@@papercartridges6705 You already do if you load 308 with smokeless. Guncotton is nitrocelluose. So is single base smokeless, and a significant proportion of any double base. Rough guncotton would just be like a single-base smokeless made with (far) less QC.
Watched a video of someone loading a 9mm with gun cotton...it fired but didn't rerack it to load the next round (probably worded that wrong) He fired it with semiautomatic pistol
SO? you need to load a perfect mass or weight of Nito Cellulose AND the thread size, AND thread diameter, while installing all the same each time? WOW! My HAT if OFF! to You! this is a big Project! and you have it Working! IN a Historic Piece! Thanks for Living History!
And this, once again, shows that the Austrians were not really the "sticks in the mud" people have portrayed them as being. Well done, and this make me want to trry this for myself.
Really loving all the videos on the gun cotton! Be interesting to see if any examples still exist when I visit Vienna soon. Pretty sure there is a large military museum there.
This is great. I've made gun cotton before and always thought it was just to dangerous to use in anything firearm related. So I just use it to make nitrocellulose lacquer to bind my pyrotechnic formulas in fireworks.
Neat Austrian older military cap, the German M 43 is very similar, and the cap style is still in use today. The German military at one time only mountain corps units used that style. Nice videos
This stuff is really interesting I would love to see what this stuff can really do, wonder if it can be shot from a modern muzzleloader i think that would a cool test to see how close the Austrians were to changing firearms history
There is a magic flash paper that is perfect for this. You can easily roll it on a wooden stick. And magic flash paper is easier to come by. Be aware, however, that such rolled grains may have an explosive burning effect.
Another nicly presented video in the category experimental archaeology. I´m curious about the velocity compared with a black powder muzzle loader of that era. Any chance it can be mesured?
Given the 'windage' present that allows the cartridge to drop down the barrel unrammed, does the bullet reliably obturate to engage the rifling? I'm assuming that the bullet is made from pure lead. Secondly, the illustrations show the guncotton woven, as you also mentioned. Is there any source of circularly woven cotten that you can nitrate and then attach to the stick/standoff?
Possibly take a piece of cotton cloth, possibly a medical dressing, that is already woven to the required tightness and turn that into guncotton, and use that for the propellant? That might work, and, if one knows how (or has at their disposal the "Treatise on Ammunition 1886", which details _exactly_ how to make guncotton) that could be made to happen!
Here are the self-priming muskets that I'm aware of. Hopefully, you can get one of the muskets with Prussian self-priming system to try it out so that we can prove the rumour of Prussian veterans can fire 5 to 6 shoots a minute😊--- Prussian: „Altpreußische Muskete“ / Modell 1780/87, Preußisches Schützengewehr 1787, Nothardt Gewehr / M 1801, „Neupreußische Muskete“ / M 1809 Austrian: Infanteriegewehr M1784 Musket, which use an entirely different breech plug and touch hole design from the Prussian one. Denmark-Norway: M1794 & 1808 Infantry musket, inspired by the Prussian self-priming system. Swedish: 1815/38 musket, which use the same half-round groove breech plug and conical touch hole as the Prussian muskets. British: Matthey's experimental Brown Bess in action at the Battle of Plattsburgh, 1814. The free version of his book online is missing most of the figures about the experimental musket. (Capt Matthey, Material Improvements on Fire Arms, Particularly the Common Musket. (Lymington, 1812).) Mantons self-priming folwers/musket/pistol (especially the ones with V-Pan Patent lock.)
Incredible stuff ,as always.but I think I will stay with b.p….but I do wonder if my original whitworth would like a taste of this flavour…best regards from New Zealand.
That was fun, I was going to ask about a "tap load" on your guncotton rounds, have you tried it? I know it's verboten in the challenge, but in the real world would it have any effect on the efficacy of the round? The "waa-waa" rounds made me laugh.
@@miraxus6264 That would work for starters, but cotton window sash cord approximates the weaving on the material used. If you do try this, please let us know how things go.
I’m working on two Dreyse videos now in fact! Still trying to get the sabot system perfected so it shoots more accurately. But there will be Dreyse videos coming soon.
Curious what the error bars on the charge weight are. x grains repeats your results and y grains is what they used historically and z grains makes hand grenades?
