Not to mention, that's a lot of sprites made in the 90s, for every angle. Even with a limited moveset, that's about 20 characters with about 9 angles (and 2 movesets, technically)
SNK just managed to reach good playability on for this series from Real Bout on. 94 to 98 was great time for fighting game hardcores, so much things going on
I think this video underplays the significance of stage length. The overall size of a stage can have an effect on how the game is played to an extreme degree. As an example, KOF has relatively small stages, a couple backdashes is usually all it takes to get there. This results in losses of stage control being both extremely important and more fluid with how quickly a situation can change. It encourages players to remain offensive and stand their ground rather than completely avoid interactions since the corner is almost always just off screen
he is also ignoring, all be it deliberate or not, the fact that in RBFF ring outs were a gross exploit of the game and really ruined the experience of 90% of the matches had in that game.. it never belonged there or ANY 2d fighter....
I think he didn't focus on that because varying lengths is something more standardized and experimented with. I wouldn't be shocked if he did a video on that topic, this just wasnt that
Surprised you didn't mention Fatal Fury Special, where the stages are even more variable. Axel Hawk's stage is a boxing ring with electrified ropes, so being knocked into the corner hurts you, Jubei's stage has breakable panes in front of the background so you can hide in the back lane, and Mai's stage gives her more moves (think Vega but on crack).
Yo, that mechanic that SNK added about 3 positions to be able to scape the corner or the fact of going out of the scenario are pretty dam cool moves! I loved the video man, keep it up.
Although it is not quite different from just a rectangle stage, the stages in Galaxy Fight and Shuma-Goraths stage in Marvel Super heroes actually have no walls at all so they scroll forever. But those are the only examples of 2D stages that aren't traditional.
Oh yes! Galaxy Fight is a game I played ages ago, it feels largely unexplored so it's hard to research but in the future after i've grinded it a bit, I'm going to be talking about it for sure.
There are some Clayfighter 63.3333 stages that infinitely scroll but they have pseudo-3D backgrounds as well and the characters can shift themselves so that they align with wall breaks into new scenes.
Fatal Fury Special and Real Bout Special were godlike. SNK has always pushed innovation. Running instead of dashing, roll canceling, the TOP system from Garou (was super fucking cool), the lane system, the first true super moves (Art of Fighting), presentation of character select screens (Fatal Fury 3), music, and even the type of fighting game as a whole (3v3 fighters, lane fighters, etc) Plus check out the graphics on Garou (Mark of the Wolves) and KOF13.
@@GokuInfintysaiyan You can also crouch walk in several of the Fatal Fury titles allowing a character with a down charge to slowly inch forward without losing their anti-air and allowing characters to adjust slightly into poke range while ducking under a move. Another fantastic thing they tried was the Speed and Power selection in Last Blade and the Slash and Burst selection in some of the Samurai Shodown games giving you vastly different characters to play branching from the same base character.
u mean ring outs in a 2d fighter?? NO!!! Nobody wants that back except for you and apparently the poster of this vid.. thank GOD u2 are in the extreme minority for that
@@TetsuDeinonychus it was an EXTREME Turn off for me and most ppl i know experience since its something that is totally abused and makes the match not fun at all
@@billybadass3056 I think it's just a "different strokes for different folks" thing, and for me it's something I have to be in the mood for (which is why they'll be something that can be turned on or off before the match in my project).
I remember when in Marvel Super Heroes, Shuma Gorath's Stage blew my mind by being able to loop throug the stage once you break the wall, of course years later I would discover the stage was incredibly unfair while fighting against projectile zoners.
Ah, Blue Mary, such a staple of the 90s. You will never find a character design and name combo in any other era but the 90s. SNK's tastes have really became synonymous with 90s culture.
It's unrelated to the video but If you all are a fan of the lane feature, check out Guardian Hero's. It's one of the more unique 2d beat em ups out there. Plus you can play it with up to 16 people in a huge battle royale. It's a dope game that didnt get much recognition sadly.
I do wish more 2D fighters experimented with unique stage mechanics. Growing up with Soul Calibur and Smash, I ended up liking the idea that the stage itself could change how I approach the match. As Smash's meta evolves through its various games, it seems the general consensus has moved to fewer stage objects in general, moving things in line with other 2D fighters (and this isn't only a thing with newer Smash games, competitive 64 only has one tournament legal stage and I've seen many matches where both players wait out certain stage transformations on Pokemon Stadium in Melee). In some sense you could consider it to be one extra factor in what makes 2D and 3D fighters different, since the lanes in this game you're describing do remind me of side-stepping in Tekken.
One on hand a little bit of interactivity would be nice. On the other hand I wouldn't want the stages to interfere with the fighting too much (as often happens in Smash Bros).
