"If a church is built within five blocks of an abortion clinic that was bombed by a christian, is that then a Victory Church?" OWNED point blank. Bravo Matt you are my hero
"By late 2008, St. Nicholas and the Port Authority had reached a tentative agreement for the church to give up its 1,200-square-foot site at 155 Cedar Street in exchange for 130 Liberty Street, a bigger site half a block away. Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location."
@DayneAW Not that I am aware of, that's totally my point. If there is no law prohibiting buildings funded by terrorists, then the argument "It's being funded by terrorists!" is irrelevant. If you (I mean generally speaking, not you particularly) don't like it, then speak to your representative to promote a law to prevent that happening. USA PATRIOT Act, Title III prevents terrorists to get fundings from the USA, but not the other way round.
@Dakayrus He is not saying that he knows that the money is coming from terrorists. He is saying that accepting money made from terrorism is wrong, and that it is important to know where the money for the victory mosque is coming from. HUGE DIFFERENCE!
@ciaochowbella "Actually, we should have rebuilt the WTC in order to thumb our noses at them." We can still do so, in the exact location, and we could even use some of the rubble, and even then we could still allow the building of this mosque, since they're two blocks away from each other... We could even build about 3 or four of the tower complexes and still have enough room for both.
With regards to the "red tape" situation... it is a greek orthodox church that is looking to be rebuilt with public funds, and they already turned down an offer two years ago. They have the permits to rebuild on their old plot. The hold up is over a publicly funded larger church. A basic web search will provide relevant news links.
"...Denise saying that I'm going to be tortured forever is in bad taste but you won't hear me saying Denise's church can't have a building there..." QFT. That's all I have to say on the issue. Other than love the show guys. Thanks for being on UA-cam so the world can watch.
The church referred to is St Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and it was completely buried by the collapse of WTC 2 in the attack. The "red tape" mentioned - was more to do with the redevelopment of the whole site and paying money for relocation etc.
There is only one truth out there. When the end comes you'll regret being wrong. Say what you want you'll still be wrong. You were warned time and again.
@lyntonio Notice the question mark at the end of my sentence: "So your sample space is one?" I can only ascertain what you have mentioned as the basis of your conclusion. However, even so, we're still talking about 1.5 million people who represent a considerable amount of diversity in their culture, attitudes, and relationship with their religion.
I had no idea the mosque in question was 1) 5 blocks away and 2) further than another pre-existing mosque. You know, that's one thing I really love about this show, I find this program illuminates a lot of various subjects that I held beliefs on and now find myself convinced to change them. Originally I had a lot of misconceptions about the mosque. Convincing evidence and arguments were presented; beliefs were changed. There, that wasn't so painful now was it? : )
5:30 "Is that a victory church?" "Not at all" "Then go away *click*" Fuck yes! That's a great damn point hahaha. I don't trust Islam for the Imam behind Park51 but the more this goes on the more I hope we can all see the protest has been founded on xenophobic religious roots and no others.
@Kwinnky: Appeal to sense of "people are probably going to vandalize your building" is. I was trying to avoid appearing to advocate vandalism without wasting many of the characters available to me.
@Yakslipper Familiar? Do you mean similar to Harris? Actually, I just realized that I was confusing a recent article by Hitchens with the article you are talking about. I have NOT read it yet. However, I'll give it a read at some point. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
@robertwc82 The building is supposed to be tall, some say it will overlook the area of the collapsed towers. It is also just around the corner. Since the mosque part is at the top that means they can get a good view and really get off by seing what their prayers can result in.
Hey, I noticed there are multiple versions of the intro song that is played for the AE show clips on youtube. Is one, or all of them available for download somewhere? I really like the track :) They were made by some guy specifically for the show, right?
@spamvigilante I did address your comment by pointing out the distance doesn't matter. Would it matter if it was one block or 5 blocks away? No, it wouldn't. The outrage would be identical for the exact same reasons they are outraged at 2 blocks away.
Well, Thunderf00t made a good point about reciprocity. But then there is a point, one brilliantly put by one comment I read: "Right. Let's defeat the fundamentalists by becoming just like them."
These people *might* be being insensitive, but that's what living in a free society is all about. People are free to be insensitive, the alternative is to live somewhere like Iran.
