2024 Chery Tiggo 8 Pro Max (inc. 0-100) review: One of the CHEAPEST 7 seat SUVs

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  • Опубліковано 16 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 255

  • @VanDammage87
    @VanDammage87 4 місяці тому +73

    Had my Tiggo 7 Pro Ultimate since November, can't fault it so far its been awesome to drive.

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 4 місяці тому +1

      @@VanDammage87 nice ! 👍

    • @danielakinyemi1594
      @danielakinyemi1594 14 днів тому

      That was November 2023? Nice...

  • @bigbird232
    @bigbird232 4 місяці тому +39

    As someone who has owned this car for approx. 2 weeks. With current price ($1.98/Lt its about $95-$110 to fuel up per week. - tthats normal driving highway/urban...
    Its a pretty decent car so far
    Some extra stuff he didnt mention. Remote start from keyfob.
    And can open boot merely by having key in your pocket by standing behind the car. (No hands.) Auto dimming headlights, also the cameras turn on when you drive between 10-15km.... distracting but you get use to it. And helps avoid things.

    • @Daumex
      @Daumex Місяць тому

      He mentions the remote start from the keyfob at 4:05

    • @bevis90
      @bevis90 Місяць тому

      What’s the fuel range like and how many litre in the tank

  • @safiullahqureshi3196
    @safiullahqureshi3196 4 місяці тому +88

    For a cheapish Chinese brand, the Chery Tiggo 8 Pro genuinely looks upscale.
    The interior design and tech are quite impressive, and the safety and convenience features are on par with Mercedes vehicles costing four times as much.
    Great job, Chery!

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 4 місяці тому +13

      I think it looks very upscale in the other colours but white not so much

    • @audionut9974
      @audionut9974 4 місяці тому

      its so ugly

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 4 місяці тому +6

      @@audionut9974 Kia sportage ……..now thats ugly

    • @yslee1401
      @yslee1401 2 місяці тому

      Pointless, they have no resale and and nobody wants a used PRC vehicle

  • @Smite-MeisterEd
    @Smite-MeisterEd 4 місяці тому +33

    In South Africa, Chery offers the Tiggo 8 pro with 2.0 tgdi engine and the 1.6 tgdi from the 7 pro max

  • @cnvdh3514
    @cnvdh3514 4 місяці тому +45

    Back in 2010 my dad had a Chery J5 (one of the ugliest sedans ever made) but it survived a head on collision with a Kudu, protected my dad, my brother in the back seat (wasnt wearing his seatbelt) and myself, all of us walked away with no injuries (including the kudu). If these new Chery SUV's have the same build quality as those old ugly sedans they cant be that bad

    • @broke123
      @broke123 3 місяці тому +4

      My mother had a single vehicle accident in the J11 (also incredibly ugly car) where she had a negative reaction to medication and veered off the road and hit a tree. She sustained no injuries despite the car being a complete write off. The ambos told my step dad they couldn't believe she survived, let alone not sustain a single injury so I must admit I feel the same way as you about the build quality of these cars.

    • @rjedi5295
      @rjedi5295 3 місяці тому +5

      these cars does not have the same quality; it is far better than those old ones, so they really cannot be that bad.

  • @madopado
    @madopado 4 місяці тому +45

    Yes pls do another suv comparison review, both medium and large. Thanks.

  • @bwamo2430
    @bwamo2430 4 місяці тому +14

    The Tiggo 4 Pro (Which I believe Australia is receiving at some point in the future) has just become the 4th best selling passenger vehicle in South Africa. They're doing exceptionally well here especially considering they launched in mid 2021.

    • @faizalngobeni6786
      @faizalngobeni6786 4 місяці тому +3

      Except for the fuel consumption, drinks fuel like a super Cars, but differently worth the price

  • @JamesZ888
    @JamesZ888 4 місяці тому +29

    chery has been improved a lot, since they started testing all the new vechicles in australia first before selling it, things like lane centering etc

  • @aqua-tron2361
    @aqua-tron2361 4 місяці тому +10

    Yes, please do another off road comparison, seeing how these things perform is awesone!