@@TetsuDeinonychus When it comes to a game like Smash Ultimate which has a little over 100 stages, I'd hope that there'd be room for both. Especially with the option to turn hazards off, the more wild stages could be standardized at the player's choice. Even so, I feel like there's been a deliberate effort to have more simple stage designs and mechanics in Ultimate's new stages as compared to previous Smash games. In Smash 4, you had new stages like Kalos Pokemon League, Mushroom Kingdom U, The Great Cave Offensive, and Midgar with prominent hazards or transformations. In Ultimate, the stage with the most prominent hazards of the new ones is probably Mementos, which I do like but still feel isn't as creative as some of the previous ones. None of this is to say that it's a bad thing, competitive players do appreciate having a wider variety of balanced stages to play on and I'm sure it's easier for casual players as well to get the hang of things without having to battle the terrain as well. Consider this as nothing more than the ramblings of someone who hasn't quite gotten what they want yet (and probably shouldn't).
Really, really cool ways to make 2d stages unique are to: A. Create objects that fighters can interact with that instead of doing damage have a delayed effect on the stage itself, a.k.a. pulling a lever or pressing a button to alter the stage or create a small hazard in some way. B. Make it to where certain parts of the stage box in the fighter, keeping them from throwing out certain moves that involve bumping into their surroundings like big roundhouses/spinning haymakers, horizontal slashes and command grabs. C. Involve something fighters can hang onto and jump from,, like vines or walls. Obviously their attacks would be extremely limited until they decide to jump off, but this could be a tool that could really fake out boxers/projectile spammers. D. Involve beasts that when hit with a whiffed attack will retreat and then later from the background try and pounce on the fighter that attacked it. E. Involve moving floors at times. The trick is to not design around anything like aerial platforms, extra projectiles or otherwise immediate damage or complete inhibition, but to think outside of those boxes and make the benefits more minute - trust me, fighting game players will use every tool to their fullest and will have fun both using them well and getting stuffed trying to use them. Game companies are so lazy for not trying anything like this out whatsoever!
Very cool! The concept of fighting for the center of stage reminds me of Smash a ton, even if that gets carried off into the “other” group fairly often. Smash’s lead director loves this series, perhaps he took some of the feeling of fighting for center from this game.
The first World Heroes game (SNK as well? At least they had the rights) had either normal matches or 'Death match' mode. Of the eight stages, three had wall hazards (fire ringropes, electric ringropes, or wall spikes), three were the same but with oil, one was just the oil, and the last was lame (the 'hazard' was the loser's portrait would be shaved bald). Second had similar things. Then they took them out.
Yeah, stage play is something most games now are pretty timid to try out it seems. Real Bout's lane system is fun too. I've been playing with stage concepts a bit with a thing I'm makin. There's also a project I'll be jumping off called Unreal Fighter 2D and the guy makin it is adding a TON of stage interaction options to the template and after some chats, he told me he also plans to add in lane support. Along with beat'em up elements. I'm hyped to throw my work into that engine.
Amazing video! I saw a lot of comments talking about the games he left mentioning, and nobody talks about Dead or Alive!! I know it’s 3D but it’s one of the fighting game sagas that pushed the stages/environments further. Not even mentioning Dead or Alive in a video that talks about stages in fighting games shows how underrated the saga is. I know this video was focused in 2D but I think that should have deserved honorable mention at least haha, and again, very cool video!
I like the idea of being knocked offstage. Fatal Fury can innovate by designating certain corner areas that can be passed through. Maybe have a steel crate on the side of the stage. In order to ring someone out, you have to knock your opponent over the crate.
You know as far as the corner goes I really like the option to roll out past your opponent in some versions of KoF and anime fighting games like persona 4 arena. I think it really adds one extra layer of depth while still being very punishable if your opponent reacts to it. And it can be used as a mind game tool too. Certain moves will vacuum your opponent out of the corner and you can use a roll after creating pressure on block or something to cross them up if they're too preoccupied with holding your mix. Also persona has a paralysis status effect on some moves which makes it impossible to move left or right but you can still roll toward your opponent so having the mechanic enables more of these tricky styles of play while still being balanced.
1 random idea i had, was what if you had the option to change the direction of the gravity affecting your character? So suddenly, the left and right walls, which slide back as you move left and right, suddenly get fixed in place, and your character can now move up and down the same way you were originally moving left and right. Instead of pressing 6 to do a forward attack, you'd have to press 2, and jumping would then move you left or right instead of up. (Or maybe the inputs remain the same, but like, hitting 6-B results in an attack going downward instead of rightward.) Characters could have unique weight classes that affect not just how short their normal jumps are, but how much damage they'll do when they land on you if they drop from the top of the screen due to gravity. You could have lighter characters which have a slow decent, which allows for them to effectively play from the middle of the screen instead of on any specific wall. You could combo gravitational inputs in the middle of combat to shift your character's attack animations to hit from a new angle due to everyone's attacks having a fixed angle, but an angle that is dependent on it's center of gravity. You could do a Jump-Attack, and midway through the arc of your jump, you shift your gravity so your attack makes a sweeping arc. Maybe you do this to alter the trajectory of your attack, or maybe you do this to dodge your opponent's anti-air without using a double-jump.
