻
I remember when Japanese bikes first came on the scene. They were mainly small powered commuter machines but soon they started making bigger more powerful bikes and people realised that they were cheaper and more reliable than their European counterparts. Sem with the Asian car industry, they gave very long warranties on the first ones that were imported in to Europe and people realised that you would definitely get much more bang for your buck. Now look how many chinese MGs there are on our roads, where people looked on them with suspicion when they first came our they are now selling in droves and of course going up in price. I am definitely going to try out one of the CF Moto 450Mt's when they are available over here. They are cheaper than most of the other small ADV bikes and with their tie in to KTM and the rave reviews from the European press will probably be a sound bike. I bet if they take off the prices will soon go up?
All the best i allmost fell of my chair when i saw that Tandberg tv we hade that as well because my mom woorked at Tandberg when that first coolor tv came out we get to test it before it came out to stores brings back memorys suddenly i was populer a mong freids wanting to see cartoons in collor, soory English isent my language ride safe on your Classic i em glad i got mine to put a smile on every time bimble time 😊
Thank you your English is very good 👍🏻
Good morning Dave brilliant video with so many memory jerks for me, 1980s we rented a Tandberg t.v. From Vallances in Ilkley for five years, so pleased with it I offered to buy it but they wanted 90% of the new price. Bought a Sony to replace it, broke after two years.
Had Zenit cameras for astro photography.. simple and fantastic images.
My mate had a Lada Niva 4x4 for 20 years and never missed a beat and cost peanuts to run.
Finally, and perhaps more importantly, your video picture and sound quality far exceeds most of the main stream UA-camrs, a real pleasure on the senses.
I will be watching this space, the suspense is killing me.
Andy.
Cheers Andy Tandbergs were classic tellys built to last. Zenits were bomb proof as were Ladas. I doubt that the suspense is quite killing you 😂
@@thebingleywheeler well you did like the Himalayan 450.
@Andy_Bat see what you did there 🤣
What a brilliant video. I seem to remember me mam and dad having a telly that you had to put a 2 Bob bit into a box on the back for it to work. And being sent to the local outdoor for a bottle of bullseye brown ale for me mam.
Great memories there pal 😊
Hi Dave, love to hear chat re hi fi. I am a hi fi man. Linn/Naim. I allways said the vinyl LP, was the most enjoyable listening experience. 😊
Nice ride out too😊
Lovely stuff. I've mainly got Cyrus gear with Focal speakers 👍
Absolutely the same view from Switzerland! Your examples are funny, as I had some of the same experiences. 1 example : in 1980 I was in London for the first time with a friend and our 125 ccs (Yam DTMX and Kawa KE) . Long 3 days trip, driving left in that huge town (mine was 20'000 🙃) but with the help of so great people including the police it was ok.. We slept in East Acton in a "tent city" for 1 pound per day and were the happiest boys on Earth. We had to buy a camera, as ours didn't work... For the equivalent of 50 Swiss francs, we could buy either a plastic Kodak Instamatic or... a beautiful Lubitel made in USSR! We bought the Lubitel... But could never see any picture we did, as we had to take a taxi to go to a hospital (nothing serious) but with the stress we forgot the Lubitel in it...
Thank you for the reflexion and I hope our shared experiences are helpful to everybody.
Ah yes the Lubitel 6x6 TLR!
@@thebingleywheeler Yes 🙂
Wise man with wise words.
Im having the same experience with my 2023 bsa goldstar i have ridden since 1970 90cv to 1400cc british and japanese this is a great well made in India motorcycle
Well my old man used to fix old TV and electric stuff, I use to have a darkroom back in the day, they were still using those type of camera's in the early 2000's lol.
Yes chinese EV's.
Good point; well made.
How Bizarre !!!! I myself worked for Vallances, in Leeds opposite the Corn Exchange actually in "The Audiolab" - wonder if we ever came across each other ?
This connection business gets very strange now - I also worked for Tandberg on Elland Road and visited the factories in Oslo 2 or 3 times a year. Oh the stories from that part of my life ...
Great memories from the past. We must be from the same era , 1961 I was hatched.
1962 😎
👏👏👏👏👏Well said ultimate common sense....
Remember the lubitel 166b medium format Russian camera. About a tenth of the price of a medium format camera of the time, no light meter but was a great introduction for me to the wonderful world of black and white medium format. Went onto a Bronica 6.45 (very posh and expensive) but the little Lubitel was always a joy. Happy days loading 120 roll film, developing it then printing your own photo s. I darkened a small 2nd bathroom we had in the house and printed the photo s on an enlarger which was positioned on the toilet seat. Those were the days ❤
To be fair the Lubitel was a poor camera, I owned two of them. Flimsy plastic with a 3-element taking lens which would jump out of sync with the focusing lens. However they cost 12 quid, so no complaints! There's no motorcycle comparison because no bikes are that bad, or that cheap. Bikes like MZ were unfairly maligned, and in some ways were better than their western equivalents. My issue with Chinese bikes is an over-reliance on any single overseas country for manufacturing, but that's what happens when you sacrifice a mixed economy for a service economy.
