"Reasons for accepting atheism" | Stefan - Brooklyn, NY | Atheist Experience
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- (Part 1/2.) Stefan from Brooklyn, NY asks the hosts for their "basic reasons for the acceptance of atheism." (In other words, he wants to hear "proof and evidence that atheism is even accurate and correct.") He also wants to know if their atheism is based on their acceptance of evolution.
Excerpt from The Atheist Experience #668 of August 1, 2010, with Matt Dillahunty and AronRa. (Topic: viewer calls).
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"The Bible is true because God inspired it. It says so right there in the Bible."
How hard is it to see the circular argument here?
Erik it's difficult when they're told to believe something and made to feel "foolish in their heart" for not believing something
mushroomfat Fair point - when you're told that you can't trust your own judgement, and that any doubt you feel is a dire sin - I guess it's easy to train yourself *out* of seeing the flaws. =\
as a former Christian... very difficult sadly.
boscorner No it’s not difficult.
DarkVWolf It's easy to see now of course, but It doesn't seem illogical when you are brainwashed by christianity. Thats why lots of former christians are pretty embarassed.
holy shit Aaron and Matt. epic combo
Yes. ANYONE calling in will be steamrolled by logic and sound arguments.
I like this AronRa guy. He seems like a pretty genuine dude.
Jude K You should look him up on youtube. He is quite a cool guy.
Jude K - he is pretty cool and reasonable when debating people, especially stupid people, it seems like patience is his virtue!
his only problem is supporting feminazi dogma.
So says another young (or mentally disordered old) dude who's afraid women might actually one day BE treated equally.
*Added in here, that's not to say there aren't extremists who have issues of their own and are 'man haters' within feminism, because there are, but the idea of equality for both men and women, and studying the fact that in daily life we tend to give more credence, more respect, more everything, to men, isn't harmful, and can actually help make a better world for all of us. Both men and women are often perpetuating the problem of sexism, which is why it takes us all to resolve it.
How love how creationists call in thinking that they're going to convert people with their awesome logic, and then they just say the same thing that's been said hundreds of times before. Usually been debunked as well.
Stefan is a goof nothing more nothing less. 🤪
Stefan lost this argument when he said, "Hi...."
Don't you know that each and every god-espousing book is true? After all every such book is true because every such book says that it is true.
Cesar (Stefan) is smart enough to call himself by a different name but not smart enough to disguise his voice or change his approach.
Matthew Harrison (
AronRa is fucking AWESOME!
In retro spec (and since Atheism+) I find myself having to redact this sentiment.
M McQuarrie okay why? why is he not awesome?
He drank the atheism+ kool-aid and fell into the same gender identity politics trap that has since plagued the atheist circles on the internet, kowtowing to the social justice sphere and abandoning all objectivity. In short, he became what he criticized, someone who lets ideologies subvert and dictate what he should believe as opposed to letting the evidence speak for itself.
M McQuarrie i have whatched him for over a year now and the only thing he said to that affect was: i indentify as a feminist. now if that are gender politics i dont fucking know what is what anymore.
Saying you're a "feminist" is one thing.
Saying stupid shit like "if you are a feminist, you are a sexist, by definition," is another.
I never understood how Christians can believe god has some great master plan and that our lives are already planned out but also believe in free will. How does that work?
It simply can’t.
Plot twist: The dude on left is actually Jesus.
Except Aron is real, and not a douche.
Woah
King Animal 😂😂
Nah. Jesus had long dark hair. Check. Jesus was white. Check. But Jesus didn't have no mustache. I've seen lotsa pitchers.
If Jesus was actually wise he would have sounded like Aron
Faith is believing, when it's beyond the power of reason, to believe.- Voltaire
AronRa could make a great Klingon. :D
+Wimpoman how do you he is not?
Google.
Disney villain
He mentioned it in one of his vids.
