Sunamp Heat Battery Review: Unveiling the Realities of Longevity and Reliability.
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- In this video about, ✅ Sunamp Heat Battery Review: Unveiling the Realities of Longevity and Reliability.
✅Sadly my 2nd Sunamp heat battery has failed after 18 months!
Sunamp HAVE been in touch, and im going to work with them and im taking on unit number 3, video will follow soon!
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2:30 reducing the valve will not reduce pressure, only flow rate
Indeed so. When there's no water flowing, then the pressure beyond the restriction equalises with the pressure in front of the restriction - i.e. you get maximum pressure. It's only when water is flowing that the pressure drops.
Yeah that was my thinking as well. there should be reduction valve to reduce pressure and not just flow rate. it works well in case if there is continues flow..that will reduce pressure but not once it will stop..so that could be the cause of the problem..
You can't adjust the water pressure using a simple ball valve, it will reduce the dynamic pressure i.e. when water is flowing, but the static pressure will always return to the same as the mains unless you have a pressure reducing valve at the main stopcock. Over here in Caithness the water pressure in rural/semi-rural areas tends to be very high, ours is usually around 8 bar so we have a pressure reducing valve to bring everything in the house down to 3 bar, I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure where you are is at a similar level.
I was gonna point out the same, but ya beat me to it.
Yeah, a ball valve on the line that feeds the system only serves to throttle the RATE of ACTIVE FLOW, not the static pressure it will settle out to once the downstream demand has been met (re: because the ball valve on the feed line remains open).
Thus, if you have high ambient water pressure, the ball valve creates (at most) a very brief reduction that only lasts during refilling.
JP. The valve you have restricted only reduces the flow. When there is no water flow the pressure either side of the valve is the same. You need a pressure reduction valve which moves to keep the down side at the set pressure. Roger C
Exactly what I came to say.
My SunAmp is coming up to 4 years old. I have had no issues, I noticed that the heater element max is 2.8kW so I adjust the eddi to max out at that. I've heated it using both my ASHP and the Eddi in that time.
Great tip ! 👍
Ripped out all Sunamp; have stuck with Mixergy for 6 years - FANTASTIC - works with Eddi , heats top to bottom
The latest model (they superseded yours too) has an installation document that REQUIRES a pressure relief valve in the cold water pass through circuit. Something they previously crowed about as being a plus for the technology……..
Some plumbing will be needed if you decide to take another swap out.
Opening the valve, any amount will not reduce the resting pressure only the running pressure when there is demand on the unit. You need a special preasure reducing valve to do that. I have one to stop preasure knocking in my pipes when the loo has finished filling that got my pipes clatering.
This is concerning, as we have one of their earlier large heat batteries (Uniq 12+iPV).
Yours will of course still be under guarantee, so the follow-up video is eagerly awaited.
It could be the vessel isn't large enough to allow for the expansion. And make sure the precharge air pressure is the same as your cold water pressure so that the vessel has max expansion volume while it heats up.
We used to have a Sunamp (Low Temperature/larger unit) but swapped over for a Mixergy tank a year ago. The issues we had with the Sunamp were that it not really work with our low temperature heat pump and offered little control ( with its on/off switch). While the Mixergy tank with its app and online control works so much better for us.
That's a shame. Was liking the idea of the Sunamp for hot water when I eventually lose the combi boiler as no Legionella cycles to worry about and in theory more efficient than a standard water tank. Does seem like there's a need for a pressure reducer (closing a valve 90% just reduces flow, does nothing for high static pressure, and would actually increase pressure cycling downstream). Looks like a different failure mode from last time at least.
Agree with all comments here about moving to Mixergy, had mine for almost 3yrs and works perfectly and combines well with the Eddi for the solar divert.
Hey Jonathan - we have a solar thermal. Obviously it's much better in a hotter country like Portugal, but we love it. It's basically an immersion heater linked to a thermal solar panel(s). You can add a heating element to it - which surely could then work along with an eddy (although, if the un isn't shining then you don't have spare solar..... but you can use the overnight tariff, obviously). I must say, it doesn't have to be a hot day for it to work, but it does need direct sunshine. Maybe worth a gander if version 3 doesn't work!
