@@nicholasgarrick8855 Big time growing up to do! She knew she was going for Tino and made Aven look like a liar to try and justify the fact that she wanted Tino. Totally ignorant way to go about it. Her true colors really came to light during "HER" argument with Aven!!! He didn't know it at the time, but he dodged the bullet!!! And if she does get engaged to Tino, I don't believe they'll last long...and THEN we'll hear what a liar he was!! She's just a spoiled b""t, and has ALOT of growing up and maturing to do!!!
Imagine being so hung up on engagements that love is not a factor. Also delivering the statement "what we are discussing here is so important that abc gave us extra time" with a straight face is just prooving we are in the darkest timeline.
It's The Bachelorette not regular life. So I disagree with the first sentiment. Of course they're upset about the idea of no proposal. But the last part of your comment is SPOT ON!
Aven’s parents’ divorce obviously weighed heavily on his judgement in a really honest and respectable way. He clearly loved Rachel and wanted to do it right. Rachel canceled several dates, cocktail parties, etc leaving some time lost and still had Tino around… I can absolutely understand Aven’s feelings once the dreaminess of fantasy suites ended and reality began to set back in. I don’t know. He seems sincere.
@@thehousespouse because he might think she’s the one now…and then propose…and then they have to live their lives for real now…no cameras, no fancy hotels paid for, no champagne everywhere, no glitz and glam. Are they compatible living together day to day? What are their routines and habits? Do they micromanage each other or do they let the other live? Where do they end up living? Is relocation easy? What about finances? Debt to income ratio? Are they financially responsible? Are they happy after the honeymoon phase or do they slowly resent each other? A marriage is supposed to be for life. An engagement is supposed to be once. Why rush into something so important?
@@jasonvargas7564 then he doesn’t know she’s the one, and he’s using misleading wording. Most of those things they could discuss in fantasy suites and the rest they can work through together if they are committed to each other.
It honestly pissed me off to no end how he said he wanted everything she wanted. To give her a home, a family, to be with her and all she heard was “I’m not proposing now.” Like it’s not the same as Peter where he said he doesn’t know if he wants to propose. He DOES want to just after they’re settled. But no. Rachel is her own worst enemy.
This whole time I really thought Tino was her guy from the very beginning but the way she talked about Aven after overnights and how she talked about him to her family, it was definitely him. And based on the look on her face watching back the clips of them, it seems like she was full of regret. Especially since Aven could have definitely gotten there with her and was clearly committed to being with her. Seems like Tino has just been telling her what she wants to hear from the start.
If Aven was her guy, and he certainly seemed to be, and she gave him up because he didn’t want to get engaged yet then he dodged a bullet and she has some personal growing to do.
Wholeheartedly agree with this assessment! During their discussions, Aven was just being realistic and truthful with Rachel. The way she was nitpicking and misinterpreting his words made it seem like she was purposely looking for a way out of their relationship.
Exactly !!! Aven said so himself “I’m not going to tell you what you want to hear I’m going to tell you how I honestly feel” whereas tino just told her what she wanted to hear
@@stellashepherd3229 it’s crazy because in their first conversation he never said he wasn’t going to propose. He said could be a few days or a few months etc. He definitely still could of proposed at the end. I think he just wanted to be sure it was him at the end before he made a definitive statement. Which is smart but of course Rachel just couldn’t understand that
@@pianolucky123 it’s sad that she self-sabotaged and ruined something with someone who was actually “there for the right reasons”. When someone is telling you everything you want to hear and never has an opposing idea, it’s probably because they’re lying to you *cough* Tino
Rachel is combative and goes straight into defense mode instead of hearing the people she’s having the disagreement with. I don’t think she’s horrible at all but I do think she has some work to do. It was by far the hardest thing I’ve watched all season and makes it really hard for me to connect/empathize with her.
"Why are you yelling at me??" Oh my lord, I wanted to scream when she said that. So....she's allowed to cry and be all dramatic and carry on, while Aven's just supposed to sit there and take it??? Geez, I really lost a lot of respect for Rachel because of her hypocrisy. She's deeply insecure and lacks the ability to communicate her feelings in a mature, healthy manner. You're right- she has a lot of work to do on herself!!
Aven did absolutely the right thing he was honest about moving forward, and getting engaged over time like most people. Most of these Bachelorette/ bachelor relationship don't last because of the pressure. Rachel wanted the ring more than a great relationship. Relationship are all about compromise, and Rachel wanted it only to be about what she wanted. There's always a price to pay for leaning the hard way Instead of being happy. Rachel just wanted to be right.
It felt like she wanted to “win” so that her second round on the show ended with “success.” She then ends up with Tino, so they can break up after the show like everyone else. But, hey, at least she can claim that she got that ring.
Rachel wanted to do the show the way the show is set up to go. Because she signed a contract, because if she didn't complete the process she would look like a failure to some, because it's bizarre for her guys to pull back suddenly as though they aren't *on the Bachelorette*., Why come on any Bachelor Franchise show if you aren't up for the central premise of the show?? I just don't get it. I get not wanting to get engaged on a reality show after only a couple months, but thats why I WOULD NEVER GO ON THE BACHELOR lol
I don’t think Rachel was upset by what Aven said, I think her pride was hurt. She had just finished saying how great and wonderful he is and how in love they are, but her family saw she was way more into him than he was her. They were just on different pages. She should have brushed it off got over the embarrassment and then went to talk to him. It felt like she self sabotaged because of her pride.
I don't think Rachel's biggest issue with Aven was his needing more time for engagement, but rather that HER misunderstanding of his plans caused her to be HUMILIATED herself in front of her family and friends, and she didn't think she could recover from that and start a life with someone. She turned that humiliation into anger.
Rachel I believe wants the guys to run after her and poor Gabby she just in it to win someone she is emotionally not ready for a marriage. They should have had only one bachelorette because it took away from the whole show.
I'm shocked that neither Aven or Jesse held Rachel accountable for telling Tino she LOVED him, and then flipping out because the guy she only likes a lot isn't ready to propose right this second. Just like Clayton asked his final 2 to stick around and be all in, even though he was "in love" with his final 3. Hey, at least he was honest about it! Rachel did was she said she wouldn't do, didn't own up to it, and then put the blame on Zach and Aven because it was easier that way.
I bet they wanted to call her out but producers told them both to play it cool since I’m guessing they are both in the running for bachelor. Only thing that makes sense.
She told one she is in love and one that she is falling. Literally every bachelor/bachelorette does that. It’s not the same as Clayton who told all 3 women he loved them, and that he was so confused didn’t know who to pick when he had already told Susie that he loved he the most.
I really think it helped not having sex with zach bt with aven sex was already involved so some deeper connection to break. If they all decided to choose that night to talk and know each other deeper i think things would be better. Sex is blinding sometimes and makes you think you love a person while it's just those hormones tricking the brain and bonding you with people bt again if you have sex with enough people that bonding effect breaks so idk about them.
Body language on Rachel is telling, however with Gabby being trained in dance/cheerleading... her smile on stage is also second nature. I hope they both find their joy. 💗
I’m pretty sure it’s obvious things don’t turn out the way she wanted it. Then having to watch all of this back to then realizing that Aven DID want to be with her but at the pace where he was comfortable with live is something too. I’m just going to theorize for a bit here in my opinion. They did the talking behind the cameras and have a mutual understanding. She wanted to move forward with him regardless in front or behind of the camera. He does the meeting with Niel Lane and picks out a ring in front of the camera, but behind the cameras, he talks to Niel about holding on to the ring after the show and plans to at ATFR do it for real. They end up as a couple in the end of the show, date all the way through the airing. Then at the ATFR, do it for real.
Or here’s another theory (again don’t come after me): Aven finds out by the ears of the producers that Rachel and Tino ended their engagement. He wants to know if she’s okay for real once this live taping is done. They meet up super secretly to the point that not even RealitySteve or anyone knows and talk. Flash forward to BIP after where all the cast are at, they do surprise check in with Rachel. Rachel reveals that she is back together with someone from her season and asks this person to come out, it’s Aven. Everyone is happy, camera pans to Teddy, Hunter, and Genevieve as if they knew all along but didn’t say anything at all to anyone. Aven and Rachel talk about how it has been with them since. Everyone is happy as this isn’t something that has happened before. Jesse asks Aven how it’s been to reconnect with her, he is happy and wants to say something else to her. He proposes and crowd goes wild.
I hope Rachel takes this experience as an opportunity for self-reflection. She was the common denominator in her various relationship challenges that left her sobbing. We can learn a lot from those tough experiences that life brings us, hope she takes it up in a way that's helpful for her.
Oh good grief, the common denominator was the show and production. I feel your criticism is misplaced. We have no way of knowing who Rachel, the human, is. We only know what we've seen on television for our entertainment. She's already said she goes to therapy once a week. It's up to her to decide what's helpful and best for her.
Oh man I say with all my love, Rachel is not ready for a casual dating rather alone engagement. She really really need to take some time and just focus on herself. She has lots of time to find a guy that would appreciate her but not when she can’t control her emotions and she’s basically a live rollecestor.
@@bradyhayes7911 it’s wrong focus, if everyone keeps telling her fk everyone you gorgeous, you are perfect and etc she never will learn from her mistakes and get better but it seems like everyone around her is too scared to call her out cuz she might have a full on breakdown.
This! I wasn’t even a fan of hers to start start with, but defended her cause I thought and still do think some of the flack was unwarranted. I can’t any longer though. It was frustrating watching her.
Litterally my experience with this season. I can defend the canceled dates, I can defend the Clare and Daleing with Tino, but I can't defend constant bad decisions back to back to back.
