Stress Free Lathe Chuck Removal and Shop Chemical Warnings !!!
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- Опубліковано 29 бер 2024
- If you use CRC Evapo-Rust or Anchor Lube, you might want to watch this short video. I've also included a segment on removing a heavy lathe chuck with ease.
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Joe, You consistently demonstrate that you can teach an old dog new tricks! Thank you!
CRC really needs to put that info on the Evaporust bottle, so ppl are aware of this issue!!
I had no idea this was the reason why a bunch of the carbon steel knives I was refinishing for customers ended up turning jet black after soaking them in evaporust.
I was so pissed bc each one took over an hour to remove the black coating that had built up. I ended up taking a loss on those jobs, bc I couldn't see charging the customers for that time as it wasn't their fault the solution I chose to use to remove the rust ended turning them jet black.
I was so frustrated that I just stopped buying evaporust and switched back to using White Vinegar then CLR for rust removal and just dealt with the smell.
Evapo-rust always leaves whatever carbon was in the oxidized steel. Usually it washes off and is one of the cool things about it. It only removes the oxidized iron.
There is one serious mistake you can make. If you leave anything partially covered, you will get a cut-line at the air-liquid interface because the steel will keep oxidizing from the air and be removed by the Evapo-rust along that interface. Leave it overnight and you can get a pretty dramatic line and ruin a part. So remember it is submerge or don't try. You CAN use a pump and flood a part but don't do it for more than 20 minutes to an hour, depending on temperature. If you can use an oxygen free atmosphere like fill the container with nitrogen or argon, then you can flip parts over and so on for extended periods.
I see this a lot de-rusting parts for machine tool restoration. I have found that an ultrasonic cleaner with a water + detergent solution will remove most of it, but the stubborn stuff needs a VERY fine wire wheel. As you pointed out, if you knew about the staining, you'd just fine-wheel the rust off in the first place. I have to to find a chemical that just dissolves it, but i'm sure there's something out there.
Another tool I suspect you have available is a case tumbler. I have a very old lyman 1200 with fine walnut media and a liquid cutting compound as polishing liquid (called T-cut in the UK). Works a treat, but takes a few hours.
Hi Joe. I was helping a friend rebuild his old knee mill and he used Evaporust overnight on cast iron. I think cast iron is high in carbon content. What a mess it made of the castings. It appeared to be pitted where they previously didn’t! I’m a big fan of your channel, thank you so much for putting in the time and effort. Cheers from Vancouver BC.
Great idea for stress free chuck removal ! I had some scrap 2 x4's in the garage, 30 minutes later, I have a cradle for my chuck ! Thank You !
Thanks Joe,
When you have your chuck chocked on the “sled” use a small ratchet strap across the top to secure it to the sled, makes them easier to store on the shelf without rolling around.
Cheers
It's a funny coincidence you post this, we just got rid of and old lathe we had for a long time at my work, it was a Chinese reproduction and we replaced it with a beautifully refurbed Hardinge, the guy who refurbs these machines has been doing this for quite some time and does incredible work, anyway the lathe looks like it's brand spanking new, the first thing I did was to make one of these because I would not be able to live with myself if I dropped it on these beautiful brand new looking ways! Happy Easter!
Thanks for sharing. I knew evaporust doesn’t play well with chrome plating, I didn’t know about high carbon steels.
Had the same issue with some of my 5C collets in evaporust. About 30 mins would clean them nicely but longer started to blue them.
The other thing to be careful of is to fully submerge the part with Evaporust, otherwise it will etch a line in the steel at the tide mark between the liquid and air.
I have wanted to make a cradle for my chucks and don’t have a way to make the curve. It never occurred to me to make a simple one out of a few pieces of 2 x 4 or 6. Thanks for that handy tip.
Thanks, Joe!
God bless you, and happy Easter! Jesus lives!
Been using evapo rust for years!! Thanks for the tip. It's hard now to trust it. As it has never failed me before but I believe you Joe.
Love the cleaning joke. I don't get paid to clean as I get paid commission in my line of work. So I don't clean. I do my work and get out as soon as it can.
