Great video! That archetypes video was my first scripted video I made, and there's a LOT I wish i could change, and this pretty much addressed all my gripes with my own video!
There is a category that doesn't get pointed out so often that I call "Wizard" or "Mod" characters. These aren't wizards in terms of their design but they have tools that would be considered a glitch relative to the framework that the rest of the cast sits in. Faust and Bedman are good examples of this in Guilty Gear. Many Puppet characters and Composite characters are a sub class of the "Mod" category. To be clear, "Mod" characters may not have teleports, composite or puppets...it's that they have some mechanic that sits outside of the framework that all other characters must obey.
@@SinisterSally Yah it bassicly a mix of the All-rounder, Zoner and rushdown. (exemple Karin got quite alot of rushdown skill dash and mix-up her skill that got a grab is a mix-up.) Overall the footsie is kinda in the midle of the 3 arctype in my opinion.
@@piranhaplant8483 got ran over and flied up but walked away unscathed... Until he slipped and hurt his leg Also fell several feet into a ravine when a bridge collapsed and only suffered a cold
I love the separation of archetype and traits. Many people seem to conflate a characters movelist with their archetype, without determining the main gameplan that character executes. Ken and Sagat both have uppercuts, fireballs, and a forward moving special, but Sagat is a zoner and Ken is rushdown. Great vid man.
18:10 To add on to Ice Climbers, although you can desync their attacks allowing for really interesting combos, the secondary climber will always try to get close to the primary climber whenever possible, which isn’t exactly how a puppet character works.
Great video! my only comment is in the Rekka section was to bring up the idea that Rekka characters have mixups based on "are they going to do the whole rekka or not" and would have been a nice inclusion. thanks again for the great video
Great video. This is probably the best of the recent spate of character archetype videos, and much better than Leon Massey's video (ironic, considering he pushed for those videos in the first place). I really agree with your definitions, and I like the way you categorized your information into broad archetypes and traits, since that's how a lot of characters are designed in the modern age. Even simple fighting games don't have characters whose entire gameplans are "good fireballs, bad close range" or "good close range, bad long range" because those characters just aren't that stimulating to play unless the game is super broken/deep like Super Turbo. I especially think the footsies archetype solves a lot of the inherent problems that come from the typical shoto/grappler/rushdown/zoner categories. I'll definitely be showing this video to my friends/other fighting game players. It's criminal how few subscribers and views you have considering the effort you put into your videos. As for archetypes/traits you didn't discuss, there are a few that I think are worth mentioning: - Summoner: similar to puppet characters, but they summon "fire and forget" allies or call assists rather than controlling two things at once directly. - Setplay/vortex/prison: characters who are very good at forcing their opponents into mixup situations and then looping those mixup situations. There are definitely shades of this in SF, but SFV has been very clearly designed to limit looping mixup situations. I'd say throw loop situations were the closest SFV ever truly got to setplay like you'd find in an airdasher or tag game. SF4 Fuerte and Ibuki were also quite good at doing this, but given the prevalence of hard knockdowns and unblockables in that game there were many other characters who could do it too. (I'm actually making a video on this topic, but that will take a while to be published.) - "Snapping turtle"/defensive: characters who have some kind of unique defensive mechanic that allows them to challenge/escape situations other characters can't. I can only really think of Baiken in GG and Yoshimitsu in Tekken 7 (because his Flash move is so fast it allows him to challenge/punish things nobody else can), so this is probably more of a trait than an archetype. Slayer has shades of this because of how his BDCs work.
Urien in SFV I think is a good example of a Setplay character. He can create some really dirty mixup situations with his V-Trigger 1 and V-Skill 2 that bounce the opponent around and make juggles that leave you unexpectedly standing on a random side if he ends with forward MP
He also briefly touched on this, but trappers aka the characters whose toolkit revolves around setting up traps that the opponent has to carefully navigate around to get to the trapping character or to escape their pressure. Definitely should've been expanded upon because it's a fairly common trait in many fighting games and a pretty varied one too (eg. both Rachel and Kokonoe from BlazBlue can be classified as trappers but their gameplans are completely different). Also, as another example of a defensive character: Hakumen. He usually prefers harassing his opponents with his huge pokes and he doesn't like to get in - instead he waits for his opponent to come to him and punishes their mistakes with his oppressive counters and massive burst damage. Adding to that, he's the only character in the game who builds meter passively so he has no reason to want to get in and the opponent is constantly urged to finish him off as quickly as possible before he gets access to his most dangerous tools. He can also cut projectiles, leaving behind a huge hitbox in their place, so zoning him out isn't as simple as it may initially seem.
I would have thrown in "Charge" characters to the trait list, eg, characters whose gameplan is very heavily dominated by movesets with (typically) directional button holds. Examples being Guile, Urien, Remy, Falke and Sabrewulf(?). It's notable because said gameplans usually keep them fairly stationary unless they employ certain (sometimes game specific) movement to retain their charges while advancing. Not applicable to all games, but the limitation on *how* they perform their typical special moves generally pushes them more towards certain styles of play.
I originally considered Charge characters when making the script, but I felt like talking about them would mean having to make a section on Motion characters as well, which I didn't think was worth talking about (which in hindsight is kinda dumb reasoning lol). I also tried to focus on traits that had several aspects that wouldn't be immediately obvious, or in the case of the Rekka trait, traits with names that don't give newcomers any clue on what they do. You make a good point about how charge inputs affect a character's movement. I hadn't really considered how a character's movement is affected by having to charge frequently, though characters like Alex and Urien in SF5 are more active and less reliant on charging than more stationary characters like Honda or F.A.N.G.
Corollary to the Big Body trait: Small Body. SSB is one of the few series I've seen that's been very playful with regards to the size and dimensions of the character, but I've definitely seen Small Body characters in other fighting games, too. I'm a little surprised you didn't go into the deeper gameplay implications of a Big Body character. What's most important about them is that their hurtboxes are also larger and generally wider, meaning air options that would whiff smaller characters coming over and behind them would barely nick Big Body characters and register a hit, crouching as a Big Body wouldn't let you low profile as many moves as you'd be able to as other characters, certain combos which might whiff other characters could connect better with Big Body characters due to larger and wider hurtboxes. Hell, against Big Body characters, air options in general can be more dangerous because anti-air options might strike much higher for Big Body characters than average, and since Big Body characters literally control more space than average characters, they can start combos and keep their opponents deep within their own hitboxes rather than fearing knockback like you might with other characters.
Prime example of a Rekka characters is the queen of rekkas herself, Angel from King of Fighters. Her rekkas by themselves are as long as some characters entire move lists and can feed back into each other or feinted as needed. She's considered one of the hardest and most technical characters in the franchise.
What about characters that utilize a resource other than the standard super meter like Sin from GG? They have a unique play style that require them to pause and recharge in order for them to do anything significant.
Smash has quite a few of those - Kirby (Copy Abilities), Olimar (Pikmin), Little Mac (Power Meter), Robin (weapon durability), Cloud (Limit Gauge), Inkling (ink tank), Joker (Rebellion Gauge), Hero (MP), Banjo & Kazooie (Golden Feathers, sort of), and Steve (materials).
I'd argue that those characters fit under a different "trait" as explained by the video, but they do not have vastly different playstyles than the archetypes mentioned. I mainly play Killer Instinct though which has characters that fit the these archetypes such as Eagle (his zoning capabilites are limited by the arrow resource) or Maya (whose daggers need to be retrieved after throwing them and mainly fits a rushdown playstyle which is aided by her unblockable projectiles) so I'm not too sure about Guilty Gear characters sorry.
@@MrAuthor3DS As a Smash player myself, I'd divide that list into two main types of resources. Core Resources and Comeback Resources. Core Resources (Olimar, Robin, Inkling, Hero and Steeve) are resources that are used extensively throughout an entire fight, and are typically required to have for the character to do anything significant. Comeback Resources (Lucario, Little Mac, Cloud, Joker, Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya) are resources that are accumulated over the course of a fight to be used for a single high power attack or a powered up state.
Actually I said "Morrigan IN Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3". I know that Morrigan is a Darkstalkers character first and foremost, I just figured using her MVC3 incarnation would be more recognizable to viewers.
