The progressive primitives, Mike Hisaw quotes the Greek when it suits him but he doesn't quote the Greek when it proves him wrong about water baptism. Naughty. Nowhere does the Biblical Greek say water baptism saves,washes sins away, remits sins, puts people into the body of Christ, regenerates or justifies. In Matt 28: 19. Jesus said FIRST make disciples,(get them saved, born again, justified). Then baptise them in water. This is how Acts 2: 38 reads in the Biblical Greek, and this is how the people would have heard and understood Peter "Repent for the remission of sins, then when you are saved , you can be baptized in water, and you can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.".
@TheProgressivePrimitivist because all translations of the Bible, are just that, they are man's translations who have misled Biblically ignorant people. We HAVE to go by what the Biblical Hebrew and Greek say, NOT what the translators have said.
Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again, not baptized and Jesus hadn't died or resurrected yet! Jesus clarified what being born of water is in John 3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh. No one is born again in a ceremony performed by humans that sin. One is born again by the Spirit.
And what is baptism? A death (Romans 6:3), a burial (Colossians 2:12), and a resurrection (1 Peter 3:21). You gonna just ignore all that? THAT is a rebirth!
Nonsense! Jesus told his disciples to go into the whole world and BAPTIZE those who believed "in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost". which belief of faith included obeying and doing all the things He commanded his apostles to "teach them" to do.; You people nit pick your way into perdition. What pertinacious folly.. "Always studying and never coming to the knowledge of the truth" -Letter of St.Jude. You need to read what the early Fathers of the Church (first four centuries of Christianity) unanimously taught. It is not what your "pastors" teach.
True. It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word. If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism. John 7:37-39 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Mike, thank you for your studious work and for presenting the historic Christian teaching on baptism like a gentleman. A side note on Reformed Baptists, for being such a creedal tradition it’s funny considering the earliest ecumenical creed (the Nicene Creed) quotes Ephesians 4:5 and Acts 2:38 near its end: “I confess one baptism for the remission of sins”! This was a very helpful debate and I appreciated both of your demeanors but thank you again Mike for doing a wonderful job. Love your channel btw, may God bless your work for the sake of the gospel.
Well, let’s be honest. That clause in the Nicene Creed was put there to justify infant baptism, not the credobaptism of the Campbellites. Neither you nor the baptists are baby baptizers. So that’s a bit of an unfair critique.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
@@toddstevens9667 the Nicene creed is dated at 325 a.d. Although the mode of baptism was changing, it's significance had not yet been lost. In fact, the oldest 2 denominations have never lost the significance of baptism. The problem with that teaching is that faith and repentance are required for salvation, which infants cannot accomplish.
@@Concatenate James 2 speaks of vindication. We are called to vindicate our faith. Abraham already believed and trusted God. By being willing to kill his son, he was vindicating his faith. Proving that his trust in God was true. Would you say vindicating your faith is a work for salvation or because of salvation?
In Romans 6:3-4 Paul wrote, “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” At what point does Paul indicate that one dies to sin and receives new life? When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
@@donhaddix3770 The first thing one should observe is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was never given as a command to be administered by man, nor was it to be obeyed by man. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise to be received by certain men chosen for a certain purpose. When Jesus spoke on the subject between His resurrection and His ascension, He appeared to the chosen apostles, speaking to them things concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 1:1-3). Among the things spoken to them were the following words: “ … wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” {He said,} “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:4-5 NAS).
@@kac0404 I get that those who refuse to acknowledge Baptism being necessary, just for some reason, pick and choose what to believe that baptism is a work are so far lost that if Jesus was standing in front of them, they would argue with him not being necessary! But, it’s their choice!
You hit the nail on the head in the concluding statement when you said if you read a verse that’s clear in its command and can’t accept it because of your theology, it’s probably wrong.
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist I have witnessed and read many Church of Christ debates over the years. Your attitude, demeanor, and respect for your opponent are exemplary. Peace to you.
If you read a verse that's crystal clear, but it contradicts your theology, your understanding of the verse is automatically wrong. Single verses do not trump clear theology.
I've watched 30 minutes so far. Jeremiah devastates his opponent in his opening. And he's right about definitions. Mark defined NOTHING. Jeremiah defined all of his terms. Jeremiah presents a well-rounded understanding of what happens in salvation. Mark simply harps on water baptism and its importance.
In Ephesians 4 Paul makes it clear that in our age there is but one baptism. Unless the Holy Spirit baptism that he received in Acts 9 is just chopped liver there is no longer need to be dunked in water. Sorry folks, we truly are saved by grace, not by works so that no one can boost
In Galatians 3:26-27 Paul wrote, “for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” At what point does Paul indicate that one is “in Christ” and “put[s] on Christ?” When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
does not after water, explain the thief on the cross and Acts 10:47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.
@donhaddix3770 The request made by "the thief on the cross" and Jesus answer came before the death of Jesus and before Jesus' New Testament took effect. Hence, the thief was not required to be baptized in the name of the Lord to be saved. How could one be "buried with Him (Jesus, hh ) by baptism into death" before Jesus died? (Romans 6:4). Baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins would be preached beginning on Pentecost after the death and resurrection of Jesus (Acts 2:38).
@donhaddix3770 The fact of the matter is that Cornelius was to come to have the salvation in the Christ as a consequence of the words which Peter would speak to him (Acts 11:14). At the time the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius these words had not been spoken. Later, Peter commanded Cornelius and his household “to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 10:48 NAS). This baptism, in the name of Christ, was for remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and that he might be added to the Lord’s church (Acts 2:47). It is crystal clear that the baptism of the Holy Spirit on Cornelius, in Acts 10, had nothing to do with salvation from alien sins!
@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM IS IN WATER 1 Peter 3:20-21 (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Mark 1:9-10 (9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. (10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: Acts 8:38-39 (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
@@donhaddix3770 hey Don. Those are good questions. I'm a part of the independent Christian Churches rather than the Churches of Christ. We also believe that baptism is the normative and ordinary way that God graces us with regeneration but we are often more willing to admit that God is free to make exceptions if He chooses to. Many of us think that Acts 10 with Cornelius and company is God making an exception because the apostles were still having trouble recognizing the inclusion of gentiles in the church and He needed to show them definitively that the gentiles had been grafted into the people of God. I do think the previous commenter gave an insufficient answer for the criminal on the cross because Jesus did indeed die before he did. I would make the argument from the book of Hebrews that Jesus brought his blood to the altar in heaven and either at that point or at Pentecost (maybe they're the same thing) The New covenant goes into effect.
That’s not what they are saying. Your camp uses a prayer to ask Jesus to cleanse. The Bible no where states to do this it states clearly baptism is the function for that. If baptism is a work so is the sinners prayer. Second of all no one held your view till the 1500’s or preached that baptism wasn’t salvific. NO ONE. Logic dismantles evangelical theology on its own. Secondly if you believe that people who view baptism as salvific are dmned that means by default. No one was saved for the first 1500 years of Christianity….. which with all due respect should sound ridiculous to anyone w a level head who critically thinks
@@unknown-zy6dp Well, according to the COC no one for 1500 years was saved anyway because the church died in the 4th century and didn't return until Alexander Campbell magically restored. So, according to your own theology, people were damned for 15000 years. Pot calling the kettle black. And the entire church for 2000 years has believed in salvation by faith without baptism. Baptism for salvation has always been the aberration and very few people in history have ever taught it. Physician, heal thyself. You do not understand church history or Christian theology. Peace. I will never accuse the COC of thinking critically. I've never met a single member who can.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
Jeremiah and clapping seals do not understand Biblical Theology. He slanders the church of Christ. The Bible never calls Baptism a work of merit. He superimposed a Reformation debate over the scripture. He argues that obedience to Christ somehow puts one against God’s will. He is a hypocritical false teacher and not a “good guy”!
I tried to reason with Jeremiah that, technically, mental effort/activity could also be considered ergon/work (says Merriam-Webster), so the one that believes is not exempt from his line of reasoning. Belief is commanded by our Lord and requires a decision of will. Ironically, if we take his argument to its fatal conclusion, then the person that actually "works" the least (if this is our litmus test) is the unbeliever. Go figure. 😃
@@scottvk4129 Scott, it is beyond reason why they think that doing what the Lord says is what Paul is teaching against. He is referring to people that were requiring people to accept Jewish rituals rather than to accept Christ and The new identity in Christ. I was studying Rom 10 Wednesday and Paul continues what he was talking about in Rom 3-4. You cannot be saved by ignoring and disobeying the Lord, Period. Jesus said, “why call me Lord, and do not the things I say.” Yes, we are saved by trusting in Jesus but that does not exclude responding to what he says. That is actually evil. The devil has done a real job on people,making them think they are being faithful to God by disobeying God. I think if you read Beasley-Murray, you will see how extreme Jeremiah has become, just to be consistent with Calvin. Jesus is the one we should follow. He likes to claim we are depending on our works. Nothing could be further from the truth.. It is always Christ. That is why baptism is so connected to Christ (Rom 6:1-6). It is a Christ event in which we enter into the mystery of Christ.(Gal 3:27). “Baptism and the Mystery of Christ,” Will be my sermon next week.
Faith comes by HEARING (Rom 10:17) Hearing is an action! Therefore FAITH comes by an action (a work) of a man. So, one must act to HEAR, then act to BELIEVE, then act to REPENT, act to CONFESS, act to be IMMERSED and act to CALL upon the name of the Lord. These are not Works of Righteousness earning salvation, they are responses of mankind to the Gospel, as, too, are any actions following the washing of regeneration. One other point, on definitions...at the point where one is justified...one is immediately sanctified and regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit by faith in the promise of forgiveness of sins. At one precious moment in time we are at once made perfect (sanctified, regenerated, made new, justified and forgiven) by the sacrifice of Christ. There was no church before Acts 2:41, therefore the outpouring of the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles (and upon Cornelius' household) prior to regeneration. This is true, also, of Saul on the road to Damascus. Therefore, God (the Holy Spirit) can appear to sinners prior to their regeneration. Paul's message, in Romans, is that men are not saved by works of the Law of Moses because Moses has been fulfilled in Christ. In Christ is our Salvation, but we must RECEIVE (action) the Gift in order to benefit from Him, learn from Him and grow in Him. (Rom 10:14-21) The acts of man leading to the Faith (hearing, belief, repentance, immersion), and his acts following baptism are not works, but responses to the Holy Spirit's callings...from without, prior to immersion, then from within at immersion. We begin our sanctified ministry, as did our Master begin His, at immersion. If immersion in water was not vital, then why does our Lord submit to it at the very beginning? John 1:1 - 4:25. Jesus is the Word, the Son of God made flesh. John prepares the Way, immersing. Jesus is immersed in water and John saw the Holy Spirit descend and remain on Him. Jesus is now called the Lamb of God. Jesus begins making disciples and showing signs at Cana (turns water into wine) and overturns tables in the Temple. (1:1 - 2:25) This is followed by Jesus teaching Nicodemus about being born of "water and Spirit" (3:1-21) This is followed by more immersion teaching (3:21-4:3) This is followed by the Living Water discourse (4:1-16). John spends the first four chapters, of his gospel, devoted mainly to the stories of Christ's relationship to water. Therefore, water is really important, mainly because Christ transforms a simple, common element, water into something better. THAT'S what happens to us at baptism...we are transformed from common water into His wine.
