Why Didn’t “Tattoo” Win the Televote?
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2024
- Loreen had the most popular Eurovision song of 2023 by every metric… except televotes. Why?
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I always see it as: you dont send a song to eurovision, you send a complete entry to eurovision. So it includes song, lyrics,performance, charisma of the singer, staging, backstory, vocals... All of that. So there are entries which rely in vocals to try to win, there are entries which rely in staging, there are entries which rely in the lyrics... Or entries with a combination of these. All of them are trying to do their best effort to win, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. What I mean is, cha cha cha is an entry which rely in the originality of the concept, staging, catchy lyrics and most of all in karijaa's charisma and interaction with the public. So, that is what made it televote winner, and would had been an amazing eurovision winner, very deserved. So it makes sense that people dont listen to chachacha in the studio version in spotify because its not the lyrics or the vocals what made it a winner in this case. Loreens song on the other hand, rely in vocals more than anything, so it makes sense people can hear it on spotify, and dont need to see the staging etc to enjoy the song. You can note, to prove my theory, that Karijaa consistently ranked 1st after the show in the official "eurovision most watched" on the eurovision youtube channel every month. And even now, he still ranks above loreen every month on that. And it makes sense, because people dont wanna listen to the studio version of chachacha, but they wanna see the staging, performance, choreografy, etc of cha cha cha, because thats what they voted for.
Also, at least in my experience, Cha Cha Cha is the kind of song that grabs your FULL attention when you listen to it. It's almost impossible to not be swept away by it. That means it can't be played in as many situations as a more generic song like Tattoo. I heard Cha Cha Cha as background music in a grocery store in Finland once, and even though I love the song it felt really out of place. 😂
In a way, you could say the juries voted for "elevator music", while the people voted for an experience.
That's it!
Exactly.
Exactly !
hot take: swedens staging was better than Finland
I will be honest: the stuff people stream is kinda bland. They are acceptable pop songs, but they're not particularly interesting or fun.
Not to mention the amount of streams that come from songs being played as background music. You can't say a song is good just because enough grocery stores decided its palatable enough to play in the background.
The songs that get streamed the most generally get replayed a lot, so inoffensive pop songs like “Snap,” “Arcade,” and “Tattoo” fall in that category.
Also, those songs are more widely accepted across the general public and outside the Eurovision bubble… because they’re inoffensive.
But tattoo is an amazing song babe
@@famemosterrrrrits ok. Nothing groundbreaking, inoffensive and fits in with the general radio sound.
Kinda like Mac and Cheese
@@demonipo Because Cha Cha Cha was groundbreaking? 😂
Came for the analysis, stayed for the needlessly fancy 3d-renders.
I also would wanna resort to views on UA-cam. Since Eurovision is first and foremost a visual medium. Cha Cha Cha is still 7 Million views ahead of Tattoo as of now
Views across all official uploads on youtube (millions):
Tattoo 197.9
Due vite 132.2
Solo 96.3
Queen of kings 84.1
Cha cha cha 83.1
@@bjonndrogg6612 that includes music videos and lyrics videos. missing the Point there.
@@MyBroSux24 Keep telling yourself that
that’s not true
This. Eurovision is a TV show first and foremost. A song contest in title, but as a TV show a performance. It’s the whole package. Studio tracks are long term success, but to say why things didn’t do a certain way at the show needs the whole package to compare against.
Did not read all comments, so this might already be have been said but a simple basic truth would be that people watching and voting Eurovision isn't the same group of people just "happening" across a popular song and streaming the living daylights out of it. Those people often do not know nor care that it is a Eurovision song. They randomly hear it, like it and done. So streams and ESC televoting figures are a Venn diagram with a probably smaller crosssection than Euroheads love to expect.
It is common for people to say, I like this song, I can see my self adding it on my playlist, but it is not what I want to see on Eurovision.
Tattoo is made in the best swedish labs by the masters of pop science, made to be objectively really good. And that's it. There is objectively nothing wrong with it and it is well produced, but there is subjectively nothing to exciting about it.
They made perfect jury bait and it worked
The swedish labs that kill the competition by using sordid schemes to make their competitors win. Also nothing original with those always plastic, chewing gum pop songs ...
I can tell you that I find "Tattoo" extremely exciting tho.
Totally dont agree. Its so emotive and passionate. Loreen pours her heart out. Its a masterpiece!
@@evipevi1973 Tatoo it's a lab "masterpiece". It could be made by Artificial Inteligence, lol.
@@manuelfernandes8405 nope. AI could never create a performance like that. I saw her live when she won. Totally gobsmacked. Goosebumbs everywhere! I so much prefer an entry like that compared to all troll entries that try to be crazy just to be crazy. Exhausting.
The damn song was on all radios even before she won eurovision, thats why a lot of ppl streamed
I cannot step into the supermarket without being harassed by it. What makes it a winner (in jury’s opinion) is if it can be streamed to death by radio stations. Yet another radio friendly jingle. Not more, not less. It’s a real shame to be honest.
exactly, in Belgium they were playing it 24/7 on every radio in existence. meanwhile I haven't heard cha cha played in its entirety even ONCE. before OR after esc.
@@szinga same in the Netherlands.