@@Hydro_236 as long as you know where she's really from lolll. Considering this video is for new fg people I understand your decision good sir. Beautiful content and thank you for continuing to the fighting game world🤜💥🤛💫💪🤝
I've been playing fighting games fairly casually since I rented SF2 on my snes about 25 years ago on a whim. I didn't really learn anything but I really liked how you laid out a whole lot of information we all probably intuitively know and put it all into context. I really appreciate how you laid out the main archetypes and variants; I think it will help a ton of people with the terminology and the philosphies they embody. Keep up the good work
Firstly: Any time anyone uses the No More Heroes boss introduction voice, I’m immediately on board with what the video is about Secondly: I will always love the fact that one of if not the first ever puppet fighter in a fighting game is Devo from Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Heritage for the Future
I like your definition of "footsies" characters! That perfectly epitomizes the sort of characters I like to main-characters that don't have the full-screen harassment abilities of true zoners, but rather focus on controlling the mid-range with big, disjointed normals.
This is an AMAZING video, very well thought-out and entertaining in addition to being informative. Well done! I do have a somewhat minor gripe though...At the beginning of the video you specifically bring up "composite characters" as a an example of a character trait that's not inherent to an archetype, but then later in the traits section you neglect to bring it up again. I think it would have been great to talk about composites again as a way of rounding out the video, just discussing what sort of archetypes composite characters can fill with their movesets and showing that a trait can play into an archetype, but not be beholden to it, and vice versa.
Thank you for your feedback! Honestly, that's a great idea and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it myself! I thought that I had said all that I needed to say about Composite characters at the beginning of the video, but in hindsight, I really should have included them in the traits section. I've gained a lot more insight on fighting game character design in the past 2 years as well, so if I had made this video now then I would easily have more stuff to say about Composite characters. I'll be sure to keep your advice in mind for future videos!
Awesome vid! I think you missed out on 2 archetypes, Charge characters and Counter characters. Charge characters being ones that require to charge up their specials, preferably able to mix up their delivery when the Charge is complete. Counter characters like Baiken and Hakumen create openings by using strong defensive options that can reward a correct prediction of what their opponent will do
Brad Wong from Dead or Alive is apparently categorized as a trick character due to his drunken style (ex: he can attack while lying down). Does that count as "unorthodox" or "mix-up" as defined by eddventure's video?
Damn dude found your channel right now. I love watching fighting games related documentarys idk what i should call these videos. :D Thank you the videos.
KOF has some differences on commands and how certain types of attacks work (for example, a lot of characters have "hadouken likes" that run throught the floor, so you have to crouch defend instead of just defending) so people prefer to analize KOF games separately.
Personally it was a lack of knowledge & experience with KOF games, but also from reading up on how characters play in KOF, I got the impression that characters play largely the same and don't follow many different archetypes. I could be wrong about that though.
@@Hydro_236 IMO most of them plays like Fei Long from SF to me. Plus they got this 2button dodge so perhaps that's a different mechanic. There's grapplers like Clark etc too. Appreciate the reply! Really nice video!
Another character trait would be setup characters like testament from gg and cyrax/ joker from mk. Characters who create mixups with traps and weird projectiles instead of normal and special moves. Great video btw
@@stuisp yeah most of them are but for instance joker from mk doesn’t really zone, he has some big buttons but that’s about it. I’d say it’s more of a trait that can apply to characters, mostly zoners.
this video is exactly what i was looking for thank you. If only i had seen this video 2 years ago when i was trying to figure out why Karin was so different
There is a weird archetype I've seen often that seems to combine an oppresive projectile, a strong punish game and lots of mixups. Fukua from skullgirls and Falco from smash bros are some examples, and their general gameplan is to force the opponent to approach them so they can punish said approach.
I can’t really speak on Fukua cause I haven’t dipped that much into Skullgirls yet, but for Falco, he’s very much a all-rounder/rushdown hybrid imo. Pretty average stats over the board (decent kill power, slightly less average weight, varied speed across both framedata and movement), but with many tools that are meant to allow him to combo and pursue (Melee Falco with shine, dair and nair and Ultimate Falco with nair, up tilt and down tilt/he also has his great jump height to help reach people vertically that many other characters can’t). And then of course his lasers that can both be used offensively and defensively. He can sort of play any game he wants due to how powerful they are as projectiles. Akuma (mainly think Third Strike since I played it the most) is quite similar. Akuma is geared towards rushdown but he also can zone you out with even air fireballs if he wants to.
I think a trait that may have been a good addition would be "level-up" characters, for lack of a better term. These are characters who, either through a special input or some other circumstance, allow themselves to become more powerful as the match goes on. These would be characters like G in Street Fighter V, Frank West in Ultimate Marvel VS. Capcom 3, Adult Gohan and (to a lesser extent) SSG4 Gogeta in Dragon Ball FighterZ, and maaaaaybe Cloud in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
I don't know who the other guy who made a video like this is but I bet he didn't do that sick No More Heroes intro you did for each archetype. Good work!
Here are a few other examples of somewhat common traits, I've got three of them that are sort of branched from the same general concept of what could be called a "setup" character: - Trapper: Characters who place objects on the screen that sit there until a criteria is met (usually either the enemy moving over it or the trapper inputting a move again). The trap is different from a puppet in that the trap, being statically placed, does require a different sort of skill to use effectively compared to a puppet. They could provide passive bonuses, or restrict an opponent's movement, or be used to extend combos, or all of the above. They can either only set one thing up at a time or they can have a fixed number, but one thing that sometimes codifies the Trapper is a lot of the traps, to prevent overuse, often require they spend something to place it, usually cutting off parts of the character's moveset. Examples of trappers would be Doctor Strange from MVC, Menat from SF, Ramlethal from Guilty Gear Xrd, Venom from Gear in general, Carmine and Byakuya from Under Night In-Birth. - Buffer: Characters who have a special move that buffs them either overall or in specific ways. It usually will remain either for a fixed interval or until a criteria is met, usually them being knocked down. It's different from an install super in that their level up is something they always have access to, but it isn't usually as huge a difference unless they come with multiple levels. They usually have somewhat underwhelming movesets without leveling up, and often are limited on specifically zoning options - since the buffing mechanic they have can be used to mitigate zoning by forcing the opponent to approach them or risk fighting a much stronger character. Some examples would be Hakan and G from Street Fighter, Frank West from MVC, Chin from KoF, Raven from Gear, Susano'o from BlazBlue - Ammo: Characters who are similar to a mixture of both of the above, but with a distinctly different gimmick - they need to set up their special moves and lose them on use. They're distinct from the Trapper in that they load their moves and aren't limited in how to use them by locking their position on the stage, and unlike the buffer they only lose their moves after using them. They tend to be more normal characters but come with rather useful specials, which justifies why they need to reload them after use. Some characters use of ammo even lets them get a larger pool of moves compared to other characters. Examples of ammo characters would be Juri from Street Fighter, Dormammu from MVC, Sin from Guilty Gear, and Petra from Arcana Heart. Some of the characters of this type may not even be able to reload their ammo, such as Rin from FUC or Bang from BlazBlue (who mixes Ammo with Trapper)
Wait a minute, did anybody mention KoF? As in " from KoF? Or as in "KoF is a fighting game series developed by SNK which features fighters from earlier videogames of the same company as well as the new additions which would arrive in subsequent installments"?
Great video and definitely helps me classify original Vega from Street Fighter ST. He’s definitely a footsie character I would say, even in SFV with the new Stance Change.
Just wanted to add that a quite normal archetype would be the "counter" character. Is not extremely common since it can become OP, but has been there in the SNK franchises since 1992. The concept for those characters is that, similar to grapplers, the have commands to grab the enemies, but they focus on returning the damage received meaning that instead of starting the action, the react to it. Nowadays, is common to see proyectile reflections and stuff, but we are talking about melee "reflections" here.
Less conventional example of a puppet character; Dust and Ashes from Lethal League Blaze, with the puppeteer being Dust and the puppet being Ashes. Their super sends Ashes out in the direction you're facing and allows him to use any move that your character could normally use while grounded. I'm trying to simplify things here because if I tried explaining it fully it might get confusing for people who aren't familiar with Lethal League Blaze.
Great video! I've been wanting to make a video about Fighting Game archetypes for a while so I've been looking around for what other people have said. This is the best video on YT about the subject imo.
I'd add the counterattacker/responder to the rooster. Ukyo, Asuka, etc. Their skillset revolves around reads&punishes. Another archetype would be the kicker (or any character that's exculively focused on 1 thing while the cast do more.) These would be Steve, Hwarang, Kim of KoF etc. Another one would be the beast. Their moveset often allows them to dash/charge and attack in ways and bodyparts uncommon to other characters. Kuma, Roger jr., Blanca etc. Another one, that's more of a visual trope would be the seducer/charmer. They are usually zoners with status inflict accents.