Struggled putting my ten inch chuck on this morning. Not as young as I used to be. LOL Definitely going to make a saddle out of 2 x 6 when it needs to come off. this will be a little wider and more stable. Thanks Joe, simple and super useful!!
If you can lean , you can clean. Good statement. I can't tell you how many guys I have heard say , "they don't don't pay me to clean." Bullshit. It's part of your job! I often pop over to a shop that I used to work. I visit and hang out. I'll ask if the Bridgeport or lathe is available for a little project now and again. After getting permission I go out and find a machine in an absolute state of disgust. SO the process begins. I clean the machine. After all they are gracious enough to let me use it. Do my project CLEAN the machine after use and I'm on my way. Leaving the machine and area cleaner then I found it. The work ethic of clean as you go is gone , not taught , not adhered to whatsoever. Pretty disappointing really. Now in my own little work shop , I have the grunt do the clean up. That's the same guy thinking up the project , machining the project , etc. In other words it's me! Shops dirty? Nobody but myself to blame. Neat and tidy make for easier , more organized execution of the process necessary to make your stuff. Easier to find your tools if they are where they are supposed to be. Thanks for the PSA on EvapoRust and AnchorLube.
When someone says that my reply is I can pay you janitor wages for a bit while you clean if that will help. That usually gets the point across.
I was brought up with a clean and tidy attitude too BUT when you have so much pressure from a greedy boss to produce more product, cleaning goes out of the window to some degree.
It's not always the employee's fault here, some bosses won't meet you halfway.
@@steveclark.. Then I'd suggest you find another boss. That is NOT someone you want to work for long term. Not appreciating an employees work standards for cleanliness and organization are as you say greedy. Not a good place to work. I never came across a boss that didn't appreciate the shop being clean and organized. I knew they were out there just never worked in one, and you shouldn't either.
I had a professor complain about the exact same thing with Evapo-rust, and I was always concerned that Anchorlube would rust stuff being that is is water based. So, good video.
I have used evaporust and noticed the coloring, but I never gave it a second thought. Mostly because I was trying to restore a rusty item and not a polished surface. I will watch out for this in the future though.
Yep, chelation affects higher carbon steels and blackens the surface. Happened to me and Evaporust's UK concession gave me the same 'advice'.
I just finish up de-rusting 2 vintage Craftsman 20" x 27" cast iron table saw tops with Evapo-Rust.
I'm pleased to see how well they came out, all rust was gone with no pitting after soaking for
2 days. Being cast iron they have a grey appearance but if I wanted to "get nuts" I could lap
them shinny.
Thanks Joe there is not time enough for us all to learn from experience so these tips are gratefully received
This is the first negative experience I've heard from someone about evaporust. I'm sorry that happened, Joe. Huge bummer.
Sorry to hear about the collets big Joe. I had a bunch of very old small 3AT and 3C collets that were severly rusted. I put them in my Harbor Frieght vibratory shaker using thier PLASTIC media. They came out very clean [inside&out] almost shiney...very little pitting and tarnish on them. I don't like cleaning anything with chemicals.
What a great approach to handling a chuck. No damage to the machine, and all fingers intact. Thank you!
If I may add, distilled white vinegar is a handy home solution for very light FeO2 oxidation. Put it in a sonic and it will be 10 x faster.
Great tips, as always here. Thanks JP !
Hey Joe! I don’t know if you remember me but a couple of years ago, at the Bar Z summer bash, I was hanging out with you while you were running the mill/maze competition. You were giving me advice about tooling and feeds/speeds for my small lathe. Thanks again, I’d love to come work for you.
Anyways, we were talking to that guy who apparently started anchorlube and he mentioned the cast iron staining was probably because they use citric acid as an additive.
Also, I’ve experienced the same thing with evaporust and reserve it for unfinished parts and tools like you said. I’ve also noticed it’s effectiveness relies heavily on how pure the solution is,
how oil-free your parts are, and if the container you’re using is sealed. It also seems to leave a green, hazy oxidation layer on parts with high chromium/nickel content.
Ive heard heating the solution also affects how well it works but haven’t really tested that.