I, for the longest time, have wanted a traditional 2D fighter with a smash like stage layout. I really don't think it's that unreasonable and the potential for interesting movement seems so promising
see, this is what i think about constantly!!!!! before everything was “quartercircle, DP, vertical charge, horizontal charge” before everything was “fireball zoner, poke zoner, rushdown, grappler, mobile grappler, puppet character, lumbering giant, and adapts-to-the-randomly-chosen-results-of-their-own-arcing projectile” archtypes, before everything was “healthbar, move enhancing persistent meter, damage-generated nonpersistent ragemeter, character-specific meter and burst meter”.... people were coming up with very valid and interesting new ideas!!! and now we arent coming up with any new ideas for fighters... the indie fighting game developers always have to get their inspiration from the innovative mechanics of old bigbudget fighters, or other recent indie fighters, but never _recent_ bigbudget fighters because whenever recent bigbudget fighters innovate, the designers get so much hate on twitter for “getting rid of my favorite thing!!!!” they end up having mental health crises!!!!!
@M L dude, i downloaded Art of Fighting 3 to my PS4 off the playstation store specifically because that series RULES. in street fighter 3: 3rd strike every character's taunt gives a unique temporary stat buff upon execution, but in street fighter 4 taunts don't do anything anymore... it's like YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE THE TAUNTS HAVE A UNIQUE FUNCTION PER CHARACTER IF THAT'S TOO DIFFICULT CAPCOM, JUST MAKE THEM ALL REDUCE THE OPPONENT'S SUPER METER!!! every character's supermeter usage is already balanced against all the others' for its utility per EX bar; it would be decently-balanced automatically because of that!
@@Morrigan101 active switch is so cool... street fighter x tekken shouldve had active switch available at all times via a character-tagout, instead of only during cross assault mode
"Games like Injustice and Mortal Kombat, which have stage interactables" DOA: Have you already forgotten who started this whole thing? Edit: Aaa I'm dumb I forgot this was just about 2D fighters
Yeah he used Tekken footage as an example in 3D games, but DOA would had been a lot better example. In DOA each stage is determine factor on each fight, much more than in Tekken.
Hey, I loved your video! I'm a Smash player, so the most I know about traditional 2D fighting games comes from playing as the Shotos in Smash (Ryu, Ken, and Terry) and I've got to say, I like the way they play. I've recently taken an interest in traditional fighting games (hence me watching your videos), and while I was watching this, an interesting idea came across my mind: how would layout a typical Smash tri-plat (triple platform i.e. Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Lylat Cruis, etc.) or even more outlandish ones, like the transformations of Arena Ferox, would affect a traditional 2D fighter? I don't know too much about how typical 2D fighters work, and would be interested in seeing your input on how it would change the way these games are played.
I'm sure the lane system playa into the neutral in a big way, but from how it's described here, it effectively acts as a meterless invincible dash you can do to switch sides and escape the corner. Is that all it takes to make ring-outs fair, easy ways to escape the corner? I guess I'm thinking of many fighters where setplay means you'd never get a chance to even use any escape move. I guess it really depends on the overall flow of the game.
Well, i admit i'm going by memory so some details might be off, but i believe the Lane Switch button triggered an attack that hit the opponent if they were not in the center lane, so it's not invincible to EVERYTHING. And (this i'm absolutely certain of) some moves hit multiple lanes. Attempting a line switch doesn't guarantee you'll get out of the corner, at all. In the final game of the Real Bout subseries (Real Bout Fatal Fury 2), the "attack other lanes" function of the button triggered a high that could be comboed from, or a cancellable sweep. And while on the background lane, you couldn't block and only had access to 3 attacks (though a few characters also had special moves only usable from there): a low that avoided the foreground high, an overhead that avoided the foreground sweep, and a slow attack that didn't avoid either option and could be blocked both ways, but could be comboed from.
As someone who fell in love with Fighting games through Smash it has always bothered me that most stages are just pretty backgrounds, even in 3D fighters stages end up being relatively cookie cutter. My favorite stages are the Tekken 4 stages, I understand why they're basically a failed experiment but I feel they had something there that if embraced would make for exciting moments. I think we need to do away with random stages in any game with gameplay affecting stage differences, devs should make some safe traditional stages and then let their imagination go wild embracing gimmicks and crazy ideas, if a stage is too wack for competitive play then get it banned.
i dont get why people say smash stages arnt possible in traditional fighters. even with stage control you can do alot of stuff even it doesnt matter if its only a small change. but i think the reaL problem is that games outside of smash dont have fun gamemodes like 2v2 or items it doesnt matter if its unbalanced. it gets the game more popular without getting in the way of hardcore fans
I like short ST style stages. Hate long sf4/sf5 style stages. The corner isnt a problem if you actually MOVE FORWARD. Its only a problem when all you do is back away or your opponents character has long range corner carry so that 1 combo puts you in the corner. Its amazing how bad sf5 plays just because people can back away for so long yet still not be in the corner. Its just not a fun experience.
