How Do The Draka Win? : War and the National Mythos (part 3 of 3)

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  • Опубліковано 19 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 102

  • @TheCorrodedMan
    @TheCorrodedMan 9 місяців тому +39

    Seeing an example of a Drakensis years after reading about them is…disconcerting. The books go out of their way to explain all the differences and such, but I don’t think anyone ever imagined Gwen properly; in my head, for example, she was just a tall, fit red head.
    But no; what’s the saying in the book?
    “I’m not human, but my ancestors were, and what they dreamed, I am”

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  9 місяців тому +19

      Working out exactly what a Drakensis looks like is one of the reasons I haven't done a Drakon video yet. But the last sketch attempt was close. The musculature looks kinda weird as described in the book.

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan 9 місяців тому +13

      @@feralhistorian Well you definitely nailed the alien feel of them. Seeing Gwen after reading about her childhood and eventual fate is scary and all, but also satisfying. Like seeing an old friend…or a very, very old enemy.

    • @robertlehnert4148
      @robertlehnert4148 4 місяці тому +5

      The Draka New Breed are the fulfillment of CS Lewis "the Abolition of Man". Since Jack Lewis exists in that universe (Sister Marya refers to him in Under the Yoke)., I wonder how the AoM might have been modified.

    • @murgmaggleramaxis8535
      @murgmaggleramaxis8535 4 місяці тому +3

      ​@@feralhistorian When you put it that way, a female elemental from Battletech mixed with Zero Suit Samus (Who is a really tall girl) sound like a good peg for Gwen.

  • @johnecoapollo7
    @johnecoapollo7 Рік тому +20

    Your descriptions of the Final War reminded me exactly how I felt when listening to those chapters (I have the books on Audible). You understand exactly how hollow the victory feels for Eric. These books get flak for their worldbuilding but Stirling knows how to write (at least when he sticks to anything that is not gratuitous lesbian sex out of nowhere)

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan Рік тому +1

      Touché. Poor old Eric had the world on his shoulders(quite literally later on)

    • @drakashrakenburgproduction5369
      @drakashrakenburgproduction5369 11 місяців тому +3

      @@TheCorrodedMan a burning world now. They one but at what costs. And remember the Americans never were fully defeated. They’re out there colonizing Alpha Centari waiting for the best time to strike

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan 11 місяців тому

      @@drakashrakenburgproduction5369Maybe, but it also means the Draka have time to develop themselves and implement the final society. It was as much of blessing for them as it was a burden

  • @produccionesquino
    @produccionesquino 2 роки тому +27

    It was awesome seeing your take and how you explain the novels, I hope you get more views becouse I really like your channel and the content you create

  • @MM22966
    @MM22966 Місяць тому +6

    One thing that always stuck with me was a bit in the books about an Alliance staff study of the Draka. About how most people just saw them as a caricature of Confederate Southerners on a wider canvas. It made the point that nations grow and change, and what they were like a hundred years ago may be related to but not what they ARE now. That's as true for the real world as it is for the Draka.

  • @The_violet_lord
    @The_violet_lord 2 роки тому +14

    How do you not have more Subscribers. I love your videos 😊 keep up the good work.👍

  • @baalzhamon8491
    @baalzhamon8491 8 місяців тому +23

    One section that really cemented how The Draka view other people were the one where they just took a bunch of people, drove them off, and put them up on pikes. These guys really are next level evil...

    • @MM22966
      @MM22966 Місяць тому +3

      They were classicists in their way. Give them an opportunity to re-enact the Spartans putting down a Helot revolt, or Crassus's ending of the Spartacus Revolt, and they'd take it....

  • @MultiSweeney1
    @MultiSweeney1 Рік тому +17

    Not quite how I pictured Gwendolyn Ingolfsson, but I really like that portrait at 11:05. Human enough to blend in but also just off enough to hint that there is something inhuman behind the mask.

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  Рік тому +14

      Eventually I'm planning to do something on Drakon, complete with a better Gwen portrait. But I need to make time to re-read the book since it's been quite a few years.

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan Рік тому +1

      Just drives home the immorality of the Draka. To everyone else, stuff like Gwen is centuries away and a last ditch option at best.
      To the Draka, it’s a way of life.