Nah, he's way too gentle for that :D
thank you atheist experience for everything you do, these guys are the reason I became an atheist/agnostic. the atheist experience was the first atheist channel I watched and made me question my faith. you guys are awesome
God, if you exist, I challenge you to let us know on this UA-cam thread.
If you ain't got an account, just fuckin sign up for one innit.
It is I, the LORD your God, my child. Bow to me and send me money. Or I shall smite thee and send thee to a place of eternal torment. I accept cash only. No checks, no money orders, no credit cards.
I'd do what he says, he seems legit.
Dr. Atheist Thanks, doc. I grant thee eternal paradise. After you send me money, of course.
Stabsnipers What address shall I send my tithing, my lord?
Dr. Atheist P.O Box: Heaven.
"accepting atheism". By the time I "accepted atheism", the only thing I accepted was the fact that I had been an atheist for days. I became an atheist the instant I stopped believing in God.
Actually, we're all atheists at birth. Nobody is born believing in any gods.
Every single person on this Earth is an atheist in respect to the hundreds of gods that have been created.
***** Agnostic and atheist are two different ball games. The former is a claim of knowledge, the other a claim of belief. Agnostics say they don't know or can't know something, gnostics say the opposite. Theists say they believe god/gods exist, atheists lack the belief. You can be an agnostic atheist, saying that you don't know whether there are any gods, and not holding any god beliefs. You can be a gnostic atheist, or anti-theist, claiming that you know no gods exist and holding no god beliefs. If you imagine a Venn diagram with a paper and one circle on it, the people inside the circle are theists and those outside are atheists. Nobody is sitting on the fence, nobody is on the circle. Everyone is either inside the circle, holding a god belief, or outside, holding no god beliefs.
***** _+nikolaneberemed, The atheist does not believe in the existence of god and, for him not to believe, first he needs to know what god is._
That is the stupidest sentence I think I have ever read. Creationists don't believe in evolution or cosmology, but rarely have any clue what they really are, which is evident whenever they conflate the two, and all the rest of the sciences under "Evolutionism" as if it was an umbrella term applying to everything that they are too lazy to actually learn anything about. You don't have to know anything about a claim to lack belief in it, and not much more to reject it.
_We are all born agnostic, which means that we do not have the knowledge whether to believe or not believe in the existence of God._
If you don't even have the concept, you can not have belief in it. No belief = lack of belief, which is all that is required for atheism.
no.. you cant acept something thats unproven , if you know what an atheist is...there is no fence ,theres just a group of people on this rock and some of those people walks around talking with invicible friends they demand others should consider real.
"I saw a dragon in the garden!"
"That's silly, there's no such thing as dragons."
"Yeah there is, I saw one."
"Prove it."
"You prove they DON'T exist!"
"I was in here drinking some coffee or whatever and you come in hear shouting about dragons and expect me to come up with why there wasn't one in the garden? You're grounded."
Your inability to grasp the concept does not in any way indicate a creator.
Before one reads the bible, the question should be answered: Who wrote this crap ?
Cary Francis You can't know that something is crap UNTIL you read it. So, your comment was meaningless.
Vertical Horizon Um ..... I did read the bible cover to cover.
Thats how atheists are made.
Not me, I was a devoted Child of God for over seven years after I had finished 2 years of intense study of the Bible(at least, as intense as possible without learning the original languages and limping along with only the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew and Greek dictionaries.). Even learning the truth about the Bible didn't shake my faith in God; I continued to believe in God for another 13 years, though my mental conception of Her changed over the years. I had had a personal experience with the Divine and nobody could convince me otherwise, until I learned what evidence is, and Occam's Razor. Before I could rationalize it away, my faith was gone, _poof_, like a puff of smoke. That was the spring of 2013. The only way I can ever believe again is with *evidence*.
Vertical Horizon I know I read enough of it to gather enough evidence to conclude that it is crap.
Phelan According to the Bible, lepers can be cured with animal sacrifice and a blood ritual.
There we go! It's crap!