This is a really nice coverage on the topic! The given examples are overall pretty good too. You did miss one particular archetype, but since it isn't a frequent one, that's understandable. Namely, the "setplay" character. They are referred to as "setplay" because they "set" something and force the opponent to block, then "play" out their mix-up/cross-up game. The most notable examples are Testament from Guilty Gear XX (the special move "zeinst" in particular), Ramlethal Valentine in Guilty Gear Xrd, not Strive (sets up her swords), Kohaku from Melty Blood (sets up animated potted plants which attack), Millia Rage in GG XX and Xrd (her Heavy Slash version of the Tandem Top special move). It's an easy to miss archetype though, because there are fighting games where it doesn't exist at all: Street Fighter, The King of Fighters, Skullgirls, Virtua Fighter, Tekken...
i came up with an archetype system i was really proud of a long time ago. it was Ins, > Mids, > Scrappers, > Ins. first off Scrapper instead of grappler because of dudley and makoto both having and lacking something that makes them not fit properly, dudley is a scrapper, and makoto is an In. the way i define it is "a character who wants to be next to you, and you dont want to be next to them" they want a scrap, let's play rock paper scissor next to each other, haggar and t hawk are the epitome of it, invincible reversal, the fastest moves in the game, keeps moving forwards, struggles in mid range. peach in melee would be another scrapper, and the archetype exists in Boxing, granite chin, throwing haymakers. Ins are characters who choose when they go in, and u have to stop them, theyre fast, their limbs are short, have annoying angles they approach from, and they can play as active as they choose to. exactly the same as your rushdown archetype, magneto, cammy, lomachenko, they overwhelm you with speed. and in the triangle they lose to scrappers, and beat mids. Mids is Marth in melee, Ryu, they win by controlling space, whether with projectiles, or having bigger normals, and you have come to them, you can normally tell a mid immediately because they are the ones moving backwards and throwing buttons out. but i never felt it worth sharing, 1 because setup characters dont really have a place, the ibukis and uriens of sf3 were the first i struggled to place, and 2 as a result i realised like u have, when u struggle to place a character, traits are really the important thing, the playstyle is built around their strongest moves, or strongest assets. how far their moves go, how much chip they can do safely, how far they dash, how fast they dash, how heavy they are, how quick their moves are, if they have a reversal, do they have anti airs, a projectile. it's also more fun from a design angle to think how a character is built around a move, and lets you end up with 50 character rosters rather than 5 to 8.
I loved this video! Always fun to hear breakdowns of the somewhat obtuse fighting game genre. I will say, I think basing some of the traits in the inputs characters use feels a bit too strict of a criteria. In particular, I think of Iori and Geese from KOF XV who are both characters who have Rekkas but do not use a qcf input to do them. A small nitpick but I liked the video so much and noticed no KOF reps so just wanted to point it out
Archetypes you didnt cover that came to mind for me included Set-play characters - characters who have specials or supers designated to helping them in neutral or on oki Re-stand/reset characters - a more extreme version of a rush down character focused purely on unfair mix ups within their own combos (basically all of skull girls) Hyper-Shotos - basically any character designed like ryu but possessing more powerful versions, Akuma being the first hyper shoto has a more powerful fireball and tatsu Counter characters - characters that have most of not all of their specials designed as counter attacks Brawler characters - characters that are similar to rushdown characters but lack the same level of mix up, instead relying on staggers to open up opponents for long grounded damaging combos Sword characters - basically footsies characters but they all use swords Great vid hope you see this
The quintessential footsies character in Smash would have to be Marth. He has long normals but no projectiles. His counter can nullify projectiles and his tipper makes his normals ineffective at close range, requiring him to play a mid-range game to be most effective.
One thing worth considering in the trait section are "power-up" characters who generally start weaker than most characters but can become stronger or significantly stronger upon achieving a condition. There's some overlap with unorthodox characters like Zappa and Phoenix Wright, but characters like Frank West, Cloud + Joker in Smash Bros, Q and G from Street Fighter, and Beowulf from Skullgirls all feature powering up in their game plan. Some of them like SS4 Gogeta and Phoenix Wright have One-hit KO type attacks if you meet their conditions. Note that being weaker may not be a requirement, considering characters like Cloud and Johnny were top tiers in some of their games.
I know there's a big thing in the FGC for "footsies" as a term but I would term that archetype the Fencer. All about managing space and optimizing where the opponent is, at a comfortable distance, not too close or far.
I like how you used the Project X Zone dialogue portraits for 4:44 and 12:44. Also, I like the idea of the footsie archetype. Inking and Greninja from Smash are probably good examples. 25:18 *Judge, not Judgement.
I would say one notable trait that I see a lot in FGs nowadays are the "Level Up" characters. Characters who have an inherent mechanic that makes them stronger through a game. Characters like G from SF, Frank West and Phoenix Wright from MvC3, and so on.
Kinda missed oportynity to mention Siegfried from SoulCalibur in stance category tho. This dude has a pretty huge movelist with different stances. Can say May Lee from KoF also can join them, even though she has only two stances, but it plays entirely different
If I might add you still left another archetype behind, counter type characters like: Rock & Geese Howard from Fatal Fury Series that punish enemies try to attack them. However counter archetype usually doesn't stand on their own more like hybrid. Rock Howard is more of all rounder counter while Geese Howard is more of a zoner counter.
A "strange" example of a puppeteer would be Z.W.E.I from Soul Calibur V, while usually the puppeteers have high control over their puppets, Z.W.E.I kind of... doesn't? Sometimes you have to wait to E.I.N (the puppet) to cooldown, so ZWEI literally won't be able to use it leaving him open for the opponent's attack, and although ZWEI has a short sword to close combat, EIN is the character that does either grabs or distance attacks, I think ZWEI is an interesting character to be considered a puppeteer or a sub class of the puppeteers. I would say that an unorthodox type of character in Tekken is also Zafina, but she also has a lot of stances. Tekken and Soul Calibur have nice characters to think about these classes.
I might be wrong by just having little experience in the game, but I feel like Filia isn’t really a rushdown character in the context of her own game. Skullgirls is generally focused on skill expressive and complex combos, so the game in general has very fast movesets. Even zoners like Peacock and Robo Fortune have devastating long form combo potential. With this in mind, I would call Filia a Shoto All Rounder in a game of Rushdowns.
I'm subscribing in hopes we get more content from you m8, love your voice and accent, also your video felt very well researched, hope to see more in the future.
As a real life martial artist who likes fighting games but isnt too good at them, i just noticed most of this things except the fireballs and other things like that... And in case someone wonders as a martial artist, what archetype am i... Im a stance based fighter with 5 stances... One all rounder (kokutsu dachi) where my rising attack is an ascending wheel kick and my advancing attack is either a 180, 360 or 540 leaping spinning back kick... And for "proyectile" i have nothing tho... But i have a deffensive 180 back kick thatbi use retreating... Another stance is for footsies with a cat stance... Where i use mostly a super foot system based kicks to keep the distance... So, lead side kicks, round kicks and hook kicks, with rear leg kicks as finishers or power attacks... A grappler stance called shiko dachi, where i use mostly walking in strikes with sliding steps or suri ashi... those are pretty slow compared to the others but are "armored strikes" because most strikes cant stop my whole body once its moving in... While in that stance, i use mostly ippon seoi nage, osoto gari, o goshi, ashi barai, morote gari, sukui nage... Or in some cases kata guruma, ura nage, tomoe nage and yoko tomoe nage... However i have counters with tottari, amiuchi, kote nage, wich are all sumi throws... Waki gatame, ude garami, kote gaeshi and kote gatame wich are found in aikido and some in judo too... Another for rushing in wich is a modified version of peek a boo boxing, where i usually rush im while slipping punches, and when im close enough i do a jolt punch, or walking in punch, usually with either a gyaku tsuki or oi tsuki attack and as soon as i strike i do a pendulum step arround, similar to a gazelle punch but trying to get the oponent back... The closest thing to teleportation in real life... And a "floating stance" (bouncing in place like some taekwondo and karate styles) where i also rush but in a "zoner" way... Because i do mostly a bunch of acrobatic kicks that cover a large area in front of me, so my oponent has to either step back or eat my whole bodyweight being swing at them with my ridiculously giantic legs(i weight about 80kg, but my upper body is the size of a 50kg fighter... 60 at most... So, the extra 20 to 30 kg are on my thighs and calves... I actually had the biggest calves at the gym i went to... Wich included 2 male heavy weight fighters and a male body builder) And, my "playstyle" is to use combos to change stances... So, if i finish a combo in a specific technique, i finish in a specific stance... I think i would be a fun to play but over comolicated character if i was in a videogame... But probably would have slightly low damage output for normal attacks, normal damage output with special attacks, slightly above average speed, and the lowest health ever... like... Single average damage output power atack drops me kind of low health... Oh, and probably would
In the traits section I think you could have put these 3: mix up characters that are really focused on mix ups even more than rush down and also gimmick characters , even tho most of the time they're the unorthodox character but still I think there is enough exceptions to have another trait and joke characters.
