Hey Hope there are no hard feelings there. MIg, TIg, lap butt Look at the repair and decide what is best for your time frame skill level and be real about it. When the car is done Be happy with the job you did and enjoy the car. Some day you might have a troubled area Just fix it then and see what you should have done and one up it. Just dont let that control your life.
I just make these videos to keep people in sense. Dont let the HOW make you not get your car done. Do what you can do and and make it look good. IMO if it looks good and lasts long the HOW doesnt even really matter much.
Mike, i'm 27 and working on my first restoration. 1974 Jeep CJ5. I have used both methods and have found uses for both in scenarios where i prefer one over the other. I have never taken any welding or auto body classes simply a jeep enthusiast and wanted to breath new life into old metal. I have learned everything from videos like yours, keep them coming! I know absolutely nothing about this work, but people like you keep the education free to people like me, thank you! This hobby became my outlet to do something i enjoy and can work on every single day.
Hi Mike, after hours or, let's say, days of watching videos and searching for the best way of doing the bodywork on my Fiat 850 Coupé from 1967, I finally found your channel and this video. Thank you so much! After this video, I turned off my computer and started working with a smile and confidence. Thinking about your message and stopped letting people piss me off. Like you do, I do my way. Greetings from Austria
Great life lessons here Mike. Too many waste years because they're scared to not do a perfect job meanwhile their project sits around for years and they end up selling it and losing their dream. Just get out there and do it, you'll learn as you go. Thanks for sharing your life experiences, time = life = family = what it's all about
yes sir, been working on my jeep tj for 2 years, been doing butt welds the whole time, in some spots I def could have done lap welds. Think I'll start playing around with lap welds now. Just need to find a flange tool to help make the panel flatter?
I am just happy to cut out the red'ish brown stuff, booger weld the holes shut and grind till shiney. I then stand back and grin like an idiot truly satisfied.
Right on Mike, get it done is what I like to see with any project. There are some folks who think will it run is all people care about. I like to see passion as a new project put into life, moving again, plus a smile on her with cosmetics.
Just watched your video and you have made me feel a whole lot better, I've got a 45 year old mini and have just completed a front sill and bottom door skin repair after watching loads of videos on welding panels they mostly advised butt welding but my skills as a welder are not brilliant ! So I decided to lap weld, and it turned out good , iwas stressing about doing the lap welds for so long that I wasted a week or so watching the perfection welders ! Your philosophy is great, you should be a shrink not a panel basher, thanks Mike for your great video
Mike this a very good lesson. I am 79 and have walked/squeezed around projects in my shop for 15 years, one only needs mild sanding and paint, it didn't even need panel repair, just paint.
Hi Mike, just came across this video and I have to say I couldn’t agree with you more, I am 50 and have been restoring cars for years now, I am a mechanic but I also do all the body work and pain myself, I take my time and work with the tools I have and I get the job done which is a great satisfaction, I know of people that want to do this do that, big blown motors and in the end the car is still stripped sitting in the back yard or the shed or even more they sell it, I keep it simple and what I can manage and they look great. Funny I am restoring a 1964 bug and I am welding rust panel work, my neighbour his son said it was all wrong and I should do it butt welded not overlapped, fair enough but this is how I can do it, manage and I get it finished nicely. I think there is no right or wrong. Thanks for your videos mate, you have a new Subscriber 👍
I'm a younger guy and I agree with you please keep on passing on your wisdom I really enjoy it younger people sometimes get too caught up in the right way of doing things LOL they don't realize that you can do it many different ways and have it last longer than both of our lives
Thanks for the video, I’m a younger guy and I’m just starting out with welding and I wanted to start off lap but I kept being told I shouldn’t. This really helps and gives insight, keep up the good work brother.
hey man your right there isn't any right way or wrong way. im 40 and every day im still learning. im always open to learning other ways to do a job. what ever gets the job done.
yea we didnt have a mig welder back my oldest days. We torch welded with putty around the area. Now all you have is a mig your behind. gotta have a tig. But do you really?
GOLD Truth, Brother!! welding in floorpans, myself right now on a tj wrangler... ended up lap welding, and some spot welding with seam sealer. getting it done!
Hi Mike great video great advice Lessons of a life time just the way I do,hope the yougsters take that advice,and I like the way of explaning with a great portion of humor Love It.Greetins,HCS.