  • @jdlessl
    @jdlessl 11 місяців тому +10

    One thing that always bugged me, how does the alternate USA span the entire rest of North America and the Philippines... with only 12 extra states? Like even if there was some consolidation of IRL states (one Dakota, no West Virginia, NM+AZ as Gadsden, Baja part of California, Alaska is folded into the Yukon, etc), I still don't see how any reasonable partitioning of that much territory could be done with just ~15 administrative zones. No way would the entire Caribbean be treated as just one state, for instance.
    There's plenty of fanmade world maps of the Drakaverse, but I've never seen one of the US state borders. Also, what would that flag look like, assuming it kept the same star symbolism as in real life.

  • @Blazbaros
    @Blazbaros 7 місяців тому +7

    I've never heard of this series before. Its absolutely bonkers and I love it, great content!

  • @darrenrenna
    @darrenrenna 8 місяців тому +8

    Love the original artwork! Always thought the Draka story could be a great graphic novel series.

  • @jeffwolcott7815
    @jeffwolcott7815 Рік тому +1

    Thanks for this series. I find it really deep and makes me think about scociety in real life and where we're going with it.

  • @benjaminstorace6699
    @benjaminstorace6699 18 днів тому

    "History is a collection of improbable things that happened." THAT is a quote.

  • @inferno0020
    @inferno0020 Рік тому +5

    because SM Stirling is both the creator and the Archon of the Draka Universe?

  • @elperrodelautumo7511
    @elperrodelautumo7511 7 місяців тому +5

    The Drakans are honest of themselves. Being soldiers for a landlord empire. A true nation with darker foundations.

  • @Emanon...
    @Emanon... 9 місяців тому +2

    Great channel! Brilliant videos!

  • @drakashrakenburgproduction5369

    More Draka videos please

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  Рік тому +3

      I will say that there is something Draka related a few weeks out. And it's not Drakon.

  • @Easy-Eight
    @Easy-Eight Рік тому +17

    You're doing a great job on the Draka series. However, it took me a little too long to see the complete parallel between the Draka and the Spartans. Both were exactly alike: A warrior elite controlling an underclass. That said, what doomed Sparta in the long run was the birth rates. During the 371 BCE Battle of Leuctra, the Spartans were down to less than 1,900 Spartans. " Anyway, my point is I was never quite able to see how S.M. Sterling was able to reconcile the peculiar fact that the more athletic and educated women become then their birthrate falls dramatically. The fictional Draka women were much more physically fit and educated than Spartan women, who were outstanding in Ancient Greece. Now, after the final war, the Draka become non-human and use serfs as wombs. But there would be a three generation period, about 60 years, before artificial methods could replace natural methods.

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  Рік тому +10

      Stirling did include a bit about Draka women using surrogate mothers shortly after the Eurasian War, so he at least gave it some thought. I give him credit for weaving just enough background through the narrative that we can say "alright, I'll go with it"

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan Рік тому +8

      It helped that their was an official law in place stating that all citizen women must bear at least five children for the sake of the states future, so regardless of how they felt about it, they were required by law to do it or risk losing their jobs and maybe even going to prison.

    • @robertlehnert4148
      @robertlehnert4148 8 місяців тому

      Even aside from legal and social pressure for Citizen Women to do their duty for "The Race" (you can bet the Snakes LEARNED from Sparta's decline), even their late 19th century medicine is in advance of our own . A physically fit Draka woman can do her duty, foist the kids on Serf nannies, and be in very little danger of death from childbirth.

  • @HighLordCrypto8951
    @HighLordCrypto8951 21 день тому

    in my explorations of game theory, political and military strategy, after countless simulations I've come to understand that most wars are not won by military might... but by various other factors. We look at war as the defining factor because it's the most dramatic part.

    • @HighLordCrypto8951
      @HighLordCrypto8951 21 день тому

      Economy, morale, internal political or cultural strife, natural disasters, plague etc
      these things bear more weight on war than manpower

  • @isaac3702
    @isaac3702 Рік тому +6

    Not sure if you would be interested, but there is an alternate history story that has the US from 1969 teleported to 1942 of the Draka-verse. It's pretty good and is on pause at the moment while the author works on another story of his. I would be interested in your take of it.
    I mean, who wouldn't be curious how Nixon and company deal with the Domination.

