Shogun (2024) Episode 6 Review
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- Опубліковано 25 бер 2024
- Episode 6 of Shogun, titled "Ladies of the Willow World" sees a new revelation about the Lady Ochiba and the aftermath of the disastrous earthquake which shook Anjiro.
My review of episodes 1 and 2: • Shogun (2024) Episodes...
My review of episode 3: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
My review of Episode 4: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
My review of Episode 5: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
Check out my review of the 1980 Adaptation and my initial thoughts of the original book it is all based off of!
Review of the 1980 Adaptation: • Shogun (1980) | Samura...
My thoughts on the book: • I Finally Read Shogun ...
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At 9:50 I think I goofed regarding who he does end up with. As others pointed out, in the book it was actually Kiku. Sorry for the confusion!
EDIT: The book is over 1000 pages long (50+ hours in the audiobook) and some things get mixed up in my head. There is a part later between John and Mariko that does connect back to the night with Kiku which is why I got the nights confused.
Ha! You just described the cumulative results of my high school studies eons ago…
Thats what I was looking for. I couldn't remember if Ruri aka Ochiba and Mariko were friends in the book.
I don't like the fact that they were friends for two major reasons. 1. It's easy and cheap. We have seen two best friends becoming rivals by power, honor, and tradition in a lot of stories so it's easy
2. By making them sisters they can't dig deeper into the plans in the past of having Ochiba marrying Toranaga. Wherein the book it's was discussed at length about how the realm would have been better had they liked each other. This current story has eliminated that path.
The shows biggest failure is that it's just way too short per episode. You can't care enough about the characters become there was not enough time to develop the characters. That's a shame. So many discussions and relationships are skipped over such that if you have the deeper history by reading the book and watching the 80's series you find the show disappointing because it's hard to care about these particular characters because they haven't portrayed the relationships in which we are forced to believe.
However it you haven't read the book then this story as is; is a great show with few fumbles.
This adaption definitely has the execution but not the spirit of the original Shogun story from the book
I agree with your points on the relationships with the characters... it just feels like they do not have enough time. I honestly wish this was a slower burn to take that time to develop these relationships. I don't know why this series wasn't 12 episodes for example... it feels like a artificial constraint to match it to it's predecessor.
Looks like Toronaga already sees the connection between Mariko and Anjin and made Anjin go see Kiku in such a public way that it diffuses suspicion against them.
I thought it was deeper as Toranga was looking to trap Hiroto Kanai,
whose father asks for him to find the spy in Kanai's village. Hiroto is pushing on Toranga's son into rash actions. Using Hiroti's desire for Kiku to lead him into rash action. Toranga is teaching his son to look at the bigger picture and to find ways round a situation. Of course, I could be wrong.
@@philipebbrell2793 why are you using his real name instead of Omi, lmao confusing
@@nectarpeach2853 Yes, I was looking it up quickly. Sorry for the confusion
What connection? John and Mariko doesn't have any in the series. He acts like he doesn't want to be there and she acts like she doesn't care about anybody, not even her son. There's nothing between them except that in the script it's written that they sleep together that night.
With all the talk about their every move being watched in the Brothel, I assumed this was kind of a Loyalty Test as well trying to get the two apart.
Toranaga cant have a valuable asset like Blackthorne getting mixed up with a Noble wife of one of his top retainers- so he sends them both to see if they really have something going on depending on their reactions,
as well as humiliating both of them by basically telling Mariko to watch the man he loves sleep with another women right in front of her-which would definitly affect their relationship negatively
Ieyasu: “See how loyal I am? I have never ever ever wanted to become a shogun.”
Also Ieyasu: *Tokugawa shogunate*
Kind of like George Washington showing up at the Continental Congress in uniform saying, "I do not want to be the general!"
@@wellsbengston4132 fucking liars and thieves is what humanity has always been and always " come to"
See, I don't get why people leave comments like this, someone explain it to me?
@@user-nz6dx2fj6h Spoiler warning...
Toranaga is based on the real-life Ieyasu. He's saying he doesn't want to be Shogun, but that's exactly what he became.
Fumi Nikaido as Ladi Ochiba really stood out in this episode and I hope she's able to parlay this role into some leading roles in American movies/TV afterwards!
That closeup at the end of the episode, wow, I certainly wouldn’t want to be her opponent!
You're assuming that she speaks English and speaks it well enough to acc in an English language production. You're also assuming that she has any interest in pursuing a career in acting in the US, it's not like Japan doesn't have its own thriving film and TV industry and the US is the only place for actors to go if they want to "make it big".
I don't get why they made a non-existent connection between Ochiba and Mariko, for what good reason?
Chacha: “You see how evil I am? I’m so evil right now.”
Ieyasu at Osaka, 1615: “Haha. Anyway, I start blasting.”
HAHA
The son of Toranaga in the show: Dad, you never lost a battle!
Takeda Shingen at Mikatagahara, 1573: Anyway, here I send my cavalry.
I liked the way that the show edged on to real Japanese culture, such as hidden meanings in things said were put across. I hope you all enjoy the interview.
Very kind of you to let Shogunate upload the interview that YOU held with Frederik
Thank you!! 💙💙💙
I want to see more of Fuji
This wasn't filmed in Japan, was it?
@@allthatishereThe comment refers to the character Fuji, consort of Blackthorn, not Mount Fuji.
shes cute
@@Bayartsengel Ohh, my bad
@@mnstark3342 well she is cute but her acting is so damn good
One of the things I loved about the books and you can see glimpses of it here, Toranaga is always vying for more time. He knows Crimson Sky is a doomed plan. The more time he can create the more that Ishido and his cabal is going to tear itself apart. It’s even more amazing because it’s not that far off of historical facts.
Actually, it's very far from what Ieyasu did. After one of the regents dies, he went to battle after securing his back with the help of Date Masamune.
Yeah, surely he already has his alliances ready by that point, but he was more straight forward.
Toranaga is much weaker than Ieyasu was. If Ishida wasn't moving his troops to Sekigahara, Ieyasu troops combined with the ones of his son would have won the battle anyway.
Another difference between the characters is that Ieyasu is a better military leader and tactician, also a better manager of a country. Under Tokugawa shogunate, peace was held in Japan for at least 250 years.
Toranaga is more sneaky, his fight is held behind the scenes, with schemes and half truths, to make the others fight each other.
