wow great video! like everyone is saying, subgrouping the kick/bass makes so much sense honestly your whole channel is awesome, you are a great teacher. really appreciate you sharing your knowledge
Very cool hearing the drum sub without the kick, it really glues the kit together! I'm going to try that, and have the kick and bass in a separate sub, thanks for the great advice and demo
Well if you are Record Producer I would say Protools is not really necessary a requirement esp in today's age of cross platforms. As more more Producers are becoming multifaceted of different skill sets oppose to only directing and guiding the project, Many Producer's these days are filling the role as the Engineer which isn't uncommon in rock genres. Here's a great example, Grammy Award Winning Producer Oak Felder produces all of his records entirely in Logic Pro as he said he doesn't use a Recording Engineer. Hes quit similar to me acutally that wears both the Producer and Engineers hat. The song Sorry Not Sorry that Oak Felder produced said he cut Demi Lovatos vocals entirely in Logic in his own private studio and cut some more vocals at another studio. He would just take his laptop and rent out a studio when ever needed with his own equipment and interface and track vocals himself for his clients. He would start the mix, bounce down to STEMS and pass the session off to a Mixing Engineer. Most modern DAWs are cross platform capable with each other using the new AAF file format. I use Presonus Studio One myself as I can littery load Protools sessions.
@@eman0828 I agree Protools is not necessary as a music producer. But if you're an engineer in a commercial recording studio, (like Tyler) you still have to know Protools. When I book out Quad Recording for a vocal session, I always use Logic. But in a few of the rooms, I think they only have Logic in there for me. LOL. So the majority of sessions are still done on Protools. But from a quality standpoint? No difference!
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Yeah I hear ya. Yeah I know some Engineers that work for commercial facilities that act as Producers as well. Some times roles get morphed together that it's one of the same person. It's either the Producer acts as the Engineer or verse vica. Producer Ron Fair pretty much mastered all the roles as a a Producer, Arranger, Conductor, Musician, Recording Engineer, A&R, Executive Producer.. Hes like the Quincy Jones of this generation.
Awesome content and very valuable information like always. Thank you so much Arty for sharing your wisdom and light with us!!! Blessings for you always!!!
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Wow Arty, thank you so much, oh well you have covered many things on all your videos, but if its possible and not too much too ask...a video showing your approach on making the mix elements more "glued" and sounding like a "whole" and not just independent tracks put together that would be great. Or another good video would be on how to be able to get a bass (instrument) that translates well in small speakers or systems that are not well suited for bass frequencies. Specially on the Pop/Rock style. Once again thanks for all you do and I hope you and your loved ones are safe through this hard times.
Great tutorial work, Arty! I get the concept now of "grouping" inside of "grouping". One question that I have though, that I think will further unlock the whole thing for me is: If I send various channels to a mixbus via "send on faders" on my digital console, do I set those channel faders to a Unity volume like say, -10db, then turn off the "sends on faders" and mix the channels into the mixbus? Or, do I do the mixing while the "sends on faders" feature is active to that mixbus. Just trying to establish a repeatable workflow...thanks,
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup I will, the channel is for my daughter, she's really interested in technology, so I figured I would come up with a cool name she could use when she's ready.
Great stuff! Question: Did you have a Skylab Studio in NJ back in the 90’s. I remember recording at a place called Skylab with my band Heather back in the day.
Not in NJ. We were always in the Times Square area in New York, since '94. But I remember there being a Skylab studio in NJ, and Florida. I actually have a first cousin David Asher (Brooklyn)👍
Hi Roslyly, that is a great question, and I was thinking of addressing that in the video, but I just decided to leave it out. The answer for me is no, most of the time. The reason is that you're processing the subgroup, and you may not want to process the reverb in the same way. (Though sometimes, I may try popping it on there and it works) But if you're processing a group, but within that group you're also using individual busses on certain channels to send to a reverb, then when you mute the group, those busses will still continue send to the reverb . So you'll get that reverb bleed from those indie channels. So for automation and muting sake, I would GROUP (not subgroup) those channels in the mixer. So when you mute the subgroup, the reverb will also mute. That's assuming you're using a dedicated reverb for that subgroup. Am I making sense here? :)
Since you said sending the Kick to the Drum Group can cause over compression on other elements like the Clap, wouldn’t another option be to use a compressor that has a HPF on it to filter out the bottom being compressed?
Yes, sort of. You wouldn't want to filter out the lows from the compressor, So it would have to be on the sidechain input. But I find it easier in situations where I need a crazy loud kick drum, like most music today, to just leave it out of that compressor. I might still have a stereo compressor on my master bus, which will still help glue it all together a little more. But whatever works and sounds good is right👍thanks for your comment.