Wow, i have real bout but never played it and i think most 2D fighting games should of tried that lane change concept because it does add a whole different dimension for 2D fighting games.
Not to come off the wrong way, but I wish there were more... simple, fighting games, that explored more interesting ideas. It takes an awful lot of investment for most people to reach a level of proficiency in a new fg that it feels fun to play, and I think that makes it a lot harder to just kinda, fuck around and try new stuff.
Whoa! I’ve never seen this game or mechanic! We could use this in a crap game like SFV. Been a Capcom fan boy for years. But lately, I’m starting to feel like SNK was the team I needed to be on...
I find it's too much going on in KoF. Instant overheads into full combos. Evasive rolls through moves(especially fireballs). I unfortunately couldn't get into the series.
2d stages are fine the way they are, what with the increasing light, spark effects, 50 hit combos and what not. Imagine DBFZ with stages doing more than they do right now. And how many folk are already saying the gg strive Wall break is a bad mechanic? (not me)
I did not like Real Bout 1. Aside from the character balancing and combo mechanics being wack the ring out hazards were cheap and the side step attacks were easily punishable making it near meaningless to use
gotta disagree 100% w/this vid on RBFF... that's actually my preferred game of the ff3 series but even when I was younger plying the arcade I knew damn well snk implementing ring outs in their 2d fighter was an INCREDIBLY STUPID Idea and low and behold, IT WAS.. for the most part nobody plyed that game at the arcade I went to for good damn reason..
Suicidal Power Dunk is the funniest thing Terry has ever did in any video.
POWEER DUN- *GAME*
Welcome to "terrible online smash matches."
FF has such smooth animation. The way they track each other on both planes is gold.
Not to mention, that's a lot of sprites made in the 90s, for every angle. Even with a limited moveset, that's about 20 characters with about 9 angles (and 2 movesets, technically)
SNK just managed to reach good playability on for this series from Real Bout on. 94 to 98 was great time for fighting game hardcores, so much things going on
I think this video underplays the significance of stage length. The overall size of a stage can have an effect on how the game is played to an extreme degree. As an example, KOF has relatively small stages, a couple backdashes is usually all it takes to get there. This results in losses of stage control being both extremely important and more fluid with how quickly a situation can change. It encourages players to remain offensive and stand their ground rather than completely avoid interactions since the corner is almost always just off screen
he is also ignoring, all be it deliberate or not, the fact that in RBFF ring outs were a gross exploit of the game and really ruined the experience of 90% of the matches had in that game.. it never belonged there or ANY 2d fighter....
@@billybadass3056 Yeah, it only works for competitive play tbh
I think he didn't focus on that because varying lengths is something more standardized and experimented with. I wouldn't be shocked if he did a video on that topic, this just wasnt that
Surprised you didn't mention Fatal Fury Special, where the stages are even more variable. Axel Hawk's stage is a boxing ring with electrified ropes, so being knocked into the corner hurts you, Jubei's stage has breakable panes in front of the background so you can hide in the back lane, and Mai's stage gives her more moves (think Vega but on crack).
So stage control
a concept that is core to the idea of an advantage state in smash
was also in Real Bout?
Sick.
Now you see why Sakurai gave Terry and SNK as a whole so much love
@@GokuInfintysaiyan For real.
Smash was basically created after Fatal Fury and KOF.
Yo, that mechanic that SNK added about 3 positions to be able to scape the corner or the fact of going out of the scenario are pretty dam cool moves! I loved the video man, keep it up.
Although it is not quite different from just a rectangle stage, the stages in Galaxy Fight and Shuma-Goraths stage in Marvel Super heroes actually have no walls at all so they scroll forever.
But those are the only examples of 2D stages that aren't traditional.
Oh yes! Galaxy Fight is a game I played ages ago, it feels largely unexplored so it's hard to research but in the future after i've grinded it a bit, I'm going to be talking about it for sure.
In Real Bout Fatal Fury, Geese's stage is an infinite scrolling stage.
There are some Clayfighter 63.3333 stages that infinitely scroll but they have pseudo-3D backgrounds as well and the characters can shift themselves so that they align with wall breaks into new scenes.
Savage Reign is another traditional 2d fighter but with unconventional stages.
Shuma's stage required a wall break, but easily done. Colossus' stage on X-men COTA had a floor break as did Spiral's
Some love for Real Bout, nice. This is such an overlooked gem.
This is a very interesting idea, i never knew about the line system in Fatal Fury.
Fatal Fury Special and Real Bout Special were godlike. SNK has always pushed innovation. Running instead of dashing, roll canceling, the TOP system from Garou (was super fucking cool), the lane system, the first true super moves (Art of Fighting), presentation of character select screens (Fatal Fury 3), music, and even the type of fighting game as a whole (3v3 fighters, lane fighters, etc)
Plus check out the graphics on Garou (Mark of the Wolves) and KOF13.
