I agree with parts of what you say, most people do not need the added performance of 50S, including me. However, your stand still over torque test only show motor and controller torque (very good test). It does not put a high load on the battery. Theory Power = torque * speed (or rpm for motor) Power = current * voltage In the torque test the motor speed is basically 0rpm but it needs to give a very high torque so phase current will be high but voltage low, this is managed by the controller. The voltage from the battery is fixed depending on SOC and so the current form the battery will be low. Max load on battery is achieved by high torque and high speed. Like fast riding up hill, or hard braking.
Your claim about 50S/50E batteries are incorrect. If you look at the way each cell type was tested, 50S was discharged at a constant 25A. The 50 e was constantly discharged at 4900mA. The two are not comparable because the 50E would last approximately *zero* cycles if dicharged at 25A constantly. When both were discharged at the same rate, the 50S bettery lasts consistently longer than 50E in *every single test.* And lasted for more charge cycles than 50E. See my latest video that I posted where I explain it in detail, and provide the charts and statistics. In short, 50S is superior to 50E in every single metric... except price.
@@TheHagov Time has already shown in numerous torture tests and the proof is already there. People are just running rampant with the claim that 50S cells degrade because the datasheet shows 60% at 250 charge cycles. But they fail to mention that it was tested using different currents. People may claim using anecdotal evidence that they have degraded cells, but the only way to know for sure is to test it in a lab. So in the end even if someone does claim that their 50S cells are degraded, they can't prove anything unless they lab test their cells. What we do know is that when tested using the same current levels, 50S lasts for more charge cycles with more remaining lifecycle capacity.
How many charge cycles can you get from the 50E? How much does a new 50E battery for the Veteran Lynx cost? What charge is there for disposing of a used up 50E?
Well said. And the harsh test conditions are nowhere near the real world conditions in which we use these batteries. We will get many years of great service out of these batteries before we see any measurable degradation of capacity. I work for LG and we cycle the shit out of our batteries and still warranty them for 10 years.
Nice Review, just one issue, the Samsung 50 S batteries experience the claimed 250 cycles only if you charge your euc at over 20A every time , this wouldn't be the case as Riders would only charge at 10A but not all the time.
@denis Hagov so ARE you saying that a man that is 6 feet 4 inches tall and 270lbs shouldnt get the 70lbs shock or am I mistaken ... I am waiting on my Lynx that will be at my house in 3 days and I ordered a 70lb shock... I was wondering if I shoulda went 66lb but I do some jumps and off road 75% of my riding. Like to hear your comment.
Hi, i was testing 66lbs. For a normal ride, im happy with it. I am afraid 70lbs will be much harder for casual riding. But it's better for jumping. Need to understand suspension hardness not meant to be chosen by riding style. Only by the weight of the rider. Over vices it will not work properly. But if you will still bottom it, then just you have the wrong wheel for a task's you have.
@@TheHagov The 70lb suspension is a dream ... I even had someone 110lbs less than me & it was at its softest setting so nice even for them ... I would recommend everyone over 180lbs to get 70 lbs suspension as you can adjust it & it will not bottom out with the progressive shock .. I am impressed. I am loving ther lynx now for almost 3 weeks ... Cheers
I have a Patton and agree with 2 of Denis's points - the stock pedal spikes do not grip well - especially on steep off-road trails. Also, the Patton's smaller wheel diameter is more tiring and prone to loss of control on technical off-road than a larger diameter tire. My Master is more comfortable and stable because it has a larger tire diameter. Would I trade the Patton in for the Lynx? No. But I'm sure it would handle off-road better than the smaller-diameter Patton.
Hi Arevee, how about city riding do you feel any major difference between Patton and other 20” EUCs? I’m wondering if for mainly daily city riding it’s better to spend some additional money on Lynx or go for 16” Patton which would be enough.
Nice wheel and review. Please note, that in most of the EU countries where EUC are legal the maximum speed is limited to 25km/h, so there is a very little place to run at 80-90 km/h this wheel is capable to.
@@revolutionaries007 yes and no. in France road police runs raids to check wheelers of any sort. Mostly it focused on the scooters, but EUC are also in a scope. They check all the elements - measuring the speed, checking insurance, horns etc. The fines are pretty high (above 100 euros usually). But its true that regular road policemen look at you with interest. Generally 🙂
@@France.Wheeler wow... I am hoping t his doesnt happen here in the US but with all these videos of riders esp in NYC that race on roads they will be enacting bills to do the same I fear. The more popular it gets , the likely hood of that happening here increases.... thank you for the update & also let me know how u like the 70lb when it arrives... (mine arrives thursday now) Cant wait as the first box with the seat & power pads arrives today.
I have ordered the 70lb suspension and now I think I may have made a mistake. Have you actually ridden the 70lb Lynx? How do you know it will be too hard for the average rider up to 100kg?
@@mcfly_ev if they actually tested it why not. If not and just throw numbers based on past LK wheels some people are in for disappointment when they discover the suspension on the lynx is stiffer than usual. Denis Hagov is 💯 right in this video.
