Can Judo Make Aikido Techniques Better and Vice Versa? • Ft. Chadi
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Aikido and Judo are often considered sister-arts. Yet while Judo is famous for being effective, Aikido has the opposite reputation. So how can Judo make Aikido better? Or maybe Aikido can make Judo better too?
To find out me and Chadi, fellow youtuber decided to meet and ask this question.
00:00 Can Judo Improve Aikido?
00:46 The same technique in Aikido and Judo. But what's different?
01:57 What makes the Judo variation better?
02:29 An Aikido practice that is questionable
03:18 Judo principles that are missing from Aikido
04:25 A lack of realism pointed out
05:07 Aikido Shino Nage vs Judo Reverse Seoi Nage
06:21 A lack of control in Aikido's techniques
06:45 A controversy in Judo
07:36 Why Aikido doesn't spar and how that affects a martial art
08:38 Aikido's desire to preserve techniques and its downside
09:54 How Aikido can improve Judo
11:21 Aikido's Randori principles used in Judo
11:45 Aikido's stance in Judo?
12:14 More similarities between Judo and Aikido
12:43 Aikido's sword work in Judo
13:32 Conclusion
If you want to see my Aikido vs Judo sparring with Chadi - click here: • Aikido vs Judo - Real ...
If you want to see my exploration of how wrestling could improve aikido with an MMA fighter, click here: • Aikido vs Wrestling • ...
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey UA-cam channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my UA-cam channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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► • Aikido vs MMA - REAL ...
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#aikido #judo #martialarts - Спорт
Do not overcomplicate it, my fellow Martial Art Practitioners! If it bothers you that in Aikido the opponent does not resist, practice it with a resisting opponent. Then you will learn what works and what doesn’t. It is that simple!
Nice !!
Well said, it has an ancestor art for those that interested
Aikido is a watered down Jiu-Jitsu. It's basically a dance mixed with Yoga.
@@lionsden4563 kkkkk go study
@@rafaelsantana3878,
Done Aikido years ago. That's why i know.
I'm currently practicing Judo at a traditional dojo, which teaches the complete martial art and it is really amazing. It is quite a shame that the IJF is limiting techniques so much.
It's much easier to understand judo that way, tho it have to be done with self control to not injured
That's what happens when the Olympics gets it's hands on a martial art/combat sport.
Look at what Taekwondo has become.
true we all hate ijf !
Chadi is like a serious judo historian. The guy’s UA-cam channel is phenomenal.
Brilliant. I’d love to see a blending of aikido with judo to allow it to be practiced with a resisting opponent.
Aikido practicioners were usually judo black belts...
I've been told Tomiki Aikido was the result of modifying aikido with judo elements to create a more functional version of aikido, including adding randori to the curriculum.
Trying out Tomiki Aikido is definitely on my list. Hopefully I'll put that off in a couple of months (there's no Tomiki in my country)
@@MartialArtsJourney If you want find a Tomiki school in Europe, let me know. There is a good school in Dublin that I can get you an intro to. Btw, Judo and Aikido compliment each other. Kenji Tomiki developed Tomiki Aikido to compliment Judo. The techniques and the ideas behind the training are fundamentally different.
Where can some one learn tomiki aikido I'm very interested btw I live in the us, is there any kind of aikido the includes striking, I feel like striking would help to make people off guard making the throw attempt more capable, sorry for the questions
@@elmerkoch3569 Tomiki aikido randori is against a practice knife, so in a sense, yeah.
@@elmerkoch3569 Nihon Goshin Aikido includes striking (Shotokan Karate). Not sure if this is helpful.
The problem you all have is that you're trying to use Aikido in the environment of Judo, BJJ, wrestling, MMA, etc. But Aikijujutsu (the art aikido comes from) was made for very specific occasions. If you notice, there a lot of techniques in seiza (sitting on your heels), and there are NO attacks, it's always a defense. Why? Aikijujutsu was made for combat in small rooms, in meetings, where you have your small sword by your side and you sit in seiza facing your potential opponent. The small sword detail is extremely important, because that's why there are so many defenses to wrist grips. When you're fighting someone with a weapon, the best thing you can do is grab their wrist so you can control their hand and this way defend their attacks. So stop trying to test Aikido/Aikijujutsu in what it was not designed for.
I think you’re onto something where you said many Aikido practitioners consider the aikido sparring to be dirty. Many of us get into martial arts thinking it’ll give us clean answers, and we’ll be able to control fights in our favor. And I think that’s the biggest lie in martial arts. Real fights, even in competition, are UGLY. It can be mitigated to a degree, you can win with obvious clean techniques, but the combat overall will involve chaos and dirty/ugly things happening. Even the best mixed martial artists get punched in the head repeatedly in competition.
I do Sumo, and we drill our techniques individually a lot to get it down and make sure it works, but sometimes I go to do an arm lock throw from my opponents shoulder, because he isn’t cooperating, it ends up being an arm bar force down or force out, because that’s the way the cookie crumbled. And you don’t get that insight without pressure testing.
