Shogun (2024) Episode 7 Review
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2024
- Episode 7 of Shogun, titled "A Stick of Time" sees Toranaga's brother, Saeki Nobutsuna arrive in Anjiro. Yet his sudden arrival is not one which bodes well for Toranaga's plans.
My review of episodes 1 and 2: • Shogun (2024) Episodes...
My review of episode 3: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
My review of Episode 4: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
My review of Episode 5: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
My review of Episode 6: • Shogun (2024) Episode ...
Interview with the Historical Advisor for Shogun: • Shogun (2024) Historic...
Check out my review of the 1980 Adaptation and my initial thoughts of the original book it is all based off of!
Review of the 1980 Adaptation: • Shogun (1980) | Samura...
My thoughts on the book: • I Finally Read Shogun ...
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“Blackthorn is straight up not having a good time” is the best summation sentence of this episode lmao
I'm thinking of the shitstorm that will be when he figures out the two women he cares about most want nothing more than to kill themselves.
Bro was legit the first dude to rage quit when Toranaga formally surrendered. What a change in his character from the book 😂😂
Best summation of most of the show. LOL
Shogun 1980: Land of the Rising Sun
Shogun 2024: Land of the Nonexistent Sun
What's neat is about 40 minutes into the episode Torinaga actually does give Madame Gin (The Madame) what she asked for in his will.
"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak" - Sun Tzu
... And you will lose every single war with the Western Colonial Empires ...
@@krixpop japan kicked russia's ass at least
@@eumaies
Absolutely !
With Arisaka Type 38 rifles (Mausser inspired), Western inspired cannons, and almost perfect Carl von Clausewitz military doctrine.
With Which also they completely obliterated the Sinno Sun Tzu stile armies during the First Sino-Japanese War 1894-95.
Read von Clausewitz "on War" to understand how and why the Western military doctrine, cleverly embraced and modded by Japan, dominated 200 years of military conquest.
Clausewitz And Sun Tzu also contradicted western assumption of west and east.
Sun Tzu tend to follow pragmatic approach to warfare, discourage (inept) political figure meddling in warfare, and fighting last resort with first being diplomacy and subterfuge.
Clausewitz tend to have noble insight on warfare, view military as will of the state, and also see it as similiar tools as diplomacy and espionage.
Ironically, most tend to use art of war for honorable Samurai (at least to the west…Japanese period piece tend to have cynical or mixed view on them, especially Dororo and Akira Kurosawa).
@@eumaies Given Russia's track record, that's kind of like beating the Cleveland Browns.
Toronaga's brother wears a helmet similar to famous daimyos, Kato Kiyomasa and Maeda Toshiie. Interesting...
Why is nobody speaking on the part where Blackthorne stood up and walked away? I was confused because I would assume that’s very disrespectful but Lord Toronaga didn’t say anything. Also, Mariko instructed that Blackthorne leave his pistols and only bring his swords but if you notice he carried his pistols and swords during the meeting at the end.
I'm sure that's all a ruse, part of Toranaga's plan. Remember Toranaga is known to use trickery & deception.
I thinknits all part of the plan. Id bet BT speaks Japanese by now but for Toranaga and BT it is more useful for everyone thinking of him as the idiot Barbarian who has abandoned Toranaga.... Until he, his boat, and his crew show up off the coast of Osaka as Toranaga "surrenders"
@@teufeldritch If Toranaga has a plot brewing, (and that's probably the case) he very likely wants everyone to react as if the surrender is his final defeat. The barbarian would act believeably disrespectful in his disgust at the surrender. Toranaga is in a tight spot, and is manipulating his friends and allies as much as his enemies.
Blackthorne acting disrespectful was perfect, and probably hoped for by Toranaga. As a Gaijin, he can act dispresctful witouth needing to commit seppuku. Amplyfing Toranaga's staged defeat. "Look, even the dimwitted Gaijin left Toranaga! Look how powerless he is!"
This sets the stage for the next phase of deception. His slow, slow march to Osaka. I am curious how the show will resolve the next stage of the book.
@@dominikvonlavante6113 I never thought about this at all. Just assumed he was throwing another tantrum, but I hope you are right.
BTW, Toranaga did not sanction the brothel assassination of his Brother. His quip to Hiromatsu about not allowing a child to be a "second" clearly tells us his plan is more thorough and through-out.
Do you think it was Blackthorn that set it up since he left only acknowledging Nakado and Yubi, or was it once again Omii planting seeds for Nakado so he could manipulate him into doing his biddings?
I'm becoming increasingly concerned for the portrayal of Blackthorn's character in this adaption. It's almost like the writers in their determination to avoid the "white saviour trope" have turned him into a hopeless buffoon. I mean seriously, a privateer who once fought under Drake against the Spanish Armarda has no clue how to handle a sword?
Blackthorne didn’t have an abusive spouse beating him up 24/7 and yet he looks more like a damsel in distress than Mariko.
Blackthorne knows how to use a saber or a cutlass, not a katana. Notice his stance when Yabu challenges him? He was trying to use his sword like the ones he is familiar with. It would be like giving a samurai a claymore and tell them "Go fight with it."
@@PolarizedMechs He wouldn't be a buffoon with the Katana, though. He would even state something like, "the Katana is inferiour to our sabres. Too heavy, poor guard, short reach". An he would be competent with it.
@@dominikvonlavante6113 But he would be something at a loss with the katana. At this point in time and being a sailor, he would be familiar with the rapier and maybe a cutlass, but they're both one handed weapons and unless he was some sort of master swordsman with years and years of experience he'd have a hard time adjusting to using a 2 handed weapon. Not only a 2 handed weapon, one with a bit of a shorter reach than he'd be used to as well as a point of balance that's much farther forward than he'd be used to.. And by this time he's seen enough samurai in action to know to not underestimate what a katana, or more likely tachi, can do. It's also shown that Blackthrone is far more comfortable with his pistols than with a sword of any kind and given his bringing, and social status back in England he probably had little to no formal sword training. He probably couldn't afford to attend a fencing academy or hire a tutor to teach him swordsmanship when he was younger, and was probably too busy learning how to build and pilot ships as well.
@@Riceball01 Very good point. Blackthorne even says "oh hold it two hands".