In Portugal I guess you can use those roof mount solar thermal systems that don’t have to deal with freezing conditions?
@@edc1569 Definitely. There are systems where only the panels are on the roof, with the tank inside - the heat exchange fluid stuff (technical term!) has antifreeze etc, for sure, and the pipes are all insulated - so it can likely cope with freezing temperatures if it's set up right. However, there is no denying that the returns diminish as the sun diminishes. :( We almost always have hot water for free - only when we have a couple of days of total cloud is it a problem. The pump is solar powered as well - so it just needs water! :)
I'm told in all new builds in Portugal they are obligatory now.
as others have said a pressure valve is needed to drop the water pressure down to 3bar, but 18 months not good your the second person i know with this issue in the new models, they got swapped out for the new gen Thermino too, so far no problems.but its only a few months old, like others said it did need a in line pressure reducer to 3 bar, (cracking just lowers the flow not pressure) i get why the heat loss is a lot better than tanks, some may mention mixergy but a good heat pump tank but size carefully many are c rated., even the new heatable tank looks intresting option or one like ono may be better, ono also go by the name of panasonic heat pump tanks, this is what I have and it was excellent in the annex but again make sure you fit a in line pressure reducer to 3 bar if your inline pressure is more it may need a commercial tank instead rated to 15 bar
Nice piece on Channel 4 news ....
Would love to see a tear down. Take a look at the heat exchanger and see what's failing there.
We did consider sunamp but could not find an installer. Ended up with a 210lt mixergy. Seems to work well enough and given you have batteries i qould not bother with any solar diverter. Let the mixergy keep the water hot and set it to heat on normal cycle. Ut will use cheap rate anyway plus just top up from batteries. If you uae solar diverter it turns a mixergy into a dumb mode or it did for us. Ours is working fine with a heat pump ....
If you have space I highly recommend installing a Jaspi Ultrastore. They're approximately the same size as a fridge freezer, hold 500 litres of water and allow heat input from multiple sources. Ours is set-up to use a heat pump, solar thermal and excess solar PV, but could easily use overnight cheap rate electricity. It then provides all our central heating and hot water, it can also store enough heat for about two days of demand in winter so if there's a storm forecast we'll boost the temperature up to 95c in case of a power cut.
Thanks for testing this JP, so we don’t have to.😢
Hi bud. Looks like a heat pump is the way to go for you guys?? Also, closing the valve won't reduce the pressure, only under flow. As soon as the flow stops the pressure will build up to equalise each side of the valve. Hope you get it sorted quickly 😔
Jonathan has air to air heating, which is why he has a relatively exotic water heater.
Channel 4 tonight 👍
Did it really save you any energy in the long run I'm of the thinking we are just over complicating things all you need is a tank and an element
We've just installed a 300 'X Plus' sunamp, because it lets us reheat it each night on cheap rate electricity, and then every litre of hot water it produces through the day is at exactly the same temperature, there's no need for any 'top ups' through the day ?
And we chose the X Plus model, because it will let us use our high temp heat pump to heat it later, too, which will reduce the cost and energy it uses even more ...
The greatest benefit of this tech is that it takes up less space for the equivalent size of cylinder. In my previous house I seriously considered a Sunamp precisely because we didn't have room for the size of cylinder required by building regs. Didn't end up doing the work in the end.
@@matthewseymour8972 Yes, we've just installed one for precisely that reason, (as well as a couple of others) - the only fitted cupboard in our entire house was half-filled witha 300 litre thermal store, that has now been removed and replaced by a 300 litre-equivalent sunamp, elsewhere in the house, - and so far, very pleased !
Thanks for being an early adopter.
Your experience and many others have shown that these are not the solution.
It may be due to issues with this version of the appliance as @stevechambers8869 suggests in another comment. Perhaps more recent versions of the appliance can still be a solution for some with A2A?