Also music industry and marketing... Tattoo was heavily pushed on streaming platforms. I listen to mostly death metal yet I got ads for Tattoo. I guess it's because I listen to Eurovision songs once a year, because normally I wouldn't listen to anything like it ever. Marketing was strong on this one.
I keep getting ads for ABBA on UA-cam! Even though I've shown no interest in them.
Why do you enjoy Eurovision if you mostly listen to death metal?
@@Mycenaea People can enjoy a wide range of music. No rules!
@@Mycenaea It's my favourite event of the year. It's a cultural exchange, a carnival and a party all in one. I enjoy the performances and the entire show even if I will never listen to most of the songs again. And every now and then, there is something that I also like musically, like Hatari, Voyager and Gåte, just to mention a few. I can still appreciate a song from a genre that I would not listen to normally. Often my winner is a song that I would not choose to listen to if it wasn't Eurovision. I wish more pop music would be like Switzerland's entry this year. I find it interesting and an excellent piece of well-made pop, but I would not put it on any of my playlists.
@@MycenaeaWhat a F messed up question... I listen to F black metal and i adore Eurovision
The secret to high streaming numbers is to be on playlists (then people do not need to seek out your song anymore, they just get it "delivered" to them without really realizing, its kind of like radio in that way). All three, Snap, Arcade and Tattoo were added to Today's Top Hits (the first two after going viral, Tattoo after winning I think). It is spotify's biggest playlist and a spot there basically guarantees your song becomes a streaming hit if your label pays and Cha Cha Cha or other popular televote songs just did not get that kind of privilege.
Hence, spotify streams arent really a good indicator for how beloved a eurovision song is but rather how much reach it has on the platform. UA-cam still has the algorithm influence it, but yt views are a better indicator for that kinda thing as people seek out the videos more deliberately
UA-cam: Tattoo almost 200 millions, Cha Cha Cha has 85 million in total.
@@murketvatten
It's not surprising that Tattoo has more YT views a year after it won after all. Many people will look it up precisely for that reason. Those particularly interested will apply for the second place. Let's see in 2, 5 or 10 years - who will still be seen, and who will grow the fastest? Tattoo or Cha Cha Cha?
"Cha cha cha" was my 3y.o. daughter's favourite. I am not able to count how many times we've played it in the car for her. It was also our (my husband's and mine) winner, but my daughter was obsessed :D
Okay and?
I find it perfectly normal for a child to be entertained by chachacha. Similar mental age to all others who voted for it
@@user-vg5fs4yc3lStay mad
@@user-vg5fs4yc3l rude
That’s so cute!
because that was not the song we wanted to win
The thing about that song is that is factory made to appeal to the music industry in the west, why the jury loved it and why a lot of us were pissed that it won over the entry that had life behind it. Eurovision is an event, a whole experience, and sweden's song felt like a product not a song. Personally I also didn't like it what so ever, but I do know people who did. But it is a feeling I get that a song with people behind it instead of lifeless corpos would work better in a setting where emotions are all over the place and Finland had it, made me feel like I was watching an event not an ad campaign.
I could see la noia having most streams after winning the contest. If Switzerland or Croatia win i don’t see it happening.
That would also be my prediction. We had Cha Cha Cha, so there is no need for a worse version of that in the form of Croatia this year, and many people don't like 4 genres of music including opera jammed into 3 minutes like Switzerland. La Noia will be popular with the younger generation and in general.
I imagine a lot of Tattoo's post-contest streams come from the fact it was embedded on news sites all over the world as the winner, it is 'news', rather than 'music'. Tbh, a year later and I still couldn't sing you Tattoo, it's a Teflon song, non-stick in the memory. There are some metrics which *people* don't influence, we know this, and then we keep forgetting it...
I actually wanna see if tattoo holds up a few years down the line or if cha cha cha will over take them as people will resort to good memories
@@MyBroSux24 Have to catch Alessandra "Queen of kings" first
@MyBroSux24 remember Molitva? Maybe not but you remember Dancing Lasha Tumbai.
i totally agree !!! Good phrase: Tatoo is a Teflon song, nothing less, nothing more !!!
It's a television show after all, so there are more focus on the visual aspect and the put up a good show. That also makes the live vocals more important, which is why Cha Cha didn't get a better jury score. They were slightly disappointing compared to the national final.
I continue to be bemused by the popularity of Tattoo in general. As a musician it's a perfectly fine song that is artfully produced -- there's nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it's particularly special, and certainly not especially entertaining. It's a head-scratcher for me. *shrugs* Cha Cha Cha is musically not that interesting either, but in terms of subject matter and performance it sure is entertaining. My favorite song was neither of those, though I was still rooting for Cha Cha Cha at the end like most people.
I must admit, it personally hurt me when you said no one watches Eurovision alone 🥲
I'm with you 🤗 Not in being hurt, but in watching alone.
I’ve always watched it alone, because I don’t know anyone else who likes it. I understand how you feel. Let’s hope we find some new friends who can enjoy it with us.
My husband refuses to see Eurovision. My 26 yo son pops in the living room when some of the songs "is calling" for him. But, yes, I am alone on this !
Watching it alone doesn't mean being alone. The ESC unites us wherever you watch the show. I hope you will feel Joost Klein's warm blanket when he tells you: “I love you all!”
