I ran across your video by chance and man I'm glad I did! I'm currently just waiting for the compressor. I was messing with low pressure and then started into the high pressure, basically a giant pain and waste of money. Then I saw this video and emailed aeroscience about the nozzles and now I'm just waiting for my compressor to come in tomorrow. Can't wait!
if the solenoid valves are 12V DC you can substantially prolong their lifespan by using a flyback diode. the diodes are very cheap an you can just solder them onto the relay contacts, just make sure to get the polarity right.
ua-cam.com/video/8yIw6vG29Rs/v-deo.htmlsi=iJpXloGEjllXpj86 Here im using an arduino as the microcontroller but id recommend using an esp32 since you can use wifi and your phone to control it using various applications. The arduino is great for learning though and integrating the esp32 with applications can be a bit tricky. Im also directly connecting the power supply into the solenoid on this video which is unnecessary, I can connect the powersupply to the relay and use jumper cables to power each relay and then have small wires go directly to the solenoid, so one 12v supply can power 8 solenoids easily. Also in the video I mention that the watts matter, they don’t, all that matters for the power supply is the voltage
@@beardedamerican8929 I don’t. Youre going to have to figure it out. Its quite difficult. I used an app called tuya for a lot of the smart plugs, but I think for the esp32 i used home assistant. Home assistant is pretty technical buts its amazing once you get it cause you can integrate tons of things into it, but thats a bit more advanced. I would try homelink maybe. Find the easiest ways to integrate the esp32, play with it, youll eventually figure it out. Youll need the esp32 where you can put jumper cables in it. Oh and ask gpt4 for help too! Can be very helpful for this kind of thing
Hi Ghanzo, I am trying to see if I have this right. Please correct if I am wrong. So you run a sleep timer on the Arduino that executes code to turn on a switch/relay that will open the solenoid allowing air to go through (compressor) whilst simultaneously sucking air from the line you have going to your nutrients. This is the main function of you setup correct? So how did you know/get the mixture right in your nutrient tank (big glass jar) as well as the right ratio of air to nutrients mixture? Nutrients in PPM but nozzles in microns.
The mixture density and flow rate is adjusted in two ways, the first is obvious, the psi of the compressor. The nozzles are designed to work at 45psi. If you just play with one nozzle you can dial it in and see how the spray changes at lower and higher psi. The more nozzles you add in, it becomes more complicated it becomes since the lines are different lengths etc, so it might be better to trigger all of the nozzles independently and not in unison. Ok and now onto the second parameter. You can also adjust the spray density by adjusting how short the nutrient line is. the siphon pulls the nutrients up the line with negative pressure, so the longer the line is the lower the flow. You could put in a nutrient accumulator tank, at a very low pressure, say 5 psi, and trigger two solenoid valves at once, the nutrient line and the air line. You're still going to run into the problem where further lines are going to have lower pressure then closer lines. Not sure exactly how to fix that problem, other then having some sort of regulator at each nozzle so that each nozzle gets exactly the same flow rate. Not sure if that answered your question. You want to feed the plants as much as they will take and that changes throughout the plant's life. In the beginning the plants take very little, but toward the middle and end, youll see that recycling of the nutrients diminishes faster later in the plant cycle. So the nutrient composition can be addressed independently from how the nutrients flow out of the nozzles (mixture density, feeding cycles etc). In general the nozzles operate in a pretty linear manner, they want 45 psi, and the nutrient line to be a certain distance, and if you play with the nozzle you can see for yourself where this sweet spot is to dial it in.
Best video I've seen on an aeroponic setup by far. Using the aeroscience atomizers actually simplifies the system a lot and is more true to the NASA build with the size of the droplets you're delivering. Nice work! Others have pointed out that the low pressure or "mister" setups work, but I'd be curious to see the difference in results. The other methods are essentially doing a hybrid hydroponics which isn't aeroponics. Like you said there is a scalability "issue"; however, I think that could be easily overcome. When I saw you using the atomizers my first thought for cost savings was 3D printed atomizers. Also my guess is the pressure demands don't hinder large scale aeroponics companies from using HPA. Keep it up!
I run both senninger fog nozzles, which are hydraulic, and aeroscience dry fog, and the dry fog is def way more difficult to install. Unless you are doing a little tent, it requires a complex and expensive (to install and operate) compressed air system. Mine has a 2hp motor/pump, belt driven, with a 30 gal wet tank with auto drain, running to a refrigerated air dryer, with pre and post filters for particulate and oil, then it runs to a 20 gal dry reciever tank inside the house, and then to a 0.01 micron Motorguard filter, then finally to the flower room and the valve manifolds, then the nozzles. Whereas all i need for the senninger hydralic nozzles is a relatively inexpensive stainless steel rotary vane pump (im using fluid o tech 140gph with internal bypass on a 1/3hp motor) and a few accumulators. And, btw, I do highly recommend ditching diaphragm pumps for the rotary vane "carbonator" style pumps. Every diaphragm pump ive ever had broke down on me, either by leaking to death, the non replaceable pressure switch breaking, or the motor going bad. Meanwhile, my rotary vane pump is pretty much bulletproof and can feed all 3 of my accumulators and the 72 senninger nozzles (not all at once though, because the gph flow isnt large enough, although I do have a 330gph procon pump Im going to try out next time, and that one could prob feed all 72 nozzles at once, even though I dont need it to; I have a nice little controller system I built using a Galcon AC9s and some voltage converters so I can use cheaper 12vdc vavles on it. I have 18 chambers, and I fire 6 at a time, breaking them up into 3 separate timing 'zones') I actually only use the dry fog as a supplement. Ive found that the roots really do best when you provide both sizes of droplet. Dry fog is usually around 7-10 micron, and the senningers, or tefens, have a range of 30-80 micron, with most being around 50 micron. The larger droplets help the roots grow more robust, whereas the dry fog droplets lead them to grow more fine root hairs and less robust vertical and lateral shoots. Where the dry fog really shines is after the larger root mass has developed, a couple of weeks into flower. The roots can get dense and compact when they form their root balls and mats on the chamber flloors. The 7-10 micron doplets avoid impingement on surfaces until the space has been fully saturated with the fog, so when I fog out the chambers (Im still playing around with their interval durations, but lately ive been doing 12-20 seconds on/15-30 min off) the droplets bounce around all over the place, getting deep into the dense root mass until saturation hits and the moisture finally starts being taken in by the roots. The two also completement one another as reduntant, mission critical systems. If something happens and the dry fog goes down, the hydralic mist will still be there, and vice versa. The first time I ran the dry fog (18 chambers with one aerosci nozzle each, and four senningers each) I quickly had issues with my cheap, weak compressed air system. The compressor was too small, too loud, and didnt have auto drain on its tank, and neither did my "dry" reciever tank. Both tanks filled up with water, and I mean filled up. I realized there was an issue when the compressor cycling was going on for way too long. There was no storage/surge capacity in the tanks anymore because they were filled with gallons of water. So that was sort of my wake up call that if I wanted to run dry fog in my flower room (I also use the dry fog nozzles for humidification during veg and sometimes early flower) I was gonna have to build a proper compressed air system. I did a lot of consumer research on compressors after trying to use a Cali air tools unit and finding that those "quiet" compressors are not capable of the duty cycles required for a dry fog system of this size. All piston compressors kinda suck, and none are truly reliable like rotary screw and scroll compressors, which are used when constant air supply is needed. I found that many of the companies use similar or same parts, and in some cases, its almost the exact same compressor. I recommend the Central Pneumatic 2hp 29 gal belt driven compressor from harbor freight, because you can get their extended warranty with it, so that if you beat the hell out of it and it breaks, you can just take it back and get a brand new one, and you can keep doing that until the 3 year period is up. If anyone is reading this and wants to try the dry fog nozzles on larger scales than a tent or small room, the easiest way to set the nozzles up, in terms of the nutrient solution supply, is to run an appropriately sized diaphragm pump (for really large scales, jet or centrifugal pumps are best) and put PC drip emitters, like woodpeckers (Im using 1gph emitters) on the 1/4 tubing that feeds the water side of the nozzle. Then you can easily wire the air and water solenoid valves together, so that when the controller calls a nozzle to action, both the compressed air valve and the solution supply valve open at the same time.
