Quinn, you're a wise man. I go further, however. I like to see impairments as simply part of life's infinite tapestry and not weaknesses at all. The fact that I can't use my optics, or that my mind works differntly, just means I'm different, not lesser. Unfortunately I think there is a persistent and over-arching belief that we are somehow non-people who don't, or can't experience the same depth of feeling, understanding or humanity as others and are therefore not worthy of the same consideration. That word, 'invalid', is a powerful one indeed.
When a person has an ankle in a plaster "we" see it, but what if the "others" don't see it and are only motivated to making concession out of fear of being ostracized from society instead of genuine empathy? To be clear, I don't believe "others" are unempathetic, but I do think that for "them" the motivation is divided between these two instincts, while for "us" the primary motive is empathy, because "we" don't put much stock into social standing in the first place.
There is one form of ableism that I don't think you've covered here. That's the act of ignoring or denying requests for accommodation because "You don't really need that. All you have to do is try harder." Doctors are especially guilty of this, in my experience. And, shockingly, so are many people who work with the disabled in agencies that are supposed to help them. It teaches the disabled person that their lived experiences are not valid in the eyes of the abled, and can often lead them to doubt themselves.
Thanks for commenting. There's only a few examples that can be included in a 10 or 11 minute video so I concentrated on a few of the more subtle, less blatant yet still commonplace expressions of ableism. More examples lay on the virtual "cutting room floor" than actually made it into the final cut😉 There's plenty more to be said on this topic.
@@Autistamatic Yes, it's a huge topic, and very difficult to cover all aspects in such a short time. No criticism of you was intended. I just wanted to throw my experience in with the comments so that someone who might be experiencing the same thing but didn't recognize it for what it was would get some validation for their feelings about it. The more we know about things like this, the better prepared we will be to assert our rights with the "professionals" we encounter in our lives. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy your channel.
While I appreciate the sentiment about encouraging others not to be ableist by inviting us to social events, from a personal experience, social events are a hotbed of potential problems. I would, honestly, prefer not to be invited sometimes, or at least have my decision respected when I say no thanks and decide to opt out. The very assumption that social event = fun and enjoyable is surely, in itself, ableist. With an invisible disability, and a very different lived experience, interaction is often no fun at all, especially when you feel people don’t believe you. I am very selective about whom I want to spend time with. I often feel that I would rather be alone - at least no-one is there to be disrespectful or patronising to me if I’m on my own! I need more people in my life with similar invisible conditions or disabilities.
Hi Joanne. This is the first video I've done on the channel which isn't specific to autism. It's such a broad topic I've pitched it at anyone with an interest or stake in disability. I'm not a "social animal" either, but I feel that the latter point you make about respecting your reasons for declining is important. To decline out of choice is fine and should be understood without question or judgement, but to not be invited because the host isn't willing to accommodate or thinks that a disabled/neurodivergent person would spoil their event is ableism.
I don’t know if I am neurodivergent or not, although suspect I might be. I do, however, have an under-active thyroid gland from birth, hence an invisible disability which has given me particular issues with balance, co-ordination and stamina all my life, particularly as a child. PE was an utter ‘mare for me at school. I also have difficulties with remembering people, even though my memory is very good for other things. I will recognise a face, know they look familiar, but can’t remember who the person is or where I know them from. This adds to my social difficulties. I hate having these problems, especially when people don’t get that it’s genuine and I am NOT messing around, I legitimately struggle with these issues. The accusations I get are extremely hurtful and make me want to avoid people even more!
@@joannedixon-jackson7348 thanks for elaborating. Interestingly my mother had an underactive thyroid which led to me going through testing of my own back in the 70s and again in the early 80s before I was DXed autistic. If it had been left to my doctors back then I doubt I'd have found out I was autistic for many years.
I hope things get better for you. Know that there's a whole community out there fighting for things to improve even if many of us don't feel able to actively do the fighting
Want to point out the ableism of pointing out someone "falling off a table in a drunken stupor" is also ableism - implying that this is not an accident due to disability i.e. substance use disorder, and the lack of coordination when under the influence. Implying also intellectualism. Not trying to shame about it, but point it out, we need to be more aware of the prejudices we have and how it colors our judgements & perceptions. Perhaps a better example would be a ski slope accident, pretty common, and happens even to experienced skiers.
