I think this demonstrates that 1.5 inch thick panels are stiffer than 0.75 inch thick panels, and that the glue provides a good bond between the two panels. However, I'm not sure that it proves too much concerning joists and subflooring. Maybe you could build two small models of a subflooring panel and two joists, one with glue and one with only nails or screws. Then see which has the higher deflection for a given force, say by twisting the joists in opposite directions. Or twist them to failure and see which has the higher failure strength. I'm not doubting your conclusion, I just wonder if there might be a better way to demonstrate it. Squeaking seems to me to be a problem caused by repeated small loads over time, or differences in thermal expansion and contraction. I imagine testing this would be more involved.
Agreed. I feel the same way about the tests where he pulled the subfloor off the joist to test the strength of the glue. The real test of a subfloor adhesive would be how long does it last before breaking down and allowing squeaks.
I've found many squeaks aren't the subfloor, its the span and fastener. I won't libel the poor, shoddy townhome builders that did Bucks County PA in the 80's, but they spanned joists for floors over 20" and then used 3" nails, over 9" apart. Guess they were conserving to squeak out one free unit per three built ;) Per remodeler, we pulled up all carpet, then all nails and then new GRK screws, not one floor squeaked. BTW, code in PA was late for ceiling (rock). Rockers nailed all ceilings without any adhesive. You get bouncey on a subfloor above, and those lower ceilings popped and dropped. (and that, kids, is why codes follow after lawsuits)
What caught my attention was the framing, All the wood boards are cut correctly, no visible gaps In the framing. My son-in-law purchased an almost million dollars home in Southern California, What I noticed was the wood measurements were made by eyeball NO tape measure on the work site! Unfortunately, that's typical quicken & nasty, the job always goes to the lowest bidder. Matt, do you make sure your new carpenters can read a tape measure?
Great demonstration. If just screws are used to secure subfloor to the joist there is still movement between the sheeting and joist (longitudinally and very minor) that can make noise. This will happen with sheetrock to the bottom of floor joist too, making a crackling noise. As a homebuilder I always use glue on subfloors and the differance in performance years down the road is night and day vs. a floor that is not glued regardless of the type of fasteners that are used.
Do people usually put down 2 layers of subfloor and glue them together? I thought the rule for advantech was if you go 16 oc it requires 3/4 and 7/8th for 24 oc - so it should be 48 OC = questionable framing.
Doubling up your subfloor with glue between layers would create a lot less movement. Using LVL's as subflooring will definitely stop those squeaks too. From my limited experience in putting down subflooring, glue and staples work well together. The demo you created doesn't demonstrate what you are trying to demonstrate. It's deceptive.
Not following here. This seems like more of a physics problem, not a glue "problem". Instead of gluing the sheets together, why don't you screw them together? If you have 2 "loose" sheets on top of one another, you're going to get more deflection just from the shear fact, see what I did there? that these two pieces aren't attached and are sliding a little over each other. Adding the glue, or anything for that matter that secures these two pieces together should net the same result?? Are my physics off?
Not only that, but the glue is done perpendicular to the floor joists, so it's almost like having a 2x4 support going from floor joist to floor joist. But that is not the suggested application of glue that he states at the end of the video. "Glue your floor to the joists". Might as well just put more screws in from floor to joists like you said!
@@digitalconsciousness Exactly! You only have 1.5" or .75" inches over the joist so I was curious to see if glue made any real difference with that small of a surface area, then he ends up doing this completely useless test for a product that happens to be of a sponsor's product... I just did some roof sheathing and adding more nails made a big difference in the rigidity of the sheathing, I'd count on screwing down sub floors over some gimmicky glue product with a 10 year warranty any day.
Matt, your videos are always great to watch and very informative, but this one is the exception. This demonstration has no practical relevance to the mechanical interaction between sheathing and joists. Even a substandard subfloor adhesive would show similar results in this test, which is nothing more than demonstrating the strength difference between a single inch and a half thick board versus two individual three-quarter inch boards. Sorry for the bummer of a comment but you had to see this one coming!
Actually, I have seen this practice to be beneficial when used on I-joists with greater deflection. It makes a huge difference in floor squeaks in that particular context.
I've been recommending using Advantech subfloor for several years, but for a different reason than usual. Not only is it more resistant to water damage than other products, polyester and epoxy resins adhere well to the surface with less preparation. This is a critical concern when specifying for exterior decks that are to receive a layer of liquid applied fiberglass laminate.