Ooh boy, you're really going to ruffle feathers if you say any human activity is involved in faith. You can speak salvation prayers and confess publicly but it's crossing a line to allow yourself to be baptized, that's "works based salvation" all of a sudden!
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word. If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism. John 7:37-39 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou It is sad. I agree. "The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever." Ps 119:116. This also applies, in my mind, to the New Covenant, the Kingdom Covenant. One cannot be, by birth, born into the New Covenant, as Jesus explains to Nicodemus. It's a New Covenant requiring a new birth..."of water and Spirit." Just as our example, Jesus, entered His ministry at His baptism, so too, we enter our new life, at water baptism. (Rom 6:4 reads, "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." It is at our immersion in water where we receive both forgiveness and the Spirit (Acts 2:38) And, as Peter, years after his first sermon in Acts, so clearly said, "Baptism...now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." There is not one example, under the New Covenant, where salvation precedes repentance and baptism. Not one. Peace. "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree." (1 John 5:7-8)
Water baptism was...into the death of Christ, when His blood was shed! Paul, nor any of the other Apostles were sent to perform all the baptizing! Carnal men were bragging over..."WHO"...had baptized them!
No no, you have to rip apart the context to defend a doctrine built by men. So 1 Corinthians 1 is firmly kicking baptism out, doesn't matter what Jesus said, what Romans 6 says, what Colossians 2:12 says, what Galatians 3:27 says, 1 Peter 3:21 says, all the scriptures that talk obedience says, we'll have none of that!
You obviously do not understand Greek or my Spanish Bible of Acts 2: 38! No where does the Bible call baptism a ceremony.... You do greatly...err...! 1st. Thess. Chapter 1 says....the WORK of FAITH.... Get it?
It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word. If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism. John 7:37-39 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) We are commanded to “rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15).” However, hardly anyone does so. Thankfully, those that do “rightly divide the word of truth” are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when they believe the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).
Likewise! We got rid of the “annoying red bubbly background” in our edit🤣jk I got several comments about how good the production was. I may message you for some tech recommendations. - Jake
@@invokethought3883 well at the end of the day I think Mike is by far the best representative that I've met of CoC theology, and he taught me a number of things and challenged me on a number of things. Regardless of how ppl perceive the debate, we all will one day stand before our Creator. SDG Rom 11:36
@@invokethought3883why is it important to control the proposition?It’s the Truth that matters. Thank You Mike for the Truth about Baptism being necessary for Salvation. Without it, you WILL die outside of Christ!
Acts 2: 38 in my Spanish Bible reads..."para remision de sus pecados", which can only translate as, "inorder to have remission" of your sins! The Greek word "eis" means the exact same thing! (1st. Thess. chapter 1) says, "the WORK OF FAITH"! I hope this helps.... Romans 16: 16
In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
I have been listening to, watching, or attending these debates between various Baptist sects and various Campbellite sects for many, many, many decades (yes, I’m very old). A couple things really strike me about these debates: 1) the Campbellites are very good at these debates. Their pastors and apologists are specifically trained in how to debate generally, and how to debate baptists in particular. And they are very good at these formal debates against Baptist pastors who think they can come into these settings, quote a couple verses, accuse the Campbellites of being works-salvationists, and basically treat the entire thing like a 3-point sermon in their own church. I’ve never seen a baptist do very well in these formal debates. 2) I’ve noticed that the Campbellites treat this as entertainment. They’ve watched or attended so many of these things that they can almost quote both sides verbatim before it even starts. I’ve been to three of these formal debates … all of them probably before most of your parents (and probably even your grandparents) were born. I notice that in each case, the baptists tend to sit on the opposite side of the room from the Campbellites, with almost no mixing of the two groups. But what is most noticeable is the fact that you rarely see one of the Campbellites in the audience bring an actual Bible to the debate. On the other hand, the baptist side of the audience is full of Bibles, and every time someone quotes a verse you can hear the sound of all the baptist Bibles rustling as they turn to the passage, while there is utter silence on the Campbellite side. I always thought that was funny. 3) I think it’s interesting to note that the general baptist approach to baptism was developed centuries ago in their debates with the RCC, the Lutherans, and the Anglicans, who quoted the exact same verses as the Campbellites, but in order to prove infant baptism. Most baptist reasoning on this topic developed in order to distinguish themselves from the baby baptizers. Their idea that baptism is only a symbol of a spiritual reality was developed primarily to argue against the idea that infant baptism forgives sin (mainly original sin inherited from Adam). I recently watched a Jordan B. Cooper video where he quoted Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Colossians 2:11-12, and 1 Peter 3:20-21 to justify infant baptism. Most baptist arguments against these verses were originally designed to be used against the RCC, the Lutherans, and the Anglicans. Of course, it wasn’t until the 1820s-1840s when the Stone-Campbell Restoration movement really started picking up steam that the baptists had to start pivoting on this topic to dealing with fellow credobaptists. I’ve always found it interesting that Alexander Campbell started off as a baby-baptizing Presbyterian, moved to various baptist associations, and eventually started his own movement. I know the Campbellites claim that their movement goes all the way back to the Apostolic era, but we all know that it really just goes back to the early 1800s. And 4) I never cease to be amazed at the Christian communities’ desire to argue, fuss, and fight over fairly meaningless points of doctrine. Two groups, both of which insist on immersing new believers, will argue until they are blue in the face over baptism. Baptists insist on arguing over this mythical new convert who either can’t or won’t get baptized. And the Campbellites insist that even if a new convert is dunked in Jesus’ name, it doesn’t really count unless they’re the ones doing the dunking. Practically, there really isn’t a hair’s breath difference between the two sides, but they’ve been arguing over the minutiae of baptism for around 200 years. That’s Christianity for ya.
Debates generally go in favor of the one who teaches the truth. You reckon? Given that both speakers know their subject and are both likewise mentally endowed.
@@montyeason3973Not at all. The Bible doesn’t really answer the question, so there is no ‘truth’ to win the debate. It’s just how you put together verses that don’t even really have anything to do with the topic.
@@toddstevens9667 That's pretty absurd.m Man has a sin problem. I hope you would agree with that. BUt God in his goodness desires to forgive us and make us part of his eternal family. It's normal for people that hear about his proposition to us , the death, burial, and resurrection of his son) to want to know what to do(how to take advantage of the mercy he extends) at least 3 places in Acts men asked what must I do to be saved? And the same answer is always given, as in many other places where the subject is talked about but the specific question is not asked but assumed the reader(CHristians) have an understanding of it . GOd's word is truth. Anything that contradicts the truth of his word is a lie whether said in ignorance or maliciously. I don't claim to know everything about the Bible, but the way a person receives salvation from thier sins and can be at peace with God is not some wierd mystery. That's not to say that well meaning people can't see things differently especially if what they have been taught and have always believed is wrong. If your mom and dad told you 2+2 = 5 all your life and someone comes along and says, I'm sorry to tell you that 2+2 = 4 chances are you would think them strange, crazy, a liar, or being factious for upsetting your appplecart. Iseriously doubt you would thank me for pointing out the truth to you. People are funny that way.
@@montyeason3973I didn’t say it was a mystery. I know exactly how to be saved. I’ve been saved since December 7, 1941. But that doesn’t mean that this question is answered in the NT. There are verses on both sides of this debate. But nowhere does the NT actually address this question specifically. Nowhere do you see that exact question and a definitive answer in an Epistle.
I am finally watching the entire video and I want to give extreme kudos to Mark on one thing. He mentions that the Holy Spirit HIMSELF regenerates us. This point is rarely mentioned by the Churches of Christ in any discussion of any kind, and never in a discussion of water baptism. Many thanks to Mark for acknowledging the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation. I was thrilled to hear it.
This is a major teaching in churches of Christ and is normally called baptism of the Holy Spirit. I know many in this forum do not understand this, but scripture is clear, creeds come and go. (1 Cor 6:11; Acts 2:38, 5:32).
@@darrellclark2248 I'm not sure how to put this. If you are referring to regeneration, where the Holy Spirit comes to indwell and give our dead spirit life, that has never been called the baptism of the Holy Spirit by any group in history. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, even in the COC, believes it is the coming in power of the Holy Spirit on a person. Churches of Christ are strict cessationists. They believe the Baptism of the Holy Spirit only happened to the apostles and those they laid hands on. COC openly and adamantly denies that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available today. I think you got your terms confused. Regeneration and Holy Spirit baptism are not the same thing, not even in the COC. As far as it being a major teaching in the COC, it rarely gets mentioned, never gets explained, and the COC are STRICT secularists. By secularists, I mean they don't believe in ANY supernatural work of God in the world today. They have always been ultimate humanists, where everything is up to man, and God does nothing. They do pay lip service to the indwelling, but it is almost an embarrassment to them to say that much. It's not a major teaching by any stretch. Peace
@@HeLivesForever25 I’m sorry, regeneration by the Spirit Is very common. You deal with passé teaching and usually products from very sectarian schools of Preaching. The teaching that baptism in the Spirit is regeneration is very common in churches of Christ and in many Protestant groups. Baptism in the Spirit is about regeneration, rather than giving sign gifts. I’m not confused, I graduated and attended 3 of their colleges and seminaries. I have a clear picture.
I'm sorry, but your theological terms are wrong. No group in history has EVER referred to regeneration as the baptism in the Spirit. No one has. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is exclusively referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If you were taught differently in seminary and bible college, all of your teachers were extremely ignorant of the term and its use in church history. I personally think you're just confusing your terms. I can promise you this much: every Reformed, Baptist, Roman Catholic, Pentecostal, and Charismatic will UTTERLY disagree with you.