A Thermino is a solution for the space constrained (i.e. me!) where a large tank of water (from any manufacturer) isn't. But I'm concerned that lots of Thermino owners have had issues. Can you share some links?
@@iainwoolley4354 search for the heat geek combi cylinder.
That can fit anywhere. 👍
Does it have a pressure relief valve? It should have for safety. Water expands a lot even at temperaturs well below boiling. If no taps or appliances are drawing off water your hot circuit will gain pressure as heat is applied and has to go somewhere. The expansion vessel is there for normal operation but has a limit. That one looks tiny to me. Could be they needed a larger expansion vessel.
Sunamp units don't contain a large volume of water like a conventional tank. The amount of expansion is very small.
First off you cannot reduce the water pressure by closing the valve a bit, the reason is quite simple the pressure will equalise each side of the valve when water isn’t being used. To reduce the pressure you have to fit a pressure reducing valve. It’s interesting to see you have an expansion vessel and yet I don’t see a pressure release valve! A pressure release valve is to protect against excessive water pressure that might build up if the expansion vessel fails. Water expands as it’s heated and that’s where the expansion vessel comes into play. I also don’t see a non return valve on the cold water supply or am I missing something.
Well this is disappointing! I'd finally managed to find someone who has a Sunamp and explained to me that these things *will* work straight off grid electricity. I was all decided that the Sunamp is the way to go for hot water and now you've made me doubt it.
However from reading some of the knowledgeable sounding comments it could just be a case of yours nor being installed correctly...? 🤔
I'd have to watch that too because our water runs at high pressure.
Anyway, I'm sorry youre all disappointed, hope you're able to make the suggestions made here and maybe try again...?
Have a feeling youre done with it though! Will you be going for the Mixergy with its clever tech and economy or just a plain old immersion and be done with it?
Hope you get to make the follow-up video soon.🤞👍
Thank you for sharing
I prefer the simplicity of a solar PV system that diverts excess power to the HW tank element via the EDDI, which has worked well for me for the last five years. In my case, gas consumption has dropped by 1500-2000 units each year, or 15-20% of the typical annual figure.
Nearly all the rest of my power is consumed on-site with minimal export, despite the lack of battery storage.
Export rates on Octopus tariffs can be 15p/kWh. Some find export better than battery or self consumption these days.
I've just had another look at your original 'My Sunamp has failed' video, and I notice that you're using the same small expansion vessel ?
Is there a specific reason for that ?
I've just had a 300 'X Plus' installed, and my expansion tank is much bigger ?
(I don't know if my larger vessel was specified, or if it was just the one that was 'available' ?)
I just wonder about it, because 'it' is the same, and the problem seems to be the same, - too much pressure 'somewhere', making something 'burst' or leak ?
Hi Nick , good point , i know nothing about plumbing and pressures etc , but will pass on your comments to sunamp when they call in to replace this unit 😉
@@JonathanPorterfield Thanks Jonathan , neither do I, but I just think that when something needs to expand, it needs to expand 'somewhere', so maybe if your expansion vessel isn't big enough for your specific circumstances, then that expansion is finding its next 'weakest link', which sadly appears to be somewhere in your Sunamp ... ?
I would like to add that air which is infused in the incoming water separates from it under heat, expanding especially greatly when heated extremely, maybe even to steam). Air builds up in my simple hot water heater, and I get several seconds of fast flowing hot water from the tap until it slows down to a crawl. Growing up, all our hot water rads had a pressure release valve, like a bicycle air valve, which we burped occasionally. Another example, I also tip my water filters upside down when running to release trapped air, so pathogens don't grow. Air seperates from water, it's a thing.
The solution to balance pressure is to employ a diaphragm tank. The one you showed looks comically small in comparison to a stock hot water heater diagram tank. Even RVs have larger diagram pressure vessels. An air pressure release valve should take care of air build up.
