Are Chinese Motorcycles taking over?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- In this video we're exploring the growth of Chinese motorcycle companies particularly in the west as they look to expand and build the infrastructure necessary to become key players
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I am a US citizen living in the Philippines.
Year round riding here (😊)
I have a 650 Kawasaki that is wonderful.
I also have a Chinese 250.
Air cooled, fuel injection, 6 spd box, triple disk brakes.
Love the Kaw of course, but use the 250 for daily utility.
Have to say, it is a good runner, 19hp.....fine for a 250, and has been a trouble free bike.
Shifting feels a bit clunky, but is all I can say that is not fully 100% of my Japanese bike ownership experience over the last 40 years.
It cost me $1,700 new.
No complaints.
Is called a Rusi Classic 250i.
Google it....a good looking bike.
RC 250i feels so good to ride with.
Isn't 19 HP too low for a 250cc? The Hero Karizma XMR which is a 210cc produces 25 HP, while still being dirt cheap.
@@derkonig2292From what I've seen, yeah it's a bit underpowered, a Colombian (Technically also Chinese since it's a partnership)Akt NKD 125 makes 11hp and the Rusi Classic 250i that he mentions only makes 15hp and funnily enough both seem to be from the same family only different brands
I'm also in the Philippines. I see Rusi bikes all over the place. Years ago I was considering buying a Skygo but all my friends and family advised me against it, saying that I should only buy "branded" bikes because they last longer and sell better if I choose to sell it. I chose Yamaha and Honda bikes.
It does look sweet! But I'm affraid that as a European I'm a bit too heavy to enjoy a bike with just 19 hp. 400cc is the least I consider
Rise of the chinese motorcycle industry has to be seen in much wider view. It isn't just motorcycles, it's about chinese learning that it isn't just huge quantities of disposable goods with lowest possible price tags. Chinese EV industry has shown China can produce premium goods with affordable prices and that's spreading through the chinese industry in whole. China is having some growing pains and they are making also big mistakes but China is growing to be a technological and economical force to recon. They already have the knohow to make things in huge quantities, now they are learning quality.
and we underestimate the will, they want to do it, desperately,,,, this can only be good for the middle weight class i-e 400cc - 600cc as @bart points out. Don't forget their prowess in EVs, you can get same spec same design chinese ebike for half the price of Suron ,,ZERO watch out!! ,,,the list is long
Yeah no Chinese EV is shit. Have you seen the design? They basically copy paste it from other manufacturers, the plastic shell is so cheep you can bend it with your hand, some components like the touch screen fail after one day of use, charger getting stuck, batteries exploding and worst of all airbags sometimes don’t deploy. Yeah trust me man if it’s Chinese, odds are what under the hood won’t last past the first month.
In fact, motorcycle manufacturers in China are not big companies.
Because there are many cities in China that restrict the licensing of motorcycles. Because of the small market, no big company is willing to enter this market.
Relatively speaking, many automobile manufacturers in China are large companies. They represent the most advanced productive forces in China's electromechanical field.
Lol... Nope... Chinese govt gave huge subsidiary to ev making due to which byd was able to produce ev at such low price... They produced so many ev's that's their inventory is full and now dumping ev in other countries.... 😂
@@tinlephuochuu9493😯 and they should provide manufacturer warranty right 😊
Having done some market survey and forum browsing over the years, my takeaway is that their engines are pretty reliable, your worries should be more on electrical issues after riding in the rain or a was, loose screws, rust, and small welds breaking
The good brands like cfmoto and Benelli have bolts that rust out. Everyone whinges about it, blah blah crap Chinese quality! But then looking at Thai built Honda or Yamaha doing the exact same thing there's silence
@@chrispekel5709 Owned a Kawasaki Vulcan S, my suspension is leaking. My other bike, BENDA BlackFlag 500 has the same problem.
The Kawasaki asked me for around 100 bucks in USD, and Benda asked nothing but bike in their 4S workshop for 2 days.
Well... I'm having fun with my Vulcan on the street in the city.
Yet , I'm having fun without any financial burden in mind with my Benda。I can ride it like a ADV in dirt without worry about what will happend next. A broken turning light? Nah. Scrach on the wheel? Nah. Dent on the frame buttom? Ehe.... Nah.🤣
@@chrispekel5709what is expected on bolts rusting like what's to be done
Until stainless bolts are cheap it's gonna be an issue on all bikes and cars.
Steel rust its nature
Im not gona deny those Zontes and Voge bikes look pretty good and "reputable" vloggers are reviewing them. Right now im a Honda man , the future. Who knows...
I have 2 Harleys and a Suzuki but my Zontes is my go to for everything except highway, three years in, no problems.
I did change the rock hard rear shocks but I had to do that on the Harleys.
In my country, when Zontes break down, especially those unnecessary electronics, the bike is essentially useless, and even their dealer here can't get spare parts.
BART’s videos always entertaining
*Bart
@@vincedibona4687 *bart
As someone who lives close the former centre of the german motorcycle industry, it's interesting to see how history repeats itself again and again. Our motorcycle industry used to be quite large with an decent output of high quality motorcycles. Its peak was around the 1920s to 1930s with one last large Boom in the 1950s until cars became more affordable. After the german industry died completely (except for BMW), the Brits followed and died out too. Hopefully the same doesn't happen to all the japanese manufactures. I am more than willing to throw my money at the Japanese rather than the Chinese......
One thing you didn’t mention, perhaps it’s not well known, is that motorcycles inside China are on the decline, they are banned from most cities and metropolitan areas, where they used to be common. This means Chinese companies are looking more to export, as the domestic market is gone. Same for electric bikes, they are common place in China, since they are not covered by the bans, that technology is making its way to the export market.
So it doesn't matter whether it's banned or allowed in China, in decline or in demand. If they make them, they want to export them
Why they banned
@@subasthapa4839 pollution
Something to add here, new motorcycle owners in China are currently subject to a policy that limits the lifespan of their bikes to 13 years from the date of purchase. This applies to all types of motorcycles, whether they are imported or domestically manufactured. After the 13-year period, owners are required to hand over their motorcycles to local authorities for scrapping and disposal. Despite opposition from many riders, this policy remains in effect.
Are you saying that an electric motorbike is not a motorbike? 😂😂😂.
Can you check to see what a "biased point of view" means. You need to stop getting brainwashed by your media. China is going Electric - EVs, E-bikes, E- public transport...