I wished you would mention "JoJo HFTF"/"Jojoban" (an amazing jojo fighting game thats not all that popular), so here's my opinion on what archetypes each character has (High to Low tier order): Old Kakyoin (banned competitively) - Puppet, Stance, Zoner/Rushdown (yes, that's a thing) Pet Shop (banned competitively) - Zoner, Unorthodox, UNBLOCKABLE, UNREASONABLE V. Ice - Stance, Rushdown, Unorthodox Polnareff - Stance, Rushdown Jotaro - Stance, Rekka, Rushdown Avdol - Stance, Zoner New Kakyoin - Puppet, Stance, Zoner/Rushdown (Slightly worse O.Kak.) DIO - Stance, Rushdown/Zoner (more leaning towards rushdown), Unorthodox(?) Chaka - Stance, (Defensive?) Rushdown Devo - MAJOR Puppet Midler - Footsie, Stance, Zoner/Rushdown, Unorthodox(?) Shadow DIO (yes, there's another one) - Zoner/Rushdown, Unorthodox, Puppet (?) Alessi - Zoner, UNORTHODOX, Stance Iggy - Zoner/Rushdown, Charge, Stance, Footsie Rubber Soul - Grappler(?), Zoner, Stance Hol Horse - Zoner/Rushdown (leaning towards zoner), unorthodox Old Joseph - Shoto(?), Grappler, Stance Black Polnareff - Rushdown, Unorthodox Young Joseph - Shoto, Zoner/Rushdown, Footsie Khan - Shit, Rushdown, Unfinished SOMEHOW Hoingo - Zoner, Unorthodox (???) Mariah - Trap Zoner, Rushdown If anything I said sounded wack or out of place, lmk!!!
Good video. When you were talking about ranges of Zoners, I was thinking (my mains) SF4 Vega or (lesser degree) ST Dictator. Then you went into footsie characters. But actually Karin in SF5 is probably the best (or at least recognizable) example of that type of character.
I’m assuming he showed Baiken at the end since she’s commonly referred to as a “parry character” and that’s an archetype/trait he didn’t touch on, although it’s understandable since it’s literally just in the name, there’s not much else to say about it than that. I can’t really think of any other archetype or trait that he didn’t touch on asides like the clone/copy characters such as Double from Skullgirls. Only problem is it’s kind of hard to define their archetype, only the trait is distinguishable. At least for me since I’ve never really seen the character in action. If anyone knows how they play let me know! A joke character is another too but they more so fall into the unorthodox category instead.
I love how Karin is just a Tekken Character. Like that's the beginner Tekken character. Command attack grabs. Works in footsie range. Annoys you with pokes and can't zone given that Tekken doesn't operate at all at long range even with 2d characters After saying all of that, I was like that's a Tekken character lol
I think puppet characters count as an archetype as they do typically have a unique game plan. to get the opponent sandwiched between their entities. puppet characters typically don't have great combos or offense unless they can make this happen. I also would consider characters whose gameplan is to Touch of Death the opponent as another archetype. these characters tend to be fragile and very evasive but once they land a hit they can combo an entire health bar away. Lastly i would consider defensive/parry characters whose gameplan is to bait or catch the opponent and steal turns. they're similar to your definition of footsies characters but a little more nuanced in that their parry is needed to start offense rather than just for defensive, ironic as that sounds.
Wait, what about the mobile grappler? I.E. grapplers who's command grabs aren't insane but they also have the ability to close the distance much faster than normal grapplers. An example would be wrestler kirby from kirby fighters 2. He can close the distance much faster due to everyone being a kirby. Or what about Beowulf from skullgirls? He has a high jump, his wolf shoot, and the ability to throw out his chair to close the distance between him and his enemies
I've heard that word thrown around a bit, but it didn't seem to be a clearly defined trait besides 'beefy character that gets in your face and has a command grab'.
Just gonna throw my 2 cents in: I think there is a difference between Stance characters and Mode Change characters. They are definitely related, kind of like how Rushdown and Rekka characters are related, but when I think of Stance characters I think of characters that are giving up significant portions of their moveset and even basic system mechanics to gain access to a narrower range of very strong moves. For example, Leo can't block while in stance, Yuzuriha can't block and has her basic movement heavily limited, Hit and Kagura can't move at all during their stances, stuff like that. I see characters like Zeku as different because each of his stances or Modes, as I would call them, are functionally feature complete characters. He's alternating what his strengths are, but he isn't losing access to basic system mechanics or a full moveset. Characters like Valkenhayn or Aigis blur the lines between these categories. They have modes/stances that concentrate on high mobility, but might limit movesets or blocking like Valkenhayn, and lock the mode/stance behind a resource to help balance having the strengths of both a Mode Change and a Stance character. Also, Resource characters are a really cool trait. Characters that have an extra resource, like Happy Chaos or Eltnum's bullets, that allow them above average damage/pressure/zoning/whatever but only for a limited time. When it runs out they have to either spend time to replenish it, or may just lose out on that extra strength for the rest of the round. Most puppet characters also qualify as resource characters, like Carl, Relius, or Zato.
Level-Up Characters would be another Trait to add. Characters like Frank West, G, Phoenix Wright, who have to achieve certain conditions to gain access to more powerful attaks.
Great video! That archetypes video was my first scripted video I made, and there's a LOT I wish i could change, and this pretty much addressed all my gripes with my own video!
Why has no one replied
@@N24-z5r Because no one wants to
@@N24-z5r reply for what?
There is a category that doesn't get pointed out so often that I call "Wizard" or "Mod" characters. These aren't wizards in terms of their design but they have tools that would be considered a glitch relative to the framework that the rest of the cast sits in. Faust and Bedman are good examples of this in Guilty Gear. Many Puppet characters and Composite characters are a sub class of the "Mod" category. To be clear, "Mod" characters may not have teleports, composite or puppets...it's that they have some mechanic that sits outside of the framework that all other characters must obey.
@@danielm5161 I've never heard of this archetype before. Aren't these guys just unorthodox characters?
I always just called the "footsie characters" midrange characters.
I know them as midrange zoners.
always just called them honest characters
@@SinisterSally Yah it bassicly a mix of the All-rounder, Zoner and rushdown. (exemple Karin got quite alot of rushdown skill dash and mix-up her skill that got a grab is a mix-up.) Overall the footsie is kinda in the midle of the 3 arctype in my opinion.
That's not nearly as kinky tho
@@googleisacruelmistress1910 LOL
16:51
why do people always get surprised when the defense attorney is abnormally durable?
It's probably because he is the most normal dude on the roster in terms of who they are. Phoenix is just a lawyer after all
@@piranhaplant8483 who gets whipped, burned, tazzed, and chocked on a common basis
@@memeinatorun-official144 That's true, I suppose. On that topic, he also got hit by a car I believe
@@memeinatorun-official144 has he been hit by a meteorite too?
@@piranhaplant8483 got ran over and flied up but walked away unscathed... Until he slipped and hurt his leg
Also fell several feet into a ravine when a bridge collapsed and only suffered a cold
I love the separation of archetype and traits. Many people seem to conflate a characters movelist with their archetype, without determining the main gameplan that character executes. Ken and Sagat both have uppercuts, fireballs, and a forward moving special, but Sagat is a zoner and Ken is rushdown. Great vid man.
Ken is famous for being a shoto/rush hybrid 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. I’m watching a lot of these videos and seeing literally no one knows shit.
18:10
To add on to Ice Climbers, although you can desync their attacks allowing for really interesting combos, the secondary climber will always try to get close to the primary climber whenever possible, which isn’t exactly how a puppet character works.
Great video!
my only comment is in the Rekka section was to bring up the idea that Rekka characters have mixups based on "are they going to do the whole rekka or not" and would have been a nice inclusion. thanks again for the great video
Great video. This is probably the best of the recent spate of character archetype videos, and much better than Leon Massey's video (ironic, considering he pushed for those videos in the first place).