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  Рік тому +10

      I do recall a mention of that and I'd like to check it out. My first thought is the Draka are screwed, but then we should never underestimate the ability of the US government to misread a situation or do exactly the wrong thing.

    • @drakashrakenburgproduction5369
      @drakashrakenburgproduction5369 Рік тому +1

      You got a UA-cam channel lol

    • @cmkosemen
      @cmkosemen Рік тому

      Link pls? :)

    • @Alfredo12
      @Alfredo12 9 місяців тому

      Link?

    • @maryjames8433
      @maryjames8433 8 місяців тому

      Link?

  • @djolds1
    @djolds1 Рік тому +11

    Eric von Shrakenberg was always invested in the victory of the Draka. He loved his people, regardless of their flaws. The Draka had the Stone Dogs virus ready to go about a year ahead of the New America Project's dataplague. Eric wanted fewer Draka losses than Yolande was comfortable with, and so was waiting on wider spread of Stone Dogs. Yolande forced his hand. Credit to Yolande for forcing the suicide of that researcher on the Pathfinder - that death bought the Draka that year.

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan Рік тому +9

      …did you just give _credit_ to the _Draka?_

    • @SOLOcan
      @SOLOcan Місяць тому +1

      @@TheCorrodedMan issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group ISIL. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"

  • @chaosgyro
    @chaosgyro 2 місяці тому +4

    The Golden Age of America was, well, golden, but even though we have gone too far into self loathing I think a correction of our national identity was due. It's important to acknowledge our collective sins, without wallowing in them, so as not to become the Draka.

  • @msmith1890
    @msmith1890 2 роки тому +12

    My main problem with the Draka series was that they some how keep control over China, Russia and the whole middle east. And why did the whole world ignore the Draka's conquests. In the 1900s two world wars were started over a large empire attacking a smaller nation.

    • @Albemarle7
      @Albemarle7 Рік тому

      Imagine if they had what amounts to the Stalin lie machine and the Saudi bribe machine.
      To this hour you can find educated people in Manhattan who will swear Stalin a great glorious leader.
      Meanwhile constant spreading of oil money has corrupted was numbers of Western officials and institutions.
      Imagine how generations of Draka gold payments could corrupt Western political, media and cultural institutions.
      African isolation would help them control all informatiin from the Domination. Journalists could be bribed, bambozzaled or blackmailed into proclaiming the Draka narrative.
      Every journalist who went to Stalin land came back with nothing glowing reports. Some were duped with staged tours or a potemkin paradise. I suspect most were with blackmailed honey traps.
      I see cases of threats ignored in our time line that are just as implausible, but I do not want to start poitical quarrel by bringing them up.

    • @msmith1890
      @msmith1890 Рік тому +5

      @@Albemarle7 Ok good points. But why did no one ever try to stop Drakia before they took over most of Eurasia?

    • @Albemarle7
      @Albemarle7 Рік тому

      Europe's media and political class was bought and paid for. Most people there were too busy with their own lives and prefered a comforting illusion to the fact that another great war was coming their way. This was before television. The masses in Europe cared little about what happened in what we all call the Third World.
      Western missionaries that did go to Domination were bribed or blackmailed. Those that would not play along were "martyred" with native spears or tropical fever. A few that were very coopertive went back to teach in semenaries. Their messsage was; the Draka are civilzed Christians bringing order and c ivilzationto the "Heathen",
      The Draka were seen as Europe's proxy taking up the white man's burden in their place.
      The European journalists that were approved for Dominations coverage were mostly wastrel sons of aristocrat or powerfamilies who were easy to bribe and blackmail. They were allowed to practice every vice to excess, they could gamble away their nights in Cape Town casinoes and never lose. The gold stayed in Domination contolled banks of course.
      When they did return to their powerful families, they were shown the blackmail material, told their banked up fortunes could evaporate, and then threatened physically. They went home to be spys in their own families. The Draka narrative with shear volume and cash drowned out what little real informantion got back to the West.
      Men in power in London, Paris, Berlin ect saw the Draka as the poor cousins a repectible aristocrati lord would get to do his dirty work to keep the money flowing and the palace undisturbed.
      When men in expensive suits that hire minions to do "unpleasant things", they tend to not look to close or question methods used