I have to agree with your issues with Mariko and Blackthorne. Mariko in the book is a character with a foot in two worlds/with two masters, she has her Christian beliefs and she has her Japanese culture, with loyalty to her lord taking presidence over the former, I don't think that this is really present in this adaptation. For instance, the showrunners decided to have Mariko kill at least one samurai in defense of Toranaga when they were being attacked by the Christian lord. Mariko of the book, whilst believing it was the right thing to do, would have been at least a little troubled by this as it went against her Christian beliefs, but it is just glossed over as nothing. Also, Blackthorne in the book is whip-smart with moments of stupidity/arrogance, in this adaptation Blackthorne is pretty gormless and inept with moments of brilliance, don't see how Mariko is attracted to him at all.
It’s almost like this isn’t a book and it’s a tv show they weren’t going to have it be a 1 to 1 recreation of the book no tv show or movie ever is
@@shuipsezairi6527Can you at least put some effort into your argument? OP has detailed some (of many) narrative failings in the show, and you are just lazily replying, "It's different bro". Can you not comprehend the meaning of the word, "Comparison"?
You can compare any two pieces of media, least of all two adaptations of the same story. It seems that you cannot provide an argument as to how the changes made by the show are better, but are desperate to like this show because it is popular/critically acclaimed. I hope you grow out of this insecurity & start using your brain in whatever limited capacity, though I doubt it.
@shuipsezairi6527 I pretty much dismiss any and all criticism that's framed around the differences between this and the source material/previous adaptation. If you're not judging it on its own merits, you're just projecting your expectations that are based on previous works of art. This is why I won't read the book until after the show ends. This is glorious television, but the books are usually better in a lot of ways. It's an entirely different storytelling medium.
@@kirathekillernote2173 a lot of people never read the book. they could care less how it’s written in the book or what changed. just enjoy the show on its own I can tell you are one of those people that would complain if a blade of grass that is in the background is a wrong shade of green you like to complain and come of as some type of intellectual person but you’re not
@@davidstansbury9309 i have not read the book nor know any japanese history ala whatever tropey bullshit nor played any of these stupid ass pop culture games ala those bullshit, but only ep 4 is anywhere close to brilliance .
I was not a big fan of this episode. It felt like Ishido, who was fairly dynamic so far in the series, suddenly lost his path and seemingly needed Ochiba to push him towards something that he has been doing since the first episode of the show (impeaching Torunaga). I get they want to build her up, but it felt like they sacrificed the villain we already had to create a "true power behind the throne" narrative. Also the open murder of one of the people on the council with only the flimsy cover of "bandits" seems odd when the entire show so far has been about the painstaking process the council has to go through to kill a major lord. I hope there is some major fallout from killing Sugiyama, but there was no indication of it this episode.
They turned Ishido into a simp for Ochiba. Can’t say it’s not historically accurate though. Mitsunari was a simp for Chacha big time to the point that there’s a rumor that he’s Hideyori’s true father.
ishido is just a fanboy of the late takio
I feel that was necessary though, as the show emphasized that Ishido was just a bureaucrat. He needed a little push, but hopefully he remains a dynamic character going forward and not just a pawn of Ochiba.
@@nont18411I think the timing and means is a little different but the result is the same.
She is the ultimate authority at the first siege of Osaka Castle. Which was kind of the problem.
Yes, weakest Episode so far
I'm definitely in the minority in that while i still like the show overall, these last 2 episodes have me really questioning whether i will continue to like this adaptation at the end. The relationship buulding is really bad so far, like you point out so much of it seems forced and we have little to no reason to like any of the principal characters. I wouldnt single our Shogun alone for this as i feel this is a general criticism of modern screenwriting, they just don't understand how to portray relationships and so character building never pays off.
the maestros died. tolkien lived it and kinda predicted(fortold, for those who are literate...) it...
The show feels like it needed 15 eps - they are going pretty damn fast and not developing things enough (like the friendship between Toranaga and Blackthorn)
They in didn't even remotely imply that Blackthorn spends the night with Mariko again - especially when she is waiting for him outside the next day....
I think they are just ignoring the elephant in the room and shoving through. This needed a few more episodes to develop all of the complex characters and their interrelations. It feels rushed when it needs to be slowed down and they dwell on things that don't really have anything to do with the ultimate goal of the story. I'm a little disappointed. It kind of feels like they are trying to build this up with tension and in fighting and I'm afraid it's going to end with a fizzling pop. The other problem I see is that in the original TV version there were story lines that drew you in and made characters relatable. Most of the characters seem to be very rigid and not relatable. Another problem is they are not helping the viewer understand the way Japanese culture and society. Which was kind of what the character of Mariko did while teaching Blackthorn the language, customs and integrating him into Japanese society.
Toranaga and Blackthorn were never friends. The Englishman was always a weapon for Toranaga, to be unleashed on whichever target the future shogun decides.
@@praktika1082Toranaga in his final words said Blackthorn was his friend, that he needed just one friend… it’s written there in his monologue
@@antoniakilby3763 I find it annoying that Blackthorn still barely speaks any Japanese at this point. He seems to speak less Japanese in the past 2 episodes than in the first 4. While he wasn't exactly fluent at this point in the book he was able to speak more than just a few individual words. They should have had Cosmo more lines in Japanese and just have him learn them phonetically, not that hard with Japanese, and not correct his accent much to keep it more authentic.
Oh! I forgot, did you watched "Blue Eye Samurai"?
I think it deserves a video when you finish Shogun.
This was much better from the previous episode. An improvement of story and character development for Mariko and Ochiba. The flash back was very good for explaining the history of both of their fathers and the history of Oda's persecution of Buddhist monks. The moment I saw the landslide i knew that Toragana's army got caught but didn't see it that well previously. I love the Noh scene as it gives us the political talk each lord has and the spite they have for Ochiba. Typical political talk. At the Willows when Mariko speaks for Kiku I enjoy the transaction when she is speaking directly to Blackthorn from Kiku. I also agree with the relationship with Toragana and Blackthorne as they don't feel like friends but just accomplices trying to use each other for their own agendas. I feel like he is setting John to fail or be overwhelmed with the stress of being a leader or trying to rat out the least loyal samurais in his group by promoting and gifting him too much. I wish to see more of Toragana and how he handles the situations and how he reacts and thinks on the spot. My brother is also interested in the sires and he is mixed with them as he would like to know more of the background of each character and having a flashback with the eerie chant really gives in the creep vide like the Noh theater. Overall I love the political turmoil that is slowly building up. Even though Jousen death was the fire that ignited the fuse it was not the catalyst for the explosion like Lady Ochiba adding and setting the trial. I hope to seen more and give more flashbacks that give each character their background.
