Jesus paid it all? How could he atone for my sins?
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2020
- How is it just for a judge to punish someone else rather than the criminal himself? Frank responds.
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#FrankTurek #JesusChrist #Atonement
I love the thumbnail they used. I believe it's from the new series "The Chosen".
I was about to comment that lol
Yup it is lol
Yep, I watched the series and loved it.
How I wish the fund raising to be completed already.
I'd like to know everyone's opinion about the actor, Johnathan Roumie, who portrays Jesus in Chosen and him being Catholic? I understand there are Believers and Non believers that work on that show as well as every other religious media entertainment and I've even enjoyed partaking in paying the series forward, just because it's such a powerful platform to advance the Kingdom of GOD...my issue is those who are babies in the faith, those who are lost and those who are impressionable could be so moved by the actor's portrayal and seek to know more about his personal life and are ultimately influenced by his religious practices and because they lack knowledge and understanding, are led astray...Christians who are more spiritually mature understand they can respect the talent of the actor and not be spiritually influenced by him but others who are spiritually docile could be easily persuaded, especially in today's social media culture...and just to be transparent, I'm not trying to be divisive in the Body Of Christ, but that doesn't apply here because Catholisim is not a denominational sect of Christianity...any thoughts
Hey! "The Chosen"! In all seriousness, I have always loved this concept of God stepping down from His "bench" to pay our fine.
Except paying for the fine of unbelief.... which means He didn’t pay it all.
@@dallasburns7806 your fine can not be paid if you are not willing to put your belief and faith in Jesus...
@@dallasburns7806 you don't understand belief, faith and trust....
He stepped out of heaven.
But he didn't have to step down to do that.
Instead he would have to step down to convince humans that it was done.
I like the little chorus which goes like this... "Christ paid a debt he did not owe, I owe a debt I could not pay, I needed someone to wash my sins away. And now I sing a brand new song, Amazing Grace... Christ paid a debt I owed, a debt I could not pay. *II Cor **5:17*
I don't owe any debt.
and I don't need anyone to wash my alleged sins away.
If a desert god decides to commit suicide
so he can rise from the dead
that is his decision
Just leave me out of it.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Whoever saw Jesus saw God.
Whoever spoke to Jesus spoke to God.
Whoever heard Jesus heard God.
Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus.
Jesus and God are one and are the same and both were before the beginning of the beginnings ... one is equal to the other.
And since Jesus and God are one, so it was Jesus who massacred the 50,070 people! Why !!!? Because they simply glanced at an arch, a box !!!
1 Samuel 6:19 says: “Jesus struck the people of Beth Schemesch when they looked at the ark of Jesus; he struck fifty thousand and seventy men among the people. ”
In the Bible (Hosea 13:16): "Samaria will be punished, because she rebelled against Jesus. They will fall by the sword; Their little children will be crushed, And the belly of their pregnant women will be split. " If the parents really sinned, but why did Jesus accept that small children and pregnant women with their fetuses be killed, what was their crime !!!?
Jesus who is love and loved the world so much that he ordered the massacre of innocent men, women, old people, children, babies, camels, donkeys, cows and donkeys ... but why !!!?
@@lamasabachthani2132
First, people are not innocent. Babies on the other hand get to heaven as they don't express a sinful behaviour yet. Once that moment of awareness comes, then they are held accountable. Heaven is full of children. For eternity, in glory, with the Lord. Yeah, I"ll be among them some day.
Second, those that were ordered to be killed were rebelling against God. Sinners worthy of death. Ripple effect comes into play here, too. Future generations could have done likewise. They were not innocent people merely being slaughtered by an unholy monster. No, they sinned against God.
Third, each of them, like you, have an opportunity to repent. Those that repent are forgiven. Those that choose not to, for whatever reason they express, are destroyed in life, or in hell.
@@RustyGunn7
Weird your interpretations ...
bible is on one side and your explanations are far from the writings of the bible
The innocent beasts were also sinners.
Innocent infants and children slaughtered and merciless by the men of your Mercy and God of love.
Imagine a believer cutting a two month old baby in half !!!!!!!
You are not ashamed of yourself.
Where Jesus was at that moment ... he and his father his ONE and one is in the other from the beginning !!!!!!!!!!!
@@RustyGunn7
Jesus or his father or hs uncle (!!!!?) who is love and loved the world so much that he ordered the massacre of innocent men, women, old people, children, babies, camels, donkeys, cows and donkeys ... but why !!!? Because the great-great-great-grandparents of these humans massacred the people of Israel (over 400 years ago), and these animals, what were their crimes !!! ? Perhaps their ancestors also participated directly or indirectly in the massacres of the children of Israel (1 Samuel 15: 3) !!!
@@RustyGunn7
Who was this God: the father of Jesus, Jesus or his uncle the God of Israel?
The sacrifice makes perfect sense when you understand the sacrifices the Father commanded in the Torah. But so many people ‘do away’ with the Old Testament. You miss everything that He lays out for us to live His way...
What the hell are you talking about? Blood sacrifice in the old testament is for unintentional sins and not intentional ones. Repentance is for intentional sins so stop lying
@@Dodoslayer747 blood sacrifices were for sins period as the sacrifices were meant as repentence
How does it make sense
It makes absolutely no sense in the context of an omniscient god.
Jesus fulfilled all the shadow types & promises in the OT that pointed to Him as the Messiah who takes away the sin of the world. The one true lamb of God.
That's why it's called "grace", brother, that's the beauty of it. Because God knows that no human can atone themself from sin, not with money, not with good moral and behaviour or with good deed, and the wages of sin is death. You simply cannot pay your sin, you can only be forgiven.
I didn't have any sin to begin with.
That's your game.
Have fun.
@@JamesRichardWiley waow! You mean you never lie? Never hate anybody? And maybe you can tell me, who teach a kid how to lie when they break their mom favorite vase?
The question was asked in heaven ' Who will take the punishment for the sins of man'. Only the lamb stepped forward for only he was worthy. Thank God for Jesus!
We forget something that yes God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, but also, we forget that God loves his name above anything else so he becomes a man Jesus of Nazareth to pay the find we made against him, that will send us to hell, in return now we have inherited heaven if we repent of our sins (do a 180 on our sins) and believe in the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ
Do you believe in salvation by works?
How could God be Jesus, when Jesus is referred to as God's only *begotten* son? Begotten is a very important word that seems to be overlooked by many.
@Saint Michael Pray for Us I'm curious then, if the Bible never says by faith alone and not by works salvation is obtained then what does Ephesians 2:8-9 mean
@Saint Michael Pray for Us And how does doing good works defined as God's grace?
@@dja-bomb6397 "Begotten" in context means unique or special
I think the difference between human judges and God is that the human judge doesn't write the law. God is both judge and the standard of law, so it is just for God to pay the penalty himself.
and can you show this god to exist and in the context he is claimed to exist?
Alan Baraka What kind of evidence would convince you? God coming to you? Hey, here I am...
@@evangelistkimpatrik evidence that is testable and conclusive. And if god can come down to me and verify he is god beyond any reasonable doubt why may I ask didn't he just do that for everyone ever born?
Evangelist Kim Patrik
It’s you claim
It’s your burden of proof
It’s up to you to supply whatever evidence you think will do the job.