How could Aaron have made it more clear than at 6:30?How can he not understand this?
Wilful ignorance
I love Matt and Aron-such brilliant people! I hope more and more people really listen to them
Aaron's hair looks like he's taking part in a shampoo advert!
he does have damn good looking hair.
He has mentioned in the past, he uses horse shampoo, I've used it also, but it doesn't make my hair look as good as his.😢
Lol he calls the show and doesnt even have a basic idea of what the word atheist even means.
I love how they can do this without stepping on each other.
@freehling420 The entirety of this show is done on a volunteer basis, and while I've only just started working on the show a few months ago, I'm proud of the work I've done. I'm glad to go help every single week, and while doing this for a paycheck would be great, I'm happy helping out as much as I can now. It's really people like you who keep the show running, and all the support we get from viewers means a lot to everyone on the show.
~ Thank you, TAE, Matt, AronRa ~ A decade later and still engaging and truthful. Shame on any commenting here in the negative. Truth wins. Cheers, DAVEDJ ~
Why is there a druid on the pannel today
Because he's expert at pwning fundamentalists.
If you believe in your god and do not believe in another technically means you are athiest so going with that we are all athiest in one way or another
james matteson Your comment gave me a brain tumor, thanks alot.
An atheist doesn't believe in any gods though.
I like how Matt says "correct"
I love your definition of faith AronRa! I am gonna commit that to memory.
Aron Ra and Matt: The Alpha and Omega of hairstyles.
Stefan - world champion in dodging questions.
Wow, at 2:35 that is the best definition of religious belief I've heard yet.
I'm going to have to write that one down.
"You have a belief system that is dependent upon faith. Faith is an assertion of absolute conviction, that is assumed independent of evidence and must be defended against all evidence to it's contrary."
Profound
I love how these guys are really careful with their use of language because they know that one of the ways that religious people try to attack atheists is through their use of language. Words like faith, belief and generalist statements are avoided and clarified when used. I find it quite entertaining to watch.
it seems religion acts as a deterrant to logical thinking. The more religious you are the harder it seems you grasp simple arguments. It's because that's how the religious are trained. They are told believe in god it's only logical, and also told don't question god with your logic you are not worthy.
Anonymous Remember too the the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God, and that God will use foolish things the bring down the wisdom of the world, and rightly so.
Utter drivel, Badger.
+Badger dog So you are saying that your god is the author of foolishness? I like that.
Badger dog another panacea inserted into a book of lifestyle instructions to keep you confused and conflicted, then to be told you MUST believe it without critical questioning, and that "the fool says in his heart that God doesn't exist" so you also feel like you're stupid in the eyes of your god and must correct that pronto.
You're logic is not worthy of god, you're a fool for not believing he exists, and you have to believe that he exists regardless of anything that says otherwise.
Phront Door Come judgement day we will all learn who are the fools here.
If I may add, I really like the 'you need to KNOW that 3 fingers is the stipulation for identifying' part. Because if I'm reading right, that means that I even have to guess which solution, a.k.a. which number - or which deity - you're talking about, as the other possibilities are also, well, possible. Thanks for admitting it, it's pretty rare :)
That hair is majestic as fuck I'll admit that and I'm a grown man. Much admiration.
@MuSiCiAnMaTtHeW Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Theism is the belief in a god or gods, and atheism is the absense of belief in a god or gods. One can be a theist, yet not belong to a religion, because they're two different things.
5:33 K, I'm done watching. This caller isn't getting it.
The only "meaning" and/or "purpose" anyone's life has is the "meaning" and "purpose" they give it. In that, we are all the same, atheist and theist.
How does one accept non-acceptance of a belief?
***** Your question is nonsensical. A non-belief is not a belief; it is a rejection of a belief.
These guys are so right. I can't believe in a magical invisible God who has never presented himself any more than I can believe in the Easter Bunny.
AronRa nailed it with his definition of faith.