Ochiba isn't Yodo Dono. In the story she's just the most wanted girl in the kingdom. Not a ruler or something. She's not an important character. Also, Akechi Jinsai didn't attack Kuroda because of some Buddhist monks. He's not Mitsuhide, as Mariko isn't Hosokawa Gracia or Toranaga isn't Tokugawa Ieyasu.
The characters in the series are fictional, they're only inspired by the real persons, but they aren't the same, with the same traits and stuff.
Ochiba-no-Kata's actress also portrayed as Cha-cha/Yodo-dono in the Taiga drama "Gunshi Kanbei"
in the books it is mentioned that Mrs. Ochiba has a brief relationship with a peasant during a hunting party and that immediately after, she is found lying in the grass by Toranaga and for this reason she hates Toranaga because he suspects that the heir's son does not it's Taiko's! In the books, there is no mention of any friendship between Mariko and Ochiba, also in the books, Ito is presented as a very weak man, without character, who will vote with Ishido all the time! I'm still saying that I don't like how Anjin-san's character is developed, his relationship with Toranaga and his relationship with Mariko! And yes, in the books Anjin-san always enjoys Toranaga's favors and accepts them, he doesn't even think about wanting to leave Japan! The only moment when he thinks that his life in Japan is meaningless is the one immediately after the death of Mariko and the burning of the Erasmus ship! But when he receives a new goal from Toranaga to build new battleships, Anjin-san wants to stay in Japan! I see that in the film there is no mention of the 200 samurai that Anjin gets the right to equip and train on his fiefdom and who will swear loyalty to him! I still say that this show is rated 6.5-7, regardless of how many insults I will receive from those who say that this show is rated 9-10! And of course, your review is a 10! Thank you!
At this point of the story, Blackthorne was already speaking some japanese, was feeling and acting like a samurai. But in the show he’s nothing like that, he only wants to leave Japan. The look on his face when Toranaga is giving him a pair of swords is like he doesn’t know what’s going on. And after we saw how hard was for the convoy , when Toranaga escaped from Osaka , to go past checkpoints , to see that Hiro Matsu just cut a samurai and fled on horse it seems stupid. Don’t think I’ll watch further. They messed up a very well written story.
@@Tony_R_83 yes, in books Anjin-san evolves a lot, learns to become Japanese, samurai and hatamoto! He has that dictionary that he reads every day to improve his Japanese, he always asks questions to learn as much as possible about Japan! He turns very much into a samurai! And also in the books there is a character who is almost ignored in the movie: Omi-san! And this evolves a lot in the books! He proves his intelligence in many moments, Toranaga understanding that Omi-san is very intelligent and in the end he becomes senior over Yabu-san's province after he commits seppuku because he is proven a traitor during the ninja attack! Omi-san is also the one who proves Yabu-san's betrayal in the books and thus shows his loyalty to Toranaga! And yes, it's normal for Toranaga to say that he doesn't want to become Shogun because that automatically means betrayal of Taiko's heir son, moreover all Toranaga's men were loyal to the heir son so Toranaga will say until the end that he he doesn't want to be Shogun and he will support the heir son! Only at the end of the book does he admit that he planned to become Shogun for a very long time and admits that it would not have been possible without the sacrifice of Mariko san and without the appearance of the barbarian from the east! And there is another important thing in the books: Toranaga knows that maybe the only weak point of Mrs. Ochiba is her sister who is married to his heir's son, so Toranaga understands that maybe this way he will manage to manipulate Ochiba! Toranaga is a master puppeteer, he always weaves hidden plans, but we don't really see that in the books! Too bad they focused a lot on showing us Japanese culture and ignored a large part of the story! I will watch until the end, whatever that end is! The book deserves a trilogy similar to Lord of the Rings!
@@alinvoica937 The show runners wanted to combine history with fiction. If the producers wanted to show the Sengoku period, they should have done that. Not try to picture a fictional character, Toranaga, as the real one, Ieyasu. They are very different persons. I wanted to watch a series made by the book, no matter how different the characters or the customs are from the real daimyo or samurai.
@@Tony_R_83 correct! no matter how attentive you are to the details, you still have to deliver a good story! here they failed!
@@Tony_R_83 and one more thing: am I the only one who makes it dark in the house so I can see the movie as clearly as possible?😅😅
Excited for the interview video! Its always super interesting to see 1. How much effort was put into place to ensure authenticity and 2. Why they decided to deviate from authenticity and why. I think it says a lot about modern cultural expectations, stereotypes, and practical constraints on filmmaking.
As someone who is Japanese, this show is a shining star
I think they should run a disclaimer at the beginning of each episode that it is complete fiction. The way they have an air of authenticity around the show coupled with obvious real characters who are famous in Japanese history could make many confuse this as somewhat true. The way they portray Buntaro (Hosokawa Tadaoki) in particular is outrageous.
@@joeyartk can you explain what they did that was outrageous with Buntaro? I want to know.
@@RollingDodge Just Google Hosokawa Tadaoki. Thats who his character is supposed to represent.
lmfao went to the comments and then see your stuff and watched that, he sounds like a crunk scruffy grandpa, definitely a bit not like the look
But as a westerner, who it was written by and for, it's a rock in an asteroid field!
Love Ochiba's chilling prescense.
Loved this episode a lot more than 5. I just wish we saw twice as much Toranaga and half as much Blackthorne.
Ochiba wants to claw the eyes out of fate?
Why do you lot leave stupid comments like this?
Honestly, now that we are over half way throw with the show, I don't know the Shogun from 2024 or 80s version is better. Because, both are great adaptations of the Book. How ever the story and the paising is totaly differenty fokused.
But I must say, the better Blackthorn is clearly Richard Chamberlain.
Disagree. Not knocking Chamberlain as an actor but I dont like how Blackthorne is portrayed in the old version
Because in 1980 version, the longer airtime let Blackthorne to show more warmth and compassion than this version. The pacing of this version is too fast. There’s not much room for compassion, only for political scheming.
