S&W Carry Comp Part-2: New vs Old
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- Опубліковано 8 кві 2022
- S&W Carry Comp Part-1: The Definitive Review • S&W Carry Comp Part-1:...
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/ @hrfunk - Розваги
Can’t wait to see this one. I’ve spent this year so far adding to my S&W collection pretty hard. I just picked up a model 52 in .38 special wad cutter this week.
FYI: part of the reason the unlocking on older smiths is so smooth is that the latch pressed on a spring loaded rod that runs the entire length of the ejector rod and presses on the locking detent at the front of the rod.
This was omitted on the new K frames to allow for a thinner ejector rod, which allows for a smaller yoke and results in not needing to flatten the bottom of the forcing cone.
Now it all makes sense. Thanks for the info.
@@hrfunk if you compare the old K frames and new ones you'll notice the distinctly thinner ejector rod.
Meanwhile the L frames keep the standard style ejector rod and front ejector rod locking detent.
I noticed the thinner rod, but I didn’t fully grasp the reason for that change.
The modern iteration seems solidly built, but I do miss the old school bluing. Looks like you have the best of both worlds & you gave it a much better name in CCCM, too!
Call me a Fudd, but I LOVE my wheeliegats! My two favorites are a model 10-5, and a model 28-2, both of which were manufactured in the 1970's.
There’s much to love about good wheelguns.
@@hrfunk I couldn't agree more. "Why carry a revolver? They're antiquated, low capacity, and Heavy!"....That's an Easy answer; I Shoot Them WELL. 6 shots of .38/.357 magnum Well Placed trumps 17 rounds of 9x19 MISSED. 👍🏻😉
Those Altamount grips are beautiful.
I've got VZ grips on my Smith's that came with rubber grips.
But a set of Altamounts on my 44 mag Blackhawk.
Really well made grips and I doubt I could duplicate the finish if i tried.
I have a model 19-3 2 1/2 inch made in 1970 and it's outstanding. It has a butter smooth trigger and also, as an older shooter, I love the white line around the rear sight. No wonder it's a tack driver. I find the three inch barreled revolvers are the most accurate and also the fastest to get on target. I can see why your 66 is the favorite!
I love the blue guns, my 1972 era S&W 19 Combat Magnum 2.5" round butt was my second off duty gun acquisition. Later obtained a Model 66 2.5" but favored the blue. The Carry Comp is a revolver I have had an interest in. Like the night sights but think I may opt to get the white outline rear. Great review. I have a performs center S&W Model 629 2.6" .44 Magnum but primarily use Buffalo Bore 180 grain JHP .44 Special ammo in the gun. Outstanding action very smooth like my old Model 66 it gets better with use and dry firing as if tuned.
What's your thought on painting the front sight on the Carry Comp? I've been considering a base of matte white with fluorescent orange (2-4 coats) over that. I did that on a 442 and the front sight just jumped right out. As long as you're careful not to cover the tritium lamp, I think it might work well.
I pulled the pin in ‘97 w/30 yrs and was restricted to issued weapons by agency rules. My favorite revolver was the 4” S&W Model 15 & I wish I’d purchased it when we phased in the stainless Model 64. Kids & a mortgage got in the way of that unfortunately. My favorite gun in my personal collection is a 1973 4” Model 66, also pinned & recessed. Good video . . . .
I know what you mean. Too bad that one got away. Thanks for watching!
This was like revolver education 101 for me! Perhaps I need to start shopping for one. All the Best HR!
Yes I like the old school revolvers also,I have had them and still have a old pencil barrel model ten. But I also have two re-buys, S&W 586,629, classics great guns for the price and will surely be around longer than me, action lock and all. 🙂
The new Combat Magnums have the full circular reinforced forcing cones as well. I have the model 66-8 (2.75") and love it!
Yep. I mentioned that in the video. I'm glad you like your 66!
I was after a 3" model 13 for a "do-all" sidearm, but have been considering one of these carry comps. This has been a great series so far.
The Tyler "T grip" makes a world of difference also! The white outline and red ramp sights also look really nice on a 1911 ala early competition pistols.
I can second the quality of the Tyler T-Grip! It makes double action a lot more comfortable
@@VariableRecall Totally agree! functional and looks good blue or silver. Very "professional" look to the pistol.
Excellent and detailed comparison between the old and new! Thanks for taking the time to produce it. 👍
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
I tried the VZ grips on mine, and so far while you can feel the recoil, no sharp edges to cut you. 357 Mag in 125 gr loads was easy. I know they aren't as nice looking as the altamonts, but they are still pretty decent.Thanks again for the great content.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
Great video man! Out of all of S&W’s newer revolvers the 19 carry comp looks the badest of them all!
I have the older models including a no dash as well as the one year Ladysmith 66. I purchased the 66 - 8 when initially released. It did have one issue that they forgot to cut forcing cones in their first run and had to be returned for that issue. Besides that initial hiccup I find it a much more durable weapon in every measurable way for self-defensive use. Mine has digested thousands of rounds of Full House 357 as well as countless rounds of 38 special and plus p and is as tight as the day it was purchased. I find it to be the best concealed carry revolvers on the market today that will cover any type of situation one would encounter short of needing a rifle. My cylinder gap .0003 go, .0004 no go, on all chambers.
Your comment about the recoil coming straight back into your hand with a comp revolver is quite valid. The energy has not been dispersed; it has been redirected. The only other option is to fit a true muzzle brake to soften recoil and muzzle rise, but at the expense of a greatly annoying any shooter standing nearby.