  • @plamenkirev7682
    @plamenkirev7682 4 місяці тому +5

    I recently bought the 2024 Tiggo 4 pro Elite Auto. Must say the car is solid and drivers super well. Only 2 flaws I can pick up is:
    1. High fuel consumption - average 9L/100km
    2. The plastics that you don't necessarily see tend to squeek a little. Prime example of this is in the trunk as well as in the dash console. However this only happens on bumpy roads & higher speed.
    Overall, a really good value for money car if you don't mind forking out a little more for fuel.

  • @YourLocalSnag
    @YourLocalSnag 4 місяці тому +9

    2:55 YES!! Please do another mid size SUV off road test again!!

  • @leighfauvette2080
    @leighfauvette2080 4 місяці тому +18

    Yes please do another midsize suv mega comparison test. The last one was quite enjoyable 🤘🤘

  • @ezy.from.now.on.
    @ezy.from.now.on. 4 місяці тому +10

    Ofc we want you to do that test again. I dont even wqnna go off road but u do love sewing how capable modern cars are off sealed roads. Its interesting

  • @tylerjones3875
    @tylerjones3875 4 місяці тому +6

    I’ve been hanging out for this review! Thank Paul!
    Such a nice looking car, hopefully the engine and tech lives up to the hype 🤞

  • @sem5397
    @sem5397 2 місяці тому +4

    People seriously underestimate these Chinese cars . Yes resale might not be the best but when you can buy a top of range tiggo 8 for 48 grand drive away with every feature you can think of included with that luxurious feel against the competitors like rav 4 , Hyundai Tucson which are top of range over 60 grand drive away …..🤷‍♂️ these Chinese cars are now very well made and put together , so much that the ford boss calls them a real threat because of this very reason … they’re really good cars

  • @ryans5343
    @ryans5343 4 місяці тому +11

    Please do the medium suv offroad test again!

  • @sportsmaster8729
    @sportsmaster8729 4 місяці тому +3

    Yes please we need that test done again with more cars

  • @worthy_escapes
    @worthy_escapes 4 місяці тому +3

    As for the question, yes we would all love to see the SUV off road mega test again. Remember how many family's like doing the occasional camping trip down a dirt track etc.
    Or just due to the fact that our roads are mostly absolutely terrible 😂

  • @CaptainChristianZ1818
    @CaptainChristianZ1818 4 місяці тому +5

    I think there is a slight correction with the boot space with 2nd and 3rd row seats down. total 2100 l of space instead of 700 plus you quoted.

  • @lgburch2344
    @lgburch2344 4 місяці тому +18

    You should test all awd and 4x4 suvs off road it would make the videos more interesting

  • @ron_zrl
    @ron_zrl 4 місяці тому +4

    Awesome video as always. You and Tom Baker from chasing cars are my 2 favourite car reviewers! I'd vote for a collab :D

  • @Yirragee
    @Yirragee 4 місяці тому +5

    Bought mine 24th July. Loren violet and I'm 6,5. Plenty of room

  • @SDav21
    @SDav21 Місяць тому +1

    In your test of the lane keeping, you should have been on a part without that groove in the road. It did not lock on because it seemed like you were driving over 1 line because the camera may have seen that as a line. Then on fuel consumption, my friends have the 1.6 turbo of this one which we get in South Africa. In the beginning, they were averaging around 10.4 l/100kms around town. After about 8000kms the fuel consumption decreased drastically, and they are now averaging 8.4 l/100kms which is excellent.

  • @DeSilver215
    @DeSilver215 4 місяці тому +8

    Awesome review. So jammed packed with features. Perhaps consider producing a reliability index. Or some reliability metric.
    Totally agree with you about dash cam. If they can do driver monitoring they should be able to do dash cam. How come you don't get into 3rd row via the passenger/curb side? That side also has the 2/3 split.

    • @DeSilver215
      @DeSilver215 4 місяці тому +1

      I have been told 3rd row has the better access via the driver side.

  • @gummybums
    @gummybums 4 місяці тому +1

    This video was worth watching just seeing you try to sit in the third row.Amazing how the economy has changed. That's the same price I paid for a Dodge journey brand new. Which surprisingly is still running today.

  • @RicknMorty85
    @RicknMorty85 4 місяці тому +8

    These Cherry cars are popular in Russia and many Taxi services use them there since western brands have been banned because of sanctions. I've seen alot of Russian taxis with over 100,000kms on the clock and the drivers reported no issues. The fact that it has a inbuilt dashcam is amazing. I don't understand why this isn't standard in all new cars already.

