Wow! Not only are you teaching me how to pronounce it correctly, but also getting a history lesson as well. Extremely impressed. Thanks! Glad I came across your channel! Hope I see more and more of this!
Well please don't hold off on it! I think I can speak for most of us when I say that most people who love these games usually have a deep interest or love for history. Especially military history from someone who knows what they are talking about and are passionate! Learning the game mechanics and history behind it at the same time is awesome. Again thanks for the entertainment and knowledge! Strength and Honour
The Thall Spearmen aren't *completely* useless special units.. they make a decent (albeit relatively expensive) meat-shield 2.0, though it takes some micro to make them work effectively - they screen with shield-wall to dissuade yolo-cav, and then can sit in jav range to grind down your opponents line. This tactic is effective if you use the Thralls to screen a jav-skirmisher line - the combined javelin strength is usually enough to knock most units down to half strength before the engagement, and horse will drop like flies. Ideally, you want to be baiting a charge into ECD shield-wall; the tricky bit is switching between javelin and shield wall in the heat of battle. If all goes well then they can hold for a minute or two, giving you time to reinforce with cheap ax and destroy. Elite spears to screen the flanks, hirdmen to plug gaps in the line, and horselords to run down skirmishers & protect the rear. The only real threat is long-range skirmishers, against which the Geats have no real answer apart from artillery, sadly.
That's just the thing - give me three Nordic band instead. Three javelin volleys, more HP, greater ability to act as meatshields. I have had much greater success with a Band-screen and having more funds available for melee infantry and solid spears than spending them on Thralls. I'm sure they can be made to work, but they are far too expensive for their fragility for me to put stock in them.
Fair comment. Their poor HP means many units make mincemeat of them. The only real difference between Thall and Band though, other than price, is the shieldwall. Of course, it won't save them from death, but it gives them utility in a wider range of situations: low armour sometimes encourages an opponent to waste ammunition on their shields, plus they offer a threat to cavalry pushes against the main line & brace better than Band in general - the loose formation of Band demands that you keep units behind them to protect your skirmish line, restricting your mobility somewhat. Invest chevrons in Thrall and they become plausible in melee in the right situations. I've only been using cheapest javelinmen to skirmish with with a reasonable degree of success, thus saving some cash for more legitimate infantry. Using cav defensively & slingers to counter skirmishers, & applying constant pressure with the javelins *usually* encourages the opponent to make a mistake, but if not then it allows you to dictate the flow of the battle somewhat and keep opponent on back-foot. I'll take another look at band - thought they were simply terrible before i saw your 'hidden stats' video re: weapon bonuses.
Maximus Decimus Meridius yes, am leaning toward to the Band now after some tests - CA need to knock 150+ coins off the price. Did you know Ötzi the iceman was the only casualty in a fight between ancient Levy Freemen and Nordic Armoured Mammoths? Fact.
Thanks for this vid. I love this faction despite the issues due to Beowulf being a Geat and cold doesn't bother them in the field. I tend to turtle up, shoot my foes with ammo, and then push forward, which isn't an ideal tactic for this roster. By the way, have you experimented with using Hun or Persian horse archer mercs in Geat armies? I was wondering about your thoughts on that since those units are a menace on the battlefield.
:P You'd never have 100000 greeks at any point. I don't think the successors in their biggest battles approached that. Alexander's entire army was around 20ish thousand including other forces he sent into asia. 100000 is a VERY rare number. Army sizes tend to be grossly inflated in historic accounts
Nowhere do I state that, you misunderstand completely. I say you would have battles approaching 100 000 men. Nowhere do I say that there were Greek armies of that size. Historians suggest that the maximum sustainable army in the period would be 40-50 000. There are several battles that could have come close to or exceeded this even using moderate estimates. Gaugamela, Cannae and Zama to name a few. The point is that even the largest battles fought in Scandinavia in the Viking Age, in some cases more than 1000 years after the ancient Battles give estimates of less than 10.000 men, usually significantly less than half that. It gives you a sense of scale even when considering possible inflation. Scandinavia was sparsely populated, and the army sizes reflected that. The population density of Italy was higher in the early ADs then it is today in Norway.
