Your video is totally on point! It's a sad thing how Gotham showrunners caught lightning in a bottle, and then just... threw it all away. And now, even the post-Jeremiah character has Monaghan buried under tons of makeup and prosthetics.. so.. there you go. They could've simply made Jerome fall into the chemical vat.
I think they just wanted to show the different faces and incarnations of the Joker in one show. The Joker who hates Batman and the Joker who sees him as his best friend. The funny charismatic Joker and the chilling scary one. The edgy Joker with the ripped up face and the sophisticated clown prince of crime. The mad and the insane. The hysterical and the calmly loony. And I don't think Jerome could've embodied ALL of that. So personally, I really like Jeremiah, and for these 5 seasons, so far they've made good decisions, in my opinion.
This is very similar to how I saw it as well, like a split personality for the character, but embodied through two different people. Jerome is the more chaotic, anarchist side of joker, who only really wants to see destruction and suffering, really, he's just looking for a good time. Where as Jeremiah is the cold and calculated side of Joker, the side that come up with elaborate schemes of world domination to accomplish more than his other chaotic half could. Their relationship with Bruce only highlights duality of the twins. Honestly, if you combined both of them, I think you'd get something that closely resembles the Joker we all know and love
Jeremiah is the best live action Joker for me. His reveal in episode 20 of season 4... my god. I think Ace Chemicals is gonna be the best episode of the show.
Imo jermiah is a better joker then jerome jermiah has slowly diped into madness and really thinks hes sane but you can see his sliping further and further down and he just looks perfect as the joker
It actually is proven that he was always crazy, So he has no real character development, he is just the Joker without Makeup at the start, Jeremiah even says himself "other than some minor cosmetic affects, he may as well had of sprayed me with water" he even admitted that he was crazy before. Jerome was a great Joker because he actually developed himself with his plans, his looks, and his relationships with other Gotham characters, Jerome embodies everything the Joker should be, he's got a bit of Mark Hamill, a tad of Heath Ledger, and a slight touch of Jack Nicholson, Jeremiah is mostly the cliché bad guy, he is very smart, he wants to destroy Gotham, he has a brotherly like relationship with Bruce, to me it's a Cliché Joker.
@@benformation8123 I have to disagree, I think what they wanted to tell was that Jeremiah wasn't crazy at all until Jerome sprayed him with that gas, the gas worked just as intended but it's Jeremiah's ego and disdain for his brother that makes him think it didn't work. You see Jeremiah believes he's superior to Jerome in every way and would never admit, not even to himself, that Jerome could ever outsmart or get the better of him. Jerome represented the anarchistic side of the Joker the one that just wants to inflict chaos. Jeremiah is more calculated, a psychopathic genius with a plan and besides that he also looks perfectly like the Joker.
Michael Diekmann No you see in season 4 he was more calm and calculated. by season 5 he was more crazy and wild, showing signs of split personality when talking to himself, showing the gas had long term effects on him driving him more into madness. Edit: yes I know it probably was just a decision by the producers to make him more "Joker like" but still we the fans can still speculate and try to find a canonical reason for it.
I agree with this completely, also remember Jerome grew up in a circus. He saw people with make up on pretty much everyday! He could've just played around with it and started to wear the joker make up because of his circus background!
No Joker started off circus related though. Killing Joke-Chemical engineer/Comedian, Silver age- chemical worker, 1989 film/Batman the Animated Series- gangster/enforcer for the mob. The Joker worked with different backstory, so the Jeremiah plot works just as easily
As much as I like the Killing Joke origin, I have to say his Killing Joke origin is not the real one either . I think the Joker doesn't have an origin story because the original creators of the Joker had the idea that the Joker could've been anyone, even someone like you . There are many ways that you can go insane, having a horrible Childhood, a losing everything, falling into chemicals, mental scars caused by some traumatic pyschical experience ect . The Joker could be anyone .
14:13 Jeremiah is better than Jerome. It wouldn't have made sense for Jerome to go from wanting to kill Bruce to wanting to break him because Jerome was the type of Joker who just wanted to cause chaos and kill people whereas Jeremiah's more about breaking Bruce and proving that he's just like him. Jerome was never the philosophical "Everyone's like me deep down and I'll prove it" type of Joker like Jeremiah is. The closest he got to that was his "Gotham has no heroes" speech in Season 3 when he knocked out the city's power and told everyone to do what they wanted and believed they'd shown their true selves in the riots he caused. Apart from that he was never out to prove a point like Jeremiah is.
Xehanort10 I agree Jeremiah is better then Jerome but in Jerome’s case in Batman Arkham origins joker wanted to kill Batman until realizing at the end how much a connection they have and went to the Batman v joker aspect
Nonsense. Jerome could just have a change of heart: - "We, uh, kill the Batman" / "I don't wanna kill you! What would I do without you?" -"... and I won't kill you, because you're just too much fun!" Ring any bells?
@@alwayssayingbasically5292 Joker is an anarchist, he's not Wilson Fisk who'd want to rebuild Gotham in his own image but has to destroy first. He's an anarchist. That's who joker is. Jerome was the perfect joker. He had the careless menace of Heath Ledger. Laugh of Mark Hamil. Campy yet cold blooded approach of Jack Nicholson. He had charisma, he was funny as joker is supposed to be. He was the perfect joker. All relationships develop. Not like Joker never tried to kill Batman.
This will most likely be just me thinking this, but I find it odd that everyone loved Jerome when he was on with everyone saying how he was the best part of the show, but when Jeremiah turned up completely out of the blue with hardly any setup or development from previous seasons, everyone was suddenly like "He's so much better than Jerome in every way" or "This is the Joker we've been waiting for". Really? Granted, Jeremiah is intelligent and crafty, but he's just no fun to watch and very much reminded me of Frank Miller's version from All Star Batman and Robin, which is one of my least favourite interpretations of the character. I still think they could've kept Jerome around, gave him more development and have him gone from wanting to kill Bruce to wanting to break him to turn him into the brother he wanted. After all, he could've had a change of heart considering how Bruce held his own against him in episode 3x14. Jerome even stated in that episode, "we make a good team you and me".
I would like a Joker that would do his own thing and not get any inspirations from The Valeska’s work. Because he’s the Joker. He doesn’t get inspired by anything. He conducts whatever diabolical plot he can think of and builds it all up with what he has. He didn’t get inspired to Kidnap Jason and beat him to death, he just came up with the idea without looking other villains’ work or past crimes. Anyways, great video essay! Really loved it. 👍🏻👍🏻
What if Jeremiah and Jerome were both alive, but at Ace Chemicals, Bruce accidentally pushed both of them in the vat. Only one made it out but they don’t know which and when they asks, he just says: “JOKER.”
I'm sorry, but in full honesty, that Bruce/Jerome team-up idea sounds awful to me. There are a lot of things I would change or develop with the Gotham Joker arc, which I still find enjoyable despite its flaws, but I think you're showing a bit of bias in regards to Jerome just because Jeremiah has had less screentime and development (not to mention how Jerome acts more like a traditional Joker while Jeremiah is more reminiscent of the Golden Age/Dark Knight Returns Joker, which a lot of casual fans of the character don't like because he doesn't act how they want him to). The twin idea, while soap opera-ish in nature, kind of makes sense when you go with the train of thought that there are two Jokers in a deck of cards (one colorful which fits with Jerome's bombastic attitude, and the other in black-and-white which fits Jeremiah cold and calculating behavior). Cameron Monaghan himself even pointed that out in a past tweet when the hype for Jeremiah's introduction was in full motion. They're two sides of the same coin, so to speak. I don't see how Jeremiah is a copycat of Jerome either. He has a different demeanor and objectives in comparison to Jerome. Saying he's a copycat just because they're both insane and have an anarchy ideology is analizing the characters on a surface level and nothing else. If anything, I'd say Jeremiah's character resembles John Doe from the TellTale games more than Jerome. I will say this though. I think the twin storyline would have gone a lot better for some people if they had introduced Jeremiah earlier, or foreshadowed his character from the very beginning. I kinda like the idea of Jerome sort of being this puppet master weaving the conflict of Batman and the Joker.