I do thought she was dealt some very harsh cards by production. But much like with Clayton, you can only sympathize with the stupidity so much. Rachel made too many bad decisions and her actions had consequences to the actual guys who were interested in her. She got more upset about the people who rejected her than the people actually there for her like Aven, Evan, Tyler and Zach. She also cancelled dates and didn’t give her give and take 50% with the guys like they were giving to her. And now between her harsh treatment of Zach, her rash dismissal of Tyler and her hypocritical treatment of Aven, there is very little to defend her for. Rachel is making a very strong case for being an even worse lead than Clare. I'm not saying anyone should hate her or wish her ill will or not have happiness in the future, but right now, she has to unfortunately face the backlash like Clayton did.
@@camikaye6795 I genuinely believe that no person go on there for purely romantic purposes, but they can still fall in love. Then the high school pictures, I am waiting to see what he has to say. He strikes me as the type of man who has matured INSANE amounts since hs/college. Still not okay, but idk man doesn’t mean he isn’t a good guy today.
@@camikaye6795 yeah like I said I don’t think it’s abnormal for people to go on the show only for clout and maybe even texting people before, then they are actually surprised and fall in love!
After defending Rachel for her questionable decisions during the show, I'm done. Unfortunately I think she self sabotaged her journey, maybe because she wasn't ready, maybe because she's got healing to do, maybe because she knew it was Tino from the start, but this has been painful to watch, and I do believe they should have gone only for Gabby who's so emotionally mature, interesting and makes great tv with her fun personality. Would have saved many people a lot of heartache.
I absolutely agree...she started the sabotage when she kept Hayden after his comments to Gabby and chose to call dibs on Logan when there clearly was an overlap between both ladies. Gabby backed off immediately but in the end he made the choice for them and switched to Team Gabby. I love me some Rachel but her decision making and gaslighting of Aven and Zach is crazy. Just come on...It wasn't THEM...it was HER focus on Tino that made this last episode having her looking crazy
Gabby also has some healing to do herself. All she does is cry about how mommy didn’t love her as if that’s the end of the world. She has a loving father and step mother, and an amazingly loving grandfather. Yet all she does is say “omgggggg does nobody love meeeee??? Are my mommy issues too much??? Literally I am alone in this world. Am I just tooooooo muchhhh to looooveeee???” Girl get over yourself.
The entire time she was talking with Aven i was so frustrated! If I was him I would have flat out said "well do you want to just get engaged? or engaged to me? theres a huge difference" I mean, ignoring everything with Tino and the fact that she was clearly going to pick him anyways, if she was willing to throw everything away over an engagement when they realistically dont know each other very well then frankly, I wouldn't have stayed in that relationship either.
The amount of red flags I keep seeing from Rachel is astounding. She seems to just shut down and refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with her or bend to her will. I feel it's really admiral that Aven was thinking about them as a couple and not letting the pressure of the show affect his decision. I think she messed up letting him go but I do believe this was a blessing in disguise for him. He deserves someone that will listen to him and take into account his feeling/wants as well.
It's not her will. She's on a television show that is structured to end in engagement. She didn't mess up. She clearly wanted Tino in the end anyways. She just was embarassed in regards to the whole Aven thing. Let's not drag another woman down based on what we see on screen.
Because he already know, he has a bachelor gig so he wanted to look good. To your point though, he is a gentleman but his crying to Jesse Palmer was lil cringy.
The reasons Bachelorette rarely work is wanting a engagement after a month on a reality show and trying so hard to force a relationship in front of the cameras. I think Zach seen how fake Rachel was when the cameras were gone and I’m really glad Aven left without Rachel.
I wasted time defending Rachel at the beginning, but it's so clear she is way too immature and insecure for this. I really think she was less concerned about finding a life partner and more concerned about doing a good job being the Bachelorette. This season should have just been Gabby's. Aven, you dodged a bullet.
How is that clear? Based on what we, as viewers, have been allowed to see on a television show? Of course she is concerneed about being a good Bachelorette. Look at the vitriol you, and others, are spewing her way.
@@taraconverse7696 Please calm down, are you her mom or something? Like I said I'd been defending Rachel this whole time but what we're seeing is beyond editing. In fact, this show is known for featuring 20-somethings who are not actually ready to settle down and are not mature enough to pick a stable life partner over the fleeting chemistry.
i don't know if it's the season or just the franchise as a whole... but god this was exhausting! I haven't been this exhausted with a season since Matt's season. WHERE IS PARADISE?!?! I NEED PARADISE!!!
@@tigerroselili5765 Katie went from being such a positive figure who was open regarding intimacy and didn’t act like it was shameful, and standing up for the bullied and standing up against the bullies, to being a bully herself who throws around words like gaslighting and getting the definition wrong, and shaming and bullying and slandering another person on national television just because she could, and being such a mean, hateful person in general.
@@jasonvargas7564 if ur referring to Greg then ur wrong because what he did was complete manipulation and gaslighting at one point (him telling her she wasn’t listening when she said she was). she had every right to rip him a new ass and the only people who like him are just blinded by their attraction to him. Her image went downhill for me personally when she broke up with Blake and did the 10 days of messy thing but i still defend her behavior with Greg..
I feel Zach went in thinking she was the “one” and then got blindsided when Rachel wasn’t actually that into him and probably turned him down when he wanted intimacy. Thus, Rachel’s comments on just wanting to go to fantasy suites to talk.
When Rachel said "why are you yelling at me?" it felt like she was trying to facilitate a Powerful Bachelorette Moment. it seems like she's gotten very caught up in the process from the beginning and is trying really hard to be the perfect Bachelorette, to her detriment. It's too bad, but this most recent episode made her seem very immature :(
Rachel knows her final pick is Tino for sure. So how does she send the other guys home, she makes up an excuse to send them home and play victim herself. She blamed Zach for questioning her character, which is not true, I think. And blamed Aven for the relationship going downhill, because he was ready and embarrassed her in front of her family. She tells Aven, why he's yelling at her. No, he wasn't, he was calm the whole time and tried to explain, but she didn't want to hear any of it, she took everything out of context. I know she wants to be validated in her feelings, but I think she took it a bit too far. Gabby deserves so much love in her life, for real.
I can't imagine being in a relationship w Rachel. she can't seem to see things outside of her own perspective, and arguments circle back. just not healthy.
No more double seasons. From the start this season was never going to go well. The men had the power from the beginning and I think they felt that the whole way through, then on top of that the women had half the usual pool of guys. They played on Rachel and Gabby's insecurities and manipulated them - no wonder this season is a trainwreck. We've had Gabby, Rachel, Michelle, Katie, Tayshia and Clare - it's too much! Give us a normal Bachelorette season,.
@@highway2heaven91 it was, I agree! I more mean more that there's been 6 bachelorettes for 3 bachelors, it's hard to get behind all of them when there's so many, and by the time Michelle's season came out I was burned out after Katies - and she deserved more than being showhorned between Katie and Clayton and her engagement being sidelined by a Katies breakup.
I don’t want Erich to propose. I would like to see them together all to the end of the show and after the show. What’s wrong with dating? They don’t need to be engaged so soon.
Rachel would’ve been more suited for Paradise in my opinion. Looking at her face, she definitely didn’t want to be at that taping. I like her, but she still has to take some time to figure out what she truly wants and communicate that effectively. Gabby should’ve been given her own full season, but so glad to see her find happiness with Erich.
In Gabby's last scene, I think there was some heavy editing going on. I suspect she is really mad at the producers for pressuring her to pressure Erich. Gabby: "He said he wants to date -I'm not making that up." Producers: "You have to change his mind." Gabby: "What am I supposed to do, walk away if he's not ready to propose." Producers: "Yes". Gabby: "I don't want to do this anymore." Makes perfect sense that way.
“Grandpa John for Bachelor!” I did not like how Jesse made so much mockery of this idea. Reminded me of the opening of Clayton’s season and a gorgeous older woman with grey hair came out of the limo creating confusion because GOD FORBID anyone want an older woman Bring on Bachelor Over 60!!!!!
The more they refuse to go into detail, the more I'm curious about what exactly Zach and Rachel disagreed about! Everybody was speculating it was religion or politics but why wouldnt they just say???
@@gabzzzz2276 yeah but Chris Harrison didn’t get let go from thee show because he liked trump. He got let go for excusing racism. There’s many contestants that support trump have been on the show. The bottom line is she knew she wasn’t picking him. And she showed him that once they got behind closed doors
My thing is that the backlash the contestants and show would get if they bring up politics would be bad even regardless of party. If it was about those convos it wouldn’t be a good look for anyone
I think it’s a generational thing. A lot of people aren’t ready to just fuck up their life for the sake of a tv engagement. They want to build on their relationships. Bach is going to have figure out their formula bc this is just going to keep happening
From the moment Rachel and gabby walked out at the live, it was so clear Rachel was very single and gabby was happy. Gabby was radiant and Rachel looked so bland.
I feel like even the outfits they had them in were very telling. Rachel’s in a boring plain brown dress and Gabby’s in a gorgeous sparkly number with her hair done up all big and everything. Their energy/optics are complete opposites
LOL Lil T and Big T. Made me laugh so hard. So lame that we have to wait until next week for more...I don't see the point. I'm ready for this season to be over!
The problem with the Bachelor /Bachelorette is that they are shortcutting to the emotions and no one has had enough time together to really communicated. Rachel seems like she heard, "I am ready to be engaged, just not with you now." While it seems like wanting to date in the real world is a reasonable request for any of the guys (and not be engaged) the problem is that the guys seem like they were saying that they were going to be ready to propose and now they are backing away. Having seen people date for years and years and not get to an engagement and then when they break up, one or the other gets engaged in a few months, I can appreciate neither woman wanting the limbo of dating if they think they've found the right person.
