I have a dp-12. It's built like a tank. Really high quality firearm. The pump and shoot twice mechanic did not take long to get used to, so don't let that dissuade you from considering it.
I have to agree. The DP-12 is built like a tank, and has never failed to fire. It will eat everything you put through it. I have had some bad experiences with semi auto shotguns. The company that makes these also makes high end shotguns that are up in the $20,000+ price range. They have a patent on the steel they use for their barrels. The manual of arms is not that much different from a regular pump. Very easy to get used to. I don't agree with the loading he described. I can load mine like a normal shotgun.
Had the TS-12 for about 6 months now and to me turning the magazine away from your body is easier.Maybe it's my body mechanics but I have never had an issue with chambering,shooting or rotating the barrel. You do have to be mindful of the chambering with the auto feed if the bolt is open. The safe way until you get used to it is to: Bolt closed, load it, empty it, close the bolt then reload, then charge it. The release is something almost NO reviewer has gone over. It can be easy to accidentally chamber a round while loading. You also have to remember, the TS-12 is more geared towards the military as opposed to consumer. So generally there is a learning curve. I've put close to 2000 rounds downrange and so far it has not fouled on me. The earlier versions and a lot of the demo's would occasionally jam, but not so much now.
The TS 12 is not a shot gun you just pickup & start shooting. Reading the manual & learning to use the features with DUMMY Shot Gun Shells is a great way to get used to it BEFORE a range day. This is not your dad's Remington 870 !
I can tell a quick story that John will understand. When I first started playing guitar, I learned a scale wrong. I practiced that (wrong) every single day for months. When shown my error, I was screwed. My brain had wired itself wrong and imprinted that mess in my head. I learned the right way to play it, but to this day I will revert back to the wrong way if I am not totally focused on it and in high pressure situations. I just cannot completely undo what I did. My first shotgun was a Moss 500. Same thing. I have that imprinted into my head. Under pressure, I promise I will do EXACTLY what you mentioned. I will fire once and try to rack it again. Guaranteed. And even if I practice shooting either one of them for months, I will revert to what's imprinted when the heat is on. That is a quick way to die. I am 52 years old. Can old dogs learn new tricks?
I'm the same way. No matter how long I'm shooting semi, if I'm shooting trap or something where I need to focus and shoot fast, I'll try to rack the semi auto after the first shot.
Draw, Present, Aim, Squeeze is the muscle memory imprinted on me. Specifically, I practice with only two defense guns: S&W 642 & Glock-19. Same simple muscle memory: draw, present, aim, squeeze. Because I'm like most people, average, I like to KISS - keep it simple stupid! Both of these shotguns look like a lot of fun for taking out old kitchen appliances at the town dump (or zombies), but I would never rely on myself to operate either one in a high pressure defense situation. ( I need that Tavor though) !!!
00UncommonSense00 Hey man, at 52 years old? If it’s life or death have your shotgun and a revolver right next to each other. At least you’ll know the revolver won’t get in the way of saving your life.
I've had the DP12 for 3 years now. I put in a few thousand rounds. Reliability is 100%. Cleaning it is a pain. Loading it you want to wear gloves so you don't pinch yourself. Don't go to an indoor range either. The other shooters will get startled and the range safety people will get intimidated. It's a wicked gun that grabs a lot of attention.
I had a DP12 and currently have a TS12. Of the two in my opinion the TS12 is the better gun. One big the Jon didn’t touch on was disassembly, the DP would be a bitch to break down in the field but the TS12 is super simple to break down with no tools. I will say there is a learning curve with the TS, getting the timing down with the switch and tubes takes a few to get fast with it but once you get it it’s really fast. In pictures it looks awkward and bulky but it’s really not it’s almost identical size to my SAR. Really rocking shotgun and I have a case and a half through mine with zero malfunctions , also mine will even run the mini buckshot from Nobel sport so 7 in each tube!
Great video John. Congrats on all the hard work and persistence that goes into building a truly great channel. I’m 30 years old, I have 4 children. All of us watch you and your father shoot the range to pieces. Even my wife gets In on the conversation!
Yea. Take a lot of training to get that into muscle memory but that's a great point. Ts12 has a lot of controls to contend with while also trying to reload/shoot at the same time
I think it was clear that he had not spent much time getting acclimated to the TS12. With some range time firing a bunch of rounds, rotating the magazine becomes much more natural and intuitive, like anything else. Once that happens then you are really just comparing a pump shotgun with a semi auto and all the obvious differences therein. I'll take my TS12
I would personally choose the Tavor, can hold 3 tubes with different loads, simple semi-automatic operation nothing my brain can confuse, i'm left handed and can load it properly, and having one barrel means more consistent accuracy than the double. And the Tavor is just more interesting imo, I like interesting unique guns.
Just remember if you wanna make it lefty you gotta send it back to iwi because of where the ejection port is if you hold it lefty its literally right against your face
I own DP-12 and the biggest problem would be a fast load. However, the major plus is you can use 1.75", 2.75", and 3" with absolute no problem. I loaded 24 short rounds 11 in each tube and chambered the last two. The DP-12 is very accurate with low recoil. I have fired the AR-12, KSG and Mossberg 500. The KSG could not handle the 1.75" and it jammed up pretty bad, the Mossberg 500 kick was two to three times harder than the DP-12 I used only 3", and the AR-12 was shooting 3" only, but was smooth.
I've had a couple handguns for a while now but I stepped up and bought a RUGER556 with my stimulus check lol. That's how I ran into him looking at his review on the 556.
I've got the DP-12, it's actually my first pump shotgun so the issue will be backwards for me - I'd probably try and double tap a regular pump. Loading tip, you can actually double load shells in each chamber if you practice, it's still not much faster though. There is an issue I have that if you hold the trigger between pumps you can sometimes only get 1 pull out of it, or a dead trigger, and be forced to manually release the action. Still to this day trying to find out if it can be legally modified to fire both barrels with 1 trigger pull like their S333 Thunderstruck revolver. The only issue I think it would have, other than causing a dislocated shoulder, would be that it could possibly be classified as a DD if you consider the total barrel diameter.