I really agree with your definitions, and I like the way you categorized your information into broad archetypes and traits, since that's how a lot of characters are designed in the modern age. Even simple fighting games don't have characters whose entire gameplans are "good fireballs, bad close range" or "good close range, bad long range" because those characters just aren't that stimulating to play unless the game is super broken/deep like Super Turbo. I especially think the footsies archetype solves a lot of the inherent problems that come from the typical shoto/grappler/rushdown/zoner categories.
I'll definitely be showing this video to my friends/other fighting game players. It's criminal how few subscribers and views you have considering the effort you put into your videos.
As for archetypes/traits you didn't discuss, there are a few that I think are worth mentioning:
- Summoner: similar to puppet characters, but they summon "fire and forget" allies or call assists rather than controlling two things at once directly.
- Setplay/vortex/prison: characters who are very good at forcing their opponents into mixup situations and then looping those mixup situations. There are definitely shades of this in SF, but SFV has been very clearly designed to limit looping mixup situations. I'd say throw loop situations were the closest SFV ever truly got to setplay like you'd find in an airdasher or tag game. SF4 Fuerte and Ibuki were also quite good at doing this, but given the prevalence of hard knockdowns and unblockables in that game there were many other characters who could do it too.
(I'm actually making a video on this topic, but that will take a while to be published.)
- "Snapping turtle"/defensive: characters who have some kind of unique defensive mechanic that allows them to challenge/escape situations other characters can't. I can only really think of Baiken in GG and Yoshimitsu in Tekken 7 (because his Flash move is so fast it allows him to challenge/punish things nobody else can), so this is probably more of a trait than an archetype. Slayer has shades of this because of how his BDCs work.
looking forward to that vortex character video
Much better than Leon Massey's for sure, his reasoning was strange and didn't make a lot of sense.
Don't forget pseudo-grapplers, characters who excell at enforcing strike/throw mixups, but usually as part of a larger kit than a traditional grappler
Urien in SFV I think is a good example of a Setplay character. He can create some really dirty mixup situations with his V-Trigger 1 and V-Skill 2 that bounce the opponent around and make juggles that leave you unexpectedly standing on a random side if he ends with forward MP
He also briefly touched on this, but trappers aka the characters whose toolkit revolves around setting up traps that the opponent has to carefully navigate around to get to the trapping character or to escape their pressure. Definitely should've been expanded upon because it's a fairly common trait in many fighting games and a pretty varied one too (eg. both Rachel and Kokonoe from BlazBlue can be classified as trappers but their gameplans are completely different).
Also, as another example of a defensive character: Hakumen. He usually prefers harassing his opponents with his huge pokes and he doesn't like to get in - instead he waits for his opponent to come to him and punishes their mistakes with his oppressive counters and massive burst damage. Adding to that, he's the only character in the game who builds meter passively so he has no reason to want to get in and the opponent is constantly urged to finish him off as quickly as possible before he gets access to his most dangerous tools.
He can also cut projectiles, leaving behind a huge hitbox in their place, so zoning him out isn't as simple as it may initially seem.
This is about the best take I've seen on this topic so far. Excellently presented, well edited, and not a boring moment throughout.
I would have thrown in "Charge" characters to the trait list, eg, characters whose gameplan is very heavily dominated by movesets with (typically) directional button holds. Examples being Guile, Urien, Remy, Falke and Sabrewulf(?). It's notable because said gameplans usually keep them fairly stationary unless they employ certain (sometimes game specific) movement to retain their charges while advancing.
Not applicable to all games, but the limitation on *how* they perform their typical special moves generally pushes them more towards certain styles of play.
I originally considered Charge characters when making the script, but I felt like talking about them would mean having to make a section on Motion characters as well, which I didn't think was worth talking about (which in hindsight is kinda dumb reasoning lol). I also tried to focus on traits that had several aspects that wouldn't be immediately obvious, or in the case of the Rekka trait, traits with names that don't give newcomers any clue on what they do.
You make a good point about how charge inputs affect a character's movement. I hadn't really considered how a character's movement is affected by having to charge frequently, though characters like Alex and Urien in SF5 are more active and less reliant on charging than more stationary characters like Honda or F.A.N.G.
For charge characters the best example is TOTSUGEKI from GG:strive
Saberwulf has charge moves, like his Back Heavy in KI 2013, but he’s more of a rush down character.
@@shigekisun3922
Ash from kof 13 is also a really good example.
@@shigekisun3922 GG* not just strive.
Corollary to the Big Body trait: Small Body. SSB is one of the few series I've seen that's been very playful with regards to the size and dimensions of the character, but I've definitely seen Small Body characters in other fighting games, too.
I'm a little surprised you didn't go into the deeper gameplay implications of a Big Body character. What's most important about them is that their hurtboxes are also larger and generally wider, meaning air options that would whiff smaller characters coming over and behind them would barely nick Big Body characters and register a hit, crouching as a Big Body wouldn't let you low profile as many moves as you'd be able to as other characters, certain combos which might whiff other characters could connect better with Big Body characters due to larger and wider hurtboxes. Hell, against Big Body characters, air options in general can be more dangerous because anti-air options might strike much higher for Big Body characters than average, and since Big Body characters literally control more space than average characters, they can start combos and keep their opponents deep within their own hitboxes rather than fearing knockback like you might with other characters.
Well said. They're also more exposed to hits while laying on the ground, making for easier and longer combos. (Tekkenfor instance.)
I disagree with a few parts, but for the most part this was a really well done video!
Prime example of a Rekka characters is the queen of rekkas herself, Angel from King of Fighters. Her rekkas by themselves are as long as some characters entire move lists and can feed back into each other or feinted as needed. She's considered one of the hardest and most technical characters in the franchise.
What about characters that utilize a resource other than the standard super meter like Sin from GG? They have a unique play style that require them to pause and recharge in order for them to do anything significant.
Smash has quite a few of those - Kirby (Copy Abilities), Olimar (Pikmin), Little Mac (Power Meter), Robin (weapon durability), Cloud (Limit Gauge), Inkling (ink tank), Joker (Rebellion Gauge), Hero (MP), Banjo & Kazooie (Golden Feathers, sort of), and Steve (materials).
I'd argue that those characters fit under a different "trait" as explained by the video, but they do not have vastly different playstyles than the archetypes mentioned. I mainly play Killer Instinct though which has characters that fit the these archetypes such as Eagle (his zoning capabilites are limited by the arrow resource) or Maya (whose daggers need to be retrieved after throwing them and mainly fits a rushdown playstyle which is aided by her unblockable projectiles) so I'm not too sure about Guilty Gear characters sorry.
I've already come up with a name for that trait: "Resource Manager"
@@seanmyster6 hmm
@@MrAuthor3DS As a Smash player myself, I'd divide that list into two main types of resources.
Core Resources and Comeback Resources.
Core Resources (Olimar, Robin, Inkling, Hero and Steeve) are resources that are used extensively throughout an entire fight, and are typically required to have for the character to do anything significant.
Comeback Resources (Lucario, Little Mac, Cloud, Joker, Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya) are resources that are accumulated over the course of a fight to be used for a single high power attack or a powered up state.
I like how you briefly show Smash clips sparcely... Subconsciously telling us you accept it as a fighting game, but not completely.
“Morrigan from MVC3”
*cries in darkstalkers*
Actually I said "Morrigan IN Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3". I know that Morrigan is a Darkstalkers character first and foremost, I just figured using her MVC3 incarnation would be more recognizable to viewers.
@@Hydro_236 as long as you know where she's really from lolll. Considering this video is for new fg people I understand your decision good sir. Beautiful content and thank you for continuing to the fighting game world🤜💥🤛💫💪🤝
I've been playing fighting games fairly casually since I rented SF2 on my snes about 25 years ago on a whim. I didn't really learn anything but I really liked how you laid out a whole lot of information we all probably intuitively know and put it all into context. I really appreciate how you laid out the main archetypes and variants; I think it will help a ton of people with the terminology and the philosphies they embody. Keep up the good work
The production is top notch and you sound like a very natural speaker!
You showed off Under-Night characters so often but never mentioned them by name :'(
Firstly: Any time anyone uses the No More Heroes boss introduction voice, I’m immediately on board with what the video is about
Secondly: I will always love the fact that one of if not the first ever puppet fighter in a fighting game is Devo from Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Heritage for the Future
I like your definition of "footsies" characters! That perfectly epitomizes the sort of characters I like to main-characters that don't have the full-screen harassment abilities of true zoners, but rather focus on controlling the mid-range with big, disjointed normals.
I fucking love the No More Heroes transitions, just earned a subscriber for that alone. Can’t wait for more content dude!