But let’s be honest, if these guys said that right from the start, they’d all be sent packing home because bachelorettes care more about the engagement and the social media attention and all the “omg omg omgggggg look at that ring!!!!” And getting some likes on Instagram, and then breaking up in a few weeks because she’s over it, rather than making sure the engagement, whenever it does happen, is REAL and that the marriage lasts for life and not just 3 weeks and then breaking up and giving TMZ the inside scoop
@@jasonvargas7564 I agree... and I also submit that guys going on the show are in it for the same reasons and therefore either need to play their part or be real from the start. They might not have stayed until the end with that approach but I think they'd be seen as more genuine. Whoever is on the show is going to be up for criticism either for being in it for the likes and not being sincere or for not being realistic. Often the show serves as a "What not to do" guide. Best case, these relationships are like refrigerator cookies -- they can work in the short run for when you really just need something sweet but they are just no match for homemade chocolate chip cookies.
Look I understand in your mind you go through this ordeal, you’d like the free ring and an engagement which feels more official/long lasting, but Rachel straight up put words in Aven’s mouth. I honestly feel if she talked to him like a normal person and empathized with his situation, they easily could’ve moved past this and probably even got him ready to propose (just like I’m assuming we’ll see with Erich and Gabby next week). It’s why I don’t think her feelings for Aven are genuine because if this were Tino she never would’ve dumped him outright. We’ve seen her overlook the multiple red flags that man carries, so clearly that’s not her real issue. It’s fine if you prefer one guy, but I think manipulating the situation so you don’t have to come off as the full bad guy and just dump them outright is super unfair. It seems really clear her relationship is not in a good place from the preview, and NGL…the way she’s handled this whole thing I’m just not surprised.
Can't believe she is so adamant to.get engaged well if she picks tiny and doesn't last maybe she will realize that what aven was saying was so genuine and logical like diamonds aren't always your best friend if the long lasting love isn't there Rachel u are suppose to be smart gotta wonder
I feel like a lot of Gabby’s conversations in the preview with producers, etc. have been edited to make it seem like she’s demanding an engagement from Erich. However, I feel she may have been questioning THEIR push (the producers) for an engagement, especially when she’s like “I don’t want to pressure him into anything.” Did anyone else catch that? I feel like the producers are to blame for all these forced engagements. Totally believe they’re tied to a deal with Neil Lane or something… otherwise they could play the show like NZ/Australia and just have them walk away together.
It’s so funny because the hole time Aven was trying to explain to her that he DOES LOVE HER and it’s just a question of whether or not this is the right TIME for them both to be engaged, I was thinking hmm this is actually valid (and considering the divorce of his parents). BUUUT CLEARLY Rachel had a hard time getting what he meant. I was like GIRL, listen to what he’s actually saying like what!!!!? Ughhh Like she kept repeating, you lied to me bla-bla-bla… And then I realized that Rachel just wants a ring no matter who the heck gives her one.. wth… Anyways, all this to say that Aven is so well spoken and in touch with his emotions… who the hell lets go of a man like that?
This is the first season where I feel like all the guys don’t want an engagement. I know the point is an engagement at the end. But what if one of the girls sent “the one” home just because they didn’t want to get engaged yet.
I think gabby definitely would have chosen Jason if he had been ready for engagement but went with Erich instead just because he was ready. Makes no sense to be tbh
Yeah ..this season was painful ... It just seems like Rachel grew up as Daddy's Little princess and thinks that the world revolves around her. I don't think Evan was wrong ....his feelings were genuine ...what he thought ...what he felt ....and HE matters too. Evan probably dodged a bullet......... Run Tino run!
Tino doesn’t say anything of substance other than he loves her -after his parents meeting her, and to Big Tony. He seems like he’s playing them/us all.
Between Clayton's repeated rejection and Rachel being rejected several rounds this season, I believe that's all she can hear: rejection. It seems relatively new and she is getting quite familiar with it, so she interpreted Aven as rejecting her also. Too bad it happened on national television, however if this is the way for her to do better and be better, it's for the best for everyone involved.
I get that they go on the show with the expectation of getting engaged if they're picked so it's their problem, but if a woman wants to leave you because you won't propose at the exact time she wants you to, she's not worth your time.
@@taraconverse7696 If you're in a relationship that's going super well, would you leave the guy solely for not proposing at a certain time? If they really want the relationship to work, what's stopping them from looking past the show and going at their own pace when it's over?
@@speedude0164 They're not just in a relationship. They're on a show that is structured to end in enagagement. Also, what's stopping Rachel from pursuing Aven any further is the fact that she likes Tino more.
@@taraconverse7696 That I agree on. It's the show's tradition so if the guys choose to sign up for it a lot of the responsibility falls on them. My point is that getting rid of a man for the sole purpose of him not proposing at a certain time shows that they care more about the image of a perfect Bachelorette ending then about the actual relationship, which if you're in it for more than just the fame as they all say, is not good.
Rachel didn’t like Zach as much as the other two men.. it’s as easy as that. If she did, she wouldn’t have switched up on him behind the cameras. Aven.. poor thing.. really liked Rachel but she needed two proposals and he wasn’t going to produce a ring so he was clearly out. Even tho she was going to say no to Aven anyways. Erich played his “let’s date” card because he was the last guy standing. Tino…. Well we will see it crash and burn next week.
Did they sign a contract or something that none of Zach or Rachel can talk about what happened in the room!? I want details so bad 😂😂 Justice for Zach!!
Tbh, I really feel bad for Rachel like everyone is commenting mean stuff to her. I know she did poor decisions, so did we at one point in our lives. Everyone is praising Gabby and degrading Rachel. I love them both and I hope the best for them
Well, she really needed to grow a pair and break up with these guys because of HER feelings instead of trying to manipulate every situation and make it seem like THEY did something wrong. It's just childish to try to play the victim in every breakup.
I hope he keeps it up if he’s the Bachelor. He seems very level-headed and genuinely ready for love, with a good eye for people and a healthy way of communicating. If he can do all that on the Bachelor, it might be the most refreshing season in a while. A nice break from the clueless guys who are like “I’ve never been in love, but I’m gonna get engaged by the end of this, that’s a good idea!” or who act like they’re in a harem anime.
I don't admire it. Zach trying to beat Rachel to the punch wasn't courageous or bold: it's a rose ceremony for The Bachelorette, it's part of your "job" as a contestant to participate (and not make your fellow contestants have to wait even longer unnecessarily). If it was over for him anyway, what would it hurt to go through the regular order? No, he didn't have to - but the only reason to do otherwise is to flatter his own ego.
I'm going to put on my jersey for the Rachel defense squad, here. I think she made a lot mistakes, absolutely got caught up in the idea she had to get engaged, and wasn't fair to Aven in particular. I also think (a) that she knows that, (b) she's miserable about all of this, and (c) that she was an environment that put an enormous amount of pressure on her to be a "good bachelorette" and get engaged, even as the show overall reduced time with these guys and has just generally lean into horror during the last few episodes of each season. I just hope folks can have some compassion for her and stop the pile-on. And also...of the past five season, four have devolved into a horror show at some point. To me, this says the issue is production more than the lead.
Thank you! I don’t understand why everyone thinks she’s so evil. Isn’t it normal on this show to feel hurt and blindsided that their top picks don’t want to get engaged? If Aven was so sure about a future with her why wouldn’t he just suck it up and propose for the sake of the show? Gabby is upset by Erich so why is it wrong that Rachel is upset with Aven? I just don’t understand why everyone is so mad!
I mean I don't think she's evil or a bad person. I also think in several instances like Clayton she was set up for failure. I don't think she's unworthy of love. I also think she was done dirty by Tino and so many other guys this season. But at the same time, she herself contributed to some of the reduced time by cancelling dates. She choose to continue the season. She was cold to a lot of the guys in the same way she criticized Clayton for. She also caused a lot of drama and didn't take responsibility for that. She was also cruel to a lot of them in the same way she and Gabby fairly criticized Clayton for. That includes Zach and Tyler and Ethan. And then we get into what happened with Aven and the again blatant double standard that she set when he was very clearly the one she should have picked. I again do not hate Rachel. I also get that she's under a lot of pressure. But that's all the more reason why she should have left at the beginning and gotten away from that place.
I agree. I think it’s very telling that the first half of this season had so much footage of her so worked up about being a “good Bachelorette” and has now done a full 180 into Stepford Wife smiling and spouting Bachelor/ette cliches about “clarity.” I don’t think it’s her fault, but she’s clearly gotten to wrapped up in the idea that she’s the “lead” of the show, this is her “job”, and the “story” has to play out a certain way (I.e. an engagement) or else she has failed at her job. The actual connection with someone and finding a serious love doesn’t even factor into the equation if you think about it like that, and she’s surrounded by people who should be helping and guiding her who don’t care about building a lasting relationship, but making a good story for TV.
Rachels dad is such a softie. I feel bad for Rachel but she has poor judgment... Aven and Zach were far better choices than Tino. Granted Tino might not be a carbon copy of his family but I'm seeing red flags all over.
I think if you're really so caught up on the engagement part that your willing to let someone go that you "love" you don't truly love them, you wouldn't let them go if you did not really.
@@taraconverse7696 Then the structure needs to change. It's supposed to be about finding love. They are sabotaging their own journeys and vilifying the guys for wanting more time with them outside the show before getting engaged. The Australian version doesn't usually end in an engagement and has more successful relationships.