I have owned a DP-12 since June 2016. The manual of arms is different but by spending time at the range with this weapon, the shooter can overcome the tendency to want to rack the slide after only one trigger pull. As with any weapon new to the shooter, this is easily overcome with time with the weapon. I know because at first I prematurely wanted to rack the slide before the 2nd shot, but now, I don't even have the tendency to to that.
I just got my DP-12, love it. I got the green color, works well with black accessories. I got the optional Lazer/Flashlight grip and an Aimpoint Pro. You can tell there is a lot of quality in the gun. Very well made. Recoil is very nice for a shotgun, it doesn';t hurt you.
The dp12 will not function upside-down and is still pump action thats why I bought the ts 12 sure the 2 barrels look cool but in a sense its still a single cause 1 trigger pull one shot then pump then trigger boom then trigger boom the ts 12 is 5 semi auto booms then twist 5 booms then twist 5 booms much faster people look down on semi auto shotguns because they require high brass to cycle the best part of the ts 12 is it only will require shells at 1200 fps to cycle still 5 bucks for 25 at Walmart cheap range fun! Oh and the ts 12 is actually as short as a mossberg Shockwave and you still get an 18" barrel for velocity ooh I can go on👍
Interesting review. I chose the IWI Tavor TS12 for several reasons, but primarily because it's semi-auto and California legal without modification. Other models that interested me either weren't California legal without modification (generally reducing their capacity) or were longer / more bulky. I like the bullpup style for compactness and close-quarters handling.
@Jordan Winders that's a double sided argument. Basing your firearms on hunting is stupid. Because they're so limited and regulated for ethical and sporting purpose. Now I understand wanting to do more than just go to the range ,but again the second amendment is not for hunting. If you think so ,go buy only single shot weapons to really test your skill.
I like how the TS12 lets you alter ammo for example engaging close targets and moving around a corner only to discover opposition at a greater distance to switch to slug.
I dont think you gave the tavor a fair shake here. The tavor is a tested platform. Just because it's semi auto doesn't mean its not reliable. Your test didnt show any problems with the tavor. If you are so against semi auto shotguns why bother with this video??
This is true. Short stroking a pump can be just as unreliable as a semiauto. However, Tavor needs to update this design. The tubes should rotate automatically like a revolver. Manually rotating the tubes is a terrible design. It also needs a vertical forward grip, because no one wants to put their hand on that forward grip, so close to the barrel exit. That forward grip doesn't keep the support hand from slipping forward. If they changed those two things, it would be the best high capacity bullpup 12 gauge on the market.
@@DDDYLNI’ve been running the Tavor for a couple years now and use the area forward of the tubes and the front end of tubes to grip the gun. I’ve had no problems with my hand sliding forward as I keep rearward pressure, pressing the gun into my shoulder. This grip allows me to rotate the tubes clockwise easily with only one to two fingers without losing my grip and places the empty tube away from my body (right handed shooter) for easy loading of that tube. But, that’s me.
I bought a Tavor, thing jams, it's super picky with its rounds. It needs magnum loads, or HEAVY loads. Made the mistake of trying clay target loads, since I had those in the car at the time. Since I wrongfully thought I was low on 12 gauge ammo, until recently when I discovered that I think 12 gauge is the ammo I have the most of. SO, I'll go back to the range today, with heavier and faster loads and try it with that. BUT Winchester Clay/Small Game loads, not so great. Was within spec of the gun, 1300FPS and 1.125OZ, just jammed. Might need high brass over low brass as well. OTHER THAN THAT, I love ti.
I have the TS12, KSG and a DP12. The DP12 is the best built by far. But the KSG is an overall better gun when not focusing on built quality and materials. The TS12 is what I would take into a fight. KSG guards the house.
@@philthyrich1433 Nope. Runs like a top. I don't think any semi-auto is gonna be as reliable as a pump but after the 100-150 round 'break-in' I haven't had any failures. Easy to field strip and clean too
It seems like the magazine on the Tavor should have 4 or 5 tubes instead of 3. Watching youtube videos of guys rotating the magazine it looks like they are fumbling it a lot, because you have rotate it 120 degrees to get it in place. I am noticing that they grab the magazine twice to rotate it fully into place. If it had 5 tubes you would only have to rotate it 72 degrees, plus then you could hold 25 rounds in the magazine, but then the gun would be heavier. Another thing they could do on the Tavor is put a spring loaded mechanism to rotate the magazine automatically when the final round leaves the tube. The disadvantage though would be you would have to load the gun in a certain order as you rotate the magazine it winds up the spring. Would also need a cover guard around the magazine. The Tavor will then be true semi automatic for up to 15+ shots instead of 5 shots. I am guessing they will come out with a future upgraded version that will address this problem in some way. I would like to get a tavor ts12 though, but maybe I will wait for a new version that fixes these problems.
People only fumble with the magazine because they're not used to it. This gun takes some practice to get really proficient operating it rapidly. Also like anything the rotary magazine gets broken in and rotates a little easier. I've had mine for prob 4 years now or more, and I can flip the magazine tubes quickly and in one single move. The gun is ridiculously fun to shoot, and the recoil is astonishingly minimal.
Dp-12 is one of the most unique, awesome and reliable shotguns on the market. It's definitely a heavy one, but you can feel the quality in its construction and operability. Plus it looks so badass when its decked out. One of the best shotguns I own.
Fight Me weird I thought it was made in Israel, a country that has to protect its citizens from suicide bombers, car attacks, and children being stabbed while they sleep by house intruders.
Ted Moore I mean... do you think I like China? Why would I like China? Anyways, have fun defending the country your government sends trillions of dollars to while saying they can’t afford to give you healthcare. You’re cattle.
One thing about the TS12- you can continue to load it with firing hand easily supporting, aiming and firing if needed- 5 shots in a tactical situation is substantial, load and twist.
I agree. Those are awesome guns. I keep 870’s, 590a1’s & Winchester shot guns around. I’ve never felt under gunned with my old fashion pumps. Good video. Thank you.