I watch it with my family but then rewatch it alone
Rewinding in time- Loreen had a similar treatment in media back in 2012. Not that she was returning and ESC royalty, but the dominate favorite to win. I went into the 2012 contest thinking it’d be overhyped because we expected the win, but was won over by her performance.
I wonder if the whole televote vs. streaming difference for "Snap" is also caused by age groups. In my country voting is 1€ per song. As a student and later as somebody at the beginning of my career I didn't have the budget for something like ESC votes. And for the even younger people the question is if their phone contract even enabled them to vote. But TikTok and Spotify don't have that limitation and TikTok especially has probably young people as its main audience.
Did Snap become viral after the contest ? Because even though I agree with what you said, I also think that there's something really random about the songs that become viral, especially on TikTok. I'd say it's extremely luck-based, and not only about the mere quality of the song initially (I mean, the quality does count, but it's definitely not what makes it viral among other good songs). Tbf I don't think that Snap has anything special, really, so for me, if indeed the song became viral after the ESC, it makes sense that it did pretty poorly in the contest but really good afterwards : it's just that not many people liked the song that much during the ESC. If it became viral before the contest my hypothesis doesn't work though, so in this case yours is probably more relevant.
Snap became hugely popular because it engaged a non voting non European audience. If she performed now with the rest of the world allowed to vote her result would be better.
@@QueenieQantasso she would get maximum 12 points more?
I don't think that statistically it got a lot of points from young people in the 2022 televote. Snap is still not a good song and the performance and stage concept were pretty boring. That's why it didn't get points. Something going viral on tiktok is not an indicator for quality. The song got the spot on the leaderboard that it deserved at the time. Young people voting wouldn't have made a difference because initially the song did not stand out to anyone, not even teens. It had to rely on virality and a trend in order to gain streams.
There's a subsection of Eurovision fans that have a narrow minded view that streams = televote success and this video shuts that down a lot.
Are you ever going to talk about Europapa? I keep hoping to see it.
Saw the video? 💯💙
@@rakrega Yes, I was so happy 🤩
The best Thing about Tattoo is still the Singer.
Agree. I don't think the same song would have won if someone else was performing it.
I would rephrase it a bit.... Loreen was performig _at_ us, Kaarija was peforming for and to us.
Also Tattoo seems like jury bait (juries are far more into conventional pop formats sung in deracinated English) while the audience is now, ironically enough a lot more sophisticated and is okay with unconventional songs or songs not sung in euro-English.
Dude that opening paragraph is soooo good!
Nail, head, nice one.
You forget one thing, votes are based on countries not population. Greece,albania,north macedonia, bulgaria, moldova and romania have less population than italy but 6 times more votes. Thus moldova going with something closer to balkan traditional music has an advantage that way.
I usually measure if an Eurovision song got really popular when people make the Brazilian "version" with Portuguese lyrics and my neighbor's bar is playing it. Tattoo and Arcade checks all of them
I feel like another factor that isn't talked about enough is the fact that Loreen's Eurovision performance was kinda underwhelming compared to the previous Melodifestivalen. Not because she herself was bad, but because the staging had to be scaled down for Liverpool and lost its appeal in the process. I can understand how people seeing it for the first time during the grand finale might not feel the spark as much.
I'm a Loreen stan, but i never really revisit her Eurovision performances, because the Melodifestivalen performances are just LEAGUES better.
Well done overthinkers, you delivered another fantastic video! ❤
I know. Because Abba is celebrating their 50th anniversary of winning Eurovision this year.
Abba could celebrate their win anywhere…besides this is just stupid theory when in reality that’s not even close to truth. In 2025 it would be 20 years since Greece won…u think Greece will win just to celebrate that shit?😂 hahahaha okay y’all DELULULULU
Wouldn’t it rather be because 2024 is 40 years since Herreys won? 🤔😉
My favourite from the show was by far Cha Cha Cha in 2023 (Sweden was my third/fourth). And although I’ve streamed Cha Cha Cha quite a lot, Tattoo is my most streamed song ever. The song is kinda ok and the performance great though not the best imo. But it is a good song to stream. To stream Cha Cha Cha you kinda have to get in the mood, while you can basically put on Tattoo whenever and wherever you want.
Awesome video as always! I do think that this year is entirely unpredictable! La Noia seems to be “winning” in the Spotify streams, but it is clear to me that it isn’t the favourite to win. It can, of course, and I doubt anyone would be too upset about it, but it isn’t as hyped as Nemo or Baby Lasagna or Joost. Guess we’ll have to see what TikTok says, huh? 😂
I actually have the exact oposite feeling about this year. 😁
I feel that Nemo is winning without any serious competition for first place. He's not my favorite but he's on my top 5 so I would be happy with that.
Baby Lasagna is great as well but from what I've seen they may struggle a lit bit live. It's clear that the live version does not have the same quality as the studio cut.
As for Joost, I don't get it. I really dislike that song. Of course others are entitled to love it but I really really don't get why. For me is cheesy as hell. Bland lyrics, generic electro-pop beat...I really don't like it.
@@joaobpintoThis channel made a new video about Olly Alexander 🇬🇧 and Joost Klein 🇳🇱. It might help you understand Europapa a bit better. Still disliking the song afterwards is 👍🏼. Enjoy the ESC 2024!
