Exploring the Endangered Future of Heritage Buses: What Lies Ahead?
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- The United Kingdom is perhaps the best place in the world for heritage vehicles. There are almost no restrictions on what you own and drive, coupled with perks for certain older heritage vehicles like exemptions from vehicle tax, congestion and low emission zone charges and MOT inspections. There is even a heritage lottery where winnings can be used to restore historically significant vehicles.
The thing is, if you go to any heritage bus event nowadays, people of different age groups generally don’t mix. The older generation of enthusiasts can be found mostly in the classic half cabs, while the teens and young adults hang out exclusively on the modern low floors. Yes, those 07 plate Enviro 400s are now preserved heritage buses… buses that the former group cannot figure out what all the fuss is about, and vice versa.
Of course, it would not come as a surprise that people prefer whatever they had grown up with; that’s just the way it is, except maybe for music - who doesn’t like 80s music? However, the growing trend of disinterest among younger enthusiasts raises uncertainty about the future of these nostalgic icons that started it all. After all, if the next generation is unwilling to look after these vehicles, what is going to happen to them when their owners are no longer with us?
Video Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:40 The Past - Classic Buses
3:23 The Present - Modern Buses
8:50 The Future - Electric Buses
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All footage filmed and edited by Maxson Goh aka glitchFan2428
No unauthorised use or duplication of the video is allowed.
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I wasn't even born in 1949 and I'd take the Crossley all day long. The younger generations can't look even 5 years before they were born. I've always been able to look at music, movies and other things that were many generations before my time and appreciate them
That's lovely to hear, I guess there is a certain fascination and charm about decades gone by! I feel it more in cars as compared to buses for some reason.. not sure why
growing up in teesside, seeing those alx300s used to be such a common sight. grew up riding the t and v reg ones on the 36, and almost certainly will have been on 22026 many times. its a shame one of the older ones was never preserved, but love that this one is. hopefully itll see its old 37 livery once its fixed
Hi I’m Jamie from wigan bus preservation you don’t have a picture of it in 37 livery do you as we didn’t know it had this one
Stagecoach London had plenty of these too, some shorter single door variants used to run on my local. Not sure how many are left now.
Thank you for the valuable video. I think it's something that many enthusiasts can consider together.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Hopefully that does happen 😁
This is an excellent video Maxson, I'm glad I could put you in contact with Rhys for it.
My personal belief is that all buses at least deserve a chance to see a future beyond regular service - Especially if it fills a void in history. There's loads of buses from the past I can think of (Such as many UK bendy bus types, and many of the former trolleybuses of various cities) that are now completely lost to time, and that's a huge shame.
I hope that the future is bright for preservation.
Thanks Kieran, much appreciated. Indeed we can't preserve everything, that's really inevitable..
I find usually these videos interesting personally.
The buses I personally grew up with these buses in Dublin are as follows:
1. Volvo / Leyland Olympians (Dublin Spec version)
2. Volvo B6BLE Wrightbus Crusader
3. Volvo B7TL ALX400 (2000 - 2006 variants)
3. Volvo B9TL Enviro 500 (2005 & 2007 variants)
4. Volvo B9TL Enviro 400 (2007 & 2008 variants)
5. Volvo B9TL Wrightbus Gemini 1 (2008, 2009 & Airlink variants)
However, I kind of get this feeling where, I find that the older buses age very well than the modern buses in my opinion.
Got to love the Olympians! I grew up with these buses in Singapore
1. Volvo / Leyland Olympian
2. Volvo B10M
3. Volvo B10BLE
4. Volvo B10TL Super Olympian
5. Mercedes Benz O405/G
6. DAF SB220LT
7. Dennis Trident 3
8. Dennis Lance
9. Scania L113CRL
10. Hino HS3KRKA
...and more. And yes I do think they've aged brilliantly
I grew up in Dublin for a decent part of my life. I'm a bit older so my list is:
1: Leyland Atlantean/VanHool McArdle AN68 (D or DF class)
2: Bombardier/GAC double decker (KD class) with Detroit Diesel engine
3: GAC single decker (KC class) with Cummins L10 engine
4: Leyland/Volvo Olympian (RH, RA and RV class)
I don't feel any nostalgia for the later ones, particularly the AV/AX (ALX400s).
@@steeviebops Several of the AV class Volvos are still in use as school buses with Garnetts, in Bishop Auckland, County Durham. Indeed, my last drive was AV255, now carrying the registration LW51 ZGD, having been upseated to 85, with 3+2 seating downstairs.
Super! Always so nice to be here with you! Great experience! :)
Very interesting video thanks for creating. In terms of missing buses been preserved, Its worth noting that we have a gap in preservation in the fact that at least all the Wright Fusions from 1998-2005 are all scrapped now. Therefore the history of the first Low Floor Bendybuses in the UK has been lost forever.
When i go to running days i dont tend to ignore Halfcab buses as these still tell a story
I'm very happy that you enjoyed the video. In the full interview I had with Rhys he did mention about the fusions being completely wiped out, unfortunately that bit eventually got cut out. There were so many interesting angles and viewpoints from all the interviews, if I were to include them all the video would probably be an hour long 😅 and yes it's nice that you appreciate the half cabs too!
You wouldn’t have the buses of today had it not been for pioneers like my old Company AEC (ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT COMPANY) who developed the “B” type omnibus of 1912 to the ROUTEMASTER of 1958, and had “stokes” of BL not intervened but had given them the time to develop the FRM (rear-engined) variant. In partnership with RICARDO performance engineering they also developed the straight-six Diesel engine to become one of the smoothest and Best “cold-starters”. I’m afraid that the likes of VOLVO would not have had a look in at our home market had AEC still existed❤️
Always got to love a Routemaster!
Very very good video! Thank you for all the effort u hav put in!
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Well this has certainly given a new perspective off on bus preservation. And it really is just the case of appreciating what we have, while we have it as things are constantly changing in the world, and has newer generations enter, older things are more neglected.
It is indeed. I'm happy that you enjoyed the video 😄
What a fantastic and important video. Excellent work all round. 👍
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
The intro is 100% facts, love your videos. Very original content
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I'll definitely be continuing to create more videos, hopefully like this 😁
I think there is hope in the DIY and Right-To-Repair EV scene becomeing more mature to the poit it is feasible, if maybe not quite as cheap and easilly safe, to put in a high power low capacity batterry for a short herritige run. Though it will be a cultral change from the like new repairs on old buses, and we probably need legeslative progress and less bodged kit-style solutions for it to be safe and legal enough to do in a large heritage organisation in the UK.