Really agreed with this. It seems love for Jerome creates a bias of sorts because even in season 5, Jeremiah is not similar to Jerome in any way. He is more like a boogeyman, when he appears. He doesn't need to bombastic because he is more dangerous. Jerome is in your face and short sighted, while Jeremiah is more long term villain.
I thought of it as a split personality for the character, but embodied through two different people. Jerome is the more chaotic, anarchist side of joker, who only really wants to see destruction and suffering, really, he's just looking for a good time. Where as Jeremiah is the cold and calculated side of Joker, the side that come up with elaborate schemes of world domination to accomplish more than his other chaotic half could. Their relationship with Bruce only highlights duality of the twins. Honestly, if you combined both of them, I think you'd get something that closely resembles the Joker we all know and love
As someone who has not had a chance to see season 5 of Gotham, I get what you mean. What if Jerome was scared of Jeremiah? Maybe he comes back into Gotham and Jerome, scared for unknown reasons, creates a plan that brings him, Bruce Wayne, and Gordon together. Once he has them, he forces them to work with him and then there would be a mystery of who Jeremiah is. This would later result in Jerome being a poor impression and Jeremiah, who wishes Jerome was dead, is after him. The end of season 4 could be Jerome’s death and we’d reveal that Jeremiah is not the older brother’s true name and end with a shadowy figure watching the news, eating popcorn and letting out a laugh.
I feel like the show runners must have just really wanted Cameron in the make-up but for years they had been saying that Jerome was never going to be the Joker (because they had to thanks to Warner Bros.). But instead of just putting Jerome in the make-up and continuing to deny he is the Joker, they panicked and did the whole twin brother thing. While Cameron's performance is still great, there was really no good reason for them not to put Jerome in the make-up.
Jeremiah is the victim of foolish producers. As they are forced wrap with only half a season without doing what they really wanted. More side stories and stuff more flushed out.
Jeremiah and Jerome will most likely become one when the Joker finally appears. It is the joining of these variants to make the definitive Joker as we've seen in Batman The Animated Series.
Ever wonder just how large a percentage of viewers base their like of Jeremiah solely on physical appearance? Just read the comment section. Totally behind your opinion on Jerome. In my opinion, Jerome Valeska was and IS the better Joker. Jeremiah still seems like a last minute idea to me. Such a small amount of backstory. Hardly any character development. Sure, he has the Joker make-up. He's similar to the Dark Knight Returns version. But does that make him better? No! Absolutely not! Even the whole super sane thing is a bit off. Joker is many things. You can call him whatever you would like but..BUT you can NOT call him a copycat. And that is what Jeremiah is. A copycat. One thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that the insanity gas DID turn Jeremiah insane. He said it himself: "Look, Bruce. Like everything Jerome set his mind to, his insanity gas failed. Other than some mild cosmetic effects, he might as well have sprayed me with water.". That is Jeremiah going through a bit of denial. Jerome did win. He outsmarted his twin. Set him free so to speak. Jerome was the beginning; the architect. LONG LIVE JEROME!! That ending was priceless: "I disagree with you." "No, you don't!" "Okay.".
Jeremiah is not like Jerome. So he cant be a copycat. I liked jerome a lot. But Jeremiah has a stronger motivation and he is definitely not sane. Idk why ppl think tht. Also Jeremiah comes long with Ecco who may not have HQ's backstory but is a great Live Action Harley Quinn.
• RK • Example of how Jeremiah is like Jerome. I'll be using Jeremiah's own words for this: " I have a compendium of all of Jerome's obsessions and goals, and I will outdo everyone of them.". Why this line? Because it shows that Jeremiah is simply mimicking his brother in many ways.
Me: Jeremiah victorious? Are you serious? Shoots the Jeremiah follower. Please Jerome is victorious, so let's bring back our leader. After bringing Jerome back. Me: Yes. Laughs. Jerome wakes up and grabes me. Jerome: Who the hell are you and where the hell am I? Me: I'm Alex and you're in my basement. Jerome: Why? Me: I'm a follower, more of your number one fan really, and I hate your brother Jeremiah, so I brought you back to see chaos and make it worse, and by worse I mean make it better. Jerome: Chaos, you mean gotham turned into a no mans land? I nod. Jerome: Well now I know what we should do. Me: What's that Mr. Valeska? Jerome: We're gonna surprise everyone and blow this popcorn stand. He laughs and then I laugh. Me: You're a real joker sir. Jerome: Joker, I like that. For now on you call me..... Joker.
I love Jerome, he is still the best Joker in my eyes. But Jeremiah has brought the other side of the Joker to the story which I kind of like. I appreciate them both.
Jeremiah summed it all up in the "Ace Chemicals" episode by letting his inner showman shine with just one line: "I wanna be the star of the show!". He seems like a good Joker to me. ; )
Nice video, love these discussions. I only became aware of Jerome in 2017 and didn't start Gotham until the S4 mid-finale, so I'm positive the only reason I'm more receptive to Jeremiah is I didn't begin the show back in 2014 with Jerome as my *only* Joker option, since the time I'd caught up is when we first heard about Cameron playing someone else. That being said, still love him to death and understand completely why you and others prefer him. Your question; was the twin twist *necessary* for Gotham's Joker? No. They could've done what you suggested and developed Jerome into an even better fit, THEN dunked him into Ace Chemicals, and I would've been fine. But I think the reason for Jeremiah is simple - a clean slate was easier (cont)... Without regard to how fans might react (even though I think at-least 50% are sold on Jeremiah now), making a new character still played by Cameron *immediately* have the things Jerome was missing (GENIUS intellect, usual Joker/Batman dynamic & longer arc to becoming evil) was easier, plus no doubt allowed them to show Cam's acting range even further. They didn't NEED to, but it was imo at-least the easier option, and depending on different opinions not necessarily the one they SHOULD have gone with. Personally I like Jeremiah because his character seems deeper and with more layers, he takes things higher than Jerome did (literally making No Man's Land for god's sake), and as I mentioned gives us a more gradual, slow Joker transition: pushed to the edge by fear of Jerome, driven "super-sane" via the gas, and now slowly losing it in S5 with Ace Chemicals as the thing to give him a final push. Usually with the typical Joker birth-story, we have a normal (ish) guy, then a tragedy/something which MAKES him the Joker. Even though Jerome *technically* had that with the abusive upbringing, we didn't really see much of it, or at-least enough to sell the impact. Jeremiah is going on a proper journey that fits the step-by-step guide for your usual Joker origin. Perhaps lastly, I'm satisfied that Jeremiah ISN'T a copycat. He's distinctly different from his brother. Not maniacal, cartoonish or eccentric (which are still Joker traits), rather a straightforward "this is how it is, no stopping me, capiche?" attiude, and meticulously explosive. Still Mr J, just another rendition. Like I said, they could've stuck w/ Jerome like you wanted, and even though I prefer Jeremiah I'd shed no tears. But I'm ok with, and even like, how they HAVE done it. Sorry that you haven't, but hey, it's inevitable. Hope you enjoy tonight's episode somewhat? ❤️️🃏
Honestly, I think the Joker arc would be stronger if it was Jeremiah and Bruce from the start, kind of have them actually be best friends throughout the TV series, and you can still do the twin arc where instead of Jeremiah it would be Jerome who would make his appearance further in the season. From there, we do the whole last Jerome arc, and then with the same thing of turning Jeremiah crazy. By doing this, we would not only have too many things to compare Jeremiah too with Jerome since the latter wouldn't have so many appearances to compare him too, and we would actually sympathize and understand Bruce's and Jeremiah's relationship. Would have made this twist feel more earned.