Well done, with feeling, Chief. We can love the old ones but carry the newer models. My Model 19-4, with
Another great video. I love the older Smiths. My oldest is also a 19-3 in 4" and the finish is dazzling. It came from an estate sale and looks new in the box. Today I'll be out with my new Carry-Comp, the 19-3 (only shooting .38s) and a new Classic 586 which has the bright finish too. The cylinder stop on the K-Comp bit my thumb until I switched to the older Combat Magrum grips similar to your Altamount grips. Again, thanks for your thoughtful videos.
You’re welcome! How do you like your Carry Comp?
@@hrfunk It's a nice carry. It rides high and is soon forgotten on my side. I have carried a 3" 686+. It's a tad too heavy for all day comfort but it does handle the full power rounds a little better then the K-Comp. I alternate with a CZ PCR which is my favorite auto carry. Also a fine pistol.
Very nice. No worries, I wear one of my old First Sergeant Polo shirts now and then even though retired.
New barrel style has nothing to do with tighter tolerance of cylinder gap. All barrel connection types need forcing cone final cut. The final cut is what deternines the gap.
Good work with this series of videos. It is great result for out of box Carry comp (except 1st sample of gun).
Thank you. My understanding of the barrel assembly on these new revolvers is that they are simply screwed into proper position to establish the desired B/C gap. I have been lead to believe no further filing of the forcing cone is necessary. There is nothing on/around the forcing cone of my Carry Comp to indicate any filing. If you’re aware of something I’m not, please let me know.
@@hrfunk In theory you can screw the barrel to desired gap but then you vary torque-> barrel stress. For good function=no loosening of barrel and long lifetime=no overstress the barrel, you need to stay within certain tightening torque. I have never seen any shim (spacer) between end of barrel and its shroud. S&W is mass productioned and not expensive (compare to Korth for example) so you cannot expect such high precision of several component to be within +/- 0,002" tolerance of cylinder gap. Without final cutting or shiming you need to precise manufacture barrel shroud, barrel, frame window, ejector, cylinder. That is impossible in real world. Much easier is to slap everything together and precisely cut forcing cone lenght to desired gap.
Anyway, 2 piece design is cheaper to manufacture with no drawback for user (in my opinion).
I previously watched your video on your cross draw holster. I had been looking for one for a while. I used your link and purchased one for my S&W Shield plus. It took a while to get here but I love it. Thank you for that video.
You’re welcome Sam. I hope that holster works well for you. Ironically, I just got another crossdraw holster for my Carry Comp revolver. It seems I’m using that type of holster more and more. In fact, I’m thinking about featuring crossdraw holsters in an upcoming video.
@@hrfunk Looking forward to seeing that video.
In 1976 l was issued a S&W 15-6 This was a big change for me as l came from a Colt background. Many years later l bought my own and even though I’m quite a few years older than you i can still shoot a decent group with it. I own many Colts this is only my second S&W . It is a great revolver
In the armory of my former department there was an ancient Model 15. It had probably been an officer’s duty sidearm sometime in the past but it was so long ago that even the oldest members of the department couldn’t remember who had carried it.
One day while rummaging around in the armory I came across a box of .38 wadcutter target ammo (I don’t remember the brand). So I decided to take the old Model 15 out to the range and see what it would do. Frankly, I was amazed by the groups that old wheelgun would print with the target ammo. Therefore, I have no doubts as to the accuracy of your Combat Masterpiece.
I still miss my 2 & 1/2 inch Model 19. My 3 inch 686 plus is great, but it's not a Model 19.
I know what you mean. I like my 686, but I have a soft spot for the Combat Magnums.
Really enjoyed that, Howard. Thank you!
You’re welcome Mark. Thanks for watching!
Outstanding thank you for your service!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
I truly enjoyed the comparison of the new Carry Comp and the older compact magnums. They are all beautiful revolvers. Thanks for the information and have a great day.😊
You're welcome Keith. Thanks for watching!
What an awesome video!!! The best all around comparison between the modern and vintage K frames I've seen on YT. Wow, I switched to the modern "Comps" for carry for the same reason -- preserving my blued Model 19-3. Nice 158 grain handload, BTW!
I've found that most factory "magnum" loads are rated out of a 6" barrel, so you usually get 38spl-38+P (or pocket 9mm) performance out of the snubbies. You could go with an Underwood load, like their 125 grain HP that clocks in at 1700 fps, but out of that Carry Comp, it's going to likely waste 300-450 fps of energy, much of which is going to blast out of the comp and potentially blind you in low light. Not to mention, just a waste, in general. And OMG, the recoil out of a snubbed K-frame is not going to allow you to get back on target quickly enough in a SD situation.
I lucked on to the Barnes 125 grain TAC-XPD a few years back. It's an all-copper bullet, and rated at 1200 fps out of a 2" barrel. Meaning, even with the comp, you're going to actually have a round traveling at over 1200 fps, probably like firing a Golden Saber out of a 4" barrel. I've carried it in my 586 L-Comp confidently for the past 3 years or so. I've also found that round to be pretty soft-recoiling in the Model 19 Carry Comp and 586 L-Comp. I don't know how Barnes did it, but IMO, it's worth the extra money when my life is potentially on the line.
I was pretty happy with my handloads. 1125 fps with a 158 grain bullet at defensive ranges should work quite well. If I can find a factory load to equal that, I’ll be pretty happy.