That would be an ideal scenario, I suppose it depends on how much of a priority preservation is given
im 24, as much as i like looking at a late 90s, early 2000s bus, i prefer 60s, 70s and 80s buses
That's nice, hopefully you'll own one if you haven't already 👍🏻
@@glitchFan2428 id love to own a Dennis trident to restore to either metro or Blackpool yellow colours as a newer bus or a routemaster to return to red and white blackpool colours
Good video.
When there is an interest, people will put the effort to preserving it. Some share getting Govs involved but if a country like SG can't do it till now, I have doubts on preservation by Gov
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Indeed so, although in Singapore even though there is sufficient interest, government say no means no
@@glitchFan2428the most is static display
On another note, it's nice to see that one of the former Sheffield T MAK buses has been preserved.
T845MAK? That's the only surviving T-MAK left.
@@jaggass Is it? I didn't know that. Such a shame if that's the case because that would mean it is only one of two surviving Mainline Sheffield B10s left
@@RetroelectronicT845MAK got transferred to First Manchester years ago and Diamond Northwest after they took over the Bolton depot.
@@jaggass I knew 845 was transferred to First Manchester many years ago and then was under Diamond for a few years before being withdrawn and used as a driver trainer. I honestly thought it had been scrapped sometime after. I didn't know what happened to the rest of the T-MAK batch or the rest of the R-WKW batch as afaik only R790 WKW is the only surviving vehicle of that batch.
Thanks for this very informative video. I am a big bus and coach fan and love going to rallies to ride on the preserved buses and coaches. A big thank you to all the preservationists out there.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Great to show appreciation to preservationists for sharing their passions with us
I think in the future of half cabs and other buses will be the same way with steam trains. While the younger generation will associate with diesel/ electric traction, people will still look up to the steam as it's natural definition of a "classic train" and thus people in the future will continue to maintain them to keep the museums running.
I do hope that you're right! 👍🏻
I’m a 22 year old lady and love steam trains,most modern trains/cars/buses lack character
now nearing 58 myself, it'd literally taken me decades to become amazed by the glory of steam engines .. plus I remember the 1971 thrill the following morning when our border-crossing over-nighter had had its traction switched over to some ever glorious steamie of the Spaniards'.
This video is seriously interesting - I personally wouldn't preserve anything I've not grew up with and have an interest in. I've had a few older enthusiasts asking myself and my preservationist friends why none of us own Routemasters etc, and again, I have no attachment to them whatsoever, and unless someone gave one to me I wouldn't bother, I'll stick with my old Dart thanks.
Yeah at the end of the day like what Kelvin said, people like to go back to their childhood. Couldn't have said it better
I worked for Preston Bus. They had the 1,000th ever built Optare Solo, something I'd have thought was worth preserving! Sadly, it was moved across the UK to different Diamond sites over the years and has disappeared in Scotland somewhere. I have no idea how to find it again, much as I want to preserve it. Solo was the first bus I drove in service and it has a special place in my heart
What was it's reg
Hopefully it still exists somewhere! You never know. If you can remember the reg I'm sure someone could shed some light on it's whereabouts
From a sg pov, the Leylands were the few buses most grew up with from that generation, along with the Albion and the Mercedes-Benz O305s
My local bus company has actually has an 07 plate Volvo in Barbie livery which was still in public service until 2021 when it was converted into a driver training vehicle and it's the last vehicle in the fleet with the Barbie livery and in still has it's original hand rails, bell buttons and passenger seating and now it sits in the depot in the corner waiting for its next driver training adventure
Glad to hear it's still alive and kicking!
Excellent video.
Thank you very much!
As part of the newer generation, I strangely have more of an attachment towards older equipment. My childhood with buses was heading to Blacktown or even school on Mercedes-Benz O405 in the old white livery with the previous 'busways' logo. Nowadays, it's mainly Volvos, Scanias and even new Custom Denning electric buses but I just feel nostalgic for the old Mercs. Miss the noise of their engines roaring, especially hearing work hard when going uphill. I think it could be down to how us Australians somehow just try to hang on to the old equipment for as long as possible like, we're still using electric trains that date from 1977 at their oldest.
I do also have a soft spot too for the classics as I have managed to ride one of Sydney's historic buses, a 1948 Leyland Titan OP2/1, during the Transport Heritage Expo 2023 and I enjoyed it. Shame my grandmother wasn't there as those buses were her childhood, even if they were going out of service when she began riding them.
That's an interesting point about buses offering a glimpse at a time period of our loved ones. Never thought about that before!
@@glitchFan2428 My grandmother used to tell me some stories of Sydney's old double decker buses before they retired in 1986 (those would be Leyland Atlantians. The Leyland Titans would have been knackered and retired by then) which included one old one which had to help "blow" while sitting on the top deck to help it up a steep hill in Glebe. It wasn't until 2012 (when I was 9) that the double decker made a return.
She saw them go out of service, I came around at the right time to see them come back but ironically, I prefer the old Leylands. Just the seats are comfier than the modern ones rolling Sydney's roads.
Ahh yes , so much reminiscence . I'm in Canberra , and we have buses from 1990 ( Renault pr100.2 ) still running , they honestly are far better than newer units , I love old things that run forever , it's like an old friend isn't it ?
Very interesting video and some good points. I do notice that the half cabs attract more families on running days.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Indeed, the half cabs are loved by families, while the more modern buses are more enthusiast oriented
I will come back to watch the video in its entirety:)
Thanks
I grew up with 51-reg Marshall Capital C39 bodied Darts in East London, and was thrilled when I saw DML41424 at a heritage bus running day in Kingston last year, part of the batch ordered for my old local route, in preservation. As cool as it was to finally ride an RM, RT, and a National all for the first time in one day, there was something special about getting back on the old 308.
Indeed it will be, the feeling of being a kid again is sometimes quite priceless
Nice video!
Thanks!
Lots of buses nostalgic 🎉
I can see that there's a single decked Wright Axcess Scania amongst the buses; if I got hold of that, I would've had it repainted into the Roadcar Connect 6 Lo-Liner livery introduced in February 1999, along with giving it the blue scroll with white lettering and numbering destination blind; I remember going on these buses with my mum when I was 3 and 4 years old on the route between Skegness and Lincoln, but I didn't find these as amusing as the double deckered East Lancs Pyoneers (which were branded as Connect 6 Hi-Liner), as I always liked going upstairs to get a good view of the route between Skegness, Horncastle and Lincoln....