I'm really enjoying the show, there's lots to love about it. But I'm starting to question Blackthorn's survival instincts. From day 1 it was made incredibly clear to him that the Japanese aren't to be messed with, but despite this knowledge he keeps being very rash. Throwing a hissy fit (that no one even understands) while surrounded by enemies and unwilling allies is hardly a good idea.
Yea. Even if Jon doesn’t fully grasp their culture, it seems common sense that turning down great honors, titles, and privileges bestowed on him by a powerful leader could likely be a great insult, and disrespectful to even suggest otherwise. While yea, they do keep him effectively trapped in Japan, the alternative is to risk spoiling the goodwill he has created with the one person with power and ‘use’ for him to be keeping him alive. I get him trying to delicately communicate his concerns once realizing Toranaga’s ‘gifts’ are ‘buying’ him in a way, but to do so for the X’th time now, seems like he’s really pushing his luck, and makes him look impulsive and stupid.
I also wish they’d used the true historical basis of why they wanted to retain Jon (or person his character inspired by) - that he was desired not exclusively for ability to train in cannon/artillery warfare, but mainly for knowledge of shipbuilding. Where the English shipbuilding technology was far ahead of Japan, their vessels appeared absolutely massive, powerful, and awe-inspiring compared to Japanese ships of the era. As well as being strong, sturdy enough to withstand months on the open ocean, conduct trade continents away, plus carry and fire heavy cannons that allow only a few ships to effectively conduct siege of and bombard a port city (like Osaka)
.
The real Jon Blackthorn, was enticed because of the demands that he help them build a ship, then another following that. It wasn’t just about training them how to use 20 cannons taken from the ship he arrived on. Which isn’t as such a complex endeavor or impactful as helping Toranaga gain modern warships that were hundreds of years ahead of what any other Japanese possessed, and none having knowledge or built up local industry to support their creation.
Pretty sure Blackthorne is part of Toronaga's strike against his enemies, we are just not privy to that particular conversation as of yet. His showy exit from the supposed surrender felt kind of forced and out of character imo, like it was an act for the benefit of the enemies.
@@Ciiran Ikr. that scene where he walked out is really suspicious, I feel like something is definitely at play
I think it's put in there to humiliate him and to show that Blackthorne is completely out of touch. Part of the 'de-centering white men' theme of this show.
By the way, the showrunner has apparently hinted that Blackthorne’s seppuku attempt was moved to a later episode. I don’t know how that will work out.
Filmed on Vancouver Island. Very rainy place and giant trees. I guess they got tired of waiting for the sun and decided to film during the rainy days. I don't mind.
um, spoiler warning...?!! "attempt" how the hell do you "attempt" seppuku...?!! Once you cut yourself open, you are pretty much fucked anyway, especially back then, so...
I think i can take a guess where this attempt will occur. To me will be linked to Mariko, as the shogunate said, she is his only true link to the land.
@@MasterDownUnder He could be stopped before he actually cuts himself, obviously.
@@MasterDownUnder Read the book and you will understand.
As a life-long fan of the 1980 series and the book, I am *really* enjoying this new series. Given how well the 1980 series still holds up, I was skeptical that Shogun needed another adaptation but it's been thrilling to see how this new team has shaken things up, expanding on characters like Fuji (such a great, tragic character in this version!), changing up the plot like this weeks death of Yoshi Nagakado and most of all, how they've approached the language barrier and the heavy lifting Mariko is doing in *interpreting* (not just translating) both to and from Blackthorne. I really appreciate how the 1980 version decided not to have subtitles for the Japanese and the effect it has on the viewer and conversely, in the new series how having the Japanese translating opens up the story. Both valid approaches with each bringing something fascinating to the show.
I must admit though that with each passing week, I'm liking the new Blackthorne less and less. He's far, *FAR* too passive, reactive and kinda dim-witted. I miss the much more take charge, intelligent and inquistive Richard Chamberlain Blackthorne. He started strong, intuiting how to behave and navigate (pun fully intended) this new society he finds himself in but he's become mired in his self-interest to the detriment of his likability, relatability and more and more, the realism of the story. It's becoming more frustrating to watch him every episode with the end of this one and his temper tantrum being a new low point.
I agree. I like the actor, and I get that they want to show it more from the Japanese perspective (and avoid the "white savior" reputation the book got--which makes no sense, since Blackthorne was in no way that kind of person)...but he's too weak of a character. Chamberlain was able to convey that Blackthorne was a fish out of water, but with that solid inner strength that made the character so good. You understood that Toranaga liked Blackthorne and wanted to keep him as an ally. This Blackthorne gets his ass kicked in every episode, Mariko treats him like a dimwitted child, and Toranaga seems to regard him as being annoying.
It's one of the few weak points of the series.
A strong male and white character would surprise me given the current social-political climate. And no, the Anjin is not saving anyone here but himself and what little remains of his crew. Seems that is already too much for the industry. Still, some people in the comment sections assumed the audience is supposed to like the main character.
I think these guys are wildly mistaken and could not be more wrong. It's no coincidence that Blackthorne is such a dullard, detached from his whole surrounding in this new series. That DOES have negative consequences, though because despite the title of the book the protagonist IS the English navigator. It would have surprised me a lot had this Blackthorne be anything like the one Richard Chamberlain portrayed.
@@saymyname2417difference between narrator and protagonist
@@dereksout - What do you mean?
INTERPRETING ! brilliant note... people here dont understand the difference
I'm pretty sure Blackthorn was ordered to take all these L's as not to rouse the wrong attention to himself. I imagine Toranaga had already asked him to crew the ship and/or canons and position them in key points of ambush. And the whole sword play was also a ruse to make it seem like he's just a lowly banjin.
That Blackthorne would get up and leave is a little suspicious. Thinking maybe he and the canon are off on a special mission.
My theory is that Nagakado is based on Ieyasu first and eldest son, Nobuyasu, who did die in real life (excuted), and the unborn son is in fact, Hidetada.
If you look at when Nobuyasu died, he was about 20 years old and died just before Hidetada was born. It matches up to how Nagakado died in the show at the same age, with there being another Tokugawa being born.
The last thing to solidify my theory is that Hidetada was born to the one of Ieyasu's cocubine in real life. In the show, you can clearly see Nagakado was from the first wife with the unborn child belonging to one of the concubine. Anyhow great stuff!