@@darrellclark2248 I wanted to clarify something. REGENERATION by the Spirit is a part of COC theology. Absolutely. You won't hear a sermon on it once in 20 years, but yes, it is part of COC doctrine. HOWEVER, it has never been called BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit by any group in history, including the COC. So, I am not disputing that COC believes in regeneration by the Spirit. I am disputing the claim that they call it BAPTISM in the Spirit. No one on earth has ever called regeneration that.
Jeremiah’s whole argument falls apart when we realize one *very simple* fact: We can’t baptize ourselves. The scripture always says *be baptized.* That doesn’t at all sound like a work to me because - when we are being baptized - we’re simply allowing God to work in us.
@@TheApologeticDogand yet Jesus says you must believe and be baptized to be saved Mark 16:16. You must not have the faith he spoken about. You don’t even believe his own words. So your faith must be dead faith
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God. .
Mike is the one who focused on defining terms by his continual references to BDAG. Jeremiah seemed to simply pull his definitions out of thin air from his systematic. I just find that ironic since Jeremiah continually criticized Mike throughout the debate for not defining terms, even though, in my view, Mike took great pains to do so. Just my two cents.
Water Baptism Versus Spirit Baptism Water baptism is baptism by men with water and was done under the gospel of the kingdom. Spirit baptism is baptism by the Holy Spirit, and is only for the gospel of the grace of God. Water Baptism John's Baptism - Confession of Sins In the New Testament, water baptism is the first type of baptism mentioned. We see John the Baptist preaching the baptism for the “remission of sins,” in Mark 1:4. We see John the Baptist baptizing his fellow Jews with water while they were “confessing their sins” (Matthew 3:6, Mark 1:5). We clearly see that John’s water baptism was accompanied by the confession of sins. Water Baptism Pentecost Baptism - Remission of Sins On Pentecost we see where water baptism is also conducted, and this water baptism is for the “remission of sins.” This water baptism covered repentance, and being baptized the name of Jesus Christ. These that were water baptized would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, as seen in Acts 2:38. In Acts 3:19 we see the first recorded sermon by Peter since his sermon on Pentecost. In this sermon we see that Peter says to repent and be converted (turn from sin). In this verse we also see that their sins would not be blotted until the times of refreshing comes from the presence of the Lord. What this means is that their sins would not be blotted out until Jesus Christ returns to earth and establishes His new covenant during the Millennial Kingdom (Hebrews 10:16-18). Hebrews 10:16-18 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. As we see in Hebrews 10:18 that there was not to be any more animal sacrifices after the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. However, these sacrifices were not stopped until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Roman armies in A.D. 70. Spirit Baptism Baptism Into The Body of Christ In the New Testament the second type of baptism mentioned is baptism by the Holy Spirit. This baptism is not done by men, but done by the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism of the gospel of the grace of God. Those saved under the gospel of the grace of God are not water baptized, for we have no sins to be “remitted.” Our sins were forgiven on the cross 2000 years ago. Paul tells us in Romans 4:15 and Romans 5:13 that sins are not imputed where there is no law. In the verses below we will see that the baptism that Paul refers to is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I Corinthians 1:17 - “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” In the verse above we see that Paul was not sent to water baptize, but to preach the gospel of the grace of God. Paul’s main focus is on the cross. Ephesians 4:5 - “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” In the verse above, Paul tells us that there is one baptism, and the baptism that Paul refers to is the baptism by the Holy Spirit of “body of Christ” believers of the gospel of the grace of God. In Galatians 3:27, Paul tells us that those that have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3:27 - “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” In Romans 6:3-5 we see where Paul identifies us with Christ’s death, burial and resurrection when we are spiritually baptized into the “body of Christ.” God’s Holy Spirit immediately baptizes us into the body of Christ after we believe the gospel of the grace of God. Romans 6:3-5 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. Colossians 2:12 - “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.” In the above verse, we see that Paul says that we are baptized (buried with Christ in baptism) by the Holy Spirit by our faith in the resurrection of Christ from the dead. I Corinthians 12:13 - “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. In the above verse Paul tells us that we are baptized into one body. This “one body” that Paul speaks of is the “body of Christ.” In Ephesians 1:13-14 we see that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe the gospel of the grace of God. Ephesians 1:13-14 - “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” Ephesians 2:8-9 - “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Water Baptism Summary We see that the baptism of John the Baptist was water baptism accompanied by confession of sins. We see that the water baptism at Pentecost was for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) that would not be blotted out (Acts 3:19) until Jesus Christ returns to earth (Hebrews 10:16-18). Water baptism at Pentecost was conducted AFTER BELIEF that they had crucified the Son of God, which was their messiah, redeemer and king. Water baptism did not forgive sins; the shed blood of Jesus Christ puts their sins in remission until they are blotted out. Water baptism was the baptism of the gospel of the kingdom.
If the police came to your house and said open up in the name of the law, it ain’t just talking about policeman it means everybody. Whole police force the county the state! Matt 28 baptized name of the father son and Holy Ghost. Means all authority John 17:10
Did not God through Moses lead the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage.. Oh...so really when God split the red Sea, they could tell God, because we met your conditions, we help with our justification????
The teaching that baptism into Christ is not essential to salvation is only as old as the 16th century. Obscure heretical groups such as the Cainite Gnostics, mentioned by Tertullian in his treatise, "On Baptism," and other offshoot groups are the only exceptions. The most complete and detailed biblical reference is probably that of the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8:34-39, where water baptism into Christ was included in Philip's preaching of Jesus. It is clear from the description that Philip made baptism mandatory in his teaching, or how else could this eunuch have ever before heard of this practice? This was a new experience for him based on the text, and his response was that of rejoicing following his compliance.
Odd historical claim. None of the early church fathers, none of the apostles, and precious few people even today teach baptism is essential. Requiring water baptism for salvation is the historical aberration. Salvation by faith alone is the historical standard for 2000 years.
Incorrect. I would guess that you believe that the earth is flat also? Your number one enemy in this response? Google. Anyone can easily prove your response wrong, and there is nothing that you can do to change it.
@cigarlovers999 You don't get it, huh? Google? Your comments with that great resource can be easily disproven by anyone. That's your enemy. The history of Christian baptism from the beginning until now is well documented. You are easily disproven.
Unfortunately, some believe that all mentions of works in the NT mean any physical activity of man instead of understanding the context of Romans 4 and Ephesians 2 is actually referring to works of law, and this is super important, works of the Law of Moses AND works of Gentile law. It's meant to stand in contrast to the works of the Law of the Spirit in Christ.
@@Concatenate The law of the Spirit of Christ refers to the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in the person. The law of Christ, meaning a set of rules in the New Testament, is a COC myth. That law doesn't exist. The only LAW in the entire bible is the law of Moses.
The "Church ", isn't the building where people congregate to worship who or what they like, it is the New Creation of God, made up of believers in the sacrificial death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, from all over the world, no matter their background. They're daily infilled with and led by the Holy Spirit, kept in His fold until He returns to redeem His purchased possession, as promised, and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father. The Holy Spirit has left these buildings, thus they can do as they please. They didn't say they wanted to be saved or seek eternal life with Christ Jesus in God, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, so, let them be. Nebuchadnezzar and the Romans could only enter the temple to destroy it only after the presence and glory of GOD left Ezekiel chapters 8-11; Matthew 24:1. The restraining power had left! This power instantly killed even the high priest who came with the tiniest of sin, how much more the heathen or unbelievers. The end justifies the means. They're doing what feels best for them, knowing that this world is programmed to fail- everything is geared toward vanity. Esau had his bowl of porridge, he lived to regret it. Most of these preachers already got fat from the offerings and tithes of gullible, unsuspecting congregants, and they're blinded by the five senses, which only ends in death and destruction. Life only comes in abiding in Christ Jesus till the end. John 8:21; Matthew 24:13. They're feeling good, so let them enjoy their fleeting time. They didn’t know the Way, the Truth and the Life, but they're putting together their own truth, to sell to those who would buy it. The five foolish virgins are already lining up to "buy" oil for their dead lamp, because they didn't bring enough. Both they and the sellers will be outside of the shut gate...but, there's still time this day, for any of them who would turn back to the fold. If they can bear to leave their temporal comfort zones, and seek for the eternal. 1 John 2:19; Hebrews chapters 6 and 10. No excuses on that day!
The proposition had been erroneously framed. Whether immersion or pouring on, the water to be used in the Christian baptism inhers with the Holy Spirit(Mt. 3:11; Mk 1:8; Lk3:16; Jn 1:33) and the Word(Ep 5:26) as well as called on in the name of the Holy Trinity(Mt 28: 19). Christian baptism or spiritual birth should rephrase the statement.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God....
These gentleman can't quite grasp it. We are not saying that we can get any credit for our justification in our being immersed. We are saying that God justifies us according to his grace by faith, in the occasion of baptism into union with his son Jesus. It's what God is doing when we are led by faith in adherence to his instructions. If God provided justification and directed you to his justification, and you go where God directs you to recieve it, how can you say that by you going, you earned or merited it? You can't. What you guys are interpreting out of this is that, if you had to go to wherr God told you to go to recieve what only God could provide, then that would imply that one could revieve credit for their being justified.. false . That's like saying: theose who walked around the walls of Jericho are ro credit because they did what God told them to do..we k ow that's not true. God caused them to fall, and it was after they met God's conditions Just as God saves us after we meet hid conditions This happens according to God's grace and own doing. What takes place in baptism is an operation of God, not us doing a thing to add to what God is doing..
The antagonist Jeremiah, did not have a grasp of Biblical or Historical Theology. His exegesis was very questionable. He fumbled all over BDAG and butchered Acts 2:38 in unrecognizable ways. No recognizable translation would translate it the way he did. He did not understand Justification by Faith or Baptism. He was focused on the use of ceremony. Even though salvation is by faith, but God used baptism as a medium of his grace. Churches of Christ are not Sacramental Baptist but Credo-Baptist. We believe in believers baptism. Paul or Luke never called baptism a work of merit. The antagonist constantly tried to twist this! He tried to force Romans 3:1-31, as well as Rom 4 into a 16 century faith vs. works contrast and does not actually deal with Paul's audience and his issues he had with them. This was his fundamental problem.
The Churches of Christ do not believe in "believers baptism". The phrase was around hundreds of years before the COC was invented by Alexander Campbell. Believers baptism refers to someone who is already a Christian being baptized to express one's faith, not receive God's grace.