@@debbiecharles7912 but this ain’t Australia. The show is built on heterosexual Christian conservative norms. I don’t see it changing so we might as well just buckle up for the ride.
@@Ploopbloopz maybe. My understanding of the comment was that in going on the show, Rachel’s only goal was to get a ring (get engaged) and feel wanted regardless of whom she’s getting those things from.
It made me so uncomfortable to watch Rachel at the end there. I kept wondering why they didn't pan away from her or something? They just kept zooming in on her unhappy, unhappy face...
Run, Aven, run! She is too young and immature. She thinks you're yelling?! If she loved you, she would willing to wait. She cries when she could use her big girl words. If you were my friend, I would encourage you to take the time you need!
She definitely needs to grow up. Not everything is going to be 100 percent perfect. She always throw the baby out with the bathwater, and it pretty annoying.
I liked Rachel in the beginning but she really started to piss me off towards the end of the season. Aven was being realistic and mature, I felt he really loved her and wanted a future with her but his concerns were 100% valid. Reality T.V is far from reality and he understands that once the show is over the dynamic completely changes, you need to get to know each other without the cameras, traveling, glitz and glamor, especially when it comes to marriage. All she wanted was a ring and a title and if that’s all she wanted Aven dodged a bullet honestly. I almost felt like she just picked Tino because that was her last option, it’s sad but lots of these of reality stars don’t understand what it means to have a sustainable and healthy relationship behind closed doors. They’re too lost in fantasy land. I would rather walk away as boyfriend and girlfriend knowing someone genuinely loves me and wants a future with me and is working towards the goal of marriage over a last resort just because they’re willing to give me a ring 🤷🏽♀️ that’s just me tho
Are we just Bored To Death? that was the most predictable finale! And they basically have shown us play by play of what is to come next week. Rachel overly tried to micromanage her guys. Aven voiced real concerns while Tino just was placating Rachel to win her over! Until… he no longer wanted her (or got tired of her once the game was over) is my guess. I do feel that Rachel doesn’t know what is good for her, she basically likes bad boys. Maybe it’s her age or lack of maturity to see the whole relationship picture. You can’t boss people around, and act like a deserving Queen. You need to build the castle together and become Queen and King together.
Concerning the Bachelorettes and wanting an engagement at the end: All the Bachelorettes are and have been beautiful. They can get dates and guys to date them on their own without going on the show. In the past beginning with Trista the first Bachelorette they have said they are tired of the players and that dating scene. They don't want to leave with a boyfriend to date. They want to leave with someone to marry. This has been the Bachelorette's perspective which of course is not always the same perspective as that of the Bachelors.
on one hand the men are being reasonable… on the other hand, it’s a tv show, and i feel like they should just “get engaged” and then date for awhile like previous people have done it. I mean, if they’re going to be this reasonable, maybe don’t go on the bachelorette where it’s the expectation to propose at the end. It’s fine if you think proposing after so little time is crazy… it IS crazy. But you’re signing up for this so just do the engagement which we all know doesn’t mean ur getting married right away, it’s like a fake engagement just to give us a nice ending. That said, i would never break up with Aven lol
How could you get engaged to someone without really knowing the person?... after only a couple of dates that were constantly under supervision of a whole film/production crew? The only real candid men are the ones that honestly say, that they like the woman but can't make such a important decision like an engagement yet!! Everything else is for 90 percent of the candidates nothing nore than a lie!
With the BN break up rate an engagement is only some sort of commitment. If you're not ready to give your lead that, it only means you want out and know it will not last long term
I feel so, so bad for Rachel. Everybody online has been like "Aven's being so sensible, of course you wouldn't be ready for an engagement after so little time! Rachel's being crazy wanting an engagement!" as though we weren't watching THE BACHELORETTE. It's the central premise -- the entire *ethos* of the franchise. Do I think it's a good premise? LOL NO. But it's the game. This is the game show, and the way you win the game show is you get "engaged". THEN you date in the real world, after reaping the copious rewards of winning said game show. If you don't want to play that game, whyyyy would you be in the arena?? All due respect to Aven (who does seem lovely!), and also Johnny and Jason and Erich, frankly, but... If you only want to get engaged once, getting down on one knee is something sacred to you and you can't imagine spending it in this environment after this little time, WHY ARE YOU ON THIS SHOW? There are a zillion dating shows these days, a zillion ways to become influencers, why here? Why this show? And why are the producers throwing their lead under the bus and making her look crazy/villainous for simply upholding the rules *they set*? It reeks of misogyny to me. That doesn't mean I agree with every choice Rachel's made, at all. But none of this Bachelor Nation response and producing sits right with me.
This!!!! Literally what I’m saying they’re all going on there to become famous and pretending to not know the show is all about getting engaged!! If I were a lead I would be frustrated too because why did you come on here , accept EVERY FREAKING ROSE for 6 weeks just to waste my time at the end saying you’re not ready to be engaged. Honestly Aven is full of crap with his excuse. And so is Jason and Johnny smh they just want fame
Haven’t there been seasons where they don’t get engaged, but rather agree to continue dating instead, and I believe there have been some success stories that way? Why rush into an engagement that should ideally only happen once, and then just break up weeks later because you realized living in the real world with the other person just isn’t it?
I feel like Rachel is terrible at Poker.
@Bachelor Fantake, heard about another Erich scandal?
I mean why would they want us to even see her reaction it’s so obvious she’s miserable watching it back. That or she’s a great actor.
Oh yeah. She’s bummed. 🫤
Yeah she bummed but, she got alot of growing up to do.
@@nicholasgarrick8855
Big time growing up to do!
She knew she was going for Tino and made Aven look like a liar to try and justify the fact that she wanted Tino. Totally ignorant way to go about it. Her true colors really came to light during "HER" argument with Aven!!! He didn't know it at the time, but he dodged the bullet!!! And if she does get engaged to Tino, I don't believe they'll last long...and THEN we'll hear what a liar he was!! She's just a spoiled b""t, and has ALOT of growing up and maturing to do!!!
Rachel's face during the live segment screamed, "contractually obligated to be here".
🤣
LOL so true
I love Rachel.
It’s giving Katy Perry’s “I’m only here so I don’t get fined 😐”
Lmao
Imagine being so hung up on engagements that love is not a factor.
Also delivering the statement "what we are discussing here is so important that abc gave us extra time" with a straight face is just prooving we are in the darkest timeline.
Well said
Sums up the franchise
It's The Bachelorette not regular life. So I disagree with the first sentiment. Of course they're upset about the idea of no proposal.
But the last part of your comment is SPOT ON!
Lmao
@@erikaroth6049
Okay... you still can’t deny that proposals are much more prioritized than actual love. That is incredibly disturbing no matter what.
Aven’s parents’ divorce obviously weighed heavily on his judgement in a really honest and respectable way. He clearly loved Rachel and wanted to do it right. Rachel canceled several dates, cocktail parties, etc leaving some time lost and still had Tino around… I can absolutely understand Aven’s feelings once the dreaminess of fantasy suites ended and reality began to set back in. I don’t know. He seems sincere.
The show is reality too. If he knows she’s the one and he is going to marry her, I don’t see why timing matters at all
@@thehousespouse because he might think she’s the one now…and then propose…and then they have to live their lives for real now…no cameras, no fancy hotels paid for, no champagne everywhere, no glitz and glam. Are they compatible living together day to day? What are their routines and habits? Do they micromanage each other or do they let the other live? Where do they end up living? Is relocation easy? What about finances? Debt to income ratio? Are they financially responsible? Are they happy after the honeymoon phase or do they slowly resent each other?
A marriage is supposed to be for life. An engagement is supposed to be once. Why rush into something so important?
@@jasonvargas7564 then he doesn’t know she’s the one, and he’s using misleading wording. Most of those things they could discuss in fantasy suites and the rest they can work through together if they are committed to each other.
It honestly pissed me off to no end how he said he wanted everything she wanted. To give her a home, a family, to be with her and all she heard was “I’m not proposing now.”
Like it’s not the same as Peter where he said he doesn’t know if he wants to propose. He DOES want to just after they’re settled.
But no. Rachel is her own worst enemy.
i agree, but this shouldve been talked about a WHILE ago between them
This whole time I really thought Tino was her guy from the very beginning but the way she talked about Aven after overnights and how she talked about him to her family, it was definitely him. And based on the look on her face watching back the clips of them, it seems like she was full of regret. Especially since Aven could have definitely gotten there with her and was clearly committed to being with her. Seems like Tino has just been telling her what she wants to hear from the start.
If Aven was her guy, and he certainly seemed to be, and she gave him up because he didn’t want to get engaged yet then he dodged a bullet and she has some personal growing to do.
Wholeheartedly agree with this assessment! During their discussions, Aven was just being realistic and truthful with Rachel. The way she was nitpicking and misinterpreting his words made it seem like she was purposely looking for a way out of their relationship.
Exactly !!! Aven said so himself “I’m not going to tell you what you want to hear I’m going to tell you how I honestly feel” whereas tino just told her what she wanted to hear
@@stellashepherd3229 it’s crazy because in their first conversation he never said he wasn’t going to propose. He said could be a few days or a few months etc. He definitely still could of proposed at the end. I think he just wanted to be sure it was him at the end before he made a definitive statement. Which is smart but of course Rachel just couldn’t understand that
@@pianolucky123 it’s sad that she self-sabotaged and ruined something with someone who was actually “there for the right reasons”. When someone is telling you everything you want to hear and never has an opposing idea, it’s probably because they’re lying to you *cough* Tino
Rachel is combative and goes straight into defense mode instead of hearing the people she’s having the disagreement with. I don’t think she’s horrible at all but I do think she has some work to do. It was by far the hardest thing I’ve watched all season and makes it really hard for me to connect/empathize with her.