@@GokuInfintysaiyan You can also crouch walk in several of the Fatal Fury titles allowing a character with a down charge to slowly inch forward without losing their anti-air and allowing characters to adjust slightly into poke range while ducking under a move.
Another fantastic thing they tried was the Speed and Power selection in Last Blade and the Slash and Burst selection in some of the Samurai Shodown games giving you vastly different characters to play branching from the same base character.
RBF was my favorite fighter series back in the day
I hope some form of the mechanics come back to 2D
u mean ring outs in a 2d fighter?? NO!!! Nobody wants that back except for you and apparently the poster of this vid.. thank GOD u2 are in the extreme minority for that
rbf? what does that stands for??
@@billybadass3056 I'm all for ring-outs! I'm putting them in my solo-dev 2D fighter (though they can be turned on or off).
@@TetsuDeinonychus it was an EXTREME Turn off for me and most ppl i know experience since its something that is totally abused and makes the match not fun at all
@@billybadass3056 I think it's just a "different strokes for different folks" thing, and for me it's something I have to be in the mood for (which is why they'll be something that can be turned on or off before the match in my project).
I remember when in Marvel Super Heroes, Shuma Gorath's Stage blew my mind by being able to loop throug the stage once you break the wall, of course years later I would discover the stage was incredibly unfair while fighting against projectile zoners.
Ah, Blue Mary, such a staple of the 90s. You will never find a character design and name combo in any other era but the 90s. SNK's tastes have really became synonymous with 90s culture.
It's unrelated to the video but If you all are a fan of the lane feature, check out Guardian Hero's. It's one of the more unique 2d beat em ups out there. Plus you can play it with up to 16 people in a huge battle royale. It's a dope game that didnt get much recognition sadly.
Guardian Heroes is the best Saturn game by a huge margin!
Probably because it’s a Sega Saturn game. That’s a shame because it’s so great
@@BigBossHayabusa it had an HD touch up on the XBLA store years ago. Sadly it was neglected again. :(
I do wish more 2D fighters experimented with unique stage mechanics. Growing up with Soul Calibur and Smash, I ended up liking the idea that the stage itself could change how I approach the match. As Smash's meta evolves through its various games, it seems the general consensus has moved to fewer stage objects in general, moving things in line with other 2D fighters (and this isn't only a thing with newer Smash games, competitive 64 only has one tournament legal stage and I've seen many matches where both players wait out certain stage transformations on Pokemon Stadium in Melee). In some sense you could consider it to be one extra factor in what makes 2D and 3D fighters different, since the lanes in this game you're describing do remind me of side-stepping in Tekken.
One on hand a little bit of interactivity would be nice. On the other hand I wouldn't want the stages to interfere with the fighting too much (as often happens in Smash Bros).
@@TetsuDeinonychus When it comes to a game like Smash Ultimate which has a little over 100 stages, I'd hope that there'd be room for both. Especially with the option to turn hazards off, the more wild stages could be standardized at the player's choice. Even so, I feel like there's been a deliberate effort to have more simple stage designs and mechanics in Ultimate's new stages as compared to previous Smash games. In Smash 4, you had new stages like Kalos Pokemon League, Mushroom Kingdom U, The Great Cave Offensive, and Midgar with prominent hazards or transformations. In Ultimate, the stage with the most prominent hazards of the new ones is probably Mementos, which I do like but still feel isn't as creative as some of the previous ones. None of this is to say that it's a bad thing, competitive players do appreciate having a wider variety of balanced stages to play on and I'm sure it's easier for casual players as well to get the hang of things without having to battle the terrain as well. Consider this as nothing more than the ramblings of someone who hasn't quite gotten what they want yet (and probably shouldn't).
Really, really cool ways to make 2d stages unique are to:
A. Create objects that fighters can interact with that instead of doing damage have a delayed effect on the stage itself, a.k.a. pulling a lever or pressing a button to alter the stage or create a small hazard in some way.
B. Make it to where certain parts of the stage box in the fighter, keeping them from throwing out certain moves that involve bumping into their surroundings like big roundhouses/spinning haymakers, horizontal slashes and command grabs.
C. Involve something fighters can hang onto and jump from,, like vines or walls. Obviously their attacks would be extremely limited until they decide to jump off, but this could be a tool that could really fake out boxers/projectile spammers.
D. Involve beasts that when hit with a whiffed attack will retreat and then later from the background try and pounce on the fighter that attacked it.
E. Involve moving floors at times.
The trick is to not design around anything like aerial platforms, extra projectiles or otherwise immediate damage or complete inhibition, but to think outside of those boxes and make the benefits more minute - trust me, fighting game players will use every tool to their fullest and will have fun both using them well and getting stuffed trying to use them. Game companies are so lazy for not trying anything like this out whatsoever!