@@HeLivesForever25 Once again, you show your ignorance of basic words. Believer’s baptism is contrasted to paedobaptist -baby baptizer. Credo-baptizers-People that require biblical faith to be baptized. Once again, you make up definitions, because you lack basic theological training/ or just understanding of what words mean.
@@HeLivesForever25really? So Alexander Campbell started his work in 33:AD? Roman 16:16. Alexander Campbell was a Baptist/ Calvin. He only restored the church back to what the church was in 33Ad. And you are a very mean spirited person for calling the church that Christ built a campellite
. Baptism was instituted because the children of Israel, despite the fact that they went through the Red sea, and then threatened God that they would return to Egypt, and made good their threats in Numbers 14:4 and Jeremiah 42:1, 43:4,7, and Johanan was in charge. So, God brought back Elijah - who was supposed to bring them back to God - but dropped the ball and now had to complete it through John the Baptist. He came baptizing to bring Israel back from Egypt- so to speak (Jesus as the Son, had to be taken back to Egypt and was brought back to the promised land). Thus by deciding to get baptized, they're showing to God that they repented of their decision, and now accept the One they sent to be their Messiah and King, as the Son of Man (David), and the Son of God, who will then fulfill God's will to Israel Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9(written only to the Jews). Acts 10, and 19:6; 11: 6, God sent His Holy Spirit directly to Cornelius and his family, despite the fact that they hadn't been baptized, but, He didn't tell Peter to go baptize them, (as He wasn't instructed to go replace the 12th desciple, which he did through divination). Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:26-38, because they're considered to be part of Israel, (and God was rewarding the good deed of Ebed-Meleck in keeping Jeremiah alive- Jeremiah 38:6-13; 39:15-18; Isaiah 56:3, just like He rewarded Phinehas Numbers 25). Jesus came to baptize with the Holy Spirit. The fire baptism would be for those who do not receive His free gift of salvation, through the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom- for Israel, and the gospel of grace- for both Jews and Gentiles, who believe in God, and are saved by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. (By going back to Egypt, Israel nullified the whole purpose of passover, and crossing the Red sea and Jordan, thus they were given the law whereby every sin must be personally atoned for through the institution of the Priesthood, who brought the blood of the sacrificial animals before God. This became moot, as they did as they pleased, bringing sick polluted sacrifices. God stopped honoring them until Jesus came, went back to Egypt, came out, and fulfilled God's word, " out of Egypt have I called my Son." So, whosoever believes in Him is baptized into Him, by tge Holy Spirit, and took on the adoption of sons John 1:12-14, ushering in "the acceptable year of the Lord " or the preparation of the body of Christ- the Church, made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 3; Ephesians chapters 1-4. So, all believers need to do is simply abide in Him by grace, through faith in His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection from the dead, until the redemption of His purchased possession!
Alexander Campbell had great respect for the Baptist Church. He preached in the First Baptist Church in 1857. This was in Washington City. The president of the US was there to hear him preach.
@@JamesMoss-g5o No man made "church" or doctrine should be respected (to hold something in high esteem). If Campbell "respected" the Baptists he was wrong. This doesn't mean anyone should behave poorly towards anyone, but the scriptures are pretty clear about adhering to truth.
@@Concatenate Of course AC respected the Baptist Church and the Methodist Church. He preached in the Methodist Church after his debate with Purcell. 2000 people were there to hear him speak. He thought there were Christians in all the sects.
Also: Jeremiah, anyone can refer to themselves in the 3rd Person to avoid saying “I”. Saying “this retched man” instead of “I” proves nothing. In the Pharisee/Tax Payer Parable the Pharisee could have said “This man” or “This Pharisee” has done this or that instead of “I”…but it still means the same thing. So, just because you referred to yourself in the 3rd person doesn’t mean you didn’t say “I”. It all means the same thing: just sounds different.
Jeremiah is a powerhouse speaker, flooding the discussion with definition, context, Jewish thinking, and excellent arguments. In my view, he tore Mark's arguments to shreds. The winner is in the eye of the beholder.
@@TheApologeticDog the Bible never says that baptism is an “act of faith.” I would say that the Bible is clear that in submitting to being baptized God is doing a renewing work in me based on my faith/trust in Christ. And that work He is doing is justifying me according to the atonement that Christ offered. I did nothing to deserve what Christ did, so God is graciously giving it to me because of my expressed faith and my willingness to trust in Jesus.
If I’m in the crowd that day that Peter was preaching to and I was confused, I would have asked Peter, “please excuse me, but is it repentance or baptism that is for the remission of my sins?” Yet, it’s not recorded that one individual appeared confused about the command. Peter didn’t seem too concerned about making a distinction either. He could have chosen to word it differently. He could have said “repent for the remission of your sins and also be baptized as a sign of your faith.” Maybe I’m just too simple, I just read it at face value. And for the millions of people throughout the centuries who have read this passage without the benefit of knowing the Greek language or having a book for interpreting Greek language, it seems they would read it just as it’s written.
It's like, wait a minute, so ALL of us need to repent... AND (conjoining conjunction?)... EACH of us is to allow ourselves to be baptized... so that MUST mean baptism has nothing to do with remission of sins. Got it! Lol, how do people allow themselves to get it that twisted?
@@Concatenate Context solves a lot of this. Sadly, context is considered heresy in the COC. Ripping one phrase out of a verse and standing your ground is guaranteed heresy, but that's the favorite COC play. I know how you got yourselves that twisted, and I pity you for it.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God..
That was why Jesus Christ sent His Holy Spirit, to enable Believers in Him live in this "sinful life ". Jesus Christ already dealt with sin by His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection from the dead. Only those who reject this worry about "sin", and end up living under the scrutiny of the law. That's not why He shed His blood. Receive His work of salvation of your soul, and ask for daily infilling and leading of His Holy Spirit, so you can live life and that more abundantly until He returns as promised, to redeem His purchased possession. John 14:26; Romans 8:9,14; Acts 1:5,8; Luke 11:13. No Holy Spirit, no Christ, no God!
Wow, this was a good one. However, much was left on the table in terms of the inconsistencies that Jeremiah with circular reasoning left unanswered or unhandled, resulting in condescension and proof texting his calvinist theology. Congrats to Mike for his humility in putting up with the entrapment questions.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
He believes God is going to save people that tell God that they will not follow him in his will. Jesus said if you don't put him first, you cannot be my disciple. He twist Mikes words often in a very dishonest way. Everything he says about baptism can be said about repentance and confession. He talks about context but I can't see where he actually uses context to interpret the text. Much of the confusion in Paul and James is to understand that James uses justification in the sense of vindication (Matt 12:37). The word is determined by context. James was not saying you are justified (in Paul's sense) by visiting the elderly and taking care of the fatherless. it would not make any sense.
Israel was baptized unto Moses, by crossing the Red sea 1 Corinthians 10:1-2. Believers are baptized into Christ, by the Holy Spirit, through the faith of the Believer in Christ. Galatians 3:24-29; Romans 6:2-10; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, all are talking about baptism by faith, not water. Whosoever puts their faith and trust in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, is already circumcised and baptized into Him by the very circumcision and baptism of Jesus Christ. He already perfected everything that pertains to life and godliness for all Believers until He returns as promised to redeem His purchased possession and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father, in heavenly places! Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians chapters 1-5; Colossians chapters 1-4 etc.
It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word. If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism. John 7:37-39 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) We are commanded to “rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15).” However, hardly anyone does so. Thankfully, those that do “rightly divide the word of truth” are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when they believe the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou . Baptism was instituted because the children of Israel, despite the fact that they went through the Red sea, and then threatened God that they would return to Egypt, and made good their threats in Numbers 14:4 and Jeremiah 42:1, 43:4,7, and Johanan was in charge. So, God brought back Elijah - who was supposed to bring them back to God - but dropped the ball and now had to complete it through John the Baptist. He came baptizing to bring Israel back from Egypt- so to speak (Jesus as the Son, had to be taken back to Egypt and was brought back to the promised land). Thus by deciding to get baptized, they're showing to God that they repented of their decision, and now accept the One they sent to be their Messiah and King, as the Son of Man (David), and the Son of God, who will then fulfill God's will to Israel Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9(written only to the Jews). Acts 10, and 19:6; 11: 6, God sent His Holy Spirit directly to Cornelius and his family, despite the fact that they hadn't been baptized, but, He didn't tell Peter to go baptize them, (as He wasn't instructed to go replace the 12th desciple, which he did through divination). Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:26-38, because they're considered to be part of Israel, (and God was rewarding the good deed of Ebed-Meleck in keeping Jeremiah alive- Jeremiah 38:6-13; 39:15-18; Isaiah 56:3, just like He rewarded Phinehas Numbers 25). Jesus came to baptize with the Holy Spirit. The fire baptism would be for those who do not receive His free gift of salvation, through the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom- for Israel, and the gospel of grace- for both Jews and Gentiles, who believe in God, and are saved by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. (By going back to Egypt, Israel nullified the whole purpose of passover, and crossing the Red sea and Jordan, thus they were given the law whereby every sin must be personally atoned for through the institution of the Priesthood, who brought the blood of the sacrificial animals before God. This became moot, as they did as they pleased, bringing sick polluted sacrifices. God stopped honoring them until Jesus came, went back to Egypt, came out, and fulfilled God's word, " out of Egypt have I called my Son." So, whosoever believes in Him is baptized into Him, by tge Holy Spirit, and took on the adoption of sons John 1:12-14, ushering in "the acceptable year of the Lord " or the preparation of the body of Christ- the Church, made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 3; Ephesians chapters 1-4. So, all believers need to do is simply abide in Him by grace, through faith in His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection from the dead, until the redemption of His purchased possession!
Mike I really wish you would listen to what James Snapp has to say about Mark 16versus 9-20. I believe he makes a VERY STRONG case for it being in the original manuscripts. Please listen to his reasoning and I sincerely believe you will see. He has challenged James White and others to debate and they will not respond.