Hey Mike. New to the channel here. I’m a young dude, 27, about to begin my first semester in the welding program @ my local community college. Also currently attempting my first restoration- a 71 super beetle with rusty channels. I’ve been at it for about a year now and as a newbie to all this have been wasting time sweating over the possibility of doing things wrong. Ain’t really into pissing matches despite my age however I often let my ocd get the best of me. Recently had the realization though that if I don’t just go for it and start doing shit to the best of my ability that it’ll never get it done and all the time and money spent on the car and parts up until this point will just be wasted. Really enjoyed the video and appreciate the wisdom & advice you have to offer. Looking forward to watching more of your content.
I agree with you Mike, to many people watch the shows on motortrend use to be velocity,... And think yeah I'll butt welded with TIG and I'll metal finish it to perfection..... All those build are six figure builds money and time is no object.... For a real person working with a budget and a time frame this is just not realistic, like you said what ever gets your car done is the most important thing if you have the skills to butt weld great...if you can lap weld and seal it right it'll out last most people's lifetime if you can you use a combination of methods good for you. I'm with you and your hand puppet stop the yapping get to work do the best you can and drive and enjoy your car!...... And if you have bill gates money go ahead and pay some one to build it for you! Nothing wrong with that. And there no such thing as perfection on earth!
Thanks for that. I needed to hear that. I have been working on my 240z's rear metal work and it's been taking forever to get it done. I'm just going to get it done. Thanks again.
You are absolutely right about Nothing lasts forever! Even high dollar cars have to be redone sometimes. Lap weld and Flange weld are a lot stronger than butt welds -> I AGREE
glad i watched. sounds like lap joint for what i doing will be the best choice. the metal cracked around the door latch, i had to cut out the stretched and broken area. a previous repair on this crack was...guess what...buttwelded 😂
I realize that it's apples & oranges... But, in my experience with steel repair has to do with 3/8" steel plate on the hull and bulkheads of the fishing boats I've worked on. And, yes, we often tack on a "doubler" and it's an obvious repair. Sometimes I've found myself cutting out the old doubler that has since rotted. Talk about a huge mess. With 20ga sheet on a car It would be different. Also, its not submitted to the abuse of marine conditions. But the decay will still creep on. But, like you said, in that case then you just cut it out and do the same thing all over again. It's a vicious cycle.
Some time its best to butt weld, some times it's best to lap. Personally the best joint is a joggle (flage weld). That way its a butt joint and a lap weld at the same time. It also minimises heat distortion. Also its better to weld. Mike fn garage your vw is totally rusted out beyond belief. If you but weld everything, you will never get it finished. I have to agree with you lap welds are fine and so is a butt joint. Keep up the good work.
thanks man so many people think you need to butt weld EVERYTHING. but it just depends on time budget and esthetics. I also think some guys should lap areas in crash area of the car for strength. These old tin can cars already dont take a hit. so many guys have this concern about moisture getting between the layers. I have never had to redo any of my work in my lifetime because of that probably because I dont winter snow drive anything old like these. would not recommend it either. Classics should be driven on optimum days. but driven. not sitting in a museum.
He mentioned Tig in the last video where he said it was more pliable and easier to hammer. Mig is stiffer but easier and for most everything it is fine.
both and tig is better but still gotta grind... and talk about more time. it really takes time to tig. Clean clean clean. working the foot pedal in a position not so comfortable. At my age that stuff is almost impossible unless on a rotisserie . and there goes more time. When your my age you think about time because you have less years left.
@canuckguy worried This is true.... I have the Everlast MTS 275 Lightning that does Mig, Tig, & Stick.... I also bought the Plasma cutter they offer.... I am doing a 71' C-10 right now and an 84" model.... I'll tell you somebody to check out that blows my mind but is super good and honest about everything he does..... and that is "Fitzee's Fabrication" ua-cam.com/video/nQtKGLMoFdA/v-deo.html
@@Mikefngarage I hear ya brother.... I'm only 35 about to be 36.... I appreciate you for you knowledge and explainations.... another good one is "Fitzee's Fabrication".... If you have never checked him out.... He has a super unique way of doing body work.... ua-cam.com/video/nQtKGLMoFdA/v-deo.html
My expirience the closer you finish on the metal the less you have to finish on the other end. Butt splice in the visible areas, lap in others where it doesn't need to be perfect.
I found butt welding nearly impossible on my current project as the metal has been sanded down over the years. Not matter what I tried I was burning through 10% of the time and attempts to correct the burn through just made things worse. Been Lap welding out of necessity and it is working very well.
My opinion is do whatever works best for you. Lap welding is a flat-out better weld with less warpage. Lap welding is harder to really back seal, vs butt welding. If you are making no attempt to back seal the weld either method will fail at the same rate. Tig welding would be far better (due to the nature of being a more rust resistant welding method) vs Mig. Compression spot welds are not prone to rusting, and that's why the manufactures use that method for lapped joints.