In the 60s Poland produced the most motorcycles in the world. Nobody seems to know that.
And then Honda came along.........
True?
@@pede8889 Yup. In late 50s and early 60s people in Poland couldn't afford cars after all the destruction from the WW2, so motorcycles absolutely exploded. But as cars became affordable, people turned to them
@@Scisca1a2a Well then, "Italy made the most scooters after the War". But since Italy was allied with Germany for most of it... fanculo a loro.
I've ridden a mondial 125 and a Chinese electric "Harley styled scooter" (HL 6.0, which I've completely rebuilt), and I also own 2 Japanese bikes (FZ6 and VFR 800) that are both 18+ years old. The Mondial and the electric scooter are an absolute pain to work on, just crappy in every nook and cranny. The Yamaha and Honda are, you guessed it, a dream, just rock solid. I've done the valve check on the fz6 at 45k miles, not one valve clearance out of spec. When I'll hear similar stories of Chinese bikes, I'll consider buying one. You don't get to woo me with fancy plastics covering shoddy engineering.
On a different subject so as to speak. Its the same with Chinese electronics. The electronics company Xiegu now produce a Shortwave transceiver which can stand alone for design, reliability and function.
I don't think China cares much about the USA motorcycle market. Total sales in Asian countries like China and India dwarfs USA sales. Maybe there is some prestige element to making big Harley style cruisers that will show the world Chinese producers have arrived in the big time, but in terms of sales and market size the USA is irrelevant.
European mamufacturers are signing their own death warrant with their greedy pricing even though a lot of their component production and assembly is in china.
I was against Chinese bikes but im warming to them now that the other manufacturers are using inflation as an excuse to screw customers.
I own two CFMOTO bikes, a 300sr which has 8000+ klms on it, both commuting and touring, when CFMOTO released the 450 SRS I headed to my local dealer and bought one , in the 3 weeks since owning it I have put 1500 Klms on it, both bikes are fabulous, ample power, great build quality, comfortable despite sport orientation, in my stable I also have a Harley and a Royal Enfield, I love all of my bikes, I am not a fan of the CCP, but I have to give credit where credit is due, CFMOTO make fabulous bikes.
Motorcycle repair shop near me won't touch these Chinese bikes. The quality is junk and parts are a pain to track down.
they are cheaper in part because China refused to use high grade steel and alloy so enjoy your new bike that will fall apart after two years if it lasts that long
In the end cultural mindset shines through. I happen to like the Japanese mindset, it's like they need to prove their worth in everything they make. I'd hate to live in that culture but they certainly produce some impressive stuff.
The Chinese mindset seems to be to off load volume for profit by making it look shiny in that tacky chromed plastic sort of way.
"electric motorcycle" is not something people are going to want in the USA.
I don't think it's a good thing China to start pumping stolen designs made from cheaper alloys in questionable factory conditions at a cheap price forcing the rest of the world to cut corners to compete on price so we get cheaper motorcycles. We just need better monetary policy, less inflation, sound money that doesn't lose it's value 10-15% every year and then motorcycle prices can stay the same without sacrificing quality. How about that?
My first motorcycle was a Chinese bike. It was a piece of crap. I sold it a year later for 60% of its value, just in a year it lost all that value. After that experience I swore that I would never buy a Chinese vehicle in my life again. I ride Japanese bikes now, I have had several and when I sell them a few years later I get the money that I paid for them. They barely loose any value.
Chinese manufacturers often flood markets with a plethora of cheap bike models, disrupting the entire industry. I've observed several Chinese brands, like Benelli and QJ Motors, in India for quite some time. While their bikes might appear stylish (often resembling European and Japanese designs) and seem like a good deal compared to other brands, purchasing them is a mistake. These bikes typically last only about three years, and the after-sales experience is poor. Parts availability and service are problematic, and the significant depreciation adds insult to injury. Additionally, their imported EV products are subpar. They've saturated the market with inexpensive EVs, making it difficult for local brands, even those with superior bikes, to compete. These Chinese EVs often have poor build quality. While designed to function in various climates, they are prone to malfunctions in my country, often bursting like balloons at a birthday party. They fail to meet safety or market price standards. I personally know several people who regret buying these so-called "bargain" bikes. Moreover, there's virtually no second-hand market for these bikes, making resale difficult. Delving deeper reveals that most Chinese brands are manufactured by a single company, which sells its products under numerous brands to confuse buyers and exploit various import, sales taxes, and laws. As you mentioned in your video, Chinese bikes might eventually reach the quality of other bikes. However, Japanese and European bikes dominate the market due to consistent competition and research and development. They produce high-quality products offering the best value and performance. The Chinese approach lacks competitiveness. Instead of innovating, they replicate others' designs, flooding the market with millions of cheap, inferior products that swiftly eliminate competition. The Chinese business model appears to lack the concept of fair play.
Quite accurate about their business positioning, and it will be interesting to watch. They could dominate electric light vehicles of all types. The only thing stopping it is the fact that we're increasingly on a war-footing with the Communist Party - and that's no joke. It is a stigma for Americans, and half the world, to invest in China's development. I am wondering if there will be a "Gorbachev" moment in the future or not.
As for pricing - it seems they're creeping up there, and the traditional brands are abundant on the used market. What we really need to see is a category of light vehicle that is road-legal in the utility and commuter vehicle category. That is long overdue.
In the current economy being able to put a 4 cylinder 750/800cc with good reliability and a smooth ride on the market for about 8500 - 9000 max is going to be the strong suit for Chinese motorcycles. If Chinese brands are willing to forward the cheaper labour costs and benefit of mass production into a far lower price but still good quality motorcycle and take say 8000 for a brand new touring bike with 3 suitcases exc, where as for example BMW would ask 12-14k then they will drain the Western brands of their market share. The current financial times are that everything is getting more expensive, and the producer who puts maximum quality for minimum price on the market is going to win.
I want an Ibex 450MT for so many reasons.
It seems every youtube motorcycle channel is trying to convince us to accept the Chinese motorcycles. One UA-cam'r was upfront enough to say the Chinese bikes are easier to obtain for review. I can't help but think this is impacting the reviews.
I am not that open to buying an ICE Chinese bike due to their unproven history and, more importantly, the lack of repair shops.
I am a bit more open to an electric Chinese motorcycle. BYD is leading the world in EV development and China, in general, is making great EVs. Surron is about all we have here right now, but people that own them love them. The only major EV motorcycle brand widely available in the US is Zero. Overpriced with bad range and no standard DCFC port. More competition is needed.
