The Olympic decision was definitely a mistake. I'd be gutted to be gifted a gold I didn't deserve, but proud to earn a silver. I do like point sparring as a sport or a "game", but I don't think it's very good for self defense. Nice to see you mention it
Great video as always Goju Philosoper! Maybe we need to start looking at sport karate as a new martial art of it's own, there is nothing wrong with point sparring karate as long as you are being honest with yourself and your students about what you are training and what not. In the words of Funakoshi "Times change, the world changes, and obviously the martial arts must change too." and for those looking for more combat oriented martial arts you can always cross train in kickboxing and BJJ... or start your own karate style that does it "right" xD
I pushed myself to be the best at WKF Kumite when I was younger. It was fun, no denying that. But at some point, you have to realize as a Karateka that Karate is not limited to 1-on-1 combat with set rules and a referee. Maybe that's the reason why I shifted my focus on practicing Kata and doing pressure testing through simulating scenarios that can happen in real life like being ganged up from out of nowhere. Great video as usual! and great move to have your own Patreon!
Maybe we should include grappling as well as striking, Karate is after all not supposed to be striking only. I would love to see a competetive format with full contact striking and grappling. Its not as viable for hobbyists, but you could still include light/semi contact striking as well as grappling
In simple terms: On one hand because of the so call Olympic Karate there are countries that for the first time in history were able to bring an Olympic medal back home, on the other hand, Karate was not meant to be a sport, the way people spar in a WKF match is not contain in the Kata. Point fighting will not work in a self defense situation.
I think that kata/bunkai is purely about self-defense and it's non-consensual while sparring/street fight is often consensual. Therefore no matter what sparring format we have, we never can apply directly all kata technique since the whole context is different. What do you think?
Great video, with regards to those who love and practice point style sparring then good, you do you but remember you're training to earn points under the watchful eyes of referees, you don't train to hit hard or grapple effectively, that's the difference. The problem is point style sparring is not a good representation of the art as a whole. So the solution is to actually include a style of sparring that would encompass everything, kind of like kudo style sparring. At the dojo I train at we do kickboxing and sparring that includes grappling and striking. My instructor said it would be a good idea to just get rid of it and introduce a universal kickboxing event. That way you include kickboxers, muay Thai fighters and karateka without excluding anyone. I hope viewing the quite frankly unsuccessful and a bit embarrassing events of the wkf Kumite, that karateka will have a good long think about what they actually do.
I reckon you need rules that allow joint breaks, full contact strikes and neck twists , knee breaks etc. btw I won’t be competing as karate is too dangerous to compete at.
Kake Kumite would be another excellent method sparring specifically Kata sparring for Karate. This needs to be looked into. Bogutsuki karate is also a good mid point between no contact and full contact. One can hit full force but due to the padding/armor the blows are greatly reduced. Head strikes are allowed yet elbow strikes are not, neither are headbutts and the usual...
Very nice video!! Quality content man! Quick question, I'm unable to find neither of the books referenced, does anyone know if it is still available to buy?
They need to replace shotokan with goju ryu. But no. The Olympics always choose shotokan. Plus, olympic/wtf taekwondo is also derived from shotokan(tang soo do) but with a full contact that watered down some elbow and knees or any techniques and strikes. Goju ryu is way better karate but they decided to used as a kata form not a full contact spar. Goju ryu is popularized by the karate kid films and cobra kai series
I think that a good hybrid approach would be interesting where they keep them pulling off punches and pads, but they would then make each valid contact from a punch or kick 1/10 of a point. This then will require each combatant to increase the volume of valid contacts and will create more of an inventive to set these strikes up with uke and the kind of stand up grappling that actually exists in karate. So, for example, you will get closer, clinch or do some wrist control, sweep and or take down, and otherwise pin your op in a way that you can fire clusters of strikes to accumulate enough to score a point before the ref breaks up the action. This will negate the dumbness of the rule set while still containing the savagery. So you can not be worried about eating 1 or 2 weak punches in order to get inside or to the flank in order to land 6 of your own. This will add more realism and still have the elements of safety.
I wish i could compete in the modern irikumi go tournaments... i do like the style i compete at tho... I practice a korean style called sipalki chaiumusul... The ruleset is as follows: Punches and kicks from the waist up, light contact... Any throw isnallowed... Can strike once during grappling, can strike once to oponent on the ground and can use a submission to win
It turns out that point sparring techniques are actually useful in MMA, as can be seen in the fighting styles of Lyoto Machida or Wonderboy... At any rate, the only way to really "pressure test" karate techniques is to do "kake-dameshi" like Motobu Choki, but you could end up in jail if you followed this method. I did know of a former cop who practiced boxing who would occasionally go to a part of Tokyo where young toughs would hang out and test his skills there...
I am so curious so much people are protecting point sparring😮 I think the problem isn't point, not even stupid rules, but misunderstanding for a what reason they are train. All this kata, yakusoku kumite, ets. were invented nor for fun, groving ego in competitions, or hurt another people on the street, yourself on full contact competitions or being ninja. It's the tool for survive. Survive and continue to groving rise, merchant, I don't know.
