The Mars crisis, explained by 2 experts | Hard Reset
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- Meet Kelly and Zach Weinersmith, the self-proclaimed space bastards who are urging us to rethink space colonization.
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SpaceX’s Starship is projected to be ready for a trip to Mars in the next 5 years. But are we? Colonizing space in the next few decades may seem like a forgone conclusion, but let's take a more honest look at the science.
An honest look at the science is exactly what Kelly and Zach Weinersmith, the authors of A City on Mars, are offering. These space optimists turned into space realists while researching the possibility of human habitats in outer space.
The environments we would encounter on other planets aren’t just harsher versions of what we have on earth. In some ways they’re actively hostile to any living being, more hostile than practically any environment on earth. From dramatic temperature swings to deadly cosmic radiation to bone degradation, here are the real - and often overlooked - factors we need to contend with if we’re going to be able to successfully incubate human life on another planet.
00:00: Welcome to Hard Reset
02:29: Surviving the harsh conditions of space
05:16: The challenges of long-term space settlement
07:25: The failed social experiment Biosphere 2
09:59: The tech required for colonizing space
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Some lore about these two: their last names before they got married were Smith and Weiner, so they just combined the two into Weinersmith :D
i dare not say it.... must resist.... someone put the weiner in weinersmith............... aaaargh
seriously : great video; amazing to see that the drawings in SMBC look a lot like the real life people (plus a haircut is never a bad idea 🙂) good stuff guys!
I didn't know SMBC guy looked like Veritasium Guy and Adam Savage had a baby
huh
This comment is GOLD 😆😆
If 90% of people thought like this, we wouldn’t ever make any progress towards Mars at all.
Optimism is necessary for discovery.
Yet no matter how optimistic we can get there are logical issues that we must realize
@@JesbaamSanchez Right, it's also not helpful to be naive about it. We are not a few years or ten years away from colonizing Mars, as a certain famous entrepreneur used to say.
That does not follow. There is a logical progression to build our knowledge and capabilities. Without solving fundamental questions, you're simply doomed to fail.
I didn't know SMBC man wore clothes.
Added in post
What is SMBC?
@@brucepeters4274 : SMBC = Saturday Morning Breakfast Cerial = a web comic created by Zac Weinersmith (he on the right).
my god its so strange seeing them now after watching SMBC theater so long ago!!
No kidding!
Ah the good old days....
He looks taller in cartoonish
@@whatgamesweplay Cold, man! You're literally replying to her...
@@kellyweinersmith4743 i still go back and watch your stuff every so often. the date fight always cracks me up!
I get what they're saying - but they are lacking in problem-solving mindset. Their technical arguments are like saying "you can't live in Earth orbit - it's too deadly". Except when posed as a challenge rather than as insurmountable problems, engineers quickly found answers to pretty much all the technical problems (some of which weren't implemented due to cost, e.g. a big rotating station to simulate gravity) and got humans to orbit in just a few years, and on to the moon in less than a decade more.
You don't get hard things done by waiting until they're easy - the problems get easy only by working hard to solve them. You go for the goal and solve the problems as you go.
Consider their "there's no way to make it pay for itself" argument. Of course there is - Mars has an enormous future value for humanity, and therefore has immediate speculative value for long term investors (and space fans), providing we're willing to establish a legal framework that enables tapping that value. Easy? No. Possible if someone works hard at it? Yes.
They're specifically talking about space colonization, not just hanging out in orbit or visiting another world. We'll likely have a moon base sometime in the next thirty years, but it won't be self-sustaining.
What they're pointing out is that there is an awful lot of groundwork that needs to be done first before we can live in space without needing constant resupply from Earth - enough that it's not going to be possible any time soon. If we want to see it happen, we need to get busy.
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
It might indeed turn out that Mars or any sort of off-Earth colonization simply cannot be done. That's no reason not to give it a shot anyway. It's not like the attempt detracts at all from what's goings on down here on Earth. The US spends more on McDonalds than on NASA.