Brother, I have been on your channel since episode one. Learning all the lore and history you have curated from this most interesting time period. Thank you for these reviews, your perspective and overall commitment to this content. You are the true Shogunate 🎎
There is one thing that baffles me whether or not they stay true to the book. In reality if anyone from Elizabethan England were to wash up on Japan and were given fiefdom, courtesans, and a personal translator they would 100% assimilate to think otherwise is insane. A man of blackthorne’s class would never surmount to the gifts Toranaga has furnished for him.
Exactly, it's almost as if Blackthorn doesn't understand the concept of what lords are, seeing that in his own country has had them since before he were born .
@@abc4781 he wouldn’t even need to be versed in the subject. Think of all of Human history, all the revolutions and bloodshed for freedom to own something small as a farm or land or to prosper. Obviously we see that for now he is a pawn on the chessboard from the audience perspective but blackthorne wouldn’t be so keen from his.
"I've made you a lord"
"nah, I'm OK thanx, can I go kill Catholics yet?"
I think, at this point, we can call this character assassination.
You're totally correct but by this point he has seen like 20 people get beheaded and some of them had gifts bestowed upon them as well. I mean, a dude was killed for touching a rotten bird. Another dude had to kill himself and his infant son for speaking out of turn.
Toronaga gets a grandchild in Edo and he also has more grandchildren he mentioned in his will. He clearly has better decendens in reserve.
I also doubt Yabu is going to betray Toronaga, he is very much a different interpretation from the book character, not much in deeds but in demeanor.
And he seems to be a fanfavourite, not a minor villan but comic relief.
The production is so smart with the show that they might have anticipated that
I wonder if the main character of Hyouge Mono was based from this character and the second season is all about storming the Osaka castle.
I think you are right. If he was going to betray in the show, then I don't think they would beat us viewers constantly over the head with him playing both sides and trying to switch over so much buy failing each attempt. I think in the show he will be the fortunate recipient of Toranaga's genius when he wanted to defect for the last few episodes. Also, he seems to be the only one really looking out for Blackthorne, even if he doesn't care much for him.
I think Yabu is really weak in this show.
This show has me absolutely hooked. Thanks for the breakdown & content! I just discovered your channel & subbed. Keep up the great work!
MY TWO FAVORITE CHANNELS!
Thank you!!
The legend himself
5:43 Her name is Gin. She also requested Toranaga to build Yoshiwara district for her in Edo.
8:22 Actually, Nagakado was based on Ieyasu’s another son of the same mother (Lady Saigo no Tsubone), Matsudaira Tadayoshi. The one who was inspired by Hidetada is Yoshii Sudara.
But since they totally left out Sudara, Nagakado is a mixture of both Hidetada and Tadayoshi in an instant and this is a problem, at least for me.
In the book, none of these kids were killed off because Toranaga’s biggest goal is to establish a Toranaga shogunate and having at least one heir is necessary for the shogunate to be formed but now with his only son dead in the show, what’s the point of said grand plan anymore? Even if Toranaga win the war, it’s still a hollow victory because he’s old and he’s gonna die soon without an heir anyway. His family’s reign will end in just one generation (unlike in real life, with the presence of Hidetada, Ieyasu was comfortable to retire after two years and let Hidetada become his puppet shogun to secure the bloodline).
And not to mention how everyone is so either cold or murderous towards Blackthorne (thanks to the whole learning language in six months plotline being left out). There’s zero reason for Blackthorne to appreciate Japanese culture, let alone being in Toranaga’s side. It would even make more sense for Blackthorne in this version to defect the Eastern Army and join the Western Army in Osaka because at least Ochiba and Ishido never tried to kill him.
The warmth and compassion between characters are gone. And the betrayal and hatred are so amped up that it lacks subtlety (in the book, it’s implied that Zataki wasn’t that in on it with the council. He just got along with them because he saw the opportunity to topple his brother and became a shogun instead and he also wanted to bang Ochiba. It’s more subtle than this). Topped with the stupid death just for the sake of shock value. That’s why I considered that this show has fully become “Game of Thrones” and ceased to be Shogun.
nont18411 is right. I agree that Nagakado's historical counterpart is Tadayoshi. He died young and loved by both Ieyasu and Hidetada.
@@user-hf9pl2nt6t But Tadayoshi still got to witness Sekigahara under Ii Naomasa’s mentorship and died 7 years later, not went out slipping like this.
and the 'maybe anjin-san would like to fuck a DUCK" part in the begginning of the book (he admits he has committed pedophilia once)
Would you say disappointed with this show?
It's not hard to understand because it keeps getting excited and then stalling, and then getting excited and then stalling.
In other words, it becomes necessary to connect the place through violence and eroticism.
I won't be able to evaluate how it will end with 3 more episodes left until then.
@@nont18411 He didn't die here, as you point out. He participated in the Battle of Sekigahara. Still, it's reasonable to assume that Nagakado's historical counterpart is Tadayoshi. The whole story is fictional, so we don't know when the characters will die. However, the characters have characteristics of their historical counterparts. Tadayoshi was thoughtless but brave; he did everything to help his father and died young. I don't think this is Hidetada, who became the second shogun despite being overwhelmed by his great father.
I remember in the 1980 series, when Blackthorne and Rodriguez reached Osaka, waiting on the dock was Lord Naga, Toranaga's 5th son. He also had another son, Lord Suga.
I remember that moment as well. Did they just not have time to show that, or are they saving that moment of showing the other heirs for later
I don't think they will. They made the entire show about Toranaga, even if the story in Shogun is about Blackthorne.
At this point of the story even Blackthorne knew about the 3 living, grown-up sons Toranaga has, or who is his heir.
We don't even know if Toranaga has another son besides Naga who got more screen time than it supposed. Just like Ochiba, who is a minor character, less important than even Mura, the village leader.
As always, I enjoyed your review. I find some of the story changes a little disturbing, but like you also a little compelling. Sometimes, it's nice to not know all the twists and turns in the road, even when you know where the journey will end.
Naga/Nagakado is not the stand-in for Hidetada but for Matsudaira Tadayoshi, the fourth son of Ieyasu. Yoshii Sudara is the stand-in for Hidetada and I think he hasn't appeared in the show yet. In the book, Naga no longer has much of an active role after killing Jozen so I think that's why they decided to have him meet a more dramatic end.