@@jonosterman2878 I followed everything here you wrote. Very cool you use the dry fog as a supplement, and also cool how you went down the rabbit hole of getting the air dry and purging the tanks. I also learned a lot about compressors, and what makes a good one, and I agree the cali ones are cheap and not really good for industry. The compressor that I found would be a good one to get, is the eastwood elite 30/60. What you think of that one? I also agree having the hydraulic tank valve pump setup is nice and quiet and easy, and I would probably just use that for a small home system with some really good filtration. Ideally I'd want some kind of heavy duty compressor and a huge tank run underground or outside infrequently. I ran into some compressor heat issues. Were you running the same 12v solenoid valves with the 1/4 inch fittings? I hope you have some videos up, your system sounds awesome!
@@Ghanzo Thanks man! I appreciate that! I have seen that eastwood compressor, and I wish I could have bought it and tested it out, but it was a bit out of my budget, for now anyway. I was actually considering getting it for a minute, but ultimately decided it was too expensive, and would have eaten up too much of my savings. Most of what im doing is R&D and im having to bootstrap all of it, so cost/benefit is always on my mind when it comes to equipment. Other than price, the reason I didnt get it is because I read all of the reviews for it and saw some issues with reliability that can sometimes pop up. Granted, thats true of all compressors, but for one that I have to order online, that requires a lift gate for delivery and pickup, and that costs over 2k, I felt like that was too much of a risk for me, when I really cant afford to have it not running. The reason I went with the 2hp 30gal belt driven Central Pneumatic from harbor freight is because 1) The price was the best for that specific style compressor (eastwood sells one just like it, with the same motor and pump, just slightly different tank) 2) It was available here locally at one of several HF locations, and 3) I could get that extended warranty plan for about $80, and that would allow me to easily replace it if breaks down; i wouldnt need a lift gate freight truck pick up, and I can just exchange it for a brand new one that same day. I just started using it, but so far, its really an amazing compressor. Its a little quieter in terms of db, but because the pump is driven by a belt and not the motor shaft directly, the sound frequency is different; its not as percusive, so even though its only a few decibles lower than the real noisy oiless compressors, its a much friendlier sound on the ears, so it doesnt hurt to stand a few feet away, and you can actually hear people talk. So, the temp issue; I solve that for both the dry fog and hydraulic mist by using immersion chilling systems. I recently switched my mother set up over to HPA (just hydraulic senninger nozzles), so Im 100% aero now, and I have an elaborate chiller system in there and in the flower room. I have an hpa cloner i built from a 64 site low pro ez cloner, and that sits in a tent in the closet space of the mother room. instead of having supply and return lines running across the floor, I plumbed and insulated pvc piping that wraps around walls of the room so the cloner res can also have a chiller coil in it. I use active aqua chillers (1/10hp in mother, 1/4 in flower) and instead of running the nutrient solution through them, I have those rectangular beverage coolers as reservoirs--because they are already well insulated--and all the water in there is what gets pumped through the chiller, while another pump sitting in the chiller res is circulating the coolant (just water, no glycol or alcohol) throughout the immersion coils (also known as wort chiller coils) that sit inside the nutrient tanks/reservoirs. My mother and cloner reservoirs (28 and 20 gal, respectively) both run at about 65-66f, while my flower room tank (75 gal) runs at about 63-64f. I keep it so low because of the residence (or "dwell") time of the nutrient solution inside the accumulators, and i the case of the dry fog, the insulated pvc pipeline that feeds the dual valve (air&water) manifolds. I also run a dry fog nozzle for humidification, and I have an immersion coil in that water tank as well. So the potential heat from the compressed air isnt an issue at all. Im actually using 24vac solenoids for the compressed air supply valves for the dry fog. The humidifer nozzle runs on a 12vdc solenoid valve so I can use one of the many spare 12vdc power supplies I have laying around. I just have that nozzle plugged into an Inkbird wifi humidity controller. It can be hard to find 24vac solenoid valves that dont cost over $20 a piece. I only needed six of them, so I just decided to get them anyway, because it would have cost me almost as much to get more of these little voltage converters that can take in 24vac and put out 12vdc and wire them up in a nema 4x box. The 12vdc valves usually cost between $8-12 a piece, while the 24vac valves cost $20-30 a piece.
@@Ghanzo I also have a few tips, assuming you dont already know them: One of the best ways to maintain healthy roots and avoid pathogen ingress to roots zones is to raise the ORP of your nutrient solution with HOCL (hypoclorous acid). UC roots or Clear line are both great for keeping the oxidation reduction potential above 450mv, so that the micro organisms that inevitably make their way into the nutrient reservoirs/tanks (it really is inevitable because these little fuckers are everywhere, floating on dust particles in the air, falling off our skin as we move, and being shot out of our mouths as we speak and breathe) can be tightly controlled and limited, so as to prevent their proliferation inside the nutrient solution. When that happens, you begin to get issues with biofilm, which is the arch enemy of all growers everywhere. Biofilm is very complex and easily proliferated inside irrigation systems and potable water pipelines. Google "biofilm formation" and search images. You still see an animation diagram of the steps. Theres four main steps, with many smaller ones happening at finer detail. But it all begins with "attachment" when the micro organisms literally attach themselves to any surface, be it an irrigation tube or pipe, tank or res, table or bench, or even on the plant medium (in our case the roots themselves). Once they attach to a surface, they begin to form a monolayer, matrix like structure, which then gets repeated with layer after layer, forming a microcolony. After enough layers are built up of these polysacharrides, they then detach, but not as one single organism, or even a small cluster, but instead as a massive chunch, filled with millions and millions of them. Their spread inside irrigation systems is a lot like a fungus spreads, with spores seeding new colonies. The reason why its important to use oxidizers in aero and hydro nutrient solutions is because the easiest and most effective way to battle biofilm is in preventative measures, and the gold standard for that is killing the mirco organisms inside the solution tanks, before they ever get a chance to attach to any surface, anywhere. Because once they do attach themselves, it just gets harder and harder to remove and kill as those four steps take place. The biofilm forms this protective layer, which is what gives it its gross slime like qualities. You cannot easily break through it to get to the actual organisms and kill them. Once the biofilm is fully established in an irrigation system, the only way to deal with it is by using sulfuric acid, enzymes, or both as a pre treatment to break down that outer protective layer, then come in with the potent PAA (zerotol, sanidate) solution to kill the organisms and flush them away. This is important for all growers/ cultivators, but it is so much more important for hydro and aero growers. And I would argue that you cant really succeed at aeroponics without understanding biofilm and how to deal with it, and prevent it. People often cite the small orifice of hydralic nozzles at being one of the greatest risks, but honestly, Ive never run into any nozzle clogging issues, at all. What I have run into, several times, is pathogen ingress to the root zones, by way of the nozzles. If you have a contaminated system, or even if you just neglected to clean one of the many 100 micron filters in the system, you end up misting the roots with tainted, damn near poisoned nutrient solution. Just recently I saw my newly transplanted mothers go from healthy to stalled out, with root zones affected by some pathogen that made its way through the nozzles, all because I thought I had cleaned all three of the filters in the system, when in fact I missed the one right after the accumulator, and it was allowing litte bits of this gunk to pass through. And im talking tiny, tiny bits of contamination. Nothing big enough to clog a nozzle. The roots went from pistine white to light rust color in less than two days, and thats when i realized my mistake. Luckily, all but one made it through the illness of the roots, and the rest are almost fullt recovered. There are better ways to boost ORP and DO at larger scales of cultivation, but for smaller scales, they are too expensive and cumbersome. You basically have the option of direct injection of oxygen bubbles, injection of oxygen nano bubbles, or ozone treatment. You cant use ozone on nutrient soltions because it causes the precipitation of iron and magnesium and a few other metals. It is only viable for treating tap or RO water supplies. Regular oxygen bubbles are too big and quickly rise to the surface and pop, dissipating most of the oxygen before it ever got a chance to dissolve in solution. Nano bubbles, on the other hand, are so tiny that they do not easily or quickly rise to the surface, which means they are a much better option for fertigation solution treatment. To give you an idea how small they are: 2500 nano bubbles can fit in the area the size of a grain of sand.
the water pump was being used to drain the excess nutrients that end up sitting on the bottom of the tank, to be recycled back into the nutrient tank. when you spray the roots, over time the bottom of the box ends up with the nutrients puddling, so you need to drain it some how and put it back into the nutrient tank. I was using a pump but you could get creative with it. but use a filter if you use a pump! in general its a pressure tank, a compressor, and then a valve and a nozzle. You need to find a way to program the valve, many ways to do it. if you have some questions just let me know
@@marcoshuertaplaza5214 good eye! That was a mistake. I was using the pump to drain the boxes, and I think I did that so that the drainage could pass through the filter connected to the tank. I shouldnt have used the tank connected like that. I dont think it was filling the tank though, i think it was passing by it, because the tank needs pressure to fill, theres a rubber flap at the input of that blue tank. The brown water jug is the nutrients input and you can see that all the hoses go to that, drain and the nozzles. but yeah the nozzles dont need water pressure if the source is close to the nozzles, the siphon can pull the nutes without pressure
@@Ghanzo so then no water pump needed for nozzles, right? Just a tube from reservoir to water hose of nozzle and the pressurized air and ultrasonic movement of the nozzle will pull the nutrient solution, right?
totally not necessary. I think it was in the drain loop for some reason. Looks like I was using the pump to pull from the boxes and then pulled through the filter, and pumped back into the nutrient tank
Great looking setup! How has this system been working? I have designed and 3d printed an AAA nozzle, and I get good mist (bordering on fog), but I am finding that the root chamber although wet and root development seems to be good, plant growth is slow. I also find that a single nozzle isn't giving coverage to the plants closest to the nozzle, but out of the stream aren't doing as well. Would love to have a further conversation with you about this.
