Are Trophies and Achievements Ruining Games?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- In this video I talk about trophies and achievements, these two things have become a huge part of games ever since the ps3 and xbox 360 era and people are obsessed with them (I am one of these people). So the question is, are these acheivements and trophies ruining games?
Edited by: / root_felix_bjorn
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The moment I gave up on trophies altogether was when they started to include multiplayer ones
Yup, extra sucks if these are multiplayer trophies for games that have shut down their online modes.
Don't remind me. Those are definetly the worst ones, especially for older games. So I just don't bother with getting all the trophies and just enjoy playing the games campaign modes casually.
I'm not an achievement/trophy hunter, and honestly half of the reason why I'm not that is because perfectly fine singleplayer games just randomly have stupid ass multiplayer achievements, presumably so the developers "nudge" players to try their shitty multiplayer modes.
The other half of the reason is because the hardest achievements usually have nothing to do with actually normally playing the game - like, the Pathfinder CRPGs have achievements for beating the "unfair" difficulty - what the fuck is that about it's literally called "unfair" it's just a metagame challenge made for fun, why is beating that RNG-fest an "achievement"???
When achievements are done well (aka when they give you motivation and goals that are fun and actually a fair challenge) they can extend your play time and give you more content you might have missed otherwise, all while forcing you to improve at the game and play it even better than you thought you could (for example Hades' 100% is fun, Nioh 2 100% was mostly fun (some of the collection achievements were meh but oh well) etc).
Exactly the case for me in F1 series.🤣
i like multi player games, but dam i run into a lot of lobbies with completionist who have no intent of playing a match and are just fishing for achievements, that said i don't want achievements in multi player either lol
They've been doing that for years. Complete a million mind-numbing, difficult, pointless tasks that don't gel with normal gameplay and would be impossible without a guide...or be haunted by the lack of completion.
yakuza: like a majhong
Exactly! Well said. Trophy hunting ruins the gaming experience for me, big time! I have only 7 steam games, and none of them are marked as "perfect". Why not? I've seen the credits screen. Mark them as "beaten and played through" please! Only nerds would hunt for pointless achievements like "play the game thru as fast as you can" or "don't get killed once in the game". So unless you go through this torture, you count as a "loser gamer" from the dev's standpoint? Gosh... how I hate this 100%'ing games and achievement hunting, I can't put it to words!
I had this achievement-hunting addiction last year and I can say it's exactly that - an addiction which can ruin the enjoyment of playing games or simply experimenting with different and new genres. It got to the point where I would refuse to play good games just because they are hard to 100%. I'm currently "recovering" (lol) from it and I started not caring. They should be either completely reworked or made very easy as a way to track your progress, motivate the player to try something new in a game they enjoy, find some secret/easter egg, etc.
What I want is an option to turn them completely off. It's not so easy to give up trophy hunting when I have obsessive compulsive disorder.
Even if I hide the notifications, I know that they're still happening in the background on my ps5. So I end up turning them on again and hating this cycle that I seemingly can't get myself out of.
I used to absolutely adore FF7 Rebirth. But the rulers of the outer worlds brutal challenge is making me start to not even like the game anymore.
@@fall-neckthetallneck2977 Yeah that's me too.
Stupid thing is, Microsoft invented achievements, so you could trade in the points for free xbox live arcade games, then pulled back at the final moment.
I play through a game, then look at achievements that I still haven’t gotten. If they don’t take forever and a day, I’ll go for them
This is my approach
Same here. If they are not hard to get, I'll do them. But otherwise, only nerds would hunt for pointless difficult achievements like "play the game thru as fast as you can" or "don't get killed once in the game". So unless you go through this torture, you count as a "loser gamer" from the dev's standpoint? Gosh... how I hate this 100%'ing games and achievement hunting, I can't put it to words!
Trophies are cool and all but so many games require WAY TO MUCH time to complete. As soon as i roll credits and see all i want im on to next game. It would be agonizing trying to complete many games. I actually like to have FUN when gaming!
The hell rush trophies ruined Neon White for me. The game is about bitesize 30 second level speedruns, that’s the main challenge and that’s what makes it fun. White’s hell rush is a run of the full game with one life, where some of the hazards can instakill you, which goes against the entire gameplay loop. I criticised this on the Discord, and they said “it’s meant to be hard”. I mentioned that it would make more sense for the platinum to require dev times instead, as it’s a more challenging yet less frustrating objective, with less time lost to failure, they said “that’s too hard, so it should be optional”. Weird people.