Have You Received The Love Of The Truth? In II Thessalonians 2:10 our Apostle Paul tells us that those who perish when Jesus Christ comes back to earth will perish because they “received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” In II Thessalonians 1:7-8 Paul tells us that “the Lord Jesus Christ shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The question for each of us is - have we received the love of the truth? If we have received the love of the truth, then we will obey (meaning believe) the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If we have the love of the truth, then we will know God. The love of the truth is the love of the gospel recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. Our gospel (good news) is that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. This is truly good news because this means that when God looks upon us he does not see our sins. All of our sins have been forgiven - past, present and future. God has done everything that is needed for us to experience an eternal life in heaven with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. God tells us so in II Corinthians 5:18-21. II Corinthians 5:18-21 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. In the verses above, we see that those saved by believing the gospel of the grace of God have been given the Ministry of Reconciliation. Reconciliation means that we have “restored fellowship” with God the Father through God the Son. It is through the death of Jesus Christ that we have the forgiveness of our sins and the restoration of fellowship with God the Father. We that are saved are to be “ambassadors for Christ,” and share with the entire world that everyone has been reconciled to God the Father through the death of God the Son. We are told that God the Father made Jesus Christ to be sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was sinless and He hated sin, yet he took upon Himself the sins of the entire world so that our fellowship with God could be restored. We can have eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ when we believe in and accept His sacrifice for us. Will you receive the love of the truth and believe the gospel of the grace of God, thereby receiving eternal life? Will you then accept your ambassadorship for Christ and the Ministry of Reconciliation by sharing the gospel with your family and friends? By doing so, we can be certain that we have “received the love of the truth.”
Baptism is essential to salvation because it is when one’s sins are forgiven, when one receives the Holy Spirit, when one dies to sin, when one starts a new life, and when one becomes a child of God in Christ. In other words, “Baptism is the time and place that God forgives and saves.” Thus, when it comes to salvation, baptism is not the what but the when. The moment when you receive God’s saving grace is the moment you emerge from the watery tomb of baptism. That is why baptism is essential to salvation. Baptism “completes our response of saving faith,” which “begins with a confessed belief, continues with repentance, and is completed in baptism.”
Water baptism, according to the Bible, is a significant Christian practice that symbolizes the believer’s identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Romans 6:3-4 (NIV) beautifully articulates this, stating, “Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” In essence, water baptism serves as a public declaration of one’s faith in Jesus Christ, signifying a break with the old way of life and a commitment to walk in the newness of life found in Him. It’s a powerful and symbolic act that signifies a spiritual rebirth and a profound transformation within the believer’s heart.
@@donhaddix3770 You stated water baptism serves as a public declaration of one's faith in Jesus Christ. Yet, the scriptures never say this. That doesn't bother you at all? I mean, you quote Romans 6, why not let God's word do the talking and defining of terms and not ADD to God's word?
@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM IS IN WATER 1 Peter 3:20-21 (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Mark 1:9-10 (9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. (10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: Acts 8:38-39 (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
@@HeLivesForever25 sin just means we are separated from God. Spiritual dead because only Christ makes us alive. That does not mean that an alien sinner cannot hear the gospel and be convicted by the Spirit (Rom 10:17).
@@darrellclark2248 Sin does not MEAN that we are separated from God. Sin is the CAUSE of our separation from God. Our separation from God is our spiritual death. Our spirit is dead prior to conversion.
@@HeLivesForever25 I see that you are doing Satan’s work, redefine sin and make it disappear. Sin is violating the Law of God. Separation from God results.
@@HeLivesForever25 You are redefining spirit. Separation from God causes death. Christ gives life. Being separated from God does not mean brain dead. We can respond to Christ by the Spirit in the teaching of the gospel (Rom 10:17).
Please may i ask, Why do people Baptize today? When it doesn't follow the New Testament pattern of Baptism when the Apostle's were commissioned by Jesus to do miracles, speak new tongue's, heal the sick and Baptize? (Mark 16:14-20, Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:5). The Apostle's we're sent to Baptize with the Holy Ghost (today's One Baptism - Ephesians 4:5, Acts 1:5), Apostle Peter was Authorized to Baptize - for example (Acts 2:38-41, Acts 10:43-44) And Paul the Last Apostle wasn't sent to Baptize...? My question remains, they're No Apostle's today (Acts 1:22) since the great commission which happened in Acts, so who are people being Baptized by without the Authority of an Apostle?
Because priests in the Catholic Church have apostolic succession and have authority passed on from Christ to administer the Sacraments. Baptism is the first one. If you read John 14 the prayer Jesus prayed was for his disciples who he commissioned at the Last Supper. When Judas Iscariot betrayed him, the disciples voted to replace him. Peter always had primacy. If you look at Isaiah 22:20-23, Eliakim is made master of the palace in the same way Jesus gives the keys to Peter. It’s through the authority of the Church Christ gives the power to baptize. The Catholic Church recognizes all Christian’s Baptisms done through the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, regardless of whether it was done in a Catholic Church or not. If a person is not sure they were baptized properly (some only baptize in Jesus name, denying the Trinity), then a provisional baptism can be made, but we are only baptized once. It is not done as an outward symbol of what we profess. It is a gift from God, a grace given where we receive the Holy Spirit and the new life in Christ. It only needs to be given once. As stated it is covenant. Any baptized Christian is able to baptize when a soul is in jeopardy of dying. In Catholic baptism there are also prayers of minor exorcism.
You seem to be conflating being baptized for the remission of sins and reception of the Holy Spirit as an initial act of salvation and the passing on of miraculous gifts by the apostles. I believe Philip's work in Samaria in Acts 8 demonstrates the seperation of the two best. Philip went to Samaria to preach the gospel and as some were turning their lives to Christ he baptized them (Acts 8:12-13). Philip was able to perform miraculous gifts as he had received the ability from the Apostles, but he was not an Apostle so could not himself pass them to others. When Peter and John heard they came and administered the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit as was appropriate.
@@ctctreno Philip was ordained. It is apostolic succession. The 1st Century Church baptized as the initial step, yes. We must be baptized. May God bless you in your search for truth.
@@caryntalty4014 Phillip was a Jewish Evangelist who water baptised Jewish Proselytes and Samaritans in Acts Chapter 8. Which has Nothing to do with the New Testament pattern of Salvation for Gentiles. Gentiles did not hear the Gospel until Acts Chapter 10. Furthermore the Great Commission was a Past tense prophecy which was fulfilled in the book of Acts (Matthews 28:19, Mark 16:15-16, Luke 24:49 >>> Acts of The Apostles) A New Testament Apostle MUST have been an eyewitness of Jesus's resurrection, ordained and sent out specifically by Jesus himself before he ascended to heaven after his resurrection (Acts 1:22). Therefore conclusively, With the Exception of Phillip the Evangelist who was led by God Specifically to preach to Jewish Proselytes & the Samaritans in Acts 8 ; Nobody today has Apostolic Authority to baptize anybody, because the great commission was fulfilled in Acts (Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:5 etc) and Apostle Paul was the Last Apostle (1 Corinthians 15:8) and even he wasn't sent to Baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17) and there's a reason for that. Any person attempting to execute Baptism on anybody today is a 'False Apostle".
Believers need to contend for the faith Jude 1, by preaching only the gospel 1Corinthians 9:16; Luke 4:18. Jesus Christ sent His Holy Spirit to teach, not seminaries. Everyone has this opportunity as they study the scriptures to make themselves approved unto GOD and not to man. Once there's a slight deviation from the foundation, it no longer has God's approval, no matter how spiritual or religious. The reason this debate could take place was simply because both sides needed to be right. Neither is right because God doesn't need help to validate His word. His whole counsel from the foundation of the world has been made known and revealed to those who care to seek for it. Deuteronomy 29:29; Romans 1:25-26; Colossians 1:26-27; Psalm 25:14; Matthew 13:11. No debates can ever be used to prove the will of God because it already nullifies the immutability and truth on the word. God's word has been tried and found to be true already Psalm 12:6; and it is already settled in heaven Psalm 119:85, and none of it will ever return to God void Isaiah 55:11-12, for God has magnified His word above all His name Psalm 138:2. Jesus never left any of His commission unfinished John 19:30. Therefore no one outside of His fold belongs to Him. John chapters 10-17. Whosoever would simply seek, believe, accept Him as Lord and Savior and abide in Him, asking for daily infilling and leading of the Holy Spirit, and obediently following His counsel in His revealed world, will never be rejected nor forsaken. John 10:28-30. He is not responsible for sheep outside His fold. Christ is not divided. 1 Corinthians 1:13-17. Each denominations believe as they see fit, and attack one another in order to prove that they're the one that is right. God is not there. Christ is tarrying waiting for everyone to get their acts together and come out of organized religion into the fold of Believers in His sacrificial work of salvation of their souls , abiding in Him until He returns as promised, to ransom, redeem, and take them up to present them faultless before the presence of God the Father, with exceeding joy. The sign of the cross was formulated by those who plotted against Jesus Christ and arrested Him. That was the sign between them and those they had bought to shout "crucify Him!", so that Jesus wouldn't simply be stoned or whipped and let go or killed, He had to be crucified on the cursed tree from the beginning. Let everyone go back to the scriptures and seek out the way for the salvation of their souls. John 5:39, and no longer depend on doctrines of man and his traditions. Matthew 15:3,9. He is coming soon!
He was good, but the other guy was very lucky that Paul Mays wasn’t the one who debated him. Paul mays is amazing If you want to know who Paul mays is, he has a UA-cam channel called A Cappella Hymns and more. He has debated this topic with many false teachers.
We are forgiven through the blood of Jesus Christ and justified through His resurrection. They are not the same thing nor does the same work of Jesus Christ provide them. Mark makes an excellent and eloquent defense for paganism in his opening speech. Everything he teaches is pure paganism, using scripture to defend it.
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. I Corinthians 15:1-4 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us. II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it? Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die. We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went? Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die. Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises. Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan. No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about… …places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way. I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God...
That's what I say.... It is JESUS CHRIST that saves us, removes our sins.... Not water baptism... This amazing gift by accepting the Gospel happens first before we are water baptised
We are commanded to “rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15).” However, hardly anyone does so. Thankfully, those that do “rightly divide the word of truth” are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when they believe the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).
Jeremiah, ignored plain biblical text, and denied the power of the name of Jesus. He twisted passages to ignore textual implications. He falsely separated baptism from the sanctified work of the Holy Spirit. He calls baptism a work of merit that the Bible never-ever does. He puts justification by faith and baptism at odds with one another, which the Bible never does. The Bible says baptism and the saving power of the resurrection go together, this opponent denies it. He makes baptism only an empty symbol, the Bible makes it a symbol that affects what it symbolizes by the Spirit. His organization is more like “the apologetic-kitten” that has no teeth and requires the elementary milk!
Hey, Mike! Question for you. You may have addressed this in the debate but I’m watching bit by bit. But what are your thoughts on someone who is baptized believing that their baptism was only an outward expression of an inward faith - would you say that they’re saved? I’ve been wrestling with this because many of my friends do not believe that water baptism is necessary for justification. Thanks!