@@rakrega Thanks, I'll check it out. 😁
[EDIT] Now that I saw the video I dislike it even more 😅.
I'm really sorry, it's not my intention to make anyone feel bad but I really don't like it and now with all the background story it's no longer only my ears "rejecting it", my brain joined the club. This one is really not for me, but luckly there will be people who can appreciate it.
Streams come from all countries while televotes are only from participating countries
Valid point!
So weird that Snap is so famous yet I've never heard it once since the festival last year
I remember always getting tattoo randomly directly after streaming cha-cha-cha, even though I always skipped it, it was fairly annoying
I see it as obvious and it is the problem with having both juries and televotes. They work against each other especially from people who are heavily invested in to the contest. I think this has become more so (jury vs televote) with countries popular with the juries like Sweden.
One has to remember that Ireland for example who was very popular at one time and nearly won everything. Would be totally destroyed by televotes if that existed back then. Because people just do not want the same country winning over and over again (Ireland also had language advantage). People have other intersest than just the best song and performance.
Also one has to consider that a lot of people do not pay much attention at all when they see the contest. So here just standing out in nearly way could be good. This matters much more to the televotes.
Another factor seldomly discussed is who votes. I certainly do not think they represent the average viewer. If I where to speculate I think it is a certain age group and gender that generally votes.
One thing that really stuck with me was what one of the Swedish commentators said during the broadcast. Everyone was competing against each other, but Loreen was also competing against Euphoria. So she was measured not only against her opponents, but what is considered one of the greatest performances of all time in the contest.
But I also think that if BBC had been able to replicate her national final performance, with the bigger screen and more advanced camerawork, she would without a doubt have lessened the margin to Finland or possibly even won the televote. A real shame!❤
Totally agree! Well said!
I think, based on personal anecdotal evidence, that the major voting demographic for the contest, especially the final, consists of children/non-adults who do not stream their music on Spotify. Households are typically voting for the favorite of their kids.
And yes cha cha cha is a childish song, just like toy, trenuletul etc. These songs appeal to the kids. Which will be a huge plus for NL and HR this year but i hope europapa takes it)
You haven't visited the Cha-cha-cha comment section ever? It's full of GenX'es (like myself)
@@mo4848 You're rather bigoted by calling songs with classic Balkan beats childish. I didn't vote for Moldova because any child asked me, but because it's a fun Balkan dance song with great lyrics.
Good point - I can imagine a world where Croatia's song is gonna appeal 'big-time' with the younger audience - 'Hey I'm a big boy now ... and I sold my cow' Simple sweet lyrics kids will lap up, allong with that driving beat. I kinda love that cross generation appeal of the song 🐈
@@LeafHuntressthere is a certain class of eurovision fan who refers to anything that isn't generic pop as "childish". I feel sorry for them.
It's almost as if it's a "3-minute-piece-of-television" contest and a well-crafted, producer-led running order has a huge impact on the televote. Watch out for the latter as well, it's going to make allocation draws and juries redundant.
Just an interesting fact, there's a Brazilian version of tatoo that actually has by it self more streams than cha cha cha. The name of the song is "daqui para sempre" and just listening to it you can immediately recognize it as tattoo, but in a Brazilian style
The often repeated myth that "Sweden wins every year" is not true.
ESC started in 1956, which is 68 years ago today. During these years Sweden has won 7 times.
7 out of 68 is not "every year", is it?
It comes from Sweden winning in 2012, 2015 and 2023, that's three times in 11 years. It's no wonder people are tired of seeing Sweden win. Are they really that much better than all the others, or is it because their strategy is to win the jury, and not the people?
The jury is not in the comments and defends Sweden. There you find the people, and when the people feel run over by the jury, it is understandable that they get angry, especially when the country the jury choose has won many times in recent years. Note that there is not as much dissatisfaction that Switzerland won this year, although they also won because of the jury and against the wishes of the people.
Excellent analysis - now subscribed!
Because it's not as authentic as other televote favourites. Someone else (6 songwriters) wrote her a song and even the demo was sung by someone else. Loreen had a say and was allowed to add modifications, she is credited on the song, but it's not her or her usual team's composition.
She performed it really well, but it's still just a good theatre performance in my eyes.
Tattoo feels manufactured. Loreen is a great vocalist, but there’s nothing authentic about the song or the performance. Käärijä in all his weirdness is real and this crazy party song has a meaning that hits me somewhere deep down.
I think once their favourites have qualified or not, they will vote for those they wish to see win. Especially when it’s possible
How does Spotify include songs in playlists? I think a lot of people listen to radio friendly pop as a background music, and Tattoo 'pops up' (no pun intended) once in a while, and doesn't mean people have selected to listen to it themselves. Cha Cha Cha on the other hand, is a very distinct mixed genre, and probably doesn't get included in such lists.
I get what you're saying. Even the current entry of Sweden, Unforgettable, just suddenly pops up in my Spotify without me asking for or playing it previously. So sketchy. Tattoo more streamed in Spotify than Cha Cha Cha feels to sketchy, as well.