I find a lot of the liveries in the mid 90s very visually outstanding (maybe not First Tomato Soup), stuff like Stagecoach stripes especially
@@glitchFan2428 I remembered that RoadCar's Connect 6 Lo-Liner bus was predominantly orange with a white rooftop and middle white stripe (the window area), green lettering and a green skirt stripe.
A big thing with Modern Preserved Buses is you need people who know their ins and outs. A lot of preservationists with Modern Vehicles try to do things on their own and it always ends up in tears (speaking from experience!). Unfortunately it is a hard truth that to maintain Modern Vehicles you need some big money and big connections to hire people who know what they're doing and not try to do it on your own. The best comparison I find is that you can get a £20 an hour mechanic/electrician to complete a job in 8 hours or a £50 an hour one to do it in 30 minutes. But again, its the money aspect that drives people to do it themselves and not seek expert help.
There are more events catered to the 80s onwards generation (without half cabs) for people to attend now days and a lot of running days will always have some low-floor buses being accepted by everyone. It is also nice to see that a lot of museums are being more accepting to Low-Floor Buses, most museums will at least have one of that generation which is very nice to see.
It is a challenging time for any bus preservationist but I think the influx of any vehicle (old or new) is a good thing. People just need to remember that buying the bus is the easy bit! The maintainence, storage, fuel, insurance, MOT, tax and so on so forth is the most expensive part of it, unfortunately most people very much have an oversight into this and don't think about it and sometimes it leave others to pick up the pieces of their mess.
heck modern vehicles in general are generally harder to maintain alot of it from the electronic systems.
like just compare older fiesta's to the final production model and the amount of electronics crammed into it over the years gets ridiculess.
That's a fair point. I think it's the same with cars, buying it is the easy bit! And yes I'm glad that the low floor buses are slowly making their way into museums across the country
I love looking at the older buses we need to preserve them
They are beautiful 😍
This is why it is very important for owners of preserved buses to have a Will, and if they don't have one, to make a Will now. The Will should clearly state that the particular bus of certain make and chassis is to go to a certain preservation society or museum if the owner passes for whatever reason, and if necessary to set multiple different parties so that the gift does not fail. The reason why a preserved bus might end up going for scrap or be repurposed as something else on the cheap is when family members as administrators of an estate look at the owner's assets, fail to realise what the true value of the preserved bus, and decide to liquidate the vehicles as an estate for a quick buck. It is no different from when a grandson or granddaughter somehow dusted off a collection of rare stamps worths millions, didn't know what it was, and then goes on to sell them on the flea market for $50!
While that would be ideal, I'm not sure if it's entirely realistic due to most museums and collections being quite full. It's definitely a start though to avoid important bits of history being lost forever
@@glitchFan2428 It is not a silver bullet, but it should be a first choice. Definitely beats greedy family members from lelong lelong your hard work working on a vintage bus.
@@sgbuses yeah true. It's a start
I grew up in the 1950s and travelled on Leyland Titan PD2s, Bristol K5G and K6A, Guy Arab double deckers of Maidstone & District, and the odd bus from Southdown.
Later, when living in London, I went to school on the London Transport RT (AEC Regent Three) and travelled on the single decker RF (AEC Regal Four) and had a trip on the FRM1 (AEC rear engine version of the RM Routemaster). In Oxfordshire it was the Bristol VR/VRT double deckers of Oxford South Midland. I admit that my love of the double deckers is possibly due to riding on those my father drove for Maidstone & District. Yes, I also remember the Trolley buses of London Transport and of Maidstone Corporation, and the old M&D advert “You see more [of the countryside**] from the top deck of a bus” *. * paraphrased and it’s true.
Being a member of Friends of the London Transport Museum this is a way of helping maintain vehicles of many periods both in full running order and on static display. As was stated in this video some modern “electric” vehicles may have to be static display items - Batteries Not Included - but not totally lost forever. Thank you for your video and best wishes from me (an old relic from the past) in Oxfordshire
It's great to hear that you're helping to preserve your generation of history in London. Thank you for the well wishes and I wish you all the best too.
It's a great video and although I am more into trains nowadays. I would like to preserve one of the Class 60 Diesel Locomotives which most of them are at Toton. In regards future bus preservation. Due to the way the newer buses are engineered and designed. It would be likely for those in the field of electronics and would need to be certified for safety in handling the very power high voltage batteries that the electric buses would use. If I was to preserve a bus. I would have liked to own SN53KJE or SN53KJJ with the latter having a musical Voith transmission. In English language, those two are Dennis Trident Alexander ALX400's that were both new to London United in December 2003 and worked the Route 94 until 2016 when they passed to Shoreline Suncruisers in 2017. Not sure if they are around still or not but I loved them when I lived in London. For me nowadays, I would ideally want to preserve a locomotive like the Class 60. Check them out and see what I mean mate. I enjoyed the topic of the video too.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I too can appreciate a nice loud voith gearbox 😁
I learnt and passed my bus test in a B7
I grew up riding on older Volvo double decks (D plate) and have ridden on Routemasters, i love seeing older busses on the road and the fact that people don't remember the older buses should NEVER be an excuse for not restoring and preserving them.
I wouldn't say it's an excuse but rather if given a choice with limited funds available (which is usually the case) one would generally prioritise keeping something that they remember. I'm sure there's people who don't remember them but will choose to preserve them, but it does seem (from the research conducted to make this video) that these people are the minority for now.
Nice video! As a volunteer at a Dutch preservation group i see the same thing happening.
Thankfully my group is one of the few in The Netherlands which don't only look at the personal preference, but also the inportance of a specific model. Hence we also preserved a Citaro Facelift already for example. Which, as a 21 year old guy, born in 2003, has attracted me to that group in particular.
As i am that age, i also don't take a real interest in the buses from before the 1980ties really. But i do see why we need to keep them in good condition.
Another thing i see tho, is that at alot of groups, you don't get alot of new, younger people in.
Just because there are no buses in those groups to get them interested to enter those groups.
Also a thing is that, in the past lives of buses were much longer, most buses tended to go for about, 20 to sometimes even 30 years until a replacement was finally there.
So preserving them was, apart from the technical side, mush easier. Because you could snag them right when they came out of passenger service. And people who grew up with them, had the income to get into that hobby of preserving a bus.
Nowadays buses only seem to go about 10 to 15 years before they get replaced.