All of my propellant weights are exactly the same, either 11.5 or 13.0 grains, depending on the batch. But if you twist the strands tightly on one 13.0 grain cartridge, and leave the strands loose on another 13.0 grain cartridge, you will get two vastly different velocities, and noticeably different recoils. Historically the Austrians twisted their guncotton extremely tight into a woven thread covered with a woven guncotton fabric tube, and they used about 20 grains. This gave them about 1480 feet per second velocity, which is remarkable in 1862, when the U.S. rifle with .58 Minie ball was doing 960. But if I made up a 20 grain guncotton cartridge without tightly weaving the threads, it will absolutely blow up my barrel. I don't have a way to take the raw cotton and have it spun and woven into tight threads, the Austrians did this on machinery (and went 12 years without a single accident, in fact!).
I need vidya game replay of Battle of Königgratz 1866 (of Chlum, of Sadowa) 2.0: von Lenk Guncotton Boogaloo! +CHRISTUS+VINCIT+ +CHRISTUS+REGNAT+ +CHRISTUS+IMPERAT+ +][+
I almost sprayed coffee over the keyboard when the flaming ball of Hapsburg death came out of the muzzle and arced to the ground. Thanks.
Now i just need a video game representing this
Holdfast: Nations at War
@@stevenpolkinghorn4747wanted more of a Victorian total war game
Good lord! At this rate in a few months he might even have something....... self loading for God's sake!
The thought of stuffing some guncotton into a some .308 cases and running them through my M1A has definitely crossed my mind…
🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐@@papercartridges6705
@@papercartridges6705 You already do if you load 308 with smokeless. Guncotton is nitrocelluose. So is single base smokeless, and a significant proportion of any double base. Rough guncotton would just be like a single-base smokeless made with (far) less QC.
Watched a video of someone loading a 9mm with gun cotton...it fired but didn't rerack it to load the next round (probably worded that wrong)
He fired it with semiautomatic pistol
SO? you need to load a perfect mass or weight of Nito Cellulose AND the thread size, AND thread diameter, while installing all the same each time?
WOW! My HAT if OFF! to You! this is a big Project! and you have it Working! IN a Historic Piece!
Thanks for Living History!
And this, once again, shows that the Austrians were not really the "sticks in the mud" people have portrayed them as being. Well done, and this make me want to trry this for myself.
Really loving all the videos on the gun cotton! Be interesting to see if any examples still exist when I visit Vienna soon. Pretty sure there is a large military museum there.
Maybe you could get a modern repro rifle, something with better metallurgy, a bit stronger, and less historic value to test this stuff with less worry
This is great. I've made gun cotton before and always thought it was just to dangerous to use in anything firearm related. So I just use it to make nitrocellulose lacquer to bind my pyrotechnic formulas in fireworks.
Neat Austrian older military cap, the German M 43 is very similar, and the cap style is still in use today.
The German military at one time only mountain corps units used that style. Nice videos
This stuff is really interesting
I would love to see what this stuff can really do, wonder if it can be shot from a modern muzzleloader i think that would a cool test to see how close the Austrians were to changing firearms history
Great stuff. Thanks pseudo expert,
There is a magic flash paper that is perfect for this. You can easily roll it on a wooden stick. And magic flash paper is easier to come by. Be aware, however, that such rolled grains may have an explosive burning effect.
Would love to watch you make these "cartridges".
Another nicly presented video in the category experimental archaeology. I´m curious about the velocity compared with a black powder muzzle loader of that era. Any chance it can be mesured?
Excellent video. Now I've got to go watch the precursor to this video on how to make gun cotton.
Ethan
Is it really good idea trying to reproduce cartridge completely, cant you dose the propellant some other way than how tightly woven the cotton is?
Given the 'windage' present that allows the cartridge to drop down the barrel unrammed, does the bullet reliably obturate to engage the rifling? I'm assuming that the bullet is made from pure lead.
Secondly, the illustrations show the guncotton woven, as you also mentioned. Is there any source of circularly woven cotten that you can nitrate and then attach to the stick/standoff?
Not at those pressures it won't.
Possibly take a piece of cotton cloth, possibly a medical dressing, that is already woven to the required tightness and turn that into guncotton, and use that for the propellant? That might work, and, if one knows how (or has at their disposal the "Treatise on Ammunition 1886", which details _exactly_ how to make guncotton) that could be made to happen!