Congrats on 5m, you guys have definitely earned it. Your videos are the best on YT! I only have an 870 Wingmaster from the 70s and it only holds 5 rounds, but what it lacks in capacity it more than makes up for in agility and swing. A few years ago I got this bright idea to up the capacity with a longer tube and lighten it with some synthetic stocks. What I got was a clumsy gun I didn’t like shooting. So I put it back the way it was and love shooting it as I always did. As you dad said a few weeks ago, if you have that many enemies andneed that kind of fire power
I used them to decide on a ksg or a dp12 the ksg I saved 200 to 300 over the dp12 so I went with it and never had any issues with the ksg that being said I'd love to have a similar semiautomatic 12ga to go along with the ksg so I'll probably get the ts12 for my next gun the iwi's go through a twenty thousand round torture test for every modification, change and or release to market so reliability they tend to be sound and tried I'll eventually get the dp12 just not yet
Nice video. I always like your videos. I noticed you did not use the mag unlock button at the front of the trigger guard when you rotated the mag tubes on the TS12. Try using that button and you will have much less difficulty rotating the tubes. It is different so training and practice with the TS12 will be needed to develop the necessary muscle memory to run fast with the TS12.
🇺🇸 Congratulations on the 5million subscribers. You an your channel are deffenatly one of the top 5 guntubers. In my OPINION there are only a few of u guys worth while that put out very useful information in a entertaining way that you can trust the info that ulyou r geting. You guys teach valuable FACTS, an u add in your opinion an experiences, witch in my opinion is pretty much just as valuable as the facts coming from a man with knowledge and experience. An I believe Any body looking to buy there first gun or there thousandth has the abilitt to learn something about the firearm there interested in purchasing, or able to just learn about a firearm an the culture suronding this great industry am the second admendmnt from a great reliable source. So thank u for the effort you put in to the content u provide an I truly hope to see u hit 10 million subscribers in the near future u deserve it. 🇺🇸 God Bless An I Hope You An Yours Stay Safe 🇺🇸
Much rather have the IWI Tavor TS 12 semi auto Bullpup as a home defense weapon. Its a Military grade Bullpup that had 20,000 rounds thru it during testing. The ONLY other shot gun tested to these extreme levels is the Benelli M1012 ( M4 ) for the Marines & I believe it was 25,000 rounds thru it during its testing. Also the TS 12 is easy to load & unload. Easy to field strip & clean too. Too many strong points for the TS 12 over the DP 12.
I’ve been drooling over the tavor for a while. Looks like it’d be a better mag cycle if it had a 4 tube mag instead of a 3 tube mag. That would deff reduce the amount of rotation needed to load the next mag and likely keep the shooter on target.
Great comparison. So much of what is ideal with any firearm is application. I have the Tavor T.S. 12 and pullpups with non reciprocating charging handles are ideal where space is at a premium. The loading was also a key decision in choosing the Tavor.
I’ve had my TS12 for awhile. The best and easiest way to ghost load an extra round to get to 17 is load two rounds while bolt is to the rear. Rotate the mag until a round is chambered, then press the nub under the gun behind the loading slots. The second round will move from the tube to the feed tray. Now, all three tubes will be free to load five rounds each. You can also have it loaded to 16, press the nub moving one round from a tube to the tray, then rotate that tube to a loading slot and top off that tube for 17 total. An additional thing I prefer about TS vs DP, the DP double barrel does not allow you to use a suppressor. TS12 can use Salvo 12. Happy zombie hunting!
If i could modify the ts12 i would put a pump on it under the magazine that when pulled rotates the magazine clockwise and have a switch to change it to rotate counterclockwise, I feel like that would make it easier to use as well as more comfortable.
Got my TS12 a few weeks ago and it's awesome, no complaints. BTW just sliding your hand up and rotating the tubes the opposite way he does here is much easier.
I had never heard of the DP12. I was literally days away from ordering a UTS 15 because I got suck of my KSG burning my arm! Now I think I may be shelling out some more money for the DP12... One pump two shots is amazing, especially for home defense where firing one shot is practically a sin. Double tap!
The double-tap is the tactical advantage that you have with the DP-12, which puts you head and shoulders above any assailant who may be trying to hide, figure that you have to rack before you get a 2nd shot off, but....SUPRISE!!! Follow-up shot IMMEDIATELY inbound! The engineering concept behind the DP-12 is ingenious, and in my opinion, is well worth the money.
hickok speaks so serene and calm that I put the vid at x2 speed to see the fire rate of the guns and you can still understand everything he is saying perfectly
That's one way to say you're inexperienced with shotguns, lol. You actually do have to aim shotguns. And it's not a short barrelled gun. It's a bullpup, which means it has full length 18.5 inch barrels. So you just all around have no idea what you're talking about despite your smug, crappy attitude about it. Shut up, potato.
It should be noted that the DP-12 can use minishells, and have a 24 round capacity. 11 in each tube and 1 in each chamber. The tavor ts12 cannot run with minishells.
The bottom feeding is what kills shotguns like the KSG and DP-12 for me. The TS12 looks huge but its loading system is much better IMO, and its semi-auto.
Just ordered an FD-12 bullpup shotgun in distressed bronze. It's a cool Turkish made semi-automatic 12 gauge magazine fed shotgun. Always wanted a bullpup shotty!
Just my experience on loading...I have an excellent (wider and cushioned) 2-point sling that drapes over the back of my neck. With the support of the sling holding up the weapon, I am able to load from underneath. I can load one magazine at a time or I can load both at the same time, maintaining muzzle discipline.
Yea , the sling makes a difference with these shot guns IMO. Improves control over the shot gun & makes recoil easier to handle. I noticed the DP-12 comes with muzzle brakes on its barrels while the TS 12 does not. A company called Manticore Arms makes a muzzle brake for this gun which will reduce recoil by up to 50 to 60 % . Also they make a curved butt end that helps keep more control.
If I was purely honest I love the idea of turning the mag of the srm 1612/1616 as well as the ts12 because you just turn the mag and a new set of rounds is in place for you to just pull the trigger The pump action shotgun is iconic and its what everyone knows how to do since you pull the trigger and pump the shotgun for the next round. For the dp12 you need to shoot twice then pump it I still like the idea of having a set of shotguns in the mag ready for you to pull the trigger then turn the mag for a new set It's just that you can't have both in 1 gun The ts12 is a hybrid between a srm1612 and a striker shotgun that you can kinda manually load like how professional shooters load a benelli shotgun
@@madblank I have the ksg and the tavor ts 12, I wouldnt say the ksg wins. Both are great but I prefer the Tavor. It's been solid, no reliability issues so far which is great for a semi
dp-12 looks like it handles much better and cycles easyer. Also looks like it wont jam. The tavor looks jumpy and complicated. Lots of things to go wrong on that....
