The Australian 9th Division in the Second Battle of El Alamein
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- Опубліковано 26 жов 2022
- The Australian 9th Division in the Second Battle of El Alamein
With Craig Tibbitts
Part of a series of shows to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the battle of El Alamein on WW2TV
• El Alamein - 80th Anni...
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Text from www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyc...
Three major battles occurred around El Alamein between July and November 1942, and were the turning point of the war in North Africa. The Australian 9th Division, led by Lieutenant General Leslie Morshead, played a key role in two of these battles, enhancing its reputation earned defending Tobruk during 1941.
From August until the end of October 1942, the Allied army grew steadily in strength with the arrival of more troops and equipment. The Axis forces, on the other hand, were weakening, with their supply lines strangled by Allied air and naval attacks. A change in command of the Eighth Army occurred in mid-August when Auchinleck was replaced by Lieutenant General Bernard Montgomery. “Monty” - as he was universally known - set about making positive changes in the Eighth Army, training it and preparing it for the battles to come.
On the last day of August Rommel launched another offensive. In this last and desperate attempt to oust the Allies from the Alamein line, German and Italian armoured forces massed in the southern sector and made a sweeping hook that drove the Allies back to the Alam el Halfa Ridge. The Allied strength, however, soon proved itself as they pushed the Axis forces back over the next few days. In addition, they faced incessant Allied bombing from the DAF, an acute shortage of petrol for their tanks, and a diversionary raid by Australians in the north. After this battle, Rommel went on the defensive, and prepared for the Allied offensive he knew would soon come.
On the night of 23 October 1942, a massive artillery barrage heralded the great Allied offensive. The infantry successfully captured most of their objectives; however, the tanks were unable to follow through and continue the thrust. With the Axis forces stubbornly holding their lines intact, Montgomery worried that his offensive was becoming bogged down. Changing tactics from the drive westwards, he ordered the Australians of 9th Division to switch their attack northward. What followed was a week of extremely fierce fighting, with the Australians grinding their way forward over well-defended enemy positions. As had happened in July, their gains so worried Rommel that he again diverted his strongest units to stop them. Places such as Thompson’s Post, the Fig Orchard, the Blockhouse and the Saucer became an inferno of fire and steel as the Australians weathered the storm of bombs, shells and bullets.
With Rommel’s attention firmly on the Australians in the north, naturally this left his line weakened further south, and on 2 November the British tanks struck a decisive blow there. The Panzerarmee had suffered crippling losses and Rommel was forced to order a general withdrawal, or face total annihilation. His army now began a headlong retreat that would soon see them ejected from Africa altogether.
Between July and November 1942, the Australian 9th Division suffered almost 5,500 casualties. Although the price was fearfully high, they had without doubt played a crucial role in ensuring an Allied victory in North Africa.
Craig Tibbitts is a senior historian at the Australian War Memorial, Initially he worked in the Research Centre where he was Senior Curator of Official and Private Records. During much of that time he was also in charge of administration and research for the Memorial’s Roll of Honour.
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This was excellent Woody. The quality of your guests and their presentations never ceases to amaze. I hope you pick up some more views with this deep dive into El Alamein.
Thanks Dean
Had to watch the recorded episode due to work requirements, but this was great! I Loved the maps depicting the battles of the 9th Australian during the period. Craig tells a good story along with those maps. The Aussies were a tough lot for anyone to come up against.
Another outstanding WW2TV show. I really appreciate learning about the important role the Australians played in North Africa.
I wish Craig had done more info on Morshead, for from what I can find out he seems to be a very remarkable character; unequalled in his command at a divisional level by anyone in the world I know of, defensively at least, but not at higher levels as he seemed to rely on personal discipline and supervision of his troops.
But his record seems remarkable, as a leuitenant I think he was the only commissioned office to survive the battle of Lone Pine at Gallipoli, the he fought at other key defensive battles in WW1, Amiens I think, then along with Katusov, the first to give the blitkrieg wizards, Rommel in his case, Guderian for Katukov, a real bloody nose in repelling the albeit "Blitkrieg light" attack on Tobruk, having his infantry let the tanks pass and killing the enemy infantry while the artillery dealt with the tanks in the ultimately classic style then leading the Tobruk garrison in aggressive defence; but that's about all I've gleaned about his career so more depth would have been welcome.