    • @mrkring1526
      @mrkring1526 4 місяці тому +1

      100k is nothing these days, not sure what you're trying to get at

    • @RicknMorty85
      @RicknMorty85 4 місяці тому +11

      @@mrkring1526 100k is alot in a year of constant use. Taxi benchmark is usually what you test the cars reliability on as taxis drive non stop. Not sure why you're so angry at me stating facts lol. Who hurt you? :p

    • @Trackandshield
      @Trackandshield 4 місяці тому

      Fact with no proofs ​@@RicknMorty85

    • @panjialfian4487
      @panjialfian4487 7 днів тому

      ​@@RicknMorty85he hurts because read your facts anyway 😂

  • @robertceroli3512
    @robertceroli3512 4 місяці тому +10

    Chery have come a long way very competitive in there field And they have a huge dealer network and a big spare parts infantry so sounds like there here for the long term

  • @markjohndelapaz9332
    @markjohndelapaz9332 4 місяці тому +6

    Please make again the battles of suvs✌🏼

  • @Mark-jz5ye
    @Mark-jz5ye 4 місяці тому +12

    If they bring that name in, I'll have it shortened by friday.
    Also, who put them badges on? Michael J Fox?

  • @SahandVahidnia
    @SahandVahidnia 4 місяці тому +2

    Please do the offroad comparison again! It was fantastic! Also throw in some more models, like XC60 and Q5. Thanks!

  • @Donster888
    @Donster888 4 місяці тому +2

    Medium SUV offroad test...YES please!

  • @shahg25
    @shahg25 4 місяці тому +4

    Yes to the AWD off road review

  • @aarongunner1711
    @aarongunner1711 4 місяці тому +3

    Yep, please do the light off road SUV tests again 😊

  • @dannyhong3195
    @dannyhong3195 4 місяці тому +12

    Fun fact: Chery designs and produces the engines and gearboxes themselves, some of the engines are being sold to other car companies and air plane companies in Europe. Also I think they have contributed so much work to the new Range Rover Evoque and some other models...

  • @tubanemosia4981
    @tubanemosia4981 4 місяці тому +3

    Wonderful car with good performance and facilities at good priçe

  • @tigs6941
    @tigs6941 4 місяці тому +1

    We got the tiggo 7 pro max ultra. Looked at the Kia Sportage GT and saved the $20,000.
    LOVE the tiggo.
    Anyone else notice no ring holder on the key? Yes Chery.. fix this.

  • @TheNotedHero
    @TheNotedHero 4 місяці тому +3

    Not enough badges on the back. Once the entire back is nothing but badges then it'll be worth it. I call it the Bang For Badges™ metric.

  • @edwardmorris2231
    @edwardmorris2231 4 місяці тому +1

    Looks really nice inside, great quality. Outside looks like an old Audi 👌. Would consider buying but scared to own a Cherry long term

  • @vhol93
    @vhol93 4 місяці тому +9

    Interior/ Exterior design are nice!

  • @MrSteveMather
    @MrSteveMather 4 місяці тому +2

    Wish you would include a 100km sine wave test. IM in qld and not gunna be doing 130km. Maybe the cars fine at 100 though.

  • @roberthocking9138
    @roberthocking9138 4 місяці тому +4

    10K cheaper than the new CRV with a lot more tech. Rey disappointing fuel economy though, plus having to use 95 fuel , that would kill it for us. Crazy to put a big 2L engine in a car that light. 1.5L turbo would be much more efficient. Love the look of the interior and all the tech

    • @ranli5919
      @ranli5919 3 місяці тому

      man buy the chery hybrid one.and the true fuel economy of 8pro is 9L/km in china

  • @truthandjustice6838
    @truthandjustice6838 26 днів тому

    Test drove one today... Punchy engine, soft ride, excellent tech and interior. Difficult to overlook at the price. And it has a full sized spare. Important in South Africa. I prefer it to the 7 as I cannot see the full instrument cluster in the 7, no matter how high I set the steering wheel and seat at lowest. Ride also more plush than the 7. Excellent value cars and the missus very happy with her Tiggo 4. The Chinese can perhaps improve on fuel consumption, the only gripe.