You might want to increase your pressure and extend your timing so that the mist penetrates all the way though, you can also add nozzles if need be. Over feeding is not a big deal, as you can recycle the nutrients. Important to get the roots what they need. Also are you sure that your nutrients are right? You might want to run some experiments where you have different settings on different boxes. Also make sure that your nutrients don't become infested with microbes. @Jon Osterman who is in stephen jackson's comment down there, mentioned using oxidizers to maintain sterility. Read his replies, some high quality insight. I have put the aeroponic grows on pause, and I took up living soil. Might come back to aeroponics for indoor tomatoes. Very rapid growth and decent tomatoes. Very cool you printed nozzles. The ones I bought were very expensive and look to be 3d printed as well. Printing seems to be the best move.
Nice set up. I love your spray set up. That's trick. When i first wanted to start growing with areo. HPA. I purchased everything, then once I started building my systems. I said screw this. I just saw to many problem's that were going to happen. So i did some more research and decided to go with LPA. Low pressure areo. And have been growing this way for almost 10 years now. With the sprayers I use im able to use micros. With the spray system you are using I would think if you found a mfg. that only has the micros in their product, with NO other fillers, you would be ok. I use NPK INDS. micros and it has some kind of filler in it that doesn't desolve. But it doesn't glog my sprayers. Also in regards to kelp. What I use for my base nutes is a product called MAXSEA. It's a powder, in fact come to think about it. Everything I use now is a powder. But that MaxSea is a great product and it's inexpensive. I've gone with all powdered nutes. Cause it's cut my cost down to a quarter what I was spending. As you can probably guess, I'm growing cannabis. I built 4 areo systems. Each system has 2, 21 site grow chambers with 1 res. Each system is 3'x3'. And I use 1, 3'x3' led light over each system. Anyway good luck and have fun.
Hi, really nice set up, exactly what I'm planning right now,except I have designed a 3d printed tower. Any advantages of using the air compressor over a water pump like the 8800?
For a small project like yours I would not recommend a compressor. First of all it is really loud. With an 8800 you can get it to be practically silent. Also the nozzles put out a mixture of air and water, so the root chamber has to be bigger or else the roots get blown around. The benefits is the consistency of the mist. Its finer mist, and the roots love it. But you can still get great results with an 8800. You are going to need a pressure tank as well. Get the pressure up to 80-100 psi, whatever is comfortable for the tank, and hit those mister nozzles! I would use a few inside the tower, not just one at the top. Be sure to use some kind of filter pre pump. There are those mesh filters that get out sand and all of that. Also make sure you use a check valve after the pump, so that the tank doesnt push out the pump when the pump is off. Good luck!!!
@@Ghanzo thanks! After a year of posting this video... Would you say this kind of complex setup speed up production to justify parts and energy costs compare to something simpler and cheapest?
@@RufusCubano It depends on the scale. I think if you have a big enough project It makes sense to utilize air pressure into the operation. Air mixtures can also be used to spray the foliage with nutrients as well, so you can use the pressure for a lot of things. For a garage setup, no.
Your setup is impressive. I also want to build one but I want to know if its way better than hydroponics by a mile to justify all the cost and hard work of operating the aeroponic system. I was able to hear claims of 300% growth rate vs 50% from hydroponics when compared to soil. Do you think this claim is overstated?
@@christopherjohnmercado1568 It might grow faster. The root growth is really impressive with aero. You can buy nozzles for a lot cheaper than I did on amazon, so then the only cost becomes the air compressor, the solenoid valves, the power supply, and the controller. If though something goes wrong, like the nutes run dry, the plants die really fast. So they are a bit more fragile than normal. If you already have the hydro equipment than maybe its better to just go with that. If not, I think the cost is pretty much the same.
@@christopherjohnmercado1568 I believe I was doing a 5 minute off and then a 5 second on. But it should be adjusted based upon the nozzles and the age of the plant etc. 5 min off 5 second on should be good though
No I have not, but I heard that the droplet size is too small. The nutrients get sprayed onto the roots with air pressure nozzles, where the pond fogger its more like evaporation which perhaps doesn't transfer the nutrients effectively. But idk maybe it does work. I think there's something to be said about having a lot of different nozzles and spray types to get a range of droplet sizes.
@@beardedamerican8929 I’m not anymore. I noticed that the appetite changed for different stages of growth. Also I had algae growing in the nutrient tank. If you can pump out the excess nutes that build up in the plant container you can hit the roots almost constantly. The main problem is the noise from the compressor.
@@Ghanzo awesome!! I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you. I do have a way to pump out the bottom. I’m just thinking about using a concave drain to drain out to another small reservoir so I can keep an eye on the ppm in the runoff.
@@beardedamerican8929 I ended up getting into soil, but I worked at an indoor vertical farm for a while. Still think its very cool tech. What are you growing? Youre going to reuse the runoff right?
@@Ghanzo lol, soil’s been my bread and butter for a decade. Love it. And yes, I’m planning on when I test the runoff, I’ll make sure the PH is also good, and reuse it.
It's not the most elegant method, and if I did this again I would do it differently, but I used and aquatec 8800 to pull the water out the bottom of both with a y connector. You can see the two 1/4 inch tubes going in under the nozzles. The problem was that often only one tub would drain. So If I were to do it again I would have a hole in the bottom of each tub that drained to a container and then pump from that one container.
I'm interested in setting and aeroponic cloning system like yours viewed from UA-cam I would like to know if you could build one like yours for me that I can purchast
Why dont we talk about it over email so I can get a better idea of what you are looking for. Email me at my username @gmail.com and we can take it from there.
At a very large scale yes. But at a smaller scale no, because of the noise and cost. But as far as simply delivering the nutrients to the roots, this method is great.
@@bhoom2tika Sure. Email me at ghanzo@gmail.com and we can set something up
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In pressurized water aeroponic system the roots take up air in the root chamber. You don't need to supply any oxygen to water. Droplet size depends on water pressure. I have that system and the roots are hairy white same as yours
Yeah they seem to work pretty well. I think the biggest bottleneck is that the misters clog frequently, but it is nice that they are so much cheaper and that kind of system is quiet where this system is loud. I'm not entirely opposed to pressurized water systems. These misters are badass though, those plants went crazy. However for a large farm of plants, you'd need a huge air tank and a large number of those nozzles which would need to be 3d printed. I had a lot of algae growth in my system, and my nozzles never clogged once.
What stops me from using aeroponics is the noise. Cascading liquid over clay balls with a small aquarium pump works really well for me and is very quiet.
How can you say for certain that your method produces 5-50 micron sized droplets? I'm very much interested in this method, but don't wanna jump to conclusions.
Its an approximation. Its certainly smaller that a regular small outlet sprayer as it has this smoke quality to it, where a sprinkler valve doesn’t. There may be many more ways to get good results and the noise of the air compressor is an issue. Also continuous use of an air compressor gets it pretty hot and it might break down faster.
This is a really good system though I prefer it to the typical HPA systems you see in most videos and literature. I think much less potential for components to wear down and break.
You were saying that you discontinued with aeroponics and moved back to soil eh? Because of microbe action. But I presume you can supplement microbes with an aeroponic system. Even optimize it. Depending on what you're looking to do with the plant. Definitely sent me down another rabbit hole though.
@@MathieuGauthier-fj9lm you really can’t mimic soil with hydroponics when it comes to microbes and fungi Turns out that plants produce glucose (photosynthesis) and push it out their roots to feed microbes, not all of it but sometimes up to 80%. The microbes eat the sugars and in return give the plant various things. Plants even consume microbes themselves, called rhizophagy. So there is a very complex process that we reduce to a few inputs, but in nature millions of things are happening.