There's lots to like about the show and I'm personally enjoying it, but why is it all so visually dark and gloomy? Day or night, outdoors or indoors, the visuals are relentlessly dull, dark and grey. It would be nice to see some of the colourful beauty and decoration of the period! And why is it seemingly always raining? Nit-pick aside, I hope the success of Shogun leads to more such quality historical shows being made. There is clearly an audience interest.
No street lights lol
I've seen a lot of movies and shows with this color palate in the last few years, and I am not sure why. Maybe it's a popular style atm?
I think it‘s because it‘s supposed to be autumn and they‘re basically all considered to be death, because they surrendered. So they make the lightning gloomy to fit the atmosphere. It‘s also a classic film making cliche that it‘s always dark and raining when someone from the main cast is depressed or dying.
Curious to know a couple - of the things to like about the show, that is. The costumes are weird, the actors don't act like real Japanese, the photography is depressing; the score is a downer…..
You can always watch GoT... Very sunny, and Uber realistic @@cocoacrispy7802
I still call BS on Blackthorn's "I'm a sailor, I don't know the hilt from the blade...", man's a seasoned privateer who raided Portuguese ports for years. He may not be a blade master but he damn sure isn't as clueless as he pretends to be.
I know how to use a sword too but I’m not going to act like I’m any kind of threat against a guy who would chop my head off if I do anything he doesn’t like. Think of it this way, you’re walking down the street and a cop pulls over and gives you a gun and tells you he wants to train you.Then he pulls out his gun and points it at you. You’re going to act similar to Blackthorne.
Well, unless his pistol jams, fail to fire, or miss.
Keep in mind, it’s musket.
But he should be familiar with sabers and maybe hatchet.
As an Englishman living in Asia for the last 10 years I like that Blackthorn is struggling to understand, struggling to make friends but at the same time doing very well with some women (not all). For me I can relate lol.
One thing I like about this series is that even when people are just sitting down and just talking, the dramatic tension is real and palpable- it's all generated in the minds of the viewers. In fact, Shogun has few fighting scenes and even at that, those actions were quite short. But we know in this Samurai culture, the people, especially the warriors, are violent people, apt to cut off people's head at a moment notice. The viewers were setup early about this very early in Episode One when Omi cut off a villager's head for a minor disrespectful gesture.
Something important that budding screenwriters should take note: If you write in a setup, make the sure the viewers have a payoff later in the story, otherwise they will feel cheated.
Something I noticed this episode was one the kamons on a warrior, I'm guessing an allied clan, during Toranaga's flashback battle scene was what appeared to be the 3 dots of the real world Matsura clan. Also later in the show, on older Toranaga's armor, you see the same kamon flanking Toranaga's own kamon, Matsura / Toranaga / Matsura.
The clan colors hardly matter because it's so bloody desaturared and drab. There are literally no blue skies, no reds, greens, whites, or anything bright in any way. It's all just dull grey and weird orange meant to look like candle light. You can't see any of the amazing details in the costuming. It's just plain boring to look at, regardless of its historical accuracy. History was not actually "grim dark". People have always loved color and found ways to surround themselves with it.
I'm struggling with this aspect too. Even the interiors of settings like Osaka Castle are depicted as drab and gloomy, with no real sense of the beautiful architecture and colourful decoration of such a place. The costumes are gorgeous but I'm having to squint to see them. I'm not sure why they chose to make everything so overcast, dull and monotone all the time.
@@fractalfae5418 This seems to be a staple of all "modern" cinema and design writ large. Part of it is that literally every frame of every shot has some sort of CGI/digital grading, so nothing looks "real" anymore. They also seem dead set on highlighting "diversity" by making everyone looks as similar as possible. Everyone looks the same in the dark, I suppose.
@@KarlKarsnarkhow are they highlighting "diversity" by having everyone looking the same? Seems like a contradictory statement
@@fractalfae5418 That's not entirely true. When they first arrived in Osaka, Rodriguez comments on how advanced the city is compared to europe and there's a really great shot of the city. But yes for the most part it is a bit drab. I think they are trying to convey it's winter time.
@@calvinfisher5886 Irony, reading comprehension and the English language are clearly not your strong suits. Pro Tip: all forms of politically motivated "Diversity" initiatives are designed to erode uniqueness and individuality for the sake of "Oneness". That's why everyone and everything are all now the same shade of beige or grey, or orange to hide skin tones (see: DUNE, the glasses of "Blue Eye Samurai," et. al.) Using real lighting would show the actual differences and true diversity of people, which is no longer allowed in our Wonderful World of Oneness.....I mean Globablist Hegemony. I bet you're wondering where all the Black folks are too, right? LOL!
I can't wait for your review! Very good, thank you! I maintain my opinion that this show is grade 7! I don't like what they did with the characters, what they did with the story, I think that at this moment this show has too little of the book, I don't think it should say that it is an adaptation of the book written by James Clavell!
Hey Shogunate, love you're content, will you be making a series on the Bakumatsu period and cover the Boshin War?
As always, commenting before watching.
IMO this is a good series, but also IMHO is a bit disappointing.
I think was a "mistake" to make it less about John. The result ended looking like almost any other series during time period, but compromised, because the normal sengoku story has to share time with John's protagonism, and neither have the time to breath properly.
I feel there's a lack of individual scenes, scenes just with the characters interacting and spending time to developed their relationships. I can complain a lot about this episode if I take this angle. For example, the episode apparently tried to create some tension about what Buntaro would do to John when he got suspicious that something was going on between him and his wife, but he just suddenly almost attracted John and that was it. There was no scenes between the two exploring this tension, and this sudden attack interrupted the scene between John and Yabushige. What was that? Nothing happened here, John barely lifted his sword, what was the point, a waste of scene. Maybe because there was not time? If the series was more about John than maybe there could be time.
I also noticed that John and Fuji doesn't even share the screen anymore, it's almost like the two aren't even related characters anymore. In this episode John was told more than one time to now walk around with this gun, but if it did even appeared on screen I missed it. And they tried to make a big deal Fuji having one of his guns.
You get the idea.
I understand that Torunaga's situation isn't as dire as it seems, he should have a way out, but we seem nothing, absolutely nothing from him. I know this is intentional, but because this series is telling the story more from the point of view of the samurai is a bit frustrating because there's nothing for us to see there. Some will be "surprised" when he finally makes his move, but until there it stresses our patience, waiting.