And as a result, most people who would love to preserve a bus from their youth, don't get that chance anymore, and need to get one which already has gone through serveral other owners until they finally have the income to finance such a hobby, or worse, you can't anymore because they have been exported, or even scrapped.
So the younger people kind of depend on what the older generation wish to preserve. Which takes us back to: People love to at first, preserve the bus from their youth.
And kind of don't want to preserve "the stuff which killed the nice stuff.".
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. That actually makes a LOT of sense about people being able to afford to buy an older bus when they came out of service before. I never thought about that before
Our newest bus to the Collection comes from 2013!
I’m with a preservation group myself, only two “modern” vehicles, a 1991 dominator & early 2000s b7tl, being 35 both of which are “my” era.
Maybe I buck the trend but I quite like driving the older pd2 and tiger cub, it’s a lot more challenging than my day to day auto box “work vehicles” and the smells and experience are something else
I've not had the pleasure of driving a half cab before, but I've driven some modern buses like a MAN NL323F and ADL Enviro 400 MMC, and compared to older buses like the Volvo B10M or Mercedes O405, they feel a lot less exciting in comparison. Going by this logics the half cabs should be a blast to drive
Awesome video about heritage buses, do like perserved old bus model as they are part of daily life of riding them in bus svcs before they are scrapped or export to another country to continue perserve the memories of childhood bus that used to ride in the past but for modern bus model may be hard to maintain it as the cost can increased over the year if they are available to purchase to replace the faulty engine who knows whether perserving modern bus model is next in line
My favourite bus was always the Plaxton Pointer
Looks smart that
Preservation wise i can't see any buses of today like the B9TL, Streetlite, Enviro 200,400 etc.
I suppose time will tell if people can successfully preserve them
I quite like the Arriva, First and Stagecoach specifications from the mid 2010s so I probably might in the future if I’m in that position - just for things like showing the liveries and the interior and looking on the little details that interest me like the quality of the leather seats and the ticket machines.
Them buses you've mentioned aren't that bad as they don't run on electric batteries (the diesel versions of them) but the electrical wiring is a bit more advanced than the older ones for sure but atleast you ain't having to replace batteries 24/7 like hybrids or electrics
I’ve missed T845 MAK. One day we will see T845 MAK and R790 WKW out on runs together. I’m definitely going to SYPTE 50th anniversary running day at both SYTT and SYTM.
In my childhood I went on Leyland Nationals, Olympians Bristol LH, VR Leyland Atlanteans
I remember gasping in amazement at recognising the restaurant seating inside an Old Montreal bar that we'd been ushered into back in the mid-1980s had actually been altogether extracted from one of Paris's iconic Sprague-Thomson metros .. that two-table dining section itself has already l o n g been discarded 🌬brrrRrr🌬
Blast from the past that
Yeah, thats usually me but I have recently gone more to older vehicles such as the National at NWMORT
That's nice that you're doing more for older vehicles 👍🏻
I was born in 2001 in Australia, so the buses I've generally grown up with are mostly Volvos and Scanias, but my father's worked as a bus driver in Newcastle for over 30 years (and more as a cleaner), and his father was too (originally a tram conductor in Sydney, then bus conductor, then driver, then moved to Newcastle). This family connection (along with Dad's bus models and the attractive more-British-than-Britain flavour of 1930s-70s NSW government buses) has led me have more of an interest in the older buses, perhaps because I know a bit more about them: AEC Regent IIIs, Albion Venturers, Leyland OPD2s, and 31 seater Frogs etc., as well as the Leyland Leopards and Mercedes MK II, III and IV Dad used to drive (Newcastle was always an all-Leyland depot (but no Atlanteans), until it became an all-Mercedes depot, now they have anything and everything post-privatisation- unsuccessful trial electric buses, unpopular cheap Chinese-made buses the management likes and a short, tiny "on demand" bus. Still, Newcastle depot is an ex-tram depot with a lot of original buildings and some rails still concreted in, with plenty of stories if you know where to look. For instance, it's actually legit haunted because the trams used to take hearses and mourners from there to the cemetary, but the bodies would be stored in a depot building overnight (and it's still there!) I'm not even making this up).
Damn that haunted bit is some scary stuff! And wow it's nice that your family connections helped to grow the interest in older vehicles. It's a shame really that quite a lot of new buses, especially EVs are made in China. They just don't have the same "look" and premium feels of a European bus, that's just personal opinion though. Build quality may also be an issue I guess
That reminded me of Sydney which used to have a dedicated train station for funeral trains to take hearses to.
Tbh… one day we’ll view the enviro 400 the way we view the routemaster nowadays
It seems so hard to imagine but you're probably right, for those that grew up with it
god knows how, the enviro 400s are suchg lifeless soulless buses, the cities being even worse
yeah same with the enviro 200.
those are all over the country enough to the point it's impossible to not see one.
i worked out of queens road depot drove a few buses that are in preservation, take my 2 boys down to the museum and they love it... MCW, Atlantean, Olympian.
That's great that your boys enjoyed their visit to the museum 😁
Maxson will you make a video on the Leyland Olympian once it's back on the road and repainted?
I very much hope to do so, it's an amazing story that I wish to tell
Buses like the Bristol VR were being used way into the 2000s on school routes, it is my favourite of the buses that are old but not "old old". Now I see buses from the 90s and 2000s being considered old already, and I'm still not even 40.
It strange seeing how perspective is changing, the low floor B10BLE is still a "new" bus to me
00s boy here, arrived in the world at the exact time the DAF Lowlanders I grew up with arrived. One of these was preserved a while back but hasn’t been to a single event yet because of technical issues. I’m referring to 4706 (Y706 XJF). It was last seen behind some old coaches somewhere just over a year ago. If I had the money and a PCV license I’d gladly take it off the current owner’s hands if they wanted since they admitted they saved it just for the enthusiasts, their pride and joy being Commander 3704 (FD52 GGV).
It would mean a lot to me to get 4706 to events, especially since all the seats have already been restored to the original moquette. As much I’ve enjoyed the equivalent had I grown up somewhere served by First or Stagecoach a lot in recent years, there’s still that Arriva Lowlander shaped hole that needs to be filled (and it has to be a 2001-2002 one, the 2006 ones were slightly different cosmetically, that’s why I never bothered with them whenever I was in Leeds), especially since they left Leicester at a bad time, but that’s another story.