It's impossible to 'accept atheism', since atheism is simply non-belief and requires nothing in itself. It would be like saying Matt's baldness is a 'hairstyle'.
I'm an atheist because I have a book that says atheism is true. The book is proof because it says right in the book: "this book is proof."
Sorry to disappoint Aron Ra, even in 2021, 11 years later, the arguments havent improved much...
tu quoque red herring based on a complete misunderstanding.
Atheism is nothing. It has no content. Theism, on the other hand, does have content.
So do stories about Tarzan, Popeye, Spiderman, Moses, Aquaman, Jesus and Cinderella.
All these stories have some value. Entertainment mostly.
I can't understand what the caller is saying...
Pick any rambling idiot off the street and listen. That's about it.
AronRa Is so great at explaining.
Theists; That argument the pastor gave you to call in with, has already been refuted for several years.
What is your evidence for not accepting the tooth fairy, unicorns, the loch ness monster or bigfoot?
Atheism is a belief system is like saying abstinence is a sexual position.
AronRa is fantastic!
There is a direct correlation between low intelligence and religiosity
havent seen that much fail for a long time. congratulations!
Every single time theists around the world lose when debated.
If evolution is a fact, then how come Theists aren't steadily asking better questions?
Easy answer. Willful ignorance based upon confirmation bias.
Undertaker and Kane, The Brothers Of Destruction 💀😭😭😂
😭😂
stefan what u DONT understand is the FACT that evelution has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any god claims.
evelution is a FACT.
and all the god claims in the world ISNT.
and thats a FACT as well.
get over it dude
😂😂😂
Aronra is so eloquent in his ass kicking.
Attention callers. Listening does not mean "thinking of what to say next".
Atheism is the default man child
@5:37 “poop indicates evidence.”
Right, so much of this when you actually think about it negates itself! And really, if there's a god that made a rule that says youve got to believe in it with no real evidence, or you're in for eternal torture, that THAT god is just a dick! Some 'god' could possibly exist, I don't know the more you look the less you see, but any being that expects things also needs to make itself plainly known.
Also, 'pragmatic agnostic a-theist' means nothing to me....I'd just as well be a 'pragmatic agnostic a-flying unicornist'...who cares? The whole point is I don't believe flying unicorns do exist, no one can show any proof they exist, so my position is I don't believe flying unicorns exist until someone can manage to show a bit of evidence TO believe in it. Doesn't matter how much they say they believe they do exist. Same as Yahweh, just no reason to believe it exists, at all.
'Not going to claim you're not 'agnostic'?
Gee, nice double negative...however I'll try to help you with your confusion about 'agnostic' and 'gnostic', these are just Greek words meaning you either 'know' something, or don't. They have NOTHING to do with any 'religious' affiliation, so please stop your nonsense. 'Belief' does not qualify as knowledge....for that, you need evidence.
'Probability' has nothing to do with whether something actually DOES exist or not...I presently do not believe 'Yahweh, creator deity of the bible' actually exists because NO evidence has ever been presented that shows this being is any more 'real' than a story from a book.
You say then I 'must then 'concede' I'm 'agnostic'? You know that's just a Greek word for 'knowledge' or 'without knowledge'? 'BELIEVING' in something no matter how strongly, does NOT qualify as 'knowledge'.
I understand the common usage of the term agnostic and I am objecting to it. Atheism refers to one who does not believe OR denies that a god exists. This definition includes all except agnostic theists, who believe there's a god, but claim no knowledge of its attributes. Though I already defined my position, I will do it again - I do not believe in any god, but do not deny the possibility (not probability) that one might exist. You need not use the label but, by the dictionary, you are atheist.
People would want to receive this "gift" when they are not able to accept reality as it is. Faith is a "gift" for those who are afraid to face the idea that their life will end, that they will not be permanently remembered and appreciated by an eternal "father". These are sad, pathetic people who need outside validation that their life is meaningful, and who feel that if they don't go on forever, there is no point in living at all.