"If a Christian church is built five blocks away from an abortion clinic that was bombed by a Christian is that a victory church?" "Not at all" "Then go away." EPIC WIN
"It's not against the law, so it's great!" "Tolerance!" "It's not *ON* Ground Zero!" Blah, blah, blah. There's already a mosque nearby, so they need to make a big deal about building another? I've heard that those responsible for the building in question refused to even discuss changing its intended location. Why would they do that, even in the face of apparently a significant number of people being angry about it? Everyone else makes compromises; they give us "the bird" and keep going.
@F33bs, I wonder if reading Dr. Humphrey's essay “What shall we tell the children?” changes your mind. It's easy to find. But i'm not anxious to badger anyone.
@spamvigilante A) please tell me what is the proper definition of a block (by that I mean, how many feet) B) what is the proper method of determining the starting point to measure the starting point and ending point between "ground zero" and "the mosque" C) if I find your definition/formula's less helpful, and have a ultimately come to a different number of blocks between A and B.....does that change the argument whatsoever?: C) is the important one.
@shirehorse9 A mosque is a place where only Muslim worship is conducted. A prayer space is a place where Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and whatever prayer can be conducted. This place has a "500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare services, art exhibitions, bookstore, culinary school, and a food court serving halal dishes." Unlike mosques, churches, and synagogues, this place is actually useful.
@zodiakranch No the old building goes down and a new one (taller) is supposed to be erected. The mosque is of course the central part of it. It will be its main attraction.
@F33bs, that's because you are applying it the whole world, or a nation, or a state. What I'm actually building is just for a small city government. Suppose the citizen of a small city created a site that allowed them to resolve all the issues facing their city council before the city council could even vote on them--and came to agreement about how they should be handled. What do you suppose those officials would do when ever member of the community had already, unanimously, set an agenda?
There are some factual errors here. The building of the mosque at ground zero is to mark a victory, not 'to show they beat us'. The site is two blocks away, not five.
Nice video. Please upload more atheist experience-s, love this show! Reactions to the news is also fine imo. Always good to share rational thinking with the ppl!!!
@robertwc82 I'm just saying it could very well be that the building will be high enough to overlook the other buildings. It is suposed to be 13 stories. Not sure how high the other buildings are. Also, calm down.
@DayneAW Emmmm... no. The point they made in this video is that it does not matter if the funding comes from overseas or not, terrorists or not.... IF THERE IS NO REGULATION PROHIBITING IT. As they said, should the construction of a McDonalds be stopped if the funding came from terrorists? No if there is no law prohibiting it! The moment such a law appears stop ANY construction funded by terrorists, but not a second before. No new rules should be applied to this specific building outside the law
@GalneGunnarTV Listen to whole thing carefully. They said that is why there is laws there that prevent that kind of money funneling. The "so what" response was only in response to over seas funding.
I'm digging the FSM. I personally think that it's neccissary to build a mosque near Ground zero. Frankly, I think a mosque should be build ON ground zero. People need to get over it. Businesses have died left and right near ground zero and furthermore, its not just a mosque, its a community center. It is there to promote tolerance. NOTHING would drive the message home better then that.
I have a question for any christians that against the mosque; should any churches built on or near ground where native american villagers were slaughtered be taken down?
@ananiasacts : The fact is that municipalities make decisions ALL THE TIME about what can be built where--often based on the personal aesthetics of the city planners, or hopefully, the interests and desires of the community in general. Acting on a consensus that the majority of the citizens of a town or city think a certain type of building is "inappropriate" in a certain place is done EVERYDAY throughout the country.
The only problem that I have with the Mosque is that the property is tax free. I'd have as much problem with them putting a Church there (or anywhere for that matter.)
@F33bs Yeah - I don't have them. I'm just being honest. That is the impression I have. It's a plausible factor amongst other factors. Those aren't "buzz words" those are qualifiers. I should have used them originally to be more honest about my level of certainty on the issue. Thanks for pointing it out to me. If you have better info and would like to enlighten us, that would be great. Thing is though, I doubt that exact and real motivations will ever be certain.
This is a prime example of why I still fw the Atheist Experience and Matt Dillahunty. The bs anti Muslim rhetoric that so many "skeptics" adopted and right wing bs ideas that followed lost a lot of people my respect. They stayed pretty solid when way too many got caught up in what a handful of collage students were doing wrong.