So would the Nordic Spear Masters be called Nordische Spreitmthr Meisters? This is assuming a similarity to the extremely limited knowledge of German I have from the poor amount of Yiddish that I know.
Well, a direct translation would be hard to do as there weren't really elite dedicated spearmen. Most warriors, regardless of status would og into battle with one or more spears and a sidearm in the form of an axe or a sword. - something like mannadr nordanverdr spjothirdmadr, omitting all the weird letters. , or mestr spjotmadr is probably better, omitting the "Nordic" -part or nordanverdr mestr spjotmadr leaving it in.
Maximus Decimus Meridius knowing that, it would've been cool if the nord spears had an option to drop their spears and use axes or swords. would also kinda bring more to the field and change up how you could use units!
Maximus Decimus Meridius Yeah, specialized weapon formations wasn't a thing at the time. It was usually a mixed band of a Lord and his followers mustering with whatever personal gear they preferred and owned. Not the standardized war kit of Greece and Rome.
Well, I just wrote a huge comment talking about a few detail from viking warfare in that naval combat video. In three minutes, while talking about the pikemen, you just covered the whole stuff. Pretty much the same thing I said there :(
Maximus Decimus Meridius My biggest complain to CA about looks would their shields, most unit have tiny shields. And bersekers, they look stupid and perform in a even more stupid way.
Berserkers should be a small unit that went berserk before going into combat and were unbreakable. Basically like the small hero-units of Shogun 2. They way they are now they are 100% worthless. Agreed on the shields, massive round ones were the most commonly used amongst the nordic Warriors.
Maximus Decimus Meridius uhum. And those green and yellow shields, which I personally like a bit, are from some units shared with the saxons. Their faction colors are green and yellow. I think it would be more accurate something like white and blue. These paterns would be even better IMO.
Chosen Warriors have 103 Morale, that's pretty outstanding. With all the scare the viking forefathers are fairly decent imo, and stronger than i would have expected them to be.
They will fight to the last man, but they underperform massively compared to, say Uars. The fear can be very nasty to deal with in combination with fshock troops, flaming, whistling and cavalry for sure! I mainly play as the Forefathers in QB, haven't lost yet.
Comparing them to a op unit is not really convincing. Uars will see a nerf for sure, but without a stat decrease in morale i don`t see any reason to lower their cost. Far worse units are the berserkers and geat spears, these units are in need of a buff. With the scare trait on so many units, the vikings have really good stats. In rome 2 scare definetly had a higher inpact on price. plus Nordic Horse lords are a surprisingly good unit for a faction which basically didn't had any horse warfare until much much later.
You have to compare them to units of similar cost in the current state of the game, not what might happen. The fact is, whether you are convinced or not, that against enemy swords with 50 weapon damage and a higher AP they underperform. Compared to other elites they also underperform, and there are no good reasons to bring them compared to the lower tier units.
If they lower the morale, then a price decrease is a good way to balance it. But with 103 morale, i can't make them like 800 cost. Combined with their abilitys and morale this would be to cheap.
First time their name is mention is in 98 ad in tacitus book Germania. it's said they live by the river Wisłas (Poland). Jordanis says they where from the island Scandza (Scandinavian peninsula). and honestly no one knows for sure. but there are alot of names that are similar to Goths. Geats, Gutar, Jutar, In sweden we have Västgötar and Östgötar meaning eastgeats and westgeats, mostly we bunch them up as one; Götar (geats). and then we have Gutar, the people who live on Gotland. (Gute is old swedish for goth) Jutar are from Jylland (Denmark) Im not an expert in proto Germanic languages or old norse or the history of the migration era/roman iron age, so thats where I'm going to stop. Waiting for a captain to jump in and fill the gaps..
The goths aren't directly related to the Geats. A third of the people who lived on Gotland (Gutar in swedish), went south and became known as the Goths. They got some land in the balkans (not sure if they conquered it or if it was just up for grabs), and then they got split up by the Huns and became the Visigoths and Ostrogoths. Gotland is a part of Sweden today, but the people who lived there was not the same as the swedish Geats.