He's probably deserving of his own show
Woody/Craig, It was great to learn about El Alamein from the Australian point of view. I found the presentation to be very interesting! Thanks, Bob
Glad you enjoyed it!
Damn, pity I missed the live stream. The 9th Div is part of my bag and I am a great fan of Morshead.
Craigs, presentation was one of the best on WW2TV, actually one of the many top WW2TV presentations I’ve watched. This has opened up my knowledge of this hard fought campaign. Paul your UA-cam channel is one of the best around, not the same old WW2 stuff, but bringing up topics unknown to me. Thank you for all your hard work, I am so glad I’ve followed and supported you from the early days, a Patreon monthly contribution well spent. Thank you, keep up the fantastic work.
And thanks to you Kevin, one of the loyal Patrons
A brilliant topic. 9th Australian division looms large in even my fuzzy understanding of El Alamein. I'd like a private soldier's view of the battle. We have more than enough of generals.
These men were heroes and should be highlighted in the history taught at Australian schools.
These days, they don't teach this or anything positive about Australian history: particularly not Australia's military history. Instead, the young students are taught to be ashamed of the European "invasion" of this continent; the alleged "genocide" of the native Australians, and that we are a "racist society".
💪👊👊🇦🇺👌
80s kid here and Fairfield heights primary school Sydney you did term projects and you could choose, from a big list I did WW2 solar system, knights, Safari animals, big famous buiĺdings, all so much fun and good thing about you picked what you liked and these things stuck with me for life. And class mates were doing totally different things good memories Lol.
The 9th division was pivotal in winning at Alamein so securing the Sue’s canal. They were also pivotal in securing Finschhafen allowing clear passage for the Americans to take the Philippines
The 2/17 battalion was trained to be so bloody minded they never retreated, neither in Nth Africa, New Guinea or Borneo. My dad taught me to finish anything I started, to push through any difficulties and to do my best. When I retired my wife commented how persistent I was in my work as a builder giving everything I had until the job was done as my dad taught me.
Hi Woody, another really interesting episode. One major subject not covered to date at least as a subject in its own right is 'The Siege of Tobruk' and its strategic importance.
Yep, I will get to Tobruk as a subject eventually
My great uncle was killed in this action
Arthur Bauer
2/15 battalion, 20th brigade, 9th division, 2nd AIF, British 8th army.
Service number: QX574
Thanks for sharing
Wonderful show, Dr. Tibbitts. I learned a great deal and appreciate your work. Thanks, Woody--
Excellent presentation by Craig. Very interesting and I look forward to seeing Craig again. Learned a lot today
Loved this one. Quality keeps getting better 😀
Freyberg and Morsehead did not have any interaction prior to the July battles.During Operation Crusader-Tobrouk was held by 70th British Division. Only 1 Australian brigade was still in Tobrouk.
The New Zealand division attempted to relive Tobrouk and suffered heavy losses.
With respect to getting their own back.
The 51st Highland had to revenge St Varley .
True the 8th Army developed the specialty of the night attack from Alamein to Wadi Akarit.
The Australians faced the 90th Light Division and battle groups of 21st Panzer.
And the tank support, was provided by the 40 RTR and 46 RTR and 298 Anti Tank regiment. although outgunned they remained in support of the Australian infantry until the Germans were driven off.
Great job and thanks for covering the 9th Australian Division at Alamein.
Maybe the Australian invasion of Syria could be a good topic for the future !
Cheers!
I agree about St Valery
One thing I don't understand, the Americans had their bazooka before WW2, not sure when the British invented their PIAT, these would have been the ideal weapons for aggressive infantry to have in these battles against panzers, machine gun nests etc. Where were they?
Another really interesting presentation, and a different perspective. Really enjoyed Craig's talk!