Thank you for your wonderful videos! You are doing amazing work!
The best fighters can still make things look pretty. Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali looked like art in a boxing ring for example.
@@combatsportlover6919 both of them had ugly slugfests though
@@maxretrofitted7785fight should be ugly im trying to hurt you
I think Aikido makes a great introduction to wrestling and judo concepts - especially for the complete beginner or person who is intimidated by stand up grappling. That being said, once the "introductory" phase is complete, it's time to move on to more effective training methods. I would be interested, however, to hear your thoughts on where Aikijujutsu and Hapkido fall on the spectrum of "effective" stand up grappling methods.
Same, i started in AikiJutjitsu and serves me Well in BJJ and some MuayThai sparring
Great point with the reverse seoi nage. Unfortunatly it got banned this year.
I believe I discovered a great concept on how to actually make Aikido work, without making it just merge into Judo or wrestling. To make it a unique, efficient addition to the martial arts roaster, that everyone should cross train, but that can also work on its own in a short period of time training it.
I dont want to write paragraphs here that nobody reads in the end, so let me know if you are open minded to hear it.
I'd be glad to hear it.
I could read a whole book on that topic
I could read a half book on that topic.
I would love to hear it!
Here we go!! 😎
Historically I think the Judo/aikido correlation is the most interesting one
Wait till you see the Judo / Aikido SUMO connection. Mind will equals blown, my friend.
Most people assume “learning the basics” means learning “techniques.”
No!
“Learning the basics” means understanding simple principles of fighting, such as timing, movement, speed, balance, energy, strength, flexibility, etc.
Once the basics are learned, then techniques can be learned and used in their most meaningful way.
A carpenter must first understand what the job is before they can pick the best tools for the job.
@Martial Arts Journey
Rokas, this was excellent. Last we spoke, I had some comments about your thoughts on Judo. This video definitely shows what you are capable of as a scholar of Martial Arts.
1. I love how you dissected the differences between one technique in two martial arts. This focus on one technique allowed the viewer (and yourself) to pick up on details!
2. I love how you looked at some of the carry over in movements (Aikido's Sword Work) and how that might facilitate familiarity with movements in Judo.
3. I love how you saw that tai sabaki was a common thread between the two arts.
4. I love how you recognized the differences in gripping and control.
Your criticisms of Judo's constant rule changes is also quite fair. I liked how you said (paraphrasing) "the more limited the rules become, the more limited the martial artists become as well." I completely agree. I will take it a step further and say that at one point (when Judo had more open rules), the reason it became so popular is because fighters from dozens of wrestling traditions from around the world could compete, since it was so similar to their native style (wrestling styles like: Chidaoba, Sambo, Kuresh, Pahlawani, Ssisereum, Bokh, Shuai Jiao and Tegumi). The stricter Judo becomes, the more it risks taking away each country's unique cultural expression and contribution to Judo. I think this is a shame.
That said, even with the leg grab and reverse Seoi Nage bans (which I hate), Judo has well over 40 time tested, pressure tested throwing techniques. If I may be so bold, with your build you would be a terror to fight with Judo's Ashi Waza:
judoinfo.com/foot-techniques-ashi-waza/
All told, the only criticism I have of this video is that perhaps you are too harsh on Aikido (though I have no experience in it myself)! I do think it prepared you more than you know (you'll probably pick up on Aikido-isms in your skills for decades to come). I myself started in Karate and years later thank it for my flexibility and acrobatic ability (even as a Heavyweight in Judo/BJJ/Boxing). I do think that you should keep up the comparative nature of your videos, but don't be so hard on yourself or the Aikido you come from!
That said, feel free to critique or point out anyone making false claims in any martial art, be it Aikido, Judo or otherwise!
Though its safe to say that I think that in your work, you aren't making Aikido better - you are making yourself and the Aikido YOU USE better.
Keep up the good work!
I just realized something, if you remember the history of old school sparring in Japan sparring used to end in death or horrible injuries like old competitions. Having that in mind it kinda makes sense that no sparring or competition is included in aikido. but times have changed and we have better ways of sparring that don´t result in death and ways to pressure test. I cannot recommend enough the book the art of peace by Morihei Ueshiba himself having a bit of historical and personal context from the creator helps understand his art.
I've been practicing both for years. So glad I finally found a video explaining both of these together. Thank you.
which one do you like more?
To me combining different grappling styles together is awesome.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
First my name is also ROKAS and im from the same cityy :D
😁 Labas Rokai 👊
Awesome video. The connection between judo and aikido is an interesting one so I'm glad you're covering it! It's sad to see reverse seoi nage and other techniques banned in competitive judo but overall I think what seperates generally functional martial arts from non functional ones is how much sparring and pressure testing they go through. If you keep refining and making aikido more functional I'm sure it could be very useful in MMA and the likes. Great work!