@@hrfunk My link was removed. Underwood has 2 158 grain HP loadings at 1500 fps, one with a Nosler HP, the other with a Hornady XTP. I believe they test from a 5" barrel.
Thx for the great video!!! Agreed on the coolness of the Combat Magnum name, but my favorite is the Combat Masterpiece!
I don’t blame you. That’s another great name!
Excellent comparison! You detailed differences through example instead of only talking about them, which seldom happens with YT gun channels.
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it.
This may be your best video ever; the detail was excellent, precisely explained, and extremely appreciated. And, fwiw, I entirely agree with your conclusions re both your superb M66 and this new M19 PC Carry Comp (your M66 really is a VERY special firearm).
As you’re aware, I had some concerns regarding your new PC/M19’s muzzle velocity losses, due to the Carry Comp’s ported barrel. However - and this was very enlightening for me - the incredibly small cylinder gap certainly seems to offset the compensator’s hot-gas pressures losses to a considerable degree. I have not been a particular fan of two-piece barrel designs, but - thanks to this video - I now have a much greater understanding of their advantages (other than the obvious manufacturing simplicity and concomitant coat benefits).
And I have a question regarding the M19/M66 design evolution. It appeared to me that the Carry Comp’s top strap might be SLIGHTLY thicker than earlier M19’s and M66’s (closer to L Frame robustness). If that’s true (??), then the Carry Comp’s (and other “more modern” 19’s and 66’s) enhanced durability might result from both top strap and full barrel design changes. Is there any validity to the thought that modern K Frame top straps have been marginally altered?
Thanks so much for this outstanding video!
I’ll have to measure that and get back to you.
@@hrfunk
THANKS, but please don’t go to any special effort.
Excelent video. I enjoyed every minute of it. I definitely like your older 66 and 19. Very nice guns. Worth preserving. As for the engineering, all engineering is about compromise and learning from past experience. It is still more art than science, even though there is most definitely science behind it (everything has a number attached to it). One thing I will say about the new carry comp is that there is a benefit to it not being so pretty. You said it yourself. You won't beat yourself up about a scratch or chip on the finish here and there which is an inevitability with carry. I feel the same way about my M&P340. I like it very much. But it is a plain old utility gun. The rather mundane matte black finish already has some marks on it. Although there is one shiny mark I want to put some Birchwood Casey on to dull it.
It's an interesting thing that throughout the history of mankind, martial weapons have been decorated and treasured in ways that hammers and axes have not. I guess not all tools are equal.
No, I guess not. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!
Great video. Wish so many new shooters would get into real gunning and away from the hype that most people post.
I have an old 19-3, ex cop-carry from family member after he passed. 2.5 inch. (not sure which law enforcement dept he was in) A lot of the bluing gone, but it is still tight and has an awesome trigger (as all SWs do, especially older ones) I am not getting it reblued. Just keep it as my office drawer gun. Have shot it a couple of times just to be sure all is well with it. This 19-3 is pinned and recessed.
My 686 Classic Hunter 6 inch is my shooter. Did I mention I love SW wheelguns?
That Model 19 is a fine old revolver. I really like mine too!
Many Thanks
You’re right, that’ll make an excellent carry revolver. Not much you can’t do with a .357. I never felt undergunned when my duty weapon was a .357. Also, I loved the classic retro touch of the Tyler T grip on the M19. They’re getting rather hard to find as well.
The ability to have a 357 option when needed makes a 3 inch k frame a great carry option. For self defense , without blast of of a magnum, the 38 plus p Buffalo Bore gas check lhp , hits like a sledge hammer, and faster than about any similar weight 357. Around 1100 fps out of a 3 inch barrel, controllable in rapid fire. For belt carry a three inch revolver balances well , points well , gives you full length extractor, and higher velocity than a 2-2 1/2 incher. If I was carrying a revolver in a belt holster it would be my 3 inch barrel S&W 65or model 10. Tough call would be my 3 inch Colt DS2 . One of around 500 made in 97. If I was buying a 3 inch ccw revolver new today, would go for the 3 inch King Cobra. It is basically a new version of the DS2. The DS2 was basically a 3 inch Magnum Carry, with the beefed up frame and had the Magnum Carry cylinder bored to 38. The new King Cobra has a slightly stronger frame and barrel, which on the 3 inch 357, is one piece.
Very informative video HR? Kinda like the model 66 alot! The Carry Comp I am sure you will get to enjoy more and more! Thank you so much for the content! Very enjoyable!
You're welcome Dan. Thanks so much for watching!
I love my 2.75" mid-1980s Model 66.
It would be known as a TACK DRIVER too.
Back at the range at work, when shooting off-duty, it was faster and more accurate than others with semi-autos.
I believe it. Good shooting Stan!
I have one of those too and it’s crazy accurate. Picked it up around 15 years ago used for $350!
To work the comp efficiently, compare your 158 loads with 125 gr loads of the same power factor. Stay away from 110 gr loads they will erode the forcing cone and firing pin bushing.
Great Vid Chief.
Thanks Chriss!
Beautiful wheelguns!!!
Thank you!
The new K-frames aren't bad looking guns at all, and I like that detent lockup (reminiscent of a GP100) and full forcing cone. I don't like the re-contour of the back of the frames near the hammer on the newer K-frames, and I won't buy a new S&W with a lock in it as a matter of principle, but MIM parts never bothered me, nor did un-recessed chambers or unpinned/two-piece barrels (though I still think the one-piece barrels look nicer from the business end). Congrats on having this piece in your collection, especially after the patience it probably took to wait this long!
