Nothing better than an Allison in a Dart with a Cummins engine. Nice! Such a familiar sound from my younger years. Now Arriva in my area seem to be running these old girls still, thank goodness, but they are now buying more VDL buses with Voith box's. A voith gearbox in my area is a bad idea. They sound great, but they really don't like hills, which is a bit stupid considering you can't really avoid them where I live.
Every comment you have stated about the Allison gearbox, I agree totally, as these features are a common experience on my part. Did you also know that the Voith gearbox automatically selects neutral when you depress the brake pedal, but the Allison doesn't. I can tell because when I put my foot on the brake, the engine idle rises slightly (Voith). I love the whine of the Voith and think the push button selector looks trick.
@1100HondaCB I have only driven a semi-auto Bristol VR so wouldn't know, but that explains why a Voith slightly revs and goes out of gear when they stop, however on a etrobus yesterday with a Voith the driver actually has to take it out of gear, and the pitch of the whine goes really high and the engine revs go very fast out of gear, this doesn't happen every time it brakes,
The Allison transmission whine is mostly due to shape of the gears. The more square the more whine, more rounded less whine. As for the clunking, that is caused by the lockup torque convertor. Allison transmissions take off in non-lockup mode (fluid drive), then transition to lockup mode (direct connection). A 3-speed tranny will alternate between non-lockup and lockup (1/2 gear) depending on speed of vehicle. Going down hill tranny can do full shift lock to lock (whole gear) which causes clunk
allison at545 a fairly reliable transmission love the squeel they make in 1st 2nd and 3rd close ratio gearbox i know what you mean about darts jumping from first to 2nd gear cant make its mind up. i think the torque converter comes at 3rd. i notice that on 3rd you get lots of speed.
The worst thing I have found on the solos I drive which are 2018 reg ones is that when you start accelerating they ditch the clutch out all of a sudden resulting in a bang sound and the vehicle shooting forwards especially when belting it!
@1100HondaCB must be a feature with the new stuff ie Volvo B7TL and Trident etc. But thanks, these gearbox videos are inspired from comments I have recieved from videos I have uploaded.
@1100HondaCB the push button selector looks trick - cool saying :D I like the button selector too, but I don't know what the ZF or Allison one looks like. As for Allison transmissions, to me they sound like car type automatics, with an upshift on throttle release.
Oh and, there's also a very, VERY small chance of finding a late 90s Wright Eclipse with an Allison, too. I found one on Route 79C in Liverpool. It was a bit quiet, with the same whine.
The Optares over at Chichester have the MAN engine with the Allison gearbox. They go pretty quick, but are wollowy in the corners. I nickname them shopping trollies because they are pretty nippy and combersome. Chi's Solos are about two years old and some have had new gearboxes already. A new engine costs 23 grand.
Some RMs were rebuilt as Dart Masters with the same running unit and gearbox out of an early dart. The Allison B300R on the Optare Excel but they can be diccicult to spot now as many are disappearing on export and worst bus has upto 26 in their fleet mainly in wigan. Merc Breadvans and Darts are common. I wonder what gearbox will be next a ZF Ecolife? The ZF ecomat is already up there.
I've wanted a bus simulator since last year, but I still haven't got one :( I've only been on a Marshall Capital once, but it didn't have an Allison attached :P However, most of the Arriva NW Marshall Capitals have Allisons. You can find them in Liverpool. The 8/9 route own Dennis Darts and Marshall Capitals. They go across my school road! You can hear the Allison from inside the school! Gratefully, they also go through Huyton Bus Station and you can hear the Allison as is travels past. Amazing!
The Marshall Capital (and Plaxton Pointer and Alexander ALX200 etc) are bodies, the Dennis Dart is a chassis. The complete bus is referred to as e.g. Dennis Dart / Marshall Capital or Marshall Capital bodied Dennis Dart. Optare Solos etc are complete "integral" buses meaning the body and chassis are one
I remember, many years ago, I used to always visit my Aunt on a Wednesday after school. I'd walk down to ASDA with my mum and catch the Arriva 343 to Wallsend. Always an Optare MetroRider with this gearbox, though at the time I didn't know, I just knew it sounded damn good! Sweet memories.