You can’t seam seal it from the inside . Anyways it took 60 years to rust ( not welded ) so it should last over 20 years if lap welded ( without even weld through primer )
So even you say butt welds are the very best and longest lasting option. If you want to save money, time and can be happy with a lesser product, go ahead and do lap joints. Some people want and are willing to pay for the very best while others just don’t care. I know which car I would rather own.
some butt welds are better some laps are better. Just depends on the repair, time line, strength. Both last Exactly the same. There is no difference there. Just depends on your ability skill level budget and time line.
Hey Hope there are no hard feelings there. MIg, TIg, lap butt Look at the repair and decide what is best for your time frame skill level and be real about it. When the car is done Be happy with the job you did and enjoy the car. Some day you might have a troubled area Just fix it then and see what you should have done and one up it. Just dont let that control your life.
Another great video, Mike. Your narration style is the best, really enjoy your channel! 👍
I just make these videos to keep people in sense. Dont let the HOW make you not get your car done. Do what you can do and and make it look good. IMO if it looks good and lasts long the HOW doesnt even really matter much.
Mike, i'm 27 and working on my first restoration. 1974 Jeep CJ5. I have used both methods and have found uses for both in scenarios where i prefer one over the other. I have never taken any welding or auto body classes simply a jeep enthusiast and wanted to breath new life into old metal. I have learned everything from videos like yours, keep them coming! I know absolutely nothing about this work, but people like you keep the education free to people like me, thank you! This hobby became my outlet to do something i enjoy and can work on every single day.
Love your philosophy. You're basically saying, have fun, which is sometimes lost within the car hobby community
Hi Mike,
after hours or, let's say, days of watching videos and searching for the best way of doing the bodywork on my Fiat 850 Coupé from 1967, I finally found your channel and this video.
Thank you so much! After this video, I turned off my computer and started working with a smile and confidence. Thinking about your message and stopped letting people piss me off. Like you do, I do my way.
Greetings from Austria
Mike, I like your knowledge on speaking. You keep it real and tell it like it is.
Great life lessons here Mike. Too many waste years because they're scared to not do a perfect job meanwhile their project sits around for years and they end up selling it and losing their dream. Just get out there and do it, you'll learn as you go. Thanks for sharing your life experiences, time = life = family = what it's all about
yes sir, been working on my jeep tj for 2 years, been doing butt welds the whole time, in some spots I def could have done lap welds. Think I'll start playing around with lap welds now. Just need to find a flange tool to help make the panel flatter?
View # 1,340 at 6:40 AM on 11/16/20 - NJ....I'm 58 and I still learn something new everyday.
I am just happy to cut out the red'ish brown stuff, booger weld the holes shut and grind till shiney. I then stand back and grin like an idiot truly satisfied.
Wow Mike, great wise words regarding pissing match type of work and car ownership philosophy!
Mike you are so right. Age builds wisdom and you have become a master in your field and teacher.
Right on Mike, get it done is what I like to see with any project. There are some folks who think will it run is all people care about. I like to see passion as a new project put into life, moving again, plus a smile on her with cosmetics.
Just watched your video and you have made me feel a whole lot better, I've got a 45 year old mini and have just completed a front sill and bottom door skin repair after watching loads of videos on welding panels they mostly advised butt welding but my skills as a welder are not brilliant ! So I decided to lap weld, and it turned out good , iwas stressing about doing the lap welds for so long that I wasted a week or so watching the perfection welders ! Your philosophy is great, you should be a shrink not a panel basher, thanks Mike for your great video
MAN I REALLY NEEDED TO HEAR THIS.... JUST BEING HONEST!!!!
Get it done! 👍😎👍
and your on it.
Came for the opinion on welding,left with the whole picture life lesson and project completion. Well said..
Mike this a very good lesson. I am 79 and have walked/squeezed around projects in my shop for 15 years, one only needs mild sanding and paint, it didn't even need panel repair, just paint.
Wise words from someone who gets stuff done!