I'd always used stacking. But that was primarily for organizing my tracks. Stacking also creates bus and routes all the (selected) tracks to the bus. Which came handy while processing the stack as a whole. Is there any difference stacking has with subgrouping?
I messed with stacking just a bit, and in the mode you're talking about it's pretty similar. But I was trying to make this more a universal DAW thing, and so I avoided the stacking option in logic to explain it. But great point, and thanks for your comment 👍
Sub grouping cuts a lot of time esp when have layers of stacked vocals. I've been routing vocal tracks to sub bus channels for years esp background vocals. I also mix through outboard as well with my Hybrid setup and print back into my DAW. Hybrid seems to be the new standard now that those large analog consoles are phasing out.
Yep. I remember writing an article about hybrid mixing for Home Recording magazine, about 20 years ago! Analog just gives you that soft clipping that justs makes it all sound more solid.
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Yeah esp you can drive pre amps and compressors pretty hard. I still prefer hardware over plugins any day that will last you a life time. The UAD stuff is great as well probably closest hardware emulation out there. But UAD plugins can become a money pit over time buying plugins and then they become obsolete after so many updates and OS Upgrades, you have to buy a new Apollo and plugins all over again. I only replace my interface like once every 10 years or so. I use the MOTU AVB converters that is the core of my Hybrid setup. Great sounding converters that are comparable to Apogee. Had a Quartet for a little while for my mobile rig but the Motu drivers are rock solid for sure.
@@eman0828 Truth!!! Maybe it's time to clean up my old Focusrite isa215 and Urie 1178, and start running things through there again. You got my wheels turning here! Thanks. :)
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Nice!! I have the Focusrite ISA two in my rack. It's a nice clean pre amp that use mostly on anything that's accoustic although it's not the Rupert Neve designed ones just a reissued version. It's too bad that only 10 those Focusrite studio consoles were ever made. I'm sure those will probably be around alot long than the SSLs because they are so rare and have a sound.
I’ve always wanted to implement this in my workflow but I always think.. usually I process each track individually and compress vocals with different settings so how could I still get the same outcome whilst using groups?
It's another tool, not an either or. If you have 20 tracks of background vocals, I would not want to process each of them individually, I get better results by processing them as a whole, but I may put autotune on a few of them, or fix anything on a track that needs fixing. But overall compression, eq, and effects would be done as a whole. But....when working with live drums, yes, I process each track individually, and then still throw them into a group, and process them again as a group, which helps glue it all together. Play around until you're comfortable with the process, and then you'll have a better idea where and when to use it. Hope this helps :)
Hello , I wanted advice ... I'm from South Africa and I've always wanted to produce for alot of artists like from the US but I feel cause of where I come from it feels impossible. Is it possible for me to ever produce music for rappers even from the US
Sure it is. But in the rap world you have to come up with tracks that will appeal to your market. If you're good, keep at it, and hopefully something will go viral and get the attention of some famous rappers. Or there is a hundred other ways that it works for people. You just have to figure it out. There's no road map. Good luck!
![How to Mix Background Vocals and Harmonies like the Pros [2023] Step by Step Tutorial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZxGItx2cPh0/mqdefault.jpg)
wow great video! like everyone is saying, subgrouping the kick/bass makes so much sense
honestly your whole channel is awesome, you are a great teacher. really appreciate you sharing your knowledge
Arty, please keep making videos! Your channel and real world experience is a treasure for us.
Very cool hearing the drum sub without the kick, it really glues the kit together! I'm going to try that, and have the kick and bass in a separate sub, thanks for the great advice and demo
Thanks so much for sharing - straight forward, clear, and to the point!
Another great video Arty, thank you!
Never thought about subgrouping the bass and kick. Makes sense.
Did you try it yet? Let me know how it works for you. Thanks Mello.
Learned so much from this channel in 2 days. Major tips. Running out of videos to watch. Had to hit that bell. Waiting on you Arty.
What an excellent video, thankyou brother!👏🏾
would love to see a deeper dive into reverb sub groups and applying to tracks . eg rooms, instruments, vocal types, extra sparkle / sfx ...
Great video man! Thanks so much for sharing the knowledge!! Keep up the good work
Thanks Willy. Yep, more on the way. What would you want to see a video about?
Thank you so much! Greetings from Slovakia!
Very helpful!! Thank you so much sir.
Thanks for the video :)
Insanely helpful insight to the way we otherwise would NORMALLY look at sub grouping...🤓👍🎉🎉Thsnks trillions Arty.... 🤓
Greetings from Brazil!! Thank you so much for the lesson!! Very helpful!!!
Brazil!!! I love your BBQ! Thanks so much, and please check out the rest of the channel if you have a chance. 👍
I really like your videos! Thanks for the great info!!