Hi, Drew! Thanks for the question! That’s a tough question and it has been quite controversial in the history of the Restoration Movement. Battle lines were drawn over it between the Gospel Advocate under Lipscomb, who argued that such people are scripturally baptized, and the Firm Foundation under McGary, who argued that such persons aren’t scripturally baptized. I feel some power in Lipscomb’s arguments, but I think that rebaptism is the best choice for a couple of reasons. First, Col 2:12 talks about “faith in the working of God.” I exegete “working of God” there to mean God’s work of burying and raising us with Christ in baptism. Thus, baptism is savingly effective through our trust that God is working in baptism. Second, Acts 18:24-19:7 sets forth the pattern that a person with faith in Jesus (Apollos taught everything about Jesus correctly) who receives an unscriptural baptism needs to be rebaptized. I know that these comments are brief. Email us if you’d like anything clarified. Our email is theprogressiveprimitivist@gmail.com 😁
I always look at this way, we go to the doctor because of a reason. I’m hurting or sick and want to get better. The reasoning behind it matters. I wouldn’t go to a doctor and him come into the room and ask me why I’m here and me tell the doctor, I don’t know. That would be very odd. It’s the same way we go to Christ as our healer, people on the day of Pentecost wanted to be healed and to be in a right relationship with God. They knew of their sickness and desired a way to get better. They had a reason and Peter gave them the prescription. The doctor prescribes us meds for the reason we came to him. The reason behind it matters. Just thought I would share and hope it makes sense.
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist Hi! "... they explained to him [Apollos] the way of God more adequately." I am responding to your earlier mention of Acts 18:24-19:7 in this thread. Does the Greek lend any more detail to the short passage that I quoted, as it seems rather vague? Are you of the persuasion that Luke assumes, based on his writing of 19:5, that the reader will put 2 & 2 together regarding Apollos and rebaptism, since he never states this explicitly? Thank you.
It wouldn't be a "rebaptism". It would be getting baptized in accordance with the word of God to understand that we participate in the first importance of the gospel and that it's for remission of sins.
I am of the opinion that scriptural baptism provides an objective experience, rather than a subjective one. By that I mean that as long as one repents towards God and places their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and is immersed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, then, regardless of one’s subjective ideas of what that baptism might be doing, the objective truth of what God does for a sinner at baptism does not change. In other words, one can be wrong about what baptism does, but still receive the benefits (as long as one is following the NT model of baptizing new converts upon profession of repentance and faith).
Excellent debate on both sides. Dr. Shaye Cohen and others also conflate circumcision and baptism: both representing entry into the covenant. Mike likewise seems to remove CoC from works righteousness when he showed evidence that Paul placed baptism outside of works.
I sort of agree. I won't discuss baptism with the COC unless the worldview and definitions are settled first. The COC redefines and ignores 95% of what happens in salvation. Therefore, discussing water baptism is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Complete waste of time.
The gentleman desires to rewrite Acts 2:38 because he thinks the grammar requires it. He doesn't seem to get that no real translation of Act 2:38 accepts his way of translating the passage. That should give him a clue, but when you do not want to accept what it actually say, very smart people have attempted every TRICK in the books. This guy doesn't get it. He thinks Mike only thinks pistis mean "mental assent." Any honest person will see that the word faith has many connotations including the word "Trust."
Any honest person examining COC theology and history will know for a fact that the COC does think PISTIS means mental assent, because they use that argument every time this issue is discussed. FAITH is a synonym for TRUST, which the COC do not believe, do not teach, and utterly reject.
In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
@@donhaddix3770 No man was ever given authority to baptize people with the Holy Spirit. Only Christ could do that. And no one was ever commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit -- that was a promise, not a command. But the baptism administered by the apostles was a command (Acts 10:47). And the baptism in the Holy Spirit was not for all people, but for only a few. The baptism of "the Great Commission" (Mark 16:15,16; Matthew 28:19) was for all people and was to be administered by followers of Christ. That is the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was to empower people, as Jesus told the apostles, "Ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you" (Acts 1:8). The purpose of the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 was for an entirely different purpose.
@@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED; but he that believeth not Shall be damned. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@@kac0404 Ephesians 4:4-6 says, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Since there are different "baptisms" referred to in the New Testament, it can be a bit confusing when we read about "one baptism." The word baptize always means “to submerge or immerse.” So, when baptism is discussed, it involves a person being totally submerged into something else. Baptism implies being "all in." It also implies that a change has taken place. Baptized people are changed people. Generally speaking, there are two types of baptism: a physical (water) baptism and a spiritual baptism. One is done in water; the other is accomplished in the Holy Spirit. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus for all of His followers (Acts 1:8). Colossians 2:12 says, "Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." Being baptized with water does not save us; faith in the finished work of Christ saves us (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:9). But water baptism is an outward indication of an inward change. It is a wonderful picture of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Being immersed in water symbolizes the cleansing of our hearts and the washing away of our sin by the blood of Jesus (Acts 2:38). Through water baptism, believers publicly proclaim their testimony that they have been born again by the grace of God. Romans 6:3 speaks of a spiritual baptism: "Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" This spiritual baptism “into Christ” is performed by the Holy Spirit the moment a repentant sinner accepts the gift of salvation and is born again (John 3:5; Ephesians 2:18; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Acts 8:12). We respond to the Holy Spirit’s drawing and are born into God’s family (John 6:44; 1 Corinthians 6:19). By this "baptism," we are identified with the death and resurrection of Jesus; from then on, we consider ourselves "crucified with Christ" (Galatians 2:20). We choose to lose ourselves and be immersed in Him (Matthew 16:24), and the Holy Spirit makes that happen. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was promised by John the Baptist, who said that Jesus “will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Luke 3:16). No one understood what John meant until after Jesus had ascended back into heaven (Acts 1:9). Jesus had promised the disciples that He would send "the Comforter" (John 14:26; 15:26; Luke 24:49). His followers were to wait in Jerusalem until the "promise from the Father" came (Acts 1:4). That promise came in Acts 2. The Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples, and they were never the same again. They were bold in their witness, empowered to perform miracles, willing to endure persecution, and all but one died a martyr’s death. The church had begun. Throughout the book of Acts, that baptism by the Holy Spirit was repeated as people came to know Jesus, both Jew and Gentile, and served to unify the church as the Jewish believers realized that the Holy Spirit was poured out on their Gentile brothers as well. There are some differences of opinion among believers concerning the baptism of the Spirit. Some Christians believe Holy Spirit baptism is identical to being baptized into Christ and that it occurs at the moment of salvation, even if the believer is unconscious of it. Other Christians believe Holy Spirit baptism is to be equated with the filling of the Spirit and that often occurs after salvation-years later, perhaps-as the believer opens himself up to the Spirit’s control. Some believe that the baptism of the Spirit is always accompanied by signs (such as speaking in tongues), and others believe that such signs are unnecessary. When Paul wrote to the Ephesian believers about "one baptism," he was reminding them that, regardless of their background or nationality, they all served the same Lord, shared the same faith, and had experienced the same baptism. He could be referring to water baptism; i.e., all believers have the same testimony of salvation and have been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Or he could be referring to Spirit baptism; i.e., all believers have been placed into the Body of Christ through the Spirit’s power. Either way, the emphasis is on unity among Christians. Verse 3 says, "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace." The Holy Spirit works to unify believers and provides assurance that they are children of God (Romans 8:16; Ephesians 1:13-14). By reminding the church that they all had a similar testimony and that they were all partakers in the same Holy Spirit, Paul encouraged them to work together for the cause of Christ so that the message of redemption would continue to spread throughout the world (Matthew 28:19).
You guys are so determined to label us as a cult but you are very poor exegetes. Remove the log out of your own eyes before you attempt to remove the speck out of your brother’s eyes.
@@HeLivesForever25 Whether you are brother, I know not. I preach the word of God. Your ideas that you display are very sectarian and very legalistic. You talk but say nothing. Scripture means very little to you. You reject justification by faith. Faith is not enough, you believe faith plus correct doctrine saves. Faith plus denial of scripture is your creed. John wrote that one shows he knows God because he keeps his commandments (1 John 2:3-6). I choose God and his way.
This is why sola scriptura is FALSE. Good faith people come to different conclusions reading the same scripture. An authority is necessary to properly interpret scripture, and Christ instituted this authority when He established the Catholic Church.
Yeah and they used that so called authority to introduce false doctines that go against the bible. Pretty some the Catholic church will be marrying gay people , they already bless them individually and call Muslims brothers who worship the same God . really the Roman Catholic church started in the 4th century. Everyone from protestants to secular historians know this. Only the rcc says , umm no our church started in 33ad LOL😂😂😂😂😂
@@kac0404 the comment made perfect sense... Just because you can't understand it is your problem. The response to the Catholic is sound. Just because you have an authoritative body does not mean they will interpret scriptures properly. The Jehovah witnesses have a authoritative body to interpret scriptures and yet deny the deity of CHRIST. The RCC have dogmas that say you can pray to Mary and Saints. CoC says salvation happens at water baptism. These are all wrong according to scripture , so my comment makes perfect sense to people with an IQ over 100. Anyway I'm a good old fashioned non calvinistic Baptist.
"Unless a man be born again of WATER and the Holy Spirit, he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God. " .;"and there are three that ber witness on earth: the Spirit and the WATER and the Blood; and these three are ONE." First Letter of St. John. Therefore, there is no benefit from blood of Christ for "washing away" of sin from the soul if it is not united to the Water of the Sacrament of Baptism, nor is there a work of the Spirit in the soul if it is not united to the Water of Baptism.Very simple. You people are all over the place except at the center where the Truth is found, because you wil not heaar the Church (singular) and founded by Christ 2000 years ago on the "rock" of Peter to whom alone He ave the "Keys o the Kingdom of heaven". Why don't you go study what the early fathers of the Catholic Church (east and west - first four centuries of Christianity) unanimously taught about the sacrament of baptism and its absolute necessity for the salvation of every human creature? They were scrupulously faithful to what Christ solemnly taught, unlike you, who because it is a "work", (although you try to prove that it is not a work to conform scripture to your pet heresy of faith alone saves), you must declare that baptism is not necessary, because it works no change in the soul of the believer and is only a symbol of is/her faith (not defining however what you mean by "faith") Fact is: there is no baptism without the work of human hands pouring the water, or filling the pool into which the Catechumen will descend ( both DO something, right?) as in the Eastern rites of Baptism.. Christ and his apostles commanded works, beginning with Baptism, but you people teach that what He and his Apostles after Him commanded to be done as necessary for salvation is not necessary for salvation. "Go into the whole world and preach the Gospel to every creature...Baptizing them . teaching them to observe (DO) all things that I have COMMANDED you." Case closed.