You've picked up on something that was quite intentional. The point being made is not a personal value judgement but a reflection of "typical" value judgement. In the example you've given as contrast to the choice made, your skier could have had their accident due to disability but also, as you point out, experienced skiers without disabilities have accidents too. In the video, yes it could be reflective of a substance abuse problem, but people who don't have an addiction are prone to drinking too much on occasion and having accidents as a consequence, or misjudge their capacity, or allow themselves to be peer pressured, as could I suppose an inexperienced skier attempt a hazardous slope beyond their competence either because of over confidence, or maybe THEY were peer pressured.... I found it very difficult to find any kind of accident that couldn't be connoted as potentially a result of disability, recklessness, bravado or misjudgement, so I turned the problem on it's head & decided to illustrate it. Every example I thought of came up with at least 2 and disability was always 1. With a deadline to meet, I fell upon using an example that most people would have experienced or witnessed and commonly summons a value judgement. It's the hope of any creator to have their viewers reflect on what we've described in their understanding of how they may see their own experience and the thought that they may reflect on their own values having been pricked earlier by the "drunken stupor" shaped the decision to use it. You're the first person to have made that connection, but not in the way I anticipated and it made me smile. Thank you😊
I feel like I've internalized a lot of ableism which constantly shows up in my internal narrative towards myself. For example: being slower at things such as putting on my boots and snow pants in elementary school led to a lot of mocking. "I wish Michael was a tape so we could put him in a VCR and fast forward" was a common one. Nowadays I feel frequent, over-whelming pressure to go fast, including when nobody else is present in the situation. If nobody else is around, the pressure must be coming from my own thoughts, baked in from hearing the message to hurry-up for years.
Invalid doesn’t mean ‘not having value’. It derives from the Latin ‘validus’ meaning ‘strong’. Hence ‘in’ meaning not and ‘validus’ meaning strong so ‘not strong’. This is still an excellent video. I just love words…😊
Etymology is a pet passion of my own too. It's intriguing to note how "valid" has progressed from describing strength to relating whether or not something has any objective value. There's a lesson in there somewhere🤔
@One Guy Named Ivan I wasn't let go. Just frequently passed up for promotion in favor of less experienced and less knowledgeable people. They kept giving me excuse after excuse until this last time the boss said "well sometimes you can come across rude without intending too..." And when I tried to explain to him that being on the Spectrum I can't control my pitch or tone of voice he cut me off and told me that I needed to take more responsibility for my actions
Please consider content re "internalized-ablesim'' if you've inclination* ;your viewpoint potentially beneficial and 'build/follow-on' this video well I think. edit2add: *argh shudda waited fer your video to complete 👍✌️
I don’t understand why, being diagnosed aspergers, i get branded ABLEIST, for things other auties and aspies have spoken AROUND me, whilst i have said nothing and do not feel the same way. I am autistic; my diagnosis was aspergers and i will not change the truth of that to keep the activists happy. For what its worth, i feel my diagnosis was done inappropriately and assumed i have far less difficulty than i do. I am angered by this
Not sure if I'm actually understanding your problem. What is it these "activists" are doing that are angering you? The only thing that I would ask you to consider is that is it worth it to you to have a a diagnosis named after and Nazi? Especially a Nazi that determined whether or not people like Us got to live if they could work in the war machine factories
@@hailsateen9219 i don’t understand what you are asking of me. I can’t “rediagnose myself” nor am i capable of stating mistruths about what my official diagnosis. Your concerns are not my concerns; this is quite obvious.
@@gonnfishy2987 you can update it to what the latest DSM says if you want to. I was asking why you're angry about what the activists are saying to you. I'm asking you to address your attachment to the label. I haven't addressed any concerns at all I don't know why you think I have. Just trying to give a well thought out perspective.
@@hailsateen9219 does it take money? How do i get “reclassified”?? I am angry that i haven’t found a way until you mentioned there might be one. The activists? The ones shouting at ME about function labels and “why are you attached/why can’t you just live with ASD” when I’m not even the one chanpioning that label-- I’m trying to discuss the ways it was useful in making distinctions about early development and best teaching strategies, whilst resenting that it is causing me to be “vilified” For something i didnt choose. Following?
@@gonnfishy2987 if you're talking to others about your disability you can just say ASD. For any professionals that need to know about your diagnosis I would tell them what is actually written down. I'm going to try and explain the issues with functioning labels and I hope you understand that I am not yelling at you. The problem with functioning labels is that function as it is described in psychological texts is the ability to appear neurotypical and behave in a neurotypical way. This does not address needs of autistic people. It demeans people that cannot communicate in typical ways and have higher support needs. I understand that you feel put off by people that came at you with an aggressive tone but you at least try to look at what I have brought to you
Wow, I've never made the link between greed and ableism before but of course it makes sense!
The founders
"All men are created equal"
Also the founders
"Let's make some people are 3/5ths equal"
Quinn, you're a wise man. I go further, however. I like to see impairments as simply part of life's infinite tapestry and not weaknesses at all. The fact that I can't use my optics, or that my mind works differntly, just means I'm different, not lesser. Unfortunately I think there is a persistent and over-arching belief that we are somehow non-people who don't, or can't experience the same depth of feeling, understanding or humanity as others and are therefore not worthy of the same consideration. That word, 'invalid', is a powerful one indeed.