That humans are not 'the only thing that exists' or may exist, does not prove 'therefore the god (of the bible) is real and did it'....thats my only position, I dont know what all atheists think and I dont really care, other than the religionists false argument which goes- 'You cant explain something, therefore the 'god of the bible' really did it and is proven real'....thats nonsense. Theres no reason to not know something, so therefore required to 'have faith' in just 1 other thing.
Upon what do you base your lack of belief in pink unicorns? If you don't believe in pink unicorns you are an a-unicornist. Do you need faith to NOT believe in pink unicorns? Is it just possible that you feel that it is just rational to NOT believe in pink unicorns since you have no evidence that they are real? Do you need justification for not believing in Vishnu, or Allah? YOU are an atheist to every religion but one, but that makes sense to you, but taking it one god further does not.
'But it's incoherent for theists to accept 'evolution'....well not really Stephan, because many theists today DO accept evolution, 'genetic change over time', because it's obviously true and observed fact. Maybe extreme fundamentalists such as yourself have a problem with this, but that doesn't mean 'evolution' is incoherent, it means you are.
Why do you separate the two terms? I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe there is a god, but I accept that there is some possibility that a god exists. I used to call myself "agnostic" before I researched the roots and the meanings of the terms. Once I understood what "atheist" really means, I realized that I was one, while still being agnostic.
It's virtually impossible to prove that something absolutely does not exist in the universe. Try googling for 'Russell's teapot". However, that doesn't mean that it's a fifty-fifty chance. It's almost certain there is no god, therefore I do not believe there is. If you can prove otherwise (bible doesn't count), I'm more than willing to admit I was wrong.
@agetro82
By this I mean, prophecies tend to be extremely vague, and easily extrapolatable to almost any event you want.
My favorite methods for debunking those assertions, is looking at "fullfilled" prophecies of other religions.
Hinduism has tons. They "predicted" the age of the universe accuratly, the age of the earth to 4.4 billion years, the existance of micro organisms causing diseases, etc.
Are those religions even more true than Christianity then?.
Hope it helps somewhat!.
@agetro82
Hope I can help.
First some of those things you've mentioned haven't been proven at all like the 11 dimensions in M theory. Second the prophetic dates are all wrong (babylonia exitsted 2000 years before actually existing according to the bible).
But mainly, you have to examine what the prophecy truly says. Humans can easily find patterns in any combination of words. They attribute these events to the prophecies, because they KNOW of the event. otherwise it's undistinguishable.
This is the watchmaker's argument. This has been refuted too many times to count. It's an argument from ignorance. Painting is proof of painting, and the only reason why we know it was painted is because we have previous knowledge of paintings and how they are created. Humans acquired this knowledge previously, and so we compare it to that.
Life is not proof of God, especially not your God since there are thousands of different gods that all claim responsibility for the creation of the universe.
To actually be able able to take all of Creation and explain it scientifically within one human mind, would be an impossibility. To actually grasp the complex functioning of everything from cells all the way through to Nebula, would be almost impossible. And when that possibility occurs, the one realizing it would see that nothing is an accident and the very magnitude and splendor of these perfect interactions that result in life is definitive proof in itself that a Creator Exists.
Actually, after spending some time here I have realized one thing, those that have experienced Love and Forgiveness and Spiritual awakening, will never be able to deny It. Those that have not yet experienced God and The Word Becoming Life, will have that opportunity sooner or later. So, all you actually do here with these videos is try to push ratings and maybe turn a few innocents from Light and Wisdom. But, not to worry, God is Moving and changing more and more Lives every day. God Bless.
When you see a painting on the wall. Have you ever seen the artist who painted it? Just because you have not seen the artist doesn't mean he does not exist. The very existence of the painting is proof of the existence of its painter. In the very same way the very existence of creation is proof of the existence of its Creator. God Bless ya all I am glad that I love God and even more ecstatic that no matter what darkness throws, in Him I have All Comfort, Love and Understanding. 6thSense.