@@jeffspaulding9834 It appears we agree - waiting until it becomes "easy" is the wrong approach, we need to do the hard work that will get us there. Because that is where they end up - we just wait 100 years and new technologies will make it much easier. That might happen - IF we ever developed those new technologies.
Note that they could probably have written "A City on the Moon" and likely would have come to similar conclusions. And the moon is quicker/easier to get to, but that makes it far less likely to focus onlong term self-sufficiency technologies. By default, it'll likely remain more like the bases in Antarctica. And for that matter it might simply be abandoned when we realize "we've done all the important research and it's SO expensive to maintain and supply" and "huh - we can mine water for rocket propellant, but the only place we have to go in space is the moon...so if we stop going to the moon...we don't need that propellant!". The main counter to the latter arguments might be a military argument - not the best basis for establishing human presence in space.
What everyone forgets: A colony is only a colony if it is self sustaining and independent (otherwise it's just an outpost), which means the population there will have to procreate. But only the first generation will be there out of free will. Children born there will be slaves of Mars or whatever they were born on. Growing up under a dome in low gravity, perhaps never able to visit earth, no free choice of profession - because everyone in the colony is needed for it's maintenance, no traveling, no free choice of partners, probably even genetically modified, also against their will.
Who wants to do that to their children? And if someone does, do you think these children will feel as part of humanity?
More likely they will at some point take matters in their own hands, separate from earth and see themselves as a different species, with no love for those who condemned them to this life.....
After reading your comments I think perhaps colonize mars by robots with artificial inteligence would be a better choice
But what if robots see themselves as a different species and seperate from the earth and human being?
Yes, socially, psychologically impossible. You’re not getting ME off this beautiful planet! I’ll die with and for it if I have to. 😅
"Who wants to do that to their children?"
Colonists. Your inability to grasp that people do not all think like you will not make everyone think like you.
It is as basic as, is there a dentist? Who will take care of your cataracts?
You could look at it as "slaves to mars" or you could look at it as "a higher calling and a true purpose". We have so many suicidal guys in modern society because nothing they do matters. On a mars settlement? EVERYTHING they would do would matter. It would be a hard life, but a fulfilling one.
Bioshphere was a success. It successfully showed how bad humanity would get messed up.
We always mess up initially. But always persist. Biosphere is a good learning experience imo. It’s just as valuable to learn how not to do something and biosphere is a classic example.
@TheLYagAmi Exactly.
Biosphere was a huge success by my estimate.
Gotta learn to crawl before you can walk.
One example was 'trees don't have wind so they don't grow specific roots to prevent from tipping over'
Yay. We now know we need to push baby trees around every once in a while. Glad we know that now instead of on Mars.
That was a very enjoyable watch.
I really liked seeing the real people behind SMBC.
I just want healthcare. 🤣😂
To be fair biosphere 2 had more of an issue with management/preparation that caused knock on effects
Biosphere 2 had not enough science in the mix, and too much concrete.
@@ptb1ptb2 It had too much science, and not enough engineering. Scientists are not trained as people who make things work. Before you were going to get any science out of it, it had to work first. Imagine if astronomers had been in charge of the Apollo vehicle development, instead of aerospace engineers.
And you don't think issues with management/preparation are important factors to learn about when sending people to live in space? That's half the point of the experiment, not the technical stuff (which Musk fanboys love) but the human stuff (which is much, much harder)
@@GraniteGeek please try again because I'm nowhere near understanding what your trying to argue. All I was saying is that management/preparation were the main issues not what happened in the dome. The experiment was considered useful and the building is still used today. It's the public that decided it was a failure. An experiment is rarely a eureka moment. Failure is expected, the goal is to gather data so we can be better in the future. My only gripe with this video was that they seemed to be sensationalizing the reported "failure". They used the experiment as an example of how we barely understand living in space/another world yet they mostly ignored all of the advancements that have been made in the past 50 years. The video itself was very one-sided
@@sciptick the issue really seemed more that they tried their hand at too many things at once. But to be fair they did gather a lot of useful data at the end
Yeah, mars colonisation by humans doesn't seem likely for a good while but I do hope to see some sort of restoration and maybe like introduction of BGA or archaebacteria ecosystem or some other very fundamental autotroph in the hierarchy of ecosystem, basically trace the evolution of life here on earth, that is certainly bound to kickstart the purification of land and air and eventually even dampen the hostilities of the environment.