@@emilkeithantonio9310Not how Spotify works
I felt exactly that after the semifinals: I was rooting for Finland up until the finals, when I started to get very tired of Cha Cha Cha and wondered "is this really what I want to listen to every time I see anything mentioning Eurovision for a whole year?", "is this what I want to stream for the rest of the year and remember about the winner of ESC 2023?", and then I changed my favorite to my 2nd place at the time, Tattoo.
I got the same feeling with Tatoo but since the begining of the contest: boring song that even was not in my top 10.
It's because Käärijä won the televote.
Eurovision is a show.
We want something different, something engaging. I won’t listen to «Cha Cha Cha» on the bus, wrong setting, but for Eurovision? Perfect!
Need to look at the timing of the stream data. Snap got the majority of it's streaming hits after the competition. She got exposure in the competition, broke into the US market and BAM, streaming record!
the song that gets disqualified gets the most streams.
Have you considered playlist placement in your analysis/reflection? (Or marketing in general). Winners get a lot more industry support than runner ups, for example.
Spotify isn't that much of a factor in many voting countries in Europe.
SNAP was interesting song, because I loved it, it was my favourite that year, but my friend with whome I watch Eurovision looked me like crazy person and were "You like that?". Turned out in the end I wasn't alone.
But soon it's been a year, and I still can't stand Tattoo, well maybe it just isn't my music. First I thought that when I just here it without needing to see it, I will like it like Euphoria, which I truly disliked when it was winner, but soon after when I just heard it I started to love it. So I thought that there is something that I don't like Loreen's stage performance and when I don't see her performance and only hear the song, I will warm up to it. Nope, didn't happen.
But nice analysis!
I liked Snap immediately too. I still love it. I don’t get the Loreen fandom… I’m sure she’s lovely but I don’t like either of those songs. Especially Tatoo. She performed it well but it’s just not a great song and I really don’t get the costume and staging. There are so many good songs this year! I can’t wait.
I also like Snap very much, and better with time. I disliked Tattoo from the start, and Loreen's performance is probably the reason. She doesn't offer herself at all, and the fact that she was placed in a visually closed room didn't make it any better. It's like someone else comments, she performed for the audience, while Käärijä performed to the audience. There is no communication, other than the voice, and even that I experience as "closed". I will admit that I like the song better when I close my eyes, but the impression from the performance ruins the whole experience for me. Snap is something else entirely. It is open, friendly and dreamy, while Tattoo to me is dreamy and closed off.
@@ahkkariq7406 i agree. I just don’t get the worship even though she sings well. The music itself is not for me either.
@@tmpnash Worship is the word. Totally agree.
@@ahkkariq7406no negativity towards her as a person or singer but I just fail to understand the difference between her and others that sing well but don’t sing particularly interesting music…
Will there be more song reviews soon? I'd assumed your schedule was one song review, and then one history or date related one each week.
I mean, Tattoo is a radio friendly power ballad (which is not a bad thing!) which any major radio station and mainstream playlist can have, while Cha Cha Cha is a radio unfriendly mix of electrocore and EDM that would pop up only in more specific radio stations and Spotify mixes. That's... really it. Tattoo has more streams because it is more marketable to the general audience.
Tattoo has appeared in one of those generic mixes for everyone on my Spotify many times, but never in my targeted daily mixes which are an ungodly mixture of dance/techno/house, death and black metal, and videogame music (having to go from "From The Cradle To Enslave" to "sans." is... an experience)
Great video and analysis! I think there's something to be said about Eurovision fans (the type that watch, and most importantly, vote), compared to the general public. Once the night is over, everything is just in the hands of the wider public. I also agree that 'Tattoo' or even 'Snap' are songs that can be played in many contexts, but a song like 'Cha Cha Cha' only works in some specific ones like a gym or a party.
That’s what makes it special. Songs played in supermarkets don’t have that much impact.
When I watch Eurovision with my friends we have a scoring system that involves the full performance, including staging, costumes, and vocals. But when I listen to the song afterwards, it's just about whether I like the song or not.
Streams means nothing because in most cases people don’t or can’t choose themselves what it plays. For example if I would listen Spotify it would play Tattoo at some point. It doesn’t matter at all if I like it or not. To skip it I would need to pay the subscription fee and it could still randomly play. Old days when we bought physical media it actually mattered. We could vote with our wallet and no one else got choose what to play.
great video
If You transfer Spotify streams straight to (people) votes, there's no need to held a contest at all? Also could be thinking it will win anyway because of jury support, therefore will vote another?
One of the most popular songs of Eurovision 2024 is Europapa from the Netherlands, and it could also win the televote. 🤔
Because Käärijä's "Cha Cha Cha" won the Televote💚💪🇫🇮
And yet didn’t won 😂
@@famemosterrrrr Cha Cha Cha is 2nd by televote in history, while Tattoo is 27th, WOMP WOMP
@@enrikasbutavicius5839tell ‘em
A song and a Eurovision performance are two different things. Connected, yes, but still can very much varying results depending on the details. Televote is not swayed by ads and suggestions popping up in the news or on your playlist for once, and spotify replays are not influenced by how well the live stage was prepared and executed with all possible aspects - live vocal, music, connecting with audience, stylization, special effects, camera work... This is way more complicated than winner = most streams, but to me, Cha Cha Cha and Rim Tim Tagi Dim were the show winners :D (And special shoutout to Ireland and Norway for the folk roots
There's absolutely different types of good. I'm honestly really happy with the outcome of this year, for this year, but Slimane's Mon Amour is what's in my head right now. It only really becomes a problem when reduced to a "which bear is best" argument.