My EV car needs basically zero service, so the lack of service centers are a non-issue.
For now, I will stay with my Honda NC750X.
A little, pedant comment: [at 3:08] - Vespa is not a company; Vespa is a scooter produced by Piaggio. Yes I know you know and it was just a trivial mistake... but I can't resist to be pedant LOL
Well it's not motogp, but Kove did finish the Dakar
funny i know alot of riders but not one of them rides a chinese bike not even a single one
No never. They are always behind European and Japanese brand.
I think CF moto's engines are built under license from KTM and Kawasaki.
That was an interesting video. As a brit, and owner of a BSA in the 70's, I watched in amazement as the Japanese destroyed the British, European and USnA manufacurers.
They delivered top-spec machines that had all the bells and whistles, power, reliability and modern tecnology - such as disk brakes and electric start as standard.
They EARNED the right to their sucess, in the face of apathy from the western manufacturers.
That leaky, smoky, tame (but otherwise fun) BSA was the last non-Japanese bike I ever owned.
I have had Hondas. Kawasakis, and Yamahas, and each of them were works of great engineering, reliability and power.
it will be interesting to see how China proceeds.
Yeap the Japanese work ethic and commitment to quality is in my opinion the best. Germans do the same but the price is much higher. Chinese are not innovators, they copy other peoples products and often use poor quality materials, hence why they are cheap. I don't see them taking over but they will sell a lot of bikes due to people starting to deal with rising costs of living.
The Japanese are one thing now the Chinese are something else. I would never buy a Chinese car much less a motorcycle. The Chinese are best known for Tofu dreg products. Cheap chines e crap.
@@CRFLAus The S1000RR is a copy of a japanese concept and italians copied the design of the Honda NR750 for their 916.
(owner of a RedMoto CRF 300 RX here)
I don't forsee this happening with chinese produced vehicles. Literally the only thing they have beat is price. And they're catching up on quality not because they are getting better, but because everyone else is getting worse
@@CRFLAusThis. The Japanese have 'kaizen' in their DNA - continuous improvement. They are masters of detail.
China does not have 'improvement' in their cultural DNA - it's about money today.
They are already the key players. And they don't need to emulate Japan because Southeast Asia is the motorcycle market, the west is almost irrelevant at this point
And most of us, south east asian, look at the brand before buying a bike, TRUSTED brand. Of vourse we gonna buy them japanese brand instead of chinese. Chinese bike after sale service is bad, after market part is non existent and the quality is unknown. So naaah we aint gonna risk it and play it safe.
Chinese brands have a very bad reputation here in southeast.
❤❤❤❤
@@somilutonthe thing about motorcycles is, a small error and a rider can lose his life. Not so with cars. Thus riders usually stick to Japanese brands for their bikes..tried and proven..and the guy below talked about after sales service, which is non-existent. Sure any mechanic can fix a simple bike, change tyres and stuff, but a spare part without assistance or aftermarket similar parts will be a nightmare to source.
@@thefellcor The worst notion about Chinese bikes is the quality of parts, I have bike rust from just being washed and riding in the rain, the suspension seals bust the moment it's out of warranty, thin wiring cable that lose connection because it pinched the wrong way, yes Chinese bikes are cheap but the price is cut from somewhere.
As a person who doesn't buy anything new, including undies, this "Chinese invasion" creates a problem. When the market is littered with fresh bulk, the old stuff becomes more valuable while spare parts cease to exist. The whole market assumes that everyone would just go buy a new item when the old one stops working. To me, that's waste and waste is bad. I want to fix my old ride with reasonably priced good quality spare parts rather than go buy a cheap new one I know nothing about.
Used undies??? Cheapskate! 🤣
Totally. Sadly even ten year old bikes are harder to work on, and now... forget about it. I also gravitate towards the older used market.
Then you’ll love Chinese motorcycles. Parts are cheap and decent quality on Ali. Issue is they don’t speak English well so navigating that parts market is harder for westerners. But European and US bikes parts are pretty scummy in that they charge more for parts than what a used bike can costs. With that said next bike will be Japanese.
Unfortunately this consumer mindset makes businessmen much less money
cries in 82 honda...... parts are so miserable to find for my 650 nighthawk these days
The fact you can still buy a second hand 20-30 year old Japanese motorcycle with minimal fuss/issues, is where the Chinese need to get to.
Sure new CFMoto looks good - but that’s the issue, it’s new. Give it some time and iron out the issues and they will gain respect.
I ride Honda because it’s had decades to learn/develop. It shows in the end product. Teething issues are long ironed out.
Chinese bike, maybe one day. Right now? I just don’t want one. Resale and reliability is still stacked against them. I know that will change.
CF Moto might be higher quality than the other brands I think they actually licensed designs they purchased some Arctic cat patterns and factory machinery and have some original designs at least for 4-wheelers I don't know about motorcycles though I'm a atv guy
Your comment is the most sensible one in this dumb fest of comment section. As happend with Japanese, lot of Chinese manufacturers will go out of business as time passes and only those making good bikes, anf innovating will survive. However Suzuki seems to be doing fine for being the laziest Japanese bike manufacturer or for that matter anything they make.
Cfmoto and benelli are two decent brands, Cfmoto had been in business for 30 years. They are offering very competitive motorcycles at a fraction of a cost, however I am still holding back for same reasons as you.
Reliability is stacked against them? Not true at all
To be fair. CF Moto products are not great examples of Chinese material construction. Their 450 was a joint development project with KTM engineers. Their 700s are based off the 650 Kawasaki licensing and their 800s are actual KTMs in disguise.
Those platforms are solid. However time will tell if quality building is there to support the product sold.
In Portugal for.example they have created their own division CF Moto Portugal (CFPT,) which will handle the import of bikes and parts. That is something that even some big players don't do over here.
40 year old jap bikes are still good if maintained properly
I bought my first Chinese bike in 2007, a Lifan 200. Rode it 53,000 miles with no mechanical issues. Since then I also bought a Chinese scooter and quad. All very reliable. My advice is don't buy a Chinese bike unless you're willing and able to do all repair and maintenance yourself.
I've found getting parts for my Chinese bikes very easy and quick. Many parts are standardized and available on eBay or Amazon, or other Chinese motorcycle parts sellers. When I replaced the clutch on the Lifan 200 (due to wrong oil), a complete clutch with cush gear was $38 with free shipping.