Ah, yes, "that" scene at the end.
I thought I had watched the wrong video, that somehow I had watched an adulterated episode with a April 1 joke. Unbelievable.
Yabu i think has become my favourite character somehow
He's a shadow of what he ought to be.
9:27 When Toranaga was seen dictating his will there was no mention of his son however, he named his heirs as his grandchildren “when they come of age”. I thought it odd yet insignificant until his son slipped and killed himself - indicating there is much to be revealed…
The slipping incident may just be a way to write out Tokugawa's murder of his own family since that doesn't make a character look too nice...
I'm guessing that by this point that maybe Blackthorne actually *can* speak and understand Japanese but is keeping it a secret
Could be
@@TheShogunate there just seems to be some dialogue scenes where he listening a bit more intently than you'd take him to be if you can't understand Japanese. Making it appear that he can't speak it would convey some more "barbarian privilege" keeping him out of the stricter social protocols, I mean, that shit works in Japan to this day
That could make for a very interesting reveal if so, with Blackthorne feigning ignorance only to then prove himself far more intelligent and clever than some of those around him presumed. I know it's different to the original story as there hasn't been a lot of attention given to his learning the language in this show, but such a reveal could be quite impactful.
Nah. You're giving them too much credit. You can't just pull a rabbit out of your hat without some sort of setup beforehand, and they have done none of that.
I think Blackthorne and Toranaga have something cooking together. I think Blackthorne speaks fluent Japanese by this point with only Toranaga knowing this. I believe they are planning on a Naval bombardment or blockade of Osaka using BT ship to force Ishido's forces into open battle with Toranaga(Sekigahara). Part of the "3 hearts" idea. BT is masking his true intentions and strategy behind a facade of aloofness. That whole storming out of the council was just a charade.
Nope.
In the book, Toranage never realizes the utility of a mobile gun platform parked right in front of Osaka castle. In the book, Toranage is also dismissive of the insane power that can be generated through the insane profits of trade. He dismissively calls the Queen a merchant and not a real leader seeking ultimate power over her subjects.
In the book, Blackthorne is also explicitly leaving out real battle and siege strategies used by European Armies. In the book he realizes that all Japanese castles are completely defenseless against 17th century use of canons and is dreaming of laying waste to Osaka with a company of European troops.
@@dominikvonlavante6113 this is not the book.
@@ryanh2479 to 98% it is the book. Only here, blackthorne is displaying too much baffoonery.
I think Nagakado is based on Matsudaira Tadayoshi. Sudara is the heir in the book.
Until we see Sudara, I'm not sure what to think
I am not one for making drastic changes from books to film.
But upon reflection, I think Mariko going out like Gracia did would be better thematically.
I think it would have more impact on the characters and the overall plot of the story.
Why hasn't Blackthorne been trained on how to use his swords, especially with all these titles he has?
Because he's not important in their story. Only Toranaga is, a much different Toranaga than the book also.
Blackthorne is presented like a savage that doesn't know how to behave, how to act in different situations. He always has that confused look, like he doesn't understand why he's there, what he has to do.
At this point of the story he was already acting like a samurai, with mannerism, body language, speaking. Instead this Blackthorne didn't even learned to speak japanese yet and that what Toranaga needed, to talk with him without any interference from anyone else. To hear Blackthorne's opinions and thoughts about some aspects. Because Mariko, as Christian, always put to doubt some things Blackthorne revealed about Spain and Portugal interests in the new world.
I haven't read the book or seen the old show so I'm enjoying watching this with 0 previous context.
So far I am loving the tribal chemistry between Torunaga and all his lords. we know their names and stories which adds weight to Torunaga's decisions when they involve the whole clan
The begining was amazing and i hope there are more flash back like this. Although I saw the way Toragana swing his sword was weak and pathetic. Which was the whole point when his brother boast about him cutting the head in one fell swoop which was him insulting him but everyone was praising him and the oppsite happen when he again mocks of him shating his pants. That beginning really sets up every thing and lures you with a expecation of what would happen. Expecation vs reality. 9 time he tries to cut his head off but 9 times he fail because he was a kid.
This epsideo really digs deep with Toragana and i love it and want to see more it of his past and thinking. What really bothers me is how much he defends John so much and how casual he is and John for the 1st time spoken out of his postion only for him to back down again then insults him and his company in front of his face.
His son's death was a shock for me to see although i dont think he would die but dam did I felt so dissapointed with his tragic end. Again lile i said in the perious epsido he was a idiot who takes everything to a impusive act. Beheading Jozen and trying to kill his uncle with no though of what would come next. I hope he surives and if he dose that mother $@€£*$ better learn how to be humble and crafty like his father. I had a feeling that long robe was gonna be the death of someone but did not expect it to be Toragana's son which was "killed" by a long wet robe.
I also watch this seires with my brother and he woukd offten compared to last samurai with Naten comming to love the samurai and how Katumoto would form a bond with each other. Here we dont get that. Its more like John is held at his leash and never barls back and Toragana is too relax with John and although he lash out with Mariko and Buntaro he never done that with John. But what i do enjoy from this is the feeling how it takes a jab at the last samurai for its romantisum of samurai culture. Assination attememts preform not by black cloak sinobi but other samurais. How Kastamoto's son dies and heroic death but Toragana's son in a pathetic way.
i just finished it as u uploaded this video
same here
They really nerfed Blackthorne in this series.
Blackthorne in the novel is educated, experienced, intelligent, and worldly; above all he's a survivor.
I'm left wondering why Toranaga likes this guy? Why is Mariko attracted to this guy? He spends most of his time moping around, and his learning seems to have plateaued. He's not getting particularly better with the Japanese language, and he's not seemingly actively interested in doing so. He's not being assimilated into Japanese culture, which happen to him in the novel, and is what happens with William Adams, the person upon which he is based.
Blackthorne was more multidimensional in the novel; there was more to him that just the knowledge he had that was useful to Toranaga. He was a rebel, a wildcard, and an outsider in a time and place where society was very formalized and rigid. He can get away with things others can't, and take actions others wouldn't conceive of, because he's a outsider with his own manners of behaviour and philosophies.
