Agree with you about the last move in Saifa. That's the interpretation that I was taught many, many years ago (Higa / Izumikawa lineage). In military jargon, it is called a sentry kill. And it IS lethal.
Thanks for the interpretations. I believe that you're correct, the basic analysis of Kata presented is very similar to what I am currently learning in the Shorei-Kan style at our USA HQ under Shihan Scott Lenzi. A big thing that stands out is that fact that the kata always starts with a blocking technique. There's no first punch in karate!
You made some excellent points on this video, as I would expect from you to be fair! I completely agree with the idea of diversifying "practicality" and "deadliness" for two main reasons: 1) the human body is incredibly good at not dying when faced with threats from an unarmed opponent and not taking into account accidents (ie: you hit your head on table while being slammed to the ground) 2) outside the context of battlefield based martial arts civilian protection based arts must take into the account a modicum of proportionality as I can't imagine a single point in history where killing a person in a city or village setting because he called your mom names or tried to take you wallet wasn't a problem. Hence, I do agree that most interpretation of Kata should fit into the mold of relatively simple chains of reactions against mostly non lethal attacks from either untrained or trained opponents. Moreover, I also believe that real life applications are not always conclusive by themselves, so they give you a way of dealing with a problem in principle for you to then experiment and adapt upon on a specific situation. Example, first technique in Saifa: The Kata Is telling us that when confronted with an attacker who's trying to control our limb while trying to hit us (even though that's not shown in the standard bunkai because you know, it doesn't look nice) we should: - use the free arm to increase leverage - move inside the attacker to shut down his attack (and a good old shoulder bump is IMHO hinted in the movement) and away from the central line - use our own momentum and inertia to overcome the resistance and free ourselves or use a joint locking technique to at least disrupt balance In my interpretation the shiko dachi/uraken part simply means "now you've put yourself in an advantageous position, you're in a grappling situation, take the initiative and do something" Using this kind of framework we can actually see how Kata gives you basic principles to deal with different scenarios, which can then be extended upon. I hope this makes sense 🤣 I'm actually going to film some of these ideas in a video series on my channel, someday, somehow and I think I'll be able to explain myself way better 🤣
Great video, very interesting. The principles on Kata remind me a lot of Vince Morris' rules of combat. Death touches are absolutely real but they do take time. To quote from Enter the dojo *places arm on Bob, therefore making death touch contact* I befriend Bob and wait for him to die of old age, 100% effectiveness. Also with the neck cranks/breaks, I've met quite a few karateka who learnt that, personally I don't believe in it, or like it's practice......... No matter how hard they tried it never worked and just hurt 😂 D4C!!!!!
Cool video btw were did you get that shirt? I'd so wear the hell out of it. I heard you helped out Art Of One Dojo in on of there up coming videos. I am excited for that. By the way I see your copy of Lone Samurai in your book case and a book of Masutatsu Oyama with your gloves, OSU!
The shirt actually comes from a gasshuku my home dojo ran way back when I was still young and small. It's actually originally the shirt that my mother got because she used to train with me, but mine doesn't fit me anymore but hers does! I'm sure I could make a similar shirt for merch one day though, that is if I ever get around to merch. I'm excited as well. Mr. Dan was great to work with, and the video is going to be amazing! And well spotted on those books! I'm reading through and translating the one on Oyama, which was a random find for free at a local Japanese grocery store. Link is here (www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%A4%A7%E5%B1%B1%E5%80%8D%E9%81%94%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AF%E4%BD%95%E3%81%8B%EF%BC%9F%EF%BC%88%E7%B4%99%E3%81%AE%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B9%E5%85%AC%E5%BC%8F%E8%AA%AD%E6%9C%AC%EF%BC%89-%E5%B1%B1%E5%8F%A3%E6%98%87/dp/B007V8L6PW) though it seems like it isn't sold outside of Japan. It's been an interesting read so far.
I really like your thinking on this matter. I tend to see most of the techniques in kata to be potentially crippling and incapacitating. Of course, nukite, straight punches, leopard paw, or phoenix eye strikes to the front of the throat can be lethal. Also, of course, a powerful enough upper palm heel strike with jing under the jaw could possibly snap a neck. Likewise, and I think you mentioned this, a straight palm strike with jing direct into the face could also possibly result in a neck break. Another potentially lethal strike is the elbow thrown in Gekisai, Shishochin, Suparinpei, and Sanseiru. This elbow striking under the jaw could also possibly break a neck, and, in addition, the same elbow could strike directly into the heart potentially causing immediate death. Thanks for a great topic!
Where did you go? For a new project,how about making a series on the various styles of karate, what is their origin,their characteristics , how effective they are and why. This would be finally an index of karate styles and their spirits. Expecially made by someone that aspire to the true soul of the art and not the sport. I would personally help with whatever you would need ,for translation or infomation gathering,since it is a project i wanted to embark on personally.