When a person has an ankle in a plaster "we" see it, but what if the "others" don't see it and are only motivated to making concession out of fear of being ostracized from society instead of genuine empathy? To be clear, I don't believe "others" are unempathetic, but I do think that for "them" the motivation is divided between these two instincts, while for "us" the primary motive is empathy, because "we" don't put much stock into social standing in the first place.
It's a valid point. It's an interesting exercise to look at ableism from a third party perspective.
There is one form of ableism that I don't think you've covered here. That's the act of ignoring or denying requests for accommodation because "You don't really need that. All you have to do is try harder." Doctors are especially guilty of this, in my experience. And, shockingly, so are many people who work with the disabled in agencies that are supposed to help them. It teaches the disabled person that their lived experiences are not valid in the eyes of the abled, and can often lead them to doubt themselves.
Thanks for commenting. There's only a few examples that can be included in a 10 or 11 minute video so I concentrated on a few of the more subtle, less blatant yet still commonplace expressions of ableism. More examples lay on the virtual "cutting room floor" than actually made it into the final cut😉
There's plenty more to be said on this topic.
@@Autistamatic Yes, it's a huge topic, and very difficult to cover all aspects in such a short time. No criticism of you was intended. I just wanted to throw my experience in with the comments so that someone who might be experiencing the same thing but didn't recognize it for what it was would get some validation for their feelings about it. The more we know about things like this, the better prepared we will be to assert our rights with the "professionals" we encounter in our lives. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy your channel.
While I appreciate the sentiment about encouraging others not to be ableist by inviting us to social events, from a personal experience, social events are a hotbed of potential problems. I would, honestly, prefer not to be invited sometimes, or at least have my decision respected when I say no thanks and decide to opt out. The very assumption that social event = fun and enjoyable is surely, in itself, ableist. With an invisible disability, and a very different lived experience, interaction is often no fun at all, especially when you feel people don’t believe you. I am very selective about whom I want to spend time with. I often feel that I would rather be alone - at least no-one is there to be disrespectful or patronising to me if I’m on my own! I need more people in my life with similar invisible conditions or disabilities.
Hi Joanne. This is the first video I've done on the channel which isn't specific to autism. It's such a broad topic I've pitched it at anyone with an interest or stake in disability. I'm not a "social animal" either, but I feel that the latter point you make about respecting your reasons for declining is important. To decline out of choice is fine and should be understood without question or judgement, but to not be invited because the host isn't willing to accommodate or thinks that a disabled/neurodivergent person would spoil their event is ableism.
I don’t know if I am neurodivergent or not, although suspect I might be. I do, however, have an under-active thyroid gland from birth, hence an invisible disability which has given me particular issues with balance, co-ordination and stamina all my life, particularly as a child. PE was an utter ‘mare for me at school. I also have difficulties with remembering people, even though my memory is very good for other things. I will recognise a face, know they look familiar, but can’t remember who the person is or where I know them from. This adds to my social difficulties. I hate having these problems, especially when people don’t get that it’s genuine and I am NOT messing around, I legitimately struggle with these issues. The accusations I get are extremely hurtful and make me want to avoid people even more!
@@joannedixon-jackson7348 thanks for elaborating. Interestingly my mother had an underactive thyroid which led to me going through testing of my own back in the 70s and again in the early 80s before I was DXed autistic. If it had been left to my doctors back then I doubt I'd have found out I was autistic for many years.
'The long list already' is my life continuing. I am a sad person and I mean every day is a battle. I tried so hard. I failed.
I hope things get better for you. Know that there's a whole community out there fighting for things to improve even if many of us don't feel able to actively do the fighting
@@cosmosisrose Thanks, that is nice, however I am too old for any benefits now. The world is getting crazier every day.
Another excellent history lesson in modern context! 💜
Want to point out the ableism of pointing out someone "falling off a table in a drunken stupor" is also ableism - implying that this is not an accident due to disability i.e. substance use disorder, and the lack of coordination when under the influence. Implying also intellectualism. Not trying to shame about it, but point it out, we need to be more aware of the prejudices we have and how it colors our judgements & perceptions.
Perhaps a better example would be a ski slope accident, pretty common, and happens even to experienced skiers.
You've picked up on something that was quite intentional. The point being made is not a personal value judgement but a reflection of "typical" value judgement.
In the example you've given as contrast to the choice made, your skier could have had their accident due to disability but also, as you point out, experienced skiers without disabilities have accidents too. In the video, yes it could be reflective of a substance abuse problem, but people who don't have an addiction are prone to drinking too much on occasion and having accidents as a consequence, or misjudge their capacity, or allow themselves to be peer pressured, as could I suppose an inexperienced skier attempt a hazardous slope beyond their competence either because of over confidence, or maybe THEY were peer pressured....