I am looking at a new carry wheel gun. My trusty model 10-6 that I love is the same. Most accurate handgun I own. I want to keep it but do not want to be stuck for parts or breakage after all these years (my old duty gun when I first started, yes, I am old). The Carry comp looks to be a viable alternative. I only worry about shooting from a retention position. Then again, I have already screwed up if that is the case. Thanks for the eval.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
CCCM, combat carry comp magnum, your right mr funk best gun name ever! Wheelies forever...also prayers to that gun store owner, wife and grandson killed in Georgia, brutal
15.45 Your confirmation of the frame top dimension comparison of the 3 revolvers is also factored in by the diameter of the ejector rod. The 19-6 is a solid thinner Colt style while the traditional revolvers have a hollow ejector rod for internals of the lockup mechanism at the front. This saves space in the newer gun to use the thicker frame. My 66-8 with 2,75 inch barrel is also less smooth than the traditional style cylinder lock ups as you detected because of that lock on the yoke. To counteract the resistance to open the cylinder, with leverage, I installed an oversized thumb latch from Hogue. Nevertheless those older guns are much smoother with either style of OEM thumbpieces.
I don’t really think the extra pressure required to open the cylinder is a problem. I just wanted to mention it so people would be aware of the difference. Thanks for watching and thanks too for the comment!
@@hrfunk I concur, just observing that the prior locking system was much easier to engage/disengage especially one handed.
Great video as always! I just received 100 rounds of the Freedom Munitions 125 xtp’s and am disappointed with the velocity’s you were getting. I don’t have a chronograph but they do feel under powered. I get the same recoil out of old Winchester 110 grain sjhp’s so something is amiss!
At least the 125 grain FM’s performed better than the 158 grain loads. Between those two, I would prefer the 125’s for defensive use.
Nice run down on three great revolvers.
Two things I find annoying on my 66 no dash are the recessed chambers and the red ramp. The recessed chambers are just a little harder to clean, and over time my red ramp has faded to an orange ramp. On very sunny days it can be hard to see sharply.
Really? The ramps on my revolvers have faded slightly. But they are still perfectly usable.
That model 66 no dash is one beautiful revolver.
Thanks. I think so too!
I like the red ramp, would like to have that done to the M9, wich had a crappy white dot that I painted bright redpink. Nice collection! I’m not loving the flat black finish. Stainless or bluing for me!
I originally purchased my 4” barrel 357 Combat Magnum in December of 1965. It did not have any number designation.
Was it used when you bought it? After 1956 they should have had a model number stamped on the frame.
Very interesting comparison and I will forward it along. Now that you brought it up, you might as well delve into it a little deeper: what are your favorite carry loads for the snubnosed .357 Magnums? One of my favorite carry guns is a 3" Model 65, the stainless steel M&P in Magnum that was a favorite of DEA, while the similar M13 was an FBI issue gun.
In my older 19 and 66 I always preferred the Remington 125 gr. Golden Saber .357 Magnum ammo. It’s a mid-range load that performs well in the short barrel and doesn’t batter the K-frames.
@@hrfunk Thanks. Not seeing a lot of ammo selection in So Cal but going on a hunt for ammo next weekend when I visit another country.
Great video
Thanks Eddie!
Outstanding. HR, I will await your always thorough and articulate report eagerly. FWIW, I have read that compensation can reduce muzzle velocity by approximately 5+ percent and, with a three-inch barrel, I wonder if that makes ammunition selection a greater concern?
I'm going to be covering some chronograph results in tomorrow's video. At defensive distances, I don't think the velocity loss is much of a concern given good bullet selection.
I always prefer stainless, those blue guns rust up fast ,just coming inside after being in the cold and they will rust up fast and usually pit the steel,but I have many I will take out in the desert or eastern state.
Great video!
Thank you David!
Great Video! Carry Comp nice tight cylinder gap wonder if because PC or if all the newer made ones are tighter and therefore better velocity. My talo gp100 altamont grips had same issue probably cracked my thumb finally sanded edge down. My 77yr old LE vet friend Slick50 had a Chrome 19 I ploshed up for him and put Rosewood Altamont grips on I did videos on it's so beautiful. I just texted him to watch your vid. I gave some 158 freedom arms to Gun Sam to test...what crappy velocity. Cheers. P.S. just paint that front sight Neon Orange Nail Polish can always take off
Thanks DanN I think I saw the video you made with your friend’s M19. They’re great old wheelies. I can’t really do the nail polish thing due to the tritium insert in the front sight.
@@hrfunk just masking tape the tritium cut with razor? Paint over it half the blade no?
@@DanTheWolfman For now I’ll shoot it the way it is. If I decide I want to change the sights (or modify them) I’ll decide what I want to do in the future.
Morning HR. Another good video.
Do you think the longer sight radius on the 66 gives it better accuracy? Hopefully the tight cylinder gap on the Carry Comp doesn't bind up with lead bullets or dirty powders.
Maybe. I think the more visible sights helped too. I'll let everyone know if I rund into problems with lead or dirty powders.
You don't daily drive a 69 GTO. I understand why you bought a new model 19. Good idea. The 19-2 and the 66 are precious and should be saved for special occassions. Semper Fi! Keep up the good work.