Thanks a lot I appreciate it, but, seriously it was literally like a kind of osmosis, after reading the Bible and praying to God for Healing, my entire brain chemistry was changed. I went for brain scans before I left for treatment, my Frontal cortex was virtually destroyed. When I came back the new scans revealed everything was healed. Even the neurologist who examined me, sent his son for the same Healing and he too is now off all drugs and alcohol. I can try get the scans to you. NoJokes!!!
Thanks bro but I am trying to cut down. You are obviously a classy individual, and your choice of words speak volumes about your character and level of sympathy for your fellow man. I cannot really respond to your last statement in a way you would understand, I don't speak 'pig', I will simply pray for you brother and I hope one day you develop a at least some moral fiber. Good day to you.
Now, how can I use science or my scientific mind to explain that? There is an essence, another part to us humans and some higher Force. I tried many so called rehabs and it was only when I encountered God and found a cleaner path to follow through Biblical wisdom, that I was able to become healed, complete my degree etc etc etc etc. I cannot deny God, I cannot deny Faith, All I can do is accept that science cannot explain God but it can help me, help others to live happier lives. Amalgamation.
Yeh bro, I understand your logic and my scientific mind completely agrees, but then look at when I met Christ(not literally) and, through prayer, my drug addiction was instantly taken away. I look at my Grandfather in WW2, storming the beaches, his men died all around him, he prayed to God in that moment, he was given instant courage, stood up, said to his men, "Get up and fight for God is with us." This led to the 3rd breakout from Sword beach, overtaking a Machine gun nest.
As a child I was taught to respect every mans beliefs, to treat my neighbor as I would like to be treated. What some of you folk are doing here goes against principles governing even the most simply of human societies. I will bring my children up with honor, dignity and respect, knowing a loving God and knowing that perversion of all truths exist in this world, even wise men and woman who know much about the world, sometimes fails to grasp the most important of Essences.Funny, even a child Knows
Who are we to think we can know the Creators Wisdom? Who are we to think we can even grasp His Magnitude and Everlasting Love? We are but ants trying to get by in a fragile world. We think we are so secure in our technology and systems. One little storm and our systems fail, one scientific discovery and we insult our brother and sisters. Oh, us who hate, who thieve to feed the flesh, one day when we actually grasp forgiveness and love, then we will live in peace with our neighbors.
1- Looking it over, the statement I would challenge is "I know my God exists." which is the the real knowledge claim. so thank you for the clarification.
2- I do not remember having a desire for god(s). Except possibly briefly during my Greek mythology period (lol) and like nearly everyone I went through a "spiritual phase" That was luckily quite short as my bullshit limit was quickly reached.
1- I see the statement "my God exists" as a statement of knowledge not belief, so like I any claim of fact I would ask how they knew that as I said. The statement "I believe in God" is not the same,
2- On the assumption that you meant have I ever sought evidence as to why chocolate tastes the way it does (beliefs about the taste of chocolate?), then no I haven't but I may look it up now that you mention it. (cont')
Questions in order:
1- I have no particular wish to challenge a person's belief in God (the reason I said "if") However if I was told that "My God exists" I would ask how they knew that.
2- I would want to see evidence as it would be an expansion of my own knowledge, this is why I would ask "why" in any situation.
3- I am not sure I understand this question, can you expand on this? Did you mean what are my reasons for wanting evidence?
4- again this would be an expansion of my knowledge.
No, The person making a positive claim i.e. "my God exists/I believe in Superman/Darth Vader is the Devil/etc..." is taking on a burden of proof if challenged on it as you say towards the end. If I were to challenge a theist on the existence of their god(s) It would mean that I want proof not belief. And no I do not see a need for gods but if I was presented with positive proof I could accept the concept as i am not closed-minded (not holding my breath though).