It went pretty well. I ate a lot of tomatoes and beans. I'm now growing with living soil, and using an 8x4 grow tent. Growing squash tomatoes kale, and loving it.
Hell yeah man, glad to see more air atomized aeroponics out there! I’ll be joining eventually I think the sterile vs benes is a very interesting topic, however from most I have heard, they had trouble running organics... I would love to some how figure out how to make that work tho... Your fog/mist looks great... you may want to make two nutrient reservoirs tho as beans and tomatoes may potentially each have their own optimal ph and nutrients ratios... Also, I know a lot of people have shot for around 1 sec on and 1.5 min off, however, there are some calculations for obtaining a certain flow for a given chamber size... You are way ahead of me so I can’t really say much other than great job and look forward to your updates! 👍🏻👏🏻
I notice you have the booster/accumulator pump system as well as a separated air/nutrient pump system. Is that from a previous attempt with the cheaper nozzles being repurposed as the scavenging pump? Or maybe it's a secondary backup? From my understanding the cheaper(less expensive than Aeroscience anyway) nozzles on amazon can get down to around 25-30 microns when paired with one of the booster pumps (~100psi). This seems to be considerable reduction in cost as well as a more compact system with a steep disadvantage in the pump being more prone to failure(pressurizes nutrient rather than air) as well as less oxygen(larger particles and you're not feeding air). I'm a bit torn between the two systems since I could essentially build the cheaper system on the cost of a few of those higher quality nozzles, and is the likely maintenance/replacement point. On the other hand a few pump breakdowns and a need to vent the roots for more oxygen would be on the same order of cost, but that's not a given and not up front costs.
Yeah you could try a water pump tank method with air being added with a cheap air pump. Also the compressor is loud. So another benefit of the water pump method is that they are very quiet. My water pump is being used to drain the system. I might run a test to see a side to side comparison between the two methods. The nozzles and the compressor cost around 350$ where the water pump tank costs around $200 so the costs aren’t too different.
@@Ghanzo www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017HTWMHK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=A3JVO9PJXTSCRK&psc=1 These Tefen nozzles were the type I was thinking of getting based on some youtube reviews. Just in case you decide to go that route. Looks like all you would need is the 1/4" to quick disconnect adapter and the nozzles to do the test.
@@Ghanzo what's up bro? I'm positive your set up is just as good, if not better than using the normal HPA set up. I don't forsee any problems with your set up. Except for electrical outages. And you can get around that with a little solor set up. In regards to everyone worrying about oxygen to your root zone. Lets think about this. You have a air line blowing oxygen into your grow chambers. Dah, what's the problem? Plus if you are draining your grow chambers back into your nute res. you are collecting plenty of oxygen with that circulation. Another thing i noticed is, you might want to black out your nute res. You should keep light from getting in there. Plus it will keep your temperature down. One more thing, there are pros and cons to this debate. Micros or sterile ? The way I look at it is. Which one is natural and which one isn't ? I have had NO problems going with micros. Even with during the summer sometimes my nute solution gets a little warm. But everyone has their own opinion about everything. Which is fine. You just need to find what works for you and go with it. Like I stated before I've been growing this way for almost 10 years now. And I'm just letting you know what works for me in my setup. It doesn't mean it will work in your setup. But I don't see why it wouldn't. Oh, I'm sure you are checking your pH and ppms. And your humidity to temps. So your plants get the correct evaporation pressure. Later... ASS OG. Areo Systems Sea Of Green.
@@Ghanzo Yes my bad, it's not Ultraponie, thats will need Ultrason gear. But i think we can call it Frogponie to. I just discover High pressur aeroponic system with your video. Very interesting.
Can you source that inference? The original nasa papers recommended a droplet size of 5-50 microns, which isn't achieved without aerosolizing the water. Aerosol is a pressurized mixture of air and water, that's why its called "aeroponics". People get fine results without air compression however. If you can source the schematics for NASA's present growing methods I'd also be interested in seeing them.
Nozzles don’t clog unless yo use organic inputs or don’t use 200 mesh filters. Try senningers. They won’t clog. You need those larger droplets to develop the roots, then you can bring in the dry fog. With just dry fog, you won’t get much lateral root growth and will see more stringy with fine hairs. You want it as a robust mass with fine hair. Get some senningers and a little pump and try using both mist and fog. Trust me, it works much better.
@@jonosterman2878 hi! which senningers nozzles do you recommend? i saw their catalog of misters and foggers but couldn't find any information regarding dropplet size and also i got a bit confused about the applications of the nozzles. Thanks for the info.
I could see that working to some degree, though the more I learn about plants, the more that I believe that microbes are doing most of the work. If you spray microbes, theyre not likely to survive for very long. Which is why I've moved to soil since I put out this video. I think inert compost teas will have some benefit, but I'm not convinced the plants will have complete nutrition from compost tea
How plants collect nutrients is a very complicated and understudied phenomenon. In general it works by producing saps and sugars on the surfaces of the plant and roots, that microorganisms feed on. The microorganisms provide the nutrients to the plant in various ways, but most amazing to me, the plant actually eats some of that biology.
just did a run in my low pressure aero system, started off great, then they got a mucus buildup and nute locked then started dying. instagram.com/aeroboone/ I could try another run with adding more oxygen direct to the roots with an air pump but I figured they got enough with the low pressure sprayers, what do you think? Maybe it was an anaerobic issue. Nice system tho enjoyed the vid.
Hard to say. There are hundreds of variables. Could be a contamination issue. Might want to do a deep clean of the equipment between grows. Oxygen certainly helps keep the right kinds of things away thats why I like the high pressure nozzles with the small droplets. Were your nozzles clogged? Were you draining well? How about the airflow in the grow room itself? Nice page! Love Maine. Lot of growers up there and Vermont.
hehe. It's simple in that its mostly analog. Maybe its not ideal for home grows though. I think if I were to do it right I would get a really nice compressor and bury it underground and get a massive tank so I could run the compressor on less intervals. That thing ends up being kind of loud and annoying though, and even two nozzles use surprisingly a lot of air. But I tell you man, the roots go insane under those nozzles. Then if you want to go the next step, you start buying probes and sensors, and route all that data to a private server, and start automating processes like, "if the tent floods do this", " if tank is at this psi, run compressor", which is really one step away from machine learning automation which is what its like at the top.
Wow this is amazing. I’ve been searching for this exact video for a while and you nailed it. Which I’d been recommended it sooner UA-cam Algorithm..
I ran across your video by chance and man I'm glad I did! I'm currently just waiting for the compressor. I was messing with low pressure and then started into the high pressure, basically a giant pain and waste of money. Then I saw this video and emailed aeroscience about the nozzles and now I'm just waiting for my compressor to come in tomorrow. Can't wait!
Nice! Let me know how it goes. How big is your setup? 4x4?
2x4. Just got the compressor if I can figure out how to post a pic I will to see what you think.
Ya I cant post a pic to comments but I just tested it and its awesome
@@reds815 haha awesome!
I do enjoy a good challenge.
The smartest video on the subject.
if the solenoid valves are 12V DC you can substantially prolong their lifespan by using a flyback diode.
the diodes are very cheap an you can just solder them onto the relay contacts, just make sure to get the polarity right.
Do you know how to wire multiple solenoids with that relay? I want to use more than 1, use a single power cord, and wire them in parallel.
ua-cam.com/video/8yIw6vG29Rs/v-deo.htmlsi=iJpXloGEjllXpj86
Here im using an arduino as the microcontroller but id recommend using an esp32 since you can use wifi and your phone to control it using various applications.
The arduino is great for learning though and integrating the esp32 with applications can be a bit tricky.
Im also directly connecting the power supply into the solenoid on this video which is unnecessary, I can connect the powersupply to the relay and use jumper cables to power each relay and then have small wires go directly to the solenoid, so one 12v supply can power 8 solenoids easily.
Also in the video I mention that the watts matter, they don’t, all that matters for the power supply is the voltage
@@Ghanzo awesome!! Thank you 🙏
I edited that response fyi, just making sure you see the edited version there
@@Ghanzo do you have a recommended video on how to use the esp32?
@@beardedamerican8929 I don’t. Youre going to have to figure it out. Its quite difficult. I used an app called tuya for a lot of the smart plugs, but I think for the esp32 i used home assistant. Home assistant is pretty technical buts its amazing once you get it cause you can integrate tons of things into it, but thats a bit more advanced. I would try homelink maybe. Find the easiest ways to integrate the esp32, play with it, youll eventually figure it out. Youll need the esp32 where you can put jumper cables in it.