Buying a Chinese bike is nothing to be proud of
@@logannowak4010 true
@@logannowak4010 can we talk about how Reagan made a tariff for heavyweight motorcycle imports in the 80s to protect Harley Davidson's America-based manufacturing, and how Harley benefited from $2.3 billion in government loans during the 2008 financial crisis, yet still moved their manufacturing overseas? Is that anything to be proud of?
@@thadcox5298I don't own stock in Harley, nor would I buy one.
The communist Chinese government owns the companies that make Chinese bikes.
@@logannowak4010 im proud of owning a couple chinese Emotorcycles, and also excavator, faak you racists.
When I was teaching in China I had a 50 CC step through that was A POS and then I had a Suzuki branded 125 that was every bit as good as the original
found the 10ct intruder
What year was it?
Who do what do wonder why? Chinese motorcycle fastest small money vehicle whole family enjoy
Branded?
Was the Suzuki a copy of something?
While living in the Philippines, I bought a new Chinese 175 cc single cylinder OHV street motorcycle. It had 5 speed gearbox, kick and electric start. I paid the equivalent of $840. The engine was actually a previous Honda design. The motorcycle was great. It fit my needs perfectly. It was also my only transportation. I had USA raingear so, riding in the rain was no problem. I road it as my daily transportation from
2017 - 2022. I am now living in the US but, my Chinese bike is stored in the Philippines. There is a chance, I will move back to the Philippines later this year. When I first bought it, I thought am I crazy it's Chinese? I can tell you the quality is there. Yep, they are copy cats. However, as you mentioned, the Chinese are gradually moving to original design. The biggest motivator for these types of
bikes is the price. It was for me. A comparable Honda motorcycle (which is probably assembled in China) would have cost me at least 30% more money, even in the Philippines.
You would get a better bike if you bought a good 2nd hand Japanese made bike.
@@kethughes8266 Used motorcycles in the Philippines are not maintained and have a tremendous amount of problems. The exception is if you buy a used bike from another foreigner. One Canadian guy bought the cheapest Chinese Rusi bike new for $750. He road it for about 3 years and sold it for $600 in a day to another foreigner. If you are in the Philippines then
you gotta buy a new bike unless buying from another foreigner.
I had one im 2012-2015 or so, also in SEA. It was fine, but large and overweight, underpowered and had bad build quality.
However, my Honda scooter is now showing its age, and I'm seriously considering a Chinese EV bike. Build quality varies a LOT (I've test ridden and looked at quite a few), but I think they're probably leaders in that market.
@@senseofstile Different market to the one I am used to where I live Chinese bikes rust rapidly to say nothing about political principles.Buying Chinese is just feeding the beast.
@@kethughes8266 Got a 1983 Honda cx650 c last year. She was only made for one year, but as I bring her back up to specs, I've snagged every part i've needed on Ebay. 1200 bucks. She's nice. Took all the gas out of it and put in clear gas(no ethanol)...got my 64 horses now, oh yeah. Last bike, 40 yrs ago was a '68 650 Bonnie. I'm movin' up. The brakes are better, that's for sure. Plus an extra 20 horses....but a little heavier. Shaft drive. She's a work of art. Black motor is gorgeous. As you say, old Japanese....I'll take that over old chinese or new... any day.
Sí, y al chile que bueno.
Me encanta que los países del "libre mercado" de repente ya no creen tanto en él cuando llega China y les come el mandado.
Hermano latinoamericano, no se están quejando en el video, están planteando si realmente lo lograrán. Deja de lado el filtro anti imperialista yanki de los 90s, es ridículo.
I ride a Chinese 250 cc dirt bike. It has more features, like a fully adjustable suspension, 6 speeds, and a counterbalanced engine, that many Japanese bikes don't have. I've only had it 8 months but its holding up well, rides great and is a lot of fun. So far the only thing I've had to replace is the chain, it was too stretchy and had to be adjusted every few rides. Hopefully it will hold up long term
What’s the name / model? I drive a Chinese Tekken 250, wonderful little bike!
@@Qasibr its an x-pro templar X
China is perfectly capable of manufacturing high quality products, it's just that most manufacturers in China are more focused on making cheap products, and when that is your focus quality tends to suffer.
A literal country of "military grade" products.
I totally agree. There is nothing special about western people that make them produce better products. Building cheap just what makes more sense for Chinese Manufacturers. In the majority of Southeast Asia, the median income does not allow for luxury goods. As a result, the manufacturer builds to the consumer base. A westerner just has the opportunity to purchase these cheaper products. China manufacturers also produces many high-end products for the west, like Foxconn or power tools.
The culture in China is when something breaks, throw it out and buy a new one.
@@KevinSmith-qi5yn, China is using slave labor and government subsidies to make inexpensive products that undercut the industries of western countries. There is nothing “free market” about what China is doing.
Yes they produce pretty cheap products mostly for the domestic market and their export stuff is not sold to the general public because it's better quality and I found that to be so
They are already 70 percent of the mexican market. They are cheap with reliable engines but Bad electronic parts. They feel cheap but they can last up to 80k miles without engine failures. You can Buy a 150cc for 800bucks brand new, or a 300cc for 2.5k usd. Good bikes for new riders.
But don't believe You are getting a good deal. You get what You pay.
Chinese built bikes based on the specifications of their customer unlike western ones. If the customer asks a scooter/motorcycle quality that matched a price point they will deliver even sourcing parts from Japan Taiwan or EU. Thats how a Chinese deliver unlike western that you accept what it comes out of the factory. Example a Zongshen K01 3-wheeled rickshaw is hand-gear shifter but my country importer wanted a foot shifter, in the end my country importer got the foot shifter.
I have one of these engines and love it
Shoot, Harley has been building Chinese motorcycles for decades.
Every one of us will eat from a Chinese fridge, cook in a Chinese oven, pull down our chinese pants, and sit on a chinese toilet to watch this video.
For me, i think there could be some good here. The Chinese bikes could put downward pressure on the other manufacturers. Bikes could get cheaper AND better because of it.
Would i ride one?
Shit yea. Brand loyalty is a fools errand. Until a brand comes along that genuinely cares about me and my satisfaction, i will buy the best bike i can afford. If its made by China or Tony Stark in a cave means absolutely nothing to me. The ONLY reason i would hesitate is parts availability.
Bring em on baby!
It should mean something to you. If one of the long time big guys mess up and makes a shit vehicle you’d know about it right away, if one of these Chinese brand mess up yeah good luck finding out about it, for example there have been many instances of Chinese EV airbags failing to deploy but a lot of people online seems to think their good. I agree that brand loyalty can be foolish at times but if you look at it differently a brand must have made some good products for people to be loyal to them. And most importantly you only got one life.
@@tinlephuochuu9493Yea, like Boeing jets falling out of the sky.. you sure know about it. Sometimes I am amazed at how close minded you guys are. 😂😂
@@hclau218 what about airbus? If you don’t fly Boeing then you fly airbus not some Chinese manufactured aircraft. Or am I wrong?
@@tinlephuochuu9493 I use a broom and fly with an open mind.
@@hclau218 It’s a free country so you do you I guess. Just try not to crash into anyone house.
Like 80 years ago, I'd buy only Italian motorcycles for the same reasons.
They wont stay cheap forever. If you look at Kia and Hyundai when they first started selling cheap cars here stateside. As soon as they became popular and more mainstream they're now just as expensive as a Honda, Toyota, Nissian, etc.
10 years ago I bought a Chinese Bennelie 200cc motorcycle in Thailand. It looked the part, rode ok but when I started to look a bit deeper it was a nightmare. The rear brake fluid reservoir was tiny and the molding was really bad quality plastic. I removed the seat and unscrewed 2 bolts to remove the tank and both screws stripped...during removal. The wiring and switches were flimsy and the brakes disks had tiny screws holding the calipers to the forks. I started to wonder what material the front and rear wheel axials where made of and decided to sell it. I replaced it with a brand new Yamaha SR400 and the difference in quality was amazing. I vowed never to buy a Chinese vehicle again until 3 weeks ago when I bought a BYD Seal. If the Chinese motorbikes are anything like the quality of my BYD Seal then the western manufactures will have a lot to worry about in the future.
They're come a long way in 10 years. People are in denial
The Chinese and India brands are the only ones brave enough to make motorcycles that people actually want, with specs that people actually asked for. The "other" brands keep making the polar opposite of what the customers wanted, which left a massive hole in the market. Someone had to step up.
Except the Indians actually make decent reliable motorcycles. Chinese machines for some reasons are just trash
Sure all those millions of motorcycles from the USA and Japan were forced onto the buyers. YOu have no idea what you are talking about, go back to your video games.
@@jdsheleg8332he's talking about world markets. Go back to your medication boomer
It’s the capitalist way: advertising tells you what you want.
The customer doesn’t know what they want. When manufacturers make the vehicles people think they want, nobody buys them. What the Chinese bikes deliver on is cheap bikes, and that’s really what people want.
I was looking at the CF Motos. IBEX 800 and the 700CL. Wife wants to ride, so the 700 is out. But, in the end, it will be a Suzuki 800RE, 750 Trans Alp or NC750. Started out in the 70s on a Kawasaki KE125, and road it all over the dirt roads of North Dakota, but never put a huge amount of miles on it in the 4 month riding season. My first significant riding experience was on my CB750K in the early 80s in California. First and only bike I have accumulated 17k miles in one year. Loved that thing, and would buy it again if offered. But, for now I will ride my X300 and 1250 Bandit (not a fan of that).
In 2018 I helped 3 friends each set up Hawk 250s. I think they use a knock off honda 230 motor, not sure. There were a few parts on the bikes that were a little bit too extremely cheap for my taste. The swingarm, chain, kicker, for example. Needed to add adjustment screws to the carb to get them to run. But shit, they were $1000, shipped to your house. Street legal dual sports. Lights, e start. Comparable to 00's DRs or KLRs.
Triumph isn't partnered with any Chinese motorcycle manufacturers 🤔
And by the way, chinese bikes are already in WSBK and MotoGP. In WSBK there's Kove in SS300 class and in MotoGP CFMoto has teams in Moto3 and Moto2. In Moto3 their bike is namely a KTM and in Moto2, because of the rules, they're runnin Kalex chassis with Triumph engine. But anyways, chinese are in motorcycle racing ;)
Well do ne video, I'm sure they will figure the market out.
Kove just achieved their first podium too. That's impressive given how little time they have been in the industry.
Even the good chinese bikes are not even as reliable as a KTM. Japan makes the best most reliable bikes period. Italy builds the sexy bikes and Germans squeeze the power out. Americans make the noisey slow heavy bikes from the 1940s in 2024. China makes cheap crap that falls apart quickly and has no aftermarket or dealership support.
Sorry, but because of the slimey ways in which China operates, I would NEVER by a Chinese motorcycle !!
Editing issue around 8 minutes, black screen?
Probably a copyright issue due to the video being used
Racing; they need to race. There everyone can see what they're made of. With the stopwatch, and/or lasting through a Suzuka endurance race, here is where we could see real progress.
They are in moto3, eventually they will move up
Why? because they must follow the Western way or be left behind? Just like EVs? 😂😂😂
@@hclau218i know that CFMOTO and Kove have their racing teams
Here in England if you want a 125 and are at all restricted by budget you have to go Chinese. Chinese bikes absolute dominate the market. Long story short I bought a brand new AJS Tempest roadster last year and I'm perfectly happy with it. It's got a Yamaha YBR engine so it's nice and smooth with good torque. The gearbox is a bit clunky, the suspension is a bit harsh but overall riding it has been a positive experience. It's a motorcycle and therefore it scratches that itch.
I took the plunge and bought a 2024 KTM 790 Adventure built by CFMoto. So far so good. I wanted to buy a Suzuki VStrom 800DE or Honda Transalp except neither bike had everything I wanted. Kawasaki refuses to make a mid powered Adventure motorcycle. I wasn’t interested in the more dirt oriented Yamaha Tenere. Japanese manufacturers have a history of telling consumers what they need vice addressing what consumers want. The KTM 790 Adventure had tubeless tires, a large fuel tank, cruise control, great electronics for safety, and a more powerful engine. Reviewers often address MSRP differences rather than what consumers actually pay, and the KTM was by far the best value. The way I see it the major risk I took is potential reliability issues. To me it was worth it. I have zero concerns about the bike being made in China. It is in CFMoto’s interest to build a great bike for KTM as they improve their own market share for their own brand of motorcycles.
Apparently you will very soon have camshaft problems with that engine.
KTM 790 and 890 engine , however the CF Moto variant of that engine does not have issue, only the KTM variant.
Good luck
And what bearings they use? You pay for whar you get (mostly)....
Recently chinese motorcycle companies tried their best to enter Indian market with different manufacturers like Benelli, CF moto, Zontes, Moto morrini etc. but they never got any traction in market and kinda they failed
Good. They are overpriced unreliable POS.
Because India has their own reliable and trusted domestic brands like Bajaj, Hero, Royal Enfield and TVS
I learned on Chinese bikes. Japanese bikes from the 60’s and 70’s were designed and manufactured well. Make it’s fun to work on them
China undercuts competing manufacturers, wipes them out and Jack's up the prices.
No they don't
@@danb.3397 Yes they do.
That what they did with the glass art color rod market
Because no one else could ever start up a business after right? Once the prices go up that’s it!!!!
@@HahaDamn Speaking as someone once involved in the shoe industry in the UK once they are gone there gone.Lack of skill set machinery manufacturers etc etc no UK worker would work in the sweatshop conditions Chinese workers endure leading to lower manufacturing retail price differential.
China can keep their machines. Ive seen enough to know better.
Bart, I love your work. These videos keep getting better and better! One thing that is hard to imagine, is that until the late 1960s, "Japanese" was synonymous with "cheap junk". Honda didn't help that with pressed steel frames and so-so fit and finish on their bikes. It didn't take long for people to notice that they were super reliable and fast.
Hello What about Indian Motorcycle Industry. Which is smashing all industries including the Chinese.
No such thing
@user-bo2uu1yp1d It is see the example of African bike market.
@@amanjaya-s9v😂 okay buddy
You should look Africa how 4 indian companies killed the monopoly of such Chinese companies@@amanjaya-s9v
Wrong
I was at a chinese factory looking at their R&D. They had taken apart a Suzuki 600cc engine and were taking measurements of every single part and measuring tolerances. The issue is the quality of their material, the alloys used, the mixing etc. I mean they had machines for everything but the quality of the alloy just isn't exactly there. Plus the fact that almost all their bikes are copies of Japanese products with garish colour schemes which will then be muted anyway for the export markets. The plastic they use was recycled - plyable sort of and subject to heat, it went rather brittle. They had no provinance certificates for any of the metals used. Apparently the supplier is a friend of the factory owner and that is about it.
In Dubai there is a Chinese brand that's been around for a couple of years. It's called Sharmax. The range of the motorcycles and quad bikes and Dune Buggies is just staggering. The bikes range from street, to cruiser, dirt, Enduro, Cafe, and everything else in between. The bikes are gorgeous, and the prices are very affordable. Many come with triple disk, upside downs, hand guards, dual exhaust, engine guards, digital dash, LED lights, etc.
I ride a Burgman 650 which I absolutely love. But when the time comes to change bikes, I will most likely be riding a Sharmax. Look it up
Lookup "Tofu Dreg" buildings in China - buildings, bridges, floors collapsing , even hi-speed (Shinkansen-copy) train crashes... yeah, Chinese quality , yeah . LOL ;)
Sounds like the US infrastructure, though only with low speed train crashes.
I collaborated with one of the big 3 as a designer and that "make similar things but cheaper" is really ingrained into their mindset. They buy 2-3 units of every motorcycle on the market (I saw a Hayabusa in one of the lesser known brands) and what they usually did was use that as a base for making new designs, instead of the typical design process of packaging, making prototypes, etc. While they're not incapable of making totally ground up vehicles, their focus seems to be just making as much shit as possible right now, with huge amd time cost constraints as the market in china is also not very large due to the Chinese domestic policies makes motorcycles as transportation extremely unfavorable (cities like shenzhen treat all motorcycles as bicycles, forcing them to use the pavement and not being able to go on roads), with mopeds and ebikes having huge incentives and hence manufacturers focusing on that. Their RnD teams while plentiful and capable, lack depth as they are mostly confined to knowledge within their own market, which stunts them to grow and expand globally as the Japanese do. In many ways, the products lack "soul" or "identity" as they are still copying, but just doing it in a more tidy way. Only time will tell if these behemoths with large cash and factories will have a mindset shift.
On the brighter side, I would say that CF Moto would be the only company not doing this.
we used to laugh at Japanese vehicles..... we're not laughing anymore
don't compare the 2, japan hasn't been degenerated by 70 years of communism. you wouldn't compare german cars with french ones would you?
@@Emily-ou6lqyeah, they got blessed with that extinction ball an american enslavement mentality
@@Emily-ou6lq Chinese are building engines for some well regarded and reliable bmw motorcycles, so yes, they're getting there
@@czarekp3552 Aaah yeh, the beijing motor werke, right?
@@Emily-ou6lq that's the one
U nowhere mentioned India manufactures they are leading in sales in world and has high quality like royal Enfield, tvs has lager share in Italy company baje
Bajaj has a lager share in KTM India bikes are selling high quality and lager scales in India and global they are gaining popularity in Africa and uk royal Enfield and Bajaj and TVs are selling.
I don't care if they make good quality bikes. I don't care if they make crappy bikes. I'm just never buying ChiCom stuff as long as there's ANY other alternative.
When there's no alternative anymore I'll become a pedestrian
Completely agree
Exactly what guys said about Japanese "riceburners" in the early 1960s. 😅
@@browngreen933 True!!!
You're going to find it very hard to use anything that wasn't made in China. Just for curiosity sake, what device did you use to type your comment?
In the phillipines small chinese bikes are cheapy metal dont last,rust n break.my kawasaki 150 is 11yrs old,only change oil n spark plug.i ride it everyday.
Well, I grew up on my Dad’s German made Suicide stick shift motorcycle. I had many Japanese, American, Italian even Spanish motorcycles for many years. I could never afford Harley. I love the design the sound but, way too expensive. So now I’m a 69 year old motorcycle rider. On 2022 bought a Triumph 1200 Bonneville Speedmaster. Still riding enjoying my motorcycle. May be I’ll be getting a Harley on my next life. Ride Safely.
CFMOTO 800NK is a great bike AND it has cruise control, huge fucking win right there haha.
The same thing was said about Hyosung and South Korea
Then EVERYONE who bought one was pissed 1 month later and it rained the first time....and all the fasteners rusted and stained parts of the bikes.
As someone who lives in Vietnam, Chinese motorcycles are here and yes they do sell. However, they are seen as disposable even with the fake MV Agusta 125cc and Benelli models. Honda is at the top followed by the rest of the Japanese brands. Getting parts and repairs are seen and are too troublesome. If you want a disposable motorcycle....then China is the way to go.
I think this video is western focused so he's talking about Benelli and Cfmoto rather than the Chinese scooter and small displacement bike makers. Even the cheap Hondas here in Vietnam are pretty crap to be honest
Lifan and vitacci is interchangeable with Honda parts
When we see dealerships locally so that we can easily get replacement parts and/or maintenance items, more people will feel more confident buying a Chinese bike, but without service/parts availability, there's no point.
Chinese?! Maybe not!! They're still got a long way to reach quality standards.
Indian?! Yes!! Recent Indian bike giants are very reliable and are reaching those Japanese standards at a rapid rate!!
Cuz our mostly top brands legally partnered with Japanese brands inside India Learn the Japanese way and now are independent companies after demerger after govt. Did good amount of reforms now we have tons of bike companies and companies like royal Enfield there owner is hard core bike lover ! And companies like bajaj literally have so so big R and d centers and Own brands like KTM ! And have tons of experience
Chinese motorcycle manufacturers are going electric en masse as we speak and their European and/or Japanese counterparts have noticed the trend for sure, but not as willing as their Chinese rivals are to take the deep dive just yet.
Chinese equipment is sketchy. Same with Austrian KTM. Japanese MC's are the best. Never a mid air failure from my Hondas. Tens of thousands of jumps and a few k offroad.
If you want an idea of the build quality, just look at Chinese scooters 🤣
The *Frame welds alone* should make you run in horror.
Excellent video just laying down the facts. Not appearing biased in either direction. Thanks!
It's good to see someone not just try and run the old "Made in China" line for once. One thing that happens as you continue to foster a large industrial sector for things is that the people who enter that workforce to make cheap copy cats actually become skilled at the trade in general. These companies that start out just copying other people working designs end up having a massive leg up as their workforces get to skip the step of initial R&D and I think that within a generation (say 20-30 years) the people who are designing the cheap stuff today will be leagues ahead of the companies that are getting their workforces for shareholder profit.
If you have an economic policy that actually values production over finance (even if that production starts out as cheap copycats), you're gonna see massive growth as the people working in these industries age and add their knowledge to the pool of knowledge that they initially drew from.
As we speak, CFMOTO is already competing in Moto3, MotoGP's lower tier competition and they are doing great with Alonso. They are not just participating for the sake of it, but are genuine title contenders as they just won COTA 24. I think it's only a matter of time until they get their tech fine tuned enough to move to MotoGP. With the absolute abysmal state of japanese manufacturers at MotoGP such as Honda and Yamaha, I think it won't be a tall ask.
Lastly, I don't think that the implied insinuation that CFMOTO has to compete in MotoGP just to gain respect from the masses is well-founded either. Mind you, suzuki have been pulling out of the competition for years now but I don't hear anyone of you complaining about it. Also, we can all agree that a brand like Royal Enfield is a well-established brand as we speak, yet I am yet to find any world-class competition or any prizes that they won to get the consumer trust that they enjoy now.
I don’t understand the Chinese obsession with copying and “cheating.” It goes against every single cell in my Midwestern American soul.
I saw it on a university campus for 9 years, and I see it in their products. Cheating and cutting corners is cultural in China, even when they are studying in America. And I can’t bring myself to purchase a motorcycle with that backbone.
What do you mean? You americans have an even bigger obsession with "cheating".
They're not American or Midwestern or, apparently, taught ethics.
The US industrialised by copying and “cheating” European and British devices and inventions.
Take BMW motorcycles. First front suspension, a copy of the Indian fork, next a telescopic fork, mainly designed by them. The Earles fork, licensed from Ernie Earles. The Telelever, copied from Saxo-Motodd after the patent expired. Duolever, copied from the Hossack, after the patent expired.
The post-war Japanese motorcycle industry had hundreds of bikes directly copied from British and European designs. BMW, Sunbeam, Ariel, Victoria etc. Kawasaki bought Meguro who were making a copy of the BSA A-10. Suzuki and Yamaha both made copies of the DKW RT 125, as did H-D, BSA, MMZ and WFM.
Many of the Chinese "copies" are actually made under licence or developed from licensed products. Many years ago, Suzuki licensed the GN250 to China, and one company developed a very cheap model by replacing the more expensive four stroke engine with a cheaper two stroke engine. It was popular because it was so much cheaper, and more powerful.
The current Ural is derived from a licensed copy of a BMW motorcycle. Licensing is a method of getting needed technology without "cheating". China bought the Zündapp company in order to get casting technology for wheels.
I rode a Chinese Honda trial bike copy in VIETNAM FOR A MONTH biggest piece of rubbish I have ever riden very uncomfortable under powered for a 250cc 80kph flat out and braking what brakes it just kept going.. 😢
Well, china and INDIANS, my most anticipated bikes right now the new Himalayan 450, and the new ktm390 adv are built there, china, well, as long as they don't do some "Russian type shit" and invade Taiwan or any other country its fine, but ill keep an eye on that.
I remember reading about production issues with Vitpilens and Svartpilens when Husqvarna shifted from Austrian to Indian plants. They got it figured out eventually but I really think that's still always something to consider. Not to say that Indians don't do their work properly but the additional shipping and logistical complications that could arise will always make me feel a bit more uneasy than domestic
@@TragicAykBro that's how capitalism work.
Chinese manufacturers lost their reputation, in my 40 years of keeping Japanese, German, and British brands.
Old days till now other brands focus on quality and reliability, in case of Chinese manufacturers they focus money only.
Making replica will not make you reliable, they have compromised quality, I don’t think so they will compete market.
Yah in Asia some part they can because people buying power is very low but not west.
Motorcycle is not just two weals, it’s your companion best friend I think on this way, so Chinese won’t fit in my book anywhere.
Thanks
I try to avoid supporting the CCP in any way.
[EDIT] There will eventually be a China absent the CCP.
free market is good until they beat me in sales.

@@josefernandobenitezmondrag6684 free market, like the one in China ?
nothing about China is free market. They steal designs and use slave labor. Their goal is to undermine the industry of Western countries, and we are struggling to recognize it.
@@josefernandobenitezmondrag6684 open your eyes. There's nothing free about China. It's a dictatorship.