My question is...would they have woven the gun cotton? Or would they have just nitrated a cotton that was already woven?
He's gone over the exact processes in videos.
Here are the self-priming muskets that I'm aware of. Hopefully, you can get one of the muskets with Prussian self-priming system to try it out so that we can prove the rumour of Prussian veterans can fire 5 to 6 shoots a minute😊---
Prussian: „Altpreußische Muskete“ / Modell 1780/87, Preußisches Schützengewehr 1787, Nothardt Gewehr / M 1801, „Neupreußische Muskete“ / M 1809
Austrian: Infanteriegewehr M1784 Musket, which use an entirely different breech plug and touch hole design from the Prussian one.
Denmark-Norway: M1794 & 1808 Infantry musket, inspired by the Prussian self-priming system.
Swedish: 1815/38 musket, which use the same half-round groove breech plug and conical touch hole as the Prussian muskets.
British: Matthey's experimental Brown Bess in action at the Battle of Plattsburgh, 1814. The free version of his book online is missing most of the figures about the experimental musket. (Capt Matthey, Material Improvements on Fire Arms, Particularly the Common Musket. (Lymington, 1812).)
Mantons self-priming folwers/musket/pistol (especially the ones with V-Pan Patent lock.)
Incredible stuff ,as always.but I think I will stay with b.p….but I do wonder if my original whitworth would like a taste of this flavour…best regards from New Zealand.
How much difference does the bayonet make to aiming?
That was fun, I was going to ask about a "tap load" on your guncotton rounds, have you tried it? I know it's verboten in the challenge, but in the real world would it have any effect on the efficacy of the round? The "waa-waa" rounds made me laugh.
The opening theme tune sounds like the Throne Room March from the end of Star Wars!
That was great Brett 👍
Could you nitrate cotton yarn and weave it on a mandrel like climbing rope is made, that way you could control the tightness of the weave?
Could you just start with cotton cordage?
@@miraxus6264 That could work. Window sash cord comes to mind: when I was doing 17th Century reenacting that was what we used for slow match.
@russelmurphy4868 was thinking of getting some thin cordage and try this..maybe make some fast fuses
@@miraxus6264 That would work for starters, but cotton window sash cord approximates the weaving on the material used. If you do try this, please let us know how things go.
@russelmurphy4868 I work at hardware store & will look for "window sash".....
Watching a muzzle loader without a ramrod is just...weird. Interesting concept though and has some clear advantages.
I'd love to see you talk about the Prussian Dreyse.
I’m working on two Dreyse videos now in fact! Still trying to get the sabot system perfected so it shoots more accurately. But there will be Dreyse videos coming soon.
@@papercartridges6705 Awesome!
I like the range. I live in pa mind saying what sgl number it is?
This is 242 in Dillsburg.
Not to far, I like to drive around to the pa ranges for some variety. Thanks@@papercartridges6705
Curious what the error bars on the charge weight are. x grains repeats your results and y grains is what they used historically and z grains makes hand grenades?
All of my propellant weights are exactly the same, either 11.5 or 13.0 grains, depending on the batch. But if you twist the strands tightly on one 13.0 grain cartridge, and leave the strands loose on another 13.0 grain cartridge, you will get two vastly different velocities, and noticeably different recoils. Historically the Austrians twisted their guncotton extremely tight into a woven thread covered with a woven guncotton fabric tube, and they used about 20 grains. This gave them about 1480 feet per second velocity, which is remarkable in 1862, when the U.S. rifle with .58 Minie ball was doing 960. But if I made up a 20 grain guncotton cartridge without tightly weaving the threads, it will absolutely blow up my barrel. I don't have a way to take the raw cotton and have it spun and woven into tight threads, the Austrians did this on machinery (and went 12 years without a single accident, in fact!).
@@papercartridges6705 Would nitrating butcher's twine and using a rope winder not be an option?
Its pretty quick shooting
During the Civil War many Michigan units began the war with this gun.
Way to make us all take a double take, lmao. The normal Lorenz, not one using guncotton cartridges.
Gun cotton is interesting to say the least
I need vidya game replay of Battle of Königgratz 1866 (of Chlum, of Sadowa) 2.0: von Lenk Guncotton Boogaloo!
+CHRISTUS+VINCIT+
+CHRISTUS+REGNAT+
+CHRISTUS+IMPERAT+
+][+
Viribus Unitas!