Hi Mike, just came across this video and I have to say I couldn’t agree with you more, I am 50 and have been restoring cars for years now, I am a mechanic but I also do all the body work and pain myself, I take my time and work with the tools I have and I get the job done which is a great satisfaction, I know of people that want to do this do that, big blown motors and in the end the car is still stripped sitting in the back yard or the shed or even more they sell it, I keep it simple and what I can manage and they look great. Funny I am restoring a 1964 bug and I am welding rust panel work, my neighbour his son said it was all wrong and I should do it butt welded not overlapped, fair enough but this is how I can do it, manage and I get it finished nicely. I think there is no right or wrong. Thanks for your videos mate, you have a new Subscriber 👍
I'm a younger guy and I agree with you please keep on passing on your wisdom I really enjoy it younger people sometimes get too caught up in the right way of doing things LOL they don't realize that you can do it many different ways and have it last longer than both of our lives
Thanks for the video, I’m a younger guy and I’m just starting out with welding and I wanted to start off lap but I kept being told I shouldn’t. This really helps and gives insight, keep up the good work brother.
hey man your right there isn't any right way or wrong way. im 40 and every day im still learning. im always open to learning other ways to do a job. what ever gets the job done.
Great advice i agree. This can go for a lot of other hobbies as well.
Totally agree mike, the old fella's didn't even have mig or tig, I was tought to use oxy and acetylene by an old fella's when I was 16.
yea we didnt have a mig welder back my oldest days. We torch welded with putty around the area. Now all you have is a mig your behind. gotta have a tig. But do you really?
“Get the Car DONE !!! “ thanks for the advise . 👍👍👍
Spot on mate. Be safe. Greetings from london
Just came across the video today. Now subscribed! Thanks for the info, and your opinion on the subject. It was just what I needed to hear.
GOLD Truth, Brother!! welding in floorpans, myself right now on a tj wrangler... ended up lap welding, and some spot welding with seam sealer. getting it done!
Great advice mike. In the process of rebuilding the Veep body. At 68 years old, just get it done and move on.
Hi Mike great video great advice Lessons of a life time just the way I do,hope the yougsters take that advice,and I like the way of explaning with a great portion of humor Love It.Greetins,HCS.
Hey Mike. New to the channel here.
I’m a young dude, 27, about to begin my first semester in the welding program @ my local community college.
Also currently attempting my first restoration- a 71 super beetle with rusty channels.
I’ve been at it for about a year now and as a newbie to all this have been wasting time sweating over the possibility of doing things wrong.
Ain’t really into pissing matches despite my age however I often let my ocd get the best of me.
Recently had the realization though that if I don’t just go for it and start doing shit to the best of my ability that it’ll never get it done and all the time and money spent on the car and parts up until this point will just be wasted.
Really enjoyed the video and appreciate the wisdom & advice you have to offer.
Looking forward to watching more of your content.
do fast but still get the quality done. there is a happy middle ground you will find.
I agree with you Mike, to many people watch the shows on motortrend use to be velocity,... And think yeah I'll butt welded with TIG and I'll metal finish it to perfection..... All those build are six figure builds money and time is no object.... For a real person working with a budget and a time frame this is just not realistic, like you said what ever gets your car done is the most important thing if you have the skills to butt weld great...if you can lap weld and seal it right it'll out last most people's lifetime if you can you use a combination of methods good for you. I'm with you and your hand puppet stop the yapping get to work do the best you can and drive and enjoy your car!...... And if you have bill gates money go ahead and pay some one to build it for you! Nothing wrong with that. And there no such thing as perfection on earth!
GREAT advice. Thanks. Just get it done...
Thanks for that. I needed to hear that. I have been working on my 240z's rear metal work and it's been taking forever to get it done. I'm just going to get it done. Thanks again.
Right on on your comments! You are doing an awesome job; no apologies, full steam ahead!
I'm doing a 76 F250 hood now. Cutting rust out lap welding and sealing. But weld you are grinding your weld away.
Most restorations need a refresh every 10 years.
even the best of them true. mine and the metal finish perfect ones.
Mike: Sooooooooooo True!
I really needed to hear this!!! Thank you!
You are absolutely right about Nothing lasts forever! Even high dollar cars have to be redone sometimes. Lap weld and Flange weld are a lot stronger than butt welds -> I AGREE
Right on mike.... FYI.. I am 61.... thanks. Bill’s Cool Projects
Short version, do what makes you happy and what you want to do on your own car.
Funny thing about bodywork is that that the more you know about the subject the less you feel you know.!
so true
Great talk! Wiseman
glad i watched. sounds like lap joint for what i doing will be the best choice. the metal cracked around the door latch, i had to cut out the stretched and broken area. a previous repair on this crack was...guess what...buttwelded 😂
Right on
Wise words
totally agree
New to welding any tips on restoring wheel arches with basic tools and a tig welder
Awsome man. You are so right
I realize that it's apples & oranges... But, in my experience with steel repair has to do with 3/8" steel plate on the hull and bulkheads of the fishing boats I've worked on. And, yes, we often tack on a "doubler" and it's an obvious repair. Sometimes I've found myself cutting out the old doubler that has since rotted. Talk about a huge mess. With 20ga sheet on a car It would be different. Also, its not submitted to the abuse of marine conditions. But the decay will still creep on. But, like you said, in that case then you just cut it out and do the same thing all over again. It's a vicious cycle.