I found it very difficult to find any kind of accident that couldn't be connoted as potentially a result of disability, recklessness, bravado or misjudgement, so I turned the problem on it's head & decided to illustrate it. Every example I thought of came up with at least 2 and disability was always 1. With a deadline to meet, I fell upon using an example that most people would have experienced or witnessed and commonly summons a value judgement.
It's the hope of any creator to have their viewers reflect on what we've described in their understanding of how they may see their own experience and the thought that they may reflect on their own values having been pricked earlier by the "drunken stupor" shaped the decision to use it.
You're the first person to have made that connection, but not in the way I anticipated and it made me smile. Thank you😊
very good!
Really excellent and important video, thank you 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
I feel like I've internalized a lot of ableism which constantly shows up in my internal narrative towards myself. For example: being slower at things such as putting on my boots and snow pants in elementary school led to a lot of mocking. "I wish Michael was a tape so we could put him in a VCR and fast forward" was a common one. Nowadays I feel frequent, over-whelming pressure to go fast, including when nobody else is present in the situation. If nobody else is around, the pressure must be coming from my own thoughts, baked in from hearing the message to hurry-up for years.
Invalid doesn’t mean ‘not having value’. It derives from the Latin ‘validus’ meaning ‘strong’. Hence ‘in’ meaning not and ‘validus’ meaning strong so ‘not strong’. This is still an excellent video. I just love words…😊
Etymology is a pet passion of my own too. It's intriguing to note how "valid" has progressed from describing strength to relating whether or not something has any objective value. There's a lesson in there somewhere🤔
Very interesting 😊😊😊
I wish I could send this to my former employer!
@One Guy Named Ivan I wasn't let go. Just frequently passed up for promotion in favor of less experienced and less knowledgeable people. They kept giving me excuse after excuse until this last time the boss said "well sometimes you can come across rude without intending too..." And when I tried to explain to him that being on the Spectrum I can't control my pitch or tone of voice he cut me off and told me that I needed to take more responsibility for my actions
Please consider content re "internalized-ablesim'' if you've inclination*
;your viewpoint potentially beneficial and 'build/follow-on' this video well I think.
edit2add: *argh shudda waited fer your video to complete 👍✌️
I don’t understand why, being diagnosed aspergers, i get branded ABLEIST, for things other auties and aspies have spoken AROUND me, whilst i have said nothing and do not feel the same way.
I am autistic; my diagnosis was aspergers and i will not change the truth of that to keep the activists happy.
For what its worth, i feel my diagnosis was done inappropriately and assumed i have far less difficulty than i do.
I am angered by this
Not sure if I'm actually understanding your problem. What is it these "activists" are doing that are angering you? The only thing that I would ask you to consider is that is it worth it to you to have a a diagnosis named after and Nazi? Especially a Nazi that determined whether or not people like Us got to live if they could work in the war machine factories
@@hailsateen9219 i don’t understand what you are asking of me. I can’t “rediagnose myself” nor am i capable of stating mistruths about what my official diagnosis. Your concerns are not my concerns; this is quite obvious.
@@gonnfishy2987 you can update it to what the latest DSM says if you want to. I was asking why you're angry about what the activists are saying to you. I'm asking you to address your attachment to the label. I haven't addressed any concerns at all I don't know why you think I have. Just trying to give a well thought out perspective.
@@hailsateen9219 does it take money? How do i get “reclassified”?? I am angry that i haven’t found a way until you mentioned there might be one.
The activists? The ones shouting at ME about function labels and “why are you attached/why can’t you just live with ASD” when I’m not even the one chanpioning that label-- I’m trying to discuss the ways it was useful in making distinctions about early development and best teaching strategies, whilst resenting that it is causing me to be “vilified” For something i didnt choose.
Following?
@@gonnfishy2987 if you're talking to others about your disability you can just say ASD. For any professionals that need to know about your diagnosis I would tell them what is actually written down. I'm going to try and explain the issues with functioning labels and I hope you understand that I am not yelling at you. The problem with functioning labels is that function as it is described in psychological texts is the ability to appear neurotypical and behave in a neurotypical way. This does not address needs of autistic people. It demeans people that cannot communicate in typical ways and have higher support needs. I understand that you feel put off by people that came at you with an aggressive tone but you at least try to look at what I have brought to you
Do all states subscribe to the western ethos of the Enlightenment? Does our modern world today -- even in western nations like the US, UK, etc.?
💫✨🌟🖤🖤🖤🌟✨💫
Ableism is egalitarian.