May I suggest:
1)a proper, good quality house pressure regulator just for your tank, (or simply reduce main house pressure.valve)
2) Larger Pressure diagram tank (before the heater, after the new pressure reducing valve, and not on the high temp outlet side, as the high heat is probably too great for it)
3) an air pressure release valve, probably after the high temp water outlet side
A plumber should chime in here, I am a novice. The unit may have one way valves to stop the expanding water from pushing backwards in to the city pipes and contaminating your neighbour's water supply. In which case, putting the diagram before the heater as i suggested might not do any good. Perhaps that's what your little potentially undersized diagram is, a special, expensive high temperature diaphragm.
What hasn't the Sun company already sussed this out? Any telephone operator should be able to diagnose these elemental issues. Warranty service and returns are expensive and bad for reputation, not to mention make for unnecessary house damage and customer stress.
I'm looking at installing a Tepeo boiler which I believe uses similar technology? So it's a bit concerning hearing about the problems you are having.
I'm pretty sure the Tepeo uses ceramics heated to very high temperature approximately 600c rather than the lower temperature phase change of the SunAmp
The Sunamp Thermino and tepeo ZEB are thermal stores for different purposes. The Thermino is a thermal store for providing domestic hot water, while the ZEB is a thermal store for providing space heating. They also use very different technologies to store heat. The Thermino uses phase change material as its thermal store, and stores latent heat. The ZEB uses a solid, high-density material as its thermal store, and stores sensible heat. As a result the ZEB stores its thermal energy at much higher temperatures than the Thermino, but also stores more energy than the biggest Thermino.
Well, JP, the problems of being an early adopter! My comiserations, sir.
I nearly went down this route due to space but fortunately I found a tank that fitted the space, luckily?
Shame, hope the sodium acetate didn't leak. I'm sure heat batteries have a place for some applications.
Would be very interested to know if, when it was working 2nd time round, did it work, did it meet your expectations? Very few UA-cam video on sunamp.
I've just had a 300 'X-Plus installed (A week ago !) - And am very pleased with it so far !
I'm just using the built in immersion heater to heat it overnight, until we get our high-temp heat pump installed, which we will then use to heat it instead (Which is why we chose the 'X-Plus', as it allows us to do that)
But even though we only heat it overnight, it still produces piping hot water, at exactly the same temperature, throughout the day, which is amazing !
- and it let us get rid of our disgusting oil-fired boiler, which is wonderful !
I have two, a 3 Kw in the kitchen (electric only) and a 12Kw( heated by solar diverter, grid or gas boiler) and all working perfectly. It's certainly a worry about them leaking though! Likely to cause a lot of damage to the building. Fingers crossed it's not a common issue.
are you getting a regular unvented cylinder?
Johnathan any news yet from sunamp
Yes , video next week ! 🙌
@@JonathanPorterfieldthere’s a longer list of plumbing components ‘mandatory’ now for the current models.
A pressure reducing valve and a back pressure relief valve are both required on the supply.
I wonder wonder why…….
Very disappointing. Hopefully it just needs a “control group” valve to reduce the mains pressure to 3 bar, as per current installation manual.
Video follow up next week 🙂👍👍
I'd suggest a heat pump hot water tank if you can afford it.
Maybe look at a heat store where the tank is the reverse of the normal design and a lot safer. Won't explode and take half your house out.
Were these installed as part of the trail/grant funded maybe 5 years ago ?
Yes in Orkney, was called the 'smile project'
It was always overpriced compared to a water cylinder, but its USP was the space saving nature of it. It's now much more expensive than LiFePO4 chemistry batteries per kWh of storage and you can use a battery for many more things. Ger rid.
What have Sunamp said
it's had a wee, get a heat pump 7.5k grant, think it may be more in "hock i the new" land
Jonathan has air to air heating, which is why he has a relatively exotic water heater.
Mine leaked too. Heat exchanger broke and filled my front room with water. Not a PCM leak 😒
Which version did you have?
@@NickLaslett I had a Uniq 9, so early unit. 2018.
The technology is great, but the manufacturing is very poor