I love the book and I agree with it but it did come off as a lil bit defeatist (even though it wasn't meant that way I'm sure).
Chaos and adversity breeds innovation; i don't think the unforgiving situation is something that should deter us, we always knew Mars was always hostile, we're just learning the magnitude. It is just one of the those efforts compounding over generation so our progeny can benefit, even though we may not for the most part.
Yeah, all I'm seeing are engineering challenges we can't yet meet. Just give us time. I see the first step as intelligent machine gardeners tending terraforming algae. Makes way more sense to go underground than live on the surface anyways. The only way we will learn how to terraform planets is to get started on it. In the process we will learn more about managing this one. We need to move industries off planet. Humans can stay here, but we need to begin the space expansion for sure. Our power is growing too large for this planet.
@@user-wk4ee4bf8g yeah, exactly. we should be friends, we'll fix Mars together.
@@deepmalyadas6585 Pretty sure we are friends who simply don't know each other :)
There’s no planet B 🤔 huh
I bought and read Mary Roach's book, "Packing For Mars" several years ago. That alone convinced me I didn't have any business wanting to go off planet (minus my age), much less wanting to live on another planet. It's time to realize that Earth is our species' home and that it's way past time to clean it up and save it and ourselves.
yes by moving industry off planet etc - the two are in no way exclusive but mutually beneficial in development - this is just plainly obvious
Learning how to live together, "On Earth", without destroying the earth and each other will take much too long (if ever).
We'll all die on what's left of earth before we learn how to live in space. :-(
A great video about a great book!
Glad you enjoyed the video and the book! :)
I love that, while the VO talks about how hospitable the earth is for humans, the clouds on screen spell out "FU".
And by "closest thing" of course you mean that it wasn't really sealed, they had to release CO2 --- but you're right, they should have tried again, we can do it for shrimp, I have an ecosphere I bought at the smithsonian, we can learn to do it for people (and how many other organisms? A billion?)
What really happened was they had to inject huge tanker loads of oxygen because curing concrete turns out to absorb a huge amount of it, which nobody knew before. So it was enough of a success that it taught that.
The real thing that made it a failure was that they had scientists treating it as if it were legitimately an experiment, and not engineers and agronomists trying to _make it work,_ first. If the first session had been treated as a shakedown cruise, nobody would have treated injecting oxygen as something that compromised the whole project. That the crew relationships were so poorly managed didn't help any. So ultimately it was a management failure. But that should not have been fatal. There has to be more to the failure, somehow really about money.
The biggest problem I have with biosphere is that it really isn't a good analog for a space colony. With biosphere, they were trying to literally recreate the whole Earth system. In other words, they wanted a perfectly balanced mini-biosphere that could be sustained with nothing more than sunlight. They didn't want CO2 scrubbers cleaning their air or filters cleaning their water; they wanted to do it like the Earth does, biologically. But there is zero reason a Mars colony has to operate in such a way. Sure, do as much with biological systems as you can. If most of your oxygen can be produced by the plants you eat; that's a very efficient system. But there's nothing that says you have to do everything biologically. I heat my home with a furnace; I don't keep tons of livestock in my home and try to heat it all by their body heat. If a Mars colony needs some CO2 scrubbers, that doesn't make the concept nonviable. We don't need to be able to build perfect self-sustaining biospheres before we can colonize Mars.
@@TanyaLairdCivil Why shouldn't we, though? I mean, colonizing Mars is kind of stupid anyway, if we're going to do it, might as well do it right, and that means figuring out how to make sure it's survivable if something goes wrong with a resupply mission. There's no urgency to colonize Mars RIGHT NOW, we've got time, and even if we're wrong about having time because we're going to blow ourselves up, if a Mars colony isn't able to sustain itself that won't matter, it'll be gone too.