I mean that's entirely fair.
It's supposed to be a challenge.
Having something that is pure skill is good
@@GG_NowaWhich is why it would make more sense for the dev medals to have trophies and for the hell rushes to be optional; The dev medals require mastery over every level, whereas the hell rushes can cost you around an hour over the most minor slip-up, but you don’t need to play especially well, you just need to survive. I did both and the dev medals were more satisfying because it actually felt like my practice had paid off and failed attempts would only cost me 2 minutes at most.
Depends on the developers and the person. Achievements are a wonderful thing that, like you said, can have you expand your playstyle while also having you find things you usually wouldn't because without any clues to do so would have you stick to how you usually would play or go through a game. So I think they are awesome in that aspect, but then you get terrible ones that are unbearable(bolt achievement) or are very difficult so they drive you insane because you want to fully complete a game you love but it tortures you lol(hardcore ironman type achievements). So long as developers input the correct achievements then I think they should keep it going, hell, start putting even more random ones too cuz they can be funny as well. I only chase full completion on games I love very much or do personal completions like doing most but ignoring multiplayer/super hardcore difficulty ones.
Glitched Trophies/ achievements are the worst feeling
Agreed
here, here
The most stupid thing is that there is 1 achievement/trophy for spending another "100 hours" to complete a game again in NG+.
Then there is the Bomberman Act Zero on Xbox 360 where you need to place 1 million bombs for a achievement...
Some actually wasted who knows how many weeks or months on that one.
I mainly play games just to enjoy them. Trophies and achievements are just bonuses on the side. But I'm just happy playing the game and getting the most out of it. Sometimes I get Trophies and achievements without trying. I either don't know what they are or just get them by playing the game. They're nice to get but they don't mean everything if you ask me.
POV: Idk dude I think trophy hunting Toy Story Mania on PS3 was worth 30 hours
I like looking at achievement stats on Steam to see how far players have gotten in the game and what the percentage of accomplishments is for certain things.
I never got into achievements too much, and mostly hated them at times. Seemed to add to an already toxic community and/or created very hollow ways to try to lengthen the time spent with a game. I feel interfaces are designed to shove achievements in your face as well.
To be fair, I do think some games do achievements well. I think if they're sensible and there's not too many in accordance to the size of the game, it can be fun to put a little extra time in a game you enjoy and pick up whatever achievements you don't have. Indie games in particular I think are better at that balance. But overall it feels like that's only like 5% of the time in my opinion. So ultimately there's just far too much negative with them than positive for me to get behind them.
Ac unity: we got the most collectibles
Ac valhalla: “laughs historically”😈
the backlog ad at the end was the best ad ive ever seen
2:25 If this isn't proof that Nintendo hates their fans, then I don't know what it is
Singelplayer games with multiplayer trophies like tomb raider and tlou and games with stupid amounts of collectibles like assassins creed are killing console games for me!
You know you dont have to do them? Just play the game the way you want?
Tlou multiplayer was a ton of fun back in the days, i got the platinum trophy on ps3 and it was really a blast to do it
@@andreberclet3733 But if it isnt fun, it just feels pointless.
Batman Arkhan Knight have about 240 colectables and most of them with puzzles, and you have to collect all for finish the game
Many people that like trophies say they enjoy doing things they would have never done otherwise and I get that and also liked that aspect sometimes but after many years my opinion changed. Today I think trophies slow down my playthrough for no reason.
Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy VI are some of my favorite games of all times that I played a dozen of times on the SNES over the years and I was excited to platinum them. It's not hard to achieve but when I played the remake and the pixel remaster I was very annoyed that I couldn't leave locations when I was done there. Secret of Mana has an achievement which requires to collect every gear in the game and in the near end game there are monsters with rare drops that are missable if you finish the location. I had to stay there for 3-4 hours to get those rare drops. In the original version I wouldn't have cared and progressed the story, the gear isn't even worth all the hassle. I made similar experiences with Final Fantasy VI where I couldn't leave locations because I had missing bestiary entries or I hadn't open a chest and I couldn't leave until I had those. I love both games but these were my worst playthroughs.