The very fact you ask “ what evidence would convince you” is testament to the fact you know your evidence is shaky
Alan Baraka God did come in flesh to provide salvation for all. It is up to each of us to accept it or reject it.
Wonderful answer!
"But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." Romans 5:8 & 9
Christ creates us,
then dies for us.
Only if you believe it.
@@JamesRichardWiley Yep, it's true.
Jesus paid it all. All to Him I owe.
Pretty straightforward answer and an easy question.
I love this ministry, keep up the good work. God bless. Jesus saves.
“How come we don’t see that in court today? I mainly ask because I’m gonna go to jail” lol
Love the thumbnail......."The Chosen" season 2 filming has started 🙌 ❤🙏
The answer is man cannot overcome sin all by himself. It is said that all have sinned (Rom 3:23) which means that nobody is able to gain perfection by their own deeds.
Only God can make good our wrongs. Imagine it this way - God made man and man fell from a sin. Now we could simply say that God could've gone back in time and did now allow man to fall so that everything was perfect. But God knows everything and He very well knows the reason why He chose not to go back in time.
He instead decided to pay the penalty himself because like I said man cannot make himself perfect. But all that was asked from man was to only witness somebody else die instead of him so that he won't commit sins anymore.
You left out the part where Yahweh, the Hebrew god is all powerful and cannot make a mistake.
Then you say that god made a mistake which he can correct but he won't because he decided to be killed and rise from the dead instead.
Utter nonsense.
@@JamesRichardWiley I never said God made a mistake. I said man made a mistake and only God can correct that. And the fact that God is all powerful and can never make mistake is obvious.
You know growing up in a Christian household, many faith based questions just seem old hat like oh yea Jesus died for us duh...but this man's question reminded me that it does need to be explained to many people, because on the surface it doesn't make sense. I'm glad Frank is out there doing this.
Still doesn't make sense. For Jesus to "volunteer" to give his life he needs free will, but if this was God's plan from the foundation of the earth it wasn't really voluntary. How would one roll back the clock and demonstrate that Jesus could've made any decision differently?
It does not make sense for a good reason
It’s non-sense
@@dja-bomb6397 He had free will and laid down his life, by his own choice. Simultaneously, this was God's plan from the foundation of the world. It was God's will to crush him. How is this not a contradiction? It's not, because "in Christ, the fullness of God, lives in bodily form". God, manifested himself in the flesh. Jesus said in John 2 to the Jewish leaders, who were asking for a sign of him, that would prove his authority.
He told them "Destroy this temple, and I WILL raise it up again after three days"..."the temple he spoke about was his Body".
Therefore, since Jesus is the fullness of God in bodily form, he could rightfully say that he gave his life on his own accord, and simultaneously, it is equally correct to say that God gave his son, or that it was God's will to crush him, or as you said that God planned this before anything was made. Because Jesus is God in the flesh. The body of Jesus is the temple of God almighty - Jesus said he, himself, would raise his body from the grave.
@@iamfunnyipromise9605 he laid his life down with free will? Are you a liar or you just dont know your scripture?
He didnt say 3 days he said 3 days and 3 nights which didnt happen if you learnt to count, fri evening to Sunday not 3 days 3 nights.
Clearly you dont know your scriptures and you are just waffling what your pastor taught you 😂😂😂
@@Dodoslayer747 you gotta remember when Jesus pray to God in the forest if God would pass this cup from him that Jesus also said "not by my will but yours" so clearly Jesus had his own freewill but choose to follow along with Gods will because nobody wants to suffer the pain and death and Jesu did suffer before he died.
About the days this is were just a little but of studying could clear that up. During those times anytime during the day they counted it as "1" day including the night so friday,Saturday then Sunday fits with how they counted days back then
I think you should have spent more time on this Frank because you turned his question around a bit. Civil law (involving money) isn't exactly equatable to criminal law (i.e. murder, rape, etc.).
I actually uploaded a video on this not too long ago examining it more critically if anyone wants to take a look at it. It's under "Is Christianity Cosmic Child Abuse?" God bless.
A penalty can be anything so it actually equates fine.
God needed a sacrifice and an ordinary human being was not enough. He needed a sacrifice big enough to pay off the sins of mankind, so He sent His only son to be crucified.
When idiocy saw a Christian, she escaped as a deer escapes at the sight of the lion.
If someone asks you to describe him or give him a description of a foolish man, show him a Christian.
They say that the creator of the universe is embodied in the body of a human, it is like taking all the sea and pouring it into a small cup.
In the bible, Colossians 2:9 “ For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
All the fullness of the divinity (unlimited) entered the body of the child called Jesus (limited).
Great video. Subscribed!
@@lamasabachthani2132 I dont know if You noticed but you actually said quite well what was preached 2000 years ago. It is foolishness to those who are perishing but the foolishness of God to do this is wiser than man and the weakness of God is stronger than Man. In Your analogy the deer is foolishness and the Lion is Christianity and that is true you may have wrote that that way on accident but you wrote it, and accepting this truth makes foolishness flee. In mans wisdom we need to behave to go to Heaven. The same discrepancy exists here. How can finite good deeds earn eternal perfect life? It seems for eternal Life to Be possible it necessitates God, otherwise, we perish and that's it like atheists believe. So if eternal life by definition needs God the eternal how much of it depends on Him. I would say all of it. The same way a child has no choice on where or when and to whom he is born neither do we. As children we must must rely on God to save us or Provide eternal Life for us. And this is not for us only as even Abraham had faith that God would fulfill His promise to give Him a son. God said we would die when we sin in the Garden and what He said cannot be broken. We have to become eternal to partake in eternal life and that is only possible If Jesus becomes one with us. We can either be One with Him in Life or one with Him in death and God chose that we would be one in death, and One in new life. The ressurection of Jesus sets the precedent for eternal life and bodily ressurection. Ancient legal systems had a husband punished for his wifes crime and still negligent parents are punished for a child crime, but these are only rough approximations the truth is Jesus didnt pay for my sins. He united with me in My death on the cross, and He paid for Our sins on His own. The blood of guilt is on the head of the guilty I may be the body as H3 has said and I am. Even if I, from a human perspective, commit the sin, He is the head so He takes the responsibility. Hope this helps keep seeking truth.
But God's justice in eternity and according to His law isn't the same as man-made law.
Needed this
the courtroom situation is just an analogy ray comfort uses it all the time. substitutionary atonement is not applicable to the criminal justice system at least not here in South Africa. but it paints a good picture of what Christ’s work on the cross. by far the best way of explaining it even if you can’t really do that in Courts. if we could, the jails would be full of loving mothers taking the punishment for their sons
Then again the courts didn't call the universe into existence....
@@s3ntin3l60 your point?
@@maow9240 God can do as He sees fit. That's the point. It's interesting He chooses to stay within the confines of His laws though.
Or
All this could be just another religion
And there are no real gods
Just people that believe gods are real
@@mickqQ or it could mean God loved humanity so much he was willing to step down from heaven, dwell with them, feel what they feel emotionally and physically, and pay for humanity what we could never pay ourselves because of the hole we digged ourselves in from the beginning.
only virtue can rectify iniquity, only perfection can redeem shortcoming
@@mitchellc4 NONE AS HOLY AS THE LORD,, NONE CAN BE PERFECT
Love Dr Turek
Maybe doesn't make sense to us according to how we carry law, but the judge on this one is God. It was His desicion according to His law that it is acceptable to Him that His Son died for our sins so we can be save. It's up to the judge to accept the sactifice or not and according to God, Jesus sacrifies is acceptable.