Oh and ask gpt4 for help too! Can be very helpful for this kind of thing
Hi Ghanzo,
I am trying to see if I have this right. Please correct if I am wrong. So you run a sleep timer on the Arduino that executes code to turn on a switch/relay that will open the solenoid allowing air to go through (compressor) whilst simultaneously sucking air from the line you have going to your nutrients. This is the main function of you setup correct?
So how did you know/get the mixture right in your nutrient tank (big glass jar) as well as the right ratio of air to nutrients mixture? Nutrients in PPM but nozzles in microns.
The mixture density and flow rate is adjusted in two ways, the first is obvious, the psi of the compressor. The nozzles are designed to work at 45psi. If you just play with one nozzle you can dial it in and see how the spray changes at lower and higher psi. The more nozzles you add in, it becomes more complicated it becomes since the lines are different lengths etc, so it might be better to trigger all of the nozzles independently and not in unison. Ok and now onto the second parameter. You can also adjust the spray density by adjusting how short the nutrient line is. the siphon pulls the nutrients up the line with negative pressure, so the longer the line is the lower the flow.
You could put in a nutrient accumulator tank, at a very low pressure, say 5 psi, and trigger two solenoid valves at once, the nutrient line and the air line. You're still going to run into the problem where further lines are going to have lower pressure then closer lines. Not sure exactly how to fix that problem, other then having some sort of regulator at each nozzle so that each nozzle gets exactly the same flow rate.
Not sure if that answered your question. You want to feed the plants as much as they will take and that changes throughout the plant's life. In the beginning the plants take very little, but toward the middle and end, youll see that recycling of the nutrients diminishes faster later in the plant cycle. So the nutrient composition can be addressed independently from how the nutrients flow out of the nozzles (mixture density, feeding cycles etc). In general the nozzles operate in a pretty linear manner, they want 45 psi, and the nutrient line to be a certain distance, and if you play with the nozzle you can see for yourself where this sweet spot is to dial it in.
Best video I've seen on an aeroponic setup by far. Using the aeroscience atomizers actually simplifies the system a lot and is more true to the NASA build with the size of the droplets you're delivering. Nice work!
Others have pointed out that the low pressure or "mister" setups work, but I'd be curious to see the difference in results. The other methods are essentially doing a hybrid hydroponics which isn't aeroponics. Like you said there is a scalability "issue"; however, I think that could be easily overcome. When I saw you using the atomizers my first thought for cost savings was 3D printed atomizers. Also my guess is the pressure demands don't hinder large scale aeroponics companies from using HPA.
Keep it up!
Thanks! Greatly appreciated
I run both senninger fog nozzles, which are hydraulic, and aeroscience dry fog, and the dry fog is def way more difficult to install. Unless you are doing a little tent, it requires a complex and expensive (to install and operate) compressed air system. Mine has a 2hp motor/pump, belt driven, with a 30 gal wet tank with auto drain, running to a refrigerated air dryer, with pre and post filters for particulate and oil, then it runs to a 20 gal dry reciever tank inside the house, and then to a 0.01 micron Motorguard filter, then finally to the flower room and the valve manifolds, then the nozzles. Whereas all i need for the senninger hydralic nozzles is a relatively inexpensive stainless steel rotary vane pump (im using fluid o tech 140gph with internal bypass on a 1/3hp motor) and a few accumulators. And, btw, I do highly recommend ditching diaphragm pumps for the rotary vane "carbonator" style pumps. Every diaphragm pump ive ever had broke down on me, either by leaking to death, the non replaceable pressure switch breaking, or the motor going bad. Meanwhile, my rotary vane pump is pretty much bulletproof and can feed all 3 of my accumulators and the 72 senninger nozzles (not all at once though, because the gph flow isnt large enough, although I do have a 330gph procon pump Im going to try out next time, and that one could prob feed all 72 nozzles at once, even though I dont need it to; I have a nice little controller system I built using a Galcon AC9s and some voltage converters so I can use cheaper 12vdc vavles on it. I have 18 chambers, and I fire 6 at a time, breaking them up into 3 separate timing 'zones')
I actually only use the dry fog as a supplement. Ive found that the roots really do best when you provide both sizes of droplet. Dry fog is usually around 7-10 micron, and the senningers, or tefens, have a range of 30-80 micron, with most being around 50 micron. The larger droplets help the roots grow more robust, whereas the dry fog droplets lead them to grow more fine root hairs and less robust vertical and lateral shoots. Where the dry fog really shines is after the larger root mass has developed, a couple of weeks into flower. The roots can get dense and compact when they form their root balls and mats on the chamber flloors. The 7-10 micron doplets avoid impingement on surfaces until the space has been fully saturated with the fog, so when I fog out the chambers (Im still playing around with their interval durations, but lately ive been doing 12-20 seconds on/15-30 min off) the droplets bounce around all over the place, getting deep into the dense root mass until saturation hits and the moisture finally starts being taken in by the roots.
The two also completement one another as reduntant, mission critical systems. If something happens and the dry fog goes down, the hydralic mist will still be there, and vice versa.
The first time I ran the dry fog (18 chambers with one aerosci nozzle each, and four senningers each) I quickly had issues with my cheap, weak compressed air system. The compressor was too small, too loud, and didnt have auto drain on its tank, and neither did my "dry" reciever tank. Both tanks filled up with water, and I mean filled up. I realized there was an issue when the compressor cycling was going on for way too long. There was no storage/surge capacity in the tanks anymore because they were filled with gallons of water. So that was sort of my wake up call that if I wanted to run dry fog in my flower room (I also use the dry fog nozzles for humidification during veg and sometimes early flower) I was gonna have to build a proper compressed air system.
I did a lot of consumer research on compressors after trying to use a Cali air tools unit and finding that those "quiet" compressors are not capable of the duty cycles required for a dry fog system of this size. All piston compressors kinda suck, and none are truly reliable like rotary screw and scroll compressors, which are used when constant air supply is needed. I found that many of the companies use similar or same parts, and in some cases, its almost the exact same compressor. I recommend the Central Pneumatic 2hp 29 gal belt driven compressor from harbor freight, because you can get their extended warranty with it, so that if you beat the hell out of it and it breaks, you can just take it back and get a brand new one, and you can keep doing that until the 3 year period is up.
If anyone is reading this and wants to try the dry fog nozzles on larger scales than a tent or small room, the easiest way to set the nozzles up, in terms of the nutrient solution supply, is to run an appropriately sized diaphragm pump (for really large scales, jet or centrifugal pumps are best) and put PC drip emitters, like woodpeckers (Im using 1gph emitters) on the 1/4 tubing that feeds the water side of the nozzle. Then you can easily wire the air and water solenoid valves together, so that when the controller calls a nozzle to action, both the compressed air valve and the solution supply valve open at the same time.
@@jonosterman2878 I followed everything here you wrote. Very cool you use the dry fog as a supplement, and also cool how you went down the rabbit hole of getting the air dry and purging the tanks. I also learned a lot about compressors, and what makes a good one, and I agree the cali ones are cheap and not really good for industry. The compressor that I found would be a good one to get, is the eastwood elite 30/60. What you think of that one? I also agree having the hydraulic tank valve pump setup is nice and quiet and easy, and I would probably just use that for a small home system with some really good filtration. Ideally I'd want some kind of heavy duty compressor and a huge tank run underground or outside infrequently. I ran into some compressor heat issues.
Were you running the same 12v solenoid valves with the 1/4 inch fittings?
I hope you have some videos up, your system sounds awesome!
@@Ghanzo Thanks man! I appreciate that! I have seen that eastwood compressor, and I wish I could have bought it and tested it out, but it was a bit out of my budget, for now anyway. I was actually considering getting it for a minute, but ultimately decided it was too expensive, and would have eaten up too much of my savings. Most of what im doing is R&D and im having to bootstrap all of it, so cost/benefit is always on my mind when it comes to equipment. Other than price, the reason I didnt get it is because I read all of the reviews for it and saw some issues with reliability that can sometimes pop up. Granted, thats true of all compressors, but for one that I have to order online, that requires a lift gate for delivery and pickup, and that costs over 2k, I felt like that was too much of a risk for me, when I really cant afford to have it not running.