  • @rickdias1981
    @rickdias1981 4 місяці тому +2

    Where can I buy the silicon case and front glass protector for this model?

  • @bennasara944
    @bennasara944 4 місяці тому +1

    DROVE THIS CAR BACK TO BACK WITH THE HAVAL H6 HYBRID - THE H6 HYBRID HAD EVERY EXTRA THAT THIS HAS PLUS HUD (SPEED ON SCREEN) FOR A MUCH CHEAPER PRICE. PICKED THE H6 AFTER MY BROTHER TOLD ME ABOUT ALL THE PROBLEMS CHERYS OMODA 5 HAS - ONLY GET THIS IF YOU ARE DESPERATE FOR 7 SEATS

    • @TheBlueFernando
      @TheBlueFernando 4 місяці тому +1

      Same brand but different car (omoda and tiggo 8). Chery also acknowledged and addressed the issue which is a plus for them.

    • @josh3221ify
      @josh3221ify 4 місяці тому +2

      I used to like the H6 until this came along, it's better in almost every way

    • @siphodube7928
      @siphodube7928 4 місяці тому +1

      Do those 4 exhaust pipes come on song on heavy accelaration..?

  • @siphodube7928
    @siphodube7928 4 місяці тому +1

    Did you feel the purpose of those 4 exhaust outlets especially during heavy footed driving...?

  • @trentmorris2502
    @trentmorris2502 4 місяці тому +1

    Do another mid size suv test and a 7 seat suv test. Test the cx8, cx9, Sorrento, Santa Fe, Tiggo 8 etc.

  • @peterwilson7015
    @peterwilson7015 4 місяці тому +1

    Yes Paul, lease redo the mid size suv off road review

  • @YaseenKhan-yh6ey
    @YaseenKhan-yh6ey 4 місяці тому +1

    Would love to see an off road with this car and vehicle in this segments and how they perform

  • @hantusmostert
    @hantusmostert 4 місяці тому +17

    name of a phone

  • @LeoNidasPlayForFun
    @LeoNidasPlayForFun 4 місяці тому +1

    YEEEEEAAAHH!!! DO IT AGAIN!!!!! also provide the tires info, they make a big diff when you go offroad.

  • @aquaboy1650
    @aquaboy1650 4 місяці тому +8

    Chery Tiggo 8 series is very value for money

  • @shahg25
    @shahg25 4 місяці тому +2

    Shark fin didn’t line up with the brake light and gave me ocd

  • @Ageratos01
    @Ageratos01 4 місяці тому +4

    This car needs a hybrid powertrain, 13.4L is crazy.

    • @ranli5919
      @ranli5919 3 місяці тому

      13.4L cannot be true. chery have many other cars using hybrid

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 2 місяці тому

      @@Ageratos01 it’s coming

  • @alexnudelman8238
    @alexnudelman8238 3 місяці тому

    Hi Paul, thank you as always for your review. Just on a section of safety futures that annoying and you need to always switch them off. Could you please always mantion wheather you have to switch them off every time you start the car OR they keeped switched off if you did switched them off once! Very important as some manufacturesrs let you to switch them permanently.

  • @edmundvanrooyen2324
    @edmundvanrooyen2324 4 місяці тому +1

    If only all other manufacturers gave the buyer a option of bigger engine capacity like this.

  • @johnnyrarere
    @johnnyrarere 4 місяці тому +1

    In Malaysia I believe for a little extra you can get a 1 million km 10 year warranty

  • @thatdave86
    @thatdave86 4 місяці тому

    A question about the third row seating,a vehicle full of passengers ,would it be like sardines in a can during an accident ? Definitely not for adults,even a minor collision could mess up someone's body with ease .
    Not sure if the Cherry name helps with market acceptance.

  • @obopileboikanyogaborone9279
    @obopileboikanyogaborone9279 4 місяці тому +1

    The way these cars are this good!!! I am hard pressed why i would spend anymore???

  • @aidang1254
    @aidang1254 4 місяці тому

    Yes please make another suv off road test, maybe this time do one with the more premium SUV’s GLC, XC60, X3, CX-60… while we wait for the cheaper segment in the previous video to date a little more.