@AsheIsTheRaven I fully understand that people of New York and other parts of USA is protesting the mosque. They have the right to do it, as long as they don't brake any law. Hypothetically speaking, if a bunch of christian fanatics came to my house and murdered any of my family members because they were non-believers, I would be really upset if someone built a church right next to my house, even if they said it was for "building bridges". That would sicken me.
epic response to the caller. Personally I think that they shouldn't build the mosque, but I have that position regarding all religious buildings. However the state shouldn't prohibit them as other religions also have the right to place buildings near ground zero
This is one of the most sensible responses to this issue that I've yet heard. Personally, I wouldn't support the construction of any religious structures, i.e. mosques, synagogues, churches, but that's not because of 9/11. It's because of my personal opinions about religion. That being said, they have every right to build that mosque. My personal opinions about religion don't give me the right to restrict the rights of others... even if I vehemently disagree with them.
@Phoboskomboa, I should spell it out in a blog essay, because there are a great many interesting synergies. For one, it would lure deeply religious people into cyberspace by giving them much better access to that vast body of literature that is related to their scriptures. That might leave them more likely to discover the shady roots of all scriptures, and how they evolved, and go a long way towards educating people out a mindless devotion and into a more philosophical exploration.
@chrintov I agree, But look at it from their side, do you really think, if you had calls come in weekly and be as idiotic or close to in level as this one, that youd be able to keep your cool and not tell those particular people that they are being stupid?
@SurelyYewJest, you're getting ahead of me. Shouldn't we first decide if it is right or wrong? (I do have an idea for how we might stop it. It doesn't involve the parents at all--or the children.)
Is it just me or if a terrorist organization pours money into a community center, doesn't it mean they have less money to buy weapons and less resources to cause us grief? Also, Isn't putting a mosque inside a community center the equivalent of putting a church inside a Walmart? Sounds like they would have to put up with harsh realities in either case.
I agree with you there. The places of worship are indeed icons of ignorance, and thus undesirable. But I would never try to legislate them out of existence.
i think the greatest thing any willing non-believer can do is set up a centre next door to any place of worship which effectively criticizes and dispels the nonsense that is religion.. in doing this you may encounter sever if not fatal violence from zealots.. but i do believe it is a good idea.. good unbiased talk gentlemen thank you for that..
If it is a victory mosque, or a mosque teaching sharia law, I think it is indeed disgusting, and it offends me personally. But, we don't change our laws for certain groups just because someone is offended. No one has a "right" not to be offended.
@mattghtpa Maybe I was wrong, but it seemed to me that your main complaint was that they didn't step forward and say "they (muslims) do not have the right to build a mosque in G.Z." Why not? If not by legal regulation then why? And if you do not contest property rights, why do you seem so disappointed about their position of "If they have the right to build a mosque, let them build their mosque"? Let me ask you a question to clarify our stands: In what base grounds should the mosque be stopped?
@unclexbob No, you fool. I was correcting the obvious mistakes in the video. Maybe you have no problem with inaccuracy. People who are sloppy and often make mistakes often are.
Once again, Matt expresses why he's my absolute favorite
"I think all religious buildings are in bad taste for pretty much the same reasons but they're not illegal and its really not an issue" spot on
"Then go away." I think I'll just say that at the end of every argument I ever have.
"Then go away" *click* fucking magic!
you guys truly are the voice of reason!!
"then go away."
best line ever.
Excellent clip, one of the finest on the subject! Just pure gold.
LOL! "Then go away." *click* I love you, Matt!
There is one kind of material sharp enough to cut any red tape. It is called money.
That was the best hang up I've ever seen. Awesome.
"Then go away."
"then go away" *ends call*
owned
And you are unreasonable if you think he is soft. He is reasonable, not soft.
@ Jeff Dee:
Yes, yes, yes, YES!!!
*Standing up with hands in the air*
Exactly!!!
Matt being brilliant, as usual.
Love how he just machettes that dudes reasoning of it being a victory mosque.
"Then go away."
Amazing.
"If a church is built within five blocks of an abortion clinic that was bombed by a christian, is that then a Victory Church?" OWNED point blank. Bravo Matt you are my hero
"Then go away."
Haha beautiful
"then go away" LOL!
"Then go away!"
That was great.
I fucking love Matt. That elbow from the sky when he cut the guy off was beautiful.
"Is that a victory Church?"
"Not at all."
"Then go away." Click.
5:36 oh yeah!
I love when Matt just hangs up on jackasses.
"By late 2008, St. Nicholas and the Port Authority had reached a tentative agreement for the church to give up its 1,200-square-foot site at 155 Cedar Street in exchange for 130 Liberty Street, a bigger site half a block away.
Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location."