Check out the Panzer Arms BP12. Not as clean fit and finish, but it's a solid reliable magazine fed bullpup 12 gauge for a third of the price of these. Mine eats whatever ammo I feed it without any adjustment.
I dunno, I think the low cost and simplicity of a regular old Mossberg pump makes it preferable to these guns, and if I felt I had to have more capacity, I would install an Opsol thingie and run mini-slugs. I do know one thing for certain- 5 million subscribers is awesome!
Actually, if you told me I had to pay $1,000.00 for one of these or a Mossberg 500 A1 and my choice had to be my only shotgun for the next 30 years, I'd pay the 1K for the Mossberg, or an 870.
I have both these guns and the TS12 is by far the easier gun to shoot. My wife loves the TS12 and she will not shoot the DP. I have never had a failure to feed right out of the box. Recoil is minimal for a 12 gauge.
He doesn't talk about the nightmare that you have to go through to break down the DP12. Not sure how easy to break down the TS12 but the DP12 is ridiculous.
A brand new TS12 needs to be broken in especially for rotating the magazine tubes. The index finger release to rotate the magazine tubes is polymer and has some "rough edges" that will smooth out with use. One thing I really like is the ability to quickly change loads from buckshot to slugs (or whatever). One tube loaded with buckshot, another loaded with slugs. With buckshot magazine at the top, rotate the magazine with slugs to the top, press the carrier stop lever forward, cycle the charging handle and you're ready to go with slugs. Yes, you eject an unspent buckshot cartridge.
The FAQ video Playlist is up-to-date: ua-cam.com/play/PL0C8F49BC387A5899.html
Have you ever reviewed the Tristar compact bull pup semi auto shotgun in not can you?
What’s a legit site I can get the dp12 shotgun
@Godblessing777 I linked it but who knows if yt will allow the link just Google standard mfg
I have a dp-12. It's built like a tank. Really high quality firearm. The pump and shoot twice mechanic did not take long to get used to, so don't let that dissuade you from considering it.
Standard manufacturing is really high end. Do you still like this?
I have to agree. The DP-12 is built like a tank, and has never failed to fire. It will eat everything you put through it. I have had some bad experiences with
semi auto shotguns. The company that makes these also makes high end shotguns that are up in the $20,000+ price range. They have a patent on the steel they use for their barrels. The manual of arms is not that much different from a regular pump. Very easy to get used to. I don't agree with the loading he described. I can load mine like a normal shotgun.
I'd get the DP 12 if I could fire both barrels at once, even with an aftermarket modification. Double triggers or whatever.
The trigger resets so fast it is pretty damn close to both at once
They look pretty complicated, does it get jammed often?
Had the TS-12 for about 6 months now and to me turning the magazine away from your body is easier.Maybe it's my body mechanics but I have never had an issue with chambering,shooting or rotating the barrel. You do have to be mindful of the chambering with the auto feed if the bolt is open. The safe way until you get used to it is to: Bolt closed, load it, empty it, close the bolt then reload, then charge it. The release is something almost NO reviewer has gone over. It can be easy to accidentally chamber a round while loading. You also have to remember, the TS-12 is more geared towards the military as opposed to consumer. So generally there is a learning curve. I've put close to 2000 rounds downrange and so far it has not fouled on me. The earlier versions and a lot of the demo's would occasionally jam, but not so much now.
The TS 12 is not a shot gun you just pickup & start shooting. Reading the manual & learning to use the features with DUMMY Shot Gun Shells is a great way to get used to it BEFORE a range day. This is not your dad's Remington 870 !
I can tell a quick story that John will understand. When I first started playing guitar, I learned a scale wrong. I practiced that (wrong) every single day for months. When shown my error, I was screwed. My brain had wired itself wrong and imprinted that mess in my head. I learned the right way to play it, but to this day I will revert back to the wrong way if I am not totally focused on it and in high pressure situations. I just cannot completely undo what I did. My first shotgun was a Moss 500. Same thing. I have that imprinted into my head. Under pressure, I promise I will do EXACTLY what you mentioned. I will fire once and try to rack it again. Guaranteed. And even if I practice shooting either one of them for months, I will revert to what's imprinted when the heat is on. That is a quick way to die. I am 52 years old. Can old dogs learn new tricks?
Good point.
I'm the same way. No matter how long I'm shooting semi, if I'm shooting trap or something where I need to focus and shoot fast, I'll try to rack the semi auto after the first shot.
Draw, Present, Aim, Squeeze is the muscle memory imprinted on me.
Specifically, I practice with only two defense guns: S&W 642 & Glock-19. Same simple muscle memory: draw, present, aim, squeeze. Because I'm like most people, average, I like to KISS - keep it simple stupid!
Both of these shotguns look like a lot of fun for taking out old kitchen appliances at the town dump (or zombies), but I would never rely on myself to operate either one in a high pressure defense situation.
( I need that Tavor though) !!!
After shooting mostly 870 shotguns I still try to rack the benelli m4 when I shoot it, at least makes me chuckle.
00UncommonSense00
Hey man, at 52 years old? If it’s life or death have your shotgun and a revolver right next to each other. At least you’ll know the revolver won’t get in the way of saving your life.
I've had the DP12 for 3 years now. I put in a few thousand rounds. Reliability is 100%. Cleaning it is a pain. Loading it you want to wear gloves so you don't pinch yourself. Don't go to an indoor range either. The other shooters will get startled and the range safety people will get intimidated. It's a wicked gun that grabs a lot of attention.
I had a DP12 and currently have a TS12. Of the two in my opinion the TS12 is the better gun. One big the Jon didn’t touch on was disassembly, the DP would be a bitch to break down in the field but the TS12 is super simple to break down with no tools. I will say there is a learning curve with the TS, getting the timing down with the switch and tubes takes a few to get fast with it but once you get it it’s really fast. In pictures it looks awkward and bulky but it’s really not it’s almost identical size to my SAR. Really rocking shotgun and I have a case and a half through mine with zero malfunctions , also mine will even run the mini buckshot from Nobel sport so 7 in each tube!
Great video John. Congrats on all the hard work and persistence that goes into building a truly great channel. I’m 30 years old, I have 4 children. All of us watch you and your father shoot the range to pieces. Even my wife gets In on the conversation!