I think the Geats are supposed to be Götar from the modern Götaland, one of Sweden's three parts/lands. (Land of the Geats.) This includes the modern provinces of Västergötland and Östergötland where their name lives on to this day. (Western and Eastern Land of the Geats.)
Best faction in the campaign though :3 and the Thralls are so cheap to maintain, so good for publick order stuff, but indeed, in a MP standpoint they are useless indeed
Yeah, that's part of the problem. A unit that has abilities that are useful in campaign can be completely useless in MP. Separate MP and SP-balance has been requested for a long time, since many abilities are only relevant in one of the game modes.
Huskarl sounds better in norwegian in my opinion, and the word it self has the same meaning in todays norwegain "hus" meaning house and "kar" meaning guy.
I am really disappointed with the norse units, they suck ass. You'd think that living on the extreme north would breed strong and reliable warriors, but I was wrong.
Wow! Not only are you teaching me how to pronounce it correctly, but also getting a history lesson as well. Extremely impressed. Thanks! Glad I came across your channel! Hope I see more and more of this!
Nice, thank you! I have held a bit off on the historical part both for the sake of brevity but nice to know it's appreciated!
Well please don't hold off on it! I think I can speak for most of us when I say that most people who love these games usually have a deep interest or love for history. Especially military history from someone who knows what they are talking about and are passionate! Learning the game mechanics and history behind it at the same time is awesome. Again thanks for the entertainment and knowledge!
Strength and Honour
Strength and honour.
Love having the translations, it adds something.
So we have Alan, Frank, Dane, and a vandal.
They walk into a bar
@@maximusnorvegicus and they say "ouch."
Dang, still waiting for higher resolutions.
The Thall Spearmen aren't *completely* useless special units.. they make a decent (albeit relatively expensive) meat-shield 2.0, though it takes some micro to make them work effectively - they screen with shield-wall to dissuade yolo-cav, and then can sit in jav range to grind down your opponents line. This tactic is effective if you use the Thralls to screen a jav-skirmisher line - the combined javelin strength is usually enough to knock most units down to half strength before the engagement, and horse will drop like flies.
Ideally, you want to be baiting a charge into ECD shield-wall; the tricky bit is switching between javelin and shield wall in the heat of battle. If all goes well then they can hold for a minute or two, giving you time to reinforce with cheap ax and destroy. Elite spears to screen the flanks, hirdmen to plug gaps in the line, and horselords to run down skirmishers & protect the rear. The only real threat is long-range skirmishers, against which the Geats have no real answer apart from artillery, sadly.
That's just the thing - give me three Nordic band instead. Three javelin volleys, more HP, greater ability to act as meatshields. I have had much greater success with a Band-screen and having more funds available for melee infantry and solid spears than spending them on Thralls. I'm sure they can be made to work, but they are far too expensive for their fragility for me to put stock in them.
Fair comment. Their poor HP means many units make mincemeat of them. The only real difference between Thall and Band though, other than price, is the shieldwall. Of course, it won't save them from death, but it gives them utility in a wider range of situations: low armour sometimes encourages an opponent to waste ammunition on their shields, plus they offer a threat to cavalry pushes against the main line & brace better than Band in general - the loose formation of Band demands that you keep units behind them to protect your skirmish line, restricting your mobility somewhat. Invest chevrons in Thrall and they become plausible in melee in the right situations. I've only been using cheapest javelinmen to skirmish with with a reasonable degree of success, thus saving some cash for more legitimate infantry. Using cav defensively & slingers to counter skirmishers, & applying constant pressure with the javelins *usually* encourages the opponent to make a mistake, but if not then it allows you to dictate the flow of the battle somewhat and keep opponent on back-foot.
I'll take another look at band - thought they were simply terrible before i saw your 'hidden stats' video re: weapon bonuses.
Spearwall, not Shieldwall, sorry... PS: the mass bonus of Spearwall also seems to help prevent enemy infantry from pushing through/overlapping
Greg Dixon If Thrall Spears cost 210 I would bring 6 , cast of their trelldom and call them Levy Freemen.