I watch Eurovision alone. I wasn't sad about it before, but now I am.
You wouldn't play Bryan Ferry's "Let's stick together" at a wedding...oh wait, people who haven't read the lyrics do 🤣
I would be surprised if the streams are that different after Eurovision to before. As you point out: streaming is done in different settings. I suspect the contest makes little difference to what ends up being streamed most. Maybe if a "dark horse" wins the contest, but otherwise I doubt it.
I also presume Europapa is currently most streamed, will win, and will then remain most streamed. #blijfhiertotikdoodga
Estonia in 2001 is usually the best example of a song that's works on a big stage
I don't know how typical I am as a big Eurovision fan/nerd, but even though in this modern ears I could play all the entrants over and over again for many many weeks before the contest, I never do, with the exception of the UK's own entry, which I maybe play once or twice just so I know what our chances might be. I've been following the contest for about around 3 decades now and historically you never heard other country's songs until you were actually watching the ESC on the night, and therefore to win Eurovision you needed an instantly memorable song, so I have always stuck to that tradition of not knowing the songs to this day. Anyway last year I just for the life of me did not 'get' Tattoo in either the semi-final or final, and afterwards I was frustrated that the winner was what we had been told beforehand was going to win, rather than something that actually sounded anything like a winner. However clearly the song is one that very much grows on you, rather than one you 'get' on the first or second listen, as I do now love it and completely 'get' why it won. The point is that I didn't vote for it at all at the time, and there could well have been other hardcore ESC fans who also choose to abstain from playing the songs before the contest, and who also didn't 'get' the song in time. Also causual viewers who just tuned in on the night and had not spent weeks anticipating it and playing the songs online might also not have 'got' it during the contest and not voted for it. I've never really got Arcade during the contest either, but now I guess it's ok. And I only just 'got' The Code in time this year, having not voted for it in the semi-final and not originally planned via my score sheet to vote for it in the final, but during the second recap near the end of the voting window in the final I suddenly 'got' it and felt compelled to vote for it, even though I'd already voted for 6-7 others songs during the first recap (which I usually set as an upper limit of how many to vote for) and then thought I was done. I haven't stopped singing 'The Code' since Saturday, it's being going round my head ever since, but it very nearly was another recent winner that I didn't vote for on the night, if I hadn't had a last minute change of heart about it.
I agree. And also, televoting has its rules: it's basically restricted to EBU Zone and there's a limit of votes. The US itself can increase the number of streams of an Eurovision song, but Iceland can vote and give the same amount of points than Germany or France
Because everyone knew that she would be crowned by the jury. Why even have a competition if the winner is already crowned before it starts.
A song winning both the televote and the jury vote would be the perfect song. I don't think that is going to happen often in Eurovision
It's kind of impressive that the winner of this prize rn would be the DISQUALIFIED act, we'll see how that goes in a year
How are you guys so good?
I guess this is the problem with every mixed vote. The same problem happens every year with the winner of Sanremo: no one was really rooting for tue winner and the winner is never the one people remember with tue passage of time; usually is the 2nd or 3rd the one you ear the most on the radio or at public gatherings.
The mianstream likes Tattoo more and pushed it more.
Because tattoo is amazing, I’m sorry y’all try to pretend u like underdogs
@@famemosterrrrr I do like underdogs and CCC - just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm faking.
@@EmoBearRights there is a reason why a song becomes popular….you people who try to play the edgy card can’t seem to accept that mainstream pop is better and more accessible to the general public. You think 50 year old mothers would like cha cha cha or tattoo?
@@famemosterrrrr Actually believe it or not I'm a 51 year old mum - you forget 50 year olds were kids in the age of Joy Division when The Specials and Madness were no.1 and young adults in the time of Nirvana. Also I don't think I'm automatically an edgelady just because I won't acknowledge the automatic so-called superiority of the mainstream and I'm saying this as someone who likes Snap. If you prefer Tattoo that's fine just don't try and pretend that's anything other than a subjective judgement and if it's popular it's just a subjective judgement shared by a lot of people.
@@EmoBearRights of course they are some 50 year old who like cha cha cha but to the core they would like the safe choice. My mom is 56 and she liked tattoo so much that she voted for it….they are always two sides of the coin miss emo bear
My sister who loves "Snap"
And knows *I love Eurovision* 🥳
((Im always telling her to watch it))
Didn't know it was from Eurovision.
(We live in USA)
So i agree with comments.
For this year i keep sending her the Semis playlists.
I wonder what songs, if any,
She might encounter without knowing it was from ESC 2024 🤨
Because i doubt she will watch the final 🥲
Loreen only duty was to win, and win easily.... Sweden never had in mind anyone or any song could be better....she can have billion's of streams, but I think Käärijä is the one they remember...
People remember both, stop with the bullshit, noone in Sweden saw Loreens win as a walk in the park, just excited for her possible winning, at the same time Sweden was one of the biggest supporters of Käärijä, many swedes embraced a finnish win and Sweden as the runner up, well can't blame a country for being happy to win, tho it's bullshit of you to assume Sweden was so sure of that win. Most people will remember 2023 as Loreen vs Käärijä.
