One other feature of VCAs is when muted will silence all sends going to other buses that are not under the control of whatever the assigned bus is. I use three VCAs for muting Vocals, Music, Beat, and if they are sharing FX sends such as Reverb or Delay, just muting the bus you will still hear the FX sends, whereas muting a VCA will totally silence everything assigned to the VCA.
Exactly! And if you solo a BUS (let's say the BUS sums 8 drum tracks) you can't hear the individual sends (say you send just the snare to a plate reverb for example). The sound with the BUS soloed will be bone dry (well, if you've put reverbs as inserts on a ch it will be heard). BUT if the drum tracks are in the same VCA group and you solo that VCA you get to hear all individual sends. AND this is where I think Logic's "in between" solution is both genius and confusing is that if you create a track stack (summing stack!) it passes audio as a BUS...AND...the solo funkction will act like if it was a VCA... got me?
I wish every video explaining things in Logic was like this one. 10/10 concise, easy to listen to and understand. No wasted time talking about unrelated BS or reiterating things that have already been stated. Thank you
All that agree, please let me & MTHG kno: I think all of MTHG’s vids are best in class, and there is a lot of great posters out there! He’s certainly the Beatles of explaining Logic. Its an art form he’s mastered. It’s him, I bold underscored line, everyone else follows. Thank you, so very much, for all you do, and don’t let Yoko be a disruption:)
Thank you Sean for making that so much easier to understand. It has baffled me for quite some time. Now I have a much better understanding, thanks to you. :)
Superb!! Thanks so much for this. One other thing that is handy with VCA’s is using them to control the overall mix volume for tracks that have volume automation. So much better than editing the automation parameters.
Back in the day VCAs allowed two or four hands to mix multiple tracks (as submixes) since it was mixed live to tape. A 32 channel desk often had 8 VCAs for example.
That was AWESOME!!! Thank you brother. You are helping to lift the veil of ignorance and unfounded fear of recording one video at a time. May you live to see the marriages of your children’s,children’s children! ✌️
Weird compliment but yeah, Your voice is the most pleasing to ears compared to any of the tutors I've heard over youtube! I can listen to your voice and watch tutorials for hours and not get irritated lol
thanks for every video!!! we are releasing our album soon and we recorded it ourselves and i learned logic from your tutorials... so a huge thanks goes to you!! 🤩
Your videos are absolutely the best in terms of clarity and I always use them as my first (and often) only port of call when I want to learn a new feature in Logic Pro. I always recommend them to my high school students too, and invariably they agree with me. Many thanks for the excellent service you provide!!
This video answered a few questions I've had about controlling volumes of groups of tracks easily, without summing them. I've been trying to set that up easily so that I can quickly bring a single mix element/track a few dB above the rest of the mix to hear it in context, but a little more clearly, for adjustment. Now that'll be extremely quick and simple to toggle! Thanks for all your videos - they've helped me get to the music faster.
Amazingly helpful explanation! On point, no blah, just sound information! Having a memory like a sieve, I came here two or three times already. Thank you!
Nice video, thanks. Another important aspect about Busses and VCAs is that if you have Sends on single tracks within a Bus-Group and you change the Volume of the Bus, then Sends will not be affected. So if you have a Reverb on the Sends and lower the Volume of the Bus, the Reverb will be louder in comparison the Bus Mix (if the Reverb Track is not part of the Bus). If you use a VCA that will not happen.
Ohh damn that's correctttt, because the bus is just passing on the signal after adjusting the volume, and has nothing to do with the fader or sends of the individual track, but a vca is a controller of the relative levels of all individual tracks under it... That's good stuff man.
Good video. I come from those large format analog console days. I miss them sometimes! A couple of additional notes for this: Adjusting levels as "groups" vs VCAs becomes very different when you start using automation. You can adjust the individual channel levels with the VCA without worrying about your automation being affected. Also, with Aux Busses vs VCAs, if you have post-fade sends on your individual channels for effects (or any other output routing), bringing down the VCA will also bring down the send just the same as if you were to bring the channel fader down. Whereas if you just bring down the Aux Bus channel they are routed to, those aux sends will still continue to send. Could be a cool effect I suppose, but if I want that effect I'll set that individual send to pre-fade instead so it isn't all or nothing. For my workflow with large track counts I never use the Summing stack, always the Folder stack. This way I can preserve all of that routing in my tracks and just manually send individual tracks to separate output busses. Maybe all the drums go on one, or maybe I'll group kicks and snares out to a bus and route that bus out to a drum bus or parallel bus. Keeps things very clean while still allowing total control. It's almost necessary in my setup as I have multiple preset busses, one full of different compressors, another one with different EQs, another one with helpers, then another with reverbs, etc. But that's a whole different conversation. ;)
Very helpful!! Thank you! I love the idea at the end of using bus grouping in combo with VCA subsets of the bussed tracks. Very thorough, clear and quick instructional vid!! Great work!!