Some achievements are a boring, annoying and agonising drag that shall be perished in the deepest firepits of hell. But others are nice ways to spice up your gameplay or have a little giggle
Im ok with extremely hard challenges like the wolfenstien one
But the tedious ones like run on a horse for 3h and collect 100.000 *game currency* are a big nu uh
I don't mind them but I'm not going to sit there for days trying to 100% a game.
But then you count as a noob and loser gamer in the eyes of others. I dislike that achievement system big time.
“The part where he kills you” is probably the funniest achievement ever because you don’t even get it for doing anything specific or involved, its literally just part of the bit
Those last few line other then backlog thing was soooo relatable i stopped caring about achievements unless its one of those easy and fun plat like playstation exclusive games or resident evil because i am fanboy of that franchise
I just pretend we're on the PS2/PSP era and play like nothing ever happened and like trophies were not a thing, same with all other games I play
As a trophy as of last year I have platinumed 20+ games some ranging from uncharted 4 to Spider-Man to telltales newest game the expanse (highly recommend) and even ones like Ac odyssey or until dawn I’ve done a hell of a lot of and I’m currently going for a plague tale innocence and after that finish up watch dogs legion I love doing these for some game and there are some that I would love to get like Outlast 2 or hell the new one coming to ps5 later this year or like you said in this vid the evil within you just gotta know what your getting yourself into before doing these
The thing is, it´s not an achievment that makes the game fun, it´s the challenge behind getting it. But if that´s the case, why not implement some sort of in-game reward (the easiest one would be some special skin for your character). That way, it encourages you to try out new things in the game, while also giving you some little reward. And then you don’t have to see that Steam achievment pop up, because important is trying that challenge, it´s not about getting a stupid online icon, right? Riiight?
how can achievements ruin games when they 99.9% of the time be ignored and not affect gameplay at all... that makes no sense. If its ruining games for you then just stop achievement hunting. I have to take breaks all the time for this reason.
It's triggering me to get all of them
I just turn off the notification and never look at them. They were fine when I first got my PS3, but when they started adding multiplayer shit to the main set, I stopped. I couldn't care less about online. MANY conditions are a pure waste of time too.
I've turned the sounds off for them and I've never felt they were rewarding to get or strive to get them all unless I enjoyed doing it. However, I like them in the sense that I can look years back and say, okay so I beat [insert game] on this day, and at this time, and compare it to when I played other games and think about what I was doing in life around that time.
I hate trophy they feel pointless
Trophy hunting games makes you pretty much play double the amount of time you would spend on a game for example I never use to care about platinum hunting now I do luckily for me I came from a online gaming community so for me those trophies don’t bother me. The most annoying trophies are missable.
Some of the few games that got the achievement system right was Wolfenstein: the new order, and the old blood. Since the perks translated into a better gameplay experience. But even without perks, gameplay is still excellent.
The 2 examples of who got it wrong were tbogt, and gta5. Since after doing a grueling mission, you get greeted by a 🥉 and shows you objectives of what you missed. So instead of feeling fulfilled after all that work, i feel impotent, and frustrated. So i need to do that mission again. Replaying missions immediately never feels better than the first time.
I only 100% again if I really like it I won’t even bother if you have play it twice or any multiplayer trophies.
Trophies in games should ALWAYS be something where the player will emjoy the game and have more fun by playing for them. Unfirtunately a lot of devs get it backwards and make players hate their game by the end of it.
The problem with trophies are that the devs makes it stupidly hard and nonsense often.
This is how I feel about ff7 rebirth. I’m 100 hours in and there’s no way with my work schedule that I’ll replay it on hard and do all the other crap for another 100 plus hours. I go for platinums that are reasonable and well structured without useless grind.
idk how you choose to go through that torture man lmao. as soon as something isnt pleasurable, i cease chasing it. screw all those achievements.
It has to either be really easy or i have to really like the game to get all achievements
I don't buy games that have no achievements on Steam unless they're online multiplayer only.
The worst thing is when you decide to simply dont play an old game because it doesnt have achievements/trophies
To me, trophies were never meant to be actively achieved. I just see them as acknowledgement of playing a game well or exploring. Actively trying to get every trophy is just stupid to me. Same goes for collectibles, I only pick them up if i find them in the campaign or if they give xp/stats or if theyre fun and there isnt too many of them.