Maximus Decimus Meridius yes, am leaning toward to the Band now after some tests - CA need to knock 150+ coins off the price. Did you know Ötzi the iceman was the only casualty in a fight between ancient Levy Freemen and Nordic Armoured Mammoths? Fact.
Thanks for this vid. I love this faction despite the issues due to Beowulf being a Geat and cold doesn't bother them in the field. I tend to turtle up, shoot my foes with ammo, and then push forward, which isn't an ideal tactic for this roster. By the way, have you experimented with using Hun or Persian horse archer mercs in Geat armies? I was wondering about your thoughts on that since those units are a menace on the battlefield.
I think the reason they gave them such crap special units is due to the fact of their faction trait which negates Snow Attrition.
Dude, you re running cool channel, i wish i had known it earlier :) btw Where are you from? You have nice accent.
norway i think
:P You'd never have 100000 greeks at any point. I don't think the successors in their biggest battles approached that. Alexander's entire army was around 20ish thousand including other forces he sent into asia. 100000 is a VERY rare number. Army sizes tend to be grossly inflated in historic accounts
Nowhere do I state that, you misunderstand completely. I say you would have battles approaching 100 000 men. Nowhere do I say that there were Greek armies of that size.
Historians suggest that the maximum sustainable army in the period would be 40-50 000. There are several battles that could have come close to or exceeded this even using moderate estimates. Gaugamela, Cannae and Zama to name a few. The point is that even the largest battles fought in Scandinavia in the Viking Age, in some cases more than 1000 years after the ancient Battles give estimates of less than 10.000 men, usually significantly less than half that. It gives you a sense of scale even when considering possible inflation. Scandinavia was sparsely populated, and the army sizes reflected that. The population density of Italy was higher in the early ADs then it is today in Norway.
So would the Nordic Spear Masters be called Nordische Spreitmthr Meisters? This is assuming a similarity to the extremely limited knowledge of German I have from the poor amount of Yiddish that I know.
Well, a direct translation would be hard to do as there weren't really elite dedicated spearmen. Most warriors, regardless of status would og into battle with one or more spears and a sidearm in the form of an axe or a sword. - something like mannadr nordanverdr spjothirdmadr, omitting all the weird letters. , or mestr spjotmadr is probably better, omitting the "Nordic" -part or nordanverdr mestr spjotmadr leaving it in.
Kickass, thanks for the detailed response!!
Maximus Decimus Meridius knowing that, it would've been cool if the nord spears had an option to drop their spears and use axes or swords. would also kinda bring more to the field and change up how you could use units!
Maximus Decimus Meridius Yeah, specialized weapon formations wasn't a thing at the time. It was usually a mixed band of a Lord and his followers mustering with whatever personal gear they preferred and owned. Not the standardized war kit of Greece and Rome.
They did like no balancing with these factions
One thing about the thrall spears is that they get Spear Wall while Nordic Levies don't.
3 Nordic Band. Units with low armour/health just die to cavalry even though they have wall.
Well, I just wrote a huge comment talking about a few detail from viking warfare in that naval combat video. In three minutes, while talking about the pikemen, you just covered the whole stuff. Pretty much the same thing I said there :(
Hehe, rants are ranty!
Maximus Decimus Meridius My biggest complain to CA about looks would their shields, most unit have tiny shields. And bersekers, they look stupid and perform in a even more stupid way.
Berserkers should be a small unit that went berserk before going into combat and were unbreakable. Basically like the small hero-units of Shogun 2. They way they are now they are 100% worthless. Agreed on the shields, massive round ones were the most commonly used amongst the nordic Warriors.
Maximus Decimus Meridius uhum. And those green and yellow shields, which I personally like a bit, are from some units shared with the saxons. Their faction colors are green and yellow. I think it would be more accurate something like white and blue. These paterns would be even better IMO.
MrPsilva95 Or green and red, blue and red maybe. They all look accurate enough.
Du är svensk eller hur?🤔
I know I'm two years late, but I just wanna point out that "thrall" is pronounced "träl" not "freitel"
In Swedish yeah, not in old norse.
Oh okay
Shouldn't roman legionaries be able to carry more darts then 2? In history they had about 7- 10.