Well, the questions were re - summerized in the post you just responded to without answering again .I have acknowledged that one may disbelieve any assertion (fairy tales and such) however you have failed to acknowledge the inability to (or LACK of) ability to disbelieve something out side of ones awareness. You may not know if there IS a god, but you do know if you are AWARE of a god, which was the 1 question you sort of tried to answer.
You have repeatedly left point blank questions un-answered in several posts.
So here it is in a nut shell.
If you are unaware of x can you have a belief in it ?
If yes; How ?
If no; do you LACK that belief ? (hint if you don't have something you lack it)
Are you aware of a god ?
If yes; Evidence please.
If no; you can't do anything but LACK belief if you are not aware.
Can you honestly answer these questions and still hold your position ?
You are apparently so busy trying to see things your way,that you can't even read a word definition without applying your own qualifier to it. weather you know you lack something or don't know has no bearing on weather you lack it. Period.Look it up. End of story. On the other hand to dis believe something you must first have something to dis-believe. For the 2nd time point blank; are YOU aware of a god to disbelieve ?
I was trying to mention how you missed the conclusion (I am a snark-machine at times). Regarding the question you raise: I cannot prove he is deluded, but in the case you put forward I do not have the burden of proof as I have not made the positive claim "Zeus is real." if I said that "Zeus does not exist" rather than "I do not accept any god without evidence" then I would have a heavy burden of proof (especially as this deals in the supernatural).
You are the one adding that prerequisite to the word. you don't have to have had an ipod to lack one. seriously think about it a little before you go on. I'll even use it in a sentence for you. The pioneers would have enjoyed ipods on their journey across the plains, but they LACKED them. Without even knowing about them they LACKED them. Know why ? Because they didn't have them. How can this possibly not be clear to you ? There's no loophole.
Its not a complicated word. LACK Just means something you DON'T have. You are looking for loophole that doesn't exist.
lack
[lak] Show IPA
noun
1.
deficiency or absence of something needed, desirable, or customary: lack of money; lack of skill.
2.
something missing or needed: After he left, they really felt the lack.
verb (used with object)
3.
to be without or deficient in: to lack ability; to lack the necessities of life.
4.
to fall short in respect of: He lacks three votes to win.
Well If you don't know about something, can you believe in it ? calling it Ignorance is really just playing semantics as you pointed out. There is no twist. You are missing the simplicity of it. You, like I have heard many fairy tales of supposed gods; these you may dis-believe if you like. I am not aware of an ACTUAL god, Therefore I do not dis-believe. I Lack belief.
There is nothing to not believe, Like the ipod to early native
Americans.
Ahhh, but even if some (especially coastal) speculated,it did not change their "ignorant" or agnostic state, nor would it change their sphere of knowledge.
This is precisely the point, speculating on something not within your knowledge does not set up a false dichotomy of choosing to believe or not believe. I don't disbelieve there are fairies in the garden I lack belief in fairies of any kind.
"Our universe is composed of spacetime so our definition of material is currently that which exists within our universe."
Which is why I define a God that requires its existence to be outside of our universe to be, as currently defined, non-existant, ie not within existence.
" Anything outside spacetime is, for all intents and purposes, immaterial, yet that doesn't mean nothing exists outside of it."
Yet we no evidence of anything exiting outside of spacetime.
Just keeping things on you level, take a look at your first comment to me. Do you suppose Native Americans of the 6th century dis-believed in Europe or lacked belief ? Just because something is not within your sphere of knowledge (making you agnostic) does not set up the false dichotomy of choosing belief or dis-belief. Don't start off pissy if you don't want a pissy response.
Good luck to ya too LOL.
well maybe G gemini and geminione3 are the same person (dunno for what reason, maybe banned or something).
i already talk to this person at much earlier post and this person pose him/her self as agnostic and then said that he/she lack of belief god exist (atheist) and lack of belief god not exist.
whats funny is this person wanted to talk/discuss god, isnt that hilarious?
an agnostic atheist who are also theist and possibly gnostic. go figure.