Contestants on this show have a really annoying habit of blaming others for their own feelings being hurt. Rachel might be the worst of it.
"Why are you yelling at me??" Oh my lord, I wanted to scream when she said that. So....she's allowed to cry and be all dramatic and carry on, while Aven's just supposed to sit there and take it??? Geez, I really lost a lot of respect for Rachel because of her hypocrisy. She's deeply insecure and lacks the ability to communicate her feelings in a mature, healthy manner. You're right- she has a lot of work to do on herself!!
Agree although I would add that she has selfish tendencies and they were on display throughout the entire season. Gabby handled the role beautifully.
Aven did absolutely the right thing he was honest about moving forward, and getting engaged over time like most people. Most of these Bachelorette/ bachelor relationship don't last because of the pressure. Rachel wanted the ring more than a great relationship. Relationship are all about compromise, and Rachel wanted it only to be about what she wanted. There's always a price to pay for leaning the hard way Instead of being happy. Rachel just wanted to be right.
Yep. It was incredibly frustrating watching her this season.
Spot on. If she genuinely loved this dude she would have been fine moving at a pace he was comfortable with
It felt like she wanted to “win” so that her second round on the show ended with “success.” She then ends up with Tino, so they can break up after the show like everyone else. But, hey, at least she can claim that she got that ring.
Rachel wanted to do the show the way the show is set up to go. Because she signed a contract, because if she didn't complete the process she would look like a failure to some, because it's bizarre for her guys to pull back suddenly as though they aren't *on the Bachelorette*.,
Why come on any Bachelor Franchise show if you aren't up for the central premise of the show?? I just don't get it.
I get not wanting to get engaged on a reality show after only a couple months, but thats why I WOULD NEVER GO ON THE BACHELOR lol
“rachel wanted the ring more than a great relationship” this is spot on!!
I don’t think Rachel was upset by what Aven said, I think her pride was hurt. She had just finished saying how great and wonderful he is and how in love they are, but her family saw she was way more into him than he was her. They were just on different pages. She should have brushed it off got over the embarrassment and then went to talk to him. It felt like she self sabotaged because of her pride.
100% agree
Yes she was embarrassed and it sucks that she wasn’t able to get past that
@@TheSuperNats I agree, he seemed like a really great guy!
I don't think Rachel's biggest issue with Aven was his needing more time for engagement,
but rather that HER misunderstanding of his plans caused her to be HUMILIATED herself in front of her family and friends, and she didn't think she could recover from that and start a life with someone. She turned that humiliation into anger.
THIS! yes 🙌
Rachel I believe wants the guys to run after her and poor Gabby she just in it to win someone she is emotionally not ready for a marriage. They should have had only one bachelorette because it took away from the whole show.
I'm shocked that neither Aven or Jesse held Rachel accountable for telling Tino she LOVED him, and then flipping out because the guy she only likes a lot isn't ready to propose right this second. Just like Clayton asked his final 2 to stick around and be all in, even though he was "in love" with his final 3. Hey, at least he was honest about it! Rachel did was she said she wouldn't do, didn't own up to it, and then put the blame on Zach and Aven because it was easier that way.
Narcisistic behavior.
I said Tino is obsessed with racquel not in love an she also did a Clayton role
Agree totally!
I bet they wanted to call her out but producers told them both to play it cool since I’m guessing they are both in the running for bachelor. Only thing that makes sense.
She told one she is in love and one that she is falling. Literally every bachelor/bachelorette does that. It’s not the same as Clayton who told all 3 women he loved them, and that he was so confused didn’t know who to pick when he had already told Susie that he loved he the most.
She gave Aven such a hard time. Makes it seem like he was her #1. With Zach, she didn't even flinch when he left.
I really think it helped not having sex with zach bt with aven sex was already involved so some deeper connection to break. If they all decided to choose that night to talk and know each other deeper i think things would be better. Sex is blinding sometimes and makes you think you love a person while it's just those hormones tricking the brain and bonding you with people bt again if you have sex with enough people that bonding effect breaks so idk about them.
Aven and Zach dodged a bullet and I'm sure they have realized it by now...
I think she let Aven got some and that’s why she reacted that way emotionally with him
@@ejuwera Aven’s definitely packing major heat 😍
@@ejuwera facts
Body language on Rachel is telling, however with Gabby being trained in dance/cheerleading... her smile on stage is also second nature. I hope they both find their joy. 💗
I agree, I wouldn’t be surprised if Gabby is single as well .. although I hope she’s happy!
I’m pretty sure it’s obvious things don’t turn out the way she wanted it. Then having to watch all of this back to then realizing that Aven DID want to be with her but at the pace where he was comfortable with live is something too. I’m just going to theorize for a bit here in my opinion. They did the talking behind the cameras and have a mutual understanding. She wanted to move forward with him regardless in front or behind of the camera. He does the meeting with Niel Lane and picks out a ring in front of the camera, but behind the cameras, he talks to Niel about holding on to the ring after the show and plans to at ATFR do it for real. They end up as a couple in the end of the show, date all the way through the airing. Then at the ATFR, do it for real.
Or here’s another theory (again don’t come after me): Aven finds out by the ears of the producers that Rachel and Tino ended their engagement. He wants to know if she’s okay for real once this live taping is done. They meet up super secretly to the point that not even RealitySteve or anyone knows and talk. Flash forward to BIP after where all the cast are at, they do surprise check in with Rachel. Rachel reveals that she is back together with someone from her season and asks this person to come out, it’s Aven. Everyone is happy, camera pans to Teddy, Hunter, and Genevieve as if they knew all along but didn’t say anything at all to anyone. Aven and Rachel talk about how it has been with them since. Everyone is happy as this isn’t something that has happened before. Jesse asks Aven how it’s been to reconnect with her, he is happy and wants to say something else to her. He proposes and crowd goes wild.
All I can do is thank Rachel for letting Aven go. means I've still got an extremely miniscule chance
Right? If she doesn't want him, I'll HAPPILY take him.
lmfao!!!
Brb relocating to Aven’s current city
Lol
Wait wtf? You actually find Aven attractive?
I hope Rachel takes this experience as an opportunity for self-reflection. She was the common denominator in her various relationship challenges that left her sobbing. We can learn a lot from those tough experiences that life brings us, hope she takes it up in a way that's helpful for her.
Oh good grief, the common denominator was the show and production. I feel your criticism is misplaced. We have no way of knowing who Rachel, the human, is. We only know what we've seen on television for our entertainment. She's already said she goes to therapy once a week. It's up to her to decide what's helpful and best for her.
Oh man I say with all my love, Rachel is not ready for a casual dating rather alone engagement. She really really need to take some time and just focus on herself. She has lots of time to find a guy that would appreciate her but not when she can’t control her emotions and she’s basically a live rollecestor.
If anything, it seems like too much of the focus has been on herself.
@@bradyhayes7911 it’s wrong focus, if everyone keeps telling her fk everyone you gorgeous, you are perfect and etc she never will learn from her mistakes and get better but it seems like everyone around her is too scared to call her out cuz she might have a full on breakdown.
I was a Rachel apologist at first but you can only defend so much, she literally only makes bad decisions
This! I wasn’t even a fan of hers to start start with, but defended her cause I thought and still do think some of the flack was unwarranted. I can’t any longer though. It was frustrating watching her.
Litterally my experience with this season. I can defend the canceled dates, I can defend the Clare and Daleing with Tino, but I can't defend constant bad decisions back to back to back.
I do thought she was dealt some very harsh cards by production.
But much like with Clayton, you can only sympathize with the stupidity so much. Rachel made too many bad decisions and her actions had consequences to the actual guys who were interested in her. She got more upset about the people who rejected her than the people actually there for her like Aven, Evan, Tyler and Zach. She also cancelled dates and didn’t give her give and take 50% with the guys like they were giving to her. And now between her harsh treatment of Zach, her rash dismissal of Tyler and her hypocritical treatment of Aven, there is very little to defend her for. Rachel is making a very strong case for being an even worse lead than Clare.
I'm not saying anyone should hate her or wish her ill will or not have happiness in the future, but right now, she has to unfortunately face the backlash like Clayton did.
@@wizzem7890 so what bad decisions are you referring to then?
@@taraconverse7696 I don't think you and I were watching the same show.
Watching gabby smile watching her and Erich made me so happy! I think Rachel is PISSED that people aren’t liking her.
She did it to herself!!!
are you not aware of all the stuff that came out about him?
@@camikaye6795 I genuinely believe that no person go on there for purely romantic purposes, but they can still fall in love. Then the high school pictures, I am waiting to see what he has to say. He strikes me as the type of man who has matured INSANE amounts since hs/college. Still not okay, but idk man doesn’t mean he isn’t a good guy today.
@@savannahrains8187 i’m not only talking about the racism. i am also talking about the stuff that came out about his ex girlfriend.
@@camikaye6795 yeah like I said I don’t think it’s abnormal for people to go on the show only for clout and maybe even texting people before, then they are actually surprised and fall in love!
After defending Rachel for her questionable decisions during the show, I'm done. Unfortunately I think she self sabotaged her journey, maybe because she wasn't ready, maybe because she's got healing to do, maybe because she knew it was Tino from the start, but this has been painful to watch, and I do believe they should have gone only for Gabby who's so emotionally mature, interesting and makes great tv with her fun personality. Would have saved many people a lot of heartache.
100 percent. Gabby deserved her own season. Rachel needs growth before she settles down.