There's one Okinawa Ryu of Kara Te that is composed of lethal strikes. It comes from Chinese Panghai Noon. Uechi Ryu is a school of almost exclusive lethal counter attacks. Shinjo Kiohide killed an opponent in Okinawan Kumite using an Uechi Ryu toe kick to the temple.
What a coincidence, I am reading Giles' Hopkins book on kata and bunkai these days and I had the same thougths about it. Why would you want to kill someone defending yourself. I think techniques that end the fight but also harm your opponent as less as possible are more effective, certainly concerning self defense's consequences after the fight, i.e. contact with withnesses, police and the law. You don't want to end up in jail because you killed someone with a neck snap even though it was in self defense. The violence and force you use in self defense should always be related to the level of danger your opponent(s) presents. I asume this was not otherwise in the days karate was created. Nice video! Thanks for sharing.
"The violence and force you use in self defense should always be related to the level of danger your opponent(s) presents. " Why are you assuming that the technique is NOT being used against a deadly attack? I've defended against baseball bats, knives, and even been shot at. I'm very happy I prepared for the worst and not the everyday.
Great reflexion and very well exposed!! I wanted to start building up my Goju Ryu library. Seeing how you have read tons of books on the matter, where do you recommend me to start? Any "must have" you can recommend? Many thanks!!
@@jean4j_ Not the grappling that is obviously in kata. The stuff that he tries to hard to "find". I'm talking about when the amount of "interpretation" to find a grappling application just isn't worth the trouble. The point where it's just makes more sense to just cross train any grappling art as almost every founder of Karate recommend.
Re: Neck-Breaking... Breaking a neck via a hangman's noose is both an art & science which takes a lot of knowledge, thought, & skill; & it's not easily learned or applied. Breaking a neck by hand can be done by any number of techniques (that follow any simple neck-breaking principle - of which there's more than one to choose from); & some techniques are very easy to learn & apply (while others are more difficult to do - requiring more strength, or skill; & then some are quite elaborate or tricky/sly). Note: A not-so-well-done by-hand neck-break technique can end up as a neck-tweak technique (just as a hangman's error could cause neck trauma without breaking the neck).
Q: Ought Bunkai be done EXACTLY as in a Kata? A: Yes, & then No... There's at least one - if not several - techniques that can be done using an exact same motion as found in a kata; but kata teaches more than specific technique(s): it also teaches, among other things, energy flow(s) from which many variations can spring (including both extremely-harmful/deadly variations & 'friendly' less-harmful variations); so, one can practice variations as well as exactly as in kata. And this brings up an issue: one might want to find out if one is practicing a serious fighting kata or a modified sport kata (because some otherwise 'deadly' kata may have already been changed for sport use)... For instance, in the sport-version of kata Bassai Dai one circles his own hands low towards one another (for a 'friendly' simultaneous double-strike on each side of an opponent's torso); but the original, serious version of the kata has one circling one's hands low-&-forward to simultaneosly strike inward just below the lowest ribs, or upon the lowest ribs (there are some angle variations of this available, but any variation of this more forward method is extremely un-friendly & potentially fatal). So, whether Bunkai is aimed at SPORT or at SELF-DEFENSE & whether or not the kata being practiced is set up for SELF-DEFENSE or SPORT ought to determine whether or not you do some Bunkai EXACTLY as in Kata or not.
It can and it has lethal techniques, is it focused on lethality? no. I think it's as simple as that, you have a plathera of techniques that allow to answer to any level of attack, a karateka should be able to stop a non lethal attacker on a non lethal way and a lethal attack on a lethal way.
I don t agree. If the Okinawan Karate and refers to Bubishi, and Bubishi is a military manual.. then Karate was practiced also from noble families practicing some type of jujutsu..which is military. Then why to make so sophisticate movements for the control of your body if this not superior on the use of a muscle in let s say combat sport. FInally why they should study kyusho points which in some cases result in the death of the opponent.
Yes but the founder of karate Anko Itosu,well also known as the grandfather of karate wrote “karate was never intended to be used in the arena or battlefield but rather for criminals and ruffians for self defense”
Agree with you about the last move in Saifa. That's the interpretation that I was taught many, many years ago (Higa / Izumikawa lineage). In military jargon, it is called a sentry kill. And it IS lethal.
Thanks for the interpretations. I believe that you're correct, the basic analysis of Kata presented is very similar to what I am currently learning in the Shorei-Kan style at our USA HQ under Shihan Scott Lenzi. A big thing that stands out is that fact that the kata always starts with a blocking technique. There's no first punch in karate!
Excelente video. Haces un gran trabajo.
You made some excellent points on this video, as I would expect from you to be fair!