  • @kyriakostheofanous6905
    @kyriakostheofanous6905 4 місяці тому

    I agree, do another suv comparison review, both medium and large suvs. If it's possible include a Mazda CX-60 PHEV if you get that in Australia or CX-70/ CX-80/ CX-90. I would like to see how good it is while offroading and also if it is possible to do any light offroad while in EV mode only. If you could get also more Phev from other brands that would be also nice for compare. Thanks

  • @serilvelmurugan1177
    @serilvelmurugan1177 4 місяці тому +1

    Please do an off-road comparison. Although, this time an you do it with 7 seat SUVs like the new Santa-Fe, the Kluger, outlander etc.?😇😇😇

  • @AMLagonda
    @AMLagonda 4 місяці тому +4

    First thing ANYONE should do when buying the Tiggo is remove those badges!!! All of them. (it won't void your warranty or devalue the car lol)

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 2 місяці тому

      @@AMLagonda the pro max I’d take off for sure

  • @fairgo4156
    @fairgo4156 4 місяці тому +1

    Not a fan of DCTs, especially for SUVs that spend their time crawling in traffic. This would have been much better if it had a 6 or 8 speed torque converter auto for me.

  • @danielgiarratano5904
    @danielgiarratano5904 4 місяці тому +1

    Please do a medium suv offroad test again first one was amazing please include hybrids and petrol and phevs AWD eg tucson and sealion and xtrail epower thank you best reviews info and podcast on you tube thank you guys and girls at car expert

  • @jitendrabachchan
    @jitendrabachchan 4 місяці тому

    Nice review Paul, yes please do review mid size SUV again and if you can include discovery sports as well👍

  • @Iseeseachelles
    @Iseeseachelles 4 місяці тому

    I’d love to see a longer comparison video of all the hybrids on the market

  • @peterdadswell7998
    @peterdadswell7998 4 місяці тому

    Thanks Paul for the review and i was hoping that you would do this car. Your a bit late to the game on this one but maybe that was well planned. I think you were a little surprised at how good they were...

  • @janrdoh
    @janrdoh 4 місяці тому

    Is it the camera angle or was the name badge (Tiggo Pro 8 Max) stuck on skew?

  • @michaellee883
    @michaellee883 4 місяці тому

    What was the build date of that review card.....have there eenany update since inception? 0:23

  • @danielgiarratano5904
    @danielgiarratano5904 4 місяці тому

    Thank you Paul and the car expert team now just hanging out for the Tucson premium and sealion 6 premium reviews thank you loving your reviews best on you tube ❤

  • @69buckleys
    @69buckleys День тому

    This almost looks to good to be true one question how is their reliability and after sale service?

  • @buncha5651
    @buncha5651 4 місяці тому

    Seems like a very good car. The shortcomings for me are, 1 No Spare 2 DSG 3 Economy 4 All that crap on tailgate hopefully easy to remove. I'd all but chery, tiggo and awd.

    • @peterdadswell7998
      @peterdadswell7998 4 місяці тому

      It has a space saver spare underneath...

    • @buncha5651
      @buncha5651 4 місяці тому

      ​@peterdadswell7998
      Ok, thanks. I didn't see that I'll have to rewatch it.

    • @peterdadswell7998
      @peterdadswell7998 4 місяці тому

      @buncha5651 I'm not sure that he mentioned it but it defiantly has.

  • @manizshrestha3253
    @manizshrestha3253 24 дні тому

    2:55 YES!!! Please

  • @ronnievella8596
    @ronnievella8596 4 місяці тому +1

    Do a medium SUV again, that first one was good

  • @fasttracklap8480
    @fasttracklap8480 4 місяці тому

    now do the same for geely mojaro and the geely coolray. geely being a direct chinese competitor for chery, and a lot of people (myself included) think that geely is better than chery, so we want to see a direct comparison, get the car on those bumpy roads and tell us your impression how it feel, how the cabine sounds over those bumps, how it feels through the video.

  • @Bstar2024
    @Bstar2024 4 місяці тому

    Looking forward to you guys testing the new Jetour T2

  • @JoseAguilar-vt9zt
    @JoseAguilar-vt9zt 4 місяці тому

    Yes do an updated medium SUV offroad video

  • @amazingsunday1
    @amazingsunday1 4 місяці тому

    Yes please do the off-road test again :)

  • @history6106
    @history6106 4 місяці тому

    I’m keen just need a better price and hope the warranty network is adequate.