And on another point, is anyone with me that Karate Combat is a bad format? I mean the concept is like "let's take karateka with a point sparring background and pit (no pun intended) them against each other in a MMA / kickboxign mashup rule set, disciplines to wich the skill of sport karate doesn't translate or at least very minimally (as Goju Ryu Philosopher mentioned in the video)" I mean sure the idea of a full contact karate competition with every fight being like a machida/wonderboy highlight reel is nice but honestly (and no disrespect to the athletes competing) the competitiors are simply not experienced enough. They aren't very good strikers compared to other full conatct disciplines like muay thai or k1, due to no fault of their own since they had at best a year to prepare for this relatively new form of combat sport and if the current level of striking manifests itself as the "karate combat standard" then it's unlikely that this is going to change. Since they are new to full contact competition and lack composure they get spooked and just throw haymakers at each other, not the gracefull karate displayed by the likes of machida and wonderboy in the octagon. The end result isn't good sport karate nor good mma striking or kickboxing. I mean you can even see that they realize this themselves wich is why they already started recruiting non-karateka or at least ones with MMA experience... I don't know, I really don't find it interesting to watch. They have knockouts, sure super exciting. So does security camera footage. The full contact striking skills on display are about the same...
@@rxj0765 I have nothing against kyokushin, they do their thing and it looks good. It's the rule set they perfected fighting under and it shows, the same thing could of course happen whith let's say shotokan practitioners under kyokushin rules. The channel Kyokushinbull has a video that showcases this perfectly in which a legit Kyokushin black belt fights someone who seems to never have fought under Kyokushin rules and it shows...
I have a couple of specific gripes with the KC ruleset but I think KC is a net positive for the preservation and advancement of Karate. KC is still in its infancy so it makes sense that its fighters haven't adapted to full contact yet. I see this as an opportunity for karateka to develop (or redevelop) real fighting skills without extensively cross-training and I recognize that it will take some growing pains to get there.
Ultimately WKF/JKA Kumite does make sense for Japanese karate because you can feel the huge Budo influence in it. Kumite really does look like fencing/kenjustu. It makes sense because Japanese Karate is a metaphor of the Japanese Budo but in an empty handed way.
The Olympic decision was definitely a mistake. I'd be gutted to be gifted a gold I didn't deserve, but proud to earn a silver.
I do like point sparring as a sport or a "game", but I don't think it's very good for self defense. Nice to see you mention it
Great video as always Goju Philosoper! Maybe we need to start looking at sport karate as a new martial art of it's own, there is nothing wrong with point sparring karate as long as you are being honest with yourself and your students about what you are training and what not. In the words of Funakoshi "Times change, the world changes, and obviously the martial arts must change too." and for those looking for more combat oriented martial arts you can always cross train in kickboxing and BJJ... or start your own karate style that does it "right" xD
I pushed myself to be the best at WKF Kumite when I was younger. It was fun, no denying that.
But at some point, you have to realize as a Karateka that Karate is not limited to 1-on-1 combat with set rules and a referee. Maybe that's the reason why I shifted my focus on practicing Kata and doing pressure testing through simulating scenarios that can happen in real life like being ganged up from out of nowhere.
Great video as usual! and great move to have your own Patreon!
Maybe we should include grappling as well as striking, Karate is after all not supposed to be striking only.
I would love to see a competetive format with full contact striking and grappling. Its not as viable for hobbyists, but you could still include light/semi contact striking as well as grappling
In simple terms: On one hand because of the so call Olympic Karate there are countries that for the first time in history were able to bring an Olympic medal back home, on the other hand, Karate was not meant to be a sport, the way people spar in a WKF match is not contain in the Kata. Point fighting will not work in a self defense situation.
I think that kata/bunkai is purely about self-defense and it's non-consensual while sparring/street fight is often consensual.
Therefore no matter what sparring format we have, we never can apply directly all kata technique since the whole context is different.
What do you think?
Great video, with regards to those who love and practice point style sparring then good, you do you but remember you're training to earn points under the watchful eyes of referees, you don't train to hit hard or grapple effectively, that's the difference.
The problem is point style sparring is not a good representation of the art as a whole. So the solution is to actually include a style of sparring that would encompass everything, kind of like kudo style sparring.
At the dojo I train at we do kickboxing and sparring that includes grappling and striking.
My instructor said it would be a good idea to just get rid of it and introduce a universal kickboxing event. That way you include kickboxers, muay Thai fighters and karateka without excluding anyone.
I hope viewing the quite frankly unsuccessful and a bit embarrassing events of the wkf Kumite, that karateka will have a good long think about what they actually do.
Excellent presentation! How rare to find a karateka who is so widly read.
I reckon you need rules that allow joint breaks, full contact strikes and neck twists
, knee breaks etc. btw I won’t be competing as karate is too dangerous to compete at.
Kake Kumite would be another excellent method sparring specifically Kata sparring for Karate. This needs to be looked into.