    • @isaac3702
      @isaac3702 Рік тому

      @@msmith1890 I think war weariness by the Allies and the Snakes managed to bluff their way by threatening to nuke as much of the world as they could if they were threatened

    • @drakashrakenburgproduction5369
      @drakashrakenburgproduction5369 Рік тому +5

      @@msmith1890 I blame the stupid virus

  • @evanschackmann5312
    @evanschackmann5312 6 місяців тому +6

    Read Marching Through Georgia and never read another book by Stirling. Damn his despicable Draka, such vile protagonists. I seethed reading that book, wanted all the main characters dead from almost the first page.

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  6 місяців тому +7

      The Draka are a vile and despicable people. Yet I'm fascinated by the series as a uniquely American dystopia.

    • @evanschackmann5312
      @evanschackmann5312 6 місяців тому +4

      @@feralhistorian About 15 minutes after writing that comment, I had a good laugh at myself. Read that book 30 years ago in college and here I was consumed by moral outrage all over again.
      People who believe themselves so superior to their fellows that they can do anything to them, any cruelty and barbarism justified for their own greed, touches a raw nerve.

    • @drakashrakenburgproduction5369
      @drakashrakenburgproduction5369 6 місяців тому

      @@evanschackmann5312that’s good!

  • @alexnovak2669
    @alexnovak2669 Рік тому +1

    Good video. Love the ending.

  • @JohnJones-je4mn
    @JohnJones-je4mn Рік тому +4

    Now that you've tackled the Draka, do you think you would tackle the Emberverse?

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  Рік тому +2

      Yes. Not sure when yet, but it's in the lineup.

    • @JohnJones-je4mn
      @JohnJones-je4mn Рік тому +3

      @@feralhistorian Sweet thank you. The Draka series is interesting, but the Emberverse is my favorite.

  • @kborak
    @kborak 5 місяців тому +1

    Your videos are awesome man!

  • @jasonthorpe7087
    @jasonthorpe7087 Рік тому +1

    Thanks again I enjoy your take's on great books and movies!

  • @msmith1890
    @msmith1890 5 місяців тому +2

    Do you think that Draka could beat Germany from man in the high castle?

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  5 місяців тому +3

      Assuming it's the mid-1960s Draka from early in Stone Dogs vs the mid-1960s Germany from High Castle, I'd give the Draka the edge. They have less political infighting, tighter control over their population, a vast army of expendable Janissaries to throw into the fight, and they take a longer view. Of course they both have nuclear weapons, so it probably ends with glowing snow either way.
      I know what I'd choose if faced with either everyone being enslaved by the Draka or hitting the atomic reset button on human civilization.

    • @msmith1890
      @msmith1890 5 місяців тому

      @@feralhistorian How would the Empire of Japan react to a German vs Draka war?

  • @Emdee5632
    @Emdee5632 2 дні тому

    I stumbled over this third part, I will also watch parts 1 and 2 just for the sake of the entire review. I love alternate history science fiction but I will NEVER read any the Draka novels. I've read other non-YT sources and I got almost sick at a certain point. Sterling seems to have deliberately created the most dreadful, most horrific alternate timeline as possible. The Draka are unstoppable. Sterling wants them to win. Sterling wants humanity to be enslaved.

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  2 дні тому

      The Draka are a truly vile people. They make for great dystopian fiction (which I'm quite sure was Stirling's intent) but some fans are a little too enamored with them.

  • @lawlessbritainextra9065
    @lawlessbritainextra9065 2 роки тому +2

    Do you know about the strategy game involving the Draka?

  • @B007-r1w
    @B007-r1w 11 днів тому

    I have listened to this whole series and admittedly have not read the books; (mostly because I had never heard of them before coming across this youtube series.) I know it is now about 2 years old, and the chances are slim, but I really would like to know how the hell the Draka managed to keep such a comically large serf population as slaves without any sort of revolt or reforms for nearly a hundred years. It seems rather implausible to me that a slave cast in the billions would simply continue to live in perpetual, hereditary serfdom. Did they just shoot every slave that ever picked up a rock to throw at them?