4:53 Just no. I do not need achievements to make me play games in ways I would have never thought of without them. This clearly shows what an otherwise idiotic marketing joke trophies and achievements are. If I never figured another way to play a game because I might not even enjoy doing that, how would trophies change that? To make me feel rewarded? Are developers stupid now? If their games are not rewarding as being games to have fun playing, then trophies will not leave a dent in my gaming life. Just a hollow visual spook when the games tell me that I ever only finished them from anything like 56% up to maybe 78%. Because of achievements nobody asked for to begin with. Replay value is when the game itself is fun.
7:00
Speaking of AC: Unity...
I got all the achievements but I don't got all the achievements. Doesn't make sense, right? What I mean is I first started playing AC Unity during those glitchy days several years ago, and well... even my achievements got glitched, EVEN TO THIS DAY!! Why don't I just replay it you might ask? Well, that's because I'm pretty high ranking in the game, almost max even, and the game has only 1 save, I'm not gonna lose all that progress, and AC Unity is the first AC game since AC1 (aka since 2007) where there's only 1 save too.
I LITERARY got a permanent glitch that will stick with me for the rest of my life cause the game doesn't allows me to start over on a new save. The achievement was just getting that best sword from the DLC, it's that simple, I got the sword but nothing, that's literary the only achievement I have remaining in Unity, no matter how many times I use that sword, achievement never popped up. I was such a big AC fan back than, so I wanted AC to be the first game I got all achievements on the new gen hardware aka Xbox One, only for the game to LITERARY prevent me from doing just that.
That's not the only permanent glitch I encountered too. If you have the best gear, then it'll show 5 golden diamond, but for me it's stuck at 5 silver diamond even when wearing the best gears. ;0;
The only game I got that literary gave me the permanent glitch, even Mass Effect Andromeda didn't gave me one like that.
Titanfall2 has mostly good achievements
The problem is when someone gets all trophies then act like they have superior opinion just because they platinum a game while disregarding players who only play for fun and complete the game
I’m completionist and I have a very big problem with achievement system. Most of the trophies are either no challenge or grind. Games with well designed achievement system are very rare. I was thinking about turning off trophy notifications and don’t give a shit about collecting the trophies but it’s very hard, something is very addicting about it
It feels like it's part of the experience
Play more difficult games, then. They're not as rare as you'd believe if you look for the right games with added challenge or grind.
Assains Creed Valhalla: Töte einen Standartenträger der stärker ist als du (roter Schädel über ihm) ohne seinen Schild zu zerbrechen WÄHREND du brennst.
Warum so ne Grütze?
It definitely is ruining games, it takes all the fun out and is way too time consuming
I don't play games to be presented with chores. There's a huge difference between setting your own challenges in games and following a checklist like a braindead zombie. It's crazy to me that people engage with this type of stuff, but for those of us with OCD, the option should be there to opt out completely.
Ubisoft does have achievements and trophy on the consoles I do not know do other one first assassins creed game I got is assassin creed 3 on ps3 it hade a trophy my thought on them is this 50 50 I can complete it I will if I cannot them give up love on
just ignore them problem solved
Well, but then you "haven't really played the game through, properly" and others who have 100%'ed a game, have! They are "better" than you in some way, in that game. So they saw everything of the game, whereas you only saw "parts" of the game that wait for you to be solved and whatever. Isn't that an annoying feeling for you?
@@shairaptor1865 No I have never cared about trophies and achievements, they give me nothing.
@@imagine_brata3012 That's good! Because I can't stand them either or I just don't care about them.
@@shairaptor1865 dude is lying bro 100!
@@PrismVuxOfficial What do you mean ?
I love TNC but the Mein Leben achievement is ridiculous
Achievements are so useless and break immersion .
Nothing worse than experiencing a really intense cutscene for story purposes and all you see across your screen is “blink, blink,blink,blink”
10g. Best the game on easy
20g. Beat the game in normal
30g. Beat the game on hard
25g. Beat the game on every difficulty
😒
Turn the notifications off lmao
I just came to say yes, yes they are.
Im on quest to play AND platinum ALL soulsborne games
Did you do it?
Just dropped by to say absolutely not
(As an achievement hunter)
Achievements locked behind DLC is sooo annoying!