These are pretty cool ideas.
Holy shit 3:41 that move basically took his life! Good gravy these older games were harsh
That's cause that was his super move/ finisher. His life was in the red, so he didn't need meter to execute it.
Also, the yellow meter is actually shorter than the red one.
Yeah because modern fighters never have damage that high. GG Strive and SamSho are just figments of your imagination.
Very cool! The concept of fighting for the center of stage reminds me of Smash a ton, even if that gets carried off into the “other” group fairly often.
Smash’s lead director loves this series, perhaps he took some of the feeling of fighting for center from this game.
I love how terry brought the wall break thing to smash but the competitive side thinks its dumb
great video! would love to see more on this topic, especially if you any other games with unconventional stage systems.
Talking about different kind of 2d mechanics, I remember a World Heroes game having a lot of stage hazzards and a tug of war life bar game mode
The first World Heroes game (SNK as well? At least they had the rights) had either normal matches or 'Death match' mode. Of the eight stages, three had wall hazards (fire ringropes, electric ringropes, or wall spikes), three were the same but with oil, one was just the oil, and the last was lame (the 'hazard' was the loser's portrait would be shaved bald). Second had similar things. Then they took them out.
I’m a simple troglodyte. I see yamazaki, I click
I'm about as simple: I see classic SNK and I click.
LITERALLY SAME
Yeah, stage play is something most games now are pretty timid to try out it seems. Real Bout's lane system is fun too. I've been playing with stage concepts a bit with a thing I'm makin. There's also a project I'll be jumping off called Unreal Fighter 2D and the guy makin it is adding a TON of stage interaction options to the template and after some chats, he told me he also plans to add in lane support. Along with beat'em up elements. I'm hyped to throw my work into that engine.
Woah! That sounds hype as fuck!
3:28 what are those... floating peaches?
World Heroes 1 and 2 have a deathmatch mode with stage hazards... WH2 experimented with a tug-of-war style of lifebar... You should check it out...
Amazing video!
I saw a lot of comments talking about the games he left mentioning, and nobody talks about Dead or Alive!! I know it’s 3D but it’s one of the fighting game sagas that pushed the stages/environments further.
Not even mentioning Dead or Alive in a video that talks about stages in fighting games shows how underrated the saga is. I know this video was focused in 2D but I think that should have deserved honorable mention at least haha, and again, very cool video!
Me and my bro used to play ring out rules on SF2 TURBO on SNES using E.Honda’s stage. Time flies.
There was a wall break stage in TMNT Tournament Fighter on SNES as well!
Kind of a shame the other Real Bout titles removed this.
Mortal Kombat 3 had uppercutting into a different rectangle
And MK4 had 2.5D sidestep and simple stage interactables.
Awesome channel. Lots of interesting stuff to watch and well explained, even though English isn't my mother tongue.
I hope to see more stuff coming.
I like the idea of being knocked offstage. Fatal Fury can innovate by designating certain corner areas that can be passed through. Maybe have a steel crate on the side of the stage. In order to ring someone out, you have to knock your opponent over the crate.
You know as far as the corner goes I really like the option to roll out past your opponent in some versions of KoF and anime fighting games like persona 4 arena. I think it really adds one extra layer of depth while still being very punishable if your opponent reacts to it. And it can be used as a mind game tool too. Certain moves will vacuum your opponent out of the corner and you can use a roll after creating pressure on block or something to cross them up if they're too preoccupied with holding your mix. Also persona has a paralysis status effect on some moves which makes it impossible to move left or right but you can still roll toward your opponent so having the mechanic enables more of these tricky styles of play while still being balanced.
Man, this channel is fantastic
Never thought about the plane system in this manner. It's like Nidhogg with 1.5 screens. Interesting... 🤔🤜🤛
1 random idea i had, was what if you had the option to change the direction of the gravity affecting your character? So suddenly, the left and right walls, which slide back as you move left and right, suddenly get fixed in place, and your character can now move up and down the same way you were originally moving left and right. Instead of pressing 6 to do a forward attack, you'd have to press 2, and jumping would then move you left or right instead of up. (Or maybe the inputs remain the same, but like, hitting 6-B results in an attack going downward instead of rightward.)
Characters could have unique weight classes that affect not just how short their normal jumps are, but how much damage they'll do when they land on you if they drop from the top of the screen due to gravity. You could have lighter characters which have a slow decent, which allows for them to effectively play from the middle of the screen instead of on any specific wall.
You could combo gravitational inputs in the middle of combat to shift your character's attack animations to hit from a new angle due to everyone's attacks having a fixed angle, but an angle that is dependent on it's center of gravity. You could do a Jump-Attack, and midway through the arc of your jump, you shift your gravity so your attack makes a sweeping arc. Maybe you do this to alter the trajectory of your attack, or maybe you do this to dodge your opponent's anti-air without using a double-jump.