  • @elbarto6668
    @elbarto6668 Рік тому +2

    Nice

  • @jaegarviking3846
    @jaegarviking3846 2 роки тому +2

    I am from Spain (ironically Barcelona) and i wanted from child read Draka, but don't is in spanish. That is a big problem and if there are a spanish version of Draka in Spanish speaker countries can have interest

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  2 роки тому +2

      No creo es versione de Draka libros en Espanol. (Mis disculpas. Mi Espanol es muy mal)

    • @jaegarviking3846
      @jaegarviking3846 2 роки тому +2

      @@feralhistorian Nope. Don't are spanish version. And don't worry, you spanish its understable.
      Correct version for you phrase: _No creo que haya versiones de libros de Draka en Espanol._
      The spanish grammar is a bitch sometimes

  • @andrewpytko4773
    @andrewpytko4773 Рік тому +8

    The scariest thing about the Draka is, they could realistically win.

    • @Albemarle7
      @Albemarle7 Рік тому +7

      It is dramatically plausible in that their behavior is within the spectrum of what people have done or would do.
      As for economic or politacally pausible, our timeline is not as plausible as we think.
      This would make a killer miniseries.

    • @jbark678
      @jbark678 4 місяці тому +3

      I'd imagine their greatest struggle would be coming into existence for a meaningful amount of time.

    • @TheAngryXenite
      @TheAngryXenite 4 місяці тому +2

      ​@@jbark678Their greatest struggle would be the rapid dash to industrialization that they achieved faster than Britain, France, or the German states despite starting with a significantly less urban population and an entire continent of hostile and numerous natives that said empires could barely control IRL with the backing of entire empires. The Draka essentially cheesed the whole process of going from beneath notice to beyond reprisal.

  • @KayVeeEye
    @KayVeeEye 7 місяців тому +3

    Who's drawing this art?

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  7 місяців тому +3

      Early on it was all me. In this particular video I started using AI (Stable Diffusion running locally) to render elements to speed up the process, with variable results.

    • @KayVeeEye
      @KayVeeEye 7 місяців тому

      @@feralhistorian I'm glad you did it; it's nice to have a visual to go with the books. Do you have pics of the Rhino and the Eagle?

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  7 місяців тому

      @@KayVeeEye I did one of the Rhino awhile back, but I don't like how it came out. I am toying with doing a very hardware-oriented Eurasian War video at some point though, so I'll get it right eventually.

  • @Monkechnology
    @Monkechnology 9 місяців тому +3

    Drakabros, we keep winning

  • @kylevidauri4869
    @kylevidauri4869 4 місяці тому +2

    Yknow I see paralleles with our struggles with the Islamic world, we keep acting like the radicals and jihadists are some kind of anathema of "moderate" islam but the reality is the two ate part of a functioning spectrum of ideology where the moderates generally become radicalized at the slightest provocation because they, like the Draka, have a distinct, unified, totalizing worldview when it comes to the kaffir.

  • @stolman2197
    @stolman2197 Рік тому +3

    I honestly didn't like the alliance when I read the books

    • @feralhistorian
      @feralhistorian  Рік тому +7

      It's dystopian all around. The Alliance aren't really "good guys" so much as "less bad guys."

    • @TheCorrodedMan
      @TheCorrodedMan 10 місяців тому

      @@feralhistorianIt’s a bit like choosing between the Imperium and the Tyranids; sure the Imperium is repressive, hateful, and xenophobic, but the the Tyranids are the _fucking Tyranids._

    • @drakashrakenburgproduction5369
      @drakashrakenburgproduction5369 6 місяців тому +2

      @@feralhistorianit was frustrating how stupid they were. Do you want a pan-American world or a slave holding world?

  • @Churchmilitant67
    @Churchmilitant67 2 місяці тому

    In other words a phrrhic victory...

  • @cropathfinder
    @cropathfinder 7 днів тому

    Its called mary sue syndrome nothing profound about it