And before someone says it, no he was not portrayed as a saviour who becomes a perfect Samurai and solves everyone's problems in the novel. He spent the overwhelming majority of his time in the novel at the mercy of events outside of his control, and was at the whim of multiple Japanese characters.
Yes, some Daimyos used kinds of similar outfits to identify or show off their mighty army.
Kyushu Daimyo Tachibana Muneshige ordered hundreds of gold gilded peach shaped helmets for his elite mounted samurais, 239 of these helmets still exist in Tachibana Museum, Fukuoka.
Do you think there will be a second season? I did not read the book so I dont know how they could wrap this up in 3 episodes
I don't see why they needed Blackthorne-focused episodes if they never planned on integrating him or utilizing him at even half the pace the original show and book did. Buntaro causes a ruckus at Blackthorne's house in the evening and then puts himself through public humiliation in apologizing- which Blackthorne does not accept, as far as I could tell. He then decides to put a sword up to Toranaga's Hatamoto's neck, in public, in 'broad daylight' (it's always raining in Vancouver) and has absolutely no repercussions from any of his liege lords. Worse, every opportunity they have to show Blackthorne integrating in any way- such as perhaps making a small response to Yabu during his beach-side confession, they instead have Blackthorne stupidly and blankly stare at all the actors. Somehow Chamberlain's rendition of the Anjin had him picking up even the physical cues of the Japanese actors and reacting to body-language. Here, it appears Blackthorne is told by the director to 'stay quiet and stay still.' If this show had 2 seasons, this episode might be looked back upon with favour. Since it's a mini-series and time is precious, I feel like this episode's contents could have been done in 30 minutes, not 55.
Omi is to strategic to not to do what he did in the book and ask Blackthorne for his friendship.Buntaro would not attack a Hatamoto without asking for permission first.And Blackthorne was not as Mariko dependent in book.He has a dictionary he got from priest in jail in book and 1980 series which allowed him some communication on his own.And every stick of time matters in Toranagas hands indeed.The Mamma san insight is great but all of the people who have seen Toranaga bend things to his will around him should also have a clue he would not be this easily trapped
None of the three main characters are "main" at this point in this particular adaptation. They are mostly single note "bystanders" while so much of the plot driving and discoveries are being done by "side" characters.
Fuji, Yabu, and Buntaro are all progressing as characters. Even Nagakado and Omi are doing more to drive the plot vs the main 3. The main 3...dont like each other, dont trust each other, and barely communicate with one another. So who cares what happens to any of the main 3?
Honestly, I can't be the only person who notices this, right?
It's the whole "let's create tension by keeping characters from talking with each other" mode of "modern" storytelling. It's so infuriating.
Thank you for your thoughts on the show. We really have enjoyed the show on FX. I had read the book and did an essay on it in school(over 40 years ago🙄)so I y serrano your viewpoint.
Thanks again for another invaluable review, Shogunate!
It sounds like in various aspects the show continues to be improving, which is very welcomed.
I'm personally still concerned, but if the show continues in the direction it has continued to do so I'll likely end up supporting it after it finishes it's airing.
I'm very disappointed that they didn't stick to the original story as much as is possible for a film adaptation to do so, but it sounds like it'll be an entertaining watch nevertheless. Which is uncommon in the western film industry now a days. Though personally at this point I feel that the show should be classified as "inspired by" rather than "adaptation of" because of the many changes that have been made to the story. So it really should be seen/regarded as something different. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does disappoint me, because I was looking forward to an adaption and that's what they promised/advertised.
Again thank you very much, Shogunate! These reviews are invaluable to me and I appreciate them more than I can probably say.
Rarely can a show pull an audible reaction from me, but when I saw Nagakado slip and crack his skull, it did it for me! Pretty suremy upstairs neighbor heard my reaction 😅 I'm really looking forward to how this impacts the rest of the series.
I may be reading into it a bit much, but Ifeel like they want to make Fuji and Blackthorne a match by the end of the series. My theory is that after Mariko's death, Blackthorne will have his seppuku attempt, but will be stopped by Fuji who will ask to go first, but will be in turn stopped by Blackthorne, an event that will leave both closer to each others. Yeah, that came to me from those two short scenes with her and her grandfather. Pure speculation though.
I like it.
I really don’t mind the changes to book, because a James Clavel Authorized version already exists. Why repeat the story again? I like that I don’t no where the story is going.
So, there's a line in this episode where Toranaga refers to Saeki Nobutsuna as "his mongrel half-brother." And I couldn't help but notice some differences in Saeki's hair, beard, and frankly, bone structure. Is his character supposed to be half Korean or European in this adaptation, or was he in the original series or book? With that high, long topknot, and goat, he looks a LOT more like 16th century, Korean nobility than 17th century Japanese daimyo.
Yeah that's another thing, the liberties they took with the haircuts and overall costumes. It's like no one in the production team ever watched a samurai film. Yet Hollywood can stop praising Akira Kurosawa's film the Seven Samurai.
The whole show just smells of Japanese weebo Fandom!
It is some time since I read the book but when the son died it felt familiar, might well be wrong on that. By this point in the book the Anjin was fluent in Japanese, enough for a conversation at least, his luck will turn in next episode or two at a guess.
Tbh I like this show's depiction of his rate of learning. The book was a bit unrealistic that Blackthorne could have a solid handle on the language without formal education within a few months, as an English speaker. Currently Japanese is rated as one of the hardest languages to learn for English speakers and proficiency in it takes years. Him being able to say more complex sentences as episodes go on is nice to see, and far more realistic.
@@Wasthere73 By the end of the book, Blackthorne was able to carry on a conversation if it was done in short sentences, like "Make Mariko wife." Not really fluent, and about where a foreigner would be after the better part of a year, immersed in the culture with the one dictionary in the whole country.
I mean, not everyone can be Flashman.
@@Wasthere73He learns like a millenial staring at his phone every 5 minutes , not as someone stuck, for the rest of his life perhaps, in a dangerous foreign land.
Blackthorn has something up his sleeve at the end. I expect another ‘cannon’ scene to wipe out Toranaga’s brothers army.
When are we finally going to get some fight scenes
Three slow eps in a row. Hope theres some action in the next one.
In the books, Toranaga's heir is Sudara and not Naga! So it is possible to see Sudara in books too!
That could be!