I own the Tavor and it’s one of my favorite things. Its beyond fun to shoot and always works. 16 rounds doesn’t hurt either.
17 rounds if you float one under the carrier
You can fire and load that TS12 at the same time......that is you can be at the ready while stuffing rounds by feel, that's smart.
You can do that with a pump or a Super-90 though.
Not with that DP12 you aren't
@@Kimchi_TV_98 You can not fire rounds WHILE reloading with a pump buddy
Yea. Take a lot of training to get that into muscle memory but that's a great point. Ts12 has a lot of controls to contend with while also trying to reload/shoot at the same time
You can technically do that with any shotgun
I think it was clear that he had not spent much time getting acclimated to the TS12. With some range time firing a bunch of rounds, rotating the magazine becomes much more natural and intuitive, like anything else. Once that happens then you are really just comparing a pump shotgun with a semi auto and all the obvious differences therein. I'll take my TS12
I would personally choose the Tavor, can hold 3 tubes with different loads, simple semi-automatic operation nothing my brain can confuse, i'm left handed and can load it properly, and having one barrel means more consistent accuracy than the double. And the Tavor is just more interesting imo, I like interesting unique guns.
Just remember if you wanna make it lefty you gotta send it back to iwi because of where the ejection port is if you hold it lefty its literally right against your face
@@justsomerando718 true, but you can order one already configured for left-handed use.
@@PaulMEdwards i bought mine on a whim from a gun store and tend to just learn to do things with my right hand too to make it easier
Semi auto operation means more maintenance tho
@@hisholiness4537 Not necessarily. Take a look at how the Tavor field strips, it's super easy.
I own DP-12 and the biggest problem would be a fast load. However, the major plus is you can use 1.75", 2.75", and 3" with absolute no problem. I loaded 24 short rounds 11 in each tube and chambered the last two. The DP-12 is very accurate with low recoil. I have fired the AR-12, KSG and Mossberg 500. The KSG could not handle the 1.75" and it jammed up pretty bad, the Mossberg 500 kick was two to three times harder than the DP-12 I used only 3", and the AR-12 was shooting 3" only, but was smooth.
Try UTS-15
New gun owners put Hickok45 over 5mil subs. Good job newbies. And welcome to the sport.
I've had a couple handguns for a while now but I stepped up and bought a RUGER556 with my stimulus check lol. That's how I ran into him looking at his review on the 556.
6.5 million now a year after. wow.
I've got the DP-12, it's actually my first pump shotgun so the issue will be backwards for me - I'd probably try and double tap a regular pump. Loading tip, you can actually double load shells in each chamber if you practice, it's still not much faster though. There is an issue I have that if you hold the trigger between pumps you can sometimes only get 1 pull out of it, or a dead trigger, and be forced to manually release the action.
Still to this day trying to find out if it can be legally modified to fire both barrels with 1 trigger pull like their S333 Thunderstruck revolver. The only issue I think it would have, other than causing a dislocated shoulder, would be that it could possibly be classified as a DD if you consider the total barrel diameter.
The idea of modifying a gun like this in such a way sounds like a bad idea. Might deactivate the safety without knowing. Still like this however?
I have owned a DP-12 since June 2016. The manual of arms is different but by spending time at the range with this weapon, the shooter can overcome the tendency to want to rack the slide after only one trigger pull. As with any weapon new to the shooter, this is easily overcome with time with the weapon. I know because at first I prematurely wanted to rack the slide before the 2nd shot, but now, I don't even have the tendency to to that.
We're picking up the Tavor TS12!!! Our new baby! Love how easy it is to load and the rotating tubes are sweet!!
I just got my DP-12, love it. I got the green color, works well with black accessories. I got the optional Lazer/Flashlight grip and an Aimpoint Pro. You can tell there is a lot of quality in the gun. Very well made. Recoil is very nice for a shotgun, it doesn';t hurt you.
I'd prefer the DP-12 between the two but a AA-12 would be nice :-)
Exactly, it's not complicated it's not a hassle to load and it has fairly low recoil
If you can find one that is
The dp12 will not function upside-down and is still pump action thats why I bought the ts 12 sure the 2 barrels look cool but in a sense its still a single cause 1 trigger pull one shot then pump then trigger boom then trigger boom the ts 12 is 5 semi auto booms then twist 5 booms then twist 5 booms much faster people look down on semi auto shotguns because they require high brass to cycle the best part of the ts 12 is it only will require shells at 1200 fps to cycle still 5 bucks for 25 at Walmart cheap range fun! Oh and the ts 12 is actually as short as a mossberg Shockwave and you still get an 18" barrel for velocity ooh I can go on👍
@@petejimenez425 Why would you shoot a gun upside down?
@@GothicSoldier9000 my friend when protecting family home and property 1 must prepare and be ready for anything in a CQB situation
Y'all are doing SOMETHING RIGHT
5 MILLION....WOW...
THATS AMAZING
GOD BLESS YOU BOTH
KEEP UP THE GREAT JOB
Congrats Mr Hickok 45 Sir and John on 5 million subscribers!! That is a tribute to all your hard work and honesty and transparency!! Thank you both
...for when you absolutely, positively must stop a herd of charging brontosaurus.
..... accept no substitute..... unless you have an Apache. Always use the Apache.
And I can’t wait...
Naw that's what the .577 Tyrannosaur is for.
Interesting review. I chose the IWI Tavor TS12 for several reasons, but primarily because it's semi-auto and California legal without modification. Other models that interested me either weren't California legal without modification (generally reducing their capacity) or were longer / more bulky. I like the bullpup style for compactness and close-quarters handling.
I'm in NY and agree with you 100%. I have nothing against a Mossberg pump, but THIS is special.
Those guns are really cool but you're right I think I'll stick with my pump shotgun old school feel more comfortable
Eric Landau until you shoot one
I'll just stick to my mossberg
@Jordan Winders that's a double sided argument. Basing your firearms on hunting is stupid. Because they're so limited and regulated for ethical and sporting purpose. Now I understand wanting to do more than just go to the range ,but again the second amendment is not for hunting. If you think so ,go buy only single shot weapons to really test your skill.