This is an AMAZING video, very well thought-out and entertaining in addition to being informative. Well done! I do have a somewhat minor gripe though...At the beginning of the video you specifically bring up "composite characters" as a an example of a character trait that's not inherent to an archetype, but then later in the traits section you neglect to bring it up again. I think it would have been great to talk about composites again as a way of rounding out the video, just discussing what sort of archetypes composite characters can fill with their movesets and showing that a trait can play into an archetype, but not be beholden to it, and vice versa.
Thank you for your feedback! Honestly, that's a great idea and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it myself! I thought that I had said all that I needed to say about Composite characters at the beginning of the video, but in hindsight, I really should have included them in the traits section. I've gained a lot more insight on fighting game character design in the past 2 years as well, so if I had made this video now then I would easily have more stuff to say about Composite characters. I'll be sure to keep your advice in mind for future videos!
the No More Heroes transitions... [chef kiss]
_beautiful_
Awesome vid! I think you missed out on 2 archetypes, Charge characters and Counter characters. Charge characters being ones that require to charge up their specials, preferably able to mix up their delivery when the Charge is complete. Counter characters like Baiken and Hakumen create openings by using strong defensive options that can reward a correct prediction of what their opponent will do
Brad Wong from Dead or Alive is apparently categorized as a trick character due to his drunken style (ex: he can attack while lying down). Does that count as "unorthodox" or "mix-up" as defined by eddventure's video?
The NMH intros work so well, great choice for presentation
Damn dude found your channel right now. I love watching fighting games related documentarys idk what i should call these videos. :D Thank you the videos.
Along with the video by the Edd guy, how come KOF characters are not mentioned?
I don't play fighting games but I really enjoy videos like this~
KOF has some differences on commands and how certain types of attacks work (for example, a lot of characters have "hadouken likes" that run throught the floor, so you have to crouch defend instead of just defending) so people prefer to analize KOF games separately.
@@TheAzulon Makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it!
Personally it was a lack of knowledge & experience with KOF games, but also from reading up on how characters play in KOF, I got the impression that characters play largely the same and don't follow many different archetypes. I could be wrong about that though.
@@Hydro_236 IMO most of them plays like Fei Long from SF to me. Plus they got this 2button dodge so perhaps that's a different mechanic. There's grapplers like Clark etc too.
Appreciate the reply! Really nice video!
Holy crap the NMH intros actually gave me chills. Extremely well done!
Another character trait would be setup characters like testament from gg and cyrax/ joker from mk. Characters who create mixups with traps and weird projectiles instead of normal and special moves. Great video btw
I think that falls under trap zoners.
@@stuisp yeah most of them are but for instance joker from mk doesn’t really zone, he has some big buttons but that’s about it. I’d say it’s more of a trait that can apply to characters, mostly zoners.
this video is exactly what i was looking for thank you. If only i had seen this video 2 years ago when i was trying to figure out why Karin was so different
There is a weird archetype I've seen often that seems to combine an oppresive projectile, a strong punish game and lots of mixups. Fukua from skullgirls and Falco from smash bros are some examples, and their general gameplan is to force the opponent to approach them so they can punish said approach.
I can’t really speak on Fukua cause I haven’t dipped that much into Skullgirls yet, but for Falco, he’s very much a all-rounder/rushdown hybrid imo.
Pretty average stats over the board (decent kill power, slightly less average weight, varied speed across both framedata and movement), but with many tools that are meant to allow him to combo and pursue (Melee Falco with shine, dair and nair and Ultimate Falco with nair, up tilt and down tilt/he also has his great jump height to help reach people vertically that many other characters can’t). And then of course his lasers that can both be used offensively and defensively. He can sort of play any game he wants due to how powerful they are as projectiles.
Akuma (mainly think Third Strike since I played it the most) is quite similar. Akuma is geared towards rushdown but he also can zone you out with even air fireballs if he wants to.
I think a trait that may have been a good addition would be "level-up" characters, for lack of a better term. These are characters who, either through a special input or some other circumstance, allow themselves to become more powerful as the match goes on. These would be characters like G in Street Fighter V, Frank West in Ultimate Marvel VS. Capcom 3, Adult Gohan and (to a lesser extent) SSG4 Gogeta in Dragon Ball FighterZ, and maaaaaybe Cloud in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
I don't know who the other guy who made a video like this is but I bet he didn't do that sick No More Heroes intro you did for each archetype. Good work!
I love the NMH transitions and the video, good job and keep it up
Does the "Reversal" character count as an archetype?
That perfectly cut scream on the Alex Valle match
Here are a few other examples of somewhat common traits, I've got three of them that are sort of branched from the same general concept of what could be called a "setup" character:
- Trapper: Characters who place objects on the screen that sit there until a criteria is met (usually either the enemy moving over it or the trapper inputting a move again). The trap is different from a puppet in that the trap, being statically placed, does require a different sort of skill to use effectively compared to a puppet. They could provide passive bonuses, or restrict an opponent's movement, or be used to extend combos, or all of the above. They can either only set one thing up at a time or they can have a fixed number, but one thing that sometimes codifies the Trapper is a lot of the traps, to prevent overuse, often require they spend something to place it, usually cutting off parts of the character's moveset. Examples of trappers would be Doctor Strange from MVC, Menat from SF, Ramlethal from Guilty Gear Xrd, Venom from Gear in general, Carmine and Byakuya from Under Night In-Birth.
- Buffer: Characters who have a special move that buffs them either overall or in specific ways. It usually will remain either for a fixed interval or until a criteria is met, usually them being knocked down. It's different from an install super in that their level up is something they always have access to, but it isn't usually as huge a difference unless they come with multiple levels. They usually have somewhat underwhelming movesets without leveling up, and often are limited on specifically zoning options - since the buffing mechanic they have can be used to mitigate zoning by forcing the opponent to approach them or risk fighting a much stronger character. Some examples would be Hakan and G from Street Fighter, Frank West from MVC, Chin from KoF, Raven from Gear, Susano'o from BlazBlue
- Ammo: Characters who are similar to a mixture of both of the above, but with a distinctly different gimmick - they need to set up their special moves and lose them on use. They're distinct from the Trapper in that they load their moves and aren't limited in how to use them by locking their position on the stage, and unlike the buffer they only lose their moves after using them. They tend to be more normal characters but come with rather useful specials, which justifies why they need to reload them after use. Some characters use of ammo even lets them get a larger pool of moves compared to other characters. Examples of ammo characters would be Juri from Street Fighter, Dormammu from MVC, Sin from Guilty Gear, and Petra from Arcana Heart. Some of the characters of this type may not even be able to reload their ammo, such as Rin from FUC or Bang from BlazBlue (who mixes Ammo with Trapper)
Wait a minute, did anybody mention KoF? As in " from KoF? Or as in "KoF is a fighting game series developed by SNK which features fighters from earlier videogames of the same company as well as the new additions which would arrive in subsequent installments"?
A 2nd Impact theme and a No More Heroes' reference? This video is too good...
Great video and definitely helps me classify original Vega from Street Fighter ST. He’s definitely a footsie character I would say, even in SFV with the new Stance Change.
Just wanted to add that a quite normal archetype would be the "counter" character. Is not extremely common since it can become OP, but has been there in the SNK franchises since 1992.
The concept for those characters is that, similar to grapplers, the have commands to grab the enemies, but they focus on returning the damage received meaning that instead of starting the action, the react to it. Nowadays, is common to see proyectile reflections and stuff, but we are talking about melee "reflections" here.
When I'm playing a game where you can pick a character I still refer to the middle of the road, no strengths or weaknesses characters as 'Ryu'.
Coming from a Smash background where these terms aren't used as much, this really helped to understand fighting games better. Liked and subbed!
NMH transitions were dope as hell
*What is Kirby from SSBU?*
Rushdown.
The effort in this video really shows man, it’s worth admiring. Keep it up :)
Less conventional example of a puppet character; Dust and Ashes from Lethal League Blaze, with the puppeteer being Dust and the puppet being Ashes. Their super sends Ashes out in the direction you're facing and allows him to use any move that your character could normally use while grounded. I'm trying to simplify things here because if I tried explaining it fully it might get confusing for people who aren't familiar with Lethal League Blaze.
Great video! I've been wanting to make a video about Fighting Game archetypes for a while so I've been looking around for what other people have said. This is the best video on YT about the subject imo.
I'd add the counterattacker/responder to the rooster. Ukyo, Asuka, etc. Their skillset revolves around reads&punishes.
Another archetype would be the kicker (or any character that's exculively focused on 1 thing while the cast do more.) These would be Steve, Hwarang, Kim of KoF etc.