Totally agree
Why I this world would anyone pay such exorbitant prices for a Motorcycle that cost more than many Cars
Getting close to 40 thousand US dollars- Even if I could afford one based on principle I would not buy and the market is reflective and those so called premium bikes are slowing in sales
I have been chasing the market for a while and my solution was
A Royal Enfield Interceptor which I bought used
2022 with only 2000 miles for 4000 US DOLLARS and this bike had about 1000 US of additional items already on it
Enjoyed your talk and respect your opinion
Regards from Florida
Thank you John and best wishes
Growing up in the Far East, a number of family friends were ex POWs having been captured after the fall of Malaya and Singapore. How they survived, I'll never know. They were some of the nicest, most accommodating people I've ever had the pleasure to meet.
Anyhow, most expats, whether they had fought in the Far East or not, would have nothing to do with Japanese items. But, from the early 1970s that started to change especially with electronics. I'm don't know why, but some Japanese items, cameras and sound systems in the most part, became more acceptable to the expat community.
All very true indeed sir 👍🏻
l once owned a Zenith 80 medium format.. copy of the Hasselblad . It was supplied with two magazines, lens of course and a couple of other items l cant remember now all nicely packaged in a carrying case. The Zorki you referred to was a copy of the Leica rangefinder. Both these cameras were a lot cheaper than the originals. However, they did introduce me into another world of photography ...later, when finances allowed l owned a Bronica medium format and Leica...The Leica in its rangefinder format was a work of art ..Its price reflected that....still does.
Yes Leica are true masterpieces….i recently sold my 3 mint bronicas….great cameras
@@thebingleywheeler Yes they were, My Bronica was a 6x4.5 in the late seventies.Great format for darkroom work ..
@brianperry yes they were I had the 645, SQAi and GS-1…..wish I’d kept them
I have had two Benelli Trk502 first one absolutely spot on no problems whatsoever an equal to any Honda Cb500 I have seen or road . However first one I bought brand new , second was an ex demo as no stock around . Second phase 2 model hadn,t really been looked after and after only 700 miles had peeling paint , rust streaks out of every weld and to be perfectly honest was very poor .
The last one I had was back in 2021 . Will I have another absolutely YES . Since 2021 I have been running a R1200GS guess what !!! peeling paint and rust all over it so it’s not only Chinese bikes that suffer ,BMW is now gone . If you don’t,t treat them right in there early years they will become tatty irrespective of where it’s built .
So I have been looking at the new Benelli,s and CF Moto the quality has leaped again since I had one in 2021 ,so you can see where my money will be going . Benelli trk702 is mypreferred choice however we will see as want to have a look at the new 450 Mt before making my mind up .
The quality is there imo but there is still prejudice like there was in the 70 ,s . Well done Dave for championing the cause and dispelling the myths of far east manufactured bikes .
You put that into perspective so well mate, thank you, and I’m inclined to agree on 99%… just not sure on residual values.. really interesting video though..
Cheers Duncan
I started my photography hobby with a Zenith EM SLR for a few years before moving onto a Pentax ME Super. My father also fought the Japanese in Burma and wasn’t exactly keen on them. Our first colour tv as a kid was a Grundeg which we had for about 15 years, it had a sonic remote control which meant if you put some coins in your hands and jiggled them or used the Hoover then the channel would change or the colour would go to full, lol
Yes I had the Zenit EM….Grundig now there’s a name from the past!
There is an argument that the best route for democracy is via trade and as a wealthier middle class emerges then they naturally want more freedoms and eventually living standards improve for everyone. Now I'm not smart enough to know how much that is true but I am smart enough to know that me not buying a Chinese thing is not going to change anything. Everyone has to do what they feel is right but the simple fact is that if they produce a good enough product at a competitive price then it will sell. Remember the joke "what do you call a convertible Skoda?........A skip" nobody jokes about Skoda anymore do they? Sure there are some manufacturers who will fall by the wayside like Lada and Yugo did but those who learn and develop will undoubtably find a market.
Spot on buddy 👍🏻
I had a couple of Praktika SLR cameras too when I first started out. I also had a Lubitel 166 TLR. I believe the Seagull TLR was a copy of the Rollie 🤔
Yes I moved on to a Praktika LTL3 (East German?)