My friend -- See this
ua-cam.com/video/-R78rBqC6K8/v-deo.html
Very recently (after you filmed this video, and possibly after you did the voiceover), the IJF (Internation Judo Federation) announced new rule changes, one of which partially brings bag leg grabs. Short version: you can now grab legs to assist in an in-progress throw/takedown (like that koshi waza in the video), but you still cannot grab the legs as the primary means of a takedown (so still no wrestling- or BJJ-style double- or single-leg takedowns, etc.).
Awesome video rokas, aye judo does have a good selection of techniques that can be applied to aikido to make it more practical
Woooo Yes it would!!!!! As a former Judoka an Bujinkan practitioner, I must say that I was able to fill so many gaps that I thought Judo have thanks to Bujinkan. Now, I know Bujinkan and Aikido are not the same, but given their similarities, I am sure that any judoka would be blown away by the possibilities that Aikido could introduce. specially for a more self-defense oriented judo.
On the other hand, I also see flaws (severe ._.') in aikido that Judo would fix. For example, executing techniques without a previous control of the adversary. That means that the technique would depend exclusively on the will of the receiver. Judo is based on the exact opposite principle, so it would fix those things immediately
great video! so sorry to hear about the hack
By far, your best video. I practice Judo but I include Aikido principles and techniques in my Judo. Aikido has several throws which improve on Judo throws by not requiring a grip and by using head control to off balance the attacker. For example, Tenchi Nage teaches a smoother safer version which requires no cloth grips compared to Osoto Gari. The entry for Shiho nage can be used to deflect grabs and strikes and flow into arm drags and judo throws. There are alot of lessons to be learned from Aikido if you study the art together with combat sports. But, it has to be understood in a realistic, practical way, not in a cooperative imitative manner. False cooperation destroys learning.
Morote tsuri komi goshi is kind of a "show your opponent they suck" throw but I love it.
UK - I don't usually comment on MA videos - but - I found this one rather interesting, I was a student of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei from 1956/7 , I was a Judoka, when KA first demonstrated Traditional Aikido, I decided to practice both MA, later, I was to study with KA just Aikido, and Kendo with Tomio Otani ( National Coach BKC) The early students of Aikido were all Judoka, we owe the early progress to British Judoka, their practice is close contact, that is how KA taught traditional aikido, ````````all ```````the early Aikido teachers were all Judoka's KA 8th dan ex al Japan 5th dan champion, Mutsuro Nakazono 6th dan Kodokan 6th dan Aikido, Tadashi Abe - Masamichi Noro - Kazuo Chiba, being judoka their traditional Aikido was ``````tight````` not floating at arms length.
I have been involved in Aikido for some 68 years ( I am now 86 ) I worked on the London night clubs, I would not have practiced the Aikido that I see on offer today, it is now the art of academics and Yoga students, - It really saddens me to see Aikido with music, or ribbons, Sorry, I need to close.
Henry Ellis Shihan - Co-author with Abdul Rashid of ` British Aikido History `. from 1957.
This is the best breakdown of the problems with Aikido you have done. Aikido should be blended with Judo and even BJJ to be practical, you have to subject yourself and your art to pressure testing and you should absolutely throw out and modify techniques for functionality.
Awesome vídeo Rokas!
Thanks!
Yes, this is the type of content I'm looking for.
Man, this should have been the solution you were looking for long ago but you can't not be younger or do any thing earlier than NOW , so it's good... Can I have a humble praise for this video ?
Chadi is such a good martial artist from the perspective of learning from all sources. I think a lot of us become too obsessed sometimes with the finding what is immediately useful and discarding what is not, when in reality what is and is not useful will depend on the martial artist’s bodytype, mentality, and objectives
thank you 🙏🏻🙇🏻♂️
Damn straight. I'm the only guy I know that teaches ninjutsu and makes people spar because of how important pressure testing is. A lot of our techniques are about joint destruction, so those are relegated to randori because of inherent risk associated with them, but they MUST be contextualized with things like boxing, muay thai and judo. Awesome work man, I'm glad you're not still living in theory land.
Yes, yes, and yes! Excellent stuff.
@Martial Arts Journey, Aikikai is not a representative of Aikido. Try research on Iwama Shin-Shin Aikido. Morihiro is given name by the founder, he is the only person who has this and also the longest direct student. Its totally different.
It is hard to find Iwama dojo. But I do heard that they do practice with limited resisting.
This is amazing!
If you have a chance, look for a sumo gym... They will have answers to questions you didnt even knew you had... Also, sumo is one of the few sports where "charging at someone" is normal, and many rikishi have aikido experience too
Very interesting content ! I used to do seoi nage a bit "aikido way" , by enrolling the arm and make the partner move in the direction you want with kind of an armlock and then going for the seoi nage
Come to think of it, aikido is like doing a kata but with a partner.
Very nice!
I think that the people at the top of Judo in the IJF are trying to make Judo TV/Olympically friendly, which the martial side is suffering at the expense of. However, with Olympic fame and TV watchablility (see BJJ for a non-tv friendly version) comes world renown exposure.