I like how the TS12 lets you alter ammo for example engaging close targets and moving around a corner only to discover opposition at a greater distance to switch to slug.
That is if your sure you know what tube has the slugs or maybe it has the bird shot or non lethal ?
@@ag4allgood Shit, if it really comes down to that situation- I’m painting the tubes different colors lmao.
@@trentononeill5493 lol
@@trentononeill5493I was thinking the exact same thing.
I dont think you gave the tavor a fair shake here. The tavor is a tested platform. Just because it's semi auto doesn't mean its not reliable. Your test didnt show any problems with the tavor. If you are so against semi auto shotguns why bother with this video??
This is true. Short stroking a pump can be just as unreliable as a semiauto. However, Tavor needs to update this design. The tubes should rotate automatically like a revolver. Manually rotating the tubes is a terrible design. It also needs a vertical forward grip, because no one wants to put their hand on that forward grip, so close to the barrel exit. That forward grip doesn't keep the support hand from slipping forward. If they changed those two things, it would be the best high capacity bullpup 12 gauge on the market.
@@DDDYLNI’ve been running the Tavor for a couple years now and use the area forward of the tubes and the front end of tubes to grip the gun. I’ve had no problems with my hand sliding forward as I keep rearward pressure, pressing the gun into my shoulder. This grip allows me to rotate the tubes clockwise easily with only one to two fingers without losing my grip and places the empty tube away from my body (right handed shooter) for easy loading of that tube. But, that’s me.
Exactly!
I would prefer the tavor. Great vid
I bought a Tavor, thing jams, it's super picky with its rounds. It needs magnum loads, or HEAVY loads. Made the mistake of trying clay target loads, since I had those in the car at the time. Since I wrongfully thought I was low on 12 gauge ammo, until recently when I discovered that I think 12 gauge is the ammo I have the most of. SO, I'll go back to the range today, with heavier and faster loads and try it with that. BUT Winchester Clay/Small Game loads, not so great. Was within spec of the gun, 1300FPS and 1.125OZ, just jammed. Might need high brass over low brass as well. OTHER THAN THAT, I love ti.
Awesome job, John! I’ll take both! Congratulations to you both on 5 million subs!
I have the TS12, KSG and a DP12. The DP12 is the best built by far. But the KSG is an overall better gun when not focusing on built quality and materials. The TS12 is what I would take into a fight. KSG guards the house.
Super happy with the TS12. Sent 600-700 rounds down range so far. Very reliable past the short break-in period.
@@marcmonge3704 DID YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH IT?
@@philthyrich1433 Nope. Runs like a top. I don't think any semi-auto is gonna be as reliable as a pump but after the 100-150 round 'break-in' I haven't had any failures. Easy to field strip and clean too
It seems like the magazine on the Tavor should have 4 or 5 tubes instead of 3. Watching youtube videos of guys rotating the magazine it looks like they are fumbling it a lot, because you have rotate it 120 degrees to get it in place. I am noticing that they grab the magazine twice to rotate it fully into place. If it had 5 tubes you would only have to rotate it 72 degrees, plus then you could hold 25 rounds in the magazine, but then the gun would be heavier. Another thing they could do on the Tavor is put a spring loaded mechanism to rotate the magazine automatically when the final round leaves the tube. The disadvantage though would be you would have to load the gun in a certain order as you rotate the magazine it winds up the spring. Would also need a cover guard around the magazine. The Tavor will then be true semi automatic for up to 15+ shots instead of 5 shots.
I am guessing they will come out with a future upgraded version that will address this problem in some way. I would like to get a tavor ts12 though, but maybe I will wait for a new version that fixes these problems.
Agree on your points about the TS12.
People only fumble with the magazine because they're not used to it. This gun takes some practice to get really proficient operating it rapidly. Also like anything the rotary magazine gets broken in and rotates a little easier. I've had mine for prob 4 years now or more, and I can flip the magazine tubes quickly and in one single move. The gun is ridiculously fun to shoot, and the recoil is astonishingly minimal.
This video shows me to love my 870 DM even more.
Congratulations on 5 million subscribers!
Always appreciate y’all from Texas ^^
Dp-12 is one of the most unique, awesome and reliable shotguns on the market. It's definitely a heavy one, but you can feel the quality in its construction and operability. Plus it looks so badass when its decked out. One of the best shotguns I own.
Just watching the vid and you mentioning it has made me more intrigued with the firearm.
I'll take the pump! The semi auto seemed to be a little weird.
joel simms Plus it’s manufactured by a government that sanctions the murder of unarmed children
I didn't realize it was manufactured in China. Thanks for the heads up.
Fight Me weird I thought it was made in Israel, a country that has to protect its citizens from suicide bombers, car attacks, and children being stabbed while they sleep by house intruders.
pistonpoweruk cite one example for each of those in the last year
Ted Moore I mean... do you think I like China? Why would I like China? Anyways, have fun defending the country your government sends trillions of dollars to while saying they can’t afford to give you healthcare. You’re cattle.
I own the ts12 and I love it, however I don’t recommend using 3” shells in it because I kept getting stove pipes.
But I’d choose the iwi over the dp12
I think they just banned those in Canada lol
I think they banned freedom in Canada
@Huwhite Devil so am I but then again just because you live on American soil doesn't mean you're in America 😂
cough cough (california, new york)
@Nightingale getting ready to sell it to china
@westbender 820 they likely dog you till the end as to how and were they fell into the fast flowing water
Dp 12 is still legal in Canada, the tavor is semi auto with more then 5 rounds and a barrel length less then 18.5 so it's never been legal.
I know I been up too late when I see a hickock notification lol
Same
Luckily for me I work til 3 ac m so I'm wide awake
After this, I like the DP12. Gonna go get me one.
IMO its muscle memory and time on the range
One thing about the TS12- you can continue to load it with firing hand easily supporting, aiming and firing if needed- 5 shots in a tactical situation is substantial, load and twist.
I agree. Those are awesome guns. I keep 870’s, 590a1’s & Winchester shot guns around. I’ve never felt under gunned with my old fashion pumps. Good video. Thank you.