OP as balls.
well in the campagin they could use a hand
Chosen Warriors have 103 Morale, that's pretty outstanding. With all the scare the viking forefathers are fairly decent imo, and stronger than i would have expected them to be.
They will fight to the last man, but they underperform massively compared to, say Uars. The fear can be very nasty to deal with in combination with fshock troops, flaming, whistling and cavalry for sure! I mainly play as the Forefathers in QB, haven't lost yet.
Comparing them to a op unit is not really convincing. Uars will see a nerf for sure, but without a stat decrease in morale i don`t see any reason to lower their cost. Far worse units are the berserkers and geat spears, these units are in need of a buff. With the scare trait on so many units, the vikings have really good stats. In rome 2 scare definetly had a higher inpact on price. plus Nordic Horse lords are a surprisingly good unit for a faction which basically didn't had any horse warfare until much much later.
You have to compare them to units of similar cost in the current state of the game, not what might happen. The fact is, whether you are convinced or not, that against enemy swords with 50 weapon damage and a higher AP they underperform. Compared to other elites they also underperform, and there are no good reasons to bring them compared to the lower tier units.
If they lower the morale, then a price decrease is a good way to balance it. But with 103 morale, i can't make them like 800 cost. Combined with their abilitys and morale this would be to cheap.
Maximus Decimus Meridius To be fair, doesen't EVERYTHING underperform compared to Uars? :p
Are the Geats and the Goths related or something?
First time their name is mention is in 98 ad in tacitus book Germania. it's said they live by the river Wisłas (Poland). Jordanis says they where from the island Scandza (Scandinavian peninsula). and honestly no one knows for sure. but there are alot of names that are similar to Goths. Geats, Gutar, Jutar,
In sweden we have Västgötar and Östgötar meaning eastgeats and westgeats, mostly we bunch them up as one; Götar (geats).
and then we have Gutar, the people who live on Gotland. (Gute is old swedish for goth)
Jutar are from Jylland (Denmark)
Im not an expert in proto Germanic languages or old norse or the history of the migration era/roman iron age, so thats where I'm going to stop. Waiting for a captain to jump in and fill the gaps..
Its mystery i guess just like the origin of the Dorians in Greek history.They just know they come from the north
very interesting anyhow!
The goths aren't directly related to the Geats. A third of the people who lived on Gotland (Gutar in swedish), went south and became known as the Goths. They got some land in the balkans (not sure if they conquered it or if it was just up for grabs), and then they got split up by the Huns and became the Visigoths and Ostrogoths.
Gotland is a part of Sweden today, but the people who lived there was not the same as the swedish Geats.
I think the Geats are supposed to be Götar from the modern Götaland, one of Sweden's three parts/lands. (Land of the Geats.) This includes the modern provinces of Västergötland and Östergötland where their name lives on to this day. (Western and Eastern Land of the Geats.)
the funny looking "D" in some of these names (like hirdmadr) is pronounced "th" in old norse :)
actually I hear now you pronounce it like that already, mb, sounded like d sometimes
Best faction in the campaign though :3 and the Thralls are so cheap to maintain, so good for publick order stuff, but indeed, in a MP standpoint they are useless indeed
Yeah, that's part of the problem. A unit that has abilities that are useful in campaign can be completely useless in MP. Separate MP and SP-balance has been requested for a long time, since many abilities are only relevant in one of the game modes.
Huskarl sounds better in norwegian in my opinion, and the word it self has the same meaning in todays norwegain "hus" meaning house and "kar" meaning guy.
Yup!
hehe u pronounce götar wrong
I am really disappointed with the norse units, they suck ass. You'd think that living on the extreme north would breed strong and reliable warriors, but I was wrong.
The Dane-Axe units are good, Hirdmen are great but the Warriors and single-handed axes are terrible.
Maximus Decimus Meridius Do you know if there are any mods to fix this yet?
I think there was one in the works, don't know if it's ready though.
Maximus Decimus Meridius Funny how everytime I try to fight against german counterparts I get killed
The Nordic axe warriors in Geats are epicly strong!
Geats and Goths are the same
Geats and Goths are the same