It is always a pleasure to see your shop-assist jigs, aids and gadgets. Truly a thinking man.
Wow thanks for the tip on evaporust I have noticed on some other things I soaked that they turned black now I know about the high carbon I will now know what to expect and will not soak my ER collets at all. The Anchorlube yep have had that problem on my drill press but was able to get most of it off with Schoch bright but it is great stuff thanks for the tips.
Note: I don't think Joe mentioned Evaporust! His warning refers to a CRC product.
Oops! I see others do say Evaporust gives the same problem 😞
Thanks Joe you have some great ideas.
Thanks for the heads up and the chuck tips
I learned that saying back in my McDonalds working days. “Got time to lean, got time to clean.” Make the most of your available time is how I use that advice today. Your tips and tricks videos are great. I am learning a lot from These style videos. Thank you for putting g this content out. Stay well.
I had a 1” bar of 12L14 that had gone rusty. Evapo Rust turned it a dark greyish colour overnight. Luckily it was just a stock piece for projects.
So it is not just a problem with high carbon steel.
Thanks for the tips ! I had the same problem with evapo rust but thought it was because it was old , now I know . Always look forward to your videos .
We've been using a cheap ultrasonic cleaner in our shop, to clean collets. Works pretty good.
What kind of abrasive would you use for that?
@@texasman1836 No abrasive. It's just water, and whatever solution the cleaner requires. It just cleans the parts ultrasonically. The cleaners themselves can be purchased for cheap...harbor freight...that kind of thing.
Hi Joe, always a joy visiting your shop.
Having the same lathe, in metric, as you do..
I wanted to tidy up the 30 something big collets from 3/16 - 2inches..
So I soaked them in evapo, like yourself, with the same ‘tanning’ result.
EXCEPT. Where any part was above the fluid level.
I now have a few with weird waterlines of a darker tint which are Very resistant to disappearing!
In fact I gave up trying.
So, like the few tea stains on my otherwise perfect mill table, I’ll just have to put up with the evidence of learning something new.
Great info Joe. I have used Anchor lube for years, great for SST
Happy easter Mr Pie
Great shop tips Joe...Thanks!
Very good info,Joe.Thank you.
Great tips! Thanks Joe!
First! You are awesome! I learn so much from watching your videos. Thank you Joe.
Thanks, Joe. More like this please.
Wow! That's too bad about the collets! I've never used evaporust so this is really a point to remember. I use the 2x4 method for my chucks. I also keep them on a roll around using the 2x4 cradles to store them on. I also use anchor lube. Great info Joe! Thanks for your time and sharing! 👍😎✌️
Great advise and psa's. Thanks Joe.
Great tips Joe. Anchorlube is a water based product it states on the bottle that it can be thinned with water also. Thanks for the video.
Good tips, Joe - thanks
Happy Easter Joe! Great video as always!
Thanks Pat. Same to you.
Hell yeah 🤙 thanks for the update Joe
Thanks Joe, I knew I was keeping all those little 2x4 offcuts for a reason. Now I know why. Greetings from Australia.
Getting ready to clean all my collets, thanks for the info 👍👍
I have run into a similar problem using chlorinated cutting lubricants. They do great for those really high pressure cutting ops, but everything must be cleaned and lubed immediately after or the rust monster will get you.
They can also cause microfractures; this led to an aircraft crash when a propellor blade that had been cleaned with a chlorinated compound catastrophically failed in flight. There’s a UA-cam video on the NTSB investigation into the crash. Do a search for “Mayday: Air Disaster” (YT channel), and go from there. I don’t remember which episode it was.
As always great advice
Thanks Joe!
I had this happen to end mills and drill bits.....
explains what was up....again, thanks Joe, PB
anxiously waiting for the advanced innovative april fool's prank , last years' was memorable !!!!!