Can you do a review of the 2017 Chinese movie called God of War that depicts Japan’s expansion into China during the Ming dynasty? :)
A bit incorrect - Hidetada is Sudara in the book, not Nagakado.
What if there would be an alternate finale ending in which Ishido and his forces totally win the conflict (even though the novel and history portray otherwise)? This episode makes me wonder that. And not that I would like such an idea.🤔
Can someone explain the significance of the scene where yabushige had a confrontation with saeki’s men at the hot springs?
There is no significance. Just empty tension.
The joyous and loving nature of meeting his brother makes his portrayal so painful for me.
Also it seems he is supposed to be a leader UNDER someone else ? It was mentioned that why would they let someone so young be their second. Seemingly implying it was he who made the winning move, but not in overall command
So maybe that's who they show ur is not his own warlord but also showing some skill for battle at a young age
I think John would be happier if there wasn't a looming war as he does seem to appreciate Japanese culture but also sticks to aspects of his culture which is fair, he cares for his men and has mostly just been subject to politics and war thus it makes sense he is not having a good time but he likes Fuji and Mariko and was mates with his Gardener
the brothel madam is named Gin
I found most of the characters are one dimensional and act like teenagers unlike book. And there is no notion of how much time passed between events or distances between locations..
He has to be miserable ,he's a foreigner in a new land ,its a drastic change he has to deal with
Overall I still enjoy the Show but this episode might be my lest favourite so far. Nagakados Death just seemed to happen to have the Show be different for the sake of being different.
Anyone knows who's head was it that was sent to yabushige? The head has a one eye patch on and we all know who's the famous one eye patch samurai is in sengoku jidai...
From what I heard, there were a few samurai during the sengoku jidai that wore eyepatches, not just Date Masamune. I highly doubt it was a character meant to be Masamune that was executed.
His son dying was the shock for me. Not only did it deviate from history but I expect it deviates from the book. I never read the book. I'm anxious to see the next episode and season finale.
why is there "smog" in literally every shot too? A little mood fog is one thing, but this is just silly.
I suggest you visit forest near ocean during winter
@@baileyboy6246 I live in Florida. We got plenty of both and it's actually quite sunny ;) Same in Japan. Sure, there are cloudy days, but this is just absurd.
1000% agree. It’s nothing like how Japan is.
It's cheaper than film sets. They blew their budget in the first 3 episodes (and saving for the last episode).
I think that with these changes they wanted to introduce a dose of uncertainty. There is a book, there is already a series and finally there is a history that is almost copied in the book. So that a large number of people know what will happen and how it will go, and that in this way they wanted to surprise them too and not expect too much and a simple reproduction of what already exists. I believe that the ending will be the same as in the book, but it will be reached by a different path.
I was disappointed in episode 7 for several reasons. Blackthorn is still acting like a sluggish dullard with no appreciable progress towards understanding the situation he is in, this I think is a distinct departure from the book. Toronaga’s son has been given much more exposure so far in the series whereas in the book he is almost nonexistent, in addition you are correct that his death is not in the book. I do not recall the assignation attempt in the book and this whole episode revolves around Toronaga’s brother whereas (as I recall), it was barely a page or 2 in the book and I think also there was no assassination attempt on his brother. Again I am very surprised at the almost total absence of Father Alvito and the Jesuits in general, another distinct departure from the book. I am finding the 1980 treatment much more closely aligned with the book (still do not like the music). The success of this series in my view is the sets, period dress, the depiction of the period culture, and the actors portraying Toronaga, Fuji, Hiromatsu, Buntaro, and Gin…disappointed in the direction and guidance of the other main characters, I think they missed the mark.
Did anyone else hear that weird Elephant noise in the background, or is it just me. (Episode 7)
I liked this episode, but they could easily make this into two seasons considering they’re taking so much time to develop the character arcs and we have not seen a single battle scene yet…curious how they’re going to wrap everything up in 3 episodes….
Will they have a 2nd season?
Clearly Crimson Sky is now in jeopardy as the uncle was to lead toranaga straight into osaka castle, for the assault, the son has now stupidly attacked the uncle who is on their side all along...just my thoughts
Turned recording of series off, think I just like watching these videos instead. The characters are all made out to be so dim witted and one dimensional. I actually laughed out loud several times in this episode because of how ridiculous it is.
After Toranaga commits sepukku the road will be open for Blackthorne to become Shogun
Yes, I think that seeing what this show has become, that could be the best ending... Blackthorne marries Mariko and they together form a dynasty ;-)
Gtfoh with that bs. That’d be garbage.
Dude... 🤣😹😂❗
Blackthorn has also a careful friendship with Fujiko in this adaptaion, but yeah, by that point he also should know Japanese better. I was very sad, that they killed off Naga, because he was with all his faults a pretty likeable character in the book.
What did toranaga mean by, “are you with me, or are you with the Barbarian?” when scolding Mariko? He keeps showering the guy with gifts, and he’s certainly no threat. Is he planning on turning on him orrrr…. Did I miss something?
He just meant, are you letting your service to me be impacted by your feelings towards him.
@@summerville6505 that makes sense. I was just reading into it too much. Thanks for clearing it up.
How do you feel about; the way Toronaga's son died?
dissapointing?
did he deserve it?
I would let this character of hidetada to survive this. It is little possible that nagakaro would survive. We just should wait for ep 8
The shift in focus from Blackthorne is not compelling. It seems like it's a story of Toranaga's expected win instead. we'll see how they bring in Blackthorne's character back into the plot as the main character....
Haven't read the book, this is my first exposure to an adaptation of William Adams in Japan. The series is very enjoyable and well done so far, but I have to agree John doesn't seem to be fitting in anywhere right now, or at least not in any nuanced manner. He's put Mariko into a difficult position, but he ultimately seems to have become irrelevant and has fallen by the wayside in favour of the admittedly more interesting politics. While this outcome is probably more like how we would've expected it to go in reality, it's frustrating for most of the scenes for John being him just wanting his ship back and complaining and not making any effort to make the most of the situation he's in.
Totally unrealistic for a character of that time and age. The life of a sailor of that period in history was a sad affair, always looking for that chance to make a fortune and a name for himself. Yet in this version of James Clavell novel John Blackthorne is an idiot who doesn't even know how to hold a sword. Never mind that the reason he ended up in Japan was because they were planing to raid the Portuguese ports and ships....