Thanks, I definitely feel I understand VCAs and groups more now. Giving logics convenience with summing stacks I don't really feel the need for groups and VCAs but I know that when it comes time to work on a desk it will be valuable to know. Thanks!
dug it ...i think @12:52 the real strength of VCA as opposed to buss is highlighted and at the same time...while i'm new to logic..and enjoying the ride....(mostly use ableton and cubase). but that recently i've started using harrison mix bus 32c,,,,the vca track that controls assigned tracks...when it moves so do the faders in the assigned tracks......as you saw and talked about in studio 1......i'd say logic are just behind the game here...and it would be a handy adjustment to have that visual reinforcement of the faders moving in response to the VCA controller......enjoyed the tutorial all the way....
Seriously dude, awesome content here. Subscribing because you helped me understand what I consider to be a CORE concept of mixing. Much love, keep up the great work.
The difference between a group and a VCA is a visual flow that shows the relative changes not visible in the VCA. I'll take the added complexity of Shift-G/Shift-G to get those output control for each member of the group relative to their levels.
A lot of stuff sounds like Chinese to me, but your videos are very helpful!!!! I'm definitely learning/understanding because of them. Keep up the good work.
I never knew what the groups feature did. This explanation was great. Lately I’ve been processing my sub-groups on a bus, but leaving it at unity volume and sending those same tracks to a VCA for volume adjustment. I’ve found this helps me not have to fuss around as much with my effects sends on the individual tracks cause doing group volume on the bus messes with dry/wet of post-fader/pan effects on the individual tracks sends. If I have to automate a group, it definitely gets automated on the VCA so those sends maintain their relative levels. I wish you could create a VCA of a VCA cause I like having static “final” faders. If I have to automate a VCA, I’ll do the static adjustment on bus, keeping in mind I’ll have to be aware of my effects’ wetness. Ultimately I like to get my mix grouped down to like 5ish non-automated group faders so that I can tweak the balance of the instrument groups without dealing with the automation curves. I like to close my eyes and set the levels on my control surface so that I’m not getting influenced by the meters or other visual cues.
Excellent vid, I knew some of this stuff but hadn’t heard it all explained so concisely. I need to utilize more of these tricks to streamline my workflow.
This is so useful. I knew all of it except the VCA stuff so thank you for clearing it up for me. Now I feel like I have complete control of the mixer :)
It sounds like VCAs are essentially a (invisible) gain plugin placed at the end of the plugin chain (right before the fader) for every channel in the VCA. The individual gains are not accessible themselves, rather the VCA fader sets/controls them all in parallel. So the gain setting for every individual channel is always the same for a given fader position.
You could think of it that way, for sure. On analog consoles VCAs are voltage control sources, so they feed a variable voltage to the channels within the VCA to control their group volume - they also do a great job of maintaining the relative volume between tracks. On Analog consoles, "Groups" as we see them in DAWs do not exist, so VCAs were the solution that was created, prior to DAWs. Some would argue that VCAs within DAWs are pointless because of DAW channel groups. They effectively do the same thing, but there are some situations where I find VCAs more useful. Especially since you can easily change the volume of an individual channel without having to disable the group.
Amazing teaching, Seriously!!! would love a video on the last stuff you said, multiple outputs and the master fader. Would love to see an application on multiple outputs and why you would do them and how it looks like. It has always confused me. You are awesome. Im a fan forever!
Great video, I learned these differences the hard way! I use summing stacks for more or less everything to group drums, vocals and guitars and put different effect plugins on busses so I can use them anywhere.
This video is absolutely THE BEST video on UA-cam explaining all the different types of routing in Logic Pro X. Apple should hire this guy.
Couldn't agree more.
I agree completely
The BEST video ever!!! Thank you so much. I'm honestly near tears here. Thumbs up
Agreed!
I just learned so much
So nice to finally understand this stuff. Thank you!
One other feature of VCAs is when muted will silence all sends going to other buses that are not under the control of whatever the assigned bus is. I use three VCAs for muting Vocals, Music, Beat, and if they are sharing FX sends such as Reverb or Delay, just muting the bus you will still hear the FX sends, whereas muting a VCA will totally silence everything assigned to the VCA.