Love my TS12. Runs flawlessly
Congrats on 5m, you guys have definitely earned it. Your videos are the best on YT! I only have an 870 Wingmaster from the 70s and it only holds 5 rounds, but what it lacks in capacity it more than makes up for in agility and swing. A few years ago I got this bright idea to up the capacity with a longer tube and lighten it with some synthetic stocks. What I got was a clumsy gun I didn’t like shooting. So I put it back the way it was and love shooting it as I always did. As you dad said a few weeks ago, if you have that many enemies andneed that kind of fire power
Just ordered a Tavor. Fired up, I is 😸
One year later...How do you like your Tavor?
@@truewealth50 Oh no looks like Stuart is a victim of the zombie apocalypse !
You made the right choice, I won't even look at another bullpup.
I'm in the market for a high capacity shotgun. I wanted a mag fed until I saw these. I'm going with the Tavor 1st and the DP12 second.
I used them to decide on a ksg or a dp12 the ksg I saved 200 to 300 over the dp12 so I went with it and never had any issues with the ksg that being said I'd love to have a similar semiautomatic 12ga to go along with the ksg so I'll probably get the ts12 for my next gun the iwi's go through a twenty thousand round torture test for every modification, change and or release to market so reliability they tend to be sound and tried I'll eventually get the dp12 just not yet
Nice video. I always like your videos. I noticed you did not use the mag unlock button at the front of the trigger guard when you rotated the mag tubes on the TS12. Try using that button and you will have much less difficulty rotating the tubes. It is different so training and practice with the TS12 will be needed to develop the necessary muscle memory to run fast with the TS12.
🇺🇸 Congratulations on the 5million subscribers. You an your channel are deffenatly one of the top 5 guntubers. In my OPINION there are only a few of u guys worth while that put out very useful information in a entertaining way that you can trust the info that ulyou r geting. You guys teach valuable FACTS, an u add in your opinion an experiences, witch in my opinion is pretty much just as valuable as the facts coming from a man with knowledge and experience. An I believe Any body looking to buy there first gun or there thousandth has the abilitt to learn something about the firearm there interested in purchasing, or able to just learn about a firearm an the culture suronding this great industry am the second admendmnt from a great reliable source. So thank u for the effort you put in to the content u provide an I truly hope to see u hit 10 million subscribers in the near future u deserve it. 🇺🇸 God Bless An I Hope You An Yours Stay Safe 🇺🇸
IWI for me I feel I could get behind the rotation fairly easily, and the much better loading method wins it for me.
Absolutely outstanding guys 5 million subscribers
Been waiting for this video for a long time thank you John excellent review as always
Much rather have the IWI Tavor TS 12 semi auto Bullpup as a home defense weapon. Its a Military grade Bullpup that had 20,000 rounds thru it during testing. The ONLY other shot gun tested to these extreme levels is the Benelli M1012 ( M4 ) for the Marines & I believe it was 25,000 rounds thru it during its testing. Also the TS 12 is easy to load & unload. Easy to field strip & clean too. Too many strong points for the TS 12 over the DP 12.
I’ve been drooling over the tavor for a while. Looks like it’d be a better mag cycle if it had a 4 tube mag instead of a 3 tube mag. That would deff reduce the amount of rotation needed to load the next mag and likely keep the shooter on target.
Great comparison. So much of what is ideal with any firearm is application. I have the Tavor T.S. 12 and pullpups with non reciprocating charging handles are ideal where space is at a premium. The loading was also a key decision in choosing the Tavor.
I’ve had my TS12 for awhile. The best and easiest way to ghost load an extra round to get to 17 is load two rounds while bolt is to the rear. Rotate the mag until a round is chambered, then press the nub under the gun behind the loading slots. The second round will move from the tube to the feed tray. Now, all three tubes will be free to load five rounds each. You can also have it loaded to 16, press the nub moving one round from a tube to the tray, then rotate that tube to a loading slot and top off that tube for 17 total. An additional thing I prefer about TS vs DP, the DP double barrel does not allow you to use a suppressor. TS12 can use Salvo 12. Happy zombie hunting!
Thanks for the review John ! Both are great looking shotguns ! I’m running a Benelli M1 Super 90
I know its hard to be entertaining person like Mr Hickok, but this gent is and will do his best to keep us informed and entertained. 👍👍
I want a DP-12!!
@@docholliday3666 1500, within reach of a decent savings.
Sending love from St. Louis missouri. Thank you cousin John and uncle hickock. I tune in every new video, and now I have to buy my 4th shotgun haha
If i could modify the ts12 i would put a pump on it under the magazine that when pulled rotates the magazine clockwise and have a switch to change it to rotate counterclockwise, I feel like that would make it easier to use as well as more comfortable.
Got my TS12 a few weeks ago and it's awesome, no complaints. BTW just sliding your hand up and rotating the tubes the opposite way he does here is much easier.
I agree.
I had never heard of the DP12. I was literally days away from ordering a UTS 15 because I got suck of my KSG burning my arm! Now I think I may be shelling out some more money for the DP12... One pump two shots is amazing, especially for home defense where firing one shot is practically a sin. Double tap!
Get a UTS!
The double-tap is the tactical advantage that you have with the DP-12, which puts you head and shoulders above any assailant who may be trying to hide, figure that you have to rack before you get a 2nd shot off, but....SUPRISE!!! Follow-up shot IMMEDIATELY inbound! The engineering concept behind the DP-12 is ingenious, and in my opinion, is well worth the money.
hickok speaks so serene and calm that I put the vid at x2 speed to see the fire rate of the guns and you can still understand everything he is saying perfectly
This man doesnt realizes he has 5 mil subs
His dad has.
Give him a chance, his dad started out shaky. Now look at him.
The son is so boring. I hate to say it but I'm not entertained and don't care to watch now. And this guy is just advertisement central
Jones exactly
Mike Y but its corona time
My friend has the dp12 and the double barrel is difficult to sight in because one barrel sighted in makes the other shoot off to the side.
how tf does that matter on a 12g shotgun?
@@Invisus_Letum because some people prefer accuracy rather than shooting Willy Nilly and hoping you hit something.
its a 12g shotgun, a short barreled one at that, there isn't such a degree of accuracy for this to be an issue
@@Invisus_Letumwhat if u are shooting slugs for bear defense
That's one way to say you're inexperienced with shotguns, lol. You actually do have to aim shotguns.
And it's not a short barrelled gun. It's a bullpup, which means it has full length 18.5 inch barrels.