Normally when I go on a preserved bus, I try and cram the ride in from two different spots, these being downstairs at the back for the engine, but then I also like to get upstairs at the front just to pretend I’m commuting on it.
If I was a preservationist, I’d quite fancy having ex-First West of England ALX400 32008 (W808 PAE). I heard a lot of good things about it when it left Bristol. Confidence, a coach company near me currently have it.
Despite being a 00s guy I do like a lot of 80s and 90s models, mainly Olympians and Metrobuses. Seeing the Greater Manchester Transport Museum on here has reminded me how much I’d love to get on 3065 (B65 PJA). There’s an ex-West Midlands Metrobus (the really iconic ones) near me I keep missing as well, which is frustrating.
Electrics are problematic, one of First Leicester’s GB Kites, 63523 (BK23 HEJ) had an accident in its first week, and the complications mean it needs new panels and new windows. Consequently it still hasn’t returned nearly a year later. I wouldn’t have one personally.
I wouldn’t mind having an Arriva MMC, First StreetDeck and a Stagecoach MMC from around 2016 just as static vehicles when they’re much older, just because I quite liked their liveries and the interiors, even if not their engines.
I grew up with DAF SB220s with Alexander bodywork actually, really miss those times. I hope that one day you can preserve that bus that's currently owned by the coach company 👍🏻
FD52 GGV, remember this bus, this is one of the batch that arriva cannock had that was route branded service 1
As has been said its all about what we grew up with. Im 49 and for me it was the Bristol VR, Leyland National, Leyland Olympian. However I do like some of the more modernish buses but they too are at the end of their working lives, this includes the Wright Scania axcess floline, the scania omnicity and onmidekka, Dennis Trident plaxton president, Alx 600. When looking at transport nostalgia its no different with railway stock we get so used to travelling on a particular vehicle for many years then suddenly something new comes along and it no longer has the same appeal.
Well said! It's nice to know that you have an interest in the more modern buses as well
I'm glad this video exists because it contains some of the same points I've been wanting to make... except I don't have the means to actually make a video, nor handy access to a transport museum! The uncertain future of the older AECs etc from the last century is only going to get worse as time goes on, as their working days fall out of living memory
Meanwhile I'm seeing gaps in history appear as 90s/00s buses get scrapped, new to companies in their last years of independence before being taken over by the big groups, or special regional variations from otherwise standardised First/Stagecoach fleets
I'm happy that you liked the video. It definitely wouldn't have been possible without the amazing volunteers at the museum of transport who were more than happy to be interviewed! I suppose gaps in history will be inevitable, and we can only strive to keep it at a minimum because a fully intact lineup is just not realistic. All the Manchester bendy buses have been scrapped apparently which is a real shame
I know how you feel, and Arriva seem to have that a lot more than the other two. Two years ago, our last M-GRY Scania N113DRB was finally let go.
In Yorkshire, Spectra 723 was preserved a few years ago, but was let go due to mechanical problems, meaning there are now no Arriva Spectra’s in full Cotswold Stone spec. Some of its parts went to a Wilts & Dorset one.
It’ll be a miracle of any of the 2001-2002 Lowlanders actually do make it to an event. I think I might have to quit the hobby if one doesn’t. There were some local enthusiasts looking to save 4731 and 4737 when they finally retired last year, but Arriva overcharged for them. I’ve always been convinced Arriva couldn’t give two shits about heritage.
@@leicestertravels4705 wait, there aren't any preserved Arriva Spectras? But so many enthusiasts liked them, I thought there'd be at least a couple. DB250s are synonymous with Arriva, Spectras, Lowlanders, Pulsar Geminis, that at least two of those three types (ideally all three but that's wishful thinking) deserve to be preserved.
Then you look at London and it seems one of every type gets preserved by default, while regional versions get scrapped...
Arriva seem to care little about their business as a whole lol
Londoner here. My childhood was:
AEC Routemaster
Leyland National
Dennis Dart (Marshall, Plaxton and Wright bodied)
Daimler fleetline (Occasionally)
Mcw Metrobus
Leyland Titan (Occasionally)
Leyland Lynx
Leyland Olympian
Volvo Olympian
Mercedes-Benz Citaro (a.k.a. the bendy bus)
Dennis Trident
Dennis Trident (Plaxton bodied)
Dennis Enviro 200
Dennis Enviro 400
Volvo Gemini Eclipse
Volvo Gemini B7TL/B9TL (Plaxton and Wright bodied)
I've had the pleasure of seeing these buses operate at their best I would love to be able to look after one of them some day. These younger enthusiasts don't know what they're talking about. I would sooner take a bus from the 60s because they're exempt from ULEZ! 😉😄
I grew up with a handful of these buses as well, especially the tridents. They were Tri axle with Duple Metsec DM5000 bodies
I really really want to preserve a ALX300
You can do it, keep working towards it and doing research on stuff about the bus you will need to know incase they break
Oh you don’t we have non stop issue with 22026 haha
You could tow that Seddon/Lucas to the top of a hill and "drive" it back down.
I always thought a pre 1960s bus would be harder to own as you would have to get upgraded from a standard manual to crash license as well as having a manual bus/coach license for anything that doesn't have a full automatic box, which is hard to find as it is as all PCV training companies I know of seem to only have automatic ex service buses to train people in.
There are a couple of slightly older modern (80's) bus models I wouldn't mind owning but the variants I would be more interested in are I believe now extinct (like the Scanias with Voith transmissions), but since there are none of those left I would go for something like one of the rarer Voith boxed Volvo B9TLs. I am more familiar with the ZF version of the B9TL but I spent so much time hunting them down and getting duped by Visions "BJ11" batch which I thought would be Voith being ex First London BJ11s but they turned out to be ZF. I finally got a ride on one on the form of Transdev's 2451 (SN08 BYB) and it was well worth waiting for nearly two hours for it!
Hmm for me I'm the most interested in anything with a Voith or ZF automatic because of the sounds. The older half cab buses sound really good too though, it's got like a very raw sensation
@@glitchFan2428ZF Ecomat 🤩
@@tehsiewdai best gearbox 🔥🔥
I believe as long as you have a manual car license that you can take the PCV/HGV test in an auto and still get the manual entitlement nowadays
@@tombrown9226 I was talking to someone who had worked for several bus operators last year, he always had a manual car license and passed his PCV in an automatic bus with the first company he worked for. When he worked for a different company later on that owned mostly coaches he could only drive the few with automatic boxes because his manual entitlement from his category B did not extend to category D. As far as I am aware this is the way it is now as a result of the 1997 and 2013 license category changes.