Exactly! And if you solo a BUS (let's say the BUS sums 8 drum tracks) you can't hear the individual sends (say you send just the snare to a plate reverb for example). The sound with the BUS soloed will be bone dry (well, if you've put reverbs as inserts on a ch it will be heard). BUT if the drum tracks are in the same VCA group and you solo that VCA you get to hear all individual sends. AND this is where I think Logic's "in between" solution is both genius and confusing is that if you create a track stack (summing stack!) it passes audio as a BUS...AND...the solo funkction will act like if it was a VCA... got me?
I wish every video explaining things in Logic was like this one. 10/10 concise, easy to listen to and understand. No wasted time talking about unrelated BS or reiterating things that have already been stated. Thank you
This explanation is amazing. Definitely keeping up to date with your vids. Thank you for the detail you have gone to in this one.
All that agree, please let me & MTHG kno:
I think all of MTHG’s vids are best in class, and there is a lot of great posters out there! He’s certainly the Beatles of explaining Logic. Its an art form he’s mastered.
It’s him, I bold underscored line, everyone else follows. Thank you, so very much, for all you do, and don’t let Yoko be a disruption:)
Thanks, MTHG! Much appreciated...
Absolutely, no doubt, the best video i’ve seen on this topic. I have literally never understood it fully in five years
Thank you Sean for making that so much easier to understand. It has baffled me for quite some time. Now I have a much better understanding, thanks to you. :)
Ah! In Logic Pro X, a folder track is a VCA, and a Summing Stack is a buss. That clicked my bulb. Thank you!
The phrase, "clicked my bulb" really clicked _my_ bulb if ya know whada mean
Ahhh Yess -- well spotted my friend :D
Being a teacher myself, I can make this statement: You Are an amazing teacher! Thank you so much for let us learn so much from you!
I didn't know all the details of these. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll start using them accordingly from now on. SUPER USEFUL
Superb!! Thanks so much for this. One other thing that is handy with VCA’s is using them to control the overall mix volume for tracks that have volume automation. So much better than editing the automation parameters.
Spectacular video...The new stacks update in logic threw me off a bit but now I have no questions left, thank you
Back in the day VCAs allowed two or four hands to mix multiple tracks (as submixes) since it was mixed live to tape. A 32 channel desk often had 8 VCAs for example.
That was AWESOME!!! Thank you brother. You are helping to lift the veil of ignorance and unfounded fear of recording one video at a time. May you live to see the marriages of your children’s,children’s children! ✌️
Weird compliment but yeah,
Your voice is the most pleasing to ears compared to any of the tutors I've heard over youtube!
I can listen to your voice and watch tutorials for hours and not get irritated lol
That was very helpful, thanks!
That was the best, most concise and straightforward explanation of this topic that I've ever seen. Way better than what's in the Logic manual. Thanks!
thanks for every video!!! we are releasing our album soon and we recorded it ourselves and i learned logic from your tutorials... so a huge thanks goes to you!! 🤩
well done. i like your way of explaining this stuff. in particular your "in terms of signal flow, there is no difference between X and Y"
Thank You. I've been an audio engineer for 15 years and you just taught me something new ! :D
Really cleared a lot of doubts of routing in Logic Pro X. Thanks for making this video.
This is the best explanation I've seen. Nice to have you back making videos.
Oh my god, did I start to solve the most difficult mathematics in the world and even create art using it 😳 I am grateful to you brother🙏
Your videos are absolutely the best in terms of clarity and I always use them as my first (and often) only port of call when I want to learn a new feature in Logic Pro. I always recommend them to my high school students too, and invariably they agree with me. Many thanks for the excellent service you provide!!
Best explanation/demonstration on this topic I've seen thus far. MTHG videos on Logic Pro X are the best. Thank you for everything!
This video answered a few questions I've had about controlling volumes of groups of tracks easily, without summing them. I've been trying to set that up easily so that I can quickly bring a single mix element/track a few dB above the rest of the mix to hear it in context, but a little more clearly, for adjustment. Now that'll be extremely quick and simple to toggle! Thanks for all your videos - they've helped me get to the music faster.
Amazingly helpful explanation! On point, no blah, just sound information! Having a memory like a sieve, I came here two or three times already. Thank you!
Guys like this make youtube a better place
Incredible. Thank you for this, I can't wait to dive into your other videos. Subscribed!
Nice video, thanks. Another important aspect about Busses and VCAs is that if you have Sends on single tracks within a Bus-Group and you change the Volume of the Bus, then Sends will not be affected. So if you have a Reverb on the Sends and lower the Volume of the Bus, the Reverb will be louder in comparison the Bus Mix (if the Reverb Track is not part of the Bus). If you use a VCA that will not happen.