The prime example was the scene in ‘80 about when Blackthorne consoling Lady Fuji after she ordered the execution of Uejirou. He apologized to her, saying that it’s not her fault. It’s his own fault for saying the god-cursed joke and he had to take responsibility for his own words. There is no such thing in the new version. Blackthorne just got mad at Fuji then not mad after seeing her got injured by the earthquake, but not apologizing to her.
Personally, due to my lack of knowledge of the book, I thought the direction this episode going is rather... lost. I'm not sure what truly the focused of the episode as there's too much to tell in an episode. However, I'm sure this episode focused on building anticipation and telling backstory on why this and that happened... except the Kiku and Blackthorne part, but if the book include it, who am I to judge. I'd say this is still much better than ep 5.
Thank you for that.... I liked it but do have trouble following the interactions. Your review was a big help
I don't care for the man who plays John Blackthorne is just not right for the part. Plus they forget his contacts in some scenes. Not a huge deal. But I notice brown eyes from Blue
I can't decide if its flat acting or just bad dialogue writing (which would not be his fault) that stifles him. But you're right, all his scenes except when he yells at the Spaniard are my least favorite.
Yeah Mariko and John are the worst parts for me in the show. Luckily the shows surrounding cast is carrying it.
Funjy i love the blackthorne . The previous blackthorne from the old series felt cribge to me
@@dhimankalita1690 Cringe how? The "old" Blackthorn is a well spoken man who treats everyone on an eye level without talking down on them or being overly submissive. He is a man, who expects to be treated as such and is treating others as such.
The new Blackthorn doesn't look English, always looks like he is about to cry, wanders around confused and aimless in every new situation. I don't buy that he's a sailor. I don't buy that he's a soldier in service of his majesty or ever was. I don't buy that he's English at all and I don't even buy that he's a man.
Having seen the previous Shogun, I do prefer Chamberlain as Blackthorne while this Toranaga and Mariko are much better than the previous
The actress playing Ochiba managed to make her more terrifying that all the samurais on the show put together, while keeping a sweet voice and manners.
❤BY FAR.....THE BEST 👌 EPISODE OF THE SERIES...No complaints here, just appreciation!!!
I would have liked to know what the significance of the focus on the different ways of drinking and putting down the cup in the negotiation scene was ?
5:20 Because she had played this role of Yodo Dono before in a taiga drama and she won the Best Young Actress award in 2011. I mean, just look at her performance in the romcom show that just ended yesterday “Eye Love You” and the vibe is totally different from this. She got range.
I know that I'm being influenced by my "dislike" of the actress Fumi Nikaido (I also watched Tezuka's Barbara" last night and this didn't help), but even so I didn't liked this episode very much.
Besides some character developments, or lack of developments in Fuji's case, this political drama seems a bit boring at times. The personal bits are interesting, like you pointed about Ochibaba and Mariko, but you have a bunch of men in one city grumbling, another bunch of men in another city grumbling and this seems like all they do, grumble. Feels like there's no "movement". Torunaga has a big army in the field and we don't see this army, we don't seem people doing work. John as promoted again but we see him doing nothing. All I seem is all these characters wandering here and there grumbling. A bit disappointing.
There are a feel good moments, that scene with the negotiation of Kiku's price and the details with the tea bowls, and them the visual trick to "fuse" Kiku's and Mariko's images was nice too see, but being that... It's just people grumbling and dark.
By the way, John grumbled a lot about not wanting to work and going home, but he didn't even tried to refuse Torunaga's "present". I had two expectations, one that he would actually "pillow" with Mariko, two that he would "pillow" with Kiku and Mariko would be really there watching everything like Torunaga ordered and these two options would be interesting.
But the scenes went with the uninteresting alternative (but I get the meaning of "feeling the absence").
Oh well, it's the mid series crises, I hope it improves.
Those moments you describe are really the painting of the society and how it moves (or not), they’re pave is definitely is different from the western
While I thought Mariko and Blackthorne definitely wanted another night together, I couldn't see that any hint that she went with them to the private room. Kiku clearly offers it, but Mariko also pretty clearly turned it down in my view. The hand touch from Blackthorne seemed to say, I don't want this, I want you, which adeed to the pain of the moment for Mariko. Anna Sawai is doing very fine work and is the one who deserves any award noms that come her way
When I watched the episode today I thought Blackthorn went into the private room with the courtesan and something I've often wondered is do the Japanese treat east and west on their islands the way the globe is north and south? I just remember hearing about the west vs east theme describing the armies that fought at Sekigahara and I always saw Japan as more north and south since its tall and skinny.
Great channel. Had a question: it's been a long time since I read the book or re-watched the 1980 ed but Ochiba being the central nemesis to Toranaga as she clearly is becoming in the 2024 ed is a major change in the story right? I don't remember Ochiba being that central a figure in the original show or book and I don't remember her being the one pulling the strings on the Council once Toranaga resigns but I could be wrong. Please clarify.
Yes it's a big change! But we will have to wait and see how much they actually focus on it.
Aside from the "historical accuracy", it's just so fookin' drab, dark, desaturated and dull to look at. The "Dark Ages" were never dark in Europe or Japan. On the contrary, it was quite vibrant and colorful, that's part of what made the original TV mini-series so memorable. This one is so dark, you can see any of the details and they're only using dark blue and yellows, nothing else. It's boring beyond belief.
This is my biggest problem with the series. They spent so much time and effort on colorful costumes and settings and then just dark blue filtered the whole show.
Historical films/series from Japan are usually very colorful so that this isn't is further irritating.
@@DionysianLovecraftian
I wonder if the title is meant to refer not just to Kiku but Ochiba and Mariko as well. The episode unusually starts with a flashback on their shared history. Then we learn that both were used by men for certain goals - to make an heir / continue a struggle. So like Kiku, both women have to surrender themselves to the will of others at first.
After Shogun, please do a review of Blue Eye Samurai.
It seems to be revenge for both ladies turning allies against one another i love it
I loved the noh play. Probably my favorite part of the episode
I'm later to watching this review than the previous ones, but thank you as always for these invaluable reviews!
It sounds like this episode was better than the previous and maybe hopefully the series will be on an upward trend! I still have my reservations, fears, and concerns regarding it and unfortunately none of those have been dispelled... but hopefully by the end they will be.