Pre-UFC when claims of martial effectiveness couldnt really be proven and spread across the world (with the help of the internet) Aikido also went worldwide, but in today's day and age more young people are being drawn to combat sports compared to Aikido.
I think Judoka don't need Aikido to learn good posture, and in Judo we do throwing drills where one person is in the middle and run to each side of the mat to throw a complaint partner. This is similar to aikido's randori, and I think Aikido's randori could easily be modified to be used in a Judo context with Judo techniques against multiple attackers.
Where I am learning aikido (tomiki) to improve myself as a judoka and martial artist, I am focusing on the tomiki shomen ate, gendan ate, hikitaoshi. I have seen these techniques work in pressure tested sumo wrestling, and the gendan-ate work in lyoto machida's version in karate and mma.
Seeing Rokas use kote gaeshi in sparring now puts that on the list!
cool vid. I think the other point about no pressure testing in Aikido is the loss of effectiveness of the techniques in schools. Each successive generation is at risk of getting slightly worse than the previous as they create their own mistakes and pass them on, since theres no pressure testing to force you to get it right.
Theres some vids on Kazuo Chiba, you might like his style, he seems to focus on keeping his uke close, under control and extremely uncomfortable.
Hello Rokas!
I practice karate but my instructor also does aikido so he had us try some technuiques. When i did kotegaeshi, when my opponent got to the ground he somehow kept doing like a backward roll and got out of my grip? Since you are an aikido expert, i would like some advice as to how i can keep him on the ground and controll him.
Thanks in advance :)
I'm a current student of Judo, a derivative of Yoshinkan Aikido, and HEMA (in and out of armor). I find interesting cross parallels between the approaches of each art and why some things don't work at speed. Watching more advanced Aikido students sparring, I see more the Muy Thai influences they also train. I don't see much Aikido coming out. However, in my HEMA practice, I'm seeing places where my Aikido is applicable once my opponent is within grappling range. Mostly places where Ikkijo/ikkyo are useful. Lots of areas for Judo throws, though medieval European armor prevents many of these, as well as garments being tailored much tighter that a dogi. Also, many Aikido techniques like Shiho Nage (as in the video) have direct equivalents in medieval European dagger fighting.
Overall, I'm using Aikido for fitness and practicing agility and body movements. I also used it to practice falling before starting Judo.
Some say that aikido techniques have the uke stay in unnatural positions like overcomitment to your arm because they are meant to be holding onto your weapon.
Do you think that's true?
@@cahallo5964 I'm no expert (1 year of Aikido, 6 of HEMA), but yes. The only reason anyone would hold a death grip on your wrist is because they're trying to restrain a weapon. Lots of the techniques are for someone with a weapon attempting to retain it. I see lots of parallels in medieval dagger fighting and some with swords. I'm still experimenting with incorporating Aikido into my HEMA work; slow going, but I see potential. I wouldn't pretend these are great techniques with the knives and guns one is most likely to encounter in modern situations (avoiding violence and running away are more reliable techniques, by far).
Also, many positions were for teaching or training deeper mechanics. The seated techniques are to build mechanics with core muscles. Everything in Yoshinkan Aikido (as I understand it) is getting the core involved. Translating to standing footwork was delayed to help reinforce these mechanics. Advanced students of Shioda learned how to gain leverage through subtle shifts in posture and use of soft tissue (muscle fascia) to shift power through the body. That's not something I'm capable of describing in detail, other than to point to a few videos that almost explain it
@@cahallo5964 Also, try holding a stick in your hand while doing Judo throws. If it was a knife, you'd cut yourself a lot. So a lot of the Aikido curriculum focuses on keeping your own knife away from you body while throwing or manipulating your opponent.
@@Tanstaaflitis Thank you for your insight!, regarding your second comment, I hit myself with my own bo a few times trying to grapple with it so I understand what you are pointing out.
I love these vids.. but honestly, an explanation can be found for the purpose and or effectiveness of a certain martial art under different Situations. The difference between Jutsu and do offers a fairly good insight into the purposes of different martial arts.. and looking into the history of the arts is good as well, both the founder of aikido and judo wanted a less harmful method of combat and both technically eventually became more sport like aikido took it a step further and seems to have become a dance with some traces of legitimate techniques woven within the expression of the movements. Similarly to how tai chi has traces of legit combat techniques, I think aikido is an amazing way to warm up and such it’s essentially become tai chi.
overall nice video. what you said about more limited judo ruleset makes more limited players- certainly less versatile but then more specialised with all the techniques that they are left with. pros and cons of everything. just like for example training just boxing or just bij/ grappling as opposed to training MMA- clearly MMA is more versatile, yes by training just bij or just boxing we would become very efficient at particular art. like Ben askren who was able to adapt his wrestling to all variety of attacks and styles. i would love leg grabs to make their way back to judo but at same time I like the fact that due to banning those everyone is forced to try more high amplitude throws and specialize at those
Once again: Judo it's Randori. BJJ rolling. 'Sparring' is for striking.