Loreen is gonna be remembered bro don’t underestimate her just to uplift Käärijä. She is a legend and that’s a fact.
Here in Greece we love her a lot and her music plays on the radios again and again. Please don’t bring her down. She is amazing and deserved the win more than anyone else.
Deal with it
@@famemosterrrrr For me Käärijä is a legend, not Loreen. Sweden made all to win, the juries were bought so that Sweden could host the ESC 2024 in the 50th anniversary of ABBA. Anyone has still any doubt of it? The voting theater of the juries was a shame ... !!!
@@alvdansen7172 What bullshit ??? Käärijä was the real winner, what's your problem with that ???
@@manuelfernandes8405 But he's not the real winner, you peoole only made that shit up for being salty. There is only one real winner and that is Loreen. Käärijä might have won the heart of the televotes that day but he is still not a winner no matter how much you try to twist it. Real winner will always be Loreen and she deserved that win. Just because Käärijä got most televotes does not mean it means more than the actual winner of the show. The televotes are not the most important type of votes, the year the televotes allowed Ukraine to win people got mad and had a problem with the televoters and said no the real winner was runner up, well too bad, Ukraine IS the only true winner that year, whether its bitter or not the winner is the winner and should be respected agreeing with the win or not. Your favorite will not always win but the winner still won because there were people who wanted it to win. Loreen was definitly the favorite for others, otherwise she would not be in second place in the televotes either.
Fun fact: the Brazilian version of Tatoo, called “Daqui para sempre”, by singer Manu Bahtidao, has currently 300+ million views on UA-cam, which is 6 times more than Tatoo’s official audio, and around 13 times more than the winning performance at Eurovision.
I may be alone in this camp, but I thoroughly believe if Loreen brought the staging from melfest, things would be very different. I think (at least part of) the reason she didn’t win the televote wasn’t that it’s a party song vs a power ballad sort of situation, but rather her staging was only at like 60% of what it was planned for. They had to quickly adjust everything according to the EBU regulations and it took away the magic that made the song popular in the first place. Liking a song or not is subjective, but I don’t think anyone can deny that the staging can make or break a song at Eurovision. Kaarija had elevated his staging from his NF, Loreen had a downgrade. To me, it’s clear it had an impact.
The vast majority of watchers does not follow the national finals and would have no idea the staging had been downgraded (or upgraded in Finland's case). By far the biggest complaint with Tattoo winning has been about the song itself, so I doubt any staging changes would have made a difference. Voters simply just liked Cha Cha Cha more.
Staging is important, but Tattoo is a bland generic song with no real meaning behind it.
Are the Abbatars held up? I didn't get clue in this one
spotify is a horrific proxy of popularity as u pointed out. I rarely listen to my favourite songs because im busy working & wouldn’t be able to concentrate.
While writing a very long comment, my laptop restarted randomly and I lost all the text. So in other, and shorter sentences: People like different things. We can try to be objective and recognize good qualities in a song, but as long as we don't like it, we probably won't vote for it (if we even vote at all, because there are costs connected with the voting too), because what we like is subjective. Some like live performances and party songs, others prefer studio sound and heartwarming songs. Some songs work best as live performances and since the show is just that, those songs get votes...from people who prefer live performances.
Now, for this year's winner...Nemo, from Switzerland, with the song "The Code". The live performance gave me this impression:
The melody is quite random, hard to follow, and has a structure that I don't like. Opera can be okay from time to time. This wasn't one of those times. Same goes for rap. Sometimes it works for me, other times it doesn't. This time it didn't work for me. Nemo ran around on the stage a lot, which made the text hard to hear for me, so I didn't get the full message of the song. I also didn't like their voice. I don't get hang up on the fact that Nemo is non-binary but still looks and sounds like a guy, because all of that implies to me too. However, I strongly disliked their clothes (and haircut), and the performance wasn't up my ally either. So a random melody with hard to hear lyrics from a person with ugly clothes and haircut, and a performance based on running around and jumping on things...or sliding off of things...it just didn't work for me. Nothing worked. At all. Strong dislike for me.
So I did the video test: I listened to and looked at the studio recording with the added music video. The video told a story, that the live performance didn't do. The sound was much better, so I could hear the words better. On top of that, the video also showed the lyrics, so I could see what was being sung that I couldn't hear. Still didn't like their voice but it was at least slightly better in the video. Overall the video gave a much better visual performance than Nemo's live show. I caught a quick glimpse in the video of clothes that looked similar to what Nemo had on stage, but they were visible on for a short time. So based on the video, there are many improvements that make the song work better for me as a listener.
But at the core the song is still the same and I still don't really like it. I might come to tolerate it, after hearing it a few more times, but this song just isn't for me. I strongly disliked the live show because of Nemo's clothes, haircut and performance. All those things go away if I just listen to the song. But then comes the randomness and Nemo's voice, and I don't like them either. So all in all, I probably won't appreciate The code very much at all, even after hearing it several times. But sometimes I grow to like songs I didn't like at first.
And what does this mean for voting in eurovision? That people who like live shows will vote for songs like that, people who prefer studio sound will vote for something that sounds really good, and some people won't vote at all, no matter what they see or hear. All in all, the voting is as random and chaotic as the show itself.