Another one would be the beast. Their moveset often allows them to dash/charge and attack in ways and bodyparts uncommon to other characters. Kuma, Roger jr., Blanca etc.
Another one, that's more of a visual trope would be the seducer/charmer. They are usually zoners with status inflict accents.
This is a really nice coverage on the topic! The given examples are overall pretty good too. You did miss one particular archetype, but since it isn't a frequent one, that's understandable. Namely, the "setplay" character. They are referred to as "setplay" because they "set" something and force the opponent to block, then "play" out their mix-up/cross-up game. The most notable examples are Testament from Guilty Gear XX (the special move "zeinst" in particular), Ramlethal Valentine in Guilty Gear Xrd, not Strive (sets up her swords), Kohaku from Melty Blood (sets up animated potted plants which attack), Millia Rage in GG XX and Xrd (her Heavy Slash version of the Tandem Top special move). It's an easy to miss archetype though, because there are fighting games where it doesn't exist at all: Street Fighter, The King of Fighters, Skullgirls, Virtua Fighter, Tekken...
This video is awesome! Clearly spoken, great information, good editing, keep it up dude!
Try watching this video at night in a dark room if you don’t want eyes anymore
i came up with an archetype system i was really proud of a long time ago. it was Ins, > Mids, > Scrappers, > Ins.
first off Scrapper instead of grappler because of dudley and makoto both having and lacking something that makes them not fit properly, dudley is a scrapper, and makoto is an In. the way i define it is "a character who wants to be next to you, and you dont want to be next to them" they want a scrap, let's play rock paper scissor next to each other, haggar and t hawk are the epitome of it, invincible reversal, the fastest moves in the game, keeps moving forwards, struggles in mid range. peach in melee would be another scrapper, and the archetype exists in Boxing, granite chin, throwing haymakers.
Ins are characters who choose when they go in, and u have to stop them, theyre fast, their limbs are short, have annoying angles they approach from, and they can play as active as they choose to. exactly the same as your rushdown archetype, magneto, cammy, lomachenko, they overwhelm you with speed. and in the triangle they lose to scrappers, and beat mids.
Mids is Marth in melee, Ryu, they win by controlling space, whether with projectiles, or having bigger normals, and you have come to them, you can normally tell a mid immediately because they are the ones moving backwards and throwing buttons out.
but i never felt it worth sharing, 1 because setup characters dont really have a place, the ibukis and uriens of sf3 were the first i struggled to place, and 2 as a result i realised like u have, when u struggle to place a character, traits are really the important thing, the playstyle is built around their strongest moves, or strongest assets. how far their moves go, how much chip they can do safely, how far they dash, how fast they dash, how heavy they are, how quick their moves are, if they have a reversal, do they have anti airs, a projectile. it's also more fun from a design angle to think how a character is built around a move, and lets you end up with 50 character rosters rather than 5 to 8.
My favourite archetype is the crazy character that just pulls out random bullshit and is basically just a walking meme.
So Faust?
I loved this video! Always fun to hear breakdowns of the somewhat obtuse fighting game genre. I will say, I think basing some of the traits in the inputs characters use feels a bit too strict of a criteria.
In particular, I think of Iori and Geese from KOF XV who are both characters who have Rekkas but do not use a qcf input to do them.
A small nitpick but I liked the video so much and noticed no KOF reps so just wanted to point it out
No More Heroes character intro for your categories is based. Instant sub. +1
Archetypes you didnt cover that came to mind for me included
Set-play characters - characters who have specials or supers designated to helping them in neutral or on oki
Re-stand/reset characters - a more extreme version of a rush down character focused purely on unfair mix ups within their own combos (basically all of skull girls)
Hyper-Shotos - basically any character designed like ryu but possessing more powerful versions, Akuma being the first hyper shoto has a more powerful fireball and tatsu
Counter characters - characters that have most of not all of their specials designed as counter attacks
Brawler characters - characters that are similar to rushdown characters but lack the same level of mix up, instead relying on staggers to open up opponents for long grounded damaging combos
Sword characters - basically footsies characters but they all use swords
Great vid hope you see this
The quintessential footsies character in Smash would have to be Marth. He has long normals but no projectiles. His counter can nullify projectiles and his tipper makes his normals ineffective at close range, requiring him to play a mid-range game to be most effective.
You didn't mention the entire roster of P4A for puppet characters? Dang, hurts to be forgotten.
Boxer characters deserve their own video tbh
tank you a lot, im starting to plan a new figthing game and needed more clear guide lines than the ones i had in mind for characters
I think the fighters that I typically enjoy playing as regardless of the fighting game I'm playing consist of Footsies, Zoners and Shotos.
One thing worth considering in the trait section are "power-up" characters who generally start weaker than most characters but can become stronger or significantly stronger upon achieving a condition. There's some overlap with unorthodox characters like Zappa and Phoenix Wright, but characters like Frank West, Cloud + Joker in Smash Bros, Q and G from Street Fighter, and Beowulf from Skullgirls all feature powering up in their game plan. Some of them like SS4 Gogeta and Phoenix Wright have One-hit KO type attacks if you meet their conditions.
Note that being weaker may not be a requirement, considering characters like Cloud and Johnny were top tiers in some of their games.
I know there's a big thing in the FGC for "footsies" as a term but I would term that archetype the Fencer. All about managing space and optimizing where the opponent is, at a comfortable distance, not too close or far.
Also Marth is the poster boy for that playstyle. Finesse and pokes at a judged range.
I like how you used the Project X Zone dialogue portraits for 4:44 and 12:44.
Also, I like the idea of the footsie archetype. Inking and Greninja from Smash are probably good examples.
25:18 *Judge, not Judgement.
I would say one notable trait that I see a lot in FGs nowadays are the "Level Up" characters. Characters who have an inherent mechanic that makes them stronger through a game. Characters like G from SF, Frank West and Phoenix Wright from MvC3, and so on.
Yukiko Amagi comes to mind (Persona Arena/BBTAG), she is like what you said + Zoner
Adult Gohan in DBFZ. Every use of his level 1 super enhances / adds moves or gives him something else like an extra airdash
Kinda missed oportynity to mention Siegfried from SoulCalibur in stance category tho. This dude has a pretty huge movelist with different stances. Can say May Lee from KoF also can join them, even though she has only two stances, but it plays entirely different
If I might add you still left another archetype behind, counter type characters like: Rock & Geese Howard from Fatal Fury Series that punish enemies try to attack them. However counter archetype usually doesn't stand on their own more like hybrid. Rock Howard is more of all rounder counter while Geese Howard is more of a zoner counter.
A "strange" example of a puppeteer would be Z.W.E.I from Soul Calibur V, while usually the puppeteers have high control over their puppets, Z.W.E.I kind of... doesn't? Sometimes you have to wait to E.I.N (the puppet) to cooldown, so ZWEI literally won't be able to use it leaving him open for the opponent's attack, and although ZWEI has a short sword to close combat, EIN is the character that does either grabs or distance attacks, I think ZWEI is an interesting character to be considered a puppeteer or a sub class of the puppeteers.
I would say that an unorthodox type of character in Tekken is also Zafina, but she also has a lot of stances.
Tekken and Soul Calibur have nice characters to think about these classes.
I might be wrong by just having little experience in the game, but I feel like Filia isn’t really a rushdown character in the context of her own game. Skullgirls is generally focused on skill expressive and complex combos, so the game in general has very fast movesets. Even zoners like Peacock and Robo Fortune have devastating long form combo potential. With this in mind, I would call Filia a Shoto All Rounder in a game of Rushdowns.
I'm subscribing in hopes we get more content from you m8, love your voice and accent, also your video felt very well researched, hope to see more in the future.
i expected a similar intro to what you did with the archetypes
Love the no more Heros reference
As a real life martial artist who likes fighting games but isnt too good at them, i just noticed most of this things except the fireballs and other things like that...
And in case someone wonders as a martial artist, what archetype am i...