I hope you enjoy the effort made this year. :)
Awesome chuck tips! Why didn’t I think of that???
thanks for the tip I used evaporust before but on automotive things no idea it would do this to high carbon steel. I was about to do a batch of rusty drills and reamers. I will use caution now although I would rather have them discolored than rusted
Thanks for the shop tips. I really like AnchorLube for tapping.Especially stainless steel but,you are right about the staining. I have never used Evaporust. I think I will stay away from it. I buy WD-40 by the gallon. I use it to spray down exposed metal surfaces of my machines at the end of the day and,wipe down any tooling.
The reason the Anchor Lube leaves black spots is because it is water based. I’ve had it stain taps as well as machines. Being water based it does not wash off very well with oil based solvents so tooling like taps and dies, bright finished drills, and etc. need to be washed with soap and water, or at least plain water, dried, and given a shot of WD-40 if you care about them. Vises and machine ways can be wiped free of it…….but don’t miss any of it! It does a very good job of removing heat from such cutting tools however. Many times the tool feels like it is cooler than room temperature immediately after use, but I haven’t shot them with a handheld temperature sensor, so it may be. just a feeling on my part.
Hi Joe, love the "handlebar" idea. Although my chuck is only a 5", it's still awkward to grasp, especially if it has a little oil on it. Been using a similar cradle for some time, but this makes things so much safer/easier. And thanks for the warnings.
It give a good grip. I like it too.
Picked up the same issue with C5 collets
My exact methods 2 of 3... Guacamole as we call it Anchorlube is the go-to for tapping and reaming stainless (mostly 17-4 Ph pre heat treated in our shop). I use a 1" X 18" aluminum stock for handlebars on the 10" 3-jaw and a 14" 4-jaw. A wood saddle is mandatory for sure.
Never used evapo-rust before but, prolly would have done the same thing... Thanks for the heads up! I likes my shiney collets. Luv Ur channel Joe!
thank you Joe Pie, always appreciate your knowledge....Paul in Florida
Thanks for the tips.😊
Thanks for the advice, it's always good to know...
good video Mr Joe Pie
Thanks for sharing 👍 Another saying that I always used, " Cleaning is a form of maintenence."
Thanks as always!
good tips
Always great tips. Thanks.
You bet!
The Sydney lathe I run has a built-in "crane" for removing/installing and also storing the chuck. 99.9% of the time the 4 jaw is in. But when it does have to come out, the built in crane makes it quite painless.
👍 great tips as always. Thanks
(@8:26) Or draw an arrow on the top pointing away from the chuck, and the words, “THIS SIDE FRONT” 😀 BTW: I like your idea of a wooden “saddle” for the chuck. Now you just need a wooden horse. 😂 Happy Easter, Joe!
Anchorlube is a soap and soaps are mildly caustic/corrosive. I have a small sample bottle but rarely use it and prefer oil based fluids.
I have some vintage Morse Taper drills that have a swiss cheese look to their shanks after a trip through evaporust. They work fine but have a rough almost sand paper feel with craters everywhere.
I made some 3d printed ones a few months back on my channel that are very similar. Lots of measuring to find the centerline to ways, etc., but rinse-repeat in CAD for all the different chuck sizes once you have the dimensions.
ua-cam.com/video/WUvg5a8PVEk/v-deo.html
Interesting about the evaporust on high carbon steel. I have evaporust. However, I almost always use citric acid instead, as is much cheaper. With high carbon steel in citric acid, it doesn't come out as shiny as it went in, but I've never seen it discolour like that. It comes out covered in black mess, but it's not attached to the steel. It just washes off with soapy water and a brush, immediately before drying with an old towel and going in front of a fan heater.
Nice to see you use a cheater bar sometimes on a T wrench like me. Thanks for the video and Happy Easier !
Thanks Joe.
I'm using WD-40 "Rust Remover Soak", I'll have to see if it blackens my steels.
I remember telling you about Anchor-Lube when you were talking about it awhile back.
UPDATE: I had some black spots on my hardened lathe bed, they come off with Scotch Brite pads, I use the maroon ones.
The trouble with Anchor Lube is that it dries out and clogs the bottle nozzle hole. I had to make a plug to prevent that. I still use it when I'm welding after machining because there are no oils but I use Cool Tool II for most of my machining, no stains, I can see my work better and it works well.
Joe, thanks for all your great content. What is the white ring around the spindle of the lathe???