Keep up the fighting game essay videos
I, for the longest time, have wanted a traditional 2D fighter with a smash like stage layout. I really don't think it's that unreasonable and the potential for interesting movement seems so promising
see, this is what i think about constantly!!!!! before everything was “quartercircle, DP, vertical charge, horizontal charge” before everything was “fireball zoner, poke zoner, rushdown, grappler, mobile grappler, puppet character, lumbering giant, and adapts-to-the-randomly-chosen-results-of-their-own-arcing projectile” archtypes, before everything was “healthbar, move enhancing persistent meter, damage-generated nonpersistent ragemeter, character-specific meter and burst meter”.... people were coming up with very valid and interesting new ideas!!! and now we arent coming up with any new ideas for fighters... the indie fighting game developers always have to get their inspiration from the innovative mechanics of old bigbudget fighters, or other recent indie fighters, but never _recent_ bigbudget fighters because whenever recent bigbudget fighters innovate, the designers get so much hate on twitter for “getting rid of my favorite thing!!!!” they end up having mental health crises!!!!!
@M L dude, i downloaded Art of Fighting 3 to my PS4 off the playstation store specifically because that series RULES.
in street fighter 3: 3rd strike every character's taunt gives a unique temporary stat buff upon execution, but in street fighter 4 taunts don't do anything anymore... it's like YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE THE TAUNTS HAVE A UNIQUE FUNCTION PER CHARACTER IF THAT'S TOO DIFFICULT CAPCOM, JUST MAKE THEM ALL REDUCE THE OPPONENT'S SUPER METER!!! every character's supermeter usage is already balanced against all the others' for its utility per EX bar; it would be decently-balanced automatically because of that!
Like the people who complained about mvci using the new active switch with 2v2 instead of 3v3 assists (BTW Active switch > assists )
@@Morrigan101 active switch is so cool... street fighter x tekken shouldve had active switch available at all times via a character-tagout, instead of only during cross assault mode
@@AuntBibby like MVCI had.. i really wish mvci had better roster and visual (thanks mcu ) because the game play and rollback netcode are pretty great
Real bout seemed to open up tekken and soul calibur
Battle Arena Toshinden for the Gameboy also had ring outs.
So did Virtua Fighter 2 on the Genesis, but those were 2D "demakes" of 3D games.
I don't even play fighters for real and I love this channel
I'd give a nod to K.I as well. The first two games had very memorable ring-outs.
underrated channel
"Games like Injustice and Mortal Kombat, which have stage interactables"
DOA: Have you already forgotten who started this whole thing?
Edit: Aaa I'm dumb I forgot this was just about 2D fighters
Yeah he used Tekken footage as an example in 3D games, but DOA would had been a lot better example. In DOA each stage is determine factor on each fight, much more than in Tekken.
Urban Champion says hi!
@@jihadjoe Alright then, DOA was the first GOOD game to do it lol
But doa wasn't a good game
@@yeahboyz9314 i don't know... the franchise had been around since 1996 and is still active so that can't be coincidence or luck.
You’d never mentioned X-MEN children of the atom or X-Men VS Streetfighter and their level changes
STFU Capcom stan
Hey, I loved your video! I'm a Smash player, so the most I know about traditional 2D fighting games comes from playing as the Shotos in Smash (Ryu, Ken, and Terry) and I've got to say, I like the way they play. I've recently taken an interest in traditional fighting games (hence me watching your videos), and while I was watching this, an interesting idea came across my mind: how would layout a typical Smash tri-plat (triple platform i.e. Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Lylat Cruis, etc.) or even more outlandish ones, like the transformations of Arena Ferox, would affect a traditional 2D fighter? I don't know too much about how typical 2D fighters work, and would be interested in seeing your input on how it would change the way these games are played.
It’s not new to SFV but it’s the most recent, I wish all stages had “stage fatalities” and stage transitions.
I'm sure the lane system playa into the neutral in a big way, but from how it's described here, it effectively acts as a meterless invincible dash you can do to switch sides and escape the corner. Is that all it takes to make ring-outs fair, easy ways to escape the corner? I guess I'm thinking of many fighters where setplay means you'd never get a chance to even use any escape move. I guess it really depends on the overall flow of the game.
Well, i admit i'm going by memory so some details might be off, but i believe the Lane Switch button triggered an attack that hit the opponent if they were not in the center lane, so it's not invincible to EVERYTHING. And (this i'm absolutely certain of) some moves hit multiple lanes. Attempting a line switch doesn't guarantee you'll get out of the corner, at all.
In the final game of the Real Bout subseries (Real Bout Fatal Fury 2), the "attack other lanes" function of the button triggered a high that could be comboed from, or a cancellable sweep. And while on the background lane, you couldn't block and only had access to 3 attacks (though a few characters also had special moves only usable from there): a low that avoided the foreground high, an overhead that avoided the foreground sweep, and a slow attack that didn't avoid either option and could be blocked both ways, but could be comboed from.