There was also an exemption for certain buses over 30 years old that could be driven on a car license, but after talking on a driving education discussion thread about it I was informed that this is no longer a thing. (For anyone who passed after 2013 changes). There is also the issue with older transmissions as there aren't any driving instructors that can do training for crash boxes even for a car. When I enquired in a similar post about this I was told that there is no point getting crash box trained because there are hardy any around.
Given everything I have been told, for me to drive a 1989 Leyland Tiger for leisure, I would need to pass category B driving license with manual entitlement and pass category D PCV with another manual vehicle. For me to drive a 1949 Crossley would be impossible due to there being no crash box cars that fit within the age limits and standards for driving tests. However, someone who was slightly younger than me who I went to school with who could afford driving lessons when they turned 17, but just before the changes in 2013 (in a manual as standard back then) could drive the 1989 Tiger without needing to find a PCV training provider that still had a manual vehicle.
I have same concerns as you. I preserved 22 old historic Korea buses and 2 trucks for museum
Most of them are manufactured in 1980s~1990s or 2000s
As you mentioned in video,
Modern buses installed more complicated electronic devices, so they are more difficult to maintain and repair.
If you have plan to visit South Korea, I can invite you to my bus garage. You can record videos as you want.
I'm performing old bus and truck prop rental business for movie, drama, advertisement shooting.
I respect your passion for bus. Always appreciate a lot, for your valuable videos.
I hope Singapore historic buses could
preserved as many as can, too
Thank you for doing your part to keep history alive, and the generous invite! As for Singapore, unfortunately buses cannot be preserved there, not on the roads at least.
@@glitchFan2428 Its' sad. Some of Hongkong buses exported to Korea and using for movie props or restaurant, cafe buses. but I never heard Singapore buses imported to Korea.
I have many memories about ex. Singapore buses when I lived in Auckland, New Zealand.
I remember Bus operator Ritchies had 10 "DAF SB220" models from Singapore, and I often ride them. (Route. 555, 945, 945X)
This was my favorite bus because this bus had air-condition facilities.
and also another bus company "BAYS" had ex. Singapore Benz bendi buses, and I could ride them at YMCA field trip, twice.
I hope anyone in New Zealand could preserve ex. Singapore buses.
@@glitchFan2428 In South Korea, buses that installed DPF (diesel particulate filter) can enter to Seoul or other metropolitan cities. Commercial buses can use for maximum 12 years, and there are no manufactured year restrictions on private vehicles.
@@glitchFan2428 It's sad. Several ex. Hongkong buses exported to Korea and using for movie props or cafe, restaurant buses. But I never heard about ex. Singapore buses exported to Korea.
I understand Singapore and Hongkong both region have space problems.
For me, it is a big problem to prepare a bus parking space too.
I have many memories about ex. Singapore buses, when I lived in Auckland, New Zealand.
Bus operator "Ritchies" had 10 of DAF SB220 buses from Singapore, and I often ride that bus. (route 555, 945, 945X)
This was my favorite bus models because all of them are air-conditioned buses. And also, Singapore bus signboards were still remained even they are already exported to NZ and running on NZ streets.
And another bus company "BAYS" had Benz articulated bus from Singapore too. I could ride that bus at field trip, twice.
I hope if it's possible, New Zealand bus enthusiasts can preserve ex. Singapore buses.
I think preserving real bus is very important for future generations.
I found out that last time before Leyland Olympian serving Sentosa they use RT Routemaster I suspect those RT Routemaster Sentosa can't preserve cause spare part cannot find
Yeah I think those have been scrapped after being retired
I grew up with the Volvo Ailsa I hated the B10L they replaced them with. The only half cabs still running were with Strathtay and they lasted until sompoint in the 90s
I went on a Black Prince Ailsa at the SYTT running day, sounded amazing
Here in Perth, a bunch of CNG busses are being retired, mostly because the CNG tanks have met the end of their usable life.
Due to the cost of a new CNG tank and the difficulty of getting CNG fuel, I'm pretty sure none of them will enter preservation in a drivable state.
Transperth bought CNG vehicles exclusively for a very long period so that will leave a big gap in bus history here.
That's a shame. We had some CNG Volvo B10BLEs in Singapore where I'm originally from, good times. All but two were scrapped, the surviving ones have had their engines removed I think, as they are used for patient mobility training at a hospital and special needs school. Neither of them were kept for heritage purposes and will likely be disposed of when the bus company donates a newer model to them in the future.
Can't beat the 96 bruv
Sadly there is a gap in bus preservation and that's the minibus era from transits, freight rover sherpas to Mercedes, not many surviving and also what a lot forget is the difference of body styles, I grew up in the minibus era
Hmm, there's a couple of minibuses in the museum of transport, believe one's a Mercedes that used to be operated by little gem. And there's a small beeline bus too. From my knowledge I don't think any of them are operational for now
I'm a younger one and I would definitely keep an older bus if I have the chance in the future
I've been on an RT on a christmas day special service! It was by far the most interesting bus I've ever been on
That's great to hear! I hope that you manage to do that in the future 😁
Whilst what the guy said about ploughing thousands into a National he has no connection with is true, at the same time it's a piece of history that should be respected.
It is indeed an important part of history, but realistically people have to make a choice as they only have limited funds. They will naturally end up choosing what they feel would make them happy the most. If money wasn't an issue and we didn't have to choose then in theory we could save everything
great video but that was stupidly pointless poll
A.the olympian is well loved and well known
b. the people answering the poll would assume the older bus is being preserved where as the olympyan most likely not
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. As for the poll, I would think that the reactions are still valid as I asked them to make a choice between the two, and didn't mention their current status at all. It would be safe to assume in my opinion that people thought of these buses in a hypothetical sense rather than actual buses being in need of saving. Well there's really no way to know for sure... thank you for watching!
I find it interesting that almost the opposite trend is happening in steam railway preservation; I've found the younger generation often prefers the pre-grouping locomotives of the Victorian and Edwardian era, rather than those that operated in living memory in the 50s and 60s. Its become a bit of a debate in regards to livery, a lot of the older generation prefer to see their favourite locomotives in their British Railways guise, how they remember them, while younger often prefer to see grouping and pre-grouping liveries, many of which are far outside of living memory.