Let's do the smart thing and keep sending cool robots to Mars for the next few hundred years, it makes more sense than sending humans to try to live there. And if we decide we just have to send humans, send them to visit, like we did with the moon.
As long as humanity doesn't kill itself off, we'll get there eventually. We're just not ready yet.
"I heat my home with a furnace" is a perfect example of just how flawed the idea is. A furnace isn't going to happen on Mars. There's not enough oxygen to be able to afford to burn it, there's no fossil gas because there's no fossils. At the very least, we need to advance to the point that we don't do that on earth, because burning fossil gas is screwing up the environment here, and we don't have to have 100% perfect control of the climate here, on Mars we would have to. There's a lot of research that needs to happen first, most of it on earth, some of it in low earth orbit space stations.
I have your book in my TBR pile…I might have to move it up the queue!
The new iPhone 16 : " it contains hydrocarbons" 😂😂😂
I remember hearing someone say that before we can colonize space, we need to figure out how to cure cancer. The thinking being that without an atmosphere cancer is inevitable, so step one in not killing colonists was to advance our current medical tech dramatically.
An infamous quote from "For All Manking": Progress is never free, there is always a cost.
literally just class antagonisms - ad astra
Some very good points for SANCTUARY EARTH 🫶
yes industry will be moved to space
This is very hopefully and sweetly made. Thank you
Well, if we're going to be experimenting on babies at scale, Elon seems to making babies at scale....
it feels like everything here is just a reaction to elon musk but no one is saying it because they don't know anything else anyway lol
he rlly has been one of the best and worst things for the space industry - more so peoples reactions to his attention seeking behavior - its a negative feedback loop for 130 IQ midwits
Then send him first
@@travishylton6976 Pretty sure that's his plan. I have no issues with MarsMusk, though I feel bad for his kids, whichever planet they're trapped on.
Great perspective and insight! Found it depressive at first, but finally beautiful and rejoicing as an approach.
Support. We are not even colonizing Antarctica. We have research stations there where we perform science. But there are no significant resources there that we need so we are not colonizing Antarctica. Extend that to Mars.
I see the future of humanity in large thickly shielded rotating habitats, not patches of dirt at the bottom of big gravity wells
I call BS, I saw Matt Damon do it a few years back.
I was thinking about this lately, space colonization is still not foable on a large scale. There is a need for a much higher level of technology and economic system based on a very powerful individual material capabilities. When each of us could afford building palaces by automatons and growing food for hundreds and personally affording mining and refining materials on a mine level , THEN, and only then, will we see space exploration take hold.
That technology will not be developed without this and other ambitious programs, goals and tech development work synergistically, doing only one is a recipe for stagnation as happened after Apollo.
@@ateliahibiscus6039 I was not talking about rockets and rovers. I am referring to the entire technological and economical field that really needs to be more advanced. You know, like it was very possible that vikings and other ancient Europeans navigated to the Americas before Columbus, but only during Columbus's time did the technological and economic level of the society permitted large scale colonization.
not to mention that plants like direct sunlight so growing behind glass is very difficult also.
Note to self: Don't invite Weinersmiths to my baby lab.
Don't forget that Biosphere 2 was externally powered. IOWs, they didn't have solar panels on the thing or a small nuclear plant, or produce their electricity in any independent way.
What we should be doing now is working on 0 gravity manufacturing, building teleoperated / autonomous lunar industry, mining asteroids, making low gravity rotating space habs for tourism and science and building powersats to provide energy to the earth. We aren’t ready for mars.
Perhaps we should try to put just the basic bits of life as we know it there first, and see if it can survive and evolve to conditions on Mars. Some hardy bacteria! Create a small bunker to give it the best possible chance before it gets out into the open.
more like adapt evolution could take 1,000-1,000,000 of years
We don't even have the wherewithal to make a serious effort to colonize Antarctica or the ocean floors and they are vastly more hospitable than off planet.