@DayneAW Not that I am aware of, that's totally my point. If there is no law prohibiting buildings funded by terrorists, then the argument "It's being funded by terrorists!" is irrelevant. If you (I mean generally speaking, not you particularly) don't like it, then speak to your representative to promote a law to prevent that happening.
USA PATRIOT Act, Title III prevents terrorists to get fundings from the USA, but not the other way round.
@Dakayrus
He is not saying that he knows that the money is coming from terrorists. He is saying that accepting money made from terrorism is wrong, and that it is important to know where the money for the victory mosque is coming from. HUGE DIFFERENCE!
@ciaochowbella "Actually, we should have rebuilt the WTC in order to thumb our noses at them."
We can still do so, in the exact location, and we could even use some of the rubble, and even then we could still allow the building of this mosque, since they're two blocks away from each other... We could even build about 3 or four of the tower complexes and still have enough room for both.
5:26 go away lmao
With regards to the "red tape" situation... it is a greek orthodox church that is looking to be rebuilt with public funds, and they already turned down an offer two years ago. They have the permits to rebuild on their old plot. The hold up is over a publicly funded larger church. A basic web search will provide relevant news links.
"...Denise saying that I'm going to be tortured forever is in bad taste but you won't hear me saying Denise's church can't have a building there..."
QFT. That's all I have to say on the issue.
Other than love the show guys. Thanks for being on UA-cam so the world can watch.
The church referred to is St Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and it was completely buried by the collapse of WTC 2 in the attack. The "red tape" mentioned - was more to do with the redevelopment of the whole site and paying money for relocation etc.
There is only one truth out there. When the end comes you'll regret being wrong. Say what you want you'll still be wrong. You were warned time and again.
@lyntonio Notice the question mark at the end of my sentence: "So your sample space is one?" I can only ascertain what you have mentioned as the basis of your conclusion. However, even so, we're still talking about 1.5 million people who represent a considerable amount of diversity in their culture, attitudes, and relationship with their religion.
I had no idea the mosque in question was 1) 5 blocks away and 2) further than another pre-existing mosque. You know, that's one thing I really love about this show, I find this program illuminates a lot of various subjects that I held beliefs on and now find myself convinced to change them. Originally I had a lot of misconceptions about the mosque.
Convincing evidence and arguments were presented; beliefs were changed. There, that wasn't so painful now was it? : )
5:30
"Is that a victory church?"
"Not at all"
"Then go away *click*"
Fuck yes! That's a great damn point hahaha. I don't trust Islam for the Imam behind Park51 but the more this goes on the more I hope we can all see the protest has been founded on xenophobic religious roots and no others.
@Kwinnky: Appeal to sense of "people are probably going to vandalize your building" is. I was trying to avoid appearing to advocate vandalism without wasting many of the characters available to me.
@Yakslipper Familiar? Do you mean similar to Harris? Actually, I just realized that I was confusing a recent article by Hitchens with the article you are talking about. I have NOT read it yet. However, I'll give it a read at some point. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
have you guys been away for a while - i haven't seen your videos for a while.
The follow post is concerning the church at Ground Zero
The text is from a Huffington Post story by Nicole Neroulias on 8-23-2010
@robertwc82
The building is supposed to be tall, some say it will overlook the area of the collapsed towers. It is also just around the corner. Since the mosque part is at the top that means they can get a good view and really get off by seing what their prayers can result in.
THAT WAS SOOOO BADASSS!!!! :D
Hey, I noticed there are multiple versions of the intro song that is played for the AE show clips on youtube. Is one, or all of them available for download somewhere? I really like the track :) They were made by some guy specifically for the show, right?
@spamvigilante I did address your comment by pointing out the distance doesn't matter. Would it matter if it was one block or 5 blocks away? No, it wouldn't. The outrage would be identical for the exact same reasons they are outraged at 2 blocks away.
Good on you for calling Pat Condell, this issue has clearly demonstrated that not all athiests are humanists.
I'm so glad that Matt has taken the sensible attitude to this, it bucks my hopes to here him condemn Pat Condell.
Well, Thunderf00t made a good point about reciprocity. But then there is a point, one brilliantly put by one comment I read: "Right. Let's defeat the fundamentalists by becoming just like them."
@Kwinnky: Am I that badly informed? I don't remember any attacks on such buildings being preceded by offers to help them move to safe(r?) locations.
These people *might* be being insensitive, but that's what living in a free society is all about. People are free to be insensitive, the alternative is to live somewhere like Iran.
"If a Christian church is built five blocks away from an abortion clinic that was bombed by a Christian is that a victory church?"