The reason I went with the 2hp 30gal belt driven Central Pneumatic from harbor freight is because 1) The price was the best for that specific style compressor (eastwood sells one just like it, with the same motor and pump, just slightly different tank) 2) It was available here locally at one of several HF locations, and 3) I could get that extended warranty plan for about $80, and that would allow me to easily replace it if breaks down; i wouldnt need a lift gate freight truck pick up, and I can just exchange it for a brand new one that same day. I just started using it, but so far, its really an amazing compressor. Its a little quieter in terms of db, but because the pump is driven by a belt and not the motor shaft directly, the sound frequency is different; its not as percusive, so even though its only a few decibles lower than the real noisy oiless compressors, its a much friendlier sound on the ears, so it doesnt hurt to stand a few feet away, and you can actually hear people talk.
So, the temp issue; I solve that for both the dry fog and hydraulic mist by using immersion chilling systems. I recently switched my mother set up over to HPA (just hydraulic senninger nozzles), so Im 100% aero now, and I have an elaborate chiller system in there and in the flower room. I have an hpa cloner i built from a 64 site low pro ez cloner, and that sits in a tent in the closet space of the mother room. instead of having supply and return lines running across the floor, I plumbed and insulated pvc piping that wraps around walls of the room so the cloner res can also have a chiller coil in it. I use active aqua chillers (1/10hp in mother, 1/4 in flower) and instead of running the nutrient solution through them, I have those rectangular beverage coolers as reservoirs--because they are already well insulated--and all the water in there is what gets pumped through the chiller, while another pump sitting in the chiller res is circulating the coolant (just water, no glycol or alcohol) throughout the immersion coils (also known as wort chiller coils) that sit inside the nutrient tanks/reservoirs. My mother and cloner reservoirs (28 and 20 gal, respectively) both run at about 65-66f, while my flower room tank (75 gal) runs at about 63-64f. I keep it so low because of the residence (or "dwell") time of the nutrient solution inside the accumulators, and i the case of the dry fog, the insulated pvc pipeline that feeds the dual valve (air&water) manifolds. I also run a dry fog nozzle for humidification, and I have an immersion coil in that water tank as well. So the potential heat from the compressed air isnt an issue at all.
Im actually using 24vac solenoids for the compressed air supply valves for the dry fog. The humidifer nozzle runs on a 12vdc solenoid valve so I can use one of the many spare 12vdc power supplies I have laying around. I just have that nozzle plugged into an Inkbird wifi humidity controller. It can be hard to find 24vac solenoid valves that dont cost over $20 a piece. I only needed six of them, so I just decided to get them anyway, because it would have cost me almost as much to get more of these little voltage converters that can take in 24vac and put out 12vdc and wire them up in a nema 4x box. The 12vdc valves usually cost between $8-12 a piece, while the 24vac valves cost $20-30 a piece.
@@Ghanzo I also have a few tips, assuming you dont already know them: One of the best ways to maintain healthy roots and avoid pathogen ingress to roots zones is to raise the ORP of your nutrient solution with HOCL (hypoclorous acid). UC roots or Clear line are both great for keeping the oxidation reduction potential above 450mv, so that the micro organisms that inevitably make their way into the nutrient reservoirs/tanks (it really is inevitable because these little fuckers are everywhere, floating on dust particles in the air, falling off our skin as we move, and being shot out of our mouths as we speak and breathe) can be tightly controlled and limited, so as to prevent their proliferation inside the nutrient solution. When that happens, you begin to get issues with biofilm, which is the arch enemy of all growers everywhere.
Biofilm is very complex and easily proliferated inside irrigation systems and potable water pipelines. Google "biofilm formation" and search images. You still see an animation diagram of the steps. Theres four main steps, with many smaller ones happening at finer detail. But it all begins with "attachment" when the micro organisms literally attach themselves to any surface, be it an irrigation tube or pipe, tank or res, table or bench, or even on the plant medium (in our case the roots themselves). Once they attach to a surface, they begin to form a monolayer, matrix like structure, which then gets repeated with layer after layer, forming a microcolony. After enough layers are built up of these polysacharrides, they then detach, but not as one single organism, or even a small cluster, but instead as a massive chunch, filled with millions and millions of them. Their spread inside irrigation systems is a lot like a fungus spreads, with spores seeding new colonies.
The reason why its important to use oxidizers in aero and hydro nutrient solutions is because the easiest and most effective way to battle biofilm is in preventative measures, and the gold standard for that is killing the mirco organisms inside the solution tanks, before they ever get a chance to attach to any surface, anywhere. Because once they do attach themselves, it just gets harder and harder to remove and kill as those four steps take place. The biofilm forms this protective layer, which is what gives it its gross slime like qualities. You cannot easily break through it to get to the actual organisms and kill them. Once the biofilm is fully established in an irrigation system, the only way to deal with it is by using sulfuric acid, enzymes, or both as a pre treatment to break down that outer protective layer, then come in with the potent PAA (zerotol, sanidate) solution to kill the organisms and flush them away.
This is important for all growers/ cultivators, but it is so much more important for hydro and aero growers. And I would argue that you cant really succeed at aeroponics without understanding biofilm and how to deal with it, and prevent it.
People often cite the small orifice of hydralic nozzles at being one of the greatest risks, but honestly, Ive never run into any nozzle clogging issues, at all. What I have run into, several times, is pathogen ingress to the root zones, by way of the nozzles. If you have a contaminated system, or even if you just neglected to clean one of the many 100 micron filters in the system, you end up misting the roots with tainted, damn near poisoned nutrient solution. Just recently I saw my newly transplanted mothers go from healthy to stalled out, with root zones affected by some pathogen that made its way through the nozzles, all because I thought I had cleaned all three of the filters in the system, when in fact I missed the one right after the accumulator, and it was allowing litte bits of this gunk to pass through. And im talking tiny, tiny bits of contamination. Nothing big enough to clog a nozzle. The roots went from pistine white to light rust color in less than two days, and thats when i realized my mistake. Luckily, all but one made it through the illness of the roots, and the rest are almost fullt recovered.
There are better ways to boost ORP and DO at larger scales of cultivation, but for smaller scales, they are too expensive and cumbersome. You basically have the option of direct injection of oxygen bubbles, injection of oxygen nano bubbles, or ozone treatment. You cant use ozone on nutrient soltions because it causes the precipitation of iron and magnesium and a few other metals. It is only viable for treating tap or RO water supplies. Regular oxygen bubbles are too big and quickly rise to the surface and pop, dissipating most of the oxygen before it ever got a chance to dissolve in solution. Nano bubbles, on the other hand, are so tiny that they do not easily or quickly rise to the surface, which means they are a much better option for fertigation solution treatment. To give you an idea how small they are: 2500 nano bubbles can fit in the area the size of a grain of sand.
Please go through the water pump side of this. And well the whole thing from scratch. You’re awesome how you have tackled it without any hesitation
the water pump was being used to drain the excess nutrients that end up sitting on the bottom of the tank, to be recycled back into the nutrient tank.
when you spray the roots, over time the bottom of the box ends up with the nutrients puddling, so you need to drain it some how and put it back into the nutrient tank. I was using a pump but you could get creative with it. but use a filter if you use a pump!
in general its a pressure tank, a compressor, and then a valve and a nozzle. You need to find a way to program the valve, many ways to do it.
if you have some questions just let me know
Very helpful, thanks for sharing 👍
Sure thing!
Nice work bro
Hi, how much water pressure did you set? You onky talk about air pressure, thanks!!
No water pressure. It comes out as a siphon. If the nozzles are much higher or you have a lot of them you might have to put in a bit of pressure.
@@Ghanzo and then why you use a big pressure water pump?
Also seems that you have a water accumulator tank
@@marcoshuertaplaza5214 good eye! That was a mistake. I was using the pump to drain the boxes, and I think I did that so that the drainage could pass through the filter connected to the tank. I shouldnt have used the tank connected like that. I dont think it was filling the tank though, i think it was passing by it, because the tank needs pressure to fill, theres a rubber flap at the input of that blue tank. The brown water jug is the nutrients input and you can see that all the hoses go to that, drain and the nozzles. but yeah the nozzles dont need water pressure if the source is close to the nozzles, the siphon can pull the nutes without pressure
@@Ghanzo so then no water pump needed for nozzles, right? Just a tube from reservoir to water hose of nozzle and the pressurized air and ultrasonic movement of the nozzle will pull the nutrient solution, right?
How does the accumulator tank fit into the equation?
totally not necessary. I think it was in the drain loop for some reason. Looks like I was using the pump to pull from the boxes and then pulled through the filter, and pumped back into the nutrient tank
Why have you stopped this subject? This is a really clean set-up!
@@unknown-ch9tb thanks man! Ill get some more videos up soon!