There was a judge in Australia.. Who, had his best friend on trial in his court.
People wonder how would he judge as a friend or a judge of the law..
He gave his friend a very hefty fine.. The judge came down from the bench, shook his friends hand.. He sold his own house to pay the fine.
If I remember this correctly.
@@mitchellc4 nice story.. May I ask what you're point is?
Surprise he wasnt required to recuse himself
How can human beings be born guilty? That is unfair.
What's even more unfair was a man being condemned who was innocent.
It's not as much as being born guilty as it's being born with an inherited sin nature that will cause you to be guilty by your words and actions. We're guilty for things we've freely chosen to do.
@@festushaggen2563 if that's the case, shouldn't you try to stop people from doing anything? Shouldn't you just kill them right after they're out of the womb so they can go to heaven? Isn't that better than letting them possibly ruin their lives?
@@itsJPhere Then you wouldn't have a choice would you? It's apparent that not everyone wants to love, serve and worship God so why force them into Heaven?
Yet we all at some point repeated the sin of our ancestors and set off a similar domino effect in our own lives the first time we ever chose not to do what we knew to be right. Seems to be fully in line with readily-observable reality to me. Many people and religions have searched for a long time for a means to close this pandora's box but only Jesus Christ gives a working solution, restoring a choice we already threw away.
Did not answer the question -At All.
If I murdered, my father can not pay the penalty
I don’t think the afterlife will work like a Court in the US haha
Let's say, you're a serial killer and you've killed many people then your penalty is definitely the death sentence i.e hell, for God is a just God. But if you're sins are not that great then Jesus will forgive your sins for God is rich in mercy. I think it all depends on the kind of sins you've committed but more importantly, you need to put your trust in Jesus and sincerely repent. Peace!
I recommend for this topic, Ray Comfort
Ray does a good job but this guy's question is very good for the tactic Ray uses about the court. Sure, it's different because we're talking about God, but the question kinda blows up the earthly analogy.
Thank you both can you link me to a video where Ray explains this?
Banana guy :D
Saint Michael Pray for Us
Coming from a catholic? Haha.
Bible teaches justification by faith alone.
Why are you here then, since Frank is a Protestant too
Hey Michael I was hoping for a response from another video but i didn’t get it. Maybe you didn’t see it.
Catholics believe the blood of Jesus wasn’t enough.
@Saint Michael Pray for Us You guys astonish me with how prideful you can be, the one sin God absolutely detests.
And we would say the same for Catholics who worship false idols, and think doing hail Mary's will save them/ confession, who think they're a sinless people and call the Pope their Father, even your name is blasphemous putting someone before Jesus, repent (metanoia, meaning to have a change of mind) not forsake your sins and then change your mind, God leads us to repentance, God gives us a heart of flesh and a right spirit (his Holy Spirit) all glory to God, my advise is that you pick up your bible and read the inspired texts not the uninspired texts that condone everything God says he's against.
My Lord and my God John 20:28
The Judeo/Christian god Yahweh/Yeshua spoke to me last night.
He told me to stop praying since he already had everything under control.
The criminal is still guilty. But if the fine is paid, the defendant is set free. The law has been satisfied.
I love the chosen too
The penal substitution view fails to due justice of what Christ's actual atonement was and how Christ saves beyond the cross alone
That’s is not an argument against the truth of penal substitution but against the sufficiency of PS for salvation, which everyone agrees with. We need to accept Jesus’ sacrifice through faith and the holy spirit needs to sanctify us.
The Lord revealed to me why the blood of Christ is so precious and why it can pay off the debt of our sins. It is what's in the blood that is so valuable: within one's blood is their inheritance (physical and spiritual), which is passed down from generation to generation. So what's in the blood of Christ? It is His eternal inheritance which is the kingdom of Heaven, passed down from the Father. When someone is saved by the blood of Jesus, God reaches into His own treasury in Heaven and pays off their debt in full.
It was his ultimate way of showing how we are supposed to love one another it's a simple as that
sacrifice our life of happiness, fairness, understanding, debts, exc. just like in a relationship when your spouse wants something different and you dont.. but you go with it because you want to make your spouse happy even though it doesnt for you...its sacrifice.. its love.. the ultimate love... a parent would take a bullet for the child even though they dont want to be shot or die.. its sacrifice.. its love.
@@brandennfinch No it's not it's all fiction, grow up and go and get on with your life, we don't need religion to be good people.
Sinners lost their innocence so only Innocence itself can supply.
Because the worldly judges don't love you, they give you your deserved punishment, but God loves you, So much that He gave His only son to take your punishment.
This is nothing like the court room
If he paid for sins why is there still sin?
There is no bench. Please consider christus victor model.
Only God can be a propiation to my sin.
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him- For the redemption of their souls is costly, And it shall cease forever- That he should continue to live eternally, And not see the Pit.
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah
Psalms 49:7-9, 15
No way Jesus could pay any "penalties" for people who weren't even born yet! Does that even make sense?
So let's see, e/one born *PRIOR* to Christ going to the cross had no chance of salvation? And you said all that so _emphatically_ ...you say there is *NO WAY* ? How did you come up with that opinion? Christ was slain from the foundation of the world ( *REV 13:8* ) so that verse deals with the "concern" you were bringing up. So yes, it *DOES* make sense. Cheers~~~:)
Kman
Please
Try not to confuse religion with reality👍
God said He’d provide a way and they trusted Him on that, until then they sacrificed animals to cover their sins.
Some fathers or big brother don't pay the price for your sins.
But is this just?
Excellent response and analogy. The questioner needs to first understand Who and What God is, then only he can understand God's role as a loving Father who gave His only begotten Son so that we can all live and worship God forever in Spirit and in Truth
What kind of primary qualities (weight, surface, size, shape) can we evaluate about god if we are to begin there?
@@Godlimate you trying to put the whole ocean out there in one tiny man-made hole?
God are , what ever we define gods to be
The god of the Bible (Frank's god) is a man made god.
It is not the real god,
which is invisible and unknowable.
However Franks god is a barbaric tribal god
who killed all the unborn children on the planet because they were bad.
When we come before a Holy God we can water down our charges and offer works to help pay off or we can admit we are in fact the lowest type of sinner guilty of all the commandments. We feel our heart is broken because we have let God down. But God says I'm not done with you your debit is Paid in Full.
Is God of universe putting sins on other human? Or on some other angel? Or on Himself becoming flesh, Lord f the universe? Is it just as to put crimes on another human, or it's the First Judge doing His thing?
God can do whatever he pleases.
He works in ways that are beyond my critical reasoning.
That's why I pay no attention to god.
People are so ungrateful. Jesus paid for all my sins and I love Jesus.
Who’s the white guy in the pic for this video???
Yes, He did.
How....God only knows.
Amen
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”
(John 14: 6- 7) NLT
Prayer:
Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins, come into my heart, wash me clean, for You are my Lord and my Savior. Thank you, Jesus. Amen.