A question for all church of christ persons.... How would you unskew, propositionalize and bring out the implied relationship of the genitive construction (baptism of repentance) in Mark 1:4? 😊 I challenge all church of christ persons, on any topic, on the phone! ❤
John's purpose was to prepare people for the coming Christ (Matthew 11:10). Paul explained, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus" (Acts 19:4). It wasn't the same as Christ's baptism. We see this in Ephesus because after Paul explained the difference, the men in Ephesus were baptized again, this time into Christ (Acts 19:5).
@philjackson5387 John's baptism of the people is the first mention of baptism in the Bible. Water was used in the Old Testament for ceremonial cleansing to remove uncleanness (Numbers 19:7), but there is no mention of complete immersion, particularly in connection with the removal of sin. Some have claimed that John was extending an old custom from the ancient days of Israel, but such is not found in the Bible. That baptism was a new rite is shown by the Jews’ question of John, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” (John 1:25). They questioned his right to add a new ordinance if he did not have sufficient authority. They understood that ordinary men cannot change the practices authorized by God.
I suppose that your point is that the prepositional phrase (εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν) modifies repentance, which is in the genitive (μετανοίας), and not baptism (βάπτισμα). Thus, John preached that one was to repent for forgiveness and to be baptized to demonstrate that they’d done so. If that’s your argument, the problem is that prepositional phrases in such constructions generally modify the main noun and not the modifying noun in the genitive case.
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist Very good my friend..... Lots of truth in your statement..... It is incomplete due to you not propositionalizing it, but very close..... 1 Peter 5:14 is a genitive construction of the same class: result- reason........ If you are married, do you kiss your wife to demonstrate your love for her or express the love expecting nothing in return? Just a thought.... Have you seen me answer this question in another post elsewhere? :))
Jesus Christ came and died for sins and sinners. Mark chapters 14-16; Isaiah 53 ( Research what is meant by " He was bruised...He was broken..., and you will understand the extent of what He went through for His alledged crime!) To actually understand who the runner in Mark 14, verse 51...is, one has to take the whole chapter into consideration. 1) Jesus had just finished with the last supper, He had just declared that one of His own would be betraying Him. What does the word "betray" mean? 2) He had just left in the middle of the night to go to the Mount of Olives, and went alone further with 3 of His desciples- to pray, and it is written that He began to be " sore amazed...and very heavy". What could trouble His soul to such an extent as to have to even ask His desciples to - a) sit here, close to Him, while He prays; b) letting them know the extent of and reason for the sorrow in his SOUL! and to still " tarry and watch" c) what could have made Him to plead with His Father to try and take away this cup- filled with wrath of God, especially for the impending trap that has been prepared for Him, leading to His final mission to end the cycle of sin which began in Genesis 3. d) why was it important for Him that His desciples "watch and pray?", and what could be so bad to make His and their flesh weak? Verses 32-38? Why would there have to be present, tge priests, scribes, elders, and a great multitude? Verse 43? What must they witness that would be so outrageous and abominable, that would demand immediate arrest and subsequent insult, maltreatment of Jesus Christ, that even His desciples wouldn't want to be associated with him? And suddenly, there appeared a "certain naked young man, simply clad with a linen cloth, left and fled naked? What was his role in the setup of Jesus Christ, in a remote place, in the middle of the night? What did they want to show concerning Jesus Christ? Why would even their witnesses not agree? Wasn't it because they didn't understand the depth of their satanic mind? This man claimed to be the Son of God, and the descendant of King David, and was now found in a blatantly staged compromising situation? Verse 61: Why was it important for them to ask about His status as " the Christ, the Son of the Most BLESSED?" Implying he was cursed? Funny, that was the only question He answered because it was the Truth! The Truth they were not willing to accept, instead smeared His reputation for the who world to see, since Jerusalem was teeming with people from all over for the feast of passover! The most admirable and regal thing about this is that Jesus Christ kept quiet, even when they condemned Him to death according to Leviticus 20:13, with all the false witnesses to corroborate their false accusations of blasphemous conduct and speech, spitting on and making fun of Him verses 55-65! Wow! He actually preferred to be condemned to death, rather than say anything that would condemn even the man that fled naked from the scene! He would have made them look for him and arrest him for lewd conduct and immoral act. But, didn't Jesus Christ come to seek and save the lost- even those who are called immoral and who commit abomination? This just proved how Jesus Christ paid for the punishment of every one, especially those who the scriptures condemned as committing abomination, they were the most beneficial of His condemnation and subsequent punishment and eventual cursed death on the cross of Calvary. Anyone who still tramples on His shed blood, after seeing what He did for them, by continuing in their pernicious ways, would have no more plea for sin. They will be looking forward to a fiery judgment on that day, but God will be Just and Righteous in judgment! He put the most needful for the last, He never overlooked anyone, no matter who they are or the nature of their sins, He paid for them all! Thus, the naked man clad with linen cloth in verses 51 and 52, the bait set up to implicate Jesus Christ and anyone associated with Him. I believe that Judas was blindsided with the appearance of this young man, and this made him regret ever colluding with these people, because that wasn't part of the agreement, and this got him to commit suicide!Let us remember that these people will do anything in order to get their way. They actually went to catch a woman committing adultery in the very act, John 8: 3-11 so that they can have something to trap Jesus. They have been looking for ways to get rid of Him, and this naked young guy was it! That would be the reason why Peter vehemently denying knowing Jesus Christ 3 times, and Jesus Christ was left alone to finish the work of salvation of the soul of man by paying the ultimate wages of sin: cursed death on the cross! He was buried, and He rose again from the dead on the 3rd day. So all who believe in Him should have justification from sin and would be imputed with the righteousness of God, by grace through faith in His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection, and will have everlasting life 1 Corinthians 15:51-58, when He presents them faultless before the presence of God the Father, with exceeding joy! Jude 24. Whosoever does not believe and abide till the end, Matthew 24:13, when He returns to take up all His purchased possession, 1Thesalonians 4:13-18, will be condemned to everlasting fire Isaiah 66:24. We all get to make informed choices and decisions, so God will be righteous and just when He judges, and every mouth will be stopped on that day! Romans 3:19; Acts 17:31; Psalm 96:13; Isaiah 11:4; Psalm 51:4.7! Crucify yourself with Christ and live forever. Galatians 2:20.
at pentacost the holy spirit came first, then baptism. the thief was not baptized. Acts 10:47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
@@sonsofpolaris6102 there are no exceptions. salvation is by repentance in faith. the Holy Spirit makes it real. water baptism tells the world we have been saved. sanctification is growth. same for all all the time.
@@sonsofpolaris6102 water, female birth. baby in womb in water. woman breaks water at birth. messy, like when my wife broke at water at sons birth. first birth flesh. Many verses emphasize salvation by grace through faith without mentioning water baptism: 1. John 1:12 2. John 3:14-18, 36 (whoever) 3. John 5:24 4. John 6:29-40, 47, 69 (whoever, everyone) 5. John 11:25-26 (whoever) 6. John 12:46-50 (whoever) 7. John 16:7-9 (not believe) 8. John 17:20-22 9. John 20:31 10. Acts 2:21,33 (everyone) 11. Acts 10:43-48 (whoever, water baptism follows belief and Holy Spirit’s work of salvation) 12. Acts 13:38-39, 48 (everyone) 13. Acts 15:8-11 14. Acts 16:30-31 (answer to a direct question: What must I do to be saved?) 15. Acts 26:18 16. Romans 1:16 (everyone) 17. Romans 3:20-31 (all who believe) 18. Romans 4:1-11 19. Romans 4:23-25 20. Romans 5:1-21 21. Romans 9:30-33 (whoever) 22. Romans 10:4-13 (everyone, whoever) 23. Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:1-28 (whoever, baptism secondary to faith) 24. Galatians 5:5-6 25. Ephesians 2:8-10 26. Philippians 3:4-14 27. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17 28. Hebrews 4:2-3 29. 1 Peter 2:6 30. 1 John 1:5-10 31. 1 John 4:15 (God abides in whoever confesses Christ) 32. 1 John 5:1, 10-13 (whoever) 33. Other verses mention belief without water baptism: Luke 7:50; John 2:11, 23; John 4:39, 41; John 7:38-39; John 8:30-32; John 9:35-36; John 10:42; John 11:45, 48; John 12:11, 42-44; John 14:1, 12; John 20:31; Acts 14:23; Acts 20:21; Romans 15:13; Philippians 1:29; Titus 3:8. There nine instances of conversion in the book of Acts without reference to baptism: Acts 3:1-4:4, Acts 5:1-14, Acts 9:32-35, Acts 11:19-24, Acts 13:6-12, Acts 13:42-52, Acts 14:1, Acts 17:10-12, Acts 17:22-34. Did the authors miss the opportunity to mention baptism in these many passages if it is so important?
How do you know, whether the thief had been baptized by John or not? The Baptism of John was...the council of God! (John 6: 29)! The thief on the cross died under the Law of Moses! Acts 2: 38, was under the Law of Christ and is also the "council" of God! Paul was told..."arise be baptized, wash away thy sins"! Cornelius was told to fetch for Peter, who would tell him "WORDS", whereby, He and his household would be saved"! (Acts 2: 38) John 6: 29, "believing"... is a work of God, which we must do! Romans 16: 16, ...the churches of Christ salute you..."! One Lord...One faith...One baptism! The baptism of John was fulfilled before Pentecost! (Acts chapter two)!
Romans 9:8-24 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls- 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory- 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? Salvation is a sovereign work of God. God chose whom he would save in Christ from eternity past according to his eternal decree, based off nothing we had done either good or bad - before we were born. Thats why Paul says in v16 it (salvation) does not depend on human will or exertion. Faith, repentance, baptism, nothing we do "causes salvation". Election v11 is the root cause of everything to do with our justification, sanctification, and glorification (Rom 8:28-30, Eph 1:4-5, Eph 2:1-10) because we are all by nature rebels against God and incapable of doing anything God commands apart from His Grace working in use to bring it about. (John 6:37, John 6:44, John 6:65, Romans 8:7-8, Acts 13:48) salvation is by grace alone- through faith alone.