I'm not entirely sure that I'll watch the interview as if yet, primarily because I'm disappointed in the historical inaccuracies that have occurred and yet could have easily have been avoided... though thankfully as far as I am personally aware those inaccuracies are relatively few and far between, though they irk me a great deal more than I like to admit because of how much they touted the historical accuracy of this venture. The primary examples coming to mind being the historically inaccurate firearms that are from centuries in the future, cultural stuff when it comes to the Japanese (most likely being changed to be more palatable for "modern audiences", and cultural stuff when it comes to Blackthorn (specifically that time a boy was offered to him).
I haven't decided to watch or support this series yet and will reserve my decision till after it finishes airing, but you're reviews have remained and continue to be invaluable in helping me to make my decision! Thank you as always Shogunate!
I feel the same that there needs to be more to Toranaga and Blackthorne's relationship like in the Book and the original miniseries. In the original you could see Blackthorne slowly settling into becoming a samurai retainer and accepting his role as Toranaga's vassal.
I’ve been waiting! This channel has become my favorite recap channel for the series! U can tell some of the other channels are using the same AI script with different voiceover voices. It’s so weird but oh well, making this channel that much more authentic .
Keep up the great work!
I remember very well from the book there was another VERY important reason Ochiba hated Toranaga. I hesitate to mention what this was in case the show depicts it in an upcoming episode, but I was waiting through the whole of Episode 6 to see if it was mentioned.
JAMES
I know what you are referring to! It would be interesting to see that brought in!
Ochiba is one creepy power tripper.
I enjoyed the episode, especially the naginata training and background for mariko that helped develep her character a bit... i would just like to see the battle agains the minister at the end but maybe with the fiction "nobunaga" madness portraited the episode it had enough violence already.
I watched the episode yesterday and although it was interesting some somethings were confusing, watching this video I realized that I didn't know that Lady Yoda, or in this series, Ochiba was actually Kuroda/Nobunaga's daughter so was a surprise for me, it does seem that Ochiba has now become the real villain and not Ishido, killing one of the regents was a surprise also, I was surprised why she seems to hate Toranaga/Ieyasu so much when he was her own father's friend. Then I found out because of his stance against her son.
Like the Shogunate mentioned Blackthorn and Toranaga's bonding is just not happening so it's kind of weird, Blackthorn and Mariko are weird also, the scene with Blackthorn, Mariko, and Kiku was awkward, from what I saw yesterday I assumed that Blackthorn and Kiku spent the night together not Blackthorn and Mariko, the fact that later Mariko was waiting for Blackthorn and Kiku to return also made me think that.
The part with Omi and Kiku was interesting the fact Kiku stated that Blackthorn means nothing to her was interesting but after what happened and she said she would like to do it again made me question whether she lied to Omi or was just saying that to Blackthorn.
Omi and his uncle are also angry with Blackthorn and Toranaga about Toranga showing so much attention to Blackthorn and makes you wonder if they will betray Toranaga within the next 4 episodes.
Lastly, they healed up Fuji too fast meaning there was no bonding with her and Blackthorn at all. I hope this changes same with Toranaga and Blackthorn.
Can we talk about how badly Mariko is as a translator? And I don't mean her intentional changing of expressions for diplomatic reasons, I mean her very, very selective manner of translating people's intent. I can't help but feel like Mariko is contributing to Blackthorne's now permanent ignorance of Japan and the Japanese by the times she decides when to precisely translate and when she decides to make it up. She translates none of Toranaga's speeches for Blackthorne, although he is present. They've also fallen into the modern 'technique' of providing boat-loads of flashbacks only to tie it all in at the very end of an episode rather than providing these details throughout the show- which, for a mini-series, would make more sense than half an episode dedicated to an exposition dump. The further this goes on the less it clicks for me.
It was mentioned in the book that Mariko gives a condensed version of what is said when she translates--only Alvito translates word for word. The scene where Blackthorne snaps at her for not translating correctly is in the book as well (though much more lighthearted, as he tells a joke right afterwards).
They kinda excused that the reason Mariko is such a liar because she got abused by Buntaro a lot so she had to…lie to Blackthorne? Yeah, it’s kinda flimsy when saying it out loud.
if i remember right, in the book blackthorn spent the night with kiku, cause she is a gift from mariko to him, since they cant be together. they got together later on theire journey to osaka. but otherwise i agree, the show is great, it is a pice of art in its own right, and therefor diffrent from the book in many ways
Is there still more to see from the John and Mariko love story?
These videos are the best review and commentary videos on the new Shogun series full stop.
The courtesan scene was a lot spicier in the book! :D
They choose to give so much screen time to bs while leaving out so many important bits from the book. In this episode for example, the scene where they negotiate the price for the courtesan, it went on and on! It annoyed me that they make so much room for that, but forgo the huge plot point about Blackthorne having only 6 months to learn japanese, and if he fails the entire village will be killed. Which would then lead to developing the relationships between him, Omi, and Yabu. This episode was mostly filled with a whole bunch of nothing!
I personally hated the "we will kill the village if you don't learn Japanese" plot line in the book. It made absolutely no sense.
@@404DannyboyIt made sense to them as a way to motivate Blackthorn. But they could have been bluffing as well. But sense or no sense, it leads to a very important plot point which this show decided to leave out completely.
Hello shogun fans. If you, like me, are enjoying the tv series which leads you to read James Clavell’s novel (quite frankly everything he wrote is brilliant!) & would like to learn more of the pre-Tokugawa era, I highly recommend you pick up a copy of Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa.
It's extremely tiring when every single relationship is adversarial. At this point a number of deeper bonds between characters should be on display. That means whatever payoff happens in the end will be lesser, because they've already missed the mark. I think it's clear that the characterizations in this show are it's weakest aspect.
Does the emperor ever appears in the book ? It would be interesting for blackthorne to see that extra level of power and complicated politics
What is an emperor ecer?
@@dstarling61 "ever" minor spelling mistake
Toronaga is playing games with everyone even his own son for his advantage and advice. Was a Great thing.
However as much as I noticed in the first half as much I got confused about the second half of the episode. I do not understand why they had to go to the tea thing, was Toronga spying to confirm their love for eachother or was he trying to separate them in conflict. Also why would Anjin go with kiku, his personality was that he does not want other women contact other then Mariko? Or did he do it to annoy Mariko?
Many questions which I am not a fan of, this episode lowkey disappointed at the end and I might not continue
Ngl mariko feels like more of the mc then blackthorn 😂😂 shes been way more interesting than him so far , idk he's been the weakest performance character wise to me
Six episodes down, and blissfully none of the copious "thou" dialogue from the novel/original mini series.