True
Totally forgot about the million bolts achievement in the first R&C when i played it a few years ago. Was the only trophy i needed to get Platinum.
There's a decent glitch to use if you still want to get it. It'll take a little bit of time but if you can weigh down the circle button you can put the controller down and just watch TV or do something else.
@tylerrichardson3034 I remember doing the glitch but completely forgot to finish it. I think I'll get to it eventually.
As a Platinum Trophy Hunter that's Platinum'd almost all of the Ratchet & Clank games, there are certain games that I've decided I want to complete solely because I love the game / series that much, and there are other games that I've decided I just want to play for fun. It's awesome seeing trophy hunting gain traction on UA-cam and other platforms, but letting digital collectibles determine whether or not you play a game you actually want to play is absurd to me. Great video, definitely subscribing!
In my opinion achievements are cool but i hate the collectables achievements
Trophies always existed to get people involved that have no place in gaming to begin with. Trophies makes them play the game up to 100% once. Seriously. Who ever deleted the entire game data just to collect all trophies again? Nobody does. And when you got all trophies the game is literally over. This artificial replay value is in reality the opposite. Trophies suck just for that alone but there are people that would never play games if it wasn't for them to feel rewarded. They never understand that the games themselves ARE the reward. The reward for being born, doing your stuff in the world outside of your home, job, friends, family etc. Video games are the reward. But most gamers today have no sense to realize shit.
All achievements in Steam can be hacked using the Steam Achievement Manager. And Valve does not punish for it in any way. Therefore, achievements in steam are garbage
i am tired of achievements, well it was fun back in xbox360 days. right now i am just ignoring it and enjoy the game
Ayyy Prey mentioned
I love it's trophies. like killing every human on Talos 1 or finish the game in a certain way
Im a big batman fan. And the Batman Arkham trophies were my favourite, but once i started trophy hunting, it made me hate them.
I see achievements as convenient side quests
If you don't like trophies, you can disable the notification and play without them in mind.
I'm a big trophy wh*re but still often play games without trophies on alt users, or on other platforms (e.g. ps2).
The alt profile is problematic for me. I want my completed games to coexist with the games I don’t care about platinuming but getting passed that barrier is the sticking point. I don’t want to make multiple profiles but can’t bring myself to just enjoy the game without caring for trophies!
@@intergaming8319
Who said anything about creating "multiple" profiles? You only need two: your main account where you care about trophies, and a profile that's not tied to an account where you don'r care about trophies, and you can play anything you want here without regard to the trophies you take or don't take. Only takes a few seconds to make a new user anyway.
I don't understand the need for the trophy games you can complete and trophy games you can't complete to "coexist" on one profile. Get rid of that urge I say.
Honestly, for me, it depends on the game. If I play a game I really like playing, especially when it has a huge replayability, then I actually do my best to get 100%. I 100% completed all InFamous games on PS3, because the games are so much fun. I even went as far as getting a platnium trophy for the first Dead Space game on PS3.
If the sole reason you play a game is for trophies then yes it ruins the experience for that person whether they realise it or not. It’s an addiction.
Well about a sound. There is only one satisfying one - the platinum. The rest are just okey?
Banger video homie, hit the nail on the head a lot here. Pretty much agreed with all of your points!
I removed the notifications of all those trophies, I'm playing to play and giving me a trophy for completing the main mission is honestly.. dumb. I used to be a perfectionist, still sort of am and this just stresses me out and removes the fun. I just want to play. Even in Spiderman 1 on PS5, I realized all the side quests were taking away from me enjoying the game for the sake of collectibles that don't add value to the game and I don't think it adds XP either. They were also getting repetitive. I'm much happier for this, I've also removed my notifications on my phone when I did a social media cleanse (made a video about that on my channel).