Great video, and I'm glad to see some common-sense discussion of how difficult this is, and how the universe is anything _but_ "fine-tuned" for life. Also the two of you are much better- looking than Zach draws you. Phew.
Ha! Thanks. I think he also often draws me as quite grumpy, which I don't think fits with my personality in real life. But maybe Zach disagrees. :)
@@kellyweinersmith4743 And your kids! Always glaring at dad.
A rotating space station mentioned at the end seems like a great experiment, especially if they built one like in Kubrick's 2001 a space odessy. 8 people had a hard time isolated for 2 years together here on earth because it probably felt like prison not a grand adventure. Sign me up for either!🚀🛸
We have more detail on this in the book, but I think the main reason they had a hard time is that there wasn't a very meticulous selection and training regime. 8 Chris Hadfields would've done fine.
@@zachweinersmith4577 Huh, so you're saying that best way to colonize the stars would be to clone Chris Hadfield several thousand times and shoot all of him into the abyss of space? I mean, seems dubious, but you're the expert.
There is a lot of talk about using robots to build the colonies on Mars and such, but the most advanced robot ever created is on Mars right now and what does it do? It licks rocks, drills out pieces and then poops those samples back onto the ground, to be picked up by another robot that hasn't been designed yet. It's going to take Humans in person to make colonies on Mars, just like on Earth and they are going to die there, just like on Earth, but on Mars, they may also end up being food. We need to spend about fifty years on the Moon, ironing out some of the kinks close to home, before we try Mars or even Space itself, like we are doing at the ISS. We could have started doing that, back in the 1970s but our Leaders preferred to make war and spent all our money on that, so we watch Super Hero movies and make our plans based on them, with super robots and super spaceships and supermen doing impossible things, and not Working Class people digging out underground habitats and making actual flying cars needed to get around toxic geography, keeping the sewage recycling going and all the things that make civilization happen back home.
The best environment on Mars, perhaps near a buried glacier near the bottom of Mariner Valley for water supplies and maximum atmospheric pressure, is much worse than the worst environments on Earth but it could be survivable for a research crew for a limited period. Toxins in the soil would probably require hydroponic food growing but water from the ice could provide oxygen for breathing and hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel. A roof filled with water or ice would absorb most of the radiation. Unlike the imitation Mars habitat on Earth the crew should be fully busy with exploration and research on Mars so psychological issues might be reduced.
I love Zach and Kelly Weinersmith! Very talented, funny, and intelligent people and I'm so glad you guys had them on your channel.
Thanks!
Thank you! :)
It’s way past time NASA abandoned their focus on bespoke one off multi billion dollar mission every 10 years that come in way over budget with just enough capability to complete the mission goals.
We need to rethink space exploration missions into development of capabilities. Like let’s set up production lines to produce exploration space probes, rovers, quadcopters, icy moon melt probes etc. Then the per unit cost will go way down and each product line can be developed and improved over time. This approach is what spaceX is doing with starship.
Imagine if instead of one Europa Clipper we had a production line and produced one every year. They could be sent all over the solar system. Once we attempt to go through the ice of a moon like Enceladus the current approach will cost 10 billion and take 20 years. If instead we developed a series of melt probes each more capable and have a production line of them we can actually explore the outer solar system. Space stations, space telescopes, and moon and mars bases all the same -we need a capabilities based approach to all of it.
Otherwise, it’s like we’re building massive passenger airliners to just fly once and then throw it away. You’ll never have affordable global transportation and we’ll never any serious presence in outer space.
The craziest what if question in real life, astonishing.
Now when I re-read the book, I can get the voices right in my head.
Do a search for "SMBC Theater" and you'll find a lot more sources for them. Search for "Date Wars - SMBC Theater" and you'll see how they got together.
I love how these two are suddenly experts at whether or not we can colonize mars. Humans are adaptable and will make it happen. They are saying the obvious.