But I still want those jury groups removed permanently.
to answer your question at the end: no I don't the two winners will match this year. Europapa and La Noia are both dominating the streaming charts but I don't see either quite making it to the top, especially if the jury tanks Europapa. The Code, which I still see as the most likely winner, is currently at a distant 7th place.
Alternative explenation: the jury actually scores a different performance (the closed afternoon performance) than the audience. If you rewatch Loreens performance in the semis and in the final, you'll see that her performance in the final actually was not very good (compared to the semis). I suspect her afternoon performance was a lot better. So, the jury got to see a better performance than the audience and consequently scored it higher.
I wonder whether this channel will ever ve able to remove the tattoo of underestimating Trenetul from its thinking
I agree with your analysis, and also with people in the comment saying that a Eurovision entry is about a whole package, including the performance, the staging, the artist's charisma, etc.
Which, I think, makes Sobral's win in 2017 even more impressive. Like, his song was not really what anyone would call a Eurovision song. It's pretty impressive that it was the song that won the televote, and not Moldova's entry for instance (which wasn't even 2nd). Moldova was more memeable, more fun, yet the televote winner was a very calm and minimalistic song. I hardly doubt that anything like this could ever happen again, I think 2017 was a one time thing. Turns out Eurovision isn't always about partying !
that song was so distinct and moving compared to the rest, that it was extremely memoreable during the competition. An exeption to the rule maybe because others have also tried and failed. Maybe because that one felt truly heartfelt and honest than just a great pretend performance.
On top of that Sobral I think Salvador Sobral got the Eurovision Record for the winner with more points ever.
I mean, that year when we were only missing Portugal and Bulgaria public votes, Portugal was still leading meaning Portugal had more points with the juries alone than everyone else had with juries + public (the only exception would be Bulgaria).
@@joaobpinto Yes, Portugal won in 2017 with 758 points, a record not yet beaten.
Don’t compare Amar pelos dois with Tattoo, the first one was full of real emotions and that’s what captivated the audience. Tattoo is a well manufactured product, it’s completely artificial and actually meaningless. It’s authenticity that matters the most. There’s nothing authentic about Tattoo and nothing memorable about it other then the singer who is already a household name.
There is like and dislike ratio.
If you watch song 300 times it will be included as 300 by YT views. The same on other stream platforms.
People just click a view to write a comment
The artist can buy views in a certain countries or buy listeners that put the song in a loop
There is no way you guys wanted that cha cha song to win
I think it didn't win televotes because it 'sounded'/reminded people of her song "Euphoria." Was good, but I felt like she came with a similar song again, with which she already won. Another reason why was it most-streamed? Cause it was good and gave a fresh version to "Euphoria" in a way. So the nostalgic and know sound also plays the role here.
Spotify by the way is a Swedish company. So the pop scientists created the most popular streaming platform in the world.
The craziest stat for me highlighting SNAP's Spotify success is how it has 160m more streams than every other song that year *combined*
Did you mention what place snap got in the televote?
It wouldn’t have won, would it?
we love an american actually investigating in european topics :D
I think people actively chose not to vote for Loreen because she'd already won before.
Another thing you’re missing is Eurovision has extreme gerrymandering as all countries’ vote, regardless of population, counts for the same
And that is the difference. Eurovision is more than "radio" friendly songs. 60-70% is about the performance and engagement. The song and vocals need to be better than average to win but otherwise the performance is crucial. Some people will say that is wrong but I think it makes Eurovision much more exciting to watch. Last year you had Tattoo and Cha Cha Cha both doing well but obviously very different performances.
Good acts get votes and good songs get streams. That simple.
Mal ehrlich: „Tattoo“ ist ohne die Show ein durchschnittlicher Schweden-Pop-Song. Die Show war auf die Jurys ausgelegt, während „Cha Cha Cha“ einfach Spaß macht. Und den Spaß sah man Käärija und seinen Tänzern auch an.
call me boring but I never saw Eurovision as party. I'm always looking for songs I enjoy and would listen to again. I guess that's why my favourite never wins lol
It's party only if every single song sounds like Moldova 2022 🤣
We used to have parties, 20-40 years ago, but I remember one year a couple turned up in 'bad-taste 70's clothes', I wasn't happy at all, you *don't* turn up at someone's Eurovision party and take the pee, so it declined after that (also I kept getting older...). I'm now down to hosting my favourite 2 men on Eurovision night, I've watched it with them every year for 30 and 39 years, it's still the best night of the year, regardless... but I rarely listen to the songs outside of Eurovision season.
We used to have parties, 20-40 years ago, but I remember one year a couple turned up in 'bad-taste 70's clothes', I wasn't happy at all, you *don't* turn up at someone's Eurovision party and take the pee, so it declined after that (also I kept getting older...). I'm now down to hosting my favourite 2 men on Eurovision night, I've watched it with them every year for 30 and 39 years, it's still the best night of the year, regardless... but I rarely listen to the songs outside of Eurovision season.
@@sophiapangloss2149"party" not "a party" 😂
Hi, I should probably watch this video before commenting, but Cha Cha Cha was something fun and not depressing. Maybe it’s because I had a rough year and Cha Cha Cha really hyped me up.