Real about is a 3D game in 2D
Only other game that has different stages is fighters when you do a heavy and it stage changes at the end of a characters life
STRIVE is going to be interesting
As someone who fell in love with Fighting games through Smash it has always bothered me that most stages are just pretty backgrounds, even in 3D fighters stages end up being relatively cookie cutter. My favorite stages are the Tekken 4 stages, I understand why they're basically a failed experiment but I feel they had something there that if embraced would make for exciting moments. I think we need to do away with random stages in any game with gameplay affecting stage differences, devs should make some safe traditional stages and then let their imagination go wild embracing gimmicks and crazy ideas, if a stage is too wack for competitive play then get it banned.
i dont get why people say smash stages arnt possible in traditional fighters. even with stage control you can do alot of stuff even it doesnt matter if its only a small change. but i think the reaL problem is that games outside of smash dont have fun gamemodes like 2v2 or items it doesnt matter if its unbalanced. it gets the game more popular without getting in the way of hardcore fans
I love that melee has 5 legal stages and 4 of them are broken
anyone know of any games with this mechanic in modern day ebcaseu this sounds like the coolest idea for a fighting game ever
You can play these games for free on fightcade
I want SNK to make a Sequel of Mark of the Wolves using Real Bout Fatal Fury's style of fighting.
thank you for how you handled smash.
I almost forgot RB had this feature 😀
Injustice 2...Arena Transition tho 😶😭😭💪🏽💯
I like short ST style stages. Hate long sf4/sf5 style stages. The corner isnt a problem if you actually MOVE FORWARD. Its only a problem when all you do is back away or your opponents character has long range corner carry so that 1 combo puts you in the corner. Its amazing how bad sf5 plays just because people can back away for so long yet still not be in the corner. Its just not a fun experience.
Ring out in soul caliber lol its so funny
Imagine if MvC2 had these mechanics... lawd
Wow, i have real bout but never played it and i think most 2D fighting games should of tried that lane change concept because it does add a whole different dimension for 2D fighting games.
cool
Realbout was awesome
When would you say the established norms of fighting were “set in stone”?
Not to come off the wrong way, but I wish there were more... simple, fighting games, that explored more interesting ideas. It takes an awful lot of investment for most people to reach a level of proficiency in a new fg that it feels fun to play, and I think that makes it a lot harder to just kinda, fuck around and try new stuff.
I remember this was the cools shit when I 1st saw it
3:28
Whoa! I’ve never seen this game or mechanic! We could use this in a crap game like SFV. Been a Capcom fan boy for years. But lately, I’m starting to feel like SNK was the team I needed to be on...
Just try this game. It have plenty mechanics and 3 plane arene just one of them.
I find it's too much going on in KoF. Instant overheads into full combos. Evasive rolls through moves(especially fireballs). I unfortunately couldn't get into the series.
I wish KOF XV added the ring out and line system back, it would be super interesting
Makes a video about stages, does not mention Samurai Shodown.
@SNES Nes Huge stages controlled by zoom and opposed to fix camera.
X-men Vs. SF
all I will say is One Must fall 2097
What’s okey
Oki - it's basically the concept of knocking someone down and mixing them up.
@@TheoryFighter Thank you kind sir :)
2d stages are fine the way they are, what with the increasing light, spark effects, 50 hit combos and what not. Imagine DBFZ with stages doing more than they do right now. And how many folk are already saying the gg strive Wall break is a bad mechanic? (not me)
I don't like Strives wall break because there's no choice in how you interact with it.
I did not like Real Bout 1. Aside from the character balancing and combo mechanics being wack the ring out hazards were cheap and the side step attacks were easily punishable making it near meaningless to use
Do you even know the smell of the game?
gotta disagree 100% w/this vid on RBFF... that's actually my preferred game of the ff3 series but even when I was younger plying the arcade I knew damn well snk implementing ring outs in their 2d fighter was an INCREDIBLY STUPID Idea and low and behold, IT WAS.. for the most part nobody plyed that game at the arcade I went to for good damn reason..
and there was nothing "cool" about fighting in that dark empty subway station... fighting there SUCKED and still does
How is it stupid? Is it just because you hate anything that doesn't looks conventional?
@@JoJoboiWav i can tell that you drool when you talk... for sure you give me DOWNS energy
snk brought a lot of innovation to the fighting game genre back in it's hey day that capcom ended up stealing.
You spent so much time talking about ring outs, but ZERO SECONDS TALKING ABOUT VIRTUA FIGHTER??? Turn in your cape, now
@@starbreaker6441 my comment stands. Ring Outs became a staple only after Virtua Fighter. It deserves an honorable mention
光復香港 時代革命 free hk
Out of bounds is the worst thing for fighting games.
DON"T MENTION SMASH WITH FIGHTING GAMES IT IS NOT A FIGHTING GAME... IT IS A HACK n SLASH PARTY GAME.