I NEVE GIVE UP!
O Sensi liked to train people from other martial arts it could even be argued that aikikai aikido was like a Japanese version of Hema for people who wanted to live a samurai lifestyle, I've said before that Aikido is a philosophy and a conflict management system more than it is a martial art, that isn't my line its actually from a Aikido/judo black belt and BJJ brown belt who trains all three at the Budokwai in London, like he said two are functional one is spiritual. Also in Japan a lot of practitioners train both.
Rokas Sensei, what do you think about Kendo study to augment Aikido understanding? I mean, in terms of the dirty Aikido?
It's difficult to say since I had very little practice of Kendo. Kendo though doesn't seem like a very practical martial art since it relies on swords which we don't carry :) It was also sportified from what I gather, making it even more specifically useful mainly for the sport element itself
@@MartialArtsJourney thank you for the reply, sir. Love your content.
Do you feel post world war two rules against anything combat related in Japan influenced aikido in being more tradition/culture/art related? I have heard that also played a big role in Iaido and other martial arts in Japan being less focused on actual combat efficacy. At least from post WW2 on when the US didn't allow them to train for combat.
6:25 Generally you can say the tighter you can throw, twist or turn the more control you got and that is what i learned from a Judo national team member of germany and in my experience of over 20 years in different martial arts. From a Tai Chi Master Manfred Steiner i learned small circle throws and locks and it is the same the tighter the circle the more it works because of control. There is still more to it though because can do a small circle without trying to throw the person over your body and with whole body engagement and fail.
one method taught by my sensei was to pick a technique that you'd "mastered" in compliant training, then try to apply it in sparring over several sessions (we sparred at least weekly, so he'd say to try for a month of sessions). If you can't spot an opening, nor force an opportunity to apply it, then that would be a mark against it. If, given consultation and meditations on the technique during and between at least 3 such cycles, then you can say definitively that this technique is not going to work for you. Note that this doesn't necessarily mean it won't work for ANYONE, as there are many variables between users; both physical and mental.
There a lot of things both martial arts can learn from each other by taking some elements and the other's perspective to the approach of training and execution of the techniques.
By the way, if you ever come to Greece, we would love to see you in person in a meeting.
I can show you three root sword forms that all Gong Fu styles come from. To get the full detail you have to go more in depth and it gets really complex. I have been practicing Silat and Escrima since 1993. In 2008 I began training Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi. Currently, I am researching where the best place is to go to learn Traditional Chinese Medicine.
The IJF in Judo tends to ban techniques with a higher probability of severe injury.
That's why scissor takedowns were banned originally, way before the whole revamping of competition Judo in which they prohibited all direct leg grabs.
Scissor takedowns in something like BJJ are soft comedy and can be preserved because it's so slow motion and low-key. But in Judo, scissors easily break or at least injure the knees and/or the ankles.
The reverse seio nage is proper jujutsu (as in Japanese jujutsu), but any sensible practitioner can see how it is a more injury-prone technique.
Any judicious Judoka can tell the difference between safer and riskier techniques in terms of possible damage, it's just that nu-martial arts culture has so many amoral players who just don't care (there's a famous American competitor with black belts in BJJ and Judo who brags about not caring if he breaks arms, for instance). A toxic culture in which rules have to be enforced because there is no honor.
Aikido was the culmination of O Sensei's martial arts journey.
Just like a house, you ought to build the foundation long before starting on the finishing touches.
Was looking for this video thinking it was released months ago,only at the end i saw it was from the less than 2 hours. Nice to see Chadi here,he talks a lot about how Judo can be crossed or combined with other martial art,like the japanese army self defence program and so on. Since you covered Judo,how about looking at Sumo,maybe contacting Amita Sumo?
Aikido was designed by and for people who already had jiujutsu experience, so it makes sense why beginners don't get it. They can't even throw a person who isn't resisting or control their own strength. Of course they can't throw an attacking person with the uke's strength.As a black belt judoka and coach, I see Aikido aligns a lot with the more advanced skills we judokas acquire only after about a decade of experience.
Great 😎
I wonder if you guys have read Ellis Amdur 's related article about the life of O' Sensei.
When aikido and judo are used in the same sentence I can’t help but think of Gene Labell choking out Steven Seagal
It's interesting to me that a lot of the Judoka's bring overs from aikido are what I've been taught in a more traditional, complete dojo, like keeping the back straight, constant movement or the stance of the feet.
Daitō-ryū; Daitō-ryū Jujutsu is the ancestor art of Aikido, Judo is primarily a descendent of Tenjin Shinyo-ryu jujutsu and Kitō-ryū jujutsu, however, it distinguishes itself from them due to an emphasis on "randori" instead of Kata as well as its removal of striking and weapon training elements in many programs. Start there!