What does that prove?
Do you seriously believe that load of utter bollocks you've just written?
All done while your church is covering up for child abusers and paedophiles, you people are such total and utter hypocrites, your church has blood on its hands, all over its hands
If god truly is omniscient and infallible
Then he knows before you are born wether or not your going to heaven or hell.... and there is nothing you can do to change it
So why isn’t Jesus in hell if he took the punishment? What punishment did he take? Getting beaten? Dying on the cross? Others took that same punishment too. It sounds like Jesus only had one bad day....
Please inform
Jesus was innocent and took the punishment
What’s so special about his punishment? He died in the same manner others have...
I did. He abandoned himself. Or his father abandoned him. Or at least he felt that way. A lot of people still feel that way. Some people don’t feel his presence. Why do I need to reflect on what he said there?
The bible does indicate that Jesus spent time in Sheol once He died and then ascended to His Father in Heaven victorious and took from there the keys of Death and of Hades (aka Sheol or Hell). Here is some biblical references of this:
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster , so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12:38-40 NASB
Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high , He led captive a host of captives , And He gave gifts to men .” (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)
Ephesians 4:8-10 NASB
When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
Revelation 1:17-18 NASB
Because he defeated death.
There is no real love or mercy involved in human justice. At the cross God's grace, love and perfect justice are fully met. God's wrath is satisfied through his love. I think The comparison is helpful but is limited. God's grace is so much beyond our comprehension. Human nature struggles more to accept God's grace than his justice. Maybe that's why Jesus said that no one could come to him unless the Father draws him. Isn't the Gospel absolutely amazing. AMAZING GRACE!
Amen
When you're judge, jury, executioner, king, God, victim, father and designer of the justice system, you kind of get to do what you want.
Hilarious comeback answer. Children of God are dead to sin alive in Christ.
Romans 6 🛡🕊
1 answer don't compare the carnal with spirituality, having said that STAY OUT OF TROUBLE✌
BECAUSE JESUS IS WORTH MORE THEN ANYTHING THEN ALL THE HUMANS COMBINED THEN ALL THE PLANETS ANIMALS STARTS TOGRTHER. JESUS OUTWEIGHT THEM ALL!
He got sooooo fat?
can you demonstrate Jesus existed? Along with his magic powers?
Alan Baraka
So now there isn’t sufficient evidence for the existence of Jesus, Alan?
Alan Baraka
So the most influential and central figure of the human race doesn’t exist?
Jesus is cited by 42 sources within 150 years of his life. That’s all you need to know
Now demonstrate macroevolution since that is your standard for proving something is true.
@@alanbaraka9800 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-and righteousness and sanctification and redemption- that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord .”
I Corinthians 1:17-28, 30-31 NKJV
If cryonics technology was advanced enough to freeze a human and they were brought back in 100 years how would that affect where their soul was?
Jesus christ paid your sins and my sins
If Christ payed our debt why was he not punished as we would be? We are sent to hell forever he only died a mans death as many did in that time.
.Even so I still Love and follow him he is the way and the truth.
Hold on, Frank. You're ASSUMING that sin before God functions as a monetary debt. That's the only way to make your analogy work. You even admitted so yourself at 1:18! But why should we assume that? You didn't address that aspect of the question. I'm finding this may be the Achilles Heel of Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory.
In the human legal realm there are MANY different types of punishment for crimes: fees, capital punishment, corporal punishment, banishment, forced labor, incarceration, etc. Only in one of these (fees) are we familiar with a third party effectively paying the penalty of the guilty.
BTW, we don't incarcerate people merely because they are a threat to others. Incarceration is itself a punishment.
This makes sense. They will not accept it. They will sacrifise common sense to keep their faith.
You are using an imperfect human system to compare to God. There are many flaws in the justice system, yet here we are using it as an analogy to a God whom is perfect. It doesn't matter what type of punishment it is, the idea remains the same: God can get down from the bench and pay your debt to set you free. We put people in jail to rehabilitate them all the while keeping them away from society so they do not cause more harm. When God saves you, the rehabilitation program instantly begins through God and if you are truly saved you are no longer a danger to anyone. Humans do not have the capability to do this as God does and therefore our only option is to put them in jail. We have to remember that God is not bound by the same rules as men, and therefore he is able to bring about justice in his own divine way because he is able to do things that we cannot do.
How come we don’t see that today in courts? uuuhhhh simple god would be imposing on the judges free will to judge the way he wants to judge duh
Romans 3:23-26 !
I don't like St. Paul.
He's a visionary and I'm a realist.
Well sir because the in the human courts the judges are human and not God
Jesus valunteer??.. Then why He cryout to God on cross?
Jesus Barabbas was a depiction of we the people, Jesus Christ was crucified in his (our) place
Indeed! Even the root of the name in Hebrew means son of God. bar-Abbas
I have wondered about (Jesus) Barabbas. The whole story about how Pilate lets the crowd choose between the two convicts seems invented, but apart from that, if we can see the name "Bar-abbas" as literally meaning son-of-father, then perhaps what we have here is an allegory in which the "crowd" (perhaps indeed "we the people") chose the physical, worldly side of Jesus' nature to live, and the spiritual side of Jesus' nature to die. In that case, it may even be that the crucifixion of Jesus is an allegory. No doubt someone called Jesus was crucified, but it could have been anyone, just like the lamb on Yom Kippur could have been any lamb.
@@JeanV1986 God bless you! John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Last night I spoke to Jesus and told him I wasn't responsible for his crucifixion.
I was not even a sperm cell back then.
The crucifixion of Jesus Christ never made sense to me.
Why did god need to send Jesus Christ to forgive? Why not forgive not without the crucifixion?
How did one person atone for all sins of all people, including future generations?
Finally, this also never made sense, how does the torture and death of Jesus Christ take the punishment of someone who deserves eternal torment?
Like, crucifixion ≠ eternal torment!
It isn't equal in torture, pain, and justice.
👍👍👍
@Ben Jesus took all the punishment of all the sins ever committed and ever will be committed on himself God couldn’t just forgive someone had to take the punishment, and who’s says we don’t stop sinning in hell? if we continue sinning in hell forever then that’s why it’s eternal
Desire Of All Nations
Are you saying god had no choice??
God relishes blood sacrifices and what could be more pleasing to him than to sacrifice himself to forgive future generations
for a crime they did not commit.
The only way for sin to be forgiven is through the blood of Christ covering our sins. The justice for sin is done then.
Agree with the Ray Comfort explanation.
But in man's court we can't do that, but in God's court He can and has.
God's ways are above our ways, His thoughts above our thoughts.
Jesus paying the fine goes to the sanctuary laws of old testament, not man's laws of today.
If, as you say, "God's ways are above our ways, His thoughts above our thoughts.", then how do you know you understand his doctrine, his intentions and motivations correctly?
That's exactly what I was thinking. The kingdom courts run differently than the earthly court. From what I understand heavenly courts are the same and dont change. Earthly courts change all the time.
@@hansdemos6510 by His word.
We live in faith, we can get all the evidence we need, but faith in Jesus will the rock which you shall stand on.
God knows that we dont know, God made us for a reason, to be a jury, to judge angels.
We use the bible to interpret the bible.
