I think ignoring range in these situations really hurts the argument that destructors are worse. If you have destructors the unit plays completely different. 48" range is most of the table. I think destructors are great given how good our army is at dealing with infantry already. The exterminators are a better all round weapon, but we can fill that role in many other ways.
I think that’s why he started the Enmitic convo with suggesting pairing it with Veil of Darkness! Yeet them out there when the time is right. Also, the counter argument to the huge range is that you’re more likely to expose your Destructors too early and get them deleted at the wrong time.
If we had more anti-vehicle tankbusters this question might be a little tougher. But that said, popping up in front of an Infantry with Lord and Veil of Darkness is genuinely hilarious
Im not sure if you do it but, if you're not, you should include the cover. Most of your shooting will be affected by it and it changes the math in the favor of the high ap weapon.
I'd rather take my doomstalker as anti-infantry because of blast, and Destroyer for Anti-tank but maybe other way around would work better. I always thought of Destroyers as heavy weapons especially I mostly play with friends who have more durable units
I love my heavy gauss destroyers! I have a ton of regular destroyers too that i never run though. I hope the new codex has some sort of destroyer cult faction setup. Would love to run a destroyer themed army thats gives me bonus stuff for doing so.
you should look to their counterparts. If there are better ANTI-Infantry units (like Tesla Immortals or Lokhust Destroyers) and compare them to anti tank like Conopthek doomstalker and doomsday ark...
Way back in 3rd ed (I skipped several editions over the years and I'm just getting back into the game), the Destroyers were anti infantry and the heavy destroyers were anti vehicle/character. It kind of looks like they are still relatively the same. The rapid fire ones were always my go to.
The gauss destructor is just too good. But someday I do want to run a unit of 3 LHD's with the exterminators and have a Lokhust Lord leading them with the veil of darkness. So I can just pop up across the table and hopefully destroy some infantry unit.
this is the meta play right now. but as for destructors, im prefering the doomstalkers right now. LHD are still great. rather run 3x exterminators with lords, they vaporise anything
@@Planet40K Even though they went up in points i still like my Doomsday Arks, so I run a couple of them and some LHD's with destructors. I love doom stalkers and they are pretty cheap so I'll probably run more lists with them at some point, I just wish they hit on 3's normally instead of 4's. However I do like the idea of having my technomancers that are in my lychguard bricks running the canoptek control node and then just keep moving the doomstalkers up with them and in range of the buff, so they can provide some long range support for those units.
That is a good shout. I just think we need it less with destructors. I’d split the unit if I took them. 5+ criticals on 3 shots isn’t great. But an orb and enhancement is
They´re awesome! I currently have only 4, was planning to magnetize them but i think i just get it over with and buy 2 more. So i have 3 of each. They are one of my favorite looks wise, its just a shame you can´t really repose them. Btw, i like the idea of Vailing them, but would that count as having moved? So no +1Hit roll.
@@Planet40K it was pointed out to me that he doesn’t have the stipulation that crypteks have for joining a squad that has a noble character. I don’t think that factors in since that’s for the mustering of the army. On a separate note, would this be paired best with Nemesor Zahndrekh for the potential lethal hits and devastating wounds?
I think im slowly going to play only the Exterminators. The Gauss have let me down too many times: - 3 shots is too variable - IF they dont kill their target, they get exposed to counter attack which will almost always be lethal to them. So... it's an all-or-nothing situation, really. - Exterminators do NOT expose themselves to possibly lethal counter-attack in the first place. What they shoot at, they will almost certainly remove, or cripple enough so that they cant counter-attack efficiently. - Overall, Gauss = "Kamikaze" weapon, they can be terribly effective, but will not be efficient against anything else or might even do nothing at all and just die ; Exterminator = Nemesis weapon, they will most likely shoot many times and remove TONS of models, and do not put themselves in danger in order to do so. Exterminator is a clear winner for me, in this detachment at least :)
We don't need another infantry kill we need more tank killers I bring destroyers if I need the ranged anti vehicle with mobility and don't want the massive space hoggers that are the DS & DA, since most of the Necron army is already anti infantry focused while offering startlingly few heavy weapons outside of massive units and lords of war. And the often horribly random nature of the heaving weapons Necrons DO have while offering almost no special effects despite the insanely advanced level of tech makes it even worse.