I'm glad that this channel exists, here I can express my dissatisfaction with this show without the risk of being insulted by about 1000 people who probably haven't read a book in their entire lives! Thank you!
I read books. And here to disagree with you.
@@aairsick don't waste your time, I don't care about your opinion
I would rather see Sanada Yukimura at the 1615 Siege of Osaka. The Crimson Deamon of War.
The remake is living up to the original.
Not in any way shape or form!
@@user-nz6dx2fj6h yes it is
Yup, Chamberlain/Mifune duo was much better at portrayal of this slowly developing mutual respect of people from different cultures. This show has too many disjoined, unexplained themes and scenes. Also Blacthorne change into samurai was much better portrayed.
At least Yabu is cool in this show.
Will Mariko ever translate something properly?😉 She is beautiful!😇
I think Ochiba was a consort and not a concubine, right?
I am liking the show. I am jist tired of Blackthorne not learning the language and constantly trying to go home.
Like, i get it, but i feel something needs to happen so that his character can refocus on assimilating.
The best part about fish out of water narratives are when the character embraces their new surroundings
2:47 lady cha cha side
Missed the pole, some people I've talked to are not liking the changes and pace of this new series. Historically accurate should also pertain to the how closely it follows the book, "modernizing" it should be considered book burning. Some of the dialog is plain dumb or drones on and on, the action is often completely glossed over, and it all feels somehow slow and lacking a sense of bewilderment/horror. Many of the character changes focus on the female characters so don't worry about getting more of that. I doubt they care about the development of the other characters much especially the protagonist.
He didn't spend the night with Mariko... she left him alone.
@@stevebubbie1126He said in the video it was ambiguous. It wasn't. In the show she left.
Really getting sick and tired of Mariko's BS translations.
LADY CHACHA REAL SMOOVE!
It's tempting, but a review shouldn't be a book comparison.
For the most part I agree with your analysis of this episode. However from the book and the 1980 treatment I gathered that Blackthorn ended up with Kiku for the night, though I read the book many times it has been about 10 years since the last reading so I need to refresh my memory (have to buy a new copy, the old paperback gave up the ghost). I do completely agree with your take of the Mariko/Blackthorn relationship as being “forced”, that was exactly the word that came to mind while watching this last night. In the book and the earlier TV series their relationship was much warmer and more open between them. The filming location still puts me off a little, even though Japan has lots of trees and forests from my recollection of visiting small cities in Japan and earlier period films I do not recall so many trees in between the dwellings, it’s almost like they are camping out. Blackthorn is still showing a rather uncouth and rough personality which at first thought is understandable as a sailor and pilot, but this seems to me to be different from the book. Overall for me the series is entertaining and brings with it a more nuanced look at Japan than the 1980 series but with a more dark look, maybe because of the weather at the time of filming? Not a big deal, but I am anxious to see how they wrap this up.
I think you are right about who he ends up with that night. I might have goofed there.
I stopped watching after episode 2.
But I still watch your reviews 👍
i think Blackthorn sword given was rushed...i prefer the 1980s recognition of blackthorn becoming a samurai and given a fief.
I feel like this comment section is the only people who hate on this show like what’s the deal is it personal lol?
They hate it for many reasons. That they are fans of Clavells works and this screenplay sucks and the original series was much much better, better actors and better adaptation, so if it wasn't going to improve on that then why bother?
Too much appreciate for the book or the 80’s adaptation I think. Not because they’re bad (I wouldn’t know), but because they love those so much that they refuse to let this adaptation be what it wants to be instead of just a retelling of a story already told but in 4K this time.
@@josueroberto7356 Not really, it’s the second series, it’s just so bad, on all counts
@@user-nz6dx2fj6h You seem to be in the minority here. Now I’m aware that popular ≠ good, however I’ve also found that if something is popular, it most likely clears a minimum baseline of quality, even if this doesn’t mean it’s a masterpiece. Certainly better than “bad on all accounts.”
@@josueroberto7356 since when is being in the minority a bad thing? Heard of Newton, Darwin, Jenner and many other scientists who were disbelieved at first. Why are you using the thoughts of a bunch of illiterate fools who no longer even try to read as a positive tick for mediocrity? Someone has to point it out and as Clavell is no longer with us we don’t know if he would have liked it or not, but my money is on not!
And I said bad on all counts, not accounts!
I have super mixed feelings about the show but that mainly has to do with the writing and not with how it looks and feels. I love that they casted japenese actors and the scenery is amazing but the story feels rushed. I still don’t feel like I know much about most of the characters and I’m mainly just trying to see more about Japan and less about blackthrone and him wanting to fuck Mariko
I think it's refreshing to see an adaptation of Shogun, which strays just enough from the source material to ween itself from promoting the original white Christian savior complex that, in my opinion, plauged the novel. I remember reading Shogun and tho finding many aspects very interesting and exciting I wasn't enamored by the relationship between Mariko san and Blackthrone. There were moments I wished Bunatro san had caught them or been permitted to Kiri-sute gomen against Blackthrone for his infidelity with Mariko san. I believe the show depicts a more realistic relationship dynamics between a Daiymo of Toranaga's Minowara (Minamoto) Pedigree and his vassal. In my opinion which may be unpopular I think having Mariko san be cold and distant to Anjin san is an appropriate level of interaction between them and though it greatly deviates from the orginal I believe it does justice to extinguishing many of the archaic racist stereotypes and fetishization of Japan that the source material unfortunately dealt in and perpetuated. That being said James Clavell is a product of a another time and pre mentioned flaws aside It's nice to see a modern reinterpretation of Shogun for a modern audience. P.s it does feel rushed and many important cues have been missed and left out so it does seem the show will reach its conclusion by the season finale.
This episode was weak, kinda felt like the story progressed backwards this episode, they just kept repeating what we’ve already heard.
So it seems like all the people who read the book are being disappointed in this show, and all the newcomers are absolutely praising it.
I forgot to mention it in the last video but is Blackthorne really just free to give up his swords to Toranaga so easily? I would think swords are a deeply personal item even if John isn’t a samurai.
I think in this sense it's seen as an honorable thing to give his swords to his lord when his lord had lost his.
@@dffndjdjd just so you know I haven’t read the book, so I’m loving this show and just going along with the plot.