How can Judo make Aikido better? 1) A lot of Judo throws would be classified as Koshi-nage in Aikido - if you have Judo experience, you basically know how to pull off Aikido's Koshi-nage against a resisting opponent, so you'd be way ahead of the curve right there. 2) Judo players tend to be pretty strong (it just develops over time from doing Uchi-komes, etc.) and have pretty good grip strength - this would probably go a long way to making techniques like Sankyo, Kote-gaeshi, or Nikkyo work in a real situation.
i hope some day in the future you will take everything you are learning on your martial arts journey and develop a style of Aikido that can be useful in a real work situation or in a MMA fight.
Chadi's channel is the best... You both should training BJJ and judo one complementing another
🙇🏻♂️
Interesting fact: Jigoro Kano send his students to Aikido to gets their movements more fluid. But why not vice versa? Aikido and judo exchanged partly a lot of techniques.
If I had to guress based on the footage you showed, the reverse seoi nage might have been banned because it carries a lot of risk of opponents landing on their heads. This became a very real concern even in a cooperative performance like pro-wrestling because of how often wrestlers were willing to be dropped on their heads, which carries extreme risks with broken necks, concussions, and long-term damage to the body.
For some reason the video has no audio for me, someone else has the same problem? Maybe youtube is glitching on me
Never mind, now it works
Aikido needs updating:
1 take a look at Karate to divide the training practice between Kata or traditional Aikido, oyo waza, or practical application where kumi kata should be included alongside some ashi waza and koshi waza and then some boxing strikes and a friendly shiai to apply the techniques with aliveness like they do in Hatenkai...
Aikido= Kata based martial art...
Greetings from an Aikidoka.
Thanks
By far, when you talk about Ueshiba. Well, straight-forwardly, I want to say, the martial art skills that Ueshiba had honed and composed it then called it "Aikido" during his time maybe very effective to him personally, but not to all of his students. You can find the story of Enshin Karate and Ashihara Karate, both of them are descended from Kyokushin plus the application of Tai Sabaki + throws , some practioners said that both styles are quite complicated and hard to apply when facing a large opponent or an opponent with great mobility ( I have no offensive intention here to all Enshin and Ashihara practioners, just to point out some opinions I found ). Each respective style may work really well with the original founder + some special individuals who can can work them out, the same case may not happen with all of those who follow or "mimic" / "imitate"
I heard numerous stories that Ueshiba was a great martial artist, but not a great teacher. I think that may be true.
@@MartialArtsJourney 100% true, there are other Aikido styles since 1980s ( more than 10), notably Shidokan, Yoshinkan, Yoseikan and Iwama-ryu ) established parallel with Aikikai ( Ueshiba family branch ) => Original Ueshiba teaching wasn't perfect enough to satisfy every personal martial art perspective of different people
@@MartialArtsJourney Aikido is the Sword & Staff . Karate is the Bow & arrow.
The reverse seoinage was banned for a pretty important reason. It's a technique that at lower levels represents an elevated risk of major injury. While it's a perfectly good throw for world class competitors, the risk comes from the up-and-coming high school age athletes who are going to be using the best techniques that they're allowed to do.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I like how much judo is forbidden in competition (and therefore naturally falls into obsurity) but to me there is a big difference between banning a technique for the sake of protect teenagers and the banning of leg grabs.
I think based on O Sensei's experience regarding violence, he developed Aikido as a martial art that doesn't teach effective self defense or fighting techniques. It's more on principles. My Aikido instructors are practioners of other arts too. MMA fighters, kickboxers, boxers, BJJ. They believe they have fulfilled O Sensei's goal, harmony. Despite different backgrounds, they don't argue which ones are effective and which ones are not. They even recommend schools of other martial arts.
Rokas, what about Kudo? A video about it would be great!
I'm intending to try it out sometimes in the next couple of months!
@@MartialArtsJourney Kudo is one of those things that's really really exhausting
I really hate it, when the IOC and the IJF comes up with another stupid rule, that limits Judo's wonderfully diverse curriculum.
This is why I don't abide by these rules in my training and still teach the whole spectrum of Judo techniques. And I love learning new variations and when I have a firm grip on them (no pun intended) i teach them, so as to make my students as well rounded as I can get them.
Also I 100% concur: keep your back straight, ESPECIALLY if the other guy tries to push you down. You'll be amazed at how strong your legs can be!
From where is the first throw?
Great
It seems a take away for me from you comparing Aikido to other grappling arts. Other than sparring. Is that most techniques are much closer. Arm brought into the body for more control vs Aikido techniques that usually have more distance to them.