The MetroRider is also interesting because it uses the 5.9 litre 6 cylinder Cummins B series engine from the Dennis Dart but without the turbo! Still puts out 115bhp, which shows how low the boost is set on the 130bhp turbo version in the 8.8m Mini Pointer Darts. Then for each step up on length on the Dart, the boost is turned up more. The 9.6m Darts have the engine in 145bhp tune, then 160bhp on the 10.1m Darts, 185bhp on the 10.6m Darts which still use the AT545 gearbox, and finally the boost is cranked right up on the 11.3m Super Pointer Darts and the engine is putting out a massive 215bhp and coupled to an Allison B300R or Voith (optional) gearbox!
The ZF and Voith gearboxes were put up a few months ago, I have linked their responses with this video, I have also got one entitled dodgy gearbox problems and banging bus engines.
@ladanut275 I've been told that the iconic whistle into second gear is produced by the act of fluid being forced into the gearbox from the torque converter. However, why this only occurs in second, I have no idea.
The whines get worse with age- some of the Solos and Varios dont make a noise. Although I've noticed the older varios where I live you can slightly hear it. However, would I be right in thinking the Cummins 5.9 Solos have a different gearbox, as opposed to the Merc 4.25 set up? My bus depot has got 3 of the Cummins variety and they sound completely different
Chris Richmond Mercedes engined Solos from 1997-2004 have the "squealing" Allison AT545 4-speed gearbox featured in this video, and Mercedes engined Solos from 2005-present have modern Allison 2100 5-speed gearboxes (with the exception of Euro 6 models which have a 6-speed Allison or optional 6-speed ZF IIRC). All Cummins and MAN engined Solos (2003-present and 2007-2010 respectively) have Allison 2100 5-speed gearboxes.
Are those older buses? Most of the transit buses in the US which have Allison transmissions don't make that noise from 1st to 2nd gear. American school buses, however, did for the most part until a few years ago.
cardiff bus has a few that did sound like this but now there not changing gears probably any more it dont help when most of cardiff bus driver rally there buses around. they put the foot right down and dont like useing brakes.
Can someone please tell me why the turbo on any bus with an Allison gearbox always kicks in at second gear and at high rpm during third gear; whereas on ZF's and Voith's the turbo seems to be more balanced throughout the gears. And why some Dennis Darts don't seem to have turbos at all???
I dont see why fluid is forced into the gearbox from the torque convertor, at such a pressure to make that noise, it should just pump between the two, The torque convertor creates high pressure within its self drive, and activate the lockup plate (if fitted) but the gearbox creates its own line pressure from the internal pump, There are three pressures in an auto box... Governer pressure, Line pressure and modulator pressure, i dont see what is so diffrent in the AT545 to make so much noise
The Excel has the more "sophisticated" World series gearbox with push button selection as opposed to the (I presume) T-bar Chopper style cable selecter.
Correct, this video was featuring this specific model. The Dennis Dart switched to the 2000 series in 2002 and Optare Solos switched to the 2000 series in late 2004 / early 2005 (11.3m Super Pointer Darts from 1998 to 2001 had the B300R fitted if Voith wasn't specified, and Optare Solos from 2003 and 2004 did already have the 2000 series fitted ONLY if the optional Cummins engine was specified. The 2000 series is also standard fitment in the Dart's successor the Enviro200. Some newer full size single deck buses (Optare Tempo, Enviro300) have the T280R as standard fitment. The B300R and T280R produce more of a subtle whoosh than the loud squeal of the old AT545 :-)
Allsion gearbox is like this going up hill, HUMMMMMMM *Chunk* down to 1st gear HUMMMMMMMM*engine strugles and after a while overheats. ZF or Voith transmission but in the same engine configuration can still remain maintain acceptable speed and torque when going up the same hill
The allison AT545 is a rubbish gearbox make the engine's rev too high and lock up in every gear meaning idle every time yoy take the foot of the pedal. On youtube there is re engined optare vecta. cummins 6BT and zf.