If we use man's opinion, like they do with the talmud, or the oral law of Moses, then we will be missing something if that oral preacher of God is corrupted.
@@TheMfrogg That is not a very satisfying answer as belief in the truth of the Bible depends on a faith that I argue you cannot know is true.
Again, if you say on the one hand "God knows that we dont know, God made us for a reason", but claim on the other hand that "God's ways are above our ways, His thoughts above our thoughts", you are contradicting yourself. And you only make that worse when you say that you "use the bible to interpret the bible". You can't claim to be using God's opinion if you also claim that "God's ways are above our ways, His thoughts above our thoughts".
RetroMan I think there are issues with that. Knowledge (bible) precedes action (relationship). And if the argument is that you can’t grasp knowledge from god, then technically, you won’t know if you’re doing it right.
Relationship is, after all, based on the interpretations of the bible. The word “relationship” doesn’t even exist in the bible, yet it is the flagship of Christianity. Other religions and denominations is evidence to suggest that relationship might not have been god’s intent.
Your father can decide to give you a way out if you break the house rules.
icarious Redemption:
"Substitutionary atonement, also called vicarious atonement, is the idea that Jesus died "for us," as propagated by the classic and objective paradigms of atonement in Christianity, which regard Jesus as dying as a substitute for others, 'instead of' them."Wikipedia
Paradigm:
"A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them."The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
My comment:
Yahweh cannot make a mistake.
Yahweh creates mankind.
Yahweh is sorry he made mankind
Yahweh destroys most of mankind.
Mankind survives but goes bad again.
Yahweh comes into human form as Jesus to tell humanity how to avoid being destroyed again.
Jesus dies a horrible death so Yahweh can forgive humanity instead of being destroyed.
Jesus finishes his failed mission and rejoins himself in his magic kingdom in the clouds.
Because God says so.
This is the truth of atonement that God has established.
Leviticus 17:10-11
"If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.
Matthew 26:27-28
And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you;
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
@Saint Michael Pray for Us Protestant still do communion.
Romans 2:12 said how The Law will be used to judge whomever practicing it while everyone who has been justified by their faith in Christ has passed the judgment.
Are you kidding?
Leviticus?
Yuk!
@Saint Michael Pray for Us Says the one whose username still depending on angel and not put the faith in Christ alone.
You're doubting what He has done, aren't you 'Saint Michael Pray For Us'?
@@JamesRichardWiley No. I'm not kidding. What do you wanna know?
He could have talked about bail
❤
Did not the Lord of the Christians have a solution except the solution of mocking him, spitting on him, dragging him to the ground, beating him, stripping him of his clothes, his crucifixion, and killing him to forgive the sins of humanity ???
There is a solution millions of times better than this solution found in the Bible and it is the fairest, most merciful, the most sensible, the right, the easiest, and it is written in Ezekiel.
Here there is no bloodshed of an animal or a person, but Paul and those who came after him distorted the teachings of Christ and made them superstitions ...
Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Since God created us and gave us the ability to choose sin that makes God ultimately responsible for the sin we created because there is no sin until God says Don't do this ... or don't do that ...
So only God can ultimately pay for sin, not us. We can pay for our sin in hell or let God cover our sin with his shed blood.
He has to become human to shed his blood. Salvation is a FREE gift from God so that none of us can boast and say we had a hand in our salvation.
Do you have to obey all of Allah’s laws and repent when you haven’t? He’ll keep forgiving you? So anyone who has tried their best and repents on their death bed gets into heaven?
Edit:Are there any exceptions for those who are mentally challenged or have other limitations?
Did not your prophet die a long, excruciating death?
People could only go to heaven before Jesus, because of Jesus. They were told that God would send a messiah, and they had faith in that messiah for salvation. Now all that was needed was repentance.
There are devil's within the peers.
Jesus spoke many times with his 12 apostles, believers and others ... had he never thought of one day talking to them for at least five minutes about the trinity and how it works and what it is made of ... or tell them as his father said: "I AM GOD ALL POWERFUL", or tell them something about Adam and his famous sin (Jesus never uttered or pronounced the no of Adam or evoked his ridiculous original sin ... so that, according to the church, Jesus was only sent to repair Adam's sin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!)… !!!
Part of the point of the gospels is that Jesus expects us to choose to try and understand. If you pay attention to how and why he says (to the 12) that he makes use of parables, then you can meditate on why this cannot be forced and why not cast pearl amongst swine.
@@colmwhateveryoulike3240
Whenever a Christian gullible is blocked, the church advised him to use his magic weapons to be saved: parables, symbols, images, allegories ..
@@colmwhateveryoulike3240
You surely have faith ...
My friend, you are truly a believer.
There is now a great opportunity to confirm that you really have faith and be sure that I too will become a worshiper of "3 things in 1 thing" like you :
The Coronavirus pandemic is a golden opportunity for the church and all Christians to bring the world into their religion, including Jews and Muslims. If all those who truly have faith and truly believe in Jesus and his words, they have only to apply what Jesus told them in the Bible, the most printed, sold and read book : “ And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” [The Bible, Mark 16: 17-18].
If they really have faith in their God and are not pretenders or hypocrites, they just have to go out of their homes or their hiding places and go to hospitals and put their hands on all the sick and they will surely heal ...
Go what are you waiting for, my dear Christians and do not waste this great opportunity and the whole world needs you and your faith? People are tired, hospitals are saturated and doctors and medical materials are insufficient ...
And don't do like some Christian cowards who were afraid of being unmasked or die by catching poisonous snakes or drinking poison or directly touching patients with contagious and deadly diseases… claiming that all these things were nothing but parables to escape the test !!!
But where is the holy spirit to come to help and support you !!!?
parables
parables
parables
So what exactly did jesus accomplish?? Even if jesus died for our sins, the people who died before jesus was judged by their own doings and people who died after jesus and going to die in the future will be judged by their own doings.... If jesus died for my sins and i will go straight to heaven after my death regardless of my sins, i am all in for that.... But you say i will be judged before god for my sins..... So whats the point of Jesus's crucifixion??
Frank tells people that salvation of retroactive, but there's no way to demonstrate that. Also makes no sense because there is no way for dead people to "accept" this salvation.
Terrible answer. Paying the fine for someone else does not make the offending party less guilty, so God is clearly unjust if he is going to allow one person (himself) to pay everyone's fine. Also, if God can't forgive anyone without killing himself for a day-and-a-half (how that works I wouldn't know), he's not really "omnibenevolent" is he?
If the sinner is genuinely repentant, God (who is rich in mercy and is gracious) forgives him/her and then has Jesus satisfy His holy justice.
Someone atones for the sins of others?. That's ridiculous. Everyone is responsible for their actions. You do good, you get the reward. You do evil, you get the punishment. Even the Bible confirms it. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them (Ezekiel 18:20). No one pays for the evil doings of others. The idea that someone paid for your sins is appealing to sinners, and above all, makes no sense. People can preoccupy themselves with false hope but they can't change the truth.
Where in the Bible does Jesus volunteer to go to the cross?
*Philip* I think there are several places where that can be found. What comes to mind right away is this...
*John **10:18* "No man taketh it from me, but _I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF_ . I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again...". The bible says He was "slain from the foundation of the world" ( *Rev 13:8* ), so to think He went to the cross reluctantly, one would have to believe from eternity He dreaded even the thought.