I follow your series Matt and I’m generally a fan but this video makes an assumption that we are going to use 2 layers of flooring, most don’t and the squeak comes from the movement between the flooring and the joist. Good glue bonding achieved by clean dry substrates and sufficient mechanical fastening should always result in a strong squeak free floor..that advantech glue though looks good and the expanding and elastic qualities would be ideal
Hi Matt, I have a question you might can help me with - I am in Houston on a block & base shotgun with 2x10 floor joists. Any feedback on how to lay Advantech 7/8 properly on top of the 2X10, while keeping the 1/8th gap ? I have never redone a subfloor before. Just a DYI'r. Love your videos - Thank You
We have this HUBER "Advantech" subfloor in our house and it pops like a pan of jiffy-pop when you walk across it.. so 10 years and you need to replace your floor to keep it quiet??
I have an existing 1x6 plank subfloor that the GC said he will add another 3/4" OSB subfloor over since it is in good condition. How would a subfloor adhesive be used in this situation since there is no joist to apply the glue to?
Can you use this on the outer bottom edge of the Zip board to cement slab instead of Huber flashing in the tube and the bottom before siding is installed
Matt was showing how well a good glue will bond two materials together. He was not saying to use two layers of 3/4 sub floor. By using the advantec glue to install your sub floor this video demonstrates that there will be no movement once glue has cured
If that is what he was doing the video is particularly pointless. It is well known that two boards attached together like this is going to make the pair stiffer than not attaching them. The issue might be is one method of attachment better than some other method? But this video provides no information about that. It also doesn't provide any information about how this demonstration relates to the attachment of the sub floor panels to the joists.which is the issue that this video was presumably about. I've watched quite a few of Risinger's videos. I've thought most of them were pretty good. This one was just crap. Given how many videos he has produced it isn't so bad to have a dud every now and then. There was the possibility for an informative video here. There are a lot of issues associated with installing sub floors. An objective overview of those issues would have been interesting.
Except he has a massive surface area, unlike when the subfloor goes over a joist, or half joist at joints, which is why he did this completely useless and misleading test which just so happens to be for a sponsor's product. This is why we need channels like Project Farm to test stuff, so people don't get fooled by advertisements pretending to be actual tests.
I was about to have this done on my bathroom subfloor, but then I saw on Huber’s website, but it says not to glue the two layers together. I also just read in the TCNA reference manual that you are not to glue the underlayment to the subfloor if you’re installing tile.
How common is it to do 2 layers of 3/4” subfloor? I remember when I was in highschool we built a pretty nice house in the “Student Built House” program and only used 1 layer of 3/4” but we glued all the sheets down to the floor joist.
Not sure what your trying to prove here? You basically turned 2 sheets of 3/4 into a solid piece of 1 1/2. This essentially proves that you get less deflection from thicker substrate.
C'mon, this is a test steeped in BS. You claim that there is less chance of squeaks if the subfloor material is glued and screwed to the joists (which I know is true), but you demonstrate it by showing the stiffness of 2 panels glued together, bridging 2 boards, 4' apart. Why the heck don't you demonstrate it by comparing the sound and deflection of subfloor material fastened to properly spaced joists, one screwed only, the other glued and screwed. Just say no to BS. Please.
I usually like your tests but this was terrible. Of course when it's a sponsored product we get a demonstration that proves glue glues things together... Nail the subfloor between joists with glue on one top of the joists, as this is supposed to be applied, then in the other section don't use glue. Don't glue/laminate 2 sheets of subfloor together, that shows nothing.
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I think this demonstrates that 1.5 inch thick panels are stiffer than 0.75 inch thick panels, and that the glue provides a good bond between the two panels.
However, I'm not sure that it proves too much concerning joists and subflooring. Maybe you could build two small models of a subflooring panel and two joists, one with glue and one with only nails or screws. Then see which has the higher deflection for a given force, say by twisting the joists in opposite directions. Or twist them to failure and see which has the higher failure strength.
I'm not doubting your conclusion, I just wonder if there might be a better way to demonstrate it.
Squeaking seems to me to be a problem caused by repeated small loads over time, or differences in thermal expansion and contraction. I imagine testing this would be more involved.
Agreed. I feel the same way about the tests where he pulled the subfloor off the joist to test the strength of the glue. The real test of a subfloor adhesive would be how long does it last before breaking down and allowing squeaks.