@@GhanzoI realy hope to see your latest update.. Great work man
Great looking setup! How has this system been working? I have designed and 3d printed an AAA nozzle, and I get good mist (bordering on fog), but I am finding that the root chamber although wet and root development seems to be good, plant growth is slow. I also find that a single nozzle isn't giving coverage to the plants closest to the nozzle, but out of the stream aren't doing as well. Would love to have a further conversation with you about this.
You might want to increase your pressure and extend your timing so that the mist penetrates all the way though, you can also add nozzles if need be. Over feeding is not a big deal, as you can recycle the nutrients. Important to get the roots what they need. Also are you sure that your nutrients are right? You might want to run some experiments where you have different settings on different boxes. Also make sure that your nutrients don't become infested with microbes. @Jon Osterman who is in stephen jackson's comment down there, mentioned using oxidizers to maintain sterility. Read his replies, some high quality insight.
I have put the aeroponic grows on pause, and I took up living soil. Might come back to aeroponics for indoor tomatoes. Very rapid growth and decent tomatoes.
Very cool you printed nozzles. The ones I bought were very expensive and look to be 3d printed as well. Printing seems to be the best move.
Nice set up.
I love your spray set up.
That's trick.
When i first wanted to start growing with areo. HPA.
I purchased everything, then once I started building my systems.
I said screw this.
I just saw to many problem's that were going to happen.
So i did some more research and decided to go with LPA. Low pressure areo.
And have been growing this way for almost 10 years now.
With the sprayers I use im able to use micros.
With the spray system you are using I would think if you found a mfg. that only has the micros in their product, with NO other fillers, you would be ok.
I use NPK INDS. micros and it has some kind of filler in it that doesn't desolve.
But it doesn't glog my sprayers.
Also in regards to kelp.
What I use for my base nutes is a product called
MAXSEA.
It's a powder, in fact come to think about it.
Everything I use now is a powder.
But that MaxSea is a great product and it's inexpensive.
I've gone with all powdered nutes. Cause it's cut my cost down to a quarter what I was spending.
As you can probably guess, I'm growing cannabis.
I built 4 areo systems.
Each system has 2, 21 site grow chambers with 1 res.
Each system is 3'x3'.
And I use 1, 3'x3' led light over each system.
Anyway good luck and have fun.
just tried my first experiment with organic LPA...check my above post n link...would love for tips.
What type of Nozzles do you use? Cheers
Hi, really nice set up, exactly what I'm planning right now,except I have designed a 3d printed tower. Any advantages of using the air compressor over a water pump like the 8800?
For a small project like yours I would not recommend a compressor. First of all it is really loud. With an 8800 you can get it to be practically silent. Also the nozzles put out a mixture of air and water, so the root chamber has to be bigger or else the roots get blown around. The benefits is the consistency of the mist. Its finer mist, and the roots love it. But you can still get great results with an 8800. You are going to need a pressure tank as well. Get the pressure up to 80-100 psi, whatever is comfortable for the tank, and hit those mister nozzles! I would use a few inside the tower, not just one at the top. Be sure to use some kind of filter pre pump. There are those mesh filters that get out sand and all of that. Also make sure you use a check valve after the pump, so that the tank doesnt push out the pump when the pump is off. Good luck!!!
@@Ghanzo thanks! After a year of posting this video... Would you say this kind of complex setup speed up production to justify parts and energy costs compare to something simpler and cheapest?
@@RufusCubano It depends on the scale. I think if you have a big enough project It makes sense to utilize air pressure into the operation. Air mixtures can also be used to spray the foliage with nutrients as well, so you can use the pressure for a lot of things. For a garage setup, no.
How much faster do plants grow compared to a hydroponic system?
They grew very fast, though I'm not sure it would be considerably faster than hydroponics, though, I have never tried
Your setup is impressive. I also want to build one but I want to know if its way better than hydroponics by a mile to justify all the cost and hard work of operating the aeroponic system.
I was able to hear claims of 300% growth rate vs 50% from hydroponics when compared to soil. Do you think this claim is overstated?
@@christopherjohnmercado1568 It might grow faster. The root growth is really impressive with aero. You can buy nozzles for a lot cheaper than I did on amazon, so then the only cost becomes the air compressor, the solenoid valves, the power supply, and the controller. If though something goes wrong, like the nutes run dry, the plants die really fast. So they are a bit more fragile than normal. If you already have the hydro equipment than maybe its better to just go with that. If not, I think the cost is pretty much the same.
@@GhanzoI see. I want to do a side by side comparison of the 2 systems. What misting interval do you recommend?
@@christopherjohnmercado1568 I believe I was doing a 5 minute off and then a 5 second on. But it should be adjusted based upon the nozzles and the age of the plant etc. 5 min off 5 second on should be good though
Have you ever tried using a pond fogger,? ( basically its a scaled -up , ultrasonic humidifier
No I have not, but I heard that the droplet size is too small. The nutrients get sprayed onto the roots with air pressure nozzles, where the pond fogger its more like evaporation which perhaps doesn't transfer the nutrients effectively. But idk maybe it does work. I think there's something to be said about having a lot of different nozzles and spray types to get a range of droplet sizes.
Are you still using this system? If you are, is your timing still the same?
@@beardedamerican8929 I’m not anymore. I noticed that the appetite changed for different stages of growth. Also I had algae growing in the nutrient tank. If you can pump out the excess nutes that build up in the plant container you can hit the roots almost constantly. The main problem is the noise from the compressor.
@@Ghanzo awesome!! I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you. I do have a way to pump out the bottom. I’m just thinking about using a concave drain to drain out to another small reservoir so I can keep an eye on the ppm in the runoff.
@@beardedamerican8929 I ended up getting into soil, but I worked at an indoor vertical farm for a while. Still think its very cool tech. What are you growing? Youre going to reuse the runoff right?
@@Ghanzo lol, soil’s been my bread and butter for a decade. Love it. And yes, I’m planning on when I test the runoff, I’ll make sure the PH is also good, and reuse it.
Amazing. May I ask how do u drain the water accumulated inside the tub?
It's not the most elegant method, and if I did this again I would do it differently, but I used and aquatec 8800 to pull the water out the bottom of both with a y connector. You can see the two 1/4 inch tubes going in under the nozzles. The problem was that often only one tub would drain. So If I were to do it again I would have a hole in the bottom of each tub that drained to a container and then pump from that one container.
Thanks for sharing how you set it up and also your thoughts on improvement. That is really helpful 😊👍🏼👍🏼
I'm interested in setting and aeroponic cloning system like yours viewed from UA-cam I would like to know if you could build one like yours for me that I can purchast
Why dont we talk about it over email so I can get a better idea of what you are looking for. Email me at my username @gmail.com and we can take it from there.
Thanks for a reply ,may i ask you one thing ? 👍 ,Do you think HP Aeroponics is the Best of all Soil Less grow systems ?
At a very large scale yes. But at a smaller scale no, because of the noise and cost. But as far as simply delivering the nutrients to the roots, this method is great.
@@Ghanzo may i get a paid consultancy from your experiences in a true HP Aeroponics setup ?
@@bhoom2tika Sure. Email me at ghanzo@gmail.com and we can set something up
In pressurized water aeroponic system the roots take up air in the root chamber. You don't need to supply any oxygen to water. Droplet size depends on water pressure. I have that system and the roots are hairy white same as yours
Yeah they seem to work pretty well. I think the biggest bottleneck is that the misters clog frequently, but it is nice that they are so much cheaper and that kind of system is quiet where this system is loud. I'm not entirely opposed to pressurized water systems. These misters are badass though, those plants went crazy.
However for a large farm of plants, you'd need a huge air tank and a large number of those nozzles which would need to be 3d printed. I had a lot of algae growth in my system, and my nozzles never clogged once.
What stops me from using aeroponics is the noise. Cascading liquid over clay balls with a small aquarium pump works really well for me and is very quiet.
@@HereIsmarcus yes very loud, also air compression is energy intensive and the compressor produces a good amount of heat
looks awesome! what material are the boxes made out of you are using?
standard cago tote that you get at home depot, some sort of plastic
@@Ghanzo pve, pc, pp, pp-c? that was kidna the question ;)
How can you say for certain that your method produces 5-50 micron sized droplets? I'm very much interested in this method, but don't wanna jump to conclusions.
Its an approximation. Its certainly smaller that a regular small outlet sprayer as it has this smoke quality to it, where a sprinkler valve doesn’t.
There may be many more ways to get good results and the noise of the air compressor is an issue. Also continuous use of an air compressor gets it pretty hot and it might break down faster.
Buy a compressor with a large tank so it has more time to cool down in between?
This is a really good system though I prefer it to the typical HPA systems you see in most videos and literature. I think much less potential for components to wear down and break.