"Not at all"
"Then go away."
EPIC WIN
"It's not against the law, so it's great!" "Tolerance!" "It's not *ON* Ground Zero!"
Blah, blah, blah. There's already a mosque nearby, so they need to make a big deal about building another? I've heard that those responsible for the building in question refused to even discuss changing its intended location. Why would they do that, even in the face of apparently a significant number of people being angry about it? Everyone else makes compromises; they give us "the bird" and keep going.
@F33bs, I wonder if reading Dr. Humphrey's essay “What shall we tell the children?” changes your mind. It's easy to find. But i'm not anxious to badger anyone.
@spamvigilante A) please tell me what is the proper definition of a block (by that I mean, how many feet) B) what is the proper method of determining the starting point to measure the starting point and ending point between "ground zero" and "the mosque" C) if I find your definition/formula's less helpful, and have a ultimately come to a different number of blocks between A and B.....does that change the argument whatsoever?:
C) is the important one.
"Then Go Away"....I cracked up so hard
@shirehorse9 A mosque is a place where only Muslim worship is conducted. A prayer space is a place where Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and whatever prayer can be conducted. This place has a "500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare services, art exhibitions, bookstore, culinary school, and a food court serving halal dishes." Unlike mosques, churches, and synagogues, this place is actually useful.
@zodiakranch
No the old building goes down and a new one (taller) is supposed to be erected. The mosque is of course the central part of it. It will be its main attraction.
@F33bs, that's because you are applying it the whole world, or a nation, or a state. What I'm actually building is just for a small city government. Suppose the citizen of a small city created a site that allowed them to resolve all the issues facing their city council before the city council could even vote on them--and came to agreement about how they should be handled. What do you suppose those officials would do when ever member of the community had already, unanimously, set an agenda?
Imagine what it would have been like if they wanted to build a huge church on (or near) ground zero.
There are some factual errors here.
The building of the mosque at ground zero is to mark a victory, not 'to show they beat us'.
The site is two blocks away, not five.
Nice video. Please upload more atheist experience-s, love this show!
Reactions to the news is also fine imo. Always good to share rational thinking with the ppl!!!
You are the true voice of reason. You make me proud, you stole my words. Run for President Matt, Please (I am serious this is not sarcasm)!!!
"Then get lost" *click*
Made me smile.
@robertwc82
I'm just saying it could very well be that the building will be high enough to overlook the other buildings. It is suposed to be 13 stories. Not sure how high the other buildings are.
Also, calm down.
Three cheers for Matt and the crew
@DayneAW Emmmm... no. The point they made in this video is that it does not matter if the funding comes from overseas or not, terrorists or not.... IF THERE IS NO REGULATION PROHIBITING IT. As they said, should the construction of a McDonalds be stopped if the funding came from terrorists? No if there is no law prohibiting it! The moment such a law appears stop ANY construction funded by terrorists, but not a second before. No new rules should be applied to this specific building outside the law
@GalneGunnarTV Listen to whole thing carefully. They said that is why there is laws there that prevent that kind of money funneling. The "so what" response was only in response to over seas funding.
I fucking love when Jeff Dee gets on the show. He is fucking awesome.
I'm digging the FSM. I personally think that it's neccissary to build a mosque near Ground zero. Frankly, I think a mosque should be build ON ground zero. People need to get over it. Businesses have died left and right near ground zero and furthermore, its not just a mosque, its a community center. It is there to promote tolerance. NOTHING would drive the message home better then that.
I have a question for any christians that against the mosque; should any churches built on or near ground where native american villagers were slaughtered be taken down?
I think that was a bit of a mean way to end the show. I know he was wrong, but he seemed like a nice enough guy.
@1mandomaker assuming it has a reading room, or your sitting down just having a coffee reading would you think anyone would object?
@ananiasacts : The fact is that municipalities make decisions ALL THE TIME about what can be built where--often based on the personal aesthetics of the city planners, or hopefully, the interests and desires of the community in general. Acting on a consensus that the majority of the citizens of a town or city think a certain type of building is "inappropriate" in a certain place is done EVERYDAY throughout the country.
The only problem that I have with the Mosque is that the property is tax free. I'd have as much problem with them putting a Church there (or anywhere for that matter.)