Doomstalkers are nowhere near as good anti tank as LHDs. Against T8-13, 2+ vehicles/monsters, Doomstalkers average 1.33 successful wounds, 3 LHDs average 1.71. That's 3-6 (avg 4) damage from the Doomstalker, 6-12 (avg 10.25) damage from the LHDs. That's 2.5x more damage. This is accounting for LHD's lethal hits and rerolling 1s. Also I am assuming sovereign coronal/heavy and no cover, which is more favourable toward the Doomstalker given the lower BS and AP. Without either, it's more like 2.85x more damage. Also, Doomstalkers are hit hard by anything with -1 to damage, e.g. Redemptor Dreadnoughts - 2.66 vs 8.55 avg damage.
@@Planet40K True enough, it is very easy to get them deleted after only 1 round of shooting. It's not too difficult (at least in my experience on the maps I play, may not be true in general) to keep them away from 24" range threats and still shoot their target, but 36" range threats are very difficult to avoid. They need nearby units to screen for deep strike as well. Typical threats I come up against are Dreadnoughts (1 Ballistus tends to kill 1-2 models, Redemptors with plasma tend to kill 1) and things with indirect fire like whirlwinds which tend to kill 1 model when oathed and can't be avoided. That said, long range vehicles fear shooting the LHDs because they are prime candidates for Protocol of the Vengeful Stars, and the 2D3+1 heal from Protocol of the Undying Legions + Reanimator tends to keep them alive even if they are targeted by 2 or 3 vehicles >24" away. I tend to get 2 rounds of shooting out of them, + more shooting from Vengeful Stars.
Should You Choose the Necron Canoptek Spyder? Luxury or Necessity? - ua-cam.com/video/eSy_hxrAJwM/v-deo.html
Stoked to have one in my 1500 point list against gsc with big ole 20 blobs! I love the unit.
I think ignoring range in these situations really hurts the argument that destructors are worse. If you have destructors the unit plays completely different. 48" range is most of the table. I think destructors are great given how good our army is at dealing with infantry already. The exterminators are a better all round weapon, but we can fill that role in many other ways.
I think that’s why he started the Enmitic convo with suggesting pairing it with Veil of Darkness! Yeet them out there when the time is right. Also, the counter argument to the huge range is that you’re more likely to expose your Destructors too early and get them deleted at the wrong time.
Also, more shots will always be more effective against invulnerable saves, so the exterminators are only better against the ark for that reason
If we had more anti-vehicle tankbusters this question might be a little tougher. But that said, popping up in front of an Infantry with Lord and Veil of Darkness is genuinely hilarious
Im not sure if you do it but, if you're not, you should include the cover.
Most of your shooting will be affected by it and it changes the math in the favor of the high ap weapon.
Your correct.
with an exterminator unit, I’d have a lord and move. Still no guarantees.
I'd rather take my doomstalker as anti-infantry because of blast, and Destroyer for Anti-tank but maybe other way around would work better. I always thought of Destroyers as heavy weapons especially I mostly play with friends who have more durable units
I love my heavy gauss destroyers! I have a ton of regular destroyers too that i never run though. I hope the new codex has some sort of destroyer cult faction setup. Would love to run a destroyer themed army thats gives me bonus stuff for doing so.
you should look to their counterparts. If there are better ANTI-Infantry units (like Tesla Immortals or Lokhust Destroyers) and compare them to anti tank like Conopthek doomstalker and doomsday ark...
Way back in 3rd ed (I skipped several editions over the years and I'm just getting back into the game), the Destroyers were anti infantry and the heavy destroyers were anti vehicle/character.
It kind of looks like they are still relatively the same. The rapid fire ones were always my go to.
The gauss destructor is just too good. But someday I do want to run a unit of 3 LHD's with the exterminators and have a Lokhust Lord leading them with the veil of darkness. So I can just pop up across the table and hopefully destroy some infantry unit.
this is the meta play right now. but as for destructors, im prefering the doomstalkers right now. LHD are still great. rather run 3x exterminators with lords, they vaporise anything
@@Planet40K Even though they went up in points i still like my Doomsday Arks, so I run a couple of them and some LHD's with destructors. I love doom stalkers and they are pretty cheap so I'll probably run more lists with them at some point, I just wish they hit on 3's normally instead of 4's. However I do like the idea of having my technomancers that are in my lychguard bricks running the canoptek control node and then just keep moving the doomstalkers up with them and in range of the buff, so they can provide some long range support for those units.
Lokhust Lord with the Destructors just helps them survive, due to Res Orb+Ablator
That is a good shout. I just think we need it less with destructors.