I completely agree with the idea of diversifying "practicality" and "deadliness" for two main reasons:
1) the human body is incredibly good at not dying when faced with threats from an unarmed opponent and not taking into account accidents (ie: you hit your head on table while being slammed to the ground)
2) outside the context of battlefield based martial arts civilian protection based arts must take into the account a modicum of proportionality as I can't imagine a single point in history where killing a person in a city or village setting because he called your mom names or tried to take you wallet wasn't a problem.
Hence, I do agree that most interpretation of Kata should fit into the mold of relatively simple chains of reactions against mostly non lethal attacks from either untrained or trained opponents.
Moreover, I also believe that real life applications are not always conclusive by themselves, so they give you a way of dealing with a problem in principle for you to then experiment and adapt upon on a specific situation.
Example, first technique in Saifa:
The Kata Is telling us that when confronted with an attacker who's trying to control our limb while trying to hit us (even though that's not shown in the standard bunkai because you know, it doesn't look nice) we should:
- use the free arm to increase leverage
- move inside the attacker to shut down his attack (and a good old shoulder bump is IMHO hinted in the movement) and away from the central line
- use our own momentum and inertia to overcome the resistance and free ourselves or use a joint locking technique to at least disrupt balance
In my interpretation the shiko dachi/uraken part simply means "now you've put yourself in an advantageous position, you're in a grappling situation, take the initiative and do something"
Using this kind of framework we can actually see how Kata gives you basic principles to deal with different scenarios, which can then be extended upon.
I hope this makes sense 🤣
I'm actually going to film some of these ideas in a video series on my channel, someday, somehow and I think I'll be able to explain myself way better 🤣
Hope you keep up with the videos in the future
Great video, very interesting.
The principles on Kata remind me a lot of Vince Morris' rules of combat.
Death touches are absolutely real but they do take time. To quote from Enter the dojo *places arm on Bob, therefore making death touch contact* I befriend Bob and wait for him to die of old age, 100% effectiveness.
Also with the neck cranks/breaks, I've met quite a few karateka who learnt that, personally I don't believe in it, or like it's practice......... No matter how hard they tried it never worked and just hurt 😂
D4C!!!!!
Like your work. Keep it up!
Cool video btw were did you get that shirt? I'd so wear the hell out of it.
I heard you helped out Art Of One Dojo in on of there up coming videos. I am excited for that.
By the way I see your copy of Lone Samurai in your book case and a book of Masutatsu Oyama with your gloves, OSU!
The shirt actually comes from a gasshuku my home dojo ran way back when I was still young and small. It's actually originally the shirt that my mother got because she used to train with me, but mine doesn't fit me anymore but hers does! I'm sure I could make a similar shirt for merch one day though, that is if I ever get around to merch.
I'm excited as well. Mr. Dan was great to work with, and the video is going to be amazing! And well spotted on those books! I'm reading through and translating the one on Oyama, which was a random find for free at a local Japanese grocery store. Link is here (www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%A4%A7%E5%B1%B1%E5%80%8D%E9%81%94%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AF%E4%BD%95%E3%81%8B%EF%BC%9F%EF%BC%88%E7%B4%99%E3%81%AE%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B9%E5%85%AC%E5%BC%8F%E8%AA%AD%E6%9C%AC%EF%BC%89-%E5%B1%B1%E5%8F%A3%E6%98%87/dp/B007V8L6PW) though it seems like it isn't sold outside of Japan. It's been an interesting read so far.
I really like your thinking on this matter. I tend to see most of the techniques in kata to be potentially crippling and incapacitating. Of course, nukite, straight punches, leopard paw, or phoenix eye strikes to the front of the throat can be lethal. Also, of course, a powerful enough upper palm heel strike with jing under the jaw could possibly snap a neck. Likewise, and I think you mentioned this, a straight palm strike with jing direct into the face could also possibly result in a neck break. Another potentially lethal strike is the elbow thrown in Gekisai, Shishochin, Suparinpei, and Sanseiru. This elbow striking under the jaw could also possibly break a neck, and, in addition, the same elbow could strike directly into the heart potentially causing immediate death. Thanks for a great topic!
Where did you go? For a new project,how about making a series on the various styles of karate, what is their origin,their characteristics , how effective they are and why. This would be finally an index of karate styles and their spirits. Expecially made by someone that aspire to the true soul of the art and not the sport.
I would personally help with whatever you would need ,for translation or infomation gathering,since it is a project i wanted to embark on personally.
There's one Okinawa Ryu of Kara Te that is composed of lethal strikes.
It comes from Chinese Panghai Noon.
Uechi Ryu is a school of almost exclusive lethal counter attacks.
Shinjo Kiohide killed an opponent in Okinawan Kumite using an Uechi Ryu toe kick to the temple.