Im a stance based fighter with 5 stances... One all rounder (kokutsu dachi) where my rising attack is an ascending wheel kick and my advancing attack is either a 180, 360 or 540 leaping spinning back kick... And for "proyectile" i have nothing tho... But i have a deffensive 180 back kick thatbi use retreating... Another stance is for footsies with a cat stance... Where i use mostly a super foot system based kicks to keep the distance... So, lead side kicks, round kicks and hook kicks, with rear leg kicks as finishers or power attacks... A grappler stance called shiko dachi, where i use mostly walking in strikes with sliding steps or suri ashi... those are pretty slow compared to the others but are "armored strikes" because most strikes cant stop my whole body once its moving in... While in that stance, i use mostly ippon seoi nage, osoto gari, o goshi, ashi barai, morote gari, sukui nage... Or in some cases kata guruma, ura nage, tomoe nage and yoko tomoe nage... However i have counters with tottari, amiuchi, kote nage, wich are all sumi throws... Waki gatame, ude garami, kote gaeshi and kote gatame wich are found in aikido and some in judo too... Another for rushing in wich is a modified version of peek a boo boxing, where i usually rush im while slipping punches, and when im close enough i do a jolt punch, or walking in punch, usually with either a gyaku tsuki or oi tsuki attack and as soon as i strike i do a pendulum step arround, similar to a gazelle punch but trying to get the oponent back... The closest thing to teleportation in real life... And a "floating stance" (bouncing in place like some taekwondo and karate styles) where i also rush but in a "zoner" way... Because i do mostly a bunch of acrobatic kicks that cover a large area in front of me, so my oponent has to either step back or eat my whole bodyweight being swing at them with my ridiculously giantic legs(i weight about 80kg, but my upper body is the size of a 50kg fighter... 60 at most... So, the extra 20 to 30 kg are on my thighs and calves... I actually had the biggest calves at the gym i went to... Wich included 2 male heavy weight fighters and a male body builder)
And, my "playstyle" is to use combos to change stances... So, if i finish a combo in a specific technique, i finish in a specific stance... I think i would be a fun to play but over comolicated character if i was in a videogame... But probably would have slightly low damage output for normal attacks, normal damage output with special attacks, slightly above average speed, and the lowest health ever... like... Single average damage output power atack drops me kind of low health...
Oh, and probably would
Me and the charge gang waiting to be featured in the next part.
In the traits section I think you could have put these 3: mix up characters that are really focused on mix ups even more than rush down and also gimmick characters , even tho most of the time they're the unorthodox character but still I think there is enough exceptions to have another trait and joke characters.
I wished you would mention "JoJo HFTF"/"Jojoban" (an amazing jojo fighting game thats not all that popular), so here's my opinion on what archetypes each character has (High to Low tier order):
Old Kakyoin (banned competitively) - Puppet, Stance, Zoner/Rushdown (yes, that's a thing)
Pet Shop (banned competitively) - Zoner, Unorthodox, UNBLOCKABLE, UNREASONABLE
V. Ice - Stance, Rushdown, Unorthodox
Polnareff - Stance, Rushdown
Jotaro - Stance, Rekka, Rushdown
Avdol - Stance, Zoner
New Kakyoin - Puppet, Stance, Zoner/Rushdown (Slightly worse O.Kak.)
DIO - Stance, Rushdown/Zoner (more leaning towards rushdown), Unorthodox(?)
Chaka - Stance, (Defensive?) Rushdown
Devo - MAJOR Puppet
Midler - Footsie, Stance, Zoner/Rushdown, Unorthodox(?)
Shadow DIO (yes, there's another one) - Zoner/Rushdown, Unorthodox, Puppet (?)
Alessi - Zoner, UNORTHODOX, Stance
Iggy - Zoner/Rushdown, Charge, Stance, Footsie
Rubber Soul - Grappler(?), Zoner, Stance
Hol Horse - Zoner/Rushdown (leaning towards zoner), unorthodox
Old Joseph - Shoto(?), Grappler, Stance
Black Polnareff - Rushdown, Unorthodox
Young Joseph - Shoto, Zoner/Rushdown, Footsie
Khan - Shit, Rushdown, Unfinished SOMEHOW
Hoingo - Zoner, Unorthodox (???)
Mariah - Trap Zoner, Rushdown
If anything I said sounded wack or out of place, lmk!!!
Good video. When you were talking about ranges of Zoners, I was thinking (my mains) SF4 Vega or (lesser degree) ST Dictator. Then you went into footsie characters. But actually Karin in SF5 is probably the best (or at least recognizable) example of that type of character.
Hello, it is Zachary’s brother, he has forced me to subscribe to your channel, love you loads my distant friend
Awesome video! I'm a new fan waiting for new content, hope you come back with a new video soon :)
When you put Faust in unorthodox it felt weird I have always thought of him as an item character
I came for the topic...But I stayed for the No More Heroes reference 😭❤️
I think u could also talk about the bait & punish type characters
25:24
I'd also nominate Teddie from Persona 4: Arena. He can do the exact same move as Lum and Faust.
I am once again telling a talented fighting game tuber to check out hisoutensoku
noteable rushdown characters: The Fighter Z roster
Im surprised king and Armor King weren't mentioned in the grappling section
Why did you not mention King/Armor king in the Grappler topic? Literally the best grapplers in fighting games.
I’m assuming he showed Baiken at the end since she’s commonly referred to as a “parry character” and that’s an archetype/trait he didn’t touch on, although it’s understandable since it’s literally just in the name, there’s not much else to say about it than that. I can’t really think of any other archetype or trait that he didn’t touch on asides like the clone/copy characters such as Double from Skullgirls. Only problem is it’s kind of hard to define their archetype, only the trait is distinguishable. At least for me since I’ve never really seen the character in action. If anyone knows how they play let me know! A joke character is another too but they more so fall into the unorthodox category instead.
I love how Karin is just a Tekken Character. Like that's the beginner Tekken character. Command attack grabs. Works in footsie range. Annoys you with pokes and can't zone given that Tekken doesn't operate at all at long range even with 2d characters
After saying all of that, I was like that's a Tekken character lol
I feel like you can’t get more cursed than captain america, vergil and ryu on the same team
This video is stupidly good.
I think puppet characters count as an archetype as they do typically have a unique game plan. to get the opponent sandwiched between their entities. puppet characters
typically don't have great combos or offense unless they can make this happen.
I also would consider characters whose gameplan is to Touch of Death the opponent as another archetype. these characters tend to be fragile and very evasive but once they land a hit they can combo an entire health bar away.
Lastly i would consider defensive/parry characters whose gameplan is to bait or catch the opponent and steal turns. they're similar to your definition of footsies characters but a little more nuanced in that their parry is needed to start offense rather than just for defensive, ironic as that sounds.
Very well made video
Wait, what about the mobile grappler? I.E. grapplers who's command grabs aren't insane but they also have the ability to close the distance much faster than normal grapplers. An example would be wrestler kirby from kirby fighters 2. He can close the distance much faster due to everyone being a kirby. Or what about Beowulf from skullgirls? He has a high jump, his wolf shoot, and the ability to throw out his chair to close the distance between him and his enemies
You just skipped over R. Mika in your list of grapplers, huh? I'm not sad, you're sad!
Great video though
Brawler seems like an archetype that I hear mentioned sometimes. Some describe Alex, Abigail and I guess balrog(boxer) as a brawler.
That feels more like a characteristic rather than a full archetype, as Abigail and Alex are both grapplers and Balrog is a rushdown
I've heard that word thrown around a bit, but it didn't seem to be a clearly defined trait besides 'beefy character that gets in your face and has a command grab'.
Just gonna throw my 2 cents in: I think there is a difference between Stance characters and Mode Change characters. They are definitely related, kind of like how Rushdown and Rekka characters are related, but when I think of Stance characters I think of characters that are giving up significant portions of their moveset and even basic system mechanics to gain access to a narrower range of very strong moves. For example, Leo can't block while in stance, Yuzuriha can't block and has her basic movement heavily limited, Hit and Kagura can't move at all during their stances, stuff like that. I see characters like Zeku as different because each of his stances or Modes, as I would call them, are functionally feature complete characters. He's alternating what his strengths are, but he isn't losing access to basic system mechanics or a full moveset.
Characters like Valkenhayn or Aigis blur the lines between these categories. They have modes/stances that concentrate on high mobility, but might limit movesets or blocking like Valkenhayn, and lock the mode/stance behind a resource to help balance having the strengths of both a Mode Change and a Stance character.
Also, Resource characters are a really cool trait. Characters that have an extra resource, like Happy Chaos or Eltnum's bullets, that allow them above average damage/pressure/zoning/whatever but only for a limited time. When it runs out they have to either spend time to replenish it, or may just lose out on that extra strength for the rest of the round. Most puppet characters also qualify as resource characters, like Carl, Relius, or Zato.
And you forgot one: the counter character. The do or die, the best of the best at mind game.
Level-Up Characters would be another Trait to add. Characters like Frank West, G, Phoenix Wright, who have to achieve certain conditions to gain access to more powerful attaks.