Ohh damn that's correctttt, because the bus is just passing on the signal after adjusting the volume, and has nothing to do with the fader or sends of the individual track, but a vca is a controller of the relative levels of all individual tracks under it... That's good stuff man.
Good video. I come from those large format analog console days. I miss them sometimes!
A couple of additional notes for this: Adjusting levels as "groups" vs VCAs becomes very different when you start using automation. You can adjust the individual channel levels with the VCA without worrying about your automation being affected.
Also, with Aux Busses vs VCAs, if you have post-fade sends on your individual channels for effects (or any other output routing), bringing down the VCA will also bring down the send just the same as if you were to bring the channel fader down. Whereas if you just bring down the Aux Bus channel they are routed to, those aux sends will still continue to send. Could be a cool effect I suppose, but if I want that effect I'll set that individual send to pre-fade instead so it isn't all or nothing.
For my workflow with large track counts I never use the Summing stack, always the Folder stack. This way I can preserve all of that routing in my tracks and just manually send individual tracks to separate output busses. Maybe all the drums go on one, or maybe I'll group kicks and snares out to a bus and route that bus out to a drum bus or parallel bus. Keeps things very clean while still allowing total control. It's almost necessary in my setup as I have multiple preset busses, one full of different compressors, another one with different EQs, another one with helpers, then another with reverbs, etc. But that's a whole different conversation. ;)
You don’t stop to make our lives easier!
Thanks so much.
Do you have a video on how to screencast with the pc’s audio like you do?
Very helpful!! Thank you! I love the idea at the end of using bus grouping in combo with VCA subsets of the bussed tracks. Very thorough, clear and quick instructional vid!! Great work!!
Thanks Josh! I had been struggling with this over the last month or so. All clear now. I oh you a career!
Outstanding, you deserve a standing ovation. Thanks sooooooo Much
Thanks, I definitely feel I understand VCAs and groups more now. Giving logics convenience with summing stacks I don't really feel the need for groups and VCAs but I know that when it comes time to work on a desk it will be valuable to know. Thanks!
Literally invaluable to a new Logic user in 2020; thanks Josh! 🙏🏻
Very helpful, thanks. I used sub-groups all the time on an analogue desk 30 years ago, but have struggled to find out how to do it effectively in LPX.
You Da Man! Such a valuable lesson that saves me time to learn thru books or class about this thing in Logic pro, thanks again and cheers!
My day 1 on Logic and this was one of the first videos I found, so glad I did!!
dug it ...i think @12:52 the real strength of VCA as opposed to buss is highlighted and at the same time...while i'm new to logic..and enjoying the ride....(mostly use ableton and cubase). but that recently i've started using harrison mix bus 32c,,,,the vca track that controls assigned tracks...when it moves so do the faders in the assigned tracks......as you saw and talked about in studio 1......i'd say logic are just behind the game here...and it would be a handy adjustment to have that visual reinforcement of the faders moving in response to the VCA controller......enjoyed the tutorial all the way....
The best way to explain the topic. Thank you Tech Guy!
Man, you are just the best. I am so freaking grateful for you and your work
Seriously dude, awesome content here. Subscribing because you helped me understand what I consider to be a CORE concept of mixing. Much love, keep up the great work.
Came here to find out the best way to buss tracks and ending up learning about VCAs too. Thanks!!
Best video in logic I’ve seen. Really helped me understand the daw to the next level, which I needed. Thank you
The difference between a group and a VCA is a visual flow that shows the relative changes not visible in the VCA. I'll take the added complexity of Shift-G/Shift-G to get those output control for each member of the group relative to their levels.
Best video on UA-cam! Please make more of these type of doubt clearing videos of logic pro X!
Great video, never really saw the need to use the separate VCAs but great example with the close vs cymbal mics!
This is video absolutely staggering, very well explained and you have a very good sense to repeat things at the right time.
Thanks a ton ! cheers from France !
Your explanations couldn't be clearer. Thanks for all your great work.
Great Video MTHG!!
Thanks. I'm relatively new to this and have found these issues you have addressed mysterious and confusing. This is great.
THIS VIDEO IS AMAZING THANKK YOUUU
A lot of stuff sounds like Chinese to me, but your videos are very helpful!!!! I'm definitely learning/understanding because of them. Keep up the good work.
It's actually Cantonese, but surround yourself with the language and it will start to make sense! Joshua is a really good guy to follow and learn from
Fantastic video, such a clear and precise description/contrast
This was very informative. I'm loving the summing track stacks!