I am SO happy to see these two, my FAVOURITE "space-bastards", talk and get a chance to explain stuff to a broader audience! ❤ More, please!!! 😳
Breaking news. We had no idea until now.
They didn't mention that Biosphere 2 was externally powered.
Ooooh, the pee-drinking? That's the GOOD part! We've got THAT down! Just need some filtration! Plants can do that, for the most part!
The problems lie with everything else! Like keeping that moisture within the colony! Losing it through the soil or airlock would be....wasteful.
Robot gardeners + slow adaption plus a little gene editing + shotgun approach (just take every seedling species and just plop it on mars) and see what happens. There is a chance. Self terra forming ecosystem.
Colonize? Not yet. Explore and put boots down? Yup
We're very close to being able to send intelligent machines to Mars. That still doesn't mean it's gonna be a good place for people, it's just not. But those machines are an expression of human society, them going there IS us going there. The upper atmosphere of Venus looks better, some nice floating cities.
Kelly is the first author. Why did the video (twice) introduce them as "Zach and Kelly" rather than "Kelly and Zach"? And besides the front-on camera, the other camera showed him in the foreground and her in the background. Not good, Freethink.
Pretty sure it's fine for the tech bro VC ethical system.
Just so long as it's someone else's babies, of course.
Smbc guy is much much more kempt than I ever expected
funny how I was thinking the opposite while sitting at my computer in my bathrobe at 4 in the morning - even I'm not above crest white strips for all the coffee I drink and weed I smoke
Only 2 billion years minimum for teraforming .im sure elon will live that long
but who said that it would happen in months. it will take years of research which is why we need a moon base, and the sooner we start the better
Yeah, we should go when it's easy.
Having babies in space isn’t the same as having babies on mars!
These people see the problem in technology, I don't.
What I see as a problem is politics on planet Earth.
The construction of the 1st colonization ship would cost about 6 trillion € or $ (10% up or down). The problem is that right now even the US can't afford it. This means that a wider integration of states and their space programs is needed.
A change of strategy in conquering space is also needed.
You can think the other way around on the questions:
1. What do we want? Colonize the Milky Way galaxy
2..What is the 1st step to do this? To colonize Alpha Centauri.
3. What is the 1st step to do it? To learn how to colonize another planet in the Solar System.
4. How to colonize another planet in the Solar System? Colonizing another planet in the solar system has no advantages if the planet is not terraformed.
5. How to terraform a planet? Ships need to be built to produce energy and tow asteroids.
6. What is the cheapest way to produce ships? By mining and manufacturing parts in space.
7. How to mine in space? We need a mining-processing ship that can protect the human crew outside the Earth's magnetic field. To become completely self-sufficient in space (80%) we need 6 such ships (together they make one colonization ship for Alpha Centauri.) and it costs 6 trillion.
Any more questions? I think he basically said everything.
Maybe let's master gravity, fusion and radiation sheilding first, so that it all becomes cheaper and safer to send and land megatons. Meanwhile, let's get to manageable numbers here on Earth, whether by our own choosing or by natural (increasing) disasters. Maybe living to 120 isn't really necessary or desirable.
They are clearly an awesome couple.
Wow Zach is looking great, nice haircut
Humanoid robots are the key.
Why do they need to be humanoid?
@@jimgsewell scaled production of the most in demand item ever all factories and humans will have a robot in the future. Robots at scale on earth would make sending robots on starship cheaper. They would use suits and equipment made for humans who arrive later.
The key to what? Unleashing berserkers?
@@rogerborg To build habitats on mars.
At one point you would have to make rockets and Computerchips on Mars or some Saturn moon. I don't see how this could be possible. These astronauts are in danger of loosing support from earth if we don't keep the "high cultures" on earth functioning.
Good point! We have a whole chapter on what it would take to achieve "autarky" on Mars. It would certainly be tough!
do you know how many thousands of people are working under the ocean 24/7 rn? of course you don't
@@williamrobinson4265 And are they producing their own welding sticks down there? Or tools? Do they produce their own oxygen there? They are totally dependent on the people above them.