Thanks Chris, I appreciate the comment. More videos soon. :)
u saving my life
Thanks for the tips! Really like your examples. Easy to understand. I finally made the jump to Logic. Now I'll pick it up faster 😃
You still gotta stay with Protools as a studio engineer. But I guess for your own productions it's definitely easier.
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Totally! Gotta be "D.a.w"tilingual.
Well if you are Record Producer I would say Protools is not really necessary a requirement esp in today's age of cross platforms. As more more Producers are becoming multifaceted of different skill sets oppose to only directing and guiding the project, Many Producer's these days are filling the role as the Engineer which isn't uncommon in rock genres. Here's a great example, Grammy Award Winning Producer Oak Felder produces all of his records entirely in Logic Pro as he said he doesn't use a Recording Engineer. Hes quit similar to me acutally that wears both the Producer and Engineers hat. The song Sorry Not Sorry that Oak Felder produced said he cut Demi Lovatos vocals entirely in Logic in his own private studio and cut some more vocals at another studio. He would just take his laptop and rent out a studio when ever needed with his own equipment and interface and track vocals himself for his clients. He would start the mix, bounce down to STEMS and pass the session off to a Mixing Engineer. Most modern DAWs are cross platform capable with each other using the new AAF file format. I use Presonus Studio One myself as I can littery load Protools sessions.
@@eman0828 I agree Protools is not necessary as a music producer. But if you're an engineer in a commercial recording studio, (like Tyler) you still have to know Protools. When I book out Quad Recording for a vocal session, I always use Logic. But in a few of the rooms, I think they only have Logic in there for me. LOL. So the majority of sessions are still done on Protools. But from a quality standpoint? No difference!
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Yeah I hear ya. Yeah I know some Engineers that work for commercial facilities that act as Producers as well. Some times roles get morphed together that it's one of the same person. It's either the Producer acts as the Engineer or verse vica. Producer Ron Fair pretty much mastered all the roles as a a Producer, Arranger, Conductor, Musician, Recording Engineer, A&R, Executive Producer.. Hes like the Quincy Jones of this generation.
Underrated channel
Thanks Alex! So please share it! We're trying to build it up now. 👍
I hope we can see alot more videos soon!
Thanks, and we have another one coming next week. My favorite one so far so stay tuned. 👍
Awesome content and very valuable information like always. Thank you so much Arty for sharing your wisdom and light with us!!! Blessings for you always!!!
Thanks Jose. I appreciate that. What subject would you like to see on a video?
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Wow Arty, thank you so much, oh well you have covered many things on all your videos, but if its possible and not too much too ask...a video showing your approach on making the mix elements more "glued" and sounding like a "whole" and not just independent tracks put together that would be great. Or another good video would be on how to be able to get a bass (instrument) that translates well in small speakers or systems that are not well suited for bass frequencies. Specially on the Pop/Rock style. Once again thanks for all you do and I hope you and your loved ones are safe through this hard times.
Thank you from Japan!
Sir you have just earned a new follower! you teaching methods are extremely effective.
Hi Jorge. Glad my way of teaching resonates with you!!! Thanks so much for your comment 🍺 Cheers
Great tutorial work, Arty! I get the concept now of "grouping" inside of "grouping". One question that I have though, that I think will further unlock the whole thing for me is: If I send various channels to a mixbus via "send on faders" on my digital console, do I set those channel faders to a Unity volume like say, -10db, then turn off the "sends on faders" and mix the channels into the mixbus? Or, do I do the mixing while the "sends on faders" feature is active to that mixbus. Just trying to establish a repeatable workflow...thanks,
Awesome video, thanks
Thanks! You have an awesome name for your channel! You should follow through with it. 👍
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup I will, the channel is for my daughter, she's really interested in technology, so I figured I would come up with a cool name she could use when she's ready.
Thank u Sir!
good content txs
great video, just a quick question, do you just exclude the kick SAMPLE from the drum group? or both sample and live kick? Thanks again
Great stuff! Question: Did you have a Skylab Studio in NJ back in the 90’s. I remember recording at a place called Skylab with my band Heather back in the day.
Not in NJ. We were always in the Times Square area in New York, since '94. But I remember there being a Skylab studio in NJ, and Florida. I actually have a first cousin David Asher (Brooklyn)👍
Very helpful info! Thanks so much! Do you also put FX busses used for vocal for instance, to subgroup?