Will do, Semper Fi
The tritium insert notwithstanding, I would immediately paint the front ramp sight red. The difference looks dramatic (to 70 year old eyes). Personally, I prefer the appearance of the Carry Comp's satin finish to the shiny finishes.
what do you think of the 44 special bulldog style revolvers, for defensive purposes and range fun?? 357 is nice I'd prob load 38 specials out of it for defense, and full power for fun. the black one with the white grip is the one i would prefer going by looks, out of the 3. the polished steel next, that's a nice piece to.
Thanks! I like the Bulldog revolvers. I've only shot a couple of them, but they've been fine wheelies.
Where could I get my model 19 magnu-ported? Thanks for your video! Well done!
Mag-na-port International. A quick google search will reveal their website.
Let’s see, you get a new revolver with an industrial grade finish with the front sight back from the muzzle with a shrouded barrel plus the infamous Hillary Hole for roughly TWICE as much money. Sign me up. 😂
Twice the money? Maybe 1/3 more. Also, you forgot the ported barrel, tritium night sight, factory action tuning and both wood and rubber grips.
I love my Model 19 Carry Comp but have been looking for a different set of Grips... What exactly are you using? I was thinking about set of Crimson Trace with Red Laser. Thanks.
These are Altamont grips, but I don't think they make these exact ones anymore.
My favorite frame size is the K. I like the L and the N is still in progress. I ditched the J for the LCR. Maybe port the N instead of getting a new 66 Carry Comp
Hi HR, do you have any experience with the Model 60, specifically the Pro Series model? Its a little smaller than this one, i think they consider it a J-frame, but Fin Feather Fur has one in stock for 10% off that I'm considering. I already have a snubby 38 and a 4 inch Taurus 65 so I figure a middleground would be nice. I'm also looking at the Ruger SP101 & Colt King Cobra but the Ruger doesnt look as nice and I've heard of issues with the new Colts.
I’ve owned 2 Model 60s over the years. Both were 1 7/8” versions, and they were both great revolvers. By today’s standards they’re a little on the heavy, but they’re still not hard to carry. I’m not sure what’s different about the “Pro” model. Do you know what sets it apart?
Nice video. Are you going to put lighter springs in the carry comp to get the trigger pull reduced?
I don’t think so. I don’t want to run the risk of causing misfires.
Have you ever made a video about your hand loads? That would make for a nice video and lots of people talking about where they ended up with their wheel guns or also competition semi-auto loads. In separate videos for rifle or hunting if you do. I got a bit more interested in revolver hand loads watching Gun Sam videos for a few years now. Not that long ago I've seen the founder of GIGN (that used used .357 Magnum revolvers in their unit, training with full power magnum loads with very high round counts M73 builds) about effectiveness and he mentioned especially slow burning powders to get what he described as blowgun-effect and that penetration was less important than quick energy dump.
Unfortunately, a few years ago UA-cam restricted any sort of video dealing with creating ammunition. So you're not likely to see very many new reloading videos.
The Carry Comp would be the range gun the model 66 should be a carry gun. It won't get worn out carrying it in a holster. Shoot it with wadcutters. Just too dammed nice a gun to be a safe queen. That said the review was excellent and the Carry Comp is not as bad as what I thought it would show, with some range time I suspect groups will get smaller as you grow accustomed to the trigger. Good Luck and let's see a 1 year update
Thank you! Only 364 days to go until the update.
The Carry Comp seems like a decent revolver, although somewhat costly. But I'm not sure I can totally agree with your concerns about the potential for excessive wear or need for repairs on older S&W models. There aren't many great stresses upon revolvers (e.g. such as slide battering in SA pistols) and except for possible forcing cone damage or flame cutting from very hot magnum loads, in ordinary use they don't take too much of a beating - especially from 38 special rounds. There are many much older revolvers still functional and in regular use (e.g., a friend has a S&W model 1917 in 45 acp that is still going strong). Spare parts are often available for discontinued popular revolvers, and competent gunsmiths can even make some small parts such as springs, etc. Numrich carries many, but not all, parts for Model 66's. Given that you love the 66 so much, and good condition used Model 66's are selling for about the same price as a Carry Comp, why not just buy one as a spare or parts gun?
Certain things wear over time. Cylinder ratchets, hands, cylinder stop notches, etc. Sooner or later, that wear leads to timing problems. If hot ammunition is used, other problems like end shake can develop. Not only are the parts to repair such issues becoming more scarce, but so too are the individuals possessing the skill to do so. Along with the mechanical wear, there is also finish wear. As I mentioned in the video, I would prefer to keep my fine old Combat Magnums in pristine condition. If the matte finished Carry Comp suffers finish wear, I don’t really care, and if it develops mechanical issues it’s going back to S&W for repair under their lifetime service contract. That lifetime service is part of what your paying for with these newer wheelguns.
@@hrfunk All true. But I believe that most (older?) S&W's have gone many thousands of rounds before timing problems would occur. Parts can be a problem, but I agree that competent gunsmiths can be hard to find. It is likely that you shoot your revolvers much more often than I do mine, so that can be an issue. While I prefer to preserve the finish, at the same time I do like the "worn" appearances of 1917 models, or the WWII Victory revolvers which show "history". I agree that if one wants to keep a revolver in pristine condition, one has to minimize shooting it.
How does/would this fit in the jacket pocket?
I love the model 19 🤠🙌 they expensive now days
Yes they are. It’s hard to believe they were actually discontinued about 20 years ago.