First, please remember that Jesus Christ has His own fold John 10. All Believers must now remain in this fold John 15. This fold is made up of only those who hear and believe in His sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 10. They are now sealed and led by the Holy Spirit, or better still baptized into Him- as members of His body, by the Holy Spirit - John 20-22 Ephesians1:13-14. (Like it was in the book Genesis 2:7), else they have no life of God in them Ephesians 2:12; Romans 8:9,14. They must now only be led by the Holy Spirit. How? By daily studying the scriptures, which is written for our examples, admonitions, teaching, exhortation, etc. We learn from them how God dealt with those before us and will do the same to us. If we do not take to heart, the lesson learned. God permitted people to gather in churches for this very purpose. Now, it's no longer the case. The churches began to separate themselves into denominations, using the very word of the God they do not know, to lord it over unsuspecting and ignorant congregants. The issue of tithes and offerings got their wheels going smoothly until these same are used to crush and curse the very people that fund them. Paul collected money from the gentiles to help Believer Jews in Jerusalem, not for his personal use. He was a very wealthy young ruler who got his calling deferred Luke 18:18-22; Galatians 1:11-16, he saw the light - literally. He then counted it as dung, just to know Jesus Christ alone, Philippians 3. Unfortunately, they now use God's laws, which is specifically for the Jews, before He rejected them, for believers in this dispensation of grace. Romans 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:12; Deuteronomy 4:19; Acts 13:32; Malachi chapters1-4. Unfortunately, these buildings become their personal property once they are done, and none of those who helped had any claims to it. The schools are not affordable, and only those who could pay could send their children, etc. They do charity work only to be seen, as the law specified, as a non for profit organization, nothing to do with God. Even godly acts may not necessarily be approved by God. Jesus Christ sent His Holy Spirit, specifically to teach, lead, and guide. He only helps those who call on God, out of a sincere heart. They are kept in the fold: one faith, one Lord, one Baptism, etc. And only those in the fold, watching and praying, an love His appearing will be taken up and out to be presented faultless before the presence of God the Father, with exceeding joy, on that day! All it takes it hear the gospel, believe, confess, and ask for daily infilling and leading of the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13. You don't ask and believe, you don't get. Why? Because God is Holy and Righteous. He can't give you what you don't ask for and believe for while waiting patiently to receive. The operative word is "patiently " We all learned something from churches, but now they have gone aside from what they have been teaching. God is not mocked. Therefore, the assembly of ourselves is what you and I are doing right now - for where two or three are gathered, there, Jesus Christ, is, in the midst of them Matthew 18:20. Not necessarily in an organized building. They take nothing with them, whether they die or are taken up! Why live like this earth is your home? Proverbs 1:20-33! (Why God seems not to answer when we cry out. Because we are living outside of His grace - in utter disobedience and disregard for His love in Jesus Christ).
I believe that if you put your left foot in and you take your left foot out, then you do the Hokey Pokey and shake it all about, then you'll be Justified (whatever that means). 🤣
Justification, salvation and sanctification Justification - forgiveness, the clearing of all of my guilt and the deserved penalty for committed sins, through faith in Jesus Christ, who took on the penalty for my sins and paid the price by dying in my stead. (Galatians 2:16) This leads to salvation. Salvation - saved from the penalty of committed sin, but - even greater - also from the very root of sin; from the bondage I was in to the body of sin. (Hebrews 7:19, 25) The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in me and works in me, leading me to overcome sin before it is committed. I am saved from the necessity of committing sin just because I have sin - which leads to … Sanctification - This is the result of salvation. It is the transformation from human to divine nature (2 Peter 1:2-4; 1 Peter 1:15-16; Matthew 5:48); being made holy. This is a process I undergo throughout my lifetime as I, in obedience to the Spirit, put off the works of the flesh and take on the fruit of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-16)
@@donhaddix3770 The phrase "washed, sanctified, and justified" appears in 1 Corinthians 6:11, which says, "You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". Some theological traditions believe that baptism gives baptized people a new heart for God.
A person must be “baptized” to be saved, but it has nothing to do with water. The proof is found below. Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit) Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then the Holy Spirit came from heaven. (Acts 10:38) The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church? The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again) Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.) Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment) ============ Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says? What did Peter say below? Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 1:5, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water/ every time they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage? Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13) “baptize” KJV Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.) Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5) Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant)
@@sonsofpolaris6102 I was "born of water" during 1955 shortly after my mother said to my faither..."My water just broke." Nicodemus was talking about natural childbirth in the verse below. Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Anyone who has to use ridicule or condemnation to make their Bible doctrine work has revealed the doctrine for what it really is. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Your idea is a false dichotomy. In scripture spirit and water are linked. Baptism is not an Old Testament issue. It is not proselyte baptism which was a ceremonially washing. Proselyte baptism was a washing the person performed himself for ceremonial cleansing. This is not the context of John or apostolic baptism.
@@darrellclark2248 The differences between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary are not my idea. Jesus lived His whole life perfectly under the Old Covenant until the moment He died at Calvary and God ripped the temple veil in half from the top to the bottom. See Hebrews 12:18-24. We are not come to Mount Sinai in verse 18. We are come instead to the new covenant church of Mount Sion and the blood of Jesus in verses 22-24. What did Peter say below? Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. A person must be baptized to be saved, but it has nothing to do with water. The proof is found below. Eating Kosher is not unbiblical, but it is not required under the New Covenant. Circumcision of male children is not unbiblical, but it is not required under the New Covenant. Trimming your beard according to the Law of Moses is not unbiblical, but it is not required under the New Covenant. Water baptisms were a part of the Old Covenant, but they are not required under the New Covenant. The proof is found below. John baptized with water. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Which one is related to salvation, based on Romans 8:9? . Heb. 9:10 (YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them . (Old Covenant ------> New Covenant) . Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (What is the one baptism of our faith here, based on Eph. 1:12-13, and 1 Cor. 12:13?) . Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, . 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. . Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. . Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. . Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (See Mark 1:8.)
@@SpotterVideo You have not proven anything that is in question. To say water has “nothing” to with the salvific event is to ignore the many texts to the contrary. We can argue that God delivered the Israelites from bondage without denying the miracle of the walking on dry ground through the Red Sea. The Deliverance included the Sea, even though God was at the center of every action. Baptism is much like this: read 1 Cor 10:1-2. We have promises and fulfillment of said promises. Baptism is a mystery because it is an event where Christ and a man meet.(Rom 6:1-6).
When you equate baptism to such rituals, you are not following either Paul or Jesus. Baptism has connected the salvific miracle of the Christ mystery to the believer’s condition by the Spirit. This is where you stray from biblical truth.
Yes, it is a necessary part of Salvation. Believe is most always associated or followed with baptism, such as the Eunuch, whom Phillip baptized, "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him" (Acts 8:36-38). The Great Commission, Jesus Christ's last commandment to the Apostles was, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" (Matthew 28:19). The Scriptures also state, "He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16).
I had this debate suggested on Jeremiah's channel, but found Mike Hisaw to have presented the better case. I found Jeremiah inconsistent, and that there wasnt a clear exegesis on Acts.
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist Mr. Hisaw did extremely well to say it's his first debate. I think there's room to improve during the cross examination. I agree that throughout the debate Jeremiah and Mike were missing each other's points.
Jeremiah at 1:22:12, "We both reject their entire theology (Lutheran). This is ironic because he more than likely has Luther's theology of salvation if he subscribes to Penal Substitutionary Atonement, that is, positional righteousness. Very ironic that he doesn't recognize just how much he really follows Luther. He says at 1:20, "You have to watch out for Lutherans". Apparently he hasn't watched closely enough.
@@TheApologeticDog Do you take the position that the Baptists are the original church that Jesus built and that churches like yours have existed in every age?
@@TheOrthodoxLandmarker-jy2zs no, I believe that the church is sanctified over time, which is the process of Jesus building His church. I do think the core of the gospel has always existed which is justification is by grace through faith apart from works
@@TheApologeticDog What does that mean "the church is sanctified over time"? Matt. 16:18, Eph 3:21, Dan. 2:44 confirm that Jesus established his kingdom during the days of the Roman Caesars, comprised of churches at his first advent and that the gates of hell would not prevail and that true churches would exist in every age. If Baptists aren't the true churches then where and who are they? Also Penal Substitutionary Atonement, along with positional righteousness didn't exist until the end of the 11th century. It was invented by Anselm, Archbishop of Canterbury. Additionally, the soteriology you are advocating was invented by Martin Luther. So how can these things be the Gospel? They had no existence prior to those dates and so your theory is faulty. Have you ever studied the Ante Nicene Fathers?
@@TheOrthodoxLandmarker-jy2zs I think you are confusing the invention of the terms with the substance. That is like saying Tertullian invented the Trinity. Maybe you actually think that. The church are the called out ones by grace through faith apart from works. The 2nd century saints have matured over time in their understanding of doctrine over time
Baptism is INTO( eis) Christ and marks a change of relationship! ( Gal. 3:26-27).In this Debate Mark is doing a masterful job of defending the truth in baptism against the faith only advocate.
@TheApologeticDog dude, that's all you got. Nothing. Why are you still a Calvinist? You can not prove it is justification before man in the text AT ALL. The context itself refutes it as your opponent easily pointed to by order of argument. Literally, James goes to an argument that absolutely has NOTHING TO DO WITH JUSTIFICATION BEFORE MEN. So James to bolster his position goes to a argument that has absolutely nothing to do with it as his first argument of presentation. LOL. Which is directly after your focus point and as well as James Whites. You attempted to throw in a comment later about it, which made little sense to the point of contention. Stop being a Calvinist....
Agreed! It runs counter to the obvious facts of the passage (v 19-why would demons tremble because men don’t approve of them?and scholarly opinion (BDAG).
@@TheApologeticDogwhat a way to demonstrate love by answering with a sarcastic and demeaning answer. Peter tells us to be ready to give an answer, not give a sarcastic one liner. I would like to hear your actual answer to the above question, I guess, that is, if you actual have one.
Think about it jesus never baptized anybody in water and jesus refused to baptize John the Baptist in water. The truth is water baptism ended when John baptized jesus. John had to complete his testimony ❗❗
@@artistart55 Jesus wanted to do it "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:13-15). It was "right" to openly desire identification with the will of God. And, it was at the moment of Jesus' baptism that God openly called Jesus His Son "in Whom I am well pleased" (Matthew 3:16-17). While Jesus was not baptized "for remