Range Rover P38 # 078 - Fuel Tank Pump and Sending Unit
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2019
- For at least a year I've had intermittent hard starting issues, especially when the fuel tank was 1/4 or less full. When I now came home after a months vacation where the car was parked in my garage (with 3/4 tank) and not used it would crank but not start.
Trying to jump relay 12 to force the tank pump to run didn't result in any fuel arriving at the injection pump, so I was pretty confident it was the in-tank fuel pump and sending unit (fuel gauge sensor).
Since the car was parked very close to one of my lift posts, and because I live in a really rust-prone area where the roads are salted I decided against dropping the fuel tank to gain access to the fuel sending unit. Also I'd have to drain the tank which was around 60-70% full. It would also require removing the rear right fender lining to remove the fuel filler neck assembly. Again, this would also probably be very rusted and I'd most likely break some, if not all, of the fasteners like with the fuel tank.
I took an alternate route which I've actually read about a few years ago. So I Googled up the procedure:
www.land-rover-blog.co.uk/how...
www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rove...
The procedure is to cut a hole in the floor under the rear right seat bench to gain access to the sender unit from the trunk. This is a fairly straight forward procedure that I slightly modified from the original posters above. I decided to cut the hole a bit larger towards the right of the car to better gain access to the filler neck breather hose.
TAKE GOOD CARE NOT TO CUT WIRES OR HOSES when you cut the hole. Only cut just through the floor steel.
- Cut the carpet 14 cm (5.5") from the inside of the right side and left side of the seat bracket.
- Cut the carpet about 28 cm (11") from the front of the seat toward the trunk.
- Cut the floor panel about 20 cm (7 7/8 ") from the front of the seat towards the trunk.
- Cut the floor panel about 3 cm (1 5/32 ") inside the left cut on the carpet on both sides so that you include two "ridges" of the floor pan.
Leave the front of the floor un-cut and bend the floor panel up, and then back down once done.
Remember to apply anti-rust coating and seal the panel back in place to avoid leaks. See: • Range Rover P38 # 082 ...
I decided to use a dremel-like cutter / saw (oscillating multi-tool) to avoid sparks from an angle grinder. Also the steel isn't too thick so it doesn't take too long to cut the hole.
Once in there I noticed a lot of rust on the pipe connectors, which broke off of the sending unit once I tried to loosen them. This resulted in me having to fabricate my own fitting that would fit over the fuel sending unit outputs and over the original plastic lines going to the engine bay.
You'll just barely make them fit over the lines and make sure you just cut enough off of the original plastic lines to keep as much of them as you can. I cut about 3/4" off which is just where the metal fitting inside the plastic line ends.
Using 7.5 x 13mm fuel line which fit snuggly and nice over the sending unit pipes and the black plastic lines after reinforcing the plastic lines with pieces of plastic tubing to avoid the plastic lines collapsing once I tighten down the hose clamps.
I'll replace the temporary spliced fuel line with fuel hose going under the car and splicing into the plastic line under the car for better access for future maintenance. When I do that I'll anti-rust coat and seal the cut floor access lid in place.
You'll want at least these parts:
ESR1111 - DIESEL fuel sending unit and pump
STC4344 - GAS fuel sending unit and pump
NTC5859 - Sending unit gasket to fuel tank
I strongly recommend the PM353 (or Britpart DA1209) tool from Paddock (www.paddockspares.com) to loosen and fasten the lock ring (NTC6872) that holds the fuel sending unit and gasket in place. The tool takes a standard 1/2" ratchet with an extension.
If you're lucky you can reuse the plastic line connectors with a pair of:
NRC9770 - Fuel line nut (x2)
NRC9771 - Fuel line olive (x2)
Relay 12 (fuel pump relay) is powered by relay 19 via fuse 39 (20A) in the engine bay. Relay is energized in three ways:
- When glow plug # 6 is energized
- When the alternator is charging (+D voltage present)
- When the starter motor is active
Schematics:
drive.google.com/open?id=1Ltj...
This means the pump runs continuously while the is running. The pump shares a common ground with among other things the fuel gauge and all relays in the fuse box. If the fuel gauge works, you know grounding is ok.
You can reach me at gamuso@gmail.com if you want to get in touch with me.
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Thanks for watching, and I hope you found this video interesting. - Авто та транспорт
Gracias por publicar este video con lujo de detalles, hice el trabajo y quedó perfecto, lo que me permitirá el acceso al tanque de gasolina sin ninguna dificultad.
Thanks - this was really useful. I've got the same problem, i.e hard starting after days of no use. When I disconnected the fuel line and then put the ignition on - the fuel flow was no flow at all, just dripping ( som pessestrålen hos en prostatasjuk 60-åring). I knew then that there was an issue with the fuel pump in tank. Before I decided to cut in the panel (as I've done with Jaguar and Saab 9-3) I looked after some DIY just to be sure - and then this site came to me. Thumbs up!
Great video. i'll be doing this at the weekend!
Great on the electrical side, But the worst thing you can do cutting the body.
I have a 1995 P38 and the only thing that was an issue was the hose from the filler neck to the tank, so I cut it.
It was already perished so a replacement would be necessary anyway.
I did not have a ramp so was a little more difficult but still got it out.
It was lucky that I removed the tank as the steel fuel pipes were all corroded.
Great channel and great advice on this pump change very helpful. Thank you.
Glad it can be of help. Thanks for watching, Lukas.
Taking the tank out on the driveway is really easy so I’m not cutting a hole in the floor. I don’t want exhaust fumes / noise or any moisture in the back. Tank is simple to disconnect, maybe that’s why they didn’t put a flap in. Once the tank is out you also get loads of room to clean around the rear suspension etc so well worth doing and if you have rear shocks to replace at the same time this is also much easier.
I did the same job on my 98 when the pump died. Luçky I was close to home when the car refused to go faster than 20 kph. Just made it into the driveway. On my 2000 I am going to drop the tank and put in a new pump as part of preventive maintenance as these pumps seem to fail suddenly without much warning.
Good video, mine came with the floor cut. It also a good idea to install a non return valve (NRV) between the bulkhead and fuel filter in the engine bay. If your intank pump fails you won't notice with an NRV installed and I no longer get hard starting at all. Keep up the videos! Tak!
Good tip, and along with Alberto's fuel pressure install tip both are great things to consider. Thanks for watching!
tanks
That's super good job 👍
Good Job👍
Thanks for watching!
Many thanks, i'll test all connexions
Good luck, hope you figure it out!
Just a tip spray the sender unit outlets with white grease they will last longer!
thank you
Great video. Pretty sure I'll use the same precedure with mine. I've been getting the P0453 or P0455 code, whichever one from the fuel pump sensor. Did you weld that flap back down once you changed out the hoses or did you do something else? Thanks
Thanks this is very helpful!!
Thanks for watching!
Hi Thanks for the great video! I have a couple of questions:
1. I cannot switch off my P38 (2001) engine when I turn off the ignition key, any suggestions?
2. I cannot open the fuel intake flap, probably because the engine keeps going, any suggestions how I can fix it. I tried doing the manual release but the string is broken off?
Many thanks
Darius
Super!!!Good Job!!!
Thank you, and thanks for watching.
Maybe I will Use a very sharp chisel and a hummer instead using the grinder to cut the metal, for fire safe...in case it's leaking gas, GREAT HELPFUL VIDEO, THANKS!
Mantab Pakdhe, jadi lebih mudah ganti fuel pump.
Thanks for watching!
Very informative, Thank you very much. Will you please show how you seal up the metalflap.
Of course, that'll be included in an upcoming video once I finish the replacement of the fuel lines from the tank. Thanks for watching!
Very nice. I am in the middle of this process right now. Your video is very helpful. I also will install a pressure gauge in the fuel line in the engine bay to monitor the pressure. Another friend of mine had an issue where the Pump was running but not sending fuel to the filter.
Thanks Alberto, a great tip. I might install a center console / dash fuel pressure gauge now that you mentioned it along with a non-return valve like Hop suggested too. Thanks for watching!
@@WorkOnP38 I have a -1bar up to 2bar gauge and I will put it in the fuel line that passes side of the water tank in engine bay. I'm gessing: if it shows vaccumm = Pump not working and injection Pump is sucking fuel from tank. If shows positive pressure = fuel Pump ok.
Sounds like you have a good plan there. Good tip on the vacuum bit too. The pressure should be between 2 - 2.5 bar if I recall for the diesels, and 2.2 - 2.6 (before 99) and around 3.5 (99 later) gas engines. Thanks for the tips and for watching!
@@WorkOnP38 hello. I have fitted a new fuel Pump and the pressure gauge in the engine bay. How can I send pictures to you? It works fine. now I can see that fuel pump is really sending fuel to the filter. The bubbles in the fuel pipe after the filter are also gone. Car runs fine above 3000revs also. Intank fuel Pump was the issue and not the injection Pump like the shop was "selling" me!
@@P38Upgrades that's great news! Glad you fixed it. You can email me at gamuso@gmail.com Congrats on fixing the issue and saving a lot of money too!
Currently doing this job at the moment what size was the re-enforcement piece that you used?
Changed the hose at the bottom of the filler to the tank last weekend, I was thinking it would easy enough, it was a pain.
I'll be using this method if needed in the future for access to the pump.
Well would you believe it my lift pump had failed, changed it this morning, this video was very helpful,
It had been replaced previously by others, luckily the fuel pipe connectors were in good condition.
It's always those rusted areas and parts that make a job a pain. Thanks for watching and contributing!
Mine 2001 p38 eventually stalls in a stop sign, light, no power at all, cat even turn on the emergency lights on
It will turn back on, switching the two engine relays, any ideas, thanks in advance!
Thankyou for the amazing videos. I have a problem with my boschpump in the diagnostic it says Fuel quantity actuator. I dont know whta that is , can you help me out pls.
Bonjour, je regarde votre vidéo sur le remplacement de la pompe a fuel. Je dois changer ma pompe à essence sur mon R.R p38 4.6 v8. La différence par rapport à votre véhicule, c'est que le mien est un conduite à gauche... et que les points de fixation des sièges arrières ne sont pas au même endroit que sur votre véhicule 🙄... l emplacement de la pompe est il inversé comme les fixations? Merci pour tous vos tuttos ils m'ont déjà bien servi, et me serviront encore je pense...
Nice day Sir please then please ask you for a consultation immediately if you allow I have a Range Rover p 38 4,0L I have a problem with the power supply of the gasoline pump does not work due to a power outage knowing that all the fuses are new and the reels are also new please help
it really sucks you have to cut the floor to do this job... thank you for this detailed video.
Hello Brian. Cutting was my own choice. The correct procedure is to drop the fuel tank. But due to rust I went the cutting route. Thanks for watching!
More of an oversight by land rover, the classic RR has access to the sender unit via a cut out in the boot floor, I did mine this way, you wouldn't know it was there once you refit the carpet, plus side its a damn site easier to do next time round.
How did you close the hole after your repair?
Where did you get the workshop manual, is it RAVE?
Hi there. The RAVE is a Land Rover publiciated collection of workshop manuals, electrical wiring and troubleshooting manual, recalls / techincal service bulletins. All in Adobe PDF format. It covers all Land Rover vehicles. I found it a bit clunky and excessive since I just need the P38 files. So I just extracted the relevant documents for easy viewing and access on any device. You can get the workshop manual here: drive.google.com/open?id=1GxAowv9_u3UjfT0NCqb_GCb5wYeV2lja and the electrical manual here: drive.google.com/open?id=1DE1zkP5G42BWkh8QdGEIK4wlkSkLpqNC Hope you find them usefull. You can easily search in these documents to locate various topics. There's also a good index of content. Thanks for watching!
Great videos. All very helpfull. Too bad P38 does not have the hatch like the classic or the discovery.
BTW, does anyone knows how to unlatched the rear cargo door on a p38? my actuator is not working and the cargo door is closed. Anyone? Thanks
Nice work. The previous owner of my gas p38 replaced the fuel pump. But somehow in doing so the fuel system no longer stays primed. It’s a little annoying because I have to leave the key in the on position for about 5 seconds before starting.
Sounds like you have a leak in your feed line from the tank to the engine letting air in so the gas can return to the tank while parked. Gas leaks can be tricky to locate as it evaporates quickly. Hope you figure it out. Thanks for watching!
Work On P38 maybe but I’d think that I would also be leaking when the pump runs right? But it doesn’t
I would check to see if there is a pressure regulator in the system. If present the non-return valve may be leaking and you loose pressure. No start unti! the pump builds up pressure.
Gordon Wedman is that on the fuel rail?
@@Mrcaffinebean I think so but not certain. I had the same problem with my 98 and was going to investigate but sold it. My procedure was to get in car, turn key to position 1 and then put seatbelt on. By the time that was done the car would start right up. My 2000 starts immediately.
What size pipe did you use?
Hi like you videos have you got one on p38 gearbox removal
Think you very much for good informations. I have my fuel gauge to zéro point. CAN you help me. Think you
Hi Michel. Unless the gauge in the cluster is bad you have either a bad sending unit in the tank, or a wiring issue between the tank and the instrument cluster. Well actually the fuel level signal goes to the BeCM unit under the right side front seat, and the BeCM tells the cluster how much fuel there is in the tank. I'd check the ground wire going to the fuel tank unit (black wire), then trace and check the green/black wire from the sender unit to the BeCM, and then the black/pink wire from the BeCM to the instrument cluster. If all of those are ok, then the gauge itself is most likely broken. But I'm guessing either the sending unit, or the ground connection to it. Thanks for watching.
Do you have a hot start fitted?
Hi, I do not in the black, but I do in the green P38. Thanks for watching.
@@WorkOnP38 Hi. Can you feel the difference between both cars? Is it worth it to have the hot start fix?
Hi Alberto. The hot start feature works very well on the green P38. It did have the same hot start issue I had on my black until I put the tuning chip (with hot-start fix) in it lately. The black can crank for 5-7 seconds, while the green starts in under 1 second. But this only occurs if I've driven for 10 minutes or more to get the engine fully warm, and left it parked for 15 minutes or more. You can feel that the green run rougher for 20 seconds (the time the hot-start feature is enabled) since it's getting more fuel. I'll get my black tuning chip upgraded in a couple of months. It's not a big deal, except in winters here it could become an issue when the battery could be low on charge. I might even end up designing my own hot-start thingy if I find time :) I'll of course share that here if I do that. Thanks for watching!
@@WorkOnP38 If you go on Landzone and have a look at the hot start, I was the one that sussed it all out and wrote the symatics for it, and someone copied it (I dont mind that)
@Soney Liston thanks for making such a great contribution to the community. It's great to hear from you here. I'll be sure to credit you if I ever make a video about the hot start feature.
butcher