I am curious about the carry comp and magna ported revolver: is muzzle blast an issue?
We used to hear speculation that the upward directed muzzle blast when fired from a retention position might blind the shooter.
I’ve heard that concern, but I’ve never heard of anyone in an actual shooting having that problem. Maybe I’ll try to come up with some sort of test.
Very nice video
Thank you Mike!
Love old school revolver! Model 66 vs the 686? How would that be? Great job
Thanks!
Another nice video. Looking at the difference in sights, I think that the Carry Comp's rear sight has a narrower opening than the other two guns. How much does that effect getting a quick sight picture? Maybe when you do a range session, you could check this out.
On the engineering changes, I think the detent for the cylinder lockup, the firing pin on the frame, and the two piece barrel are very good improvements.
I like the recessed cylinder. I have that on my Model 66 no dash like yours.
I noticed you positioned the Carry Comp differently than the Model 19 & 66 on the rest. The Carry Comp you rested the barrel on the bag, while with the Model 19 & 66 you rested your hands on the bag. Would this make any difference in accuracy?
I had a similar issue with the Altamont grips scraping my hand during recoil. I went with Hogue X/N/K/L rubber grips which, while not as nice looking, cushioned my hand very nicely.
I have a newer style SW revolver (SW 27 with 6 1/2" barrel). I tried adding Wolff spring kit (hammer and rebound spring) to change the trigger pull. It didn't work. I was getting light primer strikes. I called Wolff and talked to them. They indicated that using spring kits on the newer revolvers does not seem to work out well. They even offer a different firing spring spring to help with the primer strikes, but this did not help me either.
A very nicely done video. I am looking forward to a Carry Comp range shooting session and see if it is a tack driver!
Thanks!
Thanks! I don’t really think the rear sight notch on the Carry Comp is any smaller than the other two. It just looks that way because it lacks the white outline. In any case, I don’t think the rear sight had any detrimental effect on accuracy. I think the more visible front sight on the older revolvers might have helped some, but it’s hard to say for sure.
Regarding the position of the revolvers on the sand bags, I had to make that change (I didn’t intend to change when I started shooting). I was having all kinds of trouble with that rest. If you notice, there’s a transitional edit after every shot with the Carry Comp. That’s because after each shot I had to stop and reposition the bags/rest. The blast from the revolvers was also blowing the stuffing out of my bags (which is also visible in the video). When I started holding my hands on top of the bags it helped eliminate some of those problems.
Light primer strikes are precisely the reason I’m not changing out the springs on my carry comp. A few years ago (I think it was when they deleted the hammer nose) S&W changed the geometry of some of the internal parts of their revolves. As a result, replacement springs don’t work as well as they used to.
The range review will be up later this week. Stay tuned!
@@hrfunk Thanks for the response. I didn't know that about newer SW revolvers.
Though friends n coworkers consider me a shooting enthusiast, I defer to sme’s like yourself. Do you consider the key locks a detriment to revolvers? I’m a semi automatic guy due to ambulatory issues but appreciate all.
I don't care for their appearance, but I can pretty easily ignore them.
On this 3" Carry Comp, what is the actual "barrel" length, measured inside the shroud? Is it shorter than 3". Does the shroud make the outer-visual barrel length longer than 3"? Thanks for your info, and enjoy your vid's.
The actual barrel is closer to 2 1/2”.
Just not a fan of the Carry Comp front sight placement for sight radius and symmetry more so. I have a factory quad ported PC13 S&W got it right with that one.
I do think the engineering changes on lockup and barrel design are a great improvement maybe S&W can come up with a Magna Port design in the future. I do have a 686* TALO I have been very happy with it out of the box, great action. Mirror polished the trigger feels like it took a pound off the DA pull. No further mods needed.
Love those old coco bolo ACE grips on your 66!
Thank you!
I bought a 19c, probably have 300 rounds of 38 special through it. Both 158grn and I think 124grn, never could get any type of group. Had a friend who is a shooter and no group for him as well. Maybe the firearm would do better with the magnum rounds. Love the firearm besides the internal lock
I should shoot .38’s with acceptable accuracy too. I wonder what the issue might be.
@@hrfunk could be operators error, I’ll get some more range time this summer. Good day
My model 69 44 magnum says Combat magnum on the barrel so IDK why S&W would not have called the model 19 carry comp a combat magnum also
I didn’t realize the 69 was called a Combat Magnum. That strikes me as odd since it’s built on an L-frame. Thanks for the info.
You know I just thought I would like to see the carry comp run one of your police qualifications, to see how it would run in a tactical environment
That’s not a bad idea. I might give it a try.
Where did you get the grips for the model 66? That’s really nice!
I got them years ago during a visit to the S&W factory.
@@hrfunk Thanks! I’ll keep looking.
If you were going to the
Middle East and had a revolver for the battle, which one would be the best to have in wartime condition’s?
If I had to take a wheelgun, it would probably be one of the eight round clip - fed models.
What's your criteria for when you want to carry a wheel gun? TY
Most of the time it just depends upon the mood I’m in. There are certain times, such as when I’m out strolling through the woods and fields of rural Ohio, that a wheelgun just seems like the perfect companion. Also, in many instances, my titanium frame 342ti is my choice when I just need something to drop in my pocket when I’m running to the store.
I wonder if Mr. Funk will ever do a review on the Colt's Doble actions, new and old? I realize availability is somewhat reduced in comparison to S & W and Rugers. That Colt King Cobra sure looks sweet. So does the Python.