So you just all around have no idea what you're talking about despite your smug, crappy attitude about it. Shut up, potato.
It should be noted that the DP-12 can use minishells, and have a 24 round capacity. 11 in each tube and 1 in each chamber. The tavor ts12 cannot run with minishells.
To load the dp-12 flip it upside down and rest on your shoulder and grab a hand full of shells and pop em in, super quick that way.
Really like BOTH of these firearms for home defense, just ordered the TS12.
I want that pump for sure. I can't imagine enjoying that rotating magazine on the semi automatic even with adequate practicing
They just banned everything in Canada, especially your freedom. However, I would just refuse to comply
Do you own illegally converted full auto guns and unregistered SBRs/SBSs? If not, you comply
The bottom feeding is what kills shotguns like the KSG and DP-12 for me. The TS12 looks huge but its loading system is much better IMO, and its semi-auto.
Both awesome...I would take the Tavor in a fight. More fire control, ease of loading more than one type of ammo which is key for a shotty.
Yep
Bro the DP12 can shoot any type of 12g
That DP-12 is crazy. Pump once, shoot twice, mercy. I wouldn't want to be on the muzzle end of that thing.
Dp 12 - 👍
Congrats on 5 million subscribers.
YeeeeeHaaaaaa!!!!!
Just ordered an FD-12 bullpup shotgun in distressed bronze. It's a cool Turkish made semi-automatic 12 gauge magazine fed shotgun. Always wanted a bullpup shotty!
Hickok, could you please do a video on a SIG MCX Virtus?
Congrats on 5MIL SUBS!
As a shotgun fan i can personally say in my opinion, “shotguns are weird”. (But cool)
Just my experience on loading...I have an excellent (wider and cushioned) 2-point sling that drapes over the back of my neck. With the support of the sling holding up the weapon, I am able to load from underneath. I can load one magazine at a time or I can load both at the same time, maintaining muzzle discipline.
Yea , the sling makes a difference with these shot guns IMO. Improves control over the shot gun & makes recoil easier to handle. I noticed the DP-12 comes with muzzle brakes on its barrels while the TS 12 does not. A company called Manticore Arms makes a muzzle brake for this gun which will reduce recoil by up to 50 to 60 % . Also they make a curved butt end that helps keep more control.
here in Brazil I can never have one, government forbids, congratulations to the channel.
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Can a private person own any guns in Brazil?
You can have handguns no?
If I was purely honest
I love the idea of turning the mag of the srm 1612/1616 as well as the ts12 because you just turn the mag and a new set of rounds is in place for you to just pull the trigger
The pump action shotgun is iconic and its what everyone knows how to do since you pull the trigger and pump the shotgun for the next round. For the dp12 you need to shoot twice then pump it
I still like the idea of having a set of shotguns in the mag ready for you to pull the trigger then turn the mag for a new set
It's just that you can't have both in 1 gun
The ts12 is a hybrid between a srm1612 and a striker shotgun that you can kinda manually load like how professional shooters load a benelli shotgun
These somehow make the KSG look simple
KSG already won.
@@madblank I have the ksg and the tavor ts 12, I wouldnt say the ksg wins. Both are great but I prefer the Tavor. It's been solid, no reliability issues so far which is great for a semi
@@offthewallhobbyman6978 What about KSG vs DP12 ?
@Evo Shift the KSG is garbage compared to the DP12. The DP12 was built with quality in mind.
@@1tokeover And quantity. The TS-12 was built with speed and reliability (IWI's 20k torture test per platform) in mind, but ergonomics? Err...
dp-12 looks like it handles much better and cycles easyer. Also looks like it wont jam. The tavor looks jumpy and complicated. Lots of things to go wrong on that....
DP 12 for the win 👌🏽
No!!! Tavor one love)
Mega cool pump DP-12, congratulations to the channel.
I’d be more interested in seeing the TS12 compared to the SRM 1216 since they both have the same magazine system
But the SRM costs $500 to $600 more.
I bought the DP-12 earlier this week for one reason. The Tavor is illegal in NY while the DP-12 is not.
Check out the Panzer Arms BP12. Not as clean fit and finish, but it's a solid reliable magazine fed bullpup 12 gauge for a third of the price of these. Mine eats whatever ammo I feed it without any adjustment.
You video is a year old but what an awesome video! I was not sure which of these guns I wanted to buy but I am now thanks to your video.
I have the TS12, and it is fantastic. Love it! I'll be adding the DS12 soon enough, though😊
I dunno, I think the low cost and simplicity of a regular old Mossberg pump makes it preferable to these guns, and if I felt I had to have more capacity, I would install an Opsol thingie and run mini-slugs.
I do know one thing for certain- 5 million subscribers is awesome!
Actually, if you told me I had to pay $1,000.00 for one of these or a Mossberg 500 A1 and my choice had to be my only shotgun for the next 30 years, I'd pay the 1K for the Mossberg, or an 870.
Happy 5 million subs Hickok!
I have both these guns and the TS12 is by far the easier gun to shoot. My wife loves the TS12 and she will not shoot the DP. I have never had a failure to feed right out of the box. Recoil is minimal for a 12 gauge.
I’ll forego both of these fine firearms and go with a Remington V3 tac-13 !
Im a simple man. I hear IWI. I click
Word
Congratulations on the 5 million subscribers , John !!!!!!!!!!!!
5 million people can't be all wrong. Thanks for all the work you guys have put into this.
It was quite clear the TS12 is the superior firearm. The problem was you. You haven’t practiced enough with it to get use to the magazine rotation.
He doesn't talk about the nightmare that you have to go through to break down the DP12. Not sure how easy to break down the TS12 but the DP12 is ridiculous.
A brand new TS12 needs to be broken in especially for rotating the magazine tubes. The index finger release to rotate the magazine tubes is polymer and has some "rough edges" that will smooth out with use. One thing I really like is the ability to quickly change loads from buckshot to slugs (or whatever). One tube loaded with buckshot, another loaded with slugs. With buckshot magazine at the top, rotate the magazine with slugs to the top, press the carrier stop lever forward, cycle the charging handle and you're ready to go with slugs. Yes, you eject an unspent buckshot cartridge.
Out of the two the dp12 hands down
I own a dp12 and absolutely love it. Though I’d really love to try out the ts12 just to see what it’s like