Hi Roslyly, that is a great question, and I was thinking of addressing that in the video, but I just decided to leave it out. The answer for me is no, most of the time. The reason is that you're processing the subgroup, and you may not want to process the reverb in the same way. (Though sometimes, I may try popping it on there and it works) But if you're processing a group, but within that group you're also using individual busses on certain channels to send to a reverb, then when you mute the group, those busses will still continue send to the reverb . So you'll get that reverb bleed from those indie channels. So for automation and muting sake, I would GROUP (not subgroup) those channels in the mixer. So when you mute the subgroup, the reverb will also mute. That's assuming you're using a dedicated reverb for that subgroup. Am I making sense here? :)
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Thanks so much Skye! Yes it definitely makes sense! Thanks again for clearing up the puzzle of a beginner =)
please, for the love of jimi hendrix, don’t stop making these videos!
Thanks! And yes, Jimi is the reason I'm in music! Please share the video and the channel. As long as it's growing we'll keep making videos :-)
Since you said sending the Kick to the Drum Group can cause over compression on other elements like the Clap, wouldn’t another option be to use a compressor that has a HPF on it to filter out the bottom being compressed?
Yes, sort of. You wouldn't want to filter out the lows from the compressor, So it would have to be on the sidechain input. But I find it easier in situations where I need a crazy loud kick drum, like most music today, to just leave it out of that compressor. I might still have a stereo compressor on my master bus, which will still help glue it all together a little more. But whatever works and sounds good is right👍thanks for your comment.
YOu are great
Do you add plug ins to each single instrument or do you add it just to the aux track
I'd always used stacking. But that was primarily for organizing my tracks. Stacking also creates bus and routes all the (selected) tracks to the bus. Which came handy while processing the stack as a whole. Is there any difference stacking has with subgrouping?
I messed with stacking just a bit, and in the mode you're talking about it's pretty similar. But I was trying to make this more a universal DAW thing, and so I avoided the stacking option in logic to explain it. But great point, and thanks for your comment 👍
Subbed, still here ☝️❤👊.
Sub grouping cuts a lot of time esp when have layers of stacked vocals. I've been routing vocal tracks to sub bus channels for years esp background vocals. I also mix through outboard as well with my Hybrid setup and print back into my DAW. Hybrid seems to be the new standard now that those large analog consoles are phasing out.
Yep. I remember writing an article about hybrid mixing for Home Recording magazine, about 20 years ago! Analog just gives you that soft clipping that justs makes it all sound more solid.
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Yeah esp you can drive pre amps and compressors pretty hard. I still prefer hardware over plugins any day that will last you a life time. The UAD stuff is great as well probably closest hardware emulation out there. But UAD plugins can become a money pit over time buying plugins and then they become obsolete after so many updates and OS Upgrades, you have to buy a new Apollo and plugins all over again. I only replace my interface like once every 10 years or so. I use the MOTU AVB converters that is the core of my Hybrid setup. Great sounding converters that are comparable to Apogee. Had a Quartet for a little while for my mobile rig but the Motu drivers are rock solid for sure.
@@eman0828 Truth!!! Maybe it's time to clean up my old Focusrite isa215 and Urie 1178, and start running things through there again. You got my wheels turning here! Thanks. :)
@@SkyeLabMusicGroup Nice!! I have the Focusrite ISA two in my rack. It's a nice clean pre amp that use mostly on anything that's accoustic although it's not the Rupert Neve designed ones just a reissued version. It's too bad that only 10 those Focusrite studio consoles were ever made. I'm sure those will probably be around alot long than the SSLs because they are so rare and have a sound.
I’ve always wanted to implement this in my workflow but I always think.. usually I process each track individually and compress vocals with different settings so how could I still get the same outcome whilst using groups?
It's another tool, not an either or. If you have 20 tracks of background vocals, I would not want to process each of them individually, I get better results by processing them as a whole, but I may put autotune on a few of them, or fix anything on a track that needs fixing. But overall compression, eq, and effects would be done as a whole. But....when working with live drums, yes, I process each track individually, and then still throw them into a group, and process them again as a group, which helps glue it all together. Play around until you're comfortable with the process, and then you'll have a better idea where and when to use it. Hope this helps :)
Hello , I wanted advice ... I'm from South Africa and I've always wanted to produce for alot of artists like from the US but I feel cause of where I come from it feels impossible. Is it possible for me to ever produce music for rappers even from the US
Sure it is. But in the rap world you have to come up with tracks that will appeal to your market. If you're good, keep at it, and hopefully something will go viral and get the attention of some famous rappers. Or there is a hundred other ways that it works for people. You just have to figure it out. There's no road map. Good luck!
I do this for everything, lol.
X 😐😚😙😙😙☺😶
Stack track does that also
Yep, but that could be more confusing if you're not using Logic. But good point! Thanks for sharing. 👍
Man, I was sending the kick and bass to a group and then sending that group to the drum bus.... now I know not to.
Many people still do. How's it working out for you this way?
No VCA? 🤦🏼♀
? Not sure what you mean