Maybe. But those Colts are pretty pricy.
@hrfunk too tru.
I take the old ones , all I been hearing lately is horror stories about these new ones , especially the newer barrels wearing out fast
The only bad thing a person can say about 2.5" 19/66 is that the ejector rod is not full length. Other than that they are not meant for heavy duty shooting....with the introduction of the L Frame guns! The 3 in M13 or 19/66 are the perfect carry K Frames!
That’s the biggest improvement I see in these new 19/66 models. They should now stand up to full power ammo as well as the L-frames.
Combat magnum may be the coolest name ever , but Combat Masterpiece is a very close second.
I agree!
Howard, good comparison videos between old and new revolvers. A couple of quick questions for you:
1. In handling the re-introduced Model 66, I noticed that it had a much more shallow rear sight notch than that found on either my 19-3 4-inch, or my 19-4 2.5 inch revolvers. I found it less than ideal for quick acquisition. Does this shallower rear sight exist on the Carry Comp as well, and is it noticeable to you? This may make it harder for you to simply replace your rear sight blade with one featuring a white outline if the sight heights are different.
2. The nominal .006 " barrel/cylinder gap on the older revolvers was there so that as the gun got dirty in the hands of the average cop, it would still function and not bind up. I know you are unlikely to allow any of your guns to get really dirty, but have you tested this, and if so, how did your gun fare? Eons ago, back in my S&W Armorers class, we were taught to reject any barrel/cylinder gap below .004" for this reason. I suppose this is less of an issue now because this expensive revolver won't be an issue item to rank and file cops.
3. I note that S&W now offers two versions of this revolver with less than a $50 price difference between them. Model Number 13323 has the 2.5 inch barrel, while the 12039 appears to have a 3 inch barrel at slightly higher cost. Which one did you get, and if you were buying now, which would you prefer?
4. Have you had the chance to do any close quarters retention firing or night fire with the Carry Comp? Do you get any flash coming upward from the muzzle at night, or any particulate matter coming up toward your face in retention positions? These used to be issues with compensated duty guns, and I wonder if this is still true with modern ammunition.
4. Just an observation. My 19-4 2.5 inch has a factory stock action to which nothing has been done. It's average SA trigger weight is 3 pounds, 5 ounces, and its average DA trigger is 9 pounds, 6 ounces. I wonder why a supposedly factory tuned action is so much heavier these days? Do you think you just got a heavy one?
I enjoyed both videos. I'm envious of your 3-inch Model 66!
Hi Tom!
The rear sight notch on the CArry Comp is indeed shallower than the M-66 and the M-19 I compared it too. I don't really notice that when I'm shooting it. What I do notice, and I may change this some day, is the lack of a white outline around the rear sight notch. I also wish there was something to add some visibility/contrast to the front sight. The trituim insert is nice for low light conditions, but it doesnt help at all in broad daylight.
I haven't let the CC get tremenduosly dirty, but I don't really expect any problems. I think the issue back in the day usually stemmed from the use of lead bullets. After enough soft lead adhered to the cylinder face, it could start to drag on the forcing cone. I doubt my Carry Comp will ever see lead ammo.
I did in fact get the 3" version, and I prefer it to the 2" model. The ballistics of my 3" Carry Comp exceed my 2.5" Model 19 (Even though the bullet travels through pretty much the same length of rifled bore). It also subjectively seems to feel and point a little better to me.
I haven't tried any low-light/close quaters shooting with this revolver, but I'm not too worried about it. I HAVE done so with my 3" mag-na-ported Model 66 and there were no problems. It he porting causes a concern, the revolver can be canted slightly outboard in a retention position to direct the gas safely to the side.
The action on my Carry Comp is improving rather dramatically with time and use. I would say it now feels the way I would expect a PC tuned action to feel. It is quickly becoming one of my favorite wheelguns to shoot. Check out the video I produced with it a couple of weeks ago to see how it's performing (Here's a link: ua-cam.com/video/g2axaRIy3T4/v-deo.html )
I love that M66 too! It's now semi-retired (like it's owner). It will be babied for the rest of it's life (or at least the rest of mine!)
Take care brother!
@@hrfunk Howard, thanks so much for the reply. I have a buddy here thinking of buying one, but he's buying online sight unseen. He plans to use it as his daily carry gun, hence many of my questions before he drops $1,250 on the gun. I'll let him know your responses.
Hope you can get a white outline rear sight or sight blade for your revolver. It's funny how both of us prefer that white outline while the rest of the world seems to advise blacking out rear sights with a Sharpie pen. My 2.5 inch Model 19 has the red insert front sight, but my 4 inch is plain black. I much prefer the red insert, and would not trade it for tritium unless that tritium sight had a high contrast "daylight ring" around it such as seen on Trijicon HD sights and others.
Years ago, just about any gunsmith could cut your front sight and install the colored insert, which you could buy from S&W or Brownells. I wish that were still true. I've painted the front sight on my 4 inch revolver and it works pretty well though. My 65 year old eyes need all the help they can get. Cheers!
My 2 1/2” M19 has the white outline/red ramp system. I too prefer that arrangement. The front sight of the Carry Comp is pinned in place, so that’s a fairly easy swap. Whenever I get around to doing it, I might just send it back to S&W and have them do it. Trying to find gunsmiths with knowledge and parts is becoming a chore.