Yes I almost wish Gabby got another chance at being Bachelorette…
I absolutely agree...she started the sabotage when she kept Hayden after his comments to Gabby and chose to call dibs on Logan when there clearly was an overlap between both ladies. Gabby backed off immediately but in the end he made the choice for them and switched to Team Gabby.
I love me some Rachel but her decision making and gaslighting of Aven and Zach is crazy. Just come on...It wasn't THEM...it was HER focus on Tino that made this last episode having her looking crazy
I couldn’t put it better. + she is just sooooooo fake. Not even one laugh felt real. Facts
Gabby also has some healing to do herself. All she does is cry about how mommy didn’t love her as if that’s the end of the world. She has a loving father and step mother, and an amazingly loving grandfather. Yet all she does is say “omgggggg does nobody love meeeee??? Are my mommy issues too much??? Literally I am alone in this world. Am I just tooooooo muchhhh to looooveeee???” Girl get over yourself.
The entire time she was talking with Aven i was so frustrated! If I was him I would have flat out said "well do you want to just get engaged? or engaged to me? theres a huge difference" I mean, ignoring everything with Tino and the fact that she was clearly going to pick him anyways, if she was willing to throw everything away over an engagement when they realistically dont know each other very well then frankly, I wouldn't have stayed in that relationship either.
Y'all have only known each other in a fantasy world... Aven is making 100% sense. He's being logical.
Right, but that doesn't apply when Aven was choosing to be in a show that is structured to end in engagment.
The amount of red flags I keep seeing from Rachel is astounding. She seems to just shut down and refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with her or bend to her will. I feel it's really admiral that Aven was thinking about them as a couple and not letting the pressure of the show affect his decision. I think she messed up letting him go but I do believe this was a blessing in disguise for him. He deserves someone that will listen to him and take into account his feeling/wants as well.
It's not her will. She's on a television show that is structured to end in engagement. She didn't mess up. She clearly wanted Tino in the end anyways. She just was embarassed in regards to the whole Aven thing. Let's not drag another woman down based on what we see on screen.
@@taraconverse7696 I think Aven was Rachel's first choice not Tino.
Zach was such a gentleman to apologize to Rachel when there was no reason for him to do so.
He’s a phony. Seems like he’s mad he didn’t get laid.
Because he already know, he has a bachelor gig so he wanted to look good. To your point though, he is a gentleman but his crying to Jesse Palmer was lil cringy.
I was passed. These men need to put Rachel in the hot seat. She has been doing everything wrong
The reasons Bachelorette rarely work is wanting a engagement after a month on a reality show and trying so hard to force a relationship in front of the cameras. I think Zach seen how fake Rachel was when the cameras were gone and I’m really glad Aven left without Rachel.
Good points.
Then don’t go on the show.
I could see she didn’t like Zach from the start
Yes those guys definitely dodged a disaster
@@ekayburke 😃 you figured out my main point
I wasted time defending Rachel at the beginning, but it's so clear she is way too immature and insecure for this. I really think she was less concerned about finding a life partner and more concerned about doing a good job being the Bachelorette. This season should have just been Gabby's. Aven, you dodged a bullet.
How is that clear? Based on what we, as viewers, have been allowed to see on a television show? Of course she is concerneed about being a good Bachelorette. Look at the vitriol you, and others, are spewing her way.
@@taraconverse7696 Please calm down, are you her mom or something? Like I said I'd been defending Rachel this whole time but what we're seeing is beyond editing. In fact, this show is known for featuring 20-somethings who are not actually ready to settle down and are not mature enough to pick a stable life partner over the fleeting chemistry.
i don't know if it's the season or just the franchise as a whole... but god this was exhausting! I haven't been this exhausted with a season since Matt's season. WHERE IS PARADISE?!?! I NEED PARADISE!!!
All Rachel had to do was avoid being bachelorette and she probably would’ve remained the fan favorite. Same thing happened to Katie.
Die a hero or live long enough to be a villain lol
The Katie hate is ridiculous.
Katie was way worse
@@tigerroselili5765 Katie went from being such a positive figure who was open regarding intimacy and didn’t act like it was shameful, and standing up for the bullied and standing up against the bullies, to being a bully herself who throws around words like gaslighting and getting the definition wrong, and shaming and bullying and slandering another person on national television just because she could, and being such a mean, hateful person in general.
@@jasonvargas7564 if ur referring to Greg then ur wrong because what he did was complete manipulation and gaslighting at one point (him telling her she wasn’t listening when she said she was). she had every right to rip him a new ass and the only people who like him are just blinded by their attraction to him. Her image went downhill for me personally when she broke up with Blake and did the 10 days of messy thing but i still defend her behavior with Greg..
Gabby tried to keep her poker face and not to smile few time but, failed😭😂.
Her face during the whole episode, as well as how she looks at each of the guys live, make it seem like she’s single now.
I feel Zach went in thinking she was the “one” and then got blindsided when Rachel wasn’t actually that into him and probably turned him down when he wanted intimacy. Thus, Rachel’s comments on just wanting to go to fantasy suites to talk.
When Aven gave Tony the cigar, immediately saw him as Tony Soprano and burst out laughing 😂😂😂👍
When Rachel said "why are you yelling at me?" it felt like she was trying to facilitate a Powerful Bachelorette Moment. it seems like she's gotten very caught up in the process from the beginning and is trying really hard to be the perfect Bachelorette, to her detriment. It's too bad, but this most recent episode made her seem very immature :(
Rachel knows her final pick is Tino for sure. So how does she send the other guys home, she makes up an excuse to send them home and play victim herself. She blamed Zach for questioning her character, which is not true, I think. And blamed Aven for the relationship going downhill, because he was ready and embarrassed her in front of her family. She tells Aven, why he's yelling at her. No, he wasn't, he was calm the whole time and tried to explain, but she didn't want to hear any of it, she took everything out of context. I know she wants to be validated in her feelings, but I think she took it a bit too far.
Gabby deserves so much love in her life, for real.
Well said Tino and racquel will not last
Gaslighting and narcissistic behavior
I say "this is a load of barnacles" way too much. Love having it related back to this 😂
Will be absolutely thrilled to see Gabby happy and in love at the end of this. She deserves it.
I can't imagine being in a relationship w Rachel. she can't seem to see things outside of her own perspective, and arguments circle back. just not healthy.
Rachel has clearly never actually been yelled at. Lucky girl.
No more double seasons. From the start this season was never going to go well. The men had the power from the beginning and I think they felt that the whole way through, then on top of that the women had half the usual pool of guys. They played on Rachel and Gabby's insecurities and manipulated them - no wonder this season is a trainwreck. We've had Gabby, Rachel, Michelle, Katie, Tayshia and Clare - it's too much! Give us a normal Bachelorette season,.
💯💯💯
👏👏👏
Yes this 💯
Michelle’s season was pretty normal
@@highway2heaven91 it was, I agree! I more mean more that there's been 6 bachelorettes for 3 bachelors, it's hard to get behind all of them when there's so many, and by the time Michelle's season came out I was burned out after Katies - and she deserved more than being showhorned between Katie and Clayton and her engagement being sidelined by a Katies breakup.
I don’t want Erich to propose. I would like to see them together all to the end of the show and after the show. What’s wrong with dating? They don’t need to be engaged so soon.
Rachel would’ve been more suited for Paradise in my opinion. Looking at her face, she definitely didn’t want to be at that taping. I like her, but she still has to take some time to figure out what she truly wants and communicate that effectively. Gabby should’ve been given her own full season, but so glad to see her find happiness with Erich.
In Gabby's last scene, I think there was some heavy editing going on. I suspect she is really mad at the producers for pressuring her to pressure Erich. Gabby: "He said he wants to date -I'm not making that up." Producers: "You have to change his mind." Gabby: "What am I supposed to do, walk away if he's not ready to propose." Producers: "Yes". Gabby: "I don't want to do this anymore." Makes perfect sense that way.
Avin!!! You did the right thing Bud!! Don’t ever be forced into an engagement your not ready for!!!!!!!!
Rachel is exhausting! It's all about her all the time. I'm glad Zach & Aven dodged that bullet
You’re exhausting
Totally exhausting!!! 🥱
Yes. Narcissist too. She needs therapy
"Abercrombie and FETCH" Oh my goodness, that made me laugh at loud. You're quite clever with your sneaky little jokes!
Gabby shouldv'e been solo bachelorette.......
Last week didn’t Rachel say her family always talks in raised voices, but even one octave up and Aven is yelling
“Grandpa John for Bachelor!” I did not like how Jesse made so much mockery of this idea.
Reminded me of the opening of Clayton’s season and a gorgeous older woman with grey hair came out of the limo creating confusion because GOD FORBID anyone want an older woman
Bring on Bachelor Over 60!!!!!
This whole season could have been an email.
🤣🤣🤣
Crying🤣🤣🤣
LMAO
Best comment ever
This whole season should have been deleted!
The more they refuse to go into detail, the more I'm curious about what exactly Zach and Rachel disagreed about! Everybody was speculating it was religion or politics but why wouldnt they just say???
Bc imagine if someone openly basically says they support trump after Chris Harrison got kicked off the franchise for you know….
I think what they disagreed on was him wanting her and her wanting the other guys
I just think Rachel wasn’t feeling him and said he wasn’t ready so she had an excuse to dump him (he knew it was coming so he left first)
@@gabzzzz2276 yeah but Chris Harrison didn’t get let go from thee show because he liked trump. He got let go for excusing racism. There’s many contestants that support trump have been on the show.