Idiotic response. Simply anti-chinese fanatical hatred. 55I bet you feel the same about russians.
European and Japanese makers are making ever more powerful and expensive machines yet public road speed limits are getting slower, and fuel is getting more and more expensive. Seems like madness to me. Chinese manufacturers excel at making modest, economical motorcycles and for that reason I think that trumps whether their models are "original" or not. In a short period of time premium and powerful machines will be seen for what they are: impractical motorcycles made for a diminishing market. Already Enfield and even Triumph are beginning to realise there is a growing market for sensible, modestly powered motorcycles. The days of British, Italian and Japanese super-fast, over-weight, expensive bikes are numbered.
Furthermore, most European households have microwaves, TVs, computers, gadgets, and a huge range of other products all made in China. I cannot see how Chinese Motorcycles will be any different. They are catching up fast on the design and reliability front and will quite soon put European manufacturers out of business unless they start making affordable and realistically sensible machines instead of ever more ridiculously unnecessary over-powered motorcycles full of pointless riding modes.
Just bought a Zontes GK350. Still getting used to the different feel of a big single when I used to have twins or fours, but it is clearly a quality product, and way more up to date in the tech than anything else I have ridden
I have a 2000 Fireblade. Bought a Zontes 125 as a cost saver. I was pleasantly surprised with the decent quality for the low price. 8 years later, although there are signs of cosmetic wear and tear, it still rides well. I am considering buying a 250.
I wouldn't purchase any Tofu Dredge items from China if you paid me to. I try to purchase US products if I can. But something like a vehicle, appliance or piece of equipment etc. I'm purchasing anything but Chinese.
If you watch any of the shows any Chinese EV has a very high chance of exploding or catching on fire. I've seen the Chinese people themselves checking to see the quality of their BVD vehicle parts and having the parts bend or break with minimal force. Yea, I'll pass on anything of substantial cost from China...
OK, let's forget for a moment the Chinese political & human-right issues. Sure, the Chinese brands are cheaper, but not compared to excellent secondhand regular brands. Also, dealers are difficult to find. Long-term quality & spare-part availability is unknown. Overall styling is a mix between bland and ugly. In short: I don't really see a good reason to buy a Chinese bike instead of a European or Japanese or Indian (RE) motorcycle.
Why get a 20 year old worn out Japanese bike when you can get a brand new Chinese one? Spare parts are easily available from the internet too
@@pm7521 Because you can get a 3-year old Japanese bike with 5000 km for the price of a new Chinese bike. But OK, you have a point regarding the spare part availability on internet.
Fair but the same mentality applies to buying used vs new in general, for the average person who doesn't keep up with motorcycle discourse or news going to a dealership for a new bike the cheaper and more featured packed option definitely has a strong alure in the showroom, especially if brand recognition or loyalty ain't a factor (ie newer riders). For someone choosing to buy new they definitely make a good argument.
@@jala6707 Where? definitely not local to me, where most 3 year old low mileage used bikes are within a few hundred of new MSRP, which is almost double the Chinese bike's price given similar engine size/etc.
Actually CF Moto isnt just partners with KTM, when KTM had to fire some of her personnel back in the start of the crisis CF Moto offered them the positions as an effort to gain acceptance from KTM.
Some of the former KTM personnel are in the Bajaj Brand on which CF Moto has Stacks!
Plus CF moto makes every KTM up to 690cc.
China's industrial philosophy has always been price point at the expense of quality. They CAN build quality (just look at the iPhone), they just don't want to. Once China starts building quality products, we should all be very afraid.
they build plenty of quality. cfmoto, lenovo pcs, dji drones and cameras, their electric cars are qualitatively on par or better than tesla, their own phones are great, etc. it's more that people want the lowest prices. but you can't expect quality and the lowest prices.
They didnt design the iPhone. Their 9 year old employees assemble em.
@@tedcity5861you know nothing john snow......
And don't forget the huge manufacturer BYD and also the new Xiaomi SU7 which will be another new game changer for Tesla competition
The Chinese will build what the middle man wants. Want quality, pay for it. Middle men like Walmart want cheap, so they get cheap and nasty. Chinese motorcycle manufacturers that set-up their own distributors, or only employ existing quality distributors, will have good products, and will insist on quality dealers. Other companies don't understand this and only think about sales volume and profit margins.
You won't catch me dead on a Chinese motorcycle.
My first bike was a 150 cc crappy Chinese bike (Loncin)... Excellent first bike... Brand new was $1,000 USD. They do have quality issues, specially the plastics and electric components.. The thing is that spare parts are crazy cheap... The sound is horrible, is like driving a blender with wheels, but they are perfect to start your journey into the motorcycle world... Very easy to learn how to maintain and repair. And most importantly... they are slow and with crappy brakes... which is very important as a new rider helps u develop good breaking habits, and doesn't allow u to go too fast which makes it less likely for a noob rider to have an accident... They do suck once u gained some experience... And u do have to look for a better option... But really good first bikes...
Where do you think your phone is made, boomer?
@@chrispekel5709 only the phone?
@@chrispekel5709 Talking about bikes, virgin.
@fgnoyola I started with a used Ninja 250 and rode it for about 65k miles before I got a faster bike.
Best motorcycle ever made.
Japan and China are polar opposites in views and attitudes and pride in craftsmanship. Japan has so many little bespoke shops that make handmade shoes and watches, etc. China is about quantity, and gaudiness, and using crap Chinesium is not an issue.
Politics aside, the new CFMoto bikes are actually pretty great. I’ve had a chance to ride many of them. Their ATVs are also excellent in my experience.
One thing is different between the Japanese back in the day, and the Chinese now, every purchase you make is funding the CCP, and they don't like us very much. I try to limit my purchase of goods from China, not because of quality issues, but political. As for copying the technology of other brands, it's a common practice across the board in China. I consider this theft, do we really want to support theft by buying the cheap knockoff?
I bought a Raven 250 a couple weeks ago for less than a weekend bender would. It's honestly a blast.
Chinese motorcycle companies have spent most of their existence copying the designs and engines of small and medium-displacement bikes from Japanese manufacturers (Lifan mentioned in your video for example, very notorious in my country for poor quality knock-offs of Honda Shadow and Honda Rebel). So it is no surprise to see them coming up with something that is a distant relative of other companies' famous models with a 'competitive' price. In the end, from my perspective, you get what you paid for.