I'm a huge k frame fan. Wish s&w didn't drop the15/67/64/65/13/12 rb. I know I could buy used but dang people think there gold .stuck carrying a j frame until something changes
Keep an eye out, they brought back several of them a few years ago in a “Classic” line. You might happen across one. Since they are newer revolvers they might not command the premium that the older wheelies do.
👍
The one glaring thing that I don't like at all on the new model 19 Carry Comp is the front sight being moved back from the muzzle. To me that really detracts from the looks of the gun.
Other people have made similar comments. That really does not bother me.
Sir, I’d like to inquire what grips are equipped on your K-Comp
They are grey laminate grips from Altemont.
@@hrfunk I appreciate your answer response, the grips look great on the revolver. Thank you for your time!
The Carry Comp may not be beautiful like the old K frames but at least it is not butt ugly like most Performance Center offerings. I think my only real complaint is how expensive these things have become.
It’s a very nice revolver, but I find myself gravitating towards the vintage, hand-fitted revolvers much more…
I like the left wheel. Are you a police officer？
I was until recently.
One little detail where I think S&W has really missed the bus is with those sights. I agree entirely with you about the superiority of the red ramp front/white outline rear in regular light. (Funny how all us "old" guys think that way, isn't it?) Now, if S&W had a lick of sense, they'd have integrated a tritium dot insert into that red ramp front sight design to give us the best of both worlds. It really shouldn't be that hard to do, should it? Instead, they chose to follow the trends. Therein lies the problem... S&W USED to SET the trends. And their "trends" lasted a VERY long time. Real world functionality never goes out of style. When (and WHY) did they decide to become followers, rather than leaders?
Re. the cylinder release: I remember reading at the time they first changed this, despite all the talk we hear about it being due to abrasion issues with the thumbs-forward grip, that it was actually specifically designed in order to facilitate smoother use of speed loaders, especially the newer, and larger, competition style "jet loaders", which tended to hang up on the older style release. From what I recall, a lot of competitive shooters started modifying their revolvers in this way, which got customers asking for it from the factory as those larger speed loaders found their way into common carry use.
Thanks Dale. I thought the same thing about incorporating the tritium vial into a red ramp front sight. Who knows? Maybe someday.
I think that you should carry the gun you shoot best.
Other considerationes are not important,especially if the other guns are in the same weight and size.
I’ll be demonstrating the Carry Comp in some defensive shooting drills during my next video.
Back in the day many departments had their officers train with .38 Special but then they carried .357 Magnum for duty. Did your Department do that? What are your feelings of such policy?
None of my departments did that. By the time I came along it was generally believed that officers should train with ammunition that replicated the recoil characteristics of their duty loads.
As to what I think of the practice, that might take some explanation. First, I’ll say that any shooting is better than no shooting at all. So, if the only thing someone has for practice is .38 Special ammunition, then they should use it to help develop their skills. It can also be useful to start new shooters with lower recoiling ammunition until they master the basics. Afterward, they can be introduced to more powerful loads. Ideally, however, someone training to prevail in a gunfight should replicate the circumstances of an actual armed encounter as closely as possible. That includes using ammunition that duplicates the performance of whatever load the shooter will carry in his/her firearm.
Did you retire, HR?
I like your old Model 19, except for the engraving on the grips it looks just like my 1974 version. I also use the Tyler T-grip on that gun, three J frame S&W revolvers I have, the Model 28 S&W that was a duty gun for me 9 years, and a Colt Official Police revolver I have. The modern "Boot grips" seem to provide the same thing. Leave the backstrap open, do not extend the butt of the grip and fill in the space behind the trigger guard. This adds nothing to the bulk for CC and fills the hand better.
My Model 19 was my primary off duty gun for many years. I rarely carry it anymore, but it is one of my favorite revolvers of all time. Aside from family heirlooms, if I had to choose ONE handgun to keep, I would be hard pressed to choose between the 4 Model 28 and the 2.5" Model 19.
I look forward to your shooting review
Thanks Gary. I semi-retired. I’m currently working part-time for a security firm. It sounds like you have a great stable of wheelguns. There’s just something about quality revolvers. I’m especially fond of my Combat Magnums. Thank you Bill Jordan!
@@hrfunk Sounds like you're not too good at being retired. I had the same issue for a few years. But, with more experience, I have gotten much better at being retired.
Yes, I am fortunate to have a very good collection of great revolvers. Most are S&W, but a few Colt's also. But the "newest" revolvers I have are several S&W Performance Center models I bought in the early 2000's. I haven't bought a "new" manufactured S&W since about 2003. My most recent acquisition was a S&W 17-4 .22 Masterpiece. This joins a Model 34 Kit Gun and Model 43 Kit Gun Airweight for my S&W .22 revolvers.
My wife and I are both avid shooters, and about 90% of what goes downrange from handguns is either .22 LRs from one of the S&W revolvers or my High Standard Supermatic Citation. We also have a pair of 1950s vintage Colt Officer's Model match revolvers in .38 Special. They eat a lot of cast wadcutters. I bought two of them, because when my wife got her hands on the first one, she wouldn't give it back!
I had 5 duty handguns and drawer full of off duty guns in a 36 year career and still have all of them. They still all get fired occasionally.
I have quite a few semi auto handguns and lots of rifles and shotguns also. 😁
I am looking forward to your shooting review, I see it has been posted. I'll check it out shortly.
Thanks for not forgetting the great revolvers!
There’s no way I could forget them. Thanks for watching!