Bogutsuki karate is also a good mid point between no contact and full contact. One can hit full force but due to the padding/armor the blows are greatly reduced. Head strikes are allowed yet elbow strikes are not, neither are headbutts and the usual...
Very nice video!! Quality content man! Quick question, I'm unable to find neither of the books referenced, does anyone know if it is still available to buy?
They need to replace shotokan with goju ryu. But no. The Olympics always choose shotokan. Plus, olympic/wtf taekwondo is also derived from shotokan(tang soo do) but with a full contact that watered down some elbow and knees or any techniques and strikes.
Goju ryu is way better karate but they decided to used as a kata form not a full contact spar. Goju ryu is popularized by the karate kid films and cobra kai series
I think that a good hybrid approach would be interesting where they keep them pulling off punches and pads, but they would then make each valid contact from a punch or kick 1/10 of a point. This then will require each combatant to increase the volume of valid contacts and will create more of an inventive to set these strikes up with uke and the kind of stand up grappling that actually exists in karate.
So, for example, you will get closer, clinch or do some wrist control, sweep and or take down, and otherwise pin your op in a way that you can fire clusters of strikes to accumulate enough to score a point before the ref breaks up the action.
This will negate the dumbness of the rule set while still containing the savagery. So you can not be worried about eating 1 or 2 weak punches in order to get inside or to the flank in order to land 6 of your own. This will add more realism and still have the elements of safety.
I wish i could compete in the modern irikumi go tournaments... i do like the style i compete at tho... I practice a korean style called sipalki chaiumusul... The ruleset is as follows:
Punches and kicks from the waist up, light contact... Any throw isnallowed... Can strike once during grappling, can strike once to oponent on the ground and can use a submission to win
Enshin / Ashihara rules are the best ones. Imo.
What about oyama traditional kyokushin?
It turns out that point sparring techniques are actually useful in MMA, as can be seen in the fighting styles of Lyoto Machida or Wonderboy... At any rate, the only way to really "pressure test" karate techniques is to do "kake-dameshi" like Motobu Choki, but you could end up in jail if you followed this method. I did know of a former cop who practiced boxing who would occasionally go to a part of Tokyo where young toughs would hang out and test his skills there...
I am so curious so much people are protecting point sparring😮 I think the problem isn't point, not even stupid rules, but misunderstanding for a what reason they are train. All this kata, yakusoku kumite, ets. were invented nor for fun, groving ego in competitions, or hurt another people on the street, yourself on full contact competitions or being ninja. It's the tool for survive. Survive and continue to groving rise, merchant, I don't know.
And on another point, is anyone with me that Karate Combat is a bad format? I mean the concept is like "let's take karateka with a point sparring background and pit (no pun intended) them against each other in a MMA / kickboxign mashup rule set, disciplines to wich the skill of sport karate doesn't translate or at least very minimally (as Goju Ryu Philosopher mentioned in the video)" I mean sure the idea of a full contact karate competition with every fight being like a machida/wonderboy highlight reel is nice but honestly (and no disrespect to the athletes competing) the competitiors are simply not experienced enough. They aren't very good strikers compared to other full conatct disciplines like muay thai or k1, due to no fault of their own since they had at best a year to prepare for this relatively new form of combat sport and if the current level of striking manifests itself as the "karate combat standard" then it's unlikely that this is going to change. Since they are new to full contact competition and lack composure they get spooked and just throw haymakers at each other, not the gracefull karate displayed by the likes of machida and wonderboy in the octagon. The end result isn't good sport karate nor good mma striking or kickboxing. I mean you can even see that they realize this themselves wich is why they already started recruiting non-karateka or at least ones with MMA experience... I don't know, I really don't find it interesting to watch. They have knockouts, sure super exciting. So does security camera footage. The full contact striking skills on display are about the same...
I agree, karate combat looks pretty horrible and violent, almost as ugly as Kyokushin kumite
@@rxj0765 I have nothing against kyokushin, they do their thing and it looks good. It's the rule set they perfected fighting under and it shows, the same thing could of course happen whith let's say shotokan practitioners under kyokushin rules. The channel Kyokushinbull has a video that showcases this perfectly in which a legit Kyokushin black belt fights someone who seems to never have fought under Kyokushin rules and it shows...
I have a couple of specific gripes with the KC ruleset but I think KC is a net positive for the preservation and advancement of Karate. KC is still in its infancy so it makes sense that its fighters haven't adapted to full contact yet. I see this as an opportunity for karateka to develop (or redevelop) real fighting skills without extensively cross-training and I recognize that it will take some growing pains to get there.
What were some of the Merikan rules?
Ultimately WKF/JKA Kumite does make sense for Japanese karate because you can feel the huge Budo influence in it.
Kumite really does look like fencing/kenjustu.
It makes sense because Japanese Karate is a metaphor of the Japanese Budo but in an empty handed way.
not with wkf
WKF Kumite is nothing but a glorified game of who can tag who faster. It doesn’t prepare you at all for a real fight in a ring or on the street….
LOL. I was wondering when you would bring up that bullshit call.