Yes. A lot of the philosophy of Judo and Aikido is lost on a lot of people, even practitioners Judoka and so on. Understanding the reason behind a thing, not merely the moments alone will increases your appreciation and mastery of it. All movements in Judo and Aikido have a philosophy behind it. Aikido and Judo are not a martial arts, they are principles. Leverage and momentum can move something (it’s easy to lift a refrigerator with a hand truck/hand trolly it’s harder with no assistance), flow and redirection is better than forcing (resisting something stronger than you can’t control often leads to injury. It’s hard and tiresome to swim against the current, focus your energy to slowly moving to where you want to be instead of focusing it). Circles are the oldest shape, and hold greater power here than you might see (find this shape and you find the truth of your art). Learning when to take hold and when to let go, it’s the most beautiful thing in life (Know and feel when something is there versus when something is not. I am not close when I am far away and the same for you. Are they on their toes, are their hips low, are they high, are they to my left or my right? Our relationship with ourselves is our relationship to others. Where is my strength? Am I tall or short? Big or small? Master this and no opponent will best you, even in their victory they will be defeated. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
IJF: Shido for Reverse Seoi-Nage
Shodan at my dojo: I’ll ignore that.
I've commented on this before elsewhere so please excuse me if I sound like a broken record. If someone studies aikido with a view to using it in completion or a real street fight, it will not work on its own. Aikido is a martial art that you do only after you have studied and become proficient in another martial arts like jujutsu and judo. This is why even well-known and respected aikidokas realise the limits of Aikido. If they had gotten their black belts in judo or jujutsu instead of aikido and then studied aikido, their aikido would work. You bring aikido into judo, not the other way round. But if you have studied aikido first, there are many benefits to be gained by studying judo in tandem, such as pressure testing of techniques, grip fighting and kuzushi. Judo is not a complete system - nothing is - but it is one of the most effective martial arts we have.
The guy who created CQC for MGS was Japanese special forces and he combined aikido and judo for the moves.
Judo is legit. Aikido is... somewhat more suspect. Kayla Harrison beats Stephen Seagal.
4:59 resistance is key! To proper throwing. How Akido train is like a basic blue belt. Only real instructor's can tell you how to get it. Because it's based on a split second of balance.
Go behind someone then tell them to throw a hard punch then push them while they throw it. They will go flying. It's the same thing. But if you're not a expert at blocks you will never get to levels 55 you will always be on 3 expert in teaching fantasy .
It honestly makes no sense whatsoever how many Judoka switched over to Aikido in the early days. There has to be something there extremely valuable.
You should actually research some of these systems and see how they developed and where they came from originally, I believe you'll like what you find!! I was doing a study of the late Edo period in Japan when I came to discover Tenjin Shin yo Ryu which is an ancestor art of Judo. We learn Atemi Waza which are that were the strikes from the several ancient traditional Japanese jujitsu styles. These techniques were adopted in judo by its by the founder Jigorō Kanō.
In judo making a throw while applying a lock is forbiden, because most probably, it will break the joint. That is one of the reason while most of the techniques of Aikido would be forbiden in judo.
I mean I'm happy you upgraded to the wireless mic but it kinda worries me when you're about to get thrown.
It's a sturdy one :)
It looks like the fall from the judo shihonage is risky. It's a head-first fall with the back arching over the neck and no room to adjust for ukemi.
I don't know if I'm just backing traditional logic but the spinning techniques of aikido make a lot more sense when someone has something in their hand you're trying to keep them and the blade or whatever away from you. Versus if they don't have anything
Very interesting. I'd love for you to consult a competent Systema instructor. There is incredible amounts of overlap with what they teach, and the concepts you two are discussing.
The crossing over of hands aikido is commonly used in kempo which came from kung fu. This would naturally be denied that this was a Japanese, Chinese connection by both sides.
Crossing the arms is way more common (and applicable) when weapons are involved. You only need a moment of control to create an opening for a cut. Engaging in closer grappling like wrestling or judo is definitely a good counter, but you still need that initial moment of control as to not be cut or stabbed while entering. That being said, this is coming from my limited HEMA experience.
Did you do Aikido before HEMA? Honestly curious.
@@lamesurfer1015 No, MMA.
I consider myself extremely lucky to have found a Tomiki Aikido sensei very close to me. The kicker is he doesn't even charge for classes but asks for donations since he teaches in a church where he has no overhead. And he's not interested in making money. Really. Could not believe it myself.
You schould take a look on Ellis Amdur works (he is a high rankend koryu jujutsu practicner) and his book "duelling with osensei"
I think both sides are right. The premise in both arts is that you have achieved some knowledge on your own body and the fighting principles (kuzushi, tsukuri and kake are exactly the same in both judo and aikido... And also in other arts but with different names!).
The problem of aikido, and yeah, an aikidoka is saying this: Is the way some instructors teach it.
There used to be challenges, fights and active resistence when aikido was more daito-ryu oriented... But in most of the old aikikai curriculum (previous to the official aikikai foundation) there used to be many judo/jujutsu moves such as kata guruma, tomoe nage (yeah, there were sutemi waza in aikido), the seoi nage variation of aikido's koshi nage, etc.
What happened throughout the years? I DON'T KNOW. But won't be me nor my dojo the ones forgetting the existence of such techniques.