@@dieterjosef yes if something disrupted those essential supply chains many countless people on land would perish as well
I don't think you are making the point you think you are making - are you an expert in this field or a civilian who has too much time on their hands?
@@williamrobinson4265 Who would perish if the people on Mars would die? Are they necessary? Propagandists for Mars colonization say it could be a second earth. And I am asking how they will produce the complicated things that are necessary for this. If that isn't possible than they will depend on support from earth. No one says that people under the ocean will make a second livable space, it is a necessity. So I don't know what your point is besides showing that you did not understand what it was about.
This is nothing short of AWESOME!
If you like this video, buy or borrow their book. I read it a few months ago and it really is an excellent read and it's filled with good information. It's clear the Weinersmiths did a ton of research and are very passionate about this topic.
Thanks so much!! I thrilled you enjoyed the book.
I always find it necessary to remind people the the word expert comes in to parts ex is a hasbeen and spert is a drip under pressure! with proper understanding less people will make claim to be one! although sceptism is good!
I will smoke that space weed in my lifetime by any means necessary
Lets just make better humans.
Finally some people saying the obvious. The other planets are not for living on or else there would be life there.
I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't try tho. They are just saying it will take time and a lot of science. Humans aren't meant to live underground or on mountains or in submarines but we found a way to do it
@@mrapollo_17 Hint: literally nobody lives full-time under water or underground, or on Antarctica.
@@mrapollo_17 I don’t know what reality is. I only know it isn’t like anything I have been taught.
Humans weren't meant to go 70mph+, fly over 30000 feet in the air, or consume life saving and disease reversing medications, but I am thankful that we can now do all of those things. If assuming it isn't physically impossible to do something, we can eventually figure out how to make it work with the right setup.
@@sciptick We use things from all of those locations and have developed technologies which allow for humans to more in all of those locations. There is no reason to actually live in those places. Space is useful for all sorts of things and technologies developed to maintain life in space will be useful back here on earth.
Nobody wants to live to Mars because it will be easy
Avatars, maybe.
Female experts getting often short changed and belittled on media, I really liked Kelly being titled the co-author of City on Mars and Zach just "Kelly's husband" :D
getting to mars is not "not enough", it is detrimental to staying alive...
In the book we do talk about potential risks to Earth if we settle in space. :)
The answer is always robots
Ant ArktiKa would be way easier.
I'm an advocate of creating a mixed colony / tourist destination on the moon. Initially, the tourist industry won't be profitable, but the government will be spending money on something that it will eventually be able to stop spending money on. Regolith can provide radiation shielding. I don't imagine people running around in spacesuits.
I don't know how the Artemis program is designed, but if it is a bad design for tourists, then the program needs to be modified or shut down and replaced with a tourist friendly program. People keep talking about exploration, but that has nothing to do with manned spaceflight these days because robots are better at exploring.
I'm an advocate for the ban of human space travel.
"Weinersmith"... Deep breaths.... you're an adult....
If JFK had said, "Mars" instead of "Moon", we would probably already be on Mars. Why? Because... there was a generation of brave and brazen test pilots along with battalions of sliderule-packing Boomers, all of which had a uniquely aggressive and fearless work ethic. They pressed ahead with a "no-matter-what" attitude... solving shitwaves of seemingly-impossible problems while mostly using their own heads as the computing power.
Going to the moon was brutally expensive and complex thing done at the time. Mars is 150M miles away. The moon is just .225 away. And Mars has a more complex orbit.
And really: what would be the dramatic PR moment of landing on Mars?
Its A) we sent a robot there.
Or B) we sent humans there. To die. Horribly.
AND if we went to Mars and not the moon then the Soviets would have landed there while we studying Mars.
It would help if there was someone else on the show to point out all the things that they say that are incorrect.
Well which things did they say were incorrect?
LOL I think every sci-fi book ive EVER read has said how much of a nightmare space exploration is and how inhospitable the rest of the universe is. I like that there are people really actually thinking critically about what needs to happen for us to go there
Does Mr. Weinersmith flatten or debase himself with his self portraits? Still not sure - do another video...