Dmc5 platinum broke me
I think achievements are a reason to keep playing a game. Whenever I feel that a specific achievement isn't worth it, i don't push myself to get it
If achievements are the reason to keep playing FOR YOU, than you have no reason to play. You are there for the trophies and not the games.
i like archievements, but i don't force me to make all of them, for me is like "side quests", if the game is good, i see the list and try one as a side quest after finish the game
achievemetns are ruining everything, don't play to win, play because you want to play
What I like about achievements and trophies are, it allows me to experience a lot of gaming content …. I only achievement/trophy hunt when I absolutely love the game … if not then eh whatever
Sometimes there are games that I love, but I won't even start them on a platform that doesn't have achievements, even if that's my only option. Games like Undertale, Mirrors edge,,lego batman and rayman on steam
Trophies/Achievements DO ruin a game. I platinum the Arkham trilogy. But it was sheer torture because of riddler trophies. Literally in the game designed to F with you. My enjoyment of the games went out the window. I
After playing Black Ops 3 I realised how much fun the game can actually be without that BS Personal Decorator achievement. Back in the old days Games never had achievements and Trophies which is what made them fun.
For example when a game has a Checklist for the highest difficulty then it's fun. It's independent to the game and is an actual challenge.
Achievements and trophies for difficulty requirements today are ridiculous like permadeath ones.
Regardless it feels better to do an in-game checklist rather than achievements and trophies on your profile account.
I never thought about treating achievements like challenge runs. Will consider in my design work in the future.
I feel bad for everyone who’s a completionist on Xbox. I got a feeling xbox will shutdown by 2030. Especially after the recent drama
yes they ruined my life
RER4 Trophy list sucks. Hot Take.
I have Mein Leben btw and everyone needs to know
As someone who's reached 1 million gamerscore. I still appreciate the value of completing a task and being rewarded for it. And a lot of games get creative with the names for an achievement or what is required to unlock specific achievements. Sometimes I enjoy looking back at everything I've completed over the years. It's like a digital book of memories. And I'll always want to add more just without the pressure I used to have trying to get 1 million. Now I just enjoy gaming and if I choose to unlock everything then it's just a bonus reward for me.
I try not to care about achievements until I play the Yakuza games, which I love, and have completionism inside the game. It becomes like a really unnecessary addiction trying to complete all of them silly minigames...
I have been personally attacked.
Instead of 100% in the achievements, I hundred percent the game pretty much ignore achievements, but I would do a side quest if it has an arcade mod or something or try and get free stars on all of them and stuff like that, which feels more fun and less of a waste of time, then getting all the achievements
how to make video game achievements actually feel gratifying to get
step one: get rid of all the story progression ones
step two: get rid of all the "do a random obscure thing" ones
step three: only keep the ones that you get for doing an actual challenge
I only hate impossible trophies that i need to finish game on hardest difficulty either buy a timer or just use one weapon or dont use heal etc...
ayy don't disrespect the 250 riddles most of them are pretty fun to do as U get a lil puzzle to do with most of them
You make a better case for achievement hunters ruining games...
I love that sound never gets old for me
Short answer Yes they do
Achievements are very cool, I remember when it was first brought up on my xbox 360, but 100 percenting a game is too much time and too much of a hassle. I like to complete the game around 50%-60% if the achievements are fun to do.
BUt then you didn't see 50% of the game !! Whereas others did! They are better than you, and gives you a noob and loser feeling about a game, or?
@@shairaptor1865 When I mean completing 50%-60% of a game, I'm talking about achievements, gamerscores on xbox or trophies on Playstation etc. I always play a game's story or campaign from to start to finish if the game is good. I don't give a shit to be a sweaty or a try hard for any particular video game. I play video games for fun, not for the approval of candie ass bitches like you that probably just plays COD or some other bullshit live service game.
5:14 name of the game ?
Postal brain damaged
Hahahah... I have like 80 compleated games on my steam account...I just bought Crash 4... I ONLY STARTED THIS STUPID JOURNEY CUZ OF THE PANDEMIC AND NOW I CAN'T STOP AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
I have 0 perfect games on Steam. So what? Are you now a better person than me or? Gosh.. this achivement BS divides society even more, namely into people that are hardcore gamers and others who are "just" casual gamers, that totally ruins all the fun in gaming.
@@shairaptor1865 ... did you read right? I'm not happy about this... I just can't stop.
@@jacobinho86 Oh I see :D
Anyone know the game at 1:59?
Re7
@@Cotar_d Thank you 😊
The concept itself is brilliant and needs to be integrated into every major system IMO (Nintendo could never), but it ultimately comes down to the game, and if the developers appreciate your time. Because achievement should require skill or a full 100% completion of a game, not mind-numbing, tedious tasks that ask you to do the same garbage for 10+ hours. That's not an achievement. That's just boring