The LSWR T3 is a great example of this, the restoration of which was completed a few months ago, its a Victorian 4-4-0 which hadn't run since 1945, well before British Rail days. Restored in original LSWR condition, its a massive contrast to the BR black many of the older generation prefer to see their locomotives painted it. I've seen discussions online referring such a livery as "boomer black" in some cases even, with the younger generation crying out for a bit more variety in preservation.
As primarily a railway enthusiast, I honestly find a lot of more modern trains quite soulless; I have very little interest in things like pacers, turbostars, and 66s. Occasionally if one shows up at a gala Ill got on it for a laugh, but its interesting to see that in the world of busses people have a lot more admiration for newer vehicles. The only "modern" traction still on the mainline now that I'd actively seek out are the 91s, HSTs and 68s.
On a side note, I much prefer those far older half cab busses, perhaps because they fit the environment of a steam railway a bit better, it's always nice when a heritage railway uses one as a shuttle bus to link with a main line station, like at the Epping Ongar Railway or Great Central Railway.
Very interesting perspective there. As far as trains as concerned, those that I like are the electric ones of the 90s because the motors sound really nice. Especially the ones made by Siemens, they "sing" as they go along.
I've not much interest in steam locos but did go and see the flying Scotsman when it was in my area, truly a gorgeous sight to behold. Went to see a restored Pacer too.
Speaking of Pacers, part of this video was supposed to feature someone who'd been involved in a Pacer restoration. It was to illustrate the fact that we can hate something at one point and then love it when it's gone, as I had thought that no one cared about electric buses. Unfortunately I couldn't get a hold of anyone, and at the same time I discovered that there was more interest in electric buses than I had first thought so that segment was scrapped.
They should protect vehicles with laws like they do with buildings.
That would be nice but I guess we have to draw a line somewhere which is tough. Even now, the official designation of a heritage vehicle is one above 40 years of age
That needs to happen . I think no vehicles should ever be retired until they are genuinely undrivable .
In the late 1990s/very early 2000s there used to be a bus operator in South London called "Nostalgia Bus" which ran preserved buses on school bus routes under contract to I think TfL and possibly Surrey County Council as well (not sure though), but unfortunately they no longer exist, not sure why though but probably due to their vehicles being too expensive to operate and Ken Livingstone (Mayor of Greater London at the time) mandating that all TfL bus services must be "Disability Discriminations Act 1995" (DDA) compliant by 2005 including school bus services far before the National deadline of 2016 and His previous statement of claiming that all bus services would be compliant by 2010.
If we had private companies running these old buses regularly on fare-paying bus services, then preservation could be profitable, however this is currently outlawed if the vehicle is not DDA compliant and with Low-Emission Zones/Ultra-Low Emission Zones coming into force in major urban areas like London & Birmingham, would make these types of businesses unprofitable if the engines are original, non-Euro 4 or newer compliant (Emissions).
There have been a few companies in the UK before which have taken profits from regular bus services-side of the business using modern, low-floor buses and spending it on bus preservation but most of these businesses have closed down, with Ensignbus being sold to the First Group with bus preservation being kept in the founding-families' possession and an uncertain future for Sullivan Buses' if their founder, an ex-LUL executive were to retire or die suddenly...
Yeah it does seem like the future is quite bleak, DDA killed off loads of the buses that I grew up with sadly. Those low emission zones are ironic because the half cabs can go through them no issue but not a B10M or O405
@@glitchFan2428 "Half Cabs" are LEZ/ULEZ compliant because all vehicles 30 years or older (or it might be 40 years old, can't remember) are exempt from Vehicle Excise Duty (VED, aka Road Tax) under UK law and so therefore LEZ/ULEZ schemes and I think Congestion Charging Schemes as well therefore are not allowed to apply to these vehicles, which counts for all motor vehicles with a license plate including steam rollers, motorised tricycles, and lorries (trucks)...
There's something similar now, in the form of Londoner Buses - They took on the former commercial H15 variation of London's iconic 15 bus route, once again using Routemasters - Now ran as the T15.
I can also think of Viscount Travel in Yorkshire (ran by a good friend of mine), who now operates vintage buses competing with Shoreline Suncruisers and East Yorkshire Buses on the Scarborough seafront, on a commercial basis. He uses a Leyland Titan, and a Bristol VR!
I wish or if they haven't been scrapped, hope some preserves the SRM variant of the New Routermaster/New Bus for London, and indeed the original open platform New Routemaster. Actually the New Routemaster is unique (afaik) as being a range-extender EV (though often called a hybrid), as it runs as an EV with the engine charging the batteries as a generator. And the Eaton-Fuller transmission Enviro200s when they are withdrawn, and Mercedes-Benz Citaros, the only mainland European bus to run in the UK in any significant numbers. Especially the London Citaro G.
I think I should appreciate the 1970s and older buses more than I currently do. I only grew up with the last of the 70s buses, most of the 80s and 90s buses, so those latter two mean the most to me, but I do like some more recent ones like the Citaro I mentioned and Volvo B7TL, B7RLE, B7L(A), B9TL, Scania N113CRL, L94UB/A, and many more too many to list. Basically if it has a ZF Ecomat I like it. Though I do like the older "screaming" Voiths such as the Dennis Dart SLF, DAF SB200 and similar with Cummins engines.
And I have a connection to AEC Routemasters, having driven some, and Optare Solos for the same reason (though I kinda of hated most of them at the time for being underpowered and overheating in summer), as well as E400H MMCs and original (which are my favourite hybrids due to the fast acceleration and the engine braking, where it revs as you stop if you brake just the right way), and the B5LHs as they are so comfortable, with good steering wheel adjustment and the i-shift gearbox made me feel like I was driving a coach.
Anyway, I think you get the gist. I like buses of many eras. My favourite of all time is the Leyland Lynx, Mercedes-Benz O.405 close 2nd, favourite of "modern" times Citaro. Thank you for this though provoking video. I must say while I have dreamed of turning a bus into an RV/camper, it nearly cried seeing that Lynx conversion as they ruined the exterior in my opinion - I would say limo tint the windows at most and do the changes on the inside, event the likes of fitting locking door I'd say do it behind the original door, but I'm weird in that way.
It's nice to hear you're interested in a wide variety of buses! Suppose every era has their good and bad bits. Another thing I've always wondered is when the New Routemasters go into preservation or get sold to the public, the LTZ prefix would essentially have found its way into private hands and in theory could be put on retention and assigned to private cars
@@glitchFan2428 It depends they could be marked as non transferrable registration marks. Or they could be allowed to be put on retention as many of the original Routemasters *LT prefix and suffixes did.
