Can atheists have mystical experiences? | Ariane Moore | TEDxHobart
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Connection to the natural environment can cause completely secular mystical experiences. Profound and often life-changing, it's time such experiences were legitimised. Ari Moore is a PhD candidate in philosophy at the University of Tasmania. Growing up in Cairns in Far North Queensland, she spent almost a decade in Melbourne and studied philosophy at Deakin University before moving further south to Hobart. Her research falls between philosophy of religion and atheism studies. While traditionally atheism studies have attempted to disprove the truth of religion, Ari is indifferent to this goal. Rather, her interests lie in exploring the philosophically fascinating intersection between the experience and behaviour of those who do and do not believe. Her PhD thesis aims to provide an account of how the natural environment is not only a unique source of wonder and awe but also holds immense value as the potential source of legitimate secular mystical experiences. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
I am atheist, born and raised this way and had similar experience but I wouldn't describe it as mystical. I was teenager as well on a motorcycle trip out west from Chicago with my parents. We were camped out in the high plateau in New Mexico after coming down from red river ski valley into the plateau with the Rio Grande river running through . It was late evening and I was walking in the desert and looked up and seen the most stars I had ever seen in my life. It was the milky way from horizon to horizon as clear as can be and I froze in place and stared. I could see the rotation of the Earth, and I could visualize our place in the spiral arm and see the spiral arm of the milky way and i could visualize the entire galaxy and at moment I felt an incredible understanding and it was existential experience. It was quite striking in that living my whole life outside of Chicago never seeing more than a few stars I was shocked at the sight in the desert far away from any city lights.
Our (atheistic, naturalistic) religious path uses ritual to cultivate these experiences. Techniques and skills can make them easier to attain. And nature--reverence for the Earth and Cosmos--is central to all of it.
DMT says yes
If, as many have expressed, a mystical experience sets in motion, a passion, energized by desire, for further exploration of self-awareness and curiosity of an ecological interconnectedness for growth (expansion) then why does it matter (ultimately) what modality (or belief system) the mystical experiences come from? Are we seeking to prove the "right" origins of a mystical experience or might we benefit individually and collectedly if we foster and nurture those experiences (regardless of modality or system)?
This is the atheists blind spot, they contend with straw men interpretations of a religion. That it’s some sort of scientific proposal, they believe the contradictions disprove the beliefs systems instead of understanding the need for belief in the human psyche and that it takes the form of cultural expression, the hardcore militant atheist fails to realize that they are simplistically attempting to trivialize their own existence. This very same person when pressed into a situation that gets will act out what they believe,they will pray to this thing we call god.
I am sure that one, - in command of/ the source of - such mysticism would be more than capable of revealing absolutely whatever to whomever, whenever.
Divinity is an extremely vague word. It can mean anything to anybody. It could be the deepest aspect of reality, to even a higher projection of yourself.
Human beings can have a neuropsychiatric experience in the region of the brain which has been credited with these experiences. But I fail to see the value or necessity of using nebulous and frankly silly language like "mystical experience" or "spirituality" for it.
Is there really any reason we can't describe this phenomenon scientifically? I don't think so
Rudolf Otto is worth reading on the subject
How would I know if I was having mystical experience, how would I know it?
The neurological description would be a unification of both hemispheres that are separated in every day life, this brings the finite into the infinite, it mimics a great stress response and the subsequent state of plasticity in the brain which is essentially radical learning and adaptation. You will suddenly realize that all matter is energy condensed into slower vibrations and that we are all 1 consciousness experiencing ITSELF subjectively. Once you see it you will never not see it and there’s no mistaking it. Beware of unearned wisdom. The journey ends with the discovery of yourSELF. The self you are before you were born, who you really are.
You'll know when you don't feel like you have to ask this question again.
Could people who have mystical experiences be conducive to ill mental health.
Potentially. Inner well being is about emotional set points, useful and accurate self-concepts, Intuitive resonance and instinctual inclusion. Any of these can be distorted, exaggerated, and eliminated, in painful ways that we call mental illness. Mystical Experience (M.E.) is the temporary suspension of all of this to allow maximum sensory richness, existential substance, and any ineffable, intangible qualities of life through into consciousness. This can have a profound effect on our inner well being, or sense-of-self set points, but it is not the same thing. It's more about what comes before all this, and is the unseen foundation for self-knowledge.