In the Arkham series im pretty sure the Joker wanted him dead as in like every room in Asylum the Joker told his henchmen to kill him and anyone Bruce and Batman is different.
Shady 123 Nah, at the beginning of Arkham Origins Joker didn’t care about Batman. He just thought he was a distraction. But when Batman saved him from death, he found a purpose. He then thought of Batman as like a best friend and enemy. And he wanted to break him down throughout the rest of the game, but he failed. In the next three games you can see he is trying to kill Batman, but he still thinks of him as a friend and he know he’ll survive. Even in Arkham City he says he couldn’t bare to think of him dying and who would really understand him. There are even hints throughout Asylum and Knight that Joker thinks of Batman as a brother. Joker knows Batman will survive everything, but he just tries to play along with the whole evil villain thing.
I think what would've made it cooler if Ra's Al Ghul showed Bruce's future to Jerome, and Jerome would've been like : "Hmmm this looks fun . What a shame it would be if he died." Then Jerome would see Bruce as his one destiny in life, the one thing that seems truly good in his life, which would give him a true purpose in life . He kinda suceeds because Bruce will give into the darkness and becomes Batman, but that won't be enough for him . Later when Jerome is the Joker and when Bruce is Batman, the Joker would try to break Batman so he could bring the inner darkness out of Bruce .
I think Jeremiah is the 2nd best Joker of all time. I don’t get why you say it jumped the shark, if you ask me it got a whole lot better in S4 and even better in S5
Well...something to consider...Jerome doesn’t really have a reason to team up with Bruce..I mean it’s predictable that he’d try to kill him during it. Heck, he’s only obsessed with killing Bruce so he can kill him. Jeremiah...just wants to have a brother in his own twisted way. That’s more joker like to me.
What if I’m 4x17 Jeremiah while he has Jerome captive he does experiments to him that can make him sane but it makes his personality split with Jerome’s and Jeremiah personality and Jeremiah dies and Jerome continues to live but with the personality of Jeremiah part of him, this making him do no mans land and leading him to fight Bruce at ace chemicals
The Joker is a mysterious character and having to know so little about Jeremiah makes him a threat like Ledger's was. Ledger captured what made Joker scary and iconic in the comics. I think we would've got bored of Jerome. This was a nice twist, unpredictable.
The reason why Jerome was killed was that he was too damn good. They needed an excuse to tell us.. Oh jerome isn't the joker, but wait he has a brother. LOL
I think season 4 Jeremiah is the best character throughout the whole show but in season 5 he has lost that sinister cold calculated tone and it seems more like the writers are trying to make him into Jerome. (Mr J is cool too btw but the worst out of the three. Yes I’m saying THREE because I don’t see him as Jeremiah and neither does he)
I loved Jerome and when I heard that he had a twin brother and you would see him in a couple episodes I didn’t like it. It felt rushed but then Jerome died again and he sprayed him with that gas. I was happy because I knew we were going to get the joker. And the reveal at the cemetery in my opinion was amazing. I like Jeremiah better because he did what he wanted he blew up the bridges Jerome would have never done that he would have just laughed and then he would just get caught but not Jeremiah and watching him fall into the chemical vat was amazing once again I knew this is it. Jeremiah has always been the joker Jerome was just a little taste of it
the reason the joker twist happened was simply because Jerome had too much screen time beforehand and for him to be Jerome then suddenly turn to joker would've been extremely underwhelming. The way that Jeremiah was turned into joker was absolutely thrilling in the way that we didn't really know the character too well. So to see him become insane like that was just brilliant. In the case of the joker now seeming like a copycat, I disagree. It shows the legacy of a joker who never got to be but instead was the reason for the rise of Gotham's clown prince of crime.
I think it would've been better if Jeremiah was introduced before Jerome came back to life in Season 3, and have him make friends with Bruce way before the transformation happened. It would make for a cool moment seeing Bruce lose his actual best friend to madness
May I fix some thing Instead of that what should happen is Jerome and Bruce have to stop jerhimahi just like you say but it ends different Jerome and Bruce take down jerhimahi as Jerome takes a gun and walks to jerhimahi on the floor jerhimahi takes out some gas and sprays it at Jerome as Jerome falls to the floor laughing jerhimahi gets up and smirks as he says “Why don’t we finally have one of those family reunions!” Jerome face is burning Bruce runs as jerhimahi picks up Jerome by the arm as Jerome says covering his face now burned with smoke coming off of him “always knew you had it in you brother HAHAHAHAHA” heheheheheheheheheheheheheh jerhimahi giggles now i will stop there but that leaves Jerome and jerhimahi are both the joker and by the end of the series Jerome now has a MORE disfigured face is sent back to Arkham and we see his last apprentice of him in his final joker face why jerhimahi is sent to a mental institution all the way at the end of Gotham he stays there and his 2 final sences his first his getting in a fight with Jerome why be put in the car saying two Jerome “you stay at Arkham to stay and rot why i get to live in a small peaceful luxury I am the successful one” and the other is of him trying to monipolate a cop what I’m trying to set up is Jerome is set to become more crazy and soon forget who he is witch leads him to becoming our og joker And jerhimahi becomes the killing joke joker being not insane but more intelligent
People who genuinely prefer Jeremiah over Jerome are A) blinded by hype surrounding the Joker in S5, and B) love the way Jeremiah looks. I hate all this revisionist Jerome hate. "Jerome was just brainless chaotic idiot, Jeremiah is the true calculated mastermind Joker from the comics!1111"
I'm not sure how anyone can think Jerome was stupid. Look at all the things he did, (eg he even out foxed Penguin) how he commanded other villains (with charismatic ease) etc. He was a smart cookie. I also hear how goofy he was....and he was humorous..but goofy? He was damn brutal. Horribly so. Sometimes I question people's perceptions.
Aunty Ro Knows That’s kind of a different type of smart though. Jerome wouldn’t be able to build those contractions or make the TITAN formula like in the Arkham Games.
@@margaretdaly7302 A different kind? Maybe. The only difference in intelligence I saw was one was educated and one wasn't. Had Jerome been given an extensive education he would have had the knowledge. If anything was really different, it was emotional. Jerome was manic which made it hard for him to concentrate. There was even a scene that illustrated that perfectly. So I really don't see Jeremiah as having greater intelligence.
No, it is a calculated decision to bring the definitive Joker to the live screen. The different variants of this character will most likely be joined in the finale. Just look at the leaked images of the Joker. There's horror, there's sophistication, there's so much about it that feels like Joker. That's just off of the visual you can see. Jeremiah is more like Jack Nicholson, the mobster joker, while Jerome was more of the batshit insane one.
Love your videos but you know what would be great! The Jerome gas that he gave Jeremiah was actually to Jerome to take over Jeremiah body but it doesn’t work until the chemical aced that Jeremiah falls in and then Jerome come back and love your joker(mostly Jerome)videos
Now they are going to have him fall into liquid at building and turning into the joker complete and different from before in how he looks like the joker and acting like the joker this time
This show needs better writers. Almost all the actors are very talented but are not well used. Cameron is a perfect example,. Whether you prefer Jeremiah, or Jerome, 'the joker who is not the joker because WB' was not a storyline that was handled well. They spent so much time on Jerome who grew to the audience and suddenly you replace him with his twin who has a very little time to develop. To cut it short, the show is a beautiful mess with potential. I'm sad it ends but at the same time I'm glad. The made a lot of interesting twists on many characters but almost all went downhill PS: I LOVED the intro!!!