But I made the same mistake with Harry Potter where reading the book lessened my enjoyment of the movies because I realised what they had cut out.
I've read the book six times and I'm enjoying it. Yeah, there's parts that annoy me, but there's also scenes I've enjoyed. Nothing has to be perfect.
I’ve read the book, multiple times, and I’m loving it..!!!❤
@@PolarizedMechsAgreed
I'm really getting tired of the Anjin's inability to change or grow, and it seems like Toranaga feels the same!
The actor that plays Blackthorne is very bad. He always acts like he doesn’t even know why he’s there. It’s like he is teleported in that place and he doesn’t understand how and why he got there
Considering mariko isn't translating half of whats being said, I'd say that's to be expected
It's the script, it's so focused on their cultural differences that he's still just blundering and clueless all the time. The "brash Westerner offends polite Japanese customs" angle is way overdone and feels very forced at this point. Four episodes left and so far he has only learned how to say "thank you" and look confused.
One thing that bothers me about the story is the way Blackthorne is not even phased about the fiefdom and gifts. For a broke sailor in the time period a land claim like said fief would be a massive deal.
Fuji rules!
I want you to continue to be honest and give criticism. Because others are giving it blind praise, although I have yet to see #Metatron's review, who will also go into a deep historical dive of at least the 1st ep. I will probably eventually watch his too. I hate to be off topic but something that bugged me about Shogun is the weird releases. The first couple of eps didn't premiere on TV at all and was streaming only. Only now are the first 2 episode available through on demand. I digress, thanks for your observations, I'm more keen on noticing things. I'm curios on what you thought on Mariko and Chacha (unsure if that was her) training, why was that added in? And was hoping that you would go into that, and what sickness does that Monk have? I kinda wish they were more faithful to the source material with things like the scene of them going to the brothel, and I wish that Blackthrone was more comfortable and embraced Japan instead of trying to return home. Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong about anything. Edit some things do feel off for me and I never read or watched the previous versions of either works. As I mention before thanks to your reviews I noticed things too like, why is Toranaga-Sama in a tent instead of having a house, like you discussed in prior eps. I also think that something with Blackthrone and Mariko is off. I think that she's been the worst character, acting wise. I say that because Also Blackthrone and Toranoga don't have much chemistry. And Blackthrone and Mariko too don't seem that friendly with each other either. Also IDK why but Mariko doesn't come off like a traditional Japanese lady to me. I say that with Lady Ochiba in this ep she really shows up Mariko. But maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
I like the whole series but it's a shame they are not a little bit more careful about the etiquette. In one episode Omi turns and let's his sword saya touch the back of a female in the scene. This would never happen in real life as it was an insult.
I'm enjoying the show overall but not in love with it. The relationship between Mariko and Anjin is still so chilly and I just don't feel any chemistry between them. Yes there was that moment they had in this episode when they were with Kiku but that was such an outlier that it honestly just felt forced and unearned rather than genuine. I do think it was a well-done scene, but I just wish the rest of their interactions were done so well. Also I feel like Lady Ochiba needs to tone down the villain voice a little bit. People just don't talk like that in real life. But I did love the Noh scene. So, yeah, I enjoy the show overall, but I'm not feeling some of the characters and their relationships to each other. All in all I still feel like the 1980 adaptation is superior, despite its own shortcomings. This adaptation does do some things better than the 1980 version, but I think overall the 1980 version still wins out. But, we'll see how things go.
With the current lack of passion between Mariko and Anjin.... I feel more relaxed about Marikos future seppuku. Since Anjin will be with Fuji and their connection is interesting.
Lady Ochiba is a sight to behold. That lady is steel wrapped in a kimono. Very well acted.
Nice. Spoilers from the book in the comments. What a POS
I'm not sure why you think Anjin and Mariko spent the night together. Blackthorn went in one direction and she went in another.
The book.
@@TheShogunateYou’re wrong. Blackthorne spends the night with Kiku. Mariko spent the night with John only once in Ajiro, after they all 3 got drunk, him, Fujiko and Mariko. But it was pitch black and Mariko told him next day that he spent the night with her servant, Koi.
It's quite amazing, they did it again. Shogun is now clearly just about the women. All the men are either brutes or oafs (like Blackthorne) and all we see is either women taking control or being abused by men. Wow, the writing is so bad, even Toranaga starts shouting how he doesn't want to be Shogun and five minutes later decides to go for exactly that. Blackthorne is such a fool, showing total ignorance at every step and extremely unlikeable. Even his voice is grating and each time I hear it I just want him to shut up, especially when he gives the target of his speech that stupid incomprehending look that says "Now what?". There's not a single character left I like, so I'm done. I guess the show will make as its climax the confrontation between Mariko and Ochiba as being the real central theme of the story as this episode clearly suggests. All that's missing now is that they show that they were lovers in the past .
It looks like the creators changed a lot. I have a bad feeling about the final of this story
They seem really want to show the actual battle of Sekigahara, I mean, the “Crimson Sky” even though it’s not a meat of the story.
Disagree hard. Never have I seen a TV show that consistently outdoes the previous episodes. Im excited.
@@nont18411 I am all for it but to do this they cut a lot of the story, make some things feel forced and lacking
@@Wasthere73 this show has a lot of things I like but cuts and forces also a lot. I know the book, I know the previous version and at the moment the show is lacking. Probably we will see a grand battle in the 9-10 episode but is it worth to throw away the story? For me the show is 6 out of 10. With this version you can see the lack of J.Clavell. It makes it a one time watch
LAdy chacha and Gracia being biffs was def peak sw4/koei status LOL. Not a fan of how the sshow is so far but i am so influenced by Koei's samurai warriors lol
Strong whamenz theater.
I think you are softening your commentary to not turn off incoming audience which is mindlessly cheering the show, or just out of kindness to not spoil their fun. As I don't see how you could think this was a good episode. I don't care much about historical or book accuracy, as long as show provides a belivable and good narrative. On that front, I would say this episode is worst in the series, by a huge margin.
Biggest problem is "twist villain" crap, and behold, it is a women scorned. She is running the show behind the scene, manipulating everyone with her creepy slow enunciations. That can work, but this just isn't it. I still see no reason why someone like Ishido would even entertain her suggestions, and worst of all, stupidly force other lords, who already were against Toranaga, to vote under force.