If there were emotional wounds (painfully distorted set points) before M.E. there will be wounds after, but the relationship changes from one of enmeshment with these self-reflections to one of intimacy with them as meaningful constructions. So more distance and quicker realizations about what's going on can happen when getting triggered and highjacked by out-of-control emotions. It is likely that the coping mechanisms suppressing these wounds will be much harder to cover up and issues will be more readily brought forward, but there is also more capacity to deal with them. In fact, it could be that their painful effect could have helped cause the M.E. in the first place; such as emotional neglect creating a very weak ego structure that collapses under little stress.
There is commonly what's called a spiritual emergency that happens in the integration phase of a M.E. that looks a lot like mental illness, the difference is that people with M.E.'s will resolve them and come out much healthier, resilient and joyful than who they were before, ever. Normal people are lucky to get back to baseline many times if they have a breakdown, but it's risky to generalize too much. Shamans-to-be are known to have their initiatory phase erupt by going crazy a little. Like involuntarily howling at the sky for days and the like, but then they open their unconscious minds and gain intuitive powers to read peoples hearts and help resolve mental illnesses in the tribe in the end.
Some people have no issue though. No pain, no mental illness symptoms, just an expansion to infinite, maximization of contentment and an intrinsic sense-of-self that is now seamlessly a stream in the flow of nature itself and beyond. These people likely had healthy enough emotional set points where consciousness could disentangle without setting off a mine field of painful memories stored to alert the person if they were ever in danger again. These seem to be asking the question to us: do you really want to let me go, remember how this happened? If we can stay calm and greet them with peace, they get the message and submit themselves to be reset and reconditioned, which is what healing is. This is an entirely different but overlapping process to waking up, which is to reconnect with the ground of being and potentials in which the content of consciousness arise from.
Overall, there is a substantial and growing body of evidence to show that the occurrence of mystical experiences is associated with positive mental health outcomes in both healthy and clinical populations. There can be some potential issues such as a small risk of a spiritual emergency, where an intense and abrupt transformation can leave little time for understanding, interpretation or adaptation, although these can, in turn, be associated with the potential for transformative and therapeutic effects.
As a Christian this was really interesting insight into the philosophical tensions within atheism. I’m wondering what an atheist would make of chapters 38-40 in the book of Job 🤔
That any deity who would torture people just to prove a point is thoroughly unworthy of worship, even if he spouts lovely poetry afterwards...?
Funny how our lives are complete opposite of each other. You going from witchcraft and paganism to christianity. And I go from christianity to placebo witchcraft and atheopaganism 😅
@@MorriganJade that is kinda funny 😅
@@nicoleyoungman1457 I’m assuming you read the first few chapters as well, so you probably know that God did not torture anyone, but he did give Satan permission to find proof of the accusations he was making about Job.
As it said in the text: do we have the omniscience and omnipresence of God to presume that we can judge the decisions of our maker? That seems like hubris.
Maybe you haven’t had the benefit of going through a terrible disease like I did and discovering later that it spared me from having children with an abuser.
@@nicoleyoungman1457 What would serenity be without the concept of torture? What is light without darkness? Who creates torture? And who has the power to stop it? It’s YOU
My brother in humanity, I am sending you this message... God is waiting for you to follow the path of guidance and He loves goodness for you... What do you think about sailing on a journey of searching for God, the Great Creator who created this beautiful universe... If you want to know God, read about the Islamic religion God command
There’s two ways to see reality, one way is to see yourself as a mistake, or you can see yourself as a miracle, these are the essential distinctions, and from that you can conclude that either what you do matters, or you can conclude that what you do is meaningless. Meaninglessness is a preference for most people because it lets them off the hook 🪝
@@MorganHyde-ie5ru Which do you prefer? That everything you do matters? Or nothing you do matters?
I mean, clearly, that's not true, or most of human history would be non religious, and it isn't. we have a concept of gods dating back to Recorded history.
So I guess what I'm saying is I reject the premise of your argument on historical grounds.
@@Emma-Queenofhell Your “god” = your aim
@Earthad23 I also have to reject that as that as that makes the term god meaningless Goals and values ≠ god they are different things.