@@thebingleywheeler MTL3 me. Those Pentakon lenses were pretty good at the time too. I had a 50mm, 28mm and 135mm. I think I've still got one somewhere. M42 screw fitting makes them very easy to adapt to a modern digital camera too 👍
Good morning Dave , A very interesting video today & yes i agree with you 100% , price wise it makes perfect sense , lets face it money is tight enough to start with , i'd eat humble pie to get a new bike rather than a second hand one , regardless of the country's origin , take care & ride safe
Cheers Steve yes we all have to count our pennies 👍🏻
Chinese and Indian Bikes are taking over the market. I feel for to long the established brands have been taking advantage of bikers in fact ripping us bikers off. As you say there is a social issue as well i would suggest that established brands source many parts from China and India. My Mum would not have anything Japanese for many years LOL due to the war
If the British motorcycles industry were not run into the ground by their management the Japanese would have had more competition than just the Italian motorcycle industry. After the British motorcycles industry committed suicide the Japanese had the motorcycle market to themselves. I had my British record ⏺️ player 8- Track tape player in one. Japanese copying everything.
Well this is the thing about engineering, it can be separated from politics. The Japanese imperial ambitions had little to do with their engineering capabilities ( other than the war effort). So the real character of the people shows in their quite remarkable engineering, just as the British bikes were of their day. The Indian bikes are now great , time and improved designs move them forward.
I would like to think that Chinese bikes might be the same, but the influence of the CCP is all encompassing and design seems to be transactional , a buying and making deal with someone else’s name. A political push by the party to sell and influence others.
This is not the same sentiment as the Japanese post war, their intent was to rebuild the country and each of the companies heads were enthusiasts and focused on excellence.
I’m sure that some Chinese companies have similar intent but the party line rules all.
I had a SWM Silver vase , a quite lovely to ride 441 single scrambler, it was a great design but the component parts were very very cheaply made. Despite its Italian company roots, it rusted within months (/always garaged) the engine ( a Honda copy ) was a real gem and the italian frame and handling were very good.
So, I liked it but I won’t be buying another, there was just a sense of fraud about it, an insincerity or lack of passion. Its Italian heritage was simply a ploy to sell engines to an old firm who wanted to sell bikes.
The love of bikes is a lot more than just performance and marketing, there are intangibles such as character and heritage and authenticity. The Chinese bikes to don’t have thus, some are great to ride but to me they are just products at this point.
There is also the politics, yes your dad was able to put aside his prejudice, the so should we , but WW2 ended and the world moved on, the current regime in China is still there and to me that’s worth considering.
Pye audio 😂
Another son of an RAF engineer from WW2 here. My objection to the growing Chinese presence in the market is their national business model. Their government subsidise the manufacturing industries to the effect they can undercut other suppliers and gradually put them out of business, whilst completely ignoring copyright and intellectual property of the stuff they are mimicking. As soon as the opposition are gone, prices will rise and we'll have no choice. It's not a stategy I hold with and for me, amounts to a quiet WW3. All of this whilst treating their own people in an appalling manner. It's all a race to the bottom, rather like a certain Brazilian sounding marketplace where folks buy something because it's 10p cheaper and it all heads towards very low quality products being the only ones available. Guess I'm just a grumpy old dinosaur but it leaves a bad taste...
We rented our TV from D.E.R 😬
I get your what your saying Dave, It is very difficult not to purchase anything made in China nowadays, cheaper labour and cheaper products. I use to chat with old boy who was a Japanese prisoner of war he hated them. Now Japan has become democratic with Germany its different. But China is a dictatorship who rule there people with an iron bar, No western Internet, there human rights are terrible. I did hear China are offloading some of there production to North Korean factors to save on costs. Its not a nice country, They put high imports duties on Western products but expect there imports to be cheaper. There try to influence our universities with funding and donating money to political parties. There are funding the Russians to fight the Ukrainians. There say one thing but do another!! Not to be trusted. Much recently a cyber attack on our government military website linked to China. Also with Chinese bikes what has to be considered is resale value and after sale service ?
I’m not sure all of what we’re told about what they’re up to is true….our media tend to be state puppets these days. Saudi is every bit as bad but we’re happy to buy their oil aren’t we?
@@thebingleywheeler Yes true about saudi, but most people don't have no option. Electric vehicles are to expensive. I use a van for work have you seen the price for electric vans!! I remember going to America a few years ago and trying to buy a baseball cap not made in China.😆 Just saying.