Wonderful tips! :)
Great video as always, but I gotta speak to the EvapoRust thingy.
I actually have a bit of a background in chemistry and a more than average interest in metallurgy, and I use EvapoRust all the time. It's important to realize that just because a chemical is considered "non-toxic" or "safe", that doesn't mean that it's not a fairly powerful chemical - just look at what water does to steel... :)
That being said, you said yourself that the instructions on the bottle say that for light rust, to only use it for about 30 minutes, and you went 13 hours. Since you had some light surface rust, it would have been better to just take heed of the instructions and just 'wet' the affected areas and let them sit for a few minutes and then clean them off to see how well it worked. Rinse and repeat until you get what you want.
When dealing with chemicals (as well as most other things), it's not always a good idea to think that "...if a little bit is good, a lot is better".
It also said that up to 24 hours……vague on a powerful chemical?
Tap magic for aluminum will also leave spots on your lathe . Ask my Monarch how i know . Im gonna have to see if little Joe says Unloosen lol
I have noticed that with evaporust but did not realize it was due to carbon content. Good to know.
I was working for a large engeneering company many moons ago, when during a lunch break the forklift driver decided to do a "foreign order" in the lathe. He put an eyebolt in the chucklift point and hooked up the hoist. At some point the lathe motor started, fortunately in low gear. You guessed it, the whole headstock end of the lathe lifted untii the chain snapped big time. Fortunately no one was hurt but the boss was not happy. 🐯
I've had the Evapo-Rust turning items blue when it's old and darker (or black) in colour. I've not really had it happen when its new fresh stuff. Depending on the amount, it can be scrubbed off with a green kitchen scourer and washing up liquid.
I sure like Anchor Lube for taping. Better than different Moly/grease products I used to use. Glad I clean it up, got lucky....
I use it, but clean it up immediately.
cool stuff
I've seen this happen on some materials with Evaporust. But most of the time, it doesn't happen. Still worth it for heavy rusted pieces.
I certainly would be disappointed if I were to drop a chuck on the ways. You never know when a chemical is going to surprise you. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
That’s my next woodworking project decided. 😊
Thanks for the warning about the Evaporust...! I too use Anchorlube.... And LIKE, using the product. I have not made a effort, other than a blast of air, to remove it from really small taps and dies after use.... Is there a possibility of corrosion on these tools? Thanks for the tips!! Happy Easter!!
Yes it will rust taps I’ve left it on one before learned my lesson just clean it off after use
Great product for tapping top class
Anchorlube, like Loctite...a little expensive but well worth it. A small container like you have there can last a year. Best lube for drilling stainless, costs less than the drill you otherwise break or burn up..
The trouble with Anchor Lube is that it dries out and clogs the bottle nozzle hole. I had to make a plug to prevent that. I still use it when I'm welding after machining because there are no oils but I use Cool Tool II for most of my machining, no stains, I can see my work better and it works well.
If you leave something say a wrench in it over the weekend, you will find not only is it blackened, it is grossly pitted as well.
Great stuff. Outside from looks were the collets affected physically to where you are now afraid to use them??
Not at all. Just disappointed at the color.
Certified Shop Gems™️
i stopped using anchorlube, for that reason. anchorlube is soap/water-based, and it is unclear if it has any rust-inhibitor. manual says was off with warm water, and the last thing i want on my tooling or machine is water.
I went back to traditional coolant for 95% of my work, and I do like the wax (grease?) based tapping paste from Little Machine Shop. simply blow it off the tooling with compressed air, and all is good.
Sulfer in it, I like tap magic
Another method of rust removal is food grade acetic acid. Produces the same black reaction process however.
Also known as citric. Tomato juice is high with this
@@Flatlapper Acetic acid is the acid in vinegar, citric acid is in lemons and similar (citrus) fruit.
So, if you don't have a 2 x 4, then use your good hand to wrap a shop towel around your stump and be sure to wipe the blood off your ways if they are hardened otherwise you will need to use a brief application of Evapo-Rust to remove the rust caused by your careless bleeding habit.
Bingo.