Elevating Europe Cummins ISB? Yeah our buses don’t have those except for the hybrids. I personally like Cummins M11. I like ISC but it can be underpowered. I love Detroit 6V92 and like Series 50
michael jagger I think it's the type of engine it's connecting to, around where I am there were some SPDs coupled to Voith boxes and they are revving like hell no startup
0:55 Reminds a little bit of a nice ZF 😉
The sounds of the Optare Solo ❤
Nothing better than an Allison in a Dart with a Cummins engine. Nice! Such a familiar sound from my younger years. Now Arriva in my area seem to be running these old girls still, thank goodness, but they are now buying more VDL buses with Voith box's. A voith gearbox in my area is a bad idea. They sound great, but they really don't like hills, which is a bit stupid considering you can't really avoid them where I live.
You should here an allison with a cummins ISC on a New Flyer Bus. Its a great combination.
I'm not sure what Calgary Transit's D40LF's have but they sound wicked.
+Anon ymous (AV216) I've seen one video featuring a D40LF with ZF so I think they have ZF.
They have B400R
Every comment you have stated about the Allison gearbox, I agree totally, as these features are a common experience on my part. Did you also know that the Voith gearbox automatically selects neutral when you depress the brake pedal, but the Allison doesn't. I can tell because when I put my foot on the brake, the engine idle rises slightly (Voith). I love the whine of the Voith and think the push button selector looks trick.
Ah happy memories of those gearboxes noises on buses on the 554 and 68 routes in Manchester. Miss those days. So much nicer.
@1100HondaCB I have only driven a semi-auto Bristol VR so wouldn't know, but that explains why a Voith slightly revs and goes out of gear when they stop, however on a etrobus yesterday with a Voith the driver actually has to take it out of gear, and the pitch of the whine goes really high and the engine revs go very fast out of gear, this doesn't happen every time it brakes,
Allison gear box sounds great in a merc, optare and darts
One of the trucks at my work has an allison gearbox, 1-2 is so harsh you'd go through the windscreen if you wasn't wearing your belt lol
These were the days
Allison Tranmission are so common on a Yellow School Bus
Older one used AT545 but so some reason I cannot hear the noise from the Tranmission.
Is it possible for you to do one of these for the newer allison gearbox?
The Allison transmission whine is mostly due to shape of the gears. The more square the more whine, more rounded less whine. As for the clunking, that is caused by the lockup torque convertor. Allison transmissions take off in non-lockup mode (fluid drive), then transition to lockup mode (direct connection). A 3-speed tranny will alternate between non-lockup and lockup (1/2 gear) depending on speed of vehicle. Going down hill tranny can do full shift lock to lock (whole gear) which causes clunk
Looks a lot like a ZF gearbox.
My Mercades Minbus which I look after (P174NAK) Has the loudest allison I've heard! I'm proud of it!
Is it as loud as N357OBC?
aah, thanks for the info, i love the high pitched noise!
allison at545 a fairly reliable transmission love the squeel they make in 1st 2nd and 3rd close ratio gearbox
i know what you mean about darts jumping from first to 2nd gear cant make its mind up. i think the torque converter comes at 3rd. i notice that on 3rd you get lots of speed.
The worst thing I have found on the solos I drive which are 2018 reg ones is that when you start accelerating they ditch the clutch out all of a sudden resulting in a bang sound and the vehicle shooting forwards especially when belting it!
Love this sound.
@1100HondaCB must be a feature with the new stuff ie Volvo B7TL and Trident etc. But thanks, these gearbox videos are inspired from comments I have recieved from videos I have uploaded.
No, not on here I haven't, it was R566ABA, I have plenty of Darts up if you search my channel for Dart however.
@1100HondaCB the push button selector looks trick - cool saying :D I like the button selector too, but I don't know what the ZF or Allison one looks like. As for Allison transmissions, to me they sound like car type automatics, with an upshift on throttle release.
Oh and, there's also a very, VERY small chance of finding a late 90s Wright Eclipse with an Allison, too. I found one on Route 79C in Liverpool. It was a bit quiet, with the same whine.
The Optares over at Chichester have the MAN engine with the Allison gearbox. They go pretty quick, but are wollowy in the corners. I nickname them shopping trollies because they are pretty nippy and combersome. Chi's Solos are about two years old and some have had new gearboxes already. A new engine costs 23 grand.