@@thebingleywheeler I have tried hard to make this reply conversational rather than confrontational. That said, I would respectfully take issue with your use of the word "happy", and I don't think the Saudi ruling classes are "as bad" as those in China. (It's my view that the Chinese state engages in slavery and organ harvesting of ethnic religious minorities on an industrial scale, and the evidence I have seen is from independent outlets).
I believe the situation with the mainstream media is more complex than just being state puppets. I perceive a curious balance between their traditional goal (making money) and the dangerous naïveté and ignorance of their graduate appointees of the last few decades. A growing number of outlets are laying staff off or even going to the wall. Your eloquence far out-strips that of so many "professional" journalists.
It is unfortunate that most western corporations have kow-towed to the Chinese state in order to sell stuff to their huge populace, and also to get cheap (and probably free in many cases) labour for goods and components of goods that are then imported back here, to the extent that it's impossible to prevent one's hard-earned cash, at least in part, finding its way there. My shameful purchase of Insta360 cameras is testament to that, and goes some way to validating the point of your video.
Each of us has a threshold, of course, and although I appreciate that my life choices have afforded me a certain flexibility, all I can say is I try in my own fallible way to vote with my wallet.
Good video , I did laugh a few times , we have met at the 59 , RIP to your dad , I’m fully aware more than most what is actually happening in China and have been for over five years , but being a peasant I’ve bought my only second new bike in over 45 years , it’s Chinese’s and I bought from Appleyards as thats my local dealer and I have spoken to Kieran and put a deposit on it , most think it’s a copy , it’s not as the company makes engines for , Kawasaki, ktm, Bmw, ect or so I believe , that shuts some people up .
Some great points there Stephen very well made
Caveat emptor dave ,there better made than they use to be still not to the point were i would buy one.
They’re as good as any Japanese equivalent I’ve ridden
Rentavision
Would he have bought Japanese products before the war?
photography and motorcycling and hifi- the perfect combination and a plan that I follow. All respect to your father. But I do not buy anything made in china, same as I wouldn't buy anything from Russia
I find it very hard to believe that you don’t own anything with some Chinese made components….also a good chance the fuel you buy has some Russian origins having been shipped via other countries to dodge the sanctions
@@thebingleywheeler Yes I'm pretty certain that our home has Chinese made products in it, my point is that if I can avoid their products then I definitely will, even if it means going with a dearer alternative. Why support any country that behaves as they do
How does norman cope coming out of pateley up the hill to greenhow
2nd gear all good
It's a rock and a hard place job for a Yorkshireman that, being so *ahem* "value conscious".
I feel like my anti-China position is entirely pragmatic. I don't get to influence much in this world but I get to vote with my wallet reasonably regularly, so if I have a choice between a Bangladesh-manufactured shirt and a Chinese-manufactured one or an Enfield and a CF Moto then my decision is clear. YMMV and that's fine, my own Yorkshire heritage runs pretty strong so I'm averse to taking the depreciation hit on a new bike anyway, I can get a second hand Triumph for the cost of a new RE or a used RE for buttons in the scheme of things...
And your petrol from Saudi??
@@thebingleywheeler That's not a decision that's within my control, or even my (NZ) Government's control given we import all our fuel refined from Singapore and Korea.
Of course it’s within your control….electric car/bike or public transport…..funny how principles are a function of the level of inconvenience these days 😎
I think you would buy one
😂😂😂
On Chinese bikes / cars EV or not. I'd put them in the same group as the afore mentioned Eastern block cars. They were rubbish then and in the long run very poor value for money. The Chinese engineering now is in the same boat. Cheaper yes! long term value for money no! They are built to fail. But that's just my take on it, we will see in the future. Did they age well?
I have to agree, they aren't as bad as they were but they are still a little behind in terms of materials quality and build quality, you get what you pay for and as long as you can accept that you'll be fine. They are not an expensive bike that you've got cheap, they are a cheap bike that you've got at a cheap price. Will they last? going by the rust that mine had around the welds and the rusty water stains running out from the swing arm when it was delivered brand new; I doubt it.
I have zero problems with Chinese people or businesses, I just don't like their government; I don't exactly like my own either, so there's that to consider.
Me neither
So
Chinese stuff cant be compared to Japanese quality.
It is very unwise to buy Chinese.
They have a different approach to quality, and are a geopolitical problem.
The Japanese bikes came after the war, not before.
Apart from that, I know a guy who waited more than 6 months for a vital part.
The Chinese just dont care.
And the Saudi based petrol?
Capitalism brings us together.
Yes, well said. You could say the same thing about the fantastic stuff made in this country over the years , for instance DSG in Keighley up by you TBW to mention just one, and then consider what Britain did in the Empire days to millions of people , awful. Time is a good healer.