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(And if you do it, get Dr. Weinersmith to look cross, like in the voteys. I want to compare that, too!)
could the information density be any lower? First two minutes was just people yapping on about how unhospitable/dangerous/strange space is, without any examples. Downvoted.
on the path to space colonization Mars is a side quest at best and a distraction at worst.
Space colonization is a silly fantasy dreamt up by nationalists and out of touch techbros. We should honestly cancel all human spaceflight programs.
ah, yes, don't do something because it might be hard. Pass on these two.
Really not what they are saying though is it.
there is no audio
Naysayers say nay.
But yaysayers won't care.
yaysayers will still be bound by international law....
@@kellyweinersmith4743 Yeah, _that_ is the real impediment to progress.
It's easy to point out problems, especially when you're making money from it, what's hard is making solutions.
"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."
But yeah, these two and everyone else in the comments are definitely smarter than all those NASA scientists. 😂
Maybe due to the pic for the video on SMBC, i expected Zach to sound like Luke McGregor, and then Kelly to sound like Celia Pacquola.
Rosehaven in Space!
this narrators is like nails on a chalkboard, guy loves the sound of his own voice lmao
Actually, I am only mildly fond of the sound of my own voice. But I LOVE the sound of nails on chalkboards!
Dang. all those trillions we gave to the mRnaBros. might have been spent on real useful stuff. what happened?
I really want us to colonize other worlds but I have to admit that we are nowhere near that at this point. The radiation problem alone is a dealbreaker for the time being. I believe we will eventually solve those problems given enough time and resources. But I don't want to see Elon ship people off to Mars and have them all die. That would sour humanity to the whole project for decades if not centuries to come. And we need to do more than just have a sustainable closed-loop biosphere. There is no point in going to mars just to be stuck inside the whole time with no windows.
249th to comment.
The technology for space colonisation will not be developed without SpaceX’s Mars colonization and other ambitious programs, goals and tech development work synergistically, doing only one is a recipe for stagnation as happened after Apollo.
Lol space x will never go to Mars.
If people were always so pessimistic, we would never have explored space in the first place, nor would we have reached places like the North Pole or the top of Mount Everest. There will be a lot of hurdles along the way, but that's part of exploring. You cannot prevent everything upfront. Yes, some people will die. A lot of things will go wrong, but I'm afraid we don't have 10 lifetimes. When you consider the geopolitical tensions, global warming, the risk of economic and global instability, these will definitely halt these extremely long-term commitments. We need to go. Now. So that conscious life can survive for the long term.
@MrNielsify They're speaking of colonization. We can explore, now. What they're saying is that we are incapable of colonization now and for the foreseeable future. It's not that "some people will die", but that _nobody_ is able to live off Earth as a colonist or settler until we solve some hard problems.
The problem with colonizing the moon or mars is once that is started, you are looking at a planetary commitment to continue to send parts and supplies for the foreseeable future because either one of those planets cannot replace all of the needed parts.
Why is the audio desynced so badly?
I disagree with the notion that it is experimenting on babies, when our early ancestors were nomadic and constantly had to adapt to new weather and flora and fauna.
Is this different? Yes, it is, but don’t try to tell someone that they can’t migrate somewhere with their child.
The moral question is more similar to a generation ship or forcing your family to live way way out in the boonies in some rural area, albeit a more extreme remote situation since it is infeasible for anyone to actually be able to come back to Earth and so they are forcing their offspring to live there permanently.
Hey, I'm one of the authors. I think this is a reasonable objection to our position, and that there's a spectrum. Babies in an unfamiliar forest, moved to out of necessity, is one thing. Babies in space right now is kind of like having babies in Chernobyl just to see what happens. There's a lot more detail in the book, but the short version is there is a litany of reasons to suppose it won't go well, based on what we know about space's effects on adult human bodies.
Life on earth is not a chance, it was designed for life. It was chosen
Can't write colony without a colon.