What a coincidence, I am reading Giles' Hopkins book on kata and bunkai these days and I had the same thougths about it. Why would you want to kill someone defending yourself. I think techniques that end the fight but also harm your opponent as less as possible are more effective, certainly concerning self defense's consequences after the fight, i.e. contact with withnesses, police and the law. You don't want to end up in jail because you killed someone with a neck snap even though it was in self defense. The violence and force you use in self defense should always be related to the level of danger your opponent(s) presents. I asume this was not otherwise in the days karate was created. Nice video! Thanks for sharing.
"The violence and force you use in self defense should always be related to the level of danger your opponent(s) presents. " Why are you assuming that the technique is NOT being used against a deadly attack? I've defended against baseball bats, knives, and even been shot at. I'm very happy I prepared for the worst and not the everyday.
Great reflexion and very well exposed!!
I wanted to start building up my Goju Ryu library. Seeing how you have read tons of books on the matter, where do you recommend me to start? Any "must have" you can recommend?
Many thanks!!
Now do a video on how Ian Abernathy is trying to hard to find stuff that isnt there.
Meaning grappling applications?
@@jean4j_ Not the grappling that is obviously in kata. The stuff that he tries to hard to "find".
I'm talking about when the amount of "interpretation" to find a grappling application just isn't worth the trouble. The point where it's just makes more sense to just cross train any grappling art as almost every founder of Karate recommend.
@@Tamales21 but he himself did that no?
Can you give a concrete example?, I've never seen him do something that makes no sense
…6 months anything new coming any time soon?
When applied correctly by a Karateka with the proper knowledge and strength karate is deadly very deadly.
And it is also really soft, a karateka should be able to do both, you don't really want to kill a child that's wailing at you in a tantrum.
Q: Is Karate lethal?
A: Yes (it can be).
Re: Neck-Breaking...
Breaking a neck via a hangman's noose is both an art & science which takes a lot of knowledge, thought, & skill; & it's not easily learned or applied.
Breaking a neck by hand can be done by any number of techniques (that follow any simple neck-breaking principle - of which there's more than one to choose from); & some techniques are very easy to learn & apply (while others are more difficult to do - requiring more strength, or skill; & then some are quite elaborate or tricky/sly).
Note: A not-so-well-done by-hand neck-break technique can end up as a neck-tweak technique (just as a hangman's error could cause neck trauma without breaking the neck).
Q: Ought Bunkai be done EXACTLY as in a Kata?
A: Yes, & then No...
There's at least one - if not several - techniques that can be done using an exact same motion as found in a kata; but kata teaches more than specific technique(s): it also teaches, among other things, energy flow(s) from which many variations can spring (including both extremely-harmful/deadly variations & 'friendly' less-harmful variations); so, one can practice variations as well as exactly as in kata.
And this brings up an issue: one might want to find out if one is practicing a serious fighting kata or a modified sport kata (because some otherwise 'deadly' kata may have already been changed for sport use)...
For instance, in the sport-version of kata Bassai Dai one circles his own hands low towards one another (for a 'friendly' simultaneous double-strike on each side of an opponent's torso); but the original, serious version of the kata has one circling one's hands low-&-forward to simultaneosly strike inward just below the lowest ribs, or upon the lowest ribs (there are some angle variations of this available, but any variation of this more forward method is extremely un-friendly & potentially fatal).
So, whether Bunkai is aimed at SPORT or at SELF-DEFENSE & whether or not the kata being practiced is set up for SELF-DEFENSE or SPORT ought to determine whether or not you do some Bunkai EXACTLY as in Kata or not.
Karate nerd should give a comment😂
What books about Karate do you recommend?
Did Bruce Lee receive a delayed death touch?
It can and it has lethal techniques, is it focused on lethality? no.
I think it's as simple as that, you have a plathera of techniques that allow to answer to any level of attack, a karateka should be able to stop a non lethal attacker on a non lethal way and a lethal attack on a lethal way.
I don t agree.
If the Okinawan Karate and refers to Bubishi, and Bubishi is a military manual..
then Karate was practiced also from noble families practicing some type of jujutsu..which is military.
Then why to make so sophisticate movements for the control of your body if this not superior on the use of a muscle in let s say combat sport.
FInally why they should study kyusho points which in some cases result in the death of the opponent.
Yes but the founder of karate Anko Itosu,well also known as the grandfather of karate wrote “karate was never intended to be used in the arena or battlefield but rather for criminals and ruffians for self defense”
@@AyeJordan7 it depends.
The kung fu it was connected with, and related to was for the battlefield
...at least you didn't piss off the techno-Karens by dropping the no-nos like "vaccine" "plandemic" etc. ;)
Hey! I sent you a message on your Instagram account. Would love to pick your brain about many different things!