@@michaelcallummayaka I think that's what'll happen tbh letting them put it on retention, I personally can't see them making it non transferable
In my opinion the price of the batteries will eventually go down due to the fact more vehicles will need them and to supply demand
That's a good point, should electric vehicles be mainstream one day which is entirely possible scenario
@@glitchFan2428 in my opinion that's the aim however with the way Electric vehicles run and how lond they last I think its inevitable we will always have fuel powered vehicles
@glitchFan2428 no I don't think everywhere will become electric I think some places and companies will be others will have a part electric fleet because with electric vehicles being as technical as they are there's going to be lots more issues than a regular fuel vehicle that's the same reason why dedicated electric routes still see fuel powered vehicles
Hi There like I said before and I will say that Again, are you definitely sure that you will be able to tell the bus Preservation People to find 19 of those Leyland Titan B15 Buses so that you can have the Opportunity to tell them to Repaint them into a Grey Green Pattern Bus Colour’s as I have shown you Before? If you have been Repainted into the Exact Grey Green Pattern Colours, will you be able to Send me more and more Pictures of them so I can see them being Repainted into the Exact Grey Green Pattern Bus Colour for me Pretty Please.
I think Electric Buses will be interesting to preserve, while battery developments seem eternally five years away maybe the battery of the future will be one that won't degrade with use and that could boost preservation efforts as result. I'd be curious about those fossil fuel buses however, does preservation have any plans to deal with the future where any sort of fossil fuel is simply no longer available?
That's a really interesting point about fossil fuels not being available anymore. I would think maybe there'll be a way to alter existing vehicles or maybe a new kind of fuel will be produced. There's significant interest in this dye to the classic car market and enthusiasts, and I believe bus preservationists can benefit from this technology. Only time will tell I guess
I was born in 2001 so I remember late 90s to late 2010 busses my favourite bus is the one on the right in the thumb nail I believe its a dennis trident
It's a MAN but it has a similar body to a Trident (but a single decker version)
Wow
that's all i have to say
Nice
I laugh when 06 plate buses are preserved, in my country 03 plate euro 4 buses are still darting about in public service, although their time is running out I give about 1 year max before 05 plates are the oldest.
I mean, there's a 63 plate bus preserved in this video so 🥴😅 that being said I do wish buses were kept in service for longer
My country imported the mercedes and volvo bendies for school service from Singapore. Quite a few buses from Singapore, still carting around :)
@@joshuahill6153 ooo yes I actually made a video before about the Mercedes Bendy that was for sale. I think both the Mercedes and Volvo are now owned by the same company? Hope to visit them someday if I'm ever in New Zealand!
It depends on the city. Some are quick to shift older stuff sooner than others.
When one of our Volvo ALX400s, 32059, was preserved, a lot of us were acting like it was a proper trip back in time. Sure, some places had only got rid of them the year before, but we’d been without them for nearly 6 years at that point.
So when the owner dies a perfectly restored vintage bus in the museum would just be scrapped?
Not buses in a museum, but buses left in a building owned by the person and cared for solely by the person.
Rarely used the local bus services,but,for me,aged sixty two,the modern buses are just boxes on wheels.
I don't blame you at all, that's how I see the newest buses on the roads now.
Horrid designs, horrid liveries, and in First and Stagecoach’s case now, horrid interiors.
@@leicestertravels4705 in Greater Manchester we don't even get operator liveries anymore, just a single splash of yellow 🟡 much like the orange of the 70s- 80s, which I do actually like tbf
@@glitchFan2428 Same in Leicester. All electrics are green.
@@leicestertravels4705 that's like Singapore where I'm originally from, lots of European buses but mostly all green
See the problem is it's not just they arnt interested the price is way to high who at 20-30 years old can afford to buy and maintain tax and so on a classic bus.
Cost is certainly is a factor but judging by the research conducted for this video I feel that the lack of interest is also a significant factor. Some people wouldn't even bother with saving older buses even if they had the money, because they simply don't relate to it and don't gain any satisfaction from it
It will be interesting to see if Hydrogen buses will present the same problems as the EVs when considering the preservation of them, as eventually these new vehicles will end up getting old and be put on borrowed time before they are permanently removed from service.
And if they are cheaper and easier to maintain, would we see more of them being preserved over the EV buses? (Providing the fuel is available everywhere for the common person)
That's one thing I realised I'd forgotten after making the video. I suppose there's no hydrogen buses in my area (Greater Manchester) so I just forgot about them. Will be interesting to see if any gets preserved
I’m kinda the opposite, I would care for an enviro 200 but I would much rather care for a 1940’s half cab.
That's nice actually that you like much older vehicles. I do for cars but not as much for buses. Still like the half cabs a lot though but I would have to consider quite hard before taking time to own one
@@glitchFan2428 I would do it but am unable to, I like older stuff generally as I prefer to care for a 4-4-0 from the 1900’s then a 465 from the 1990’s. I would love to volunteer but I can’t.
ALX 400
As more of a train person, modern buses are wretched things. Old buses are much nicer and comfortable to ride on, and I don't see the hype in modern displays if modern ride and seats are so horrendous. Also, the fact electric buses can be so dangerous, yet are allowed on the roads, doesn't sit right with me.
I should note this is all just personal opinion, and you are more than welcome to say I am full of sh*t.
That's what the internet is for, to share your personal opinions, nothing wrong with that. I do agree about newer bus interiors being less comfortable and welcoming in general
Enjoyed the video, as growing up,with old vehicles, in birmingham area,rear engine buses,and rear platform buses,,as seen in your video,Early electric bus make headlines, when new,and I managed ride one when I visited Manchester, Nice one as saved,
I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I hope you had a great time when visiting Manchester
having routinely commuted on RMs and RMLs myself, it peeves me that the stairwells with their conductor cubbies underneath have swapped sides with the open passenger platforms for plying the right-hand side of roadways hereabouts 👀 ua-cam.com/video/6uIwYdsCLTE/v-deo.html
No more fun
Then there's the welfare buses
Buses built off van chassis and are built for disabled people and schools and councils and those companies that did that were chassis Developments Mellor Coachcraft Bedwas TREKA and much more the ones from the 2000s and older are lost to time especially the chassis Developments ones their early ford transit mk6s the ones built from 2000 to 2002 are almost completely lost the mk5s even more mk4s even more mk3s I don't know if there's any left
And the LDVs there's a few around
Hmm yes, those don't get as much love as the ones in public service I believe in terms of preservation
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