I like Jeremiah much better as a joker he's smarter more calm and more sinister he also didn't embrace his true nature at first and I think that's makes a better story with him and bruce
Wish they kept Jerome if they wanted to change his personality to be like what we see in Jeremiah have him at some point be with Strange give him amnesia and heal him up and when he gets his memory back he becomes a blend of his amnesia self (Jeremiah) & Jerome It’s pretty dumb but I can see Gotham doing it I would’ve preferred it than the twin twist we got but what do you all think?
The best JOKER would be to make a Genetic Modification from Jerome and Jeremiah by Dr. Strang. I think Cameron Monaghan is perfect to play in a next Joker Movie, he is the only one who play 2 maybe 3 various Mr.J (Joker in Comics).
Honestly, they should have introduced Jeremiah in S1 and develop his character from there. Introduce Jerome in S4 and start the actual transformation of Jeremiah from there. But instead, we got not bloody joker Jerome overacting for 3 and a half seasons and introduce "The REAL joker" in the final episodes of S4. Bad enough they didn't include Dent, but this joker situation is completely ridiculous!!!
I understand why they did this, it pisses me off but I get it, I think this whole thing would sort of work out if they introduce a third character, at least then they could say 'we were trying to be like the comics'
I get your argument here and obviously Jeremiah's has some problems mainly with how he was introduced I don't deny. But for arguments sake I'm going just point out a few things I took note of in your video. Take note I am more of a Jeremiah fan than Jerome but I 100% understand if someone is the opposite. In the beginning like [2:18-2:50] Jeremiah was really only denying he was sane, the chemical gas was still working it's affects on him but he was definitely insane. And Jeremiah and Ra's both have a vision for Bruce which is why they worked together he wasn't really being his lacky even if it was Ra's plan they were following, Jeremiah was still following his own agenda it just happen to line up with Ra's own agenda as well. [6:20-8:18] I completely agree Jerome was a walking cartoon. [11:40-12:20] Okay a couple things here: 1) saying he's a Gary Stu doesn't really sit right with me because almost every villain in the in Batman mythos is a Gary/Mary Stu to some degree. And I think they were aiming for to make Jeremiah a kinda of antisocial shy person which would fit his past. 2) I think to make the Jeremiah's Joker better they should have introduced him earlier on in season 4 like the half way point and not so late into it and they should have given foreshadowing from previous seasons of his existence. This would have left room for them to explore his character before his fall to madness and build up his relationship with Bruce which is the primary focus of his character after all. I would have love to see Jeremiah and Bruce building a best friend like relationship(which is something neither of them have had) which would have made it more sad when Jeremiah becomes twisted and mad. You can basically drop the running off into the night "I going to be a vigilante Alfred and you can stop me!" And they could have had Bruce working hard to bring Jeremiah back into society and start to build a friendship that would have made all the shippers gone crazy. [13:00-13:10] I actually like how Jerome's last laugh was the idea that he created the worst villian that would ever plague Gotham; that he was the puppet master to the ultimate creation of the Joker. [15:20-15:28]. I always think of it like there are two joker cards in a deck and also they wanted to showcase different versions of the joker in the same show which is something that's never been done before so I like Gotham more for that. [17:08-17:45] okay I get that was just a spitball but no, if there was a larger threat it would be in Jerome's charcater to just laugh and accelerate the threat rather than work with Bruce and then see "oh your not just a good guy, your a really good guy! Let's be friends" like in season 4 Bruce had saved Jerome from his uncle and we saw how Jerome reacted to that. [18:18-18:50] well the problem with that Ecco idea is that they already changed the Harley Quinn origin and Harley Quinn is supposed to be a head over heels for Joker so making it so she was loyal to Jeremiah then loyal to Jerome just changes her already changed charcater. Plus Jerome had Barbara as his kinda Harley. [21:00-21:05] oh no there are bigger mistakes I feel.
Jeremiah was a mistake. WE ARE JEROME. But seriously though, people keep saying that Jerome was just a "chaotic idiot" but they couldve developed a more serious side of him after his first death, they just wasted the opportunity.
They are doing this to be part of the comic books and by him fall into the liquid that made him the joker so they can get it right this time that it happened that way just in time for batman to be on the show to do both of them
Your video is totally on point! It's a sad thing how Gotham showrunners caught lightning in a bottle, and then just... threw it all away. And now, even the post-Jeremiah character has Monaghan buried under tons of makeup and prosthetics.. so.. there you go. They could've simply made Jerome fall into the chemical vat.
I mean Jerome was supposed to die like right after he came back so I’m glad we got what we got
I think they just wanted to show the different faces and incarnations of the Joker in one show. The Joker who hates Batman and the Joker who sees him as his best friend. The funny charismatic Joker and the chilling scary one. The edgy Joker with the ripped up face and the sophisticated clown prince of crime. The mad and the insane. The hysterical and the calmly loony. And I don't think Jerome could've embodied ALL of that. So personally, I really like Jeremiah, and for these 5 seasons, so far they've made good decisions, in my opinion.
completely agree
crazyfun95 agreed
I think Jeremiah will eventfully embodied because recently he talking to himself he trying to hold back laughs and stuff
This is very similar to how I saw it as well, like a split personality for the character, but embodied through two different people. Jerome is the more chaotic, anarchist side of joker, who only really wants to see destruction and suffering, really, he's just looking for a good time. Where as Jeremiah is the cold and calculated side of Joker, the side that come up with elaborate schemes of world domination to accomplish more than his other chaotic half could. Their relationship with Bruce only highlights duality of the twins. Honestly, if you combined both of them, I think you'd get something that closely resembles the Joker we all know and love
I myself realy like how Jeremiah turned out.
Do you like his 10 year time jump look?
Jeremiah is the best live action Joker for me. His reveal in episode 20 of season 4... my god. I think Ace Chemicals is gonna be the best episode of the show.
Dimitris Kountouris
David Mazouz who plays Bruce Wayne, said it was his favourite episode in the entire show.
It’s was ok but Jerome is way better
@@margaretdaly7302 I have a question
Jarrod Edson
What?
AssetSiege
I’ve known that my whole life, lol. What gave you the thought I didn’t?
Jeromes face was already pretty pale so he just needed Green hair and red lips really
That's brilliant actually. "Was Jerome's skin bleached?" "No he'a just a pale ginger".
@@ChannelPup His skin on his face became more pale in Season 4 due to the many bloodloss after his fight with Bruce and Gordon in 3x14
Imo jermiah is a better joker then jerome jermiah has slowly diped into madness and really thinks hes sane but you can see his sliping further and further down and he just looks perfect as the joker
It actually is proven that he was always crazy, So he has no real character development, he is just the Joker without Makeup at the start, Jeremiah even says himself "other than some minor cosmetic affects, he may as well had of sprayed me with water" he even admitted that he was crazy before.
Jerome was a great Joker because he actually developed himself with his plans, his looks, and his relationships with other Gotham characters, Jerome embodies everything the Joker should be, he's got a bit of Mark Hamill, a tad of Heath Ledger, and a slight touch of Jack Nicholson, Jeremiah is mostly the cliché bad guy, he is very smart, he wants to destroy Gotham, he has a brotherly like relationship with Bruce, to me it's a Cliché Joker.
@@benformation8123 I have to disagree, I think what they wanted to tell was that Jeremiah wasn't crazy at all until Jerome sprayed him with that gas, the gas worked just as intended but it's Jeremiah's ego and disdain for his brother that makes him think it didn't work. You see Jeremiah believes he's superior to Jerome in every way and would never admit, not even to himself, that Jerome could ever outsmart or get the better of him.