I agree, just get it done. amen.
Youth is wasted on the young... 😊👍👍
Well said.....all of it..
Well said!
The right way to do it for spot welding is the way learned from your earlier years.if you happy ,do it your way 😎👍
What are your thoughts on folks using 3M panel glues?
they work great I used them on several areas.
totally right, get the job done!
Some time its best to butt weld, some times it's best to lap. Personally the best joint is a joggle (flage weld). That way its a butt joint and a lap weld at the same time. It also minimises heat distortion. Also its better to weld. Mike fn garage your vw is totally rusted out beyond belief. If you but weld everything, you will never get it finished. I have to agree with you lap welds are fine and so is a butt joint. Keep up the good work.
thanks man so many people think you need to butt weld EVERYTHING. but it just depends on time budget and esthetics. I also think some guys should lap areas in crash area of the car for strength. These old tin can cars already dont take a hit. so many guys have this concern about moisture getting between the layers. I have never had to redo any of my work in my lifetime because of that probably because I dont winter snow drive anything old like these. would not recommend it either. Classics should be driven on optimum days. but driven. not sitting in a museum.
Are you talking about Tig or Mig on this brother??
He mentioned Tig in the last video where he said it was more pliable and easier to hammer. Mig is stiffer but easier and for most everything it is fine.
both and tig is better but still gotta grind... and talk about more time. it really takes time to tig. Clean clean clean. working the foot pedal in a position not so comfortable. At my age that stuff is almost impossible unless on a rotisserie . and there goes more time. When your my age you think about time because you have less years left.
@canuckguy worried I hear ya brother.... I have seen the mess those boards can start-up!!!! LOL
@canuckguy worried This is true.... I have the Everlast MTS 275 Lightning that does Mig, Tig, & Stick.... I also bought the Plasma cutter they offer.... I am doing a 71' C-10 right now and an 84" model.... I'll tell you somebody to check out that blows my mind but is super good and honest about everything he does..... and that is "Fitzee's Fabrication" ua-cam.com/video/nQtKGLMoFdA/v-deo.html
@@Mikefngarage I hear ya brother.... I'm only 35 about to be 36.... I appreciate you for you knowledge and explainations.... another good one is "Fitzee's Fabrication".... If you have never checked him out.... He has a super unique way of doing body work.... ua-cam.com/video/nQtKGLMoFdA/v-deo.html
I used to know everything......I just forgot what I knew! 🤫........👍👍👍😎😎😎
I learn something to da y, thx
My expirience the closer you finish on the metal the less you have to finish on the other end. Butt splice in the visible areas, lap in others where it doesn't need to be perfect.
I found butt welding nearly impossible on my current project as the metal has been sanded down over the years. Not matter what I tried I was burning through 10% of the time and attempts to correct the burn through just made things worse. Been Lap welding out of necessity and it is working very well.
yea it will be fine. just butt the parts that matter
My opinion is do whatever works best for you. Lap welding is a flat-out better weld with less warpage. Lap welding is harder to really back seal, vs butt welding. If you are making no attempt to back seal the weld either method will fail at the same rate. Tig welding would be far better (due to the nature of being a more rust resistant welding method) vs Mig. Compression spot welds are not prone to rusting, and that's why the manufactures use that method for lapped joints.
That they make themselves go the machete potatoes is wind,
Mike, don't dwell on those fooos.
you bet I dont. I just want to keep everyone with an open mind.
I am welding new floor and I am lap welding it all together and some but welds. Lap welds are easier IMHO and stronger 💪
Great point!
You can’t seam seal it from the inside . Anyways it took 60 years to rust ( not welded ) so it should last over 20 years if lap welded ( without even weld through primer )
oh yea for sure probably longer if its kept inside. more like 50 or more. just depends on how its respected.
Good vid !!!
👍🏴
So even you say butt welds are the very best and longest lasting option. If you want to save money, time and can be happy with a lesser product, go ahead and do lap joints. Some people want and are willing to pay for the very best while others just don’t care. I know which car I would rather own.
some butt welds are better some laps are better. Just depends on the repair, time line, strength. Both last Exactly the same. There is no difference there. Just depends on your ability skill level budget and time line.
Yup; but the reason you're doing rust repair is because the factory lap-welded...
not really. many of those places were not bad. rust has no idea what that is.
Too much talking