You were saying that you discontinued with aeroponics and moved back to soil eh? Because of microbe action. But I presume you can supplement microbes with an aeroponic system. Even optimize it. Depending on what you're looking to do with the plant. Definitely sent me down another rabbit hole though.
@@MathieuGauthier-fj9lm you really can’t mimic soil with hydroponics when it comes to microbes and fungi
Turns out that plants produce glucose (photosynthesis) and push it out their roots to feed microbes, not all of it but sometimes up to 80%. The microbes eat the sugars and in return give the plant various things. Plants even consume microbes themselves, called rhizophagy. So there is a very complex process that we reduce to a few inputs, but in nature millions of things are happening.
this is great dude
Are u ever making a vid on how u installed the solenoid relay , adruino and pump instead of showing it off??
No but if you have any specific questions I can answer them.
@@Ghanzo you need to make a video showing how you hook everything up.
Please
@@assog5737 Ok I will do it
This video is 5 months old ,how is the plant growth ?
It went pretty well. I ate a lot of tomatoes and beans. I'm now growing with living soil, and using an 8x4 grow tent. Growing squash tomatoes kale, and loving it.
Great video. Almost bailed early because of the music.
You don't like that song? I love it. It's Anomalie and The Kount
Hell yeah man, glad to see more air atomized aeroponics out there! I’ll be joining eventually
I think the sterile vs benes is a very interesting topic, however from most I have heard, they had trouble running organics... I would love to some how figure out how to make that work tho...
Your fog/mist looks great... you may want to make two nutrient reservoirs tho as beans and tomatoes may potentially each have their own optimal ph and nutrients ratios...
Also, I know a lot of people have shot for around 1 sec on and 1.5 min off, however, there are some calculations for obtaining a certain flow for a given chamber size...
You are way ahead of me so I can’t really say much other than great job and look forward to your updates! 👍🏻👏🏻
I notice you have the booster/accumulator pump system as well as a separated air/nutrient pump system. Is that from a previous attempt with the cheaper nozzles being repurposed as the scavenging pump? Or maybe it's a secondary backup? From my understanding the cheaper(less expensive than Aeroscience anyway) nozzles on amazon can get down to around 25-30 microns when paired with one of the booster pumps (~100psi). This seems to be considerable reduction in cost as well as a more compact system with a steep disadvantage in the pump being more prone to failure(pressurizes nutrient rather than air) as well as less oxygen(larger particles and you're not feeding air). I'm a bit torn between the two systems since I could essentially build the cheaper system on the cost of a few of those higher quality nozzles, and is the likely maintenance/replacement point. On the other hand a few pump breakdowns and a need to vent the roots for more oxygen would be on the same order of cost, but that's not a given and not up front costs.
Yeah you could try a water pump tank method with air being added with a cheap air pump. Also the compressor is loud. So another benefit of the water pump method is that they are very quiet.
My water pump is being used to drain the system. I might run a test to see a side to side comparison between the two methods. The nozzles and the compressor cost around 350$ where the water pump tank costs around $200 so the costs aren’t too different.
@@Ghanzo www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017HTWMHK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=A3JVO9PJXTSCRK&psc=1
These Tefen nozzles were the type I was thinking of getting based on some youtube reviews. Just in case you decide to go that route. Looks like all you would need is the 1/4" to quick disconnect adapter and the nozzles to do the test.
@@MB-hs4vp I actually have some nozzles already. I'll run one soon. like in a few months lol
@@Ghanzo what's up bro?
I'm positive your set up is just as good, if not better than using the normal HPA set up.
I don't forsee any problems with your set up.
Except for electrical outages.
And you can get around that with a little solor set up.
In regards to everyone worrying about oxygen to your root zone.
Lets think about this.
You have a air line blowing oxygen into your grow chambers.
Dah, what's the problem?
Plus if you are draining your grow chambers back into your nute res. you are collecting plenty of oxygen with that circulation.
Another thing i noticed is, you might want to black out your nute res. You should keep light from getting in there. Plus it will keep your temperature down.
One more thing, there are pros and cons to this debate.
Micros or sterile ?
The way I look at it is.
Which one is natural and which one isn't ?
I have had NO problems going with micros.
Even with during the summer sometimes my nute solution gets a little warm.
But everyone has their own opinion about everything.
Which is fine.
You just need to find what works for you and go with it.
Like I stated before I've been growing this way for almost 10 years now.
And I'm just letting you know what works for me in my setup.
It doesn't mean it will work in your setup.
But I don't see why it wouldn't.
Oh, I'm sure you are checking your pH and ppms. And your humidity to temps. So your plants get the correct evaporation pressure.
Later... ASS OG.
Areo Systems Sea Of Green.
Thats is Fogponie or Ultraponie
Neither. It's Aeroponics. Air compressor and nozzle
@@Ghanzo
Yes my bad, it's not Ultraponie, thats will need Ultrason gear.
But i think we can call it Frogponie to.
I just discover High pressur aeroponic system with your video.
Very interesting.
So you’re saying that nasa is wrong?
Can you source that inference?
The original nasa papers recommended a droplet size of 5-50 microns, which isn't achieved without aerosolizing the water. Aerosol is a pressurized mixture of air and water, that's why its called "aeroponics".
People get fine results without air compression however.
If you can source the schematics for NASA's present growing methods I'd also be interested in seeing them.
Nozzles don’t clog unless yo use organic inputs or don’t use 200 mesh filters. Try senningers. They won’t clog. You need those larger droplets to develop the roots, then you can bring in the dry fog. With just dry fog, you won’t get much lateral root growth and will see more stringy with fine hairs. You want it as a robust mass with fine hair. Get some senningers and a little pump and try using both mist and fog. Trust me, it works much better.
@@jonosterman2878 hi! which senningers nozzles do you recommend? i saw their catalog of misters and foggers but couldn't find any information regarding dropplet size and also i got a bit confused about the applications of the nozzles. Thanks for the info.
这个厉害，用到arduino,继电器，定时,COOL
arduino是什么啊兄弟
The aero science people claim you can run compost tea (filtered) through their foggers
I could see that working to some degree, though the more I learn about plants, the more that I believe that microbes are doing most of the work. If you spray microbes, theyre not likely to survive for very long. Which is why I've moved to soil since I put out this video. I think inert compost teas will have some benefit, but I'm not convinced the plants will have complete nutrition from compost tea
Tbh the plants are more the carbon from the air than they are the nutrients
How plants collect nutrients is a very complicated and understudied phenomenon. In general it works by producing saps and sugars on the surfaces of the plant and roots, that microorganisms feed on. The microorganisms provide the nutrients to the plant in various ways, but most amazing to me, the plant actually eats some of that biology.
0:53 music turned off. Changed my thumbs down to thumbs up
it looks like a contraption from venus
Hell of an expensive way to grow a few strawberry plants- don't you think?
They're tomatoes bro. Get it straight.
just did a run in my low pressure aero system, started off great, then they got a mucus buildup and nute locked then started dying. instagram.com/aeroboone/ I could try another run with adding more oxygen direct to the roots with an air pump but I figured they got enough with the low pressure sprayers, what do you think? Maybe it was an anaerobic issue. Nice system tho enjoyed the vid.
Hard to say. There are hundreds of variables. Could be a contamination issue. Might want to do a deep clean of the equipment between grows. Oxygen certainly helps keep the right kinds of things away thats why I like the high pressure nozzles with the small droplets. Were your nozzles clogged? Were you draining well? How about the airflow in the grow room itself? Nice page! Love Maine. Lot of growers up there and Vermont.
Kiss.
Oh yeah, simple set up. Anyone can do it. Just got that stuff laying around. 🤪
t......
hehe. It's simple in that its mostly analog. Maybe its not ideal for home grows though. I think if I were to do it right I would get a really nice compressor and bury it underground and get a massive tank so I could run the compressor on less intervals. That thing ends up being kind of loud and annoying though, and even two nozzles use surprisingly a lot of air. But I tell you man, the roots go insane under those nozzles.
Then if you want to go the next step, you start buying probes and sensors, and route all that data to a private server, and start automating processes like, "if the tent floods do this", " if tank is at this psi, run compressor", which is really one step away from machine learning automation which is what its like at the top.
@@Ghanzo yeah, I do want to go high pressure aero.
@@AverageJoeandaMustang Nice! Go for it! Just be ready for a lot of noise from the compressor.
@@Ghanzo not going to use compressor. Probably smaller scale like aquatek 6800 or 8800 pump system. Quieter and does the same thing.
@@AverageJoeandaMustang Nice! Good luck!