For the last 3 years, I started and practiced intensely (at competition level) BJJ to the point it has become equally important in my life as aikido. In addition, recently I have taken judo again... and I can tell you that I wouldn't have assimilated the principles and techniques I am learning in both BJJ and judo without my aikido background.
And probably if I take one of the best BJJ or judo team mates to my aikido lessons they would be able to learn faster than usual too!
💯
What I've found interesting with Aikido guys trying to reverse engineer their art to be more effective by looking at other wrestling styles is, pretty much all other wrestling styles, whether it's jacket wrestling or no Gi, all involve the thrower getting solid grips on the opponent before setting up the throws, where as there are so many techniques in Aikido that require the opponent to solidly grip you to work the throw. An Aikidoka named Chris Hein, who also trained the Internal Chinese martial arts with Tim Cartmell (a well known teacher that's both a full contact Sanda champion and multiple high level BJJ campion), came to the belief that Aikido is really a wrestling art based on situations where the opponent is trying to disarm you, which makes a lot more sense when you think about why someone would want to grab your wrists in a fight and hold on for dear life. If you contextualize Aikido in that way, where you're holding a weapon, and opponent is much more likely to grab your wrists and not let go, which would not only make all of your Aikido techniques make a whole lot more sense, but it would also drop the need to go looking at other wrestling arts to make your art better... I mean, you could apply the Judo practices of randori to your Aikido training, but build in the requirement that one person is fighting to use a knife or sword (practice weapon of course), and the other person is wrestling to try to disarm you, then you get the opportunity to actually use your Aikido techniques under pressure without turning them into half Judo/half Aikido techniques. If you want to do jacket wrestling without this premise, just do straight up Judo, Sambo or Shuai Jiao etc. there's no need to reinvent the wheel, and Aikido obviously has techniques performed in different ways than those other arts for a reason. If you look at Judo, Sambo and Shuai Jiao throws, they all have a lot more similarities than Aikido, because I believe they have different goals. Chris Hein said that when he realize this perspective in his Aikido, and started setting up randori to reflect what he believed Aikido was actually for, it all made a lot more sense, and his art became a lot more effective without having to turn it into something it's not... Considering the fact that he trained at Tim Cartmell's old school and they did plenty of MMA based training, Chris is coming from a place where he wouldn't make such statements without having tested them to be true.
2 key elements that the old ways have that do not translate into the modern fight scene- and which create the disparity.
The aikido equivalent principles are roughly shomen-uchi and irimi. These you can still see in arts that retain weapons-based training (i.e. HEMA, Kali). They are basically the principles of OVERHEAD STRIKES & ENTRIES.
1. Virtually no one in combat-based, empty-hand sports has any reason to throw an overhead strike (unless mount+G&P). Things like Kendo's "men-uchi" or an overhead strike with an implement is non-existent. This practice is primarily a weapons-centered approach. Hence, you don't see overhead blocks as well.
2. Because of #1, and the lack of weapons, there is little to no reason for these practitioners to do ENTRIES (in the same old way), as these can get you hurt- because the principle is to DRIVE INTO the inside of an opponent's range, past the lethal end of their weapon- taking their space, and displacing them with yours. Taking the same entries for weapons and applying them as-is into empty-hand combat sports is essentially getting into your opponent's striking range for them to hit you. In the case of combat sports, the range is closer in, hence into clinch and grappling.
Just like how Machida or Thompson modified their Karate for MMA, it has to be done by individual practitioners for their own needs.
There seems to be a few common threads among judo and grappling. I wish the "grappling" tournaments like Abu Dhabi where actually grappling not just generic bjj
The more of your videos I watch, the more I realize Aikido was meant to be learned as an advanced art AFTER someone had mastered something like Judo.
I remember going to Aikido classes as a Judo blue belt myself and thinking "wow, this is really nasty shit".
Of course, I was thinking about applying the techniques with the force, power, aggression, and hip-domination that is part and parcel of Judo.
I watch old videos of you doing Aikido and there is none of that, you look like you are water dancing only, even when you tried to spar, you couldn't even grab people's wrists if they were resisting: doesn't happen to a proper judo guy.
Judo first, 3rd dan (the actual basic mastery of Judo), then Aikido, seems to be a total game changer.
When is your next MMA match???
I do Japanese jiu jitsu and they both came from that along with bjj if yall ever got a chance I suggest learning it although it’s kinda rare nowadays which is a shame
its not rare in the uk atleast not where i live
@@ZombiestFever ye fair I’m from uk too and there are a fair few places still ppl don’t talk about it much
@@weebpool5716 ok people look at mma alot that's probably why, i did judo for abit but now im doing Taekwondo because its more convenient with the time
There's no much goal about comparing efficiency between Aikido and any other art. One could practice Aikido as a passion for cultural/Japanese stuff and when anyone comes to confront the effectiveness of your art, you grab a katana. Quite simple. Lol.
I like this comment because they would not need to figure out how to blend anything and see that at some point it wasn't blended but taken apart.... Bunkai if you will, and made simpler in a sort.