The bottom line is she knew she wasn’t picking him. And she showed him that once they got behind closed doors
My thing is that the backlash the contestants and show would get if they bring up politics would be bad even regardless of party. If it was about those convos it wouldn’t be a good look for anyone
I end up watching so many episode recaps but yours is always the best one!
I'm done with this show, but will continue watching these. The only good thing about this stale, fake franchise.
Aven dodged a bullet!
At this point I just need to recover as this trainwreck of a season ends jeez.
I think it’s a generational thing. A lot of people aren’t ready to just fuck up their life for the sake of a tv engagement. They want to build on their relationships. Bach is going to have figure out their formula bc this is just going to keep happening
From the moment Rachel and gabby walked out at the live, it was so clear Rachel was very single and gabby was happy. Gabby was radiant and Rachel looked so bland.
I feel like even the outfits they had them in were very telling. Rachel’s in a boring plain brown dress and Gabby’s in a gorgeous sparkly number with her hair done up all big and everything. Their energy/optics are complete opposites
I can't really say that I'm very interested in the Rachel drama with Zach and Aven after she already told Tino she loved him last week.
LOL Lil T and Big T. Made me laugh so hard. So lame that we have to wait until next week for more...I don't see the point. I'm ready for this season to be over!
I feel like the name Tino is the anti-Tony 😂
The problem with the Bachelor /Bachelorette is that they are shortcutting to the emotions and no one has had enough time together to really communicated. Rachel seems like she heard, "I am ready to be engaged, just not with you now." While it seems like wanting to date in the real world is a reasonable request for any of the guys (and not be engaged) the problem is that the guys seem like they were saying that they were going to be ready to propose and now they are backing away. Having seen people date for years and years and not get to an engagement and then when they break up, one or the other gets engaged in a few months, I can appreciate neither woman wanting the limbo of dating if they think they've found the right person.
But let’s be honest, if these guys said that right from the start, they’d all be sent packing home because bachelorettes care more about the engagement and the social media attention and all the “omg omg omgggggg look at that ring!!!!” And getting some likes on Instagram, and then breaking up in a few weeks because she’s over it, rather than making sure the engagement, whenever it does happen, is REAL and that the marriage lasts for life and not just 3 weeks and then breaking up and giving TMZ the inside scoop
@@jasonvargas7564 I agree... and I also submit that guys going on the show are in it for the same reasons and therefore either need to play their part or be real from the start. They might not have stayed until the end with that approach but I think they'd be seen as more genuine. Whoever is on the show is going to be up for criticism either for being in it for the likes and not being sincere or for not being realistic. Often the show serves as a "What not to do" guide. Best case, these relationships are like refrigerator cookies -- they can work in the short run for when you really just need something sweet but they are just no match for homemade chocolate chip cookies.
@@jasonvargas7564 Well said!
The Abercrombie & Fetch logo sent me 😂. Awesome video, as always!
Look I understand in your mind you go through this ordeal, you’d like the free ring and an engagement which feels more official/long lasting, but Rachel straight up put words in Aven’s mouth. I honestly feel if she talked to him like a normal person and empathized with his situation, they easily could’ve moved past this and probably even got him ready to propose (just like I’m assuming we’ll see with Erich and Gabby next week). It’s why I don’t think her feelings for Aven are genuine because if this were Tino she never would’ve dumped him outright. We’ve seen her overlook the multiple red flags that man carries, so clearly that’s not her real issue. It’s fine if you prefer one guy, but I think manipulating the situation so you don’t have to come off as the full bad guy and just dump them outright is super unfair. It seems really clear her relationship is not in a good place from the preview, and NGL…the way she’s handled this whole thing I’m just not surprised.
sadly your post truly shows how every girl handles breakups. They do it like that every time
Can't believe she is so adamant to.get engaged well if she picks tiny and doesn't last maybe she will realize that what aven was saying was so genuine and logical like diamonds aren't always your best friend if the long lasting love isn't there Rachel u are suppose to be smart gotta wonder
I’m crying at the yelling edit 😂 I totally forgot about that scene!!
i’ve been waiting for this. i couldn’t watch as i’m traveling & all i wanted was your recap😍
ive never clicked so fast. ur the best bach page
I feel like a lot of Gabby’s conversations in the preview with producers, etc. have been edited to make it seem like she’s demanding an engagement from Erich.
However, I feel she may have been questioning THEIR push (the producers) for an engagement, especially when she’s like “I don’t want to pressure him into anything.” Did anyone else catch that?
I feel like the producers are to blame for all these forced engagements. Totally believe they’re tied to a deal with Neil Lane or something… otherwise they could play the show like NZ/Australia and just have them walk away together.
It’s so funny because the hole time Aven was trying to explain to her that he DOES LOVE HER and it’s just a question of whether or not this is the right TIME for them both to be engaged, I was thinking hmm this is actually valid (and considering the divorce of his parents). BUUUT CLEARLY Rachel had a hard time getting what he meant. I was like GIRL, listen to what he’s actually saying like what!!!!? Ughhh Like she kept repeating, you lied to me bla-bla-bla… And then I realized that Rachel just wants a ring no matter who the heck gives her one.. wth… Anyways, all this to say that Aven is so well spoken and in touch with his emotions… who the hell lets go of a man like that?
Idk why but when she said “why are you yelling at me???” When he clearly wasn’t is kinda sitting with me weird..
This is the first season where I feel like all the guys don’t want an engagement. I know the point is an engagement at the end. But what if one of the girls sent “the one” home just because they didn’t want to get engaged yet.
I think gabby definitely would have chosen Jason if he had been ready for engagement but went with Erich instead just because he was ready. Makes no sense to be tbh
Yeah ..this season was painful ...
It just seems like Rachel grew up as Daddy's Little princess and thinks that the world revolves around her.
I don't think Evan was wrong ....his feelings were genuine ...what he thought ...what he felt ....and HE matters too.
Evan probably dodged a bullet......... Run Tino run!
For sure, she is one high-maintenance person. I am actually glad Aven will have the chance to find the right person because it's not this diva.
I think she realizes she fumbled the Evan bag, hardcore. That’s the look of deep regret.
I’m really enjoying the “compare and contrast” options provided by having dual Bachelorettes this season.
Also…Tino? Really, Rachel? 🤷♀️🤦♀️🙄😳💐
Tino doesn’t say anything of substance other than he loves her -after his parents meeting her, and to Big Tony. He seems like he’s playing them/us all.
Tino doesn’t even look that good
@@alswonderland Exactly 🤦♀️😂💐
Ready for the most dramatic ending next Tuesday!
Yes! (And ready for it to be over!) Bring on BIP! 😎🌴
Rachel is spoiled and used to getting her way!
Between Clayton's repeated rejection and Rachel being rejected several rounds this season, I believe that's all she can hear: rejection. It seems relatively new and she is getting quite familiar with it, so she interpreted Aven as rejecting her also. Too bad it happened on national television, however if this is the way for her to do better and be better, it's for the best for everyone involved.
I went to watch this on Hulu yesterday and decided half way through I’d just wait for the recap lol bunch of barnacles 💯
I get that they go on the show with the expectation of getting engaged if they're picked so it's their problem, but if a woman wants to leave you because you won't propose at the exact time she wants you to, she's not worth your time.
So then you don't actually "get it". It is a show structured to end in engagement. Period.
@@taraconverse7696 If you're in a relationship that's going super well, would you leave the guy solely for not proposing at a certain time? If they really want the relationship to work, what's stopping them from looking past the show and going at their own pace when it's over?
@@speedude0164 They're not just in a relationship. They're on a show that is structured to end in enagagement. Also, what's stopping Rachel from pursuing Aven any further is the fact that she likes Tino more.
@@taraconverse7696 That I agree on. It's the show's tradition so if the guys choose to sign up for it a lot of the responsibility falls on them. My point is that getting rid of a man for the sole purpose of him not proposing at a certain time shows that they care more about the image of a perfect Bachelorette ending then about the actual relationship, which if you're in it for more than just the fame as they all say, is not good.
Rachel didn’t like Zach as much as the other two men.. it’s as easy as that. If she did, she wouldn’t have switched up on him behind the cameras.
Aven.. poor thing.. really liked Rachel but she needed two proposals and he wasn’t going to produce a ring so he was clearly out. Even tho she was going to say no to Aven anyways.
Erich played his “let’s date” card because he was the last guy standing.
Tino…. Well we will see it crash and burn next week.
Gosh I love Bachelor Fantake ❤️.
The "This is a load of Barnacles" clip took me out hahahahaha
Did they sign a contract or something that none of Zach or Rachel can talk about what happened in the room!? I want details so bad 😂😂 Justice for Zach!!
Tbh, I really feel bad for Rachel like everyone is commenting mean stuff to her. I know she did poor decisions, so did we at one point in our lives. Everyone is praising Gabby and degrading Rachel. I love them both and I hope the best for them
Well, she really needed to grow a pair and break up with these guys because of HER feelings instead of trying to manipulate every situation and make it seem like THEY did something wrong. It's just childish to try to play the victim in every breakup.
Yup she literally cried her way out of every situation even though she was in the wrong. Like...EVERY...TIME
I think Rachel was too emotionally immature to go through this.
I've waiting for your video!!! Yay 😊 Rachel is really getting on my nerves 😫 ughh
I'm glad Zach didn't let her have the satisfaction of sending him home he took control of his own narrative you gotta respect that.
Yep, he's going right into Bachelor. I'm here for it. People says he's annoying, I can definitely see him being the next Bachelor.
I hope he keeps it up if he’s the Bachelor. He seems very level-headed and genuinely ready for love, with a good eye for people and a healthy way of communicating.