  • @Jawsonforlife
    @Jawsonforlife 4 місяці тому

    Another off roading SUV Comparison would be great!
    Also would you review the Skoda Enyaq 😅

  • @ilkererol1986
    @ilkererol1986 4 місяці тому +1

    I watched byd video then this one. I felt like you enjoyed this car much than byd model

  • @brettjuhasz9910
    @brettjuhasz9910 4 місяці тому

    Yes to a new test 👌🏻

  • @sandilemlambo
    @sandilemlambo 4 місяці тому +1

    Please do lite off-roading with this

  • @DieterWoestemeier
    @DieterWoestemeier 4 місяці тому +4

    Good luck reselling it :)

    • @robertceroli3512
      @robertceroli3512 4 місяці тому +10

      I would trust the likes of Chery ,Havel used over a Hyundai /Kia too many Hyundai eng failures

    • @josh3221ify
      @josh3221ify 4 місяці тому +1

      I don't resell

  • @IMKhan-wj6yl
    @IMKhan-wj6yl 4 місяці тому

    I would request to kindly do the comparison of cherry Tiggo 8 pro max vs. geely okavango 2024

  • @hannaho6978
    @hannaho6978 4 місяці тому

    I’d like to see the large SUV comparison too!

  • @electricdiesel1993
    @electricdiesel1993 4 місяці тому +1

    I suggest to hop in a one way ticket to a cheap bus with more space as safe public transport than Tiggo 8 (nee J11).

  • @rymar10
    @rymar10 4 місяці тому +54

    Ridiculous name

    • @I_watch_youtube.
      @I_watch_youtube. 4 місяці тому +15

      iPhone name fr

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 4 місяці тому +9

      I’ll be taking off the pro max for sure

    • @I_watch_youtube.
      @I_watch_youtube. 4 місяці тому +6

      Yes bro I was thinking the same thing

    • @lilwill4375
      @lilwill4375 4 місяці тому +3

      i have a tiggo 8 pro and my biggest complaint is the name 😂

    • @sem5397
      @sem5397 4 місяці тому +3

      @@lilwill4375 I’m looking into one and will probably take off the pro max

  • @aafamilyfarms4412
    @aafamilyfarms4412 2 місяці тому

    Does it come with spare tyre?

    • @merrilau
      @merrilau Місяць тому

      A spacesaver

  • @rickdias1981
    @rickdias1981 4 місяці тому

    Subbed years ago. Like your videos as always.
    I've tried "help me car expert", however I've received nothing other than the initial "sit tight" automatic email since 8th July. You guys certainly have been very busy 🎉.

  • @Freesoul999
    @Freesoul999 Місяць тому

    Damn, why they are missing out Isofix,Tether points in 3rd row

  • @joshantonio6894
    @joshantonio6894 4 місяці тому

    Very impressive car for the price!
    7 seater for as low as 42k with impressive interior and punchy engine

  • @netsiteing
    @netsiteing 4 місяці тому

    Did you try it offroad?

  • @somesh7784
    @somesh7784 4 місяці тому +13

    Soon Chinese brands going to start writing essays behind their cars

  • @ssxmusic
    @ssxmusic 4 місяці тому

    do a review on the new haval jolion hybrid
    plz

    • @aarons6935
      @aarons6935 4 місяці тому

      Pretty sure he did? Might be thinking of someone else though.

    • @josh3221ify
      @josh3221ify 4 місяці тому

      ​@@aarons6935 he did the old jolion

  • @rokana9641
    @rokana9641 4 місяці тому

    Yes, go ahead and do more car comparison videos

  • @kamuikanna8678
    @kamuikanna8678 2 місяці тому

    please do review wuling almaz rs pro 😐🙏🏻

  • @maxim3275
    @maxim3275 Місяць тому

    ⚠⚠⚠Friends, share the coding of the BCM block 188 characters for the car chery tiggo 8 pro max new 2024???? (please write your configuration, engine, drive)

  • @jovanilijevski6873
    @jovanilijevski6873 4 місяці тому

    When chery tiggo pro 9in australia please

  • @borismini6707
    @borismini6707 4 місяці тому

    That 8 on the badge isn't even lined up straight... makes you wonder