I've found many squeaks aren't the subfloor, its the span and fastener. I won't libel the poor, shoddy townhome builders that did Bucks County PA in the 80's, but they spanned joists for floors over 20" and then used 3" nails, over 9" apart. Guess they were conserving to squeak out one free unit per three built ;)
Per remodeler, we pulled up all carpet, then all nails and then new GRK screws, not one floor squeaked. BTW, code in PA was late for ceiling (rock). Rockers nailed all ceilings without any adhesive. You get bouncey on a subfloor above, and those lower ceilings popped and dropped.
(and that, kids, is why codes follow after lawsuits)
Seems my parents owned one of those townhomes, we added additional beams in the basement for support.
Similar thoughts here. Also, I've been told that the subfloor needs to flex so that the hardwood doesn't buckle.
@@jordanward480 10 year warranty, so you know your best case scenario already, because 10 years is soooooo long for a house...
What caught my attention was the framing, All the wood boards are cut correctly, no visible gaps In the framing. My son-in-law purchased an almost million dollars home in Southern California, What I noticed was the wood measurements were made by eyeball NO tape measure on the work site! Unfortunately, that's typical quicken & nasty, the job always goes to the lowest bidder.
Matt, do you make sure your new carpenters can read a tape measure?
Great demonstration. If just screws are used to secure subfloor to the joist there is still movement between the sheeting and joist (longitudinally and very minor) that can make noise. This will happen with sheetrock to the bottom of floor joist too, making a crackling noise. As a homebuilder I always use glue on subfloors and the differance in performance years down the road is night and day vs. a floor that is not glued regardless of the type of fasteners that are used.
Do people usually put down 2 layers of subfloor and glue them together? I thought the rule for advantech was if you go 16 oc it requires 3/4 and 7/8th for 24 oc - so it should be 48 OC = questionable framing.
Doubling up your subfloor with glue between layers would create a lot less movement. Using LVL's as subflooring will definitely stop those squeaks too. From my limited experience in putting down subflooring, glue and staples work well together. The demo you created doesn't demonstrate what you are trying to demonstrate. It's deceptive.
Not following here. This seems like more of a physics problem, not a glue "problem". Instead of gluing the sheets together, why don't you screw them together? If you have 2 "loose" sheets on top of one another, you're going to get more deflection just from the shear fact, see what I did there? that these two pieces aren't attached and are sliding a little over each other. Adding the glue, or anything for that matter that secures these two pieces together should net the same result?? Are my physics off?
Not only that, but the glue is done perpendicular to the floor joists, so it's almost like having a 2x4 support going from floor joist to floor joist. But that is not the suggested application of glue that he states at the end of the video. "Glue your floor to the joists". Might as well just put more screws in from floor to joists like you said!
@@digitalconsciousness Exactly! You only have 1.5" or .75" inches over the joist so I was curious to see if glue made any real difference with that small of a surface area, then he ends up doing this completely useless test for a product that happens to be of a sponsor's product... I just did some roof sheathing and adding more nails made a big difference in the rigidity of the sheathing, I'd count on screwing down sub floors over some gimmicky glue product with a 10 year warranty any day.
Matt, your videos are always great to watch and very informative, but this one is the exception.
This demonstration has no practical relevance to the mechanical interaction between sheathing and joists. Even a substandard subfloor adhesive would show similar results in this test, which is nothing more than demonstrating the strength difference between a single inch and a half thick board versus two individual three-quarter inch boards.
Sorry for the bummer of a comment but you had to see this one coming!
Actually, I have seen this practice to be beneficial when used on I-joists with greater deflection. It makes a huge difference in floor squeaks in that particular context.
Hey! Looks like FHB picked you all up...good story in latest issue... its Like the FHB with Matt Risinger :)
I've been recommending using Advantech subfloor for several years, but for a different reason than usual. Not only is it more resistant to water damage than other products, polyester and epoxy resins adhere well to the surface with less preparation. This is a critical concern when specifying for exterior decks that are to receive a layer of liquid applied fiberglass laminate.
I follow your series Matt and I’m generally a fan but this video makes an assumption that we are going to use 2 layers of flooring, most don’t and the squeak comes from the movement between the flooring and the joist. Good glue bonding achieved by clean dry substrates and sufficient mechanical fastening should always result in a strong squeak free floor..that advantech glue though looks good and the expanding and elastic qualities would be ideal
Hi Matt,
I have a question you might can help me with - I am in Houston on a block & base shotgun with 2x10 floor joists. Any feedback on how to lay Advantech 7/8 properly on top of the 2X10, while keeping the 1/8th gap ? I have never redone a subfloor before. Just a DYI'r. Love your videos - Thank You
We have this HUBER "Advantech" subfloor in our house and it pops like a pan of jiffy-pop when you walk across it.. so 10 years and you need to replace your floor to keep it quiet??