If he can do all that on the Bachelor, it might be the most refreshing season in a while. A nice break from the clueless guys who are like “I’ve never been in love, but I’m gonna get engaged by the end of this, that’s a good idea!” or who act like they’re in a harem anime.
I don't admire it.
Zach trying to beat Rachel to the punch wasn't courageous or bold: it's a rose ceremony for The Bachelorette, it's part of your "job" as a contestant to participate (and not make your fellow contestants have to wait even longer unnecessarily).
If it was over for him anyway, what would it hurt to go through the regular order? No, he didn't have to - but the only reason to do otherwise is to flatter his own ego.
Yesss I was so happy!
Your recaps are always epic
Loving the slow zoom-ins on the zoomed in boxes lol
I'm going to put on my jersey for the Rachel defense squad, here. I think she made a lot mistakes, absolutely got caught up in the idea she had to get engaged, and wasn't fair to Aven in particular. I also think (a) that she knows that, (b) she's miserable about all of this, and (c) that she was an environment that put an enormous amount of pressure on her to be a "good bachelorette" and get engaged, even as the show overall reduced time with these guys and has just generally lean into horror during the last few episodes of each season. I just hope folks can have some compassion for her and stop the pile-on. And also...of the past five season, four have devolved into a horror show at some point. To me, this says the issue is production more than the lead.
Thank you! I don’t understand why everyone thinks she’s so evil. Isn’t it normal on this show to feel hurt and blindsided that their top picks don’t want to get engaged? If Aven was so sure about a future with her why wouldn’t he just suck it up and propose for the sake of the show? Gabby is upset by Erich so why is it wrong that Rachel is upset with Aven? I just don’t understand why everyone is so mad!
I mean I don't think she's evil or a bad person. I also think in several instances like Clayton she was set up for failure. I don't think she's unworthy of love. I also think she was done dirty by Tino and so many other guys this season.
But at the same time, she herself contributed to some of the reduced time by cancelling dates. She choose to continue the season. She was cold to a lot of the guys in the same way she criticized Clayton for. She also caused a lot of drama and didn't take responsibility for that. She was also cruel to a lot of them in the same way she and Gabby fairly criticized Clayton for. That includes Zach and Tyler and Ethan. And then we get into what happened with Aven and the again blatant double standard that she set when he was very clearly the one she should have picked.
I again do not hate Rachel. I also get that she's under a lot of pressure. But that's all the more reason why she should have left at the beginning and gotten away from that place.
I agree. I think it’s very telling that the first half of this season had so much footage of her so worked up about being a “good Bachelorette” and has now done a full 180 into Stepford Wife smiling and spouting Bachelor/ette cliches about “clarity.”
I don’t think it’s her fault, but she’s clearly gotten to wrapped up in the idea that she’s the “lead” of the show, this is her “job”, and the “story” has to play out a certain way (I.e. an engagement) or else she has failed at her job.
The actual connection with someone and finding a serious love doesn’t even factor into the equation if you think about it like that, and she’s surrounded by people who should be helping and guiding her who don’t care about building a lasting relationship, but making a good story for TV.
gabbys screentime was like 1/4 of rachels bruh
Rachels dad is such a softie. I feel bad for Rachel but she has poor judgment... Aven and Zach were far better choices than Tino. Granted Tino might not be a carbon copy of his family but I'm seeing red flags all over.
I think if you're really so caught up on the engagement part that your willing to let someone go that you "love" you don't truly love them, you wouldn't let them go if you did not really.
facts
Exactly!!!!
Yeah, how dare they be so "caught up on the engagment" like they're cast on a show structured to end in engagment. The horror.
@@taraconverse7696 Then the structure needs to change. It's supposed to be about finding love. They are sabotaging their own journeys and vilifying the guys for wanting more time with them outside the show before getting engaged. The Australian version doesn't usually end in an engagement and has more successful relationships.
@@debbiecharles7912 but this ain’t Australia. The show is built on heterosexual Christian conservative norms. I don’t see it changing so we might as well just buckle up for the ride.
The only thing Rachel wants is ring and the feeling of being wanted. She doesn’t care from whom
ugh, yes, almost as if she's on a show structured to end in engagement. The horror.
@@taraconverse7696 You did not understand their comment at all
@@Ploopbloopz maybe. My understanding of the comment was that in going on the show, Rachel’s only goal was to get a ring (get engaged) and feel wanted regardless of whom she’s getting those things from.
It made me so uncomfortable to watch Rachel at the end there. I kept wondering why they didn't pan away from her or something? They just kept zooming in on her unhappy, unhappy face...
I wonder how many times Jesse Palmer had to practice in the mirror saying that iconic line 'most dramatic season ever"🫠
Run, Aven, run! She is too young and immature. She thinks you're yelling?! If she loved you, she would willing to wait. She cries when she could use her big girl words. If you were my friend, I would encourage you to take the time you need!
She definitely needs to grow up. Not everything is going to be 100 percent perfect. She always throw the baby out with the bathwater, and it pretty annoying.
Holy heck they are miiiiiiiiiiiilking this one
The mean girls comment actually made me LOL.
I liked Rachel in the beginning but she really started to piss me off towards the end of the season. Aven was being realistic and mature, I felt he really loved her and wanted a future with her but his concerns were 100% valid. Reality T.V is far from reality and he understands that once the show is over the dynamic completely changes, you need to get to know each other without the cameras, traveling, glitz and glamor, especially when it comes to marriage. All she wanted was a ring and a title and if that’s all she wanted Aven dodged a bullet honestly. I almost felt like she just picked Tino because that was her last option, it’s sad but lots of these of reality stars don’t understand what it means to have a sustainable and healthy relationship behind closed doors. They’re too lost in fantasy land. I would rather walk away as boyfriend and girlfriend knowing someone genuinely loves me and wants a future with me and is working towards the goal of marriage over a last resort just because they’re willing to give me a ring 🤷🏽♀️ that’s just me tho
Are we just Bored To Death? that was the most predictable finale!
And they basically have shown us play by play of what is to come next week.
Rachel overly tried to micromanage her guys. Aven voiced real concerns while Tino just was placating Rachel to win her over! Until… he no longer wanted her (or got tired of her once the game was over) is my guess.
I do feel that Rachel doesn’t know what is good for her, she basically likes bad boys. Maybe it’s her age or lack of maturity to see the whole relationship picture.
You can’t boss people around, and act like a deserving Queen. You need to build the castle together and become Queen and King together.
Gabby looks so happy, Rachel on the other hand... I don't know. It seems like she has a lot of regrets
Concerning the Bachelorettes and wanting an engagement at the end: All the Bachelorettes are and have been beautiful. They can get dates and guys to date them on their own without going on the show.
In the past beginning with Trista the first Bachelorette they have said they are tired of the players and that dating scene. They don't want to leave with a boyfriend to date. They want to leave with someone to marry.
This has been the Bachelorette's perspective which of course is not always the same perspective as that of the Bachelors.
on one hand the men are being reasonable… on the other hand, it’s a tv show, and i feel like they should just “get engaged” and then date for awhile like previous people have done it. I mean, if they’re going to be this reasonable, maybe don’t go on the bachelorette where it’s the expectation to propose at the end. It’s fine if you think proposing after so little time is crazy… it IS crazy. But you’re signing up for this so just do the engagement which we all know doesn’t mean ur getting married right away, it’s like a fake engagement just to give us a nice ending.
That said, i would never break up with Aven lol
How could you get engaged to someone without really knowing the person?... after only a couple of dates that were constantly under supervision of a whole film/production crew?
The only real candid men are the ones that honestly say, that they like the woman but can't make such a important decision like an engagement yet!! Everything else is for 90 percent of the candidates nothing nore than a lie!
With the BN break up rate an engagement is only some sort of commitment. If you're not ready to give your lead that, it only means you want out and know it will not last long term
Exactly how I feel about the whole pressured engagement thing!
I feel so, so bad for Rachel.
Everybody online has been like "Aven's being so sensible, of course you wouldn't be ready for an engagement after so little time! Rachel's being crazy wanting an engagement!" as though we weren't watching THE BACHELORETTE. It's the central premise -- the entire *ethos* of the franchise. Do I think it's a good premise? LOL NO. But it's the game. This is the game show, and the way you win the game show is you get "engaged". THEN you date in the real world, after reaping the copious rewards of winning said game show. If you don't want to play that game, whyyyy would you be in the arena??
All due respect to Aven (who does seem lovely!), and also Johnny and Jason and Erich, frankly, but... If you only want to get engaged once, getting down on one knee is something sacred to you and you can't imagine spending it in this environment after this little time, WHY ARE YOU ON THIS SHOW? There are a zillion dating shows these days, a zillion ways to become influencers, why here? Why this show?
And why are the producers throwing their lead under the bus and making her look crazy/villainous for simply upholding the rules *they set*?
It reeks of misogyny to me.
That doesn't mean I agree with every choice Rachel's made, at all. But none of this Bachelor Nation response and producing sits right with me.
Agreed
This!!!! Literally what I’m saying they’re all going on there to become famous and pretending to not know the show is all about getting engaged!! If I were a lead I would be frustrated too because why did you come on here , accept EVERY FREAKING ROSE for 6 weeks just to waste my time at the end saying you’re not ready to be engaged. Honestly Aven is full of crap with his excuse. And so is Jason and Johnny smh they just want fame
no bc rachel has been done so dirty by this season i feel so bad for her
Haven’t there been seasons where they don’t get engaged, but rather agree to continue dating instead, and I believe there have been some success stories that way? Why rush into an engagement that should ideally only happen once, and then just break up weeks later because you realized living in the real world with the other person just isn’t it?
this is the best bachelorette take i’ve ever read