Some RMs were rebuilt as Dart Masters with the same running unit and gearbox out of an early dart. The Allison B300R on the Optare Excel but they can be diccicult to spot now as many are disappearing on export and worst bus has upto 26 in their fleet mainly in wigan. Merc Breadvans and Darts are common. I wonder what gearbox will be next a ZF Ecolife? The ZF ecomat is already up there.
I've wanted a bus simulator since last year, but I still haven't got one
:( I've only been on a Marshall Capital once, but it didn't have an Allison attached :P However, most of the Arriva NW Marshall Capitals have Allisons. You can find them in Liverpool. The 8/9 route own Dennis Darts and Marshall Capitals. They go across my school road! You can hear the Allison from inside the school! Gratefully, they also go through Huyton Bus Station and you can hear the Allison as is travels past. Amazing!
The Marshall Capital (and Plaxton Pointer and Alexander ALX200 etc) are bodies, the Dennis Dart is a chassis. The complete bus is referred to as e.g. Dennis Dart / Marshall Capital or Marshall Capital bodied Dennis Dart. Optare Solos etc are complete "integral" buses meaning the body and chassis are one
I remember, many years ago, I used to always visit my Aunt on a Wednesday after school. I'd walk down to ASDA with my mum and catch the Arriva 343 to Wallsend. Always an Optare MetroRider with this gearbox, though at the time I didn't know, I just knew it sounded damn good! Sweet memories.
The MetroRider is also interesting because it uses the 5.9 litre 6 cylinder Cummins B series engine from the Dennis Dart but without the turbo! Still puts out 115bhp, which shows how low the boost is set on the 130bhp turbo version in the 8.8m Mini Pointer Darts. Then for each step up on length on the Dart, the boost is turned up more. The 9.6m Darts have the engine in 145bhp tune, then 160bhp on the 10.1m Darts, 185bhp on the 10.6m Darts which still use the AT545 gearbox, and finally the boost is cranked right up on the 11.3m Super Pointer Darts and the engine is putting out a massive 215bhp and coupled to an Allison B300R or Voith (optional) gearbox!
Beat gear box ever
One of my favorite sounds, a Cummins with an Allison AT545
Is the first clip in Bangor as I recognise it
The ZF and Voith gearboxes were put up a few months ago, I have linked their responses with this video, I have also got one entitled dodgy gearbox problems and banging bus engines.
@ladanut275 I've been told that the iconic whistle into second gear is produced by the act of fluid being forced into the gearbox from the torque converter. However, why this only occurs in second, I have no idea.
@kayleighreddin No W194CDN Doesn't appear on this video, the Vario is S355PGA
nice video but nothing about the common allison boom with darts?
I always thought that screaming sound was a turbocharger spinning up, but now I know it's the gearbox doing it... thanks for that.
The whines get worse with age- some of the Solos and Varios dont make a noise.
Although I've noticed the older varios where I live you can slightly hear it.
However, would I be right in thinking the Cummins 5.9 Solos have a different gearbox, as opposed to the Merc 4.25 set up?
My bus depot has got 3 of the Cummins variety and they sound completely different
Chris Richmond Mercedes engined Solos from 1997-2004 have the "squealing" Allison AT545 4-speed gearbox featured in this video, and Mercedes engined Solos from 2005-present have modern Allison 2100 5-speed gearboxes (with the exception of Euro 6 models which have a 6-speed Allison or optional 6-speed ZF IIRC). All Cummins and MAN engined Solos (2003-present and 2007-2010 respectively) have Allison 2100 5-speed gearboxes.
I like the Dart at 2:04, do you have a full video of it?
Are those older buses? Most of the transit buses in the US which have Allison transmissions don't make that noise from 1st to 2nd gear. American school buses, however, did for the most part until a few years ago.
Yeah 90s era (with the exception of the Routemaster of course)
cardiff bus has a few that did sound like this but now there not changing gears probably any more it dont help when most of cardiff bus driver rally there buses around. they put the foot right down and dont like useing brakes.
sound nice these gearboxes
A lot of the HINO RG197K vehicles in Australia have Allison transmissions - I have some on my channel
Can someone please tell me why the turbo on any bus with an Allison gearbox always kicks in at second gear and at high rpm during third gear; whereas on ZF's and Voith's the turbo seems to be more balanced throughout the gears. And why some Dennis Darts don't seem to have turbos at all???