I think they just trolled us with Nagakato's death. I wasn't expecting it and it made me laugh
I'm glad he's dead his character was so dumb.
There's only 3 episodes left. There's no more room for character building... the characters are now exactly as we see them. The "romance" between Blackthorne and Mariko is, not a romance at all really. As you said, Blackthorne is friendless and finds no attachment to Japan at all. Yabu is just a buffoon with no complexity. Toranaga will react out of grief and lash out, betraying his hinted at calculating side. All we can expect from here on out is the "Plot" to take over leading up to a final battle. Hey does anyone remember the jesuits? :D This show is a bit of a fail, really lacking in the complexity and motivations that made the book shine. I'll keep watching but i'm pretty disappointed.
I am enjoying the series, although there are also things that are confusing me, I still enjoy every episode though I am kind of surprised Hidetada died that was a surprise I kind of liked Nagakado, makes me wonder what will happen next shame though that this son may actually not be Hidetada but instead Tadayoshi who I know fights alongside Naomasa Ii at Sekigahara. Having no kids to continue on his line is confusing, I wonder how this will proress, this is going a different and surprising route that has left me baffled, although I am sure they have a plan.
With everyone hating Blackthorn it's interesting to see what will happen, Next chapter shold be interesting I imagine. Blackthorn just walking out of that council meeting wbut Ia as stupid I am curious why they keep doing things like that which would ultimately get him killed for his foolish actions.
I really like the show but I do feel like somehow a lot is happening but also nothing is happening at the same time
Nagakado’s death has made this show much better. There have been small deviations from the novel, which have annoyed me. Some things have been left out for pace. Which I have believed to be a mistake. They could have paced this show, twice as slow. And created 2 seasons. But don’t change things that don’t matter. Make it the same or make it different. Pick one. With such a large divergence from the novel, this adaptation finally has my full attention. I’m not sure what to expect next. What else will be altered. What will be kept
Blackthorne will die protecting Mariko who will then take control of his ships and fight the Jesuits. Are your expectations subverted? I think I hate this show now, but I'll still keep watching to the end of the season.
Muito bom
Toranaga does have an heir: Sudara. Naga Yoshi (Nagakado) is based on Matsudaira Tadayoshi.
I think the Regent brother is still in cahoots with Toranaga and all of it is just an act (until Toranaga's son accidentally killing himself lol) to basically allow Toranaga to march into Osaka castle unimpeded with his brother's army in tow.
Blackthorn walking out the meeting like that is definitely suspicious, Toranaga definitely ordered him on a secret mission like using the ship to bombard Osaka castle using the cannons (which has tremendous range btw) thus forcing Ishido to battle against Toranaga outside the castle.
Why do they have Mariko constantly ask to commit suicide when she is supposed to be a devout Catholic? She knows that is a serious sin. It seems like the only reason they bring up her Catholism is to explain why she speaks Portuguese.
Watch the movie Silence for a perspective on this.
In Japan then, and still now, religion doesnt have the same bearing as it did on Europe. Mariko still feels to be living in a state of dishonor as her family was slaughtered by the Taiko and he died before she could avenge that. So Mariko is in a tension of her faith but also her sense of duty. And ultimately Catholic doctrine never really builds roots in Japan even though it never really goes away, for example many japanese people identify as non religious but still marry at a church or hold funural at a temple. A european may say that she is no true Catholic, but that comes from your understanding of the faith. Mariko will say she is a devout Catholic and this comes from her understanding. So yes Mariko is commiting a sin by commiting suicide, but she commits a greater sin every day she is alive.
I had the exact same thought, the three hearts story for a true christian is unthinkable, or is she bluffing or sinning, but by sleeping with Blackthorne, i think she really means when asking to kill herself, which make her a christian only in apperance.
She ask for him to kill her not for her to commit suicide. The real Gracia had someone kill her, rather than commit suicide as it was against her faith
@@patrickjeffers7864Asking someone to kill you is no different than suicide in Catholic doctrine. That's why euthanasia is a sin. And the earliest versions of her death said that her husband, Tadaoki ordered the servants to kill her if her honor was threatened. That is the most accepted version.
@@TribuneAquilaShe was very devout in real life and was famous for her long theological discussions with priests. In 1595, when Tadaoki was in potential trouble, she even specifically asked her priest If suicide was acceptable. He said absolutely no. She understood that very well.
Ehhh no Nagakado is based on Matsudaira Tadayoshi another son and married to the daughter of Li Naomasa.
He was part of the first wangard to charge in Sekigahara before Masanori Fukushima. In the book Nagakado inspiration is Tadayoshi. Hidetada equivalent is only motioned in the book
All these theories out there about Blackthorne being privy to, & part of Toranaga's 4D chess plan. I take it you think no such thing... or else you would've mentioned it, right?
He cnt be part of the plan if he did not communicate to him. And if he did, Mariko would be present
@@summerville6505 Not _my_ theory. Besides, it implies that this all takes place off screen, meaning Mariko's translations too (unless John's supposed to be much better in speaking Japanese than we've been show).
Do I like the direction the show is heading????? I don't know where it's heading and that's great! This show is so dramatic and unpredictable that it keeps me glued to the screen every second. But I do think Toda has betrayed Toranaga. That's why Toranaga ordered him out of Blackthorne's home. He doesn't want him to track the comings and goings of Blackthorne.
....what about the Taiko's Son ? Toranaga is sworn to protect him.....
Hook, Line and Sinker. They create all this supposed complexity to keep you watching but none of it will pay off.
JB is almost a superfluous character here.
This version is so dark... is it ever sunny in Japan? Was there a volcanic eruption?
I'm watching it, but it's boring me.
They had to mix it and tell stories of different characters that existed in that time
Maybe toranaga's son is not dead just with the head messed up ? they could still save him somehow if they want... great armor display on the episode tho.
wtf that dude is DEAD.
everyone concentrates on the male characters - it's the female characters propel the male characters through the vagaries of fate in early Edo Period Japan. Through guile, suggestion, sex, humor,, etc., they are puppet masters in a real sense. Gin, Mariko, Fuji, Kiku, all manipulate, in some way, the men they are involved with changing the trajectory of the plot. In deconstructive terms, polarities are reversed and the female characters are able to tease out the ironies inherent in the various situations...