Great presentation, again. Regarding Monty, while I understand he was an arsehole, I think his insight is underrated. I don't mean tactical stuff, I mean his understanding that - regardless of doctrine, politics and what was in the FSR - he had to win the battle with the army he had. So he (and his staff, and his trainers sent by London, and his senior commanders: 'he') set about developing a plan that his army could attempt, and trained them for that battle. It wasn't dashing or dynamic but (and this is usually missed by people making that critique) previous attempts at dashing and dynamic battles had ended in defeat. He needed to plan a battle he thought his army could actually fight, so he did, and so did the army.
The Anzacs were clearly superb soldiers,though I don't think the level of attrition can be compared to the WW1 Somme, for example where British lost 20,000 dead on Day One alone. The Aussies who were indeed so active from July-Nov during El Alamein, lost 1350 in the whole battle. Please don't get me wrong, the Anzacs were superb seemingly in this arena (and elsewhere).
@@harryhatter2962 I agree it's wrong to compare WW1 to the Alamein battle for losses. I only referred to it because the comparison was made in the commentary. The ANZACS were outstanding in this arena of North Africa, no doubt, though I am somewhat sceptical about such claims about % of land taken and % of losses inflicted. Every Country seems to come up with its own spin on figures. Also, look at all stats in making such sweeping conclusions - the ANZACS took on high casualty rates, does that make them less effective in such an assessment? Again, the Aussies were very good in North Africa, New Zealanders possibly creme de la creme so to speak. I'm not sure why, maybe the fact they were used to the stifling heat and also country boys working the land. And of course they were volunteers, always more enthusiastic than conscripts. British doctrine in WW2 was very cautious, reliant on an armoured and artillery battering and trying to combine infantry divisions with armoured, such as Guards Division that were converted to Armoured Division, in effect losing the best infantry division we had in the Grenadier and Coldstream Guards. Also, the best British troops were in the Paras or Commando units - 36,000 of them. Also, remember there were Brits at Tobruk during the siege as well, not just Aussies, and also British 70th Division replaced the Aussies and broke out of Tobruk and pushed the Germans back to the extent Rommel called off the attack altogether. British 7th Armoured Division were very highly rated by the Germans, so were 50th and 51st Infantry Divisions.
There was no such thing as ANZACS in WW2.
Was Rommels absence known by Ultra and then known by Montgomery?
Australians win every war and even won the Battle of The Little Big Horn. Australia is the best and many many many of them have told me this.
@@billyshane3804 Not quite true
Remember my mother telling me that when Monty visited Perth, Australia in the 1950s , he was given a heros welcome with crowds lining the streets etc. So still highly regarded back then.
Excellent material. Any chance for an episode on the Greek Brigade at El Alamein ?
It would all be down to finding a suitable expert
The Australians certainly played a pivotal role in the North African campaign.
love the Aussies ; a number of my family moved there .
Ah, the sound of cracking a cold one right at the end. For whatever reason, it made me laugh. Hope it was a good drink!
got up too late to catch it all live will catch up later,the dog woke me up at 3.30
Was Rommels absence known by Ultra and then known by Montgomery?
My grandfather was a sniper in the 9th
Have you got a video on the Silent Seventh?