@F33bs Yeah - I don't have them. I'm just being honest. That is the impression I have. It's a plausible factor amongst other factors. Those aren't "buzz words" those are qualifiers. I should have used them originally to be more honest about my level of certainty on the issue. Thanks for pointing it out to me. If you have better info and would like to enlighten us, that would be great. Thing is though, I doubt that exact and real motivations will ever be certain.
i wanna go to austin just to see this show and eat dinner after
This is a prime example of why I still fw the Atheist Experience and Matt Dillahunty. The bs anti Muslim rhetoric that so many "skeptics" adopted and right wing bs ideas that followed lost a lot of people my respect. They stayed pretty solid when way too many got caught up in what a handful of collage students were doing wrong.
That was a great bait at the end and the guy just walked right into it ...
"then go away" CLICK......that was classic matt
"Bad taste" is nothing to base your laws on.
@AsheIsTheRaven I fully understand that people of New York and other parts of USA is protesting the mosque. They have the right to do it, as long as they don't brake any law.
Hypothetically speaking, if a bunch of christian fanatics came to my house and murdered any of my family members because they were non-believers, I would be really upset if someone built a church right next to my house, even if they said it was for "building bridges". That would sicken me.
Matt is a pimp! That was awesome how he pwned that guy when he hung up on him!
epic response to the caller. Personally I think that they shouldn't build the mosque, but I have that position regarding all religious buildings. However the state shouldn't prohibit them as other religions also have the right to place buildings near ground zero
Glad to see these folks from TAA still on the side of rationalism and freedom above all else.
Tolerance shouldn't KO itself. It is European nationalism that allowed the Western culture to survive up to this point.
Matt seems absolutely fried from another day of stupid callers on TAE. I'll bet he had an extra beer at the Pub afterwards.
This is one of the most sensible responses to this issue that I've yet heard. Personally, I wouldn't support the construction of any religious structures, i.e. mosques, synagogues, churches, but that's not because of 9/11. It's because of my personal opinions about religion. That being said, they have every right to build that mosque. My personal opinions about religion don't give me the right to restrict the rights of others... even if I vehemently disagree with them.
@Phoboskomboa, I should spell it out in a blog essay, because there are a great many interesting synergies. For one, it would lure deeply religious people into cyberspace by giving them much better access to that vast body of literature that is related to their scriptures. That might leave them more likely to discover the shady roots of all scriptures, and how they evolved, and go a long way towards educating people out a mindless devotion and into a more philosophical exploration.
@chrintov I agree, But look at it from their side, do you really think, if you had calls come in weekly and be as idiotic or close to in level as this one, that youd be able to keep your cool and not tell those particular people that they are being stupid?
"Life of Brian" then, go watch that, you'll love it.
@SurelyYewJest, you're getting ahead of me. Shouldn't we first decide if it is right or wrong? (I do have an idea for how we might stop it. It doesn't involve the parents at all--or the children.)
Is it just me or if a terrorist organization pours money into a community center, doesn't it mean they have less money to buy weapons and less resources to cause us grief?
Also, Isn't putting a mosque inside a community center the equivalent of putting a church inside a Walmart? Sounds like they would have to put up with harsh realities in either case.
Wait what? There is already a mosque that is closer?
I agree with you there. The places of worship are indeed icons of ignorance, and thus undesirable. But I would never try to legislate them out of existence.
i think the greatest thing any willing non-believer can do is set up a centre next door to any place of worship which effectively criticizes and dispels the nonsense that is religion.. in doing this you may encounter sever if not fatal violence from zealots.. but i do believe it is a good idea.. good unbiased talk gentlemen thank you for that..
If it is a victory mosque, or a mosque teaching sharia law, I think it is indeed disgusting, and it offends me personally. But, we don't change our laws for certain groups just because someone is offended. No one has a "right" not to be offended.
Is there not a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor? At least near it? I'll investigate that and come back to this.
@mattghtpa Maybe I was wrong, but it seemed to me that your main complaint was that they didn't step forward and say "they (muslims) do not have the right to build a mosque in G.Z." Why not? If not by legal regulation then why? And if you do not contest property rights, why do you seem so disappointed about their position of "If they have the right to build a mosque, let them build their mosque"?
Let me ask you a question to clarify our stands: In what base grounds should the mosque be stopped?
Matts getting soft !
@unclexbob No, you fool. I was correcting the obvious mistakes in the video.
Maybe you have no problem with inaccuracy. People who are sloppy and often make mistakes often are.
This is why the constitution would have been perfect 'if': "Freedom of 'Personal' Religion" was added!
@slowtoad 'Expect him to profit from the sales of a lot more books in the future thanks to that.'
Full Agreement.