@@TheHagov everyone can have their opinion but if you are going to argue against it with facts please do some fact checking first, what you are saying in your video is not professional because 250 cycle test comes from torture test where it's tested under full discharge and charge
@RonnieRides so according your opinion 50s in the wheel will not have stress? So then why you need them? If they will not work and 50e will be more then enough to perform sane. Useless dialogue. I see 0 pluses in 50s only minuses but still many going on hype. As i sayed same stories i saw wit p42 molicels. Then all say at once best best best. But in fact same performance, expensive, less range.
@@TheHagov you contradict yourself, in one second you are saying that you won't use the extra discharge that 50S provides, in the other you argue that the discharge will be so high that early degradation will happen. Less range? They are exactly the same capacity.
@RonnieRides same as you. You say will not degrade because not use such discharge but then you need them? My point discharge rate not affect degradation. Main affect of degradation are charging cycles. Only charge and discharge cycles make real effect on battery life span. Same written on tech data privded by manufacture. And manufacture dont write what this degradation valid only then batteries get some constant. And dont write on what constant the test was done.
Finally some common sense advise, from someone who has experienced a lot more wheels than most average riders. As he stated on several occasions " This is his opinion" You don't have to take it as fact, spend the extra on 50s batteries for and tell yourself that you are right and be happy! There is no need to criticize someone just because you think you know better ( in my opinion!!) Regarding the advise on whether to upgrade from the patton, again (in my opinion) good sound advice!! For me personally having no experience with either wheel and looking to upgrade from a S22 I still cant decide, I dont need the speed of the lynx but I do like the 20inch wheel of my S22 mostly footpath and light trails for me just want a waterproof and reliable fun wheel not sure about the 16inch wheel. maybe get the lynx as it weighs the same as the patton and ride slow!! (in my opinion)!!
Well done Dennis. Good explanation
I agree with parts of what you say, most people do not need the added performance of 50S, including me. However, your stand still over torque test only show motor and controller torque (very good test). It does not put a high load on the battery.
Theory
Power = torque * speed (or rpm for motor)
Power = current * voltage
In the torque test the motor speed is basically 0rpm but it needs to give a very high torque so phase current will be high but voltage low, this is managed by the controller.
The voltage from the battery is fixed depending on SOC and so the current form the battery will be low.
Max load on battery is achieved by high torque and high speed. Like fast riding up hill, or hard braking.
Thank you father
Your claim about 50S/50E batteries are incorrect. If you look at the way each cell type was tested, 50S was discharged at a constant 25A. The 50 e was constantly discharged at 4900mA. The two are not comparable because the 50E would last approximately *zero* cycles if dicharged at 25A constantly. When both were discharged at the same rate, the 50S bettery lasts consistently longer than 50E in *every single test.* And lasted for more charge cycles than 50E. See my latest video that I posted where I explain it in detail, and provide the charts and statistics. In short, 50S is superior to 50E in every single metric... except price.
Time will show only now.
@@TheHagov Time has already shown in numerous torture tests and the proof is already there. People are just running rampant with the claim that 50S cells degrade because the datasheet shows 60% at 250 charge cycles. But they fail to mention that it was tested using different currents. People may claim using anecdotal evidence that they have degraded cells, but the only way to know for sure is to test it in a lab. So in the end even if someone does claim that their 50S cells are degraded, they can't prove anything unless they lab test their cells. What we do know is that when tested using the same current levels, 50S lasts for more charge cycles with more remaining lifecycle capacity.
How many charge cycles can you get from the 50E?
How much does a new 50E battery for the Veteran Lynx cost?
What charge is there for disposing of a used up 50E?
Well said. And the harsh test conditions are nowhere near the real world conditions in which we use these batteries. We will get many years of great service out of these batteries before we see any measurable degradation of capacity. I work for LG and we cycle the shit out of our batteries and still warranty them for 10 years.
Nice Review, just one issue, the Samsung 50 S batteries experience the claimed 250 cycles only if you charge your euc at over 20A every time , this wouldn't be the case as Riders would only charge at 10A but not all the time.
Can I see on the app whether the battery is 50s or 50e?
Great info. I think I will go with 66bls spring.
Wouldn't it be better to wait for 2nd batch, at least?
@denis Hagov so ARE you saying that a man that is 6 feet 4 inches tall and 270lbs shouldnt get the 70lbs shock or am I mistaken ... I am waiting on my Lynx that will be at my house in 3 days and I ordered a 70lb shock... I was wondering if I shoulda went 66lb but I do some jumps and off road 75% of my riding. Like to hear your comment.
Hi, i was testing 66lbs. For a normal ride, im happy with it. I am afraid 70lbs will be much harder for casual riding. But it's better for jumping. Need to understand suspension hardness not meant to be chosen by riding style. Only by the weight of the rider. Over vices it will not work properly. But if you will still bottom it, then just you have the wrong wheel for a task's you have.
@@TheHagov thank you for the answer.