No, not yet
As ever of great interest. I’ve always wondered how Montgomery got away with taking the time that Auchenlick was fired for by Churchill. And,if I understand this, Australia accepted McArthurs criticisms. Thank you as ever for your fine guests and their shared knowledge
Montgomery did not have Auchinlecks record of previous 18 months between December 1941 - August 1942 "Defeat , Defeat , More Defeat and Following Humiliating Defeat" (El Haseiat , Benghazi , Gazala , Tobruk , Mersa Matruh , Operation Bacon , Operation Manhood etc) and plus Monty had a very good superior General Harold Alexander as Meditrranean Theater Commander who had both ear and respect of Churchill , and British Chief of Staff Alan Brooke who was mentor of Monty so he protected him from Churchills interfarence
I am not criticizing Montgomery or Alexander. Both Montgomery and Auchenleck had similar early war experiences. Despite likely valid criticisms and evidently very severe personality clashes Auchenleck served well throughout the war and had done much to prepare success in the desert. His retention in high places denotes the recognition of his capabilities. My query remains
@@jonrettich-ff4gj "Both Montgomery and Auchenleck had similar early war experiences. "
I do not think so. Auchinleck had numerical and material quantity advantage just like Monty had during thei respective times in North African Campaign but Auchinleck contantly picked bad subordinates , unable to impose his authority on them (a fatal mistake on a general) , unable to see the rot and problems in tactics , orgnisation and doctrine of the army. Even worse he tried to run the operations all the way from Cairo dilluding army commanders authority on field when Eigth Army was in Libya thousands of miles away , interfaring and destroying army command initiartive. By the time his command ended in July 1942 , Auchinleck managed to create a severe confidence crisis in Eighth Army and his inability to reform and constantly listening bad advice due belonging Indian Army that was trained to fight in North West Frontier not in Africa against Germans.
Montgomery at the other hand imposed his will , fired bad subordinates and brought subordinates he could trust and accept his orders and fullfill them and never lost his authority. He also solely focused operations of army from close observation and running battles , not allowing any distraction and he did go a lot of ways to rectify the tactical and organisational flaws of Eighth Army in a few weeks while Auk was in North Africa over one year and led and army whose confidence was shaken with humiliating defeats and Panzer Army 60 miles away from Alexandria
Automatic subs at 17:53 quote Paul as saying "when Monty takes over from the Orc in August" :') Poor Auchinleck!
My grandfather George McAllan was there he was part of the 9th !
I think the Canadian Dieppe/Australian Tobruk comparison misses the mark a little inasmuch as the Canadians had resentment from suffering as part of a debacle whereas the Aussies resented that they had famously held Tobruk but other units (nationalities) had later lost it. Bias declared - I am an Aussie.
Good point
Agree 100%, the comparison irked me also as stated, the Australians held Tobruk and it was lost by those who relieved them. There was no revenge, it was standard Aussie fighting spirit.
Greece and Crete was all about securing the Greek merchant marine for the allies-British and Norwegian and polish shipping losses had been appalling at this stage-Churchill needed the ships until the American industrial might kicked in
will you interview an Italian historian/witness too?
Of course, I am always looking for historians from Europe
Excellent presentation-one point he hasn't emphasized is the importance of the officer training and schools in Jaffa and Haifa in what is today Israeli. The Australians were impressed with the staff training available but it wasn't reciprocated-Morshead should have been promoted to corps command-he was clearly one of the best officers in the 8th army after his handling of the Tobruk siege and wasn't promoted because he wasn't a professional- a sore point with australians
Australian 9th Division the greatest Australian formation of them all.
Yes and they were wasted in SE Asia.
I worked with a "Rat of Tobruk" in the 1970s
Is there any German memorials outside of Germany other than north Africa?
Not many
My Australian Grandfather a Sgt in the 2/9th .Was seriously wounded in the nearly crucial Nazi breakthrough in April 1941. Now only 82 later Australia has been raped of its once immense resources and put into Trillions of unpayable Dollars Debt . Within a seriously declining Natural environment and social system .
All courtesy of our idiotic "leaders".
Where I can find British losses in desert, especially month by month?
I don't know sorry
Interesting that losses is clearly a massive deal for you. You are often contributing figures in comments here. That's not a criticism, but for me, losses will continue to be hard to pin down precisely
Why is first Alamein so poorly covered compared to Alam el halfa and 3rd Alamein-because Auchinleck gets sacked ? The tactics used in this battle were superlative-yes he had prepared positions and ridges but he stopped the unstoppable Rommel using effective tactics after the 8th army had nearly disintegrated
Montgomery was critised alot, and critised back alot. Who could have replaced him at that time? not many if any.
5th Indian Div I think.
Well there were several, but i was referring to the 4th commanded by General Tuker
Aren't these the Guys that ran away like little girls?
Your comment is pathetic. Your evidence?
Maori 1st & foremost, We stand before God