@Josh17160 I have no idea, but Optare Excel (same config as selected dennis darts) struggles up hills with Allison gearbox
You can find the Allison in Marshall Capitals aswell.
GD Acharne that's because the Marshall Capital is a body for the Dennis Dart
"Tortured Puppy" gearboxes!
What the flip 😂
oh hail the AT545 transmission 4 speed auto close ratio gearbox. works well on solo's not so great on darts
I dont see why fluid is forced into the gearbox from the torque convertor, at such a pressure to make that noise, it should just pump between the two, The torque convertor creates high pressure within its self drive, and activate the lockup plate (if fitted) but the gearbox creates its own line pressure from the internal pump, There are three pressures in an auto box... Governer pressure, Line pressure and modulator pressure, i dont see what is so diffrent in the AT545 to make so much noise
The Excel has the more "sophisticated" World series gearbox with push button selection as opposed to the (I presume) T-bar Chopper style cable selecter.
Any Allison MT643, MT644, MT647, HT740 or HT747 transmissions on these buses?
No these are all AT545
i think 'squeak' is a such a strong word. really, its a Singin Alice!!!
The other thing is the loud scream on some of them after going into second.
The Routemaster had the old-school Allison :-)
I have some great Allison squeels, search T568JJC, this video shows a clip of it, or type dart in my search box or even solo.
All have Allisons AT 545
Correct, this video was featuring this specific model. The Dennis Dart switched to the 2000 series in 2002 and Optare Solos switched to the 2000 series in late 2004 / early 2005 (11.3m Super Pointer Darts from 1998 to 2001 had the B300R fitted if Voith wasn't specified, and Optare Solos from 2003 and 2004 did already have the 2000 series fitted ONLY if the optional Cummins engine was specified. The 2000 series is also standard fitment in the Dart's successor the Enviro200. Some newer full size single deck buses (Optare Tempo, Enviro300) have the T280R as standard fitment. The B300R and T280R produce more of a subtle whoosh than the loud squeal of the old AT545 :-)
@@RWL2012 this sounds like the ZF one
Cor I miss this sound
I would boost the fk out of these in Bristol
I swear the majority of stagecoach plaxton pointers expecially 53 onwards have Allison 2100 gearboxes
yeah but they have the 5th gear locked out to restrict the buses top speed
Plus the gears are too close together.
Infact Arriva are buying the VDL buses like what you see in this video at 0:49 to 0:51
0:46 sounds like o405 zf!
@hklamtiggerhk Look at the cars which America produces.
Allsion gearbox is like this going up hill, HUMMMMMMM *Chunk* down to 1st gear HUMMMMMMMM*engine strugles and after a while overheats.
ZF or Voith transmission but in the same engine configuration can still remain maintain acceptable speed and torque when going up the same hill
The allison AT545 is a rubbish gearbox make the engine's rev too high and lock up in every gear meaning idle every time yoy take the foot of the pedal. On youtube there is re engined optare vecta. cummins 6BT and zf.
That does NOT sound like Allison
Allison AT545 is the gearbox featured here
That explains why. The AT545 was only used in tiny buses here. HT748 was more common
It might be because the buses over here have a different engine, like the Dennis Dart with a Cummins 6BT 6-cylinder engine.
Elevating Europe Cummins ISB? Yeah our buses don’t have those except for the hybrids. I personally like Cummins M11. I like ISC but it can be underpowered. I love Detroit 6V92 and like Series 50
Well, allisons are shit.. so much I wouldn't consider it as a "world series" thing
I hate Allison gearboxes altogether they make the engine rev too high have short ratio gearboxes no good for fuel economy.
michael jagger I think it's the type of engine it's connecting to, around where I am there were some SPDs coupled to Voith boxes and they are revving like hell no startup
Voith is the best. Allison is bullshit.
Allison gearbox is rubbish!
Voith and ZF gearboxes are best!