And second (but not only) gripe is with Anjin. He is slowly becoming one of the worst protagonist, comparable only to season 8 Jon snow. He has no contribution in politics, strategy or to rest of the characters (except Mariko). His moments are either instinctive reaction(ship manuevers, saving Toranaga) or expository (like teaching canon fire). The only thing where I felt they were really developing his story was when he explained world map to Toranaga, but that plot has went nowhere and I still don't undertand why he doesn't scheme to strike an alliance between Protestants and Toranaga.
If they don't salvage all these downward spirals in coming episodes, this series will just end up as good looking series of events with a lackluster protagonist.
I actually am surprised how many people seem to dislike the episode. I'm actually serious when I say I thought it was better than the last two
@@TheShogunate I think you are looking it in a different way than rest of us, mainly through how Ochiba fits in historical context and also hindsight of oncoming events. But for me personally, who is clueless in terms of both, I see this just one of many attempts to bring a "twist villain" cliche unnecessarily.
It has all the cliches of modern writing, which makes me question the intent of show writers. And another thing which we perhaps we agree on, is how they are missing on the train with Blackthorne. He has been a fence sitter since Osaka escape, and his character development isn't anything but just sharing some proverbs with Mariko. Since you know what will happen with him, you might be less frustrated, but I don't see them doing anything other than giving him command of some random ship while Mariko solos Ishido
@@kirathekillernote2173 Ishido was reduced into a puppet of Ochiba. For a guy who’s supposed to be the main antagonist, he deserves more agency of his own.
Forget the book buddy. It is written by non japanese author😂
theres never any action its boring
It is weird that the highlight of this show has been the sideplots and side characters. Yabu, Ochiba, Fuji, Kiku, and Omi have all crushed it and kept me invested. I honestly don't care much about Mariko or Blackthorne in this show.
I'm in love with Fuji but might cheat with Ochiba😂
Booooooooo-rrrrrrriiiiiinnnnngggggg! I have no idea why they changed the story. No idea, It was pretty much as good as you can get, and now they've ruined it. It seems the American way to take works and wreck them deliberately. If it's not better than the first Shogun, why bother?
@@stevebubbie1126 Netflix is American and it doesn’t matter where it was made!
@@stevebubbie1126 So? Most of the actors were shipped in and god only knows why the had to have writers of Japanese descent writing it. It was already written! What they’ve done is made it a confusing mess and without the video post presentation, many wouldn’t get it. They’ve wrecked a perfectly good story and for no reason. As to their filming it in Canada, why both,er, it’s nothing like Japan!
Once again, you are projecting things that aren't even there. At no point in this episode does it imply that Blackthorne spent the night with Mariko and in fact, the show takes pains to show the opposite including Mariko's obvious jealousy and the not so subtle "It must be only you."
Furthermore, Blackthorne and Toranaga are not supposed to have any sort of burgeoning friendship in this version, and if you don't like that, you should be criticizing the change from the book, not complaining that their friendship (which, again, does NOT exist in this version) doesn't feel developed.
This kind of selective blindness has been a constant throughout your reviews of the show. How are we supposed to trust you as a critic or authority on anything when you are so incredibly committed to your own narrative that you imagine details and "facts" that aren't present?
First off it does not seem like you read the pinned comment. Second, this is not "selective blindness". I'm going off of what I know from the book as well as the real history, on top of the fact that the show also needs to be good and the characters/relationships convincing. If you don't like my take, I encourage you to seek out other videos.
@TheShogunate You're right, I missed the pinned comment, I apologize on that front.
But to effectively critique a piece of media, you have to understand that even as an adaptation, it is distinct from the source material. John is not necessarily going to be Toranaga's friend in this version just because he is in the other. Can you critique that change? Yes! Absolutely! In fact, I think it's a very valid criticism that their relationship is cold and distant even after all this time. What is not a valid criticism is saying that the reason this is a weak point is because they are supposed to be friends. They aren't supposed to be any such thing, nor has this adaptation pushed that narrative at all.
This may seem minor, but it is a consistent trend among all your reviews so far, the most egregious example of which is your previous review in which you criticize a number of "issues," including:
- Mariko's dismissal of her role as Japanese teacher (a role that she was never given in the show)
- Some sort of cultural disdain for boasting which, accurate or not, you extrapolate from a single individual's (Buntaro's) reaction
- The Japanese characters' supposed vegetarianism, based on their refusal to eat Blackthorne's stew, ignoring the fact that whether or not it contains meat is never mentioned, while myriad context clues suggest they simply don't trust the cooking of a man who hung a pheasant from the rafters to spoil.
Again, none of these are huge issues in a vacuum but there is an important distinction between consistency in character and world-building, and consistency in adaptation. Both are open to criticism, but you need to be able to tell the difference. Your consistent inability to do that is eroding your credibility and making me question if you are, for example, able to read a historical text without bringing your own context and assumptions to it, or if you are ascribing your own narrative to it. As someone who likes your channel, please by all means go off about historical inaccuracies, changes from the book that you don't like, and plot holes that you identify. But stop leaping to conclusions and calling something a plot hole or character inconsistency when it is simply a change from the source material, or criticizing a historical inaccuracy because you are projecting an individual's values on the entire culture. It does a disservice to the creatives behind the scenes, to your viewers, and ultimately to yourself.
@@TheRealIanAikido Well, John Adams was a good friend and close confidant of Tokugawa, so seems weird to deviate not only from the book but also so far from history
99% don't care about TRUE historical accuracy. It's about the story. It's ALWAYS about the story. Anyone who is picky about the accuracy is just looking for confrontation and attention as they think they are better because they see something that might not be of "period". Really?? That is a personal problem that seems to be prevalent these days.
Did you notice that this is a... historical channel? ;)
Let's see. The white guy has saved Toranaga so many times I can't keep count, and has all the women falling for him. The women are all smart and brave and the Japanese men are mostly ignorant brutes. I guess this is Clevell 's revenge for the POW camp. Lol. There should be a disclaimer at the beginning of every episode that this is pure fantasy.
How to say you haven't read the book without saying you haven't read the book.
I think it’s assumed, that since the novel has been out for almost 50 years, that people know this is a work of fiction.
@@PolarizedMechsWell, the screenwriters were never in a POW camp so my joke wouldn't have worked. Lol
@@dstarling61How many people in their 20s and 30s do you think know anything about books from 50 years ago?
It was very slow, was losing interest this episode