I believe it was in the Garden of Gethsemane where he he had a debate with his father, his higher self, over the need to be tortured and killed.
His higher self, Yahweh, who relished the idea of a human sacrifice, had the final say.
Final comment:
For me there is no doubt that Christianity is masquerading as kindness, morality and enlightenment,
while hiding cruelty, immorality, and schizophrenia.
What’s strange is Jesus said is there any way this cup can pass over him.
In other words he didn’t want to be crucified, and , god being god omniscient and all , he could have saved mankind without the need of the crucifixion.
It was completely unnecessary
@@mickqQ I take the "cup" to mean the _cup of death_ had He died right there in Gethsemane. You find in *Matt **26:37**-39* while in Gethsemane the bible says that He began to be "sorrowful and very heavy...My soul is exceeding sorrowful EVEN UNTO DEATH...let this cup pass from me..."
Had Christ not gone to Calvary, there would be no redemption for mankind…
· *Acts **20:28* "…which he hath purchased with his own blood".
· *Rom 5:9* "Being now justified by His blood".
· *Eph* 1:7, "Whom we have redemption through His blood".
· *Col **1:14* "In whom we have redemption through his blood…"
· *Heb **9:14* "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself…" ---there's the "offering" of Himself again like you questioned initially.
You'll recall when Judas betrayed Him & led a group to capture Him in *John 8* ? This would have been an opportune time for Christ to have fled, but the bible says in *Verse 4* , " Jesus therefore, knowing ALL THINGS THAT SHOULD COME UPON HIM, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?" Again, this speaks to the point of Christ *WILLINGLY* going to the cross.
Are you a believer?
In the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus has a conversation with Yahweh, his heavenly father, and the Creator of the Universe.
The torture and death of Jesus was Yahweh's idea and Jesus had to volunteer
if he wanted to be reunited with himself in heaven.
According to the story.
That's a false diagnosis of the problem. It is the sin condition-not the acts that lead to death-that are the problem.
Evangelical Protestantism's diagnosis of the problem is based off the Roman legal system-you committed the crime and now you're on the hook to pay the debt you owe.
When Psalms 51:5 says we're born in sin and conceived in iniquity-a condition of fear-driven selfishness that leads to the acts that to death. We need a remedy-a cure-a transformation of the heart by the Spirit-cutting away the dross of selfishness and putting in a new righteous heart within the believer.
Sin is not a legal matter that needs to be paid for by some legal payment that declares us legally righteous even though we are not. We are human beings drowning in the pit of our sin-we need an actual transformation of being where we actually love God and others more than self.
BECAUSE of our sins He was crucified, but your sins are NOT cancelled by Him being crucified: Hell is still there.
Come on cross examine we need the book. the stealing from God. there is only 3 book left.
Jonathan Roumie! 🤣
What he just said was a bunch of bs only in white America. According to your own bible God always punished the sinner for their sins! If you are saying God punished Jesus for your sins than GOD HAS CHANGED….AND RIGHT BEFORE MATTHEW IN MALACHI 3:6 GOD SAYS HE DOESN’T CHANGE
WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO DEBATE OR HAVE A DISCUSSION IN THIS TOPIC?
So the punishment of rape is only something that i don't have to give
Jesus will give that
What is that
How about the rape victim
In our religion (Islam) you have to get punished for your own sin
Cz you did this
﴿هَل أَتاكَ حَديثُ موسى﴾ [النازعات: ١٥]
Has there reached you the story of Moses? -
- Saheeh International
﴿إِذ ناداهُ رَبُّهُ بِالوادِ المُقَدَّسِ طُوًى﴾ [النازعات: ١٦]
When his Lord called to him in the sacred valley of Ṭuwā,
- Saheeh International
﴿اذهَب إِلى فِرعَونَ إِنَّهُ طَغى﴾ [النازعات: ١٧]
"Go to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed.
- Saheeh International
﴿فَقُل هَل لَكَ إِلى أَن تَزَكّى﴾ [النازعات: ١٨]
And say to him, 'Would you [be willing to] purify yourself
- Saheeh International
﴿وَأَهدِيَكَ إِلى رَبِّكَ فَتَخشى﴾ [النازعات: ١٩]
And let me guide you to your Lord so you would fear [Him]?'"
- Saheeh International
﴿فَأَراهُ الآيَةَ الكُبرى﴾ [النازعات: ٢٠]
And he showed him the greatest sign,
- Saheeh International
﴿فَكَذَّبَ وَعَصى﴾ [النازعات: ٢١]
But he [i.e., Pharaoh] denied and disobeyed.
- Saheeh International
﴿ثُمَّ أَدبَرَ يَسعى﴾ [النازعات: ٢٢]
Then he turned his back, striving [i.e., plotting].
- Saheeh International
﴿فَحَشَرَ فَنادى﴾ [النازعات: ٢٣]
And he gathered [his people] and called out.
- Saheeh International
﴿فَقالَ أَنا رَبُّكُمُ الأَعلى﴾ [النازعات: ٢٤]
And said, "I am your most exalted lord."
- Saheeh International
﴿فَأَخَذَهُ اللَّهُ نَكالَ الآخِرَةِ وَالأولى﴾ [النازعات: ٢٥]
So Allāh seized him in exemplary punishment for the last and the first [transgression]..
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنَّ في ذلِكَ لَعِبرَةً لِمَن يَخشى﴾ [النازعات: ٢٦]
Indeed in that is a lesson [i.e., warning] for whoever would fear [Allāh].
- Saheeh International
﴿أَأَنتُم أَشَدُّ خَلقًا أَمِ السَّماءُ بَناها﴾ [النازعات: ٢٧]
Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? He [i.e., Allāh] constructed it.
- Saheeh International
﴿رَفَعَ سَمكَها فَسَوّاها﴾ [النازعات: ٢٨]
He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.
- Saheeh International
﴿وَأَغطَشَ لَيلَها وَأَخرَجَ ضُحاها﴾ [النازعات: ٢٩]
And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.
- Saheeh International
﴿وَالأَرضَ بَعدَ ذلِكَ دَحاها﴾ [النازعات: ٣٠]
And after that He spread the earth.
- Saheeh International
﴿أَخرَجَ مِنها ماءَها وَمَرعاها﴾ [النازعات: ٣١]
He extracted from it its water and its pasture,
- Saheeh International
﴿وَالجِبالَ أَرساها﴾ [النازعات: ٣٢]
And the mountains He set firmly
- Saheeh International
﴿مَتاعًا لَكُم وَلِأَنعامِكُم﴾ [النازعات: ٣٣]
As enjoyment [i.e., provision] for you and your grazing livestock.
- Saheeh International
﴿يَومَ يَفِرُّ المَرءُ مِن أَخيهِ﴾ [عبس: ٣٤]
On the Day a man will flee from his brother
- Saheeh International
﴿وَأُمِّهِ وَأَبيهِ﴾ [عبس: ٣٥]
And his mother and his father
- Saheeh International
﴿وَصاحِبَتِهِ وَبَنيهِ﴾ [عبس: ٣٦]
And his wife and his children,
- Saheeh International
﴿لِكُلِّ امرِئٍ مِنهُم يَومَئِذٍ شَأنٌ يُغنيهِ﴾ [عبس: ٣٧]
For every man, that Day, will be a matter adequate for him.
- Saheeh International
﴿وُجوهٌ يَومَئِذٍ مُسفِرَةٌ﴾ [عبس: ٣٨]
[Some] faces, that Day, will be bright -
- Saheeh International
﴿ضاحِكَةٌ مُستَبشِرَةٌ﴾ [عبس: ٣٩]
Laughing, rejoicing at good news.
- Saheeh International
﴿وَوُجوهٌ يَومَئِذٍ عَلَيها غَبَرَةٌ﴾ [عبس: ٤٠]
And [other] faces, that Day, will have upon them dust.
- Saheeh International
﴿تَرهَقُها قَتَرَةٌ﴾ [عبس: ٤١]
Blackness will cover them.
- Saheeh International
﴿أُولئِكَ هُمُ الكَفَرَةُ الفَجَرَةُ﴾ [عبس: ٤٢]
Those are the disbelievers, the wicked ones.
- Saheeh International
I don’t see the point of this.
@@chadedwards3676 Where did you find this meaningless white noise?.
I am 70 years old, read thousands of books, talked with thousands of people and run a successful business for 50 years
but I have no idea what this is.
Please explain it to me.
Exactly how did Jesus "pay our fine?" We're bad, we should go to hell (according to Dr. Turek this is equivalent to choosing to not be with God for all eternity). But Jesus is either a part of God (Holy Trinity) or at worst, up in Heaven with Dad (God, the father). So apparently becoming human (something all us mortals couldn't avoid), and dying an unjust painful death (I'm sure Jesus wasn't the only person unjustly crucified for political reasons) is equivalent to an eternity in hell, at least if you have connections with God. We of course can be forgiven if we believe this story.
In my view of this story, God sees Man is bad, but instead of fixing the real problem (which is a lack of abundant resources that humans must compete for), he "fixes" a symptom. And he does this by making a real spectacle (a crucifixion) of an event for which He could simply say "you're forgiven if you repent to my satisfaction."
Perhaps you can tell I'm an atheist from the above comment. The whole omnipotent, omnibenevolent God entity seems logically faulty given the situation we find ourselves in on earth.
And before you ask "So you think something came from nothing", let me ask how that is any less believable than a formless, timeless, matterless super entity that always existed?
Believing in someone who has all the power created everything is way more believable than believing they just popped out of nowhere
Your thoughts are not His.
"The American Family Association believes that God has communicated absolute truth to mankind, and that all people are subject to the authority of God’s Word at all times."
My comment:
This is the opposite intent of the First Amendment and the founding fathers.
This is religious bullying, pushing Christian Nationalism,
into America's secular government to transform it into a theocracy.
This is why I am calling out Frank on his Biblical claims.
I have read the Bible and it is an unconstitutional document
that has caused the death of thousands throughout history.
"If my father was the judge, he might pay the penalty for me". The confusion still remains. How is that justice? Why are you confusing people on what Jesus said. He never greed to be hanged onbthe cross. Please stop confusing people. 1 Corinthians 14:33 “For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.”
Its God's justice, love and grace at work. God could go the purely justice way and no human would be saved. So because he loved mankind so much he sends his son to be the pure sacrificial lamb, and by grace offers amnesty to all who would surrender their lives to the son. As for me and my family we gladly take this gift of salvation, and everyone should.
The entire Bible proves that St Paul is wrong.
God is the author of confusion
judging by the number of Christian sects that disagree with one another on articles of faith.
So Frank admits that it doesn't make sense.....
Frank could argue that a pumpkin is a rhinoceros if the Bible said so.
James Richard Wiley
And would !!😀
You’re assuming that the Bible would say something illogical like that, which is a blatant misrepresentation, it’s very typical of atheists.
No one but God could pay the debt owed everything already belongs to God we have nothing to give that he doesn't already own or deserve. When you think about it only God could do this no one else.
Imagine a young adult he comes from a rich family he has never worked a day in his life all of the money his ever got was given to him by his dad he saved some of the money that he was given then he was given a car he wrecks the car and he says don't worry dad i will pay you back his dad yells it is my money. All he is doing is giving his dads own money back to him essentially his son is the worst bank ever in this story the son could get a job but we cannot do that we have no way to pay God back we cannot add to creation we cannot bring more into being we just swap things around and use up resources like the son in the story.....
﴿هَل أَتى عَلَى الإِنسانِ حينٌ مِنَ الدَّهرِ لَم يَكُن شَيئًا مَذكورًا﴾ [الإنسان: ١]
Has there [not] come upon man a period of time when he was not a thing [even] mentioned?
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنّا خَلَقنَا الإِنسانَ مِن نُطفَةٍ أَمشاجٍ نَبتَليهِ فَجَعَلناهُ سَميعًا بَصيرًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٢]
Indeed, We created man from a sperm-drop mixture that We may try him; and We made him hearing and seeing.
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنّا هَدَيناهُ السَّبيلَ إِمّا شاكِرًا وَإِمّا كَفورًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٣]
Indeed, We guided him to the way, be he grateful or be he ungrateful.
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنّا أَعتَدنا لِلكافِرينَ سَلاسِلَ وَأَغلالًا وَسَعيرًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٤]
Indeed, We have prepared for the disbelievers chains and shackles and a blaze.
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنَّ الأَبرارَ يَشرَبونَ مِن كَأسٍ كانَ مِزاجُها كافورًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٥]
Indeed, the righteous will drink from a cup [of wine] whose mixture is of Kāfūr,
- Saheeh International
﴿عَينًا يَشرَبُ بِها عِبادُ اللَّهِ يُفَجِّرونَها تَفجيرًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٦]
A spring of which the [righteous] servants of Allāh will drink; they will make it gush forth in force [and abundance].
- Saheeh International
﴿يوفونَ بِالنَّذرِ وَيَخافونَ يَومًا كانَ شَرُّهُ مُستَطيرًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٧]
They [are those who] fulfill [their] vows and fear a Day whose evil will be widespread.
- Saheeh International
﴿وَيُطعِمونَ الطَّعامَ عَلى حُبِّهِ مِسكينًا وَيَتيمًا وَأَسيرًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٨]
And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنَّما نُطعِمُكُم لِوَجهِ اللَّهِ لا نُريدُ مِنكُم جَزاءً وَلا شُكورًا﴾ [الإنسان: ٩]
[Saying], "We feed you only for the face [i.e., approval] of Allāh. We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
- Saheeh International
﴿إِنّا نَخافُ مِن رَبِّنا يَومًا عَبوسًا قَمطَريرًا﴾ [الإنسان: ١٠]
Indeed, We fear from our Lord a Day austere and distressful."
- Saheeh International
﴿فَوَقاهُمُ اللَّهُ شَرَّ ذلِكَ اليَومِ وَلَقّاهُم نَضرَةً وَسُرورًا﴾ [الإنسان: ١١]
So Allāh will protect them from the evil of that Day and give them radiance and happiness
- Saheeh International
Pure gibberish.
Makes no sense to me.
Why did god need to send himself down to die so he could forgive our sins. He is all powerfull, why not just just skip to the forgiving part?
Because He is just.
Sounds good. If someone steals all your money, your car, burns your house down or kills your mom, forget the law and justice and just skip to the forgiving part. Sounds like that’ll be no trouble for you.
@@festushaggen2563 Did you steal God's car? Did you burn down heaven? Did you kill God's mom?
Here's a better analogy: Suppose you know your daughter is crazy about cherries, and you buy some of the most delicious and shiny cherries you can find in the store for dessert. Then, you show them to her, and you put them in a display bowl, and then you put the bowl with the cherries in the middle of her room, but you admonish her that she can't have any. Or else! After a few hours, you decide to check on her, and sure enough, she has taken one of the cherries. Oh dear! Now you will have to punish her! So you call in her twin brother, and you break his bones, you whip him until he bleeds and then you nail him to a piece of wood to punish your daughter. For having one cherry.
@RetroMan First of all; why couldn't God allow evil in heaven, if he wanted to? Secondly, if we have to "pay" for our sins to God, then he can decide to waive payment too. I mean, if a credit card company can waive its fees, surely God is able to waive the payment for our sins?
@@hansdemos6510 supposedly there was evil in heaven at one point, that's how we got lucifer.
P1. Love requires free will
P2. Free will must always allow the possibility of evil
Conclusion: if there is no evil In Heaven, there can neither be free will nor love. If there is free will in heaven, both love and evil must necessarily coexist.
This logic is sound and insurmountable.
Because we can't pay for our own sins. Sin is a spiritual offense. You can't pay a fine or do jail time so the worldly comparison doesn't work. There's also no amount of good works we can do to atone for our sins. Jesus didn't have His own sins to pay for either so He was the only one who could pay our sin debt. Justice was served on the cross out of God's love and God's grace and salvation is available for all who will believe in Christ as the risen Son of God and trust in Him as their Savior.
"This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
Also God doesn't need to separate the guilty to protect the rest of the guilty - those who willfully choose hell over heaven essentially seperate themselves.
You make it sound like the game is rigged; we are saddled with a nature that makes it inevitable that we sin; we can't pay for our sins, and we can't compensate with good works... In other words, we are screwed no matter what we do.
@RetroMan In that case, the game is not only rigged; it was a setup from the start.
There is no such thing as sin,
There is such thing as immoral behaviour
To “sin” is to offend an imaginary god
@@mickqQ I haven't found enough evidence to prove that God is imaginary.
Simply he can't take your sins.
Vicarious Redemption is immoral and unjust.
It is immoral. My father taught me that i must always face the consequences of my actions. It is immoral to scapegoat. If god puts me in hell for eternity for stealing a candy bar from the book fair when i was in 1st grade, and not believing he exists now, so be it.
Better analogy is that Jesus the son as 100% God goes before the Father as 100% God and proves that he is the one who committed the crime (sin) then the judge will see that you didn’t commit the crime now that Jesus is proving with evidence that he committed the crime (sin). That might be a better analogy.
Sorry, doesn't work also.
You can't be blamed for two crimes in same time in the different places.
If Jesus knew, that he will be back in 3 days, he actually sacrifised just 3 days of his life and spend one terrible day to become ruler of the universe for eternity. He gain a great number of followers, he would not have, to praise him eternally. Not a bad trade, if you want to be loved eternally by great number of people, right?
A weekend. He sacrificed a weekend for you. Get on your knees, heathen! 😂
Yea he spent more time suffering on the cross than you did actually helping people
@@almondwater9583 That is a lie. We have quite high taxation.
Jesus is the ruler of the universe who willingly chose to sacrifice himself for our sake. That’s just pure love
@@dreyko166 What he actually permanently lost by this sacrifice?
The sacrifice the Jesus is alleged to have made was being dead for three days, then he is alleged to have rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. So he sacrificed .05% of his adult life to save all of humanity from the sin that he defined, and bestowed upon us all. The left us with the tradition of consuming bread and wine to represent him. This is sounding like a weird zombie cannibal religion.
If any Christian was given the opportunity to give 3 days off the end of their life to make the world a better place, I dare to say that you would struggle to find any human being not willing to have that sacrifice be their legacy, Christian or not. I'm guessing that the number would be about .05% of the population... ironic, no?
According to the Catholics,
the heavenly father of Jesus from whom he takes his orders
is none other than Yahweh
the barbaric, desert god of the Hebrews
who drowned all the unborn babies on the planet because he was sorry he had made them
with the free will to disobey him.
Later Yahweh makes Jesus undergo torture and crucifixion so he can raise him from the dead and be reunited with him in his heavenly kingdom.
It took me thirty years to recover from this brain destroying tale of guilt and shame.
But if this actually would happen in court, everybody would blame the judge to be corrupt. Imagine, a person has raped another person. The rapist comes to court and the judge his their father. And the father says: "Well, either you go to jail or you pay *certain amount of money*." The rapist doesn't have to money, but the father gives it to them so that they can pay and they are free. But what does that mean for the victim? The victim didn't get any justice. Justice is supposed to save the and help the victim. The only one who profits from such a court would be the rapists in that example.
The difference in your example and what we see in Christianity is that our sins are against God (the judge) and not someone else. You are on trial against God AND He is the Judge. Meaning He is the one who is owed AND He alone is the only one who can judge. In this case He is fully just by requiring payment and fully justified to grant Himself as a substitution.
The point is not so much that we have an example of this in court history but to demonstrate that it is fully just and is an act of demonstrated love that God has every right to do.
It's called Vicarious Redemption and it is immoral.
The Catholic Church supports this type of thing through their hero, Jesus.
I cannot imagine why.
Lets say you live in a country...and the country makes super-hard-to-keep laws, most of them not even reasonable, that the law-giver KNOWS people won't keep. But than he offers them to "forgive" you and not sent you to torture-camps IF you support the son of the head of state and do exactly what he says.
Does any of that sound just and/or reasonable to any christian?
So...why should god be praised to offer a solution to some people after he created a problem for all of them?
Islam has its own flaws...but at least it has a logical system of people going to hell or heaven.
Right, the only way a god could forgive us is by sacrificing himself, to himself to save us from himself. A blood sacrifice. People still don’t see how barbaric this is?
Your ancestors killed each other and spend days rolling around in dung in an angry fit of dominance just to mate.
Jesus is the only way The truth and the life Our* ancestors. Evolution is a fact and I’m not claiming this to be some sort of divine intervention via some perfect being. There’s a big difference. And they didn’t roll around in dung.
Saint Michael Pray for Us U clearly don’t realize that Hitler, Mao and Stalin all were viewed as Gods and enforced their rules or their religion onto the citizens. Hitler was a Roman Catholic btw, but wanted to act like God. So ur proving our point about how toxic religion is.
Jesus is the only way The truth and the life your ancestors did the same thing
Blake H yea your a dirty little ape man
Jesus didn't atone for our sins. Jesus was the propitiation for our sins. Atonement covered sins; memorializing them. Propitiation took our sins away. Our sins deserved the death of God as payment. 2 Corinthians 5:19, Hebrews 10:17-18, Romans 4:8, John 1:29, and 1 John 2:2 (depending on the translation).
I don't know about you, but I was born without sin,
and I never heard of Jesus before I was sent to a Catholic school and indoctrinated.
BTW - How do I get unbaptized?