Hey Josh I miss the analog days sometimes...great tip for those using DAW's and the younger generation....Joe from Staten Island
Thank you so much for this .it almost saved my life .
Well explained! Refreshing to have someone that gets to the point.
Great video-never really understood what VCA and groups did before-you explained these concepts very clearly
Great explanation. Especially regarding the VCA
Thanks for clearing up a concept that had clouded my mind for so long! You’re videos are great.
I’m new to MacBook and logic all on the same day been a week now this really helps
This has helped me so much, very clear and concise Thank you!!
Thank you so much!! Best teacher on UA-cam!
watched this one about a dozen times and I think I've almost got it!😃👍
Thanks Mate. You Are A Good Teacher. Easy To Grasp.
Fantastic - very well presented. Even I understand the difference between Busses, VCAs and Groups now. ( and track stacks ). Thanks very much.
I never knew what the groups feature did. This explanation was great. Lately I’ve been processing my sub-groups on a bus, but leaving it at unity volume and sending those same tracks to a VCA for volume adjustment. I’ve found this helps me not have to fuss around as much with my effects sends on the individual tracks cause doing group volume on the bus messes with dry/wet of post-fader/pan effects on the individual tracks sends. If I have to automate a group, it definitely gets automated on the VCA so those sends maintain their relative levels. I wish you could create a VCA of a VCA cause I like having static “final” faders. If I have to automate a VCA, I’ll do the static adjustment on bus, keeping in mind I’ll have to be aware of my effects’ wetness. Ultimately I like to get my mix grouped down to like 5ish non-automated group faders so that I can tweak the balance of the instrument groups without dealing with the automation curves. I like to close my eyes and set the levels on my control surface so that I’m not getting influenced by the meters or other visual cues.
Love your videos man!,
Love your voice! If there are several videos covering one same topic, I'm definitely gonna pick your to watch.
Nice job as always. This really helps to put these features into a context. Thanks.
Excellent vid, I knew some of this stuff but hadn’t heard it all explained so concisely. I need to utilize more of these tricks to streamline my workflow.
Just found you and am so glad! Clear, concise and above all, intelligent. Thenks a million (from France).
Thanks so much. Ideal balance between speed of explanation and completeness!
This was faaaaaantastic. Thank you for putting this together!
This is so useful. I knew all of it except the VCA stuff so thank you for clearing it up for me. Now I feel like I have complete control of the mixer :)
Great explanation, trying to learn logic pro for ipad, and this one came very handy, thank you
Fantastic video, Music Tech Help Guy.
Thank you Josh.
As everybody else is saying - you explained this sooo well! Thanks a lot, man!
Thanks
It sounds like VCAs are essentially a (invisible) gain plugin placed at the end of the plugin chain (right before the fader) for every channel in the VCA. The individual gains are not accessible themselves, rather the VCA fader sets/controls them all in parallel. So the gain setting for every individual channel is always the same for a given fader position.
You could think of it that way, for sure. On analog consoles VCAs are voltage control sources, so they feed a variable voltage to the channels within the VCA to control their group volume - they also do a great job of maintaining the relative volume between tracks. On Analog consoles, "Groups" as we see them in DAWs do not exist, so VCAs were the solution that was created, prior to DAWs. Some would argue that VCAs within DAWs are pointless because of DAW channel groups. They effectively do the same thing, but there are some situations where I find VCAs more useful. Especially since you can easily change the volume of an individual channel without having to disable the group.
Thank you for this. So helpful
Thanks so much and God bless! Great help, as usual!
Thank you so much for all your videos. They are much appreciated. Great job!
this guy is the best
Brilliant! Best explanation EVER!
Amazing teaching, Seriously!!! would love a video on the last stuff you said, multiple outputs and the master fader. Would love to see an application on multiple outputs and why you would do them and how it looks like. It has always confused me. You are awesome. Im a fan forever!
Thanks for explaining all these different paths in such a level of detail. This is extremely helpful.
Love your videos! Really appreciate all you do. Thanks. Oh yeah, I just realized that your talking voice is scary similar to "Justin Bartha's"!
Thank you for the clear and precise explanations you provide.
This is perfect, Ungodly amounts of thanks to you, Sir! ✨
Great video, I learned these differences the hard way! I use summing stacks for more or less everything to group drums, vocals and guitars and put different effect plugins on busses so I can use them anywhere.
Such a good video. Impeccable explanation!
Super clear and helpful explanation of these. Thanks a bunch!