@@TheHagov The 70lb suspension is a dream ... I even had someone 110lbs less than me & it was at its softest setting so nice even for them ... I would recommend everyone over 180lbs to get 70 lbs suspension as you can adjust it & it will not bottom out with the progressive shock .. I am impressed. I am loving ther lynx now for almost 3 weeks ... Cheers
I have a Patton and agree with 2 of Denis's points - the stock pedal spikes do not grip well - especially on steep off-road trails. Also, the Patton's smaller wheel diameter is more tiring and prone to loss of control on technical off-road than a larger diameter tire. My Master is more comfortable and stable because it has a larger tire diameter. Would I trade the Patton in for the Lynx? No. But I'm sure it would handle off-road better than the smaller-diameter Patton.
Hi Arevee, how about city riding do you feel any major difference between Patton and other 20” EUCs? I’m wondering if for mainly daily city riding it’s better to spend some additional money on Lynx or go for 16” Patton which would be enough.
Nice wheel and review. Please note, that in most of the EU countries where EUC are legal the maximum speed is limited to 25km/h, so there is a very little place to run at 80-90 km/h this wheel is capable to.
Sure my friend. main problem now. we get more and more restrictions over all EU
@@TheHagov True. good things are suffering the most. See the drones for ex. euc to follow 😞
well thats only if you are caught going above that speed. It is fine to go any speed you want as long as you do it wisely.
@@revolutionaries007 yes and no. in France road police runs raids to check wheelers of any sort. Mostly it focused on the scooters, but EUC are also in a scope. They check all the elements - measuring the speed, checking insurance, horns etc. The fines are pretty high (above 100 euros usually). But its true that regular road policemen look at you with interest. Generally 🙂
@@France.Wheeler wow... I am hoping t his doesnt happen here in the US but with all these videos of riders esp in NYC that race on roads they will be enacting bills to do the same I fear. The more popular it gets , the likely hood of that happening here increases.... thank you for the update & also let me know how u like the 70lb when it arrives... (mine arrives thursday now) Cant wait as the first box with the seat & power pads arrives today.
I have ordered the 70lb suspension and now I think I may have made a mistake. Have you actually ridden the 70lb Lynx? How do you know it will be too hard for the average rider up to 100kg?
I’ve been wondering the same thing, so far Electric Dreams is the only review I’ve seen that is on a 70lb wheel.
@@mcfly_ev yes. LK have yet to release any official information on which suspension suits which rider. 🤷🏻♂️
I have the 62lbs and i already find it stiffer than a 62lbs Sherman or patton... I wouldn't want to ride 70lbs for normal street riding
@@Ronin_Ryder I’ve been asking in every video, 66 or 70. The street riders say 66 and the trail riders say 70. So I guess that’s what I boils down to.
@@mcfly_ev if they actually tested it why not. If not and just throw numbers based on past LK wheels some people are in for disappointment when they discover the suspension on the lynx is stiffer than usual. Denis Hagov is 💯 right in this video.
250 cycles degradation of 50s comes from "torture test", it's not relevant for EUC, you're comparing apples and oranges.
I remember same hype with Molicels exactly same stories... result known...
@@TheHagov everyone can have their opinion but if you are going to argue against it with facts please do some fact checking first, what you are saying in your video is not professional because 250 cycle test comes from torture test where it's tested under full discharge and charge
@RonnieRides so according your opinion 50s in the wheel will not have stress? So then why you need them? If they will not work and 50e will be more then enough to perform sane. Useless dialogue. I see 0 pluses in 50s only minuses but still many going on hype. As i sayed same stories i saw wit p42 molicels. Then all say at once best best best. But in fact same performance, expensive, less range.
@@TheHagov you contradict yourself, in one second you are saying that you won't use the extra discharge that 50S provides, in the other you argue that the discharge will be so high that early degradation will happen. Less range? They are exactly the same capacity.
@RonnieRides same as you. You say will not degrade because not use such discharge but then you need them? My point discharge rate not affect degradation. Main affect of degradation are charging cycles. Only charge and discharge cycles make real effect on battery life span. Same written on tech data privded by manufacture. And manufacture dont write what this degradation valid only then batteries get some constant. And dont write on what constant the test was done.
"майнус сэвен вэвэр ин литвениа"😂
Finally some common sense advise, from someone who has experienced a lot more wheels than most average riders. As he stated on several occasions " This is his opinion" You don't have to take it as fact, spend the extra on 50s batteries for and tell yourself that you are right and be happy! There is no need to criticize someone just because you think you know better ( in my opinion!!) Regarding the advise on whether to upgrade from the patton, again (in my opinion) good sound advice!! For me personally having no experience with either wheel and looking to upgrade from a S22 I still cant decide, I dont need the speed of the lynx but I do like the 20inch wheel of my S22 mostly footpath and light trails for me just want a waterproof and reliable fun wheel not sure about the 16inch wheel. maybe get the lynx as it weighs the same as the patton and ride slow!! (in my opinion)!!
Furthermore in my opinion a review like this from someone who is promoting and selling the product, come across as a pretty honest and unbiased .