Jerome represented the anarchistic side of the Joker the one that just wants to inflict chaos. Jeremiah is more calculated, a psychopathic genius with a plan and besides that he also looks perfectly like the Joker.
seeing this show evolve from season 1 to 5 is so good
Slowly? One madness gas packet and one episode of faking seeing dead Jerome. It's pathetic.
Michael Diekmann No you see in season 4 he was more calm and calculated. by season 5 he was more crazy and wild, showing signs of split personality when talking to himself, showing the gas had long term effects on him driving him more into madness.
Edit: yes I know it probably was just a decision by the producers to make him more "Joker like" but still we the fans can still speculate and try to find a canonical reason for it.
I agree with this completely, also remember Jerome grew up in a circus. He saw people with make up on pretty much everyday! He could've just played around with it and started to wear the joker make up because of his circus background!
No Joker started off circus related though. Killing Joke-Chemical engineer/Comedian, Silver age- chemical worker, 1989 film/Batman the Animated Series- gangster/enforcer for the mob. The Joker worked with different backstory, so the Jeremiah plot works just as easily
As much as I like the Killing Joke origin, I have to say his Killing Joke origin is not the real one either . I think the Joker doesn't have an origin story because the original creators of the Joker had the idea that the Joker could've been anyone, even someone like you . There are many ways that you can go insane, having a horrible Childhood, a losing everything, falling into chemicals, mental scars caused by some traumatic pyschical experience ect . The Joker could be anyone .
17:13
I love the concept of Jeremiah being paranoid and him trapping Jeremiah and Bruce together
14:13 Jeremiah is better than Jerome. It wouldn't have made sense for Jerome to go from wanting to kill Bruce to wanting to break him because Jerome was the type of Joker who just wanted to cause chaos and kill people whereas Jeremiah's more about breaking Bruce and proving that he's just like him. Jerome was never the philosophical "Everyone's like me deep down and I'll prove it" type of Joker like Jeremiah is. The closest he got to that was his "Gotham has no heroes" speech in Season 3 when he knocked out the city's power and told everyone to do what they wanted and believed they'd shown their true selves in the riots he caused. Apart from that he was never out to prove a point like Jeremiah is.
Xehanort10 I agree Jeremiah is better then Jerome but in Jerome’s case in Batman Arkham origins joker wanted to kill Batman until realizing at the end how much a connection they have and went to the Batman v joker aspect
@@pokeliteral Origins Joker is one of my favourites. It is a very underrated game.
Not true, the whole reason Jeremiah even exists is because Jerome thinks it takes One Bad Day to turn the sanest man alive to lunacy.
Nonsense. Jerome could just have a change of heart:
- "We, uh, kill the Batman" / "I don't wanna kill you! What would I do without you?"
-"... and I won't kill you, because you're just too much fun!"
Ring any bells?
@@alwayssayingbasically5292 Joker is an anarchist, he's not Wilson Fisk who'd want to rebuild Gotham in his own image but has to destroy first. He's an anarchist. That's who joker is. Jerome was the perfect joker. He had the careless menace of Heath Ledger. Laugh of Mark Hamil. Campy yet cold blooded approach of Jack Nicholson. He had charisma, he was funny as joker is supposed to be. He was the perfect joker. All relationships develop. Not like Joker never tried to kill Batman.
This will most likely be just me thinking this, but I find it odd that everyone loved Jerome when he was on with everyone saying how he was the best part of the show, but when Jeremiah turned up completely out of the blue with hardly any setup or development from previous seasons, everyone was suddenly like "He's so much better than Jerome in every way" or "This is the Joker we've been waiting for". Really? Granted, Jeremiah is intelligent and crafty, but he's just no fun to watch and very much reminded me of Frank Miller's version from All Star Batman and Robin, which is one of my least favourite interpretations of the character.
I still think they could've kept Jerome around, gave him more development and have him gone from wanting to kill Bruce to wanting to break him to turn him into the brother he wanted. After all, he could've had a change of heart considering how Bruce held his own against him in episode 3x14. Jerome even stated in that episode, "we make a good team you and me".
Ryan Pollard
No offence. But I think you’re kinda just jumping to what others think. Like, a lot of people prefer Jeremiah.
I would like a Joker that would do his own thing and not get any inspirations from The Valeska’s work. Because he’s the Joker. He doesn’t get inspired by anything. He conducts whatever diabolical plot he can think of and builds it all up with what he has. He didn’t get inspired to Kidnap Jason and beat him to death, he just came up with the idea without looking other villains’ work or past crimes.
Anyways, great video essay! Really loved it. 👍🏻👍🏻
Jeremiah is actually doing it for me but I like your idea as well so yeah entertaining vid I'd love to see you do more of these kind of rewrite vids.
What if Jeremiah and Jerome were both alive, but at Ace Chemicals, Bruce accidentally pushed both of them in the vat. Only one made it out but they don’t know which and when they asks, he just says: “JOKER.”
I'm sorry, but in full honesty, that Bruce/Jerome team-up idea sounds awful to me.
There are a lot of things I would change or develop with the Gotham Joker arc, which I still find enjoyable despite its flaws, but I think you're showing a bit of bias in regards to Jerome just because Jeremiah has had less screentime and development (not to mention how Jerome acts more like a traditional Joker while Jeremiah is more reminiscent of the Golden Age/Dark Knight Returns Joker, which a lot of casual fans of the character don't like because he doesn't act how they want him to).
The twin idea, while soap opera-ish in nature, kind of makes sense when you go with the train of thought that there are two Jokers in a deck of cards (one colorful which fits with Jerome's bombastic attitude, and the other in black-and-white which fits Jeremiah cold and calculating behavior). Cameron Monaghan himself even pointed that out in a past tweet when the hype for Jeremiah's introduction was in full motion. They're two sides of the same coin, so to speak.
I don't see how Jeremiah is a copycat of Jerome either. He has a different demeanor and objectives in comparison to Jerome. Saying he's a copycat just because they're both insane and have an anarchy ideology is analizing the characters on a surface level and nothing else. If anything, I'd say Jeremiah's character resembles John Doe from the TellTale games more than Jerome.
I will say this though. I think the twin storyline would have gone a lot better for some people if they had introduced Jeremiah earlier, or foreshadowed his character from the very beginning. I kinda like the idea of Jerome sort of being this puppet master weaving the conflict of Batman and the Joker.
JurassicDork1993 so well said. This summarizes my thoughts.
Dude I for real agree with the telltale comparison
Really agreed with this. It seems love for Jerome creates a bias of sorts because even in season 5, Jeremiah is not similar to Jerome in any way. He is more like a boogeyman, when he appears. He doesn't need to bombastic because he is more dangerous. Jerome is in your face and short sighted, while Jeremiah is more long term villain.
I thought of it as a split personality for the character, but embodied through two different people. Jerome is the more chaotic, anarchist side of joker, who only really wants to see destruction and suffering, really, he's just looking for a good time. Where as Jeremiah is the cold and calculated side of Joker, the side that come up with elaborate schemes of world domination to accomplish more than his other chaotic half could. Their relationship with Bruce only highlights duality of the twins. Honestly, if you combined both of them, I think you'd get something that closely resembles the Joker we all know and love
As someone who has not had a chance to see season 5 of Gotham, I get what you mean. What if Jerome was scared of Jeremiah? Maybe he comes back into Gotham and Jerome, scared for unknown reasons, creates a plan that brings him, Bruce Wayne, and Gordon together. Once he has them, he forces them to work with him and then there would be a mystery of who Jeremiah is. This would later result in Jerome being a poor impression and Jeremiah, who wishes Jerome was dead, is after him. The end of season 4 could be Jerome’s death and we’d reveal that Jeremiah is not the older brother’s true name and end with a shadowy figure watching the news, eating popcorn and letting out a laugh.
I feel like the show runners must have just really wanted Cameron in the make-up but for years they had been saying that Jerome was never going to be the Joker (because they had to thanks to Warner Bros.). But instead of just putting Jerome in the make-up and continuing to deny he is the Joker, they panicked and did the whole twin brother thing. While Cameron's performance is still great, there was really no good reason for them not to put Jerome in the make-up.
Or they could've just let Jerome without the make up and make him fall into Ace Chemicals and that would've been the last we see of Jerome .
Jeremiah is the victim of foolish producers. As they are forced wrap with only half a season without doing what they really wanted. More side stories and stuff more flushed out.
Jeremiah and Jerome will most likely become one when the Joker finally appears. It is the joining of these variants to make the definitive Joker as we've seen in Batman The Animated Series.
Cameron Monghan is the greatest joker of all time including films, shows, cartoons and comics
Ever wonder just how large a percentage of viewers base their like of Jeremiah solely on physical appearance? Just read the comment section. Totally behind your opinion on Jerome. In my opinion, Jerome Valeska was and IS the better Joker. Jeremiah still seems like a last minute idea to me. Such a small amount of backstory. Hardly any character development. Sure, he has the Joker make-up. He's similar to the Dark Knight Returns version. But does that make him better? No! Absolutely not! Even the whole super sane thing is a bit off. Joker is many things. You can call him whatever you would like but..BUT you can NOT call him a copycat. And that is what Jeremiah is. A copycat.
One thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that the insanity gas DID turn Jeremiah insane. He said it himself: "Look, Bruce. Like everything Jerome set his mind to, his insanity gas failed. Other than some mild cosmetic effects, he might as well have sprayed me with water.". That is Jeremiah going through a bit of denial. Jerome did win. He outsmarted his twin. Set him free so to speak. Jerome was the beginning; the architect. LONG LIVE JEROME!!
That ending was priceless:
"I disagree with you."
"No, you don't!"
"Okay.".
Extremely well said. Also the name Jerome Valeska has a ring to it. Jeremiah Valeska is comparatively a bit of a mouthful.
I agree as well Ryan Tremblay.
Jeremiah is not like Jerome. So he cant be a copycat. I liked jerome a lot. But Jeremiah has a stronger motivation and he is definitely not sane. Idk why ppl think tht. Also Jeremiah comes long with Ecco who may not have HQ's backstory but is a great Live Action Harley Quinn.
• RK • Example of how Jeremiah is like Jerome. I'll be using Jeremiah's own words for this: " I have a compendium of all of Jerome's obsessions and goals, and I will outdo everyone of them.". Why this line? Because it shows that Jeremiah is simply mimicking his brother in many ways.
Ryan Tremblay
To be fair he stopped doing that in like Season 5 and at the end of Season 4 when he just kinda wanted to do his own thing.
ACTUALLY LOVED THAT INTRO 😂😂
I am sorry Mr valeska but it seems your brother is In control. What should we do sir
robot boy Kill him 😂
@@JeromeValeska yes mr valeska. I'll send my troops right away
Me: Jeremiah victorious? Are you serious? Shoots the Jeremiah follower. Please Jerome is victorious, so let's bring back our leader. After bringing Jerome back.
Me: Yes. Laughs.
Jerome wakes up and grabes me.
Jerome: Who the hell are you and where the hell am I?
Me: I'm Alex and you're in my basement.
Jerome: Why?
Me: I'm a follower, more of your number one fan really, and I hate your brother Jeremiah, so I brought you back to see chaos and make it worse, and by worse I mean make it better.
Jerome: Chaos, you mean gotham turned into a no mans land?
I nod.
Jerome: Well now I know what we should do.
Me: What's that Mr. Valeska?
Jerome: We're gonna surprise everyone and blow this popcorn stand.
He laughs and then I laugh.
Me: You're a real joker sir.
Jerome: Joker, I like that. For now on you call me..... Joker.
clown boy
I guarantee you Jeremiah would’ve just wore body-armour again and killed Jerome. Jeremiah always has an Ace to his sleeve.
I love Jerome, he is still the best Joker in my eyes. But Jeremiah has brought the other side of the Joker to the story which I kind of like. I appreciate them both.
Jeremiah summed it all up in the "Ace Chemicals" episode by letting his inner showman shine with just one line:
"I wanna be the star of the show!".
He seems like a good Joker to me. ; )
3:43 I now just realized that the broken off part of the bridge that they're all standing above shapes the Batman Logo
Nice video, love these discussions. I only became aware of Jerome in 2017 and didn't start Gotham until the S4 mid-finale, so I'm positive the only reason I'm more receptive to Jeremiah is I didn't begin the show back in 2014 with Jerome as my *only* Joker option, since the time I'd caught up is when we first heard about Cameron playing someone else. That being said, still love him to death and understand completely why you and others prefer him. Your question; was the twin twist *necessary* for Gotham's Joker? No. They could've done what you suggested and developed Jerome into an even better fit, THEN dunked him into Ace Chemicals, and I would've been fine. But I think the reason for Jeremiah is simple - a clean slate was easier (cont)...
Without regard to how fans might react (even though I think at-least 50% are sold on Jeremiah now), making a new character still played by Cameron *immediately* have the things Jerome was missing (GENIUS intellect, usual Joker/Batman dynamic & longer arc to becoming evil) was easier, plus no doubt allowed them to show Cam's acting range even further. They didn't NEED to, but it was imo at-least the easier option, and depending on different opinions not necessarily the one they SHOULD have gone with. Personally I like Jeremiah because his character seems deeper and with more layers, he takes things higher than Jerome did (literally making No Man's Land for god's sake), and as I mentioned gives us a more gradual, slow Joker transition: pushed to the edge by fear of Jerome, driven "super-sane" via the gas, and now slowly losing it in S5 with Ace Chemicals as the thing to give him a final push. Usually with the typical Joker birth-story, we have a normal (ish) guy, then a tragedy/something which MAKES him the Joker. Even though Jerome *technically* had that with the abusive upbringing, we didn't really see much of it, or at-least enough to sell the impact. Jeremiah is going on a proper journey that fits the step-by-step guide for your usual Joker origin. Perhaps lastly, I'm satisfied that Jeremiah ISN'T a copycat. He's distinctly different from his brother. Not maniacal, cartoonish or eccentric (which are still Joker traits), rather a straightforward "this is how it is, no stopping me, capiche?" attiude, and meticulously explosive. Still Mr J, just another rendition. Like I said, they could've stuck w/ Jerome like you wanted, and even though I prefer Jeremiah I'd shed no tears. But I'm ok with, and even like, how they HAVE done it. Sorry that you haven't, but hey, it's inevitable. Hope you enjoy tonight's episode somewhat? ❤️️🃏
Jerome Valeska
18 Years Old
*Matricide.*
they were both really, really cool, I just wish it was one or the other.
I thought the same thing but the last season & final episode made me love it
Honestly, I think the Joker arc would be stronger if it was Jeremiah and Bruce from the start, kind of have them actually be best friends throughout the TV series, and you can still do the twin arc where instead of Jeremiah it would be Jerome who would make his appearance further in the season. From there, we do the whole last Jerome arc, and then with the same thing of turning Jeremiah crazy. By doing this, we would not only have too many things to compare Jeremiah too with Jerome since the latter wouldn't have so many appearances to compare him too, and we would actually sympathize and understand Bruce's and Jeremiah's relationship. Would have made this twist feel more earned.
So like the Telltale games
I’m in
Great video! Excellent points. I enjoy both versions but I favor Jerome for all the reasons you laid out here. Keep up the great work friend!
In the Arkham series im pretty sure the Joker wanted him dead as in like every room in Asylum the Joker told his henchmen to kill him and anyone Bruce and Batman is different.
Shady 123
Nah, at the beginning of Arkham Origins Joker didn’t care about Batman. He just thought he was a distraction. But when Batman saved him from death, he found a purpose. He then thought of Batman as like a best friend and enemy. And he wanted to break him down throughout the rest of the game, but he failed. In the next three games you can see he is trying to kill Batman, but he still thinks of him as a friend and he know he’ll survive. Even in Arkham City he says he couldn’t bare to think of him dying and who would really understand him. There are even hints throughout Asylum and Knight that Joker thinks of Batman as a brother. Joker knows Batman will survive everything, but he just tries to play along with the whole evil villain thing.
Cameron Monaghan took this show from good to must watch. Loved him since his first appearance.
Yessss another gotham video get in my belly
Cameron is my FAVORITE joker. He reminds me the most of the joker I remember from my comics. That kid's brilliant.
I think Jerome would have loved to see the demon that was the bat in bruce
I think what would've made it cooler if Ra's Al Ghul showed Bruce's future to Jerome, and Jerome would've been like : "Hmmm this looks fun . What a shame it would be if he died." Then Jerome would see Bruce as his one destiny in life, the one thing that seems truly good in his life, which would give him a true purpose in life . He kinda suceeds because Bruce will give into the darkness and becomes Batman, but that won't be enough for him . Later when Jerome is the Joker and when Bruce is Batman, the Joker would try to break Batman so he could bring the inner darkness out of Bruce .
I like Jeremiah and I feel like the fact that we don’t get to know him is kind of a good thing
They did make a mistake with Jerome and Jeremiah. Should’ve just fell in acid, no cosmetics. Should just do Jerome.
Love Gotham- Favorite show- besides GOT
I think when Harvey said sick he meant terminally boring and an absolutely snore fest
I think Jeremiah is the 2nd best Joker of all time. I don’t get why you say it jumped the shark, if you ask me it got a whole lot better in S4 and even better in S5
21:17 Treuer words have never been spoken
I mean Jeremiah is slowly turning from an emotionless gangster into a laughing mastermind that should pick up Jerome’s mannerisms
I agree, I like Jerome and he is better than Jeremiah
Cameron was a good mixture of all the jokers because he is an actor and a fan who experienced all of the other jokers
Nice clockwork orange reference!
Well...something to consider...Jerome doesn’t really have a reason to team up with Bruce..I mean it’s predictable that he’d try to kill him during it. Heck, he’s only obsessed with killing Bruce so he can kill him. Jeremiah...just wants to have a brother in his own twisted way. That’s more joker like to me.
Harry Styles looks like a walking cartoon as well, I think he should've been the DCEU Joker than Jared Leto.
What if I’m 4x17 Jeremiah while he has Jerome captive he does experiments to him that can make him sane but it makes his personality split with Jerome’s and Jeremiah personality and Jeremiah dies and Jerome continues to live but with the personality of Jeremiah part of him, this making him do no mans land and leading him to fight Bruce at ace chemicals
Jonathan Varela
That’s literally impossible but okay lol.
eoghan_d4ly it could be hypnotism!
get over it, its not very healthy -victor zsasz
The Joker is a mysterious character and having to know so little about Jeremiah makes him a threat like Ledger's was. Ledger captured what made Joker scary and iconic in the comics. I think we would've got bored of Jerome. This was a nice twist, unpredictable.
What is WRONG with you if Gotham is your favorite iteration of BATMAN????
The reason why Jerome was killed was that he was too damn good. They needed an excuse to tell us.. Oh jerome isn't the joker, but wait he has a brother. LOL
Heres another question, What was the point of the Bruce Wayne clone in season 3? Can you do a video on that?
I think season 4 Jeremiah is the best character throughout the whole show but in season 5 he has lost that sinister cold calculated tone and it seems more like the writers are trying to make him into Jerome. (Mr J is cool too btw but the worst out of the three. Yes I’m saying THREE because I don’t see him as Jeremiah and neither does he)
I loved Jerome and when I heard that he had a twin brother and you would see him in a couple episodes I didn’t like it. It felt rushed but then Jerome died again and he sprayed him with that gas. I was happy because I knew we were going to get the joker. And the reveal at the cemetery in my opinion was amazing. I like Jeremiah better because he did what he wanted he blew up the bridges Jerome would have never done that he would have just laughed and then he would just get caught but not Jeremiah and watching him fall into the chemical vat was amazing once again I knew this is it. Jeremiah has always been the joker Jerome was just a little taste of it
They goofed... possibly intentionally, so that they dont upset the gods!
I think Jerome was done better, but Jeremiah has way more potential
Jeremiah looks like Johnny Depp in Dark Shadows.
Yeah lets pretend the whole Jared Leto Joker never happened haha! xD
In Reign of the supermen Cameron played Superboy... which I thought was gonna be weird but worked!
the reason the joker twist happened was simply because Jerome had too much screen time beforehand and for him to be Jerome then suddenly turn to joker would've been extremely underwhelming. The way that Jeremiah was turned into joker was absolutely thrilling in the way that we didn't really know the character too well. So to see him become insane like that was just brilliant. In the case of the joker now seeming like a copycat, I disagree. It shows the legacy of a joker who never got to be but instead was the reason for the rise of Gotham's clown prince of crime.
I love the, both and they are both great but Jeremiah is my favorite live action joker of all time, he is the better joker imo!!!
No I disagree I prefer Jeremiah to Jerome
You need to start watching season 5
Same.
I think it would've been better if Jeremiah was introduced before Jerome came back to life in Season 3, and have him make friends with Bruce way before the transformation happened. It would make for a cool moment seeing Bruce lose his actual best friend to madness
I am really going to miss this wonderful wonderful show ... the best Batman show that doesn't actually have Batman...
May I fix some thing
Instead of that what should happen is Jerome and Bruce have to stop jerhimahi just like you say but it ends different
Jerome and Bruce take down jerhimahi as Jerome takes a gun and walks to jerhimahi on the floor jerhimahi takes out some gas and sprays it at Jerome as Jerome falls to the floor laughing jerhimahi gets up and smirks as he says “Why don’t we finally have one of those family reunions!” Jerome face is burning Bruce runs as jerhimahi picks up Jerome by the arm as Jerome says covering his face now burned with smoke coming off of him “always knew you had it in you brother HAHAHAHAHA” heheheheheheheheheheheheheh jerhimahi giggles now i will stop there but that leaves Jerome and jerhimahi are both the joker and by the end of the series Jerome now has a MORE disfigured face is sent back to Arkham and we see his last apprentice of him in his final joker face why jerhimahi is sent to a mental institution all the way at the end of Gotham he stays there and his 2 final sences his first his getting in a fight with Jerome why be put in the car saying two Jerome “you stay at Arkham to stay and rot why i get to live in a small peaceful luxury I am the successful one” and the other is of him trying to monipolate a cop what I’m trying to set up is Jerome is set to become more crazy and soon forget who he is witch leads him to becoming our og joker
And jerhimahi becomes the killing joke joker being not insane but more intelligent
I love these types of videos
WE NEED JEROME
People who genuinely prefer Jeremiah over Jerome are A) blinded by hype surrounding the Joker in S5, and B) love the way Jeremiah looks.
I hate all this revisionist Jerome hate. "Jerome was just brainless chaotic idiot, Jeremiah is the true calculated mastermind Joker from the comics!1111"
I'm not sure how anyone can think Jerome was stupid. Look at all the things he did, (eg he even out foxed Penguin) how he commanded other villains (with charismatic ease) etc. He was a smart cookie. I also hear how goofy he was....and he was humorous..but goofy? He was damn brutal. Horribly so. Sometimes I question people's perceptions.
Aunty Ro Knows
That’s kind of a different type of smart though. Jerome wouldn’t be able to build those contractions or make the TITAN formula like in the Arkham Games.
@@margaretdaly7302 A different kind? Maybe. The only difference in intelligence I saw was one was educated and one wasn't. Had Jerome been given an extensive education he would have had the knowledge. If anything was really different, it was emotional. Jerome was manic which made it hard for him to concentrate. There was even a scene that illustrated that perfectly. So I really don't see Jeremiah as having greater intelligence.
Aunty Ro Knows
But be honest for a second, do you think Jerome could outsmart Batman and build these traps that he does in the future? Nope.
No, it is a calculated decision to bring the definitive Joker to the live screen. The different variants of this character will most likely be joined in the finale. Just look at the leaked images of the Joker. There's horror, there's sophistication, there's so much about it that feels like Joker. That's just off of the visual you can see. Jeremiah is more like Jack Nicholson, the mobster joker, while Jerome was more of the batshit insane one.
Love your videos but you know what would be great! The Jerome gas that he gave Jeremiah was actually to Jerome to take over Jeremiah body but it doesn’t work until the chemical aced that Jeremiah falls in and then Jerome come back and love your joker(mostly Jerome)videos
The twin brother plot is smothing from a soap opera.
Now they are going to have him fall into liquid at building and turning into the joker complete and different from before in how he looks like the joker and acting like the joker this time
Still think ledger is best cuz he had everything the comics had rlly didn’t think it was to realistic at all.
dam it, I was hoping to watch this video but oh well I'll just wait then I guess
This show needs better writers. Almost all the actors are very talented but are not well used.
Cameron is a perfect example,. Whether you prefer Jeremiah, or Jerome, 'the joker who is not the joker because WB' was not a storyline that was handled well. They spent so much time on Jerome who grew to the audience and suddenly you replace him with his twin who has a very little time to develop.
To cut it short, the show is a beautiful mess with potential. I'm sad it ends but at the same time I'm glad. The made a lot of interesting twists on many characters but almost all went downhill
PS: I LOVED the intro!!!
I like Jeremiah much better as a joker he's smarter more calm and more sinister he also didn't embrace his true nature at first and I think that's makes a better story with him and bruce
Wish they kept Jerome if they wanted to change his personality to be like what we see in Jeremiah have him at some point be with Strange give him amnesia and heal him up and when he gets his memory back he becomes a blend of his amnesia self (Jeremiah) & Jerome
It’s pretty dumb but I can see Gotham doing it I would’ve preferred it than the twin twist we got but what do you all think?
Mediocre Media
I didn’t mind the twin twist. They warned us in advance.
Your intro is just 👌
My theory is Jeremiah will forget which brother he is, and become both. Post vat.
I thought the point of all the people laughing like Jerome on tv was that one of them would become the true Joker.
Video Opinions:
I agree with this Video, I think Jerome & Bruce being forced to working together could be a better Idea than Twin Brother Jeremiah.
The best JOKER would be to make a Genetic Modification from Jerome and Jeremiah by Dr. Strang.
I think Cameron Monaghan is perfect to play in a next Joker Movie, he is the only one who play 2 maybe 3 various Mr.J (Joker in Comics).
Even with it's issues personally I kind of like him. I feel though lacking he could make a great joker. Almost kind of prefer this rendition.
If it were true that the creators of Gotham wanted Cameron in the white makeup without the scars, then why give him the scars in the first place
I think they will fix it by the end of the season and I think everyone including me will eat our words.
Honestly, they should have introduced Jeremiah in S1 and develop his character from there. Introduce Jerome in S4 and start the actual transformation of Jeremiah from there. But instead, we got not bloody joker Jerome overacting for 3 and a half seasons and introduce "The REAL joker" in the final episodes of S4. Bad enough they didn't include Dent, but this joker situation is completely ridiculous!!!
4;47 Yeah right, do you have idea how many times you said the word “perhaps” in this video?
I understand why they did this, it pisses me off but I get it, I think this whole thing would sort of work out if they introduce a third character, at least then they could say 'we were trying to be like the comics'
I get your argument here and obviously Jeremiah's has some problems mainly with how he was introduced I don't deny. But for arguments sake I'm going just point out a few things I took note of in your video. Take note I am more of a Jeremiah fan than Jerome but I 100% understand if someone is the opposite.
In the beginning like [2:18-2:50] Jeremiah was really only denying he was sane, the chemical gas was still working it's affects on him but he was definitely insane. And Jeremiah and Ra's both have a vision for Bruce which is why they worked together he wasn't really being his lacky even if it was Ra's plan they were following, Jeremiah was still following his own agenda it just happen to line up with Ra's own agenda as well.
[6:20-8:18] I completely agree Jerome was a walking cartoon.
[11:40-12:20] Okay a couple things here:
1) saying he's a Gary Stu doesn't really sit right with me because almost every villain in the in Batman mythos is a Gary/Mary Stu to some degree. And I think they were aiming for to make Jeremiah a kinda of antisocial shy person which would fit his past.
2) I think to make the Jeremiah's Joker better they should have introduced him earlier on in season 4 like the half way point and not so late into it and they should have given foreshadowing from previous seasons of his existence. This would have left room for them to explore his character before his fall to madness and build up his relationship with Bruce which is the primary focus of his character after all. I would have love to see Jeremiah and Bruce building a best friend like relationship(which is something neither of them have had) which would have made it more sad when Jeremiah becomes twisted and mad. You can basically drop the running off into the night "I going to be a vigilante Alfred and you can stop me!" And they could have had Bruce working hard to bring Jeremiah back into society and start to build a friendship that would have made all the shippers gone crazy.
[13:00-13:10] I actually like how Jerome's last laugh was the idea that he created the worst villian that would ever plague Gotham; that he was the puppet master to the ultimate creation of the Joker.
[15:20-15:28]. I always think of it like there are two joker cards in a deck and also they wanted to showcase different versions of the joker in the same show which is something that's never been done before so I like Gotham more for that.
[17:08-17:45] okay I get that was just a spitball but no, if there was a larger threat it would be in Jerome's charcater to just laugh and accelerate the threat rather than work with Bruce and then see "oh your not just a good guy, your a really good guy! Let's be friends" like in season 4 Bruce had saved Jerome from his uncle and we saw how Jerome reacted to that.
[18:18-18:50] well the problem with that Ecco idea is that they already changed the Harley Quinn origin and Harley Quinn is supposed to be a head over heels for Joker so making it so she was loyal to Jeremiah then loyal to Jerome just changes her already changed charcater. Plus Jerome had Barbara as his kinda Harley.
[21:00-21:05] oh no there are bigger mistakes I feel.
Jeremiah was a mistake. WE ARE JEROME.
But seriously though, people keep saying that Jerome was just a "chaotic idiot" but they couldve developed a more serious side of him after his first death, they just wasted the opportunity.
Mike Zanin
Opinions, a lot of people like Jeremiah.
Jeremiah feels more like Joker tbh, he didn't come across like Ra's lackey but his own individual.
Jeremiah was perfect, my only beef is him becoming ugly and not getting green hair.
Hopefully this is not his final look
They are doing this to be part of the comic books and by him fall into the liquid that made him the joker so they can get it right this time that it happened that way just in time for batman to be on the show to do both of them
Mark Hamill was far the best Joker.
Today's the BIG DAY!!!
Tbh I think jerome is better than mark hammil
Jerome lives in jeremiah!
Didn't the show creators say neither of them are the real joker?