Looks more like an ad than anything else.
Mister Hat his whole channel is one big ad.
Why? Just because it's a sponsored product and this test is completely irrelevant?
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 Pretty much. Sponsored "tests" mean nothing.
@@misterhat5823 Agreed, especially when they don't even try to demonstrate the actual application.
I have an existing 1x6 plank subfloor that the GC said he will add another 3/4" OSB subfloor over since it is in good condition. How would a subfloor adhesive be used in this situation since there is no joist to apply the glue to?
How does JBWeld and 3M VHB tape fare in this?
Can you use this on the outer bottom edge of the Zip board to cement slab instead of Huber flashing in the tube and the bottom before siding is installed
Matt was showing how well a good glue will bond two materials together. He was not saying to use two layers of 3/4 sub floor. By using the advantec glue to install your sub floor this video demonstrates that there will be no movement once glue has cured
If that is what he was doing the video is particularly pointless. It is well known that two boards attached together like this is going to make the pair stiffer than not attaching them. The issue might be is one method of attachment better than some other method? But this video provides no information about that. It also doesn't provide any information about how this demonstration relates to the attachment of the sub floor panels to the joists.which is the issue that this video was presumably about.
I've watched quite a few of Risinger's videos. I've thought most of them were pretty good. This one was just crap. Given how many videos he has produced it isn't so bad to have a dud every now and then. There was the possibility for an informative video here. There are a lot of issues associated with installing sub floors. An objective overview of those issues would have been interesting.
Except he has a massive surface area, unlike when the subfloor goes over a joist, or half joist at joints, which is why he did this completely useless and misleading test which just so happens to be for a sponsor's product. This is why we need channels like Project Farm to test stuff, so people don't get fooled by advertisements pretending to be actual tests.
@@davefoc Yup he makes a lot of good content but he mixes in a lot of straight up shill videos like this that completely ruin his credibility.
I was about to have this done on my bathroom subfloor, but then I saw on Huber’s website, but it says not to glue the two layers together. I also just read in the TCNA reference manual that you are not to glue the underlayment to the subfloor if you’re installing tile.
Very good demo. I only wish I knew about this when I screwed down my upstairs subfloor.
Good video Matt.
How common is it to do 2 layers of 3/4” subfloor? I remember when I was in highschool we built a pretty nice house in the “Student Built House” program and only used 1 layer of 3/4” but we glued all the sheets down to the floor joist.
Hi Matt, is the hybrid polymer sealant and glue the same product?
Very impressive!
Not sure what your trying to prove here? You basically turned 2 sheets of 3/4 into a solid piece of 1 1/2. This essentially proves that you get less deflection from thicker substrate.
C'mon, this is a test steeped in BS. You claim that there is less chance of squeaks if the subfloor material is glued and screwed to the joists (which I know is true), but you demonstrate it by showing the stiffness of 2 panels glued together, bridging 2 boards, 4' apart. Why the heck don't you demonstrate it by comparing the sound and deflection of subfloor material fastened to properly spaced joists, one screwed only, the other glued and screwed. Just say no to BS. Please.
Very impressive Matt. Thanks for the video. Is this product, as well as the subfloor, available on the west coast of Canada?
Is that lvl studs?
.I have decking broads can i use this over it
NO GLUE! what happens when what you’re making starts to expand and contract!?!
Is the music there to punish those of us who wear headphones? Ouch!
Matt would you use the same glue to air seal your bottom plates?
Composite Action in action!
Damnit now I want to tear up some of my carpets
I'm guessing it's poly glue.
Well, duh. This is like saying a sheet of plywood is stronger than the thin strips of wood it is made from. Of course it is.
Can't trust a man that uses Milwaukee driver bits. 🤣
I usually like your tests but this was terrible. Of course when it's a sponsored product we get a demonstration that proves glue glues things together... Nail the subfloor between joists with glue on one top of the joists, as this is supposed to be applied, then in the other section don't use glue. Don't glue/laminate 2 sheets of subfloor together, that shows nothing.
many of your demos are not realistic.
screws are longterm - glue is short term....? This test proves nothing.