I’d split the unit if I took them. 5+ criticals on 3 shots isn’t great. But an orb and enhancement is
They´re awesome! I currently have only 4, was planning to magnetize them but i think i just get it over with and buy 2 more. So i have 3 of each. They are one of my favorite looks wise, its just a shame you can´t really repose them.
Btw, i like the idea of Vailing them, but would that count as having moved? So no +1Hit roll.
To veil them they would have a leader attached to the unit, so they would get +1 to hit from the detachment rule.
Command protocols 👀
Thank you
Lord plus VOD. It's so obvious what you're doing .
"You can only watch"
Hi 😁
hello again
Can Trazyn the Infinite replace a cryptek that’s co-leading a squad with his surrogate host ability? RAW it seems like it can be argued
Great question.
I think he can? What is the argument against ?
@@Planet40K it was pointed out to me that he doesn’t have the stipulation that crypteks have for joining a squad that has a noble character. I don’t think that factors in since that’s for the mustering of the army.
On a separate note, would this be paired best with Nemesor Zahndrekh for the potential lethal hits and devastating wounds?
I think im slowly going to play only the Exterminators. The Gauss have let me down too many times:
- 3 shots is too variable
- IF they dont kill their target, they get exposed to counter attack which will almost always be lethal to them. So... it's an all-or-nothing situation, really.
- Exterminators do NOT expose themselves to possibly lethal counter-attack in the first place. What they shoot at, they will almost certainly remove, or cripple enough so that they cant counter-attack efficiently.
- Overall, Gauss = "Kamikaze" weapon, they can be terribly effective, but will not be efficient against anything else or might even do nothing at all and just die ; Exterminator = Nemesis weapon, they will most likely shoot many times and remove TONS of models, and do not put themselves in danger in order to do so.
Exterminator is a clear winner for me, in this detachment at least :)
Why choose between them? Just use both, and let out a mechanical laugh as you do a bit of pest control.
prefer doomstalkers right now as anti tank
@@Planet40K i have a long history of rolling very poorly when determining how many attacks i get, so i have a pet peeve against swingy things. 😅
Ha. They are slightly better now. But very cheap 1 has a min of 2 shots. Without blast.
Lhd has a max of 3
Do you have a recommendation for a 1250 points list, I have a little friendly tournament and could use some help 😉
We don't need another infantry kill we need more tank killers
I bring destroyers if I need the ranged anti vehicle with mobility and don't want the massive space hoggers that are the DS & DA, since most of the Necron army is already anti infantry focused while offering startlingly few heavy weapons outside of massive units and lords of war.
And the often horribly random nature of the heaving weapons Necrons DO have while offering almost no special effects despite the insanely advanced level of tech makes it even worse.
Why not both?
nothing wrong with both
@@Planet40K can you do a video where you make the Lokhust Heavies modular between the two options?
Yes.
Can we get a 1000 point list?
Ehhhhh. It's also just a walking sniper for vehicles at longer range. Not enough youtubers bring that up.
hm... both good.
Doomstalkers are nowhere near as good anti tank as LHDs.
Against T8-13, 2+ vehicles/monsters, Doomstalkers average 1.33 successful wounds, 3 LHDs average 1.71. That's 3-6 (avg 4) damage from the Doomstalker, 6-12 (avg 10.25) damage from the LHDs.
That's 2.5x more damage.
This is accounting for LHD's lethal hits and rerolling 1s. Also I am assuming sovereign coronal/heavy and no cover, which is more favourable toward the Doomstalker given the lower BS and AP. Without either, it's more like 2.85x more damage.
Also, Doomstalkers are hit hard by anything with -1 to damage, e.g. Redemptor Dreadnoughts - 2.66 vs 8.55 avg damage.
I don’t think you fully took durability into consideration there. Dead destroyers do zero damage
@@Planet40K True enough, it is very easy to get them deleted after only 1 round of shooting. It's not too difficult (at least in my experience on the maps I play, may not be true in general) to keep them away from 24" range threats and still shoot their target, but 36" range threats are very difficult to avoid. They need nearby units to screen for deep strike as well.
Typical threats I come up against are Dreadnoughts (1 Ballistus tends to kill 1-2 models, Redemptors with plasma tend to kill 1) and things with indirect fire like whirlwinds which tend to kill 1 model when oathed and can't be avoided.
That said, long range vehicles fear shooting the LHDs because they are prime candidates for Protocol of the Vengeful Stars, and the 2D3+1 heal from Protocol of the Undying Legions + Reanimator tends to keep them alive even if they are targeted by 2 or 3 vehicles >24" away. I tend to get 2 rounds of shooting out of them, + more shooting from Vengeful Stars.
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