Well, anyone is welcome to interpret the Steps as they need to Bill W wouldn't agree with what so many of these folks think. He said: We are often asked “What is the difference between ‘defects of character’ in Step Six and ‘shortcomings’ in Step Seven?” According to G.S.O.’s archives Bill W. commented about his use of “Defects of Character” and “Shortcomings” interchangeably in the Steps in a personal letter he wrote dated March 7, 1963. Thanks for your inquiry, requesting to know the difference between ‘defects of character’ and ‘shortcomings’ - as those words appear in the Steps. Actually, I don’t remember any particular significance in these phrases. In my mind, the meaning is identical; I guess I just used two ways of expression, rather than to repeat myself. It’s just as simple as that. In another letter, dated November 16, 1965, Bill again responded to a similar inquiry. His letter read, in part: When these Steps were being done, I didn’t want to repeat the phrase ‘character defects’ twice in succession. Therefore, in Step Seven, I substituted ‘shortcomings’, thereby equating ‘shortcomings’ with ‘defects.’ When reading most people do equate that way and there seems to be no difficulty. I used them as though they both meant exactly the same thing - which they appear to many people. I guess it’s a problem in semantics, all right. For example, it is possible to say that each time you fall short of an ideal, to that extent is your character defective. Looking at it in the other way, ‘shortcomings’ can be read as a mere failure to do what should have been done. So, I guess you have to take your pick.
Landmark is so not self help. The Forum ROCKS! BUT NOT to compare or replace AA. I will say AA and THE Forum BOTH have been the most powerful transformations to truth - of my life.
Joe and Charlie tapes, defects of character and short comings equal the same thing; Bill W just chose different words. But I like Astrid's version too!
I don't understand how you say that your expectations for others to be or say or do is dishonest, can anyone clarify? I see selfish self seeking in it & fear, i dont get dishonesty tho. Thanks
If someone can't or isn't going to change and =I know it= then it is dishonest of me to expect them to be different or to change. I am setting myself up to be let down. If a if a parent was neglectful because they were in active addiction, then it is dishonest to tell myself that they could have been different or should have treated me better than they were capable of treating me. Hope that helps.
Sex,Security,Desire to be somebody in Society are instincts God help me to be humble ?? Not having your way is not a instinct ...Desire is not a instinct unless your hungry.Think of the Gazelle ..Think of the Lion ..Is the Gazelle running mad because he thinks of the Lion when the Lion has no interest in the Gazelle ...
This is awesome thank you for sharing . Wish I’d have been at conference to share
Well done Astrid
I'd love you as my sponsor. Ill strive to reach this level God willing. Ty
Well, anyone is welcome to interpret the Steps as they need to Bill W wouldn't agree with what so many of these folks think. He said:
We are often asked “What is the difference between ‘defects of character’ in
Step Six and ‘shortcomings’ in Step Seven?”
According to G.S.O.’s archives Bill W. commented about his use of “Defects of Character” and
“Shortcomings” interchangeably in the Steps in a personal letter he wrote dated March 7, 1963.
Thanks for your inquiry, requesting to know the difference between ‘defects of character’ and
‘shortcomings’ - as those words appear in the Steps. Actually, I don’t remember any particular
significance in these phrases. In my mind, the meaning is identical; I guess I just used two ways of
expression, rather than to repeat myself. It’s just as simple as that.
In another letter, dated November 16, 1965, Bill again responded to a similar inquiry. His letter
read, in part:
When these Steps were being done, I didn’t want to repeat the phrase ‘character defects’ twice in
succession. Therefore, in Step Seven, I substituted ‘shortcomings’, thereby equating ‘shortcomings’
with ‘defects.’
When reading most people do equate that way and there seems to be no difficulty. I used them as
though they both meant exactly the same thing - which they appear to many people.
I guess it’s a problem in semantics, all right. For example, it is possible to say that each time you
fall short of an ideal, to that extent is your character defective. Looking at it in the other way,
‘shortcomings’ can be read as a mere failure to do what should have been done. So, I guess you
have to take your pick.
Astrid Rock's!!!
Thank you so much for this
Landmark is so not self help. The Forum ROCKS! BUT NOT to compare or replace AA. I will say AA and THE Forum BOTH have been the most powerful transformations to truth - of my life.
Thank You for fixing the audio! Jeez! Good message though.
Thanks so much.
Joe and Charlie tapes, defects of character and short comings equal the same thing; Bill W just chose different words. But I like Astrid's version too!
I don't understand how you say that your expectations for others to be or say or do is dishonest, can anyone clarify? I see selfish self seeking in it & fear, i dont get dishonesty tho. Thanks
Good point I see it more as control and playing God. Maybe the dishonesty is our inability to see our lack of control accurately.
If someone can't or isn't going to change and =I know it= then it is dishonest of me to expect them to be different or to change. I am setting myself up to be let down.
If a if a parent was neglectful because they were in active addiction, then it is dishonest to tell myself that they could have been different or should have treated me better than they were capable of treating me.
Hope that helps.
Sex,Security,Desire to be somebody in Society are instincts
God help me to be humble ?? Not having your way is not a instinct ...Desire is not a instinct unless your hungry.Think of the Gazelle ..Think of the Lion ..Is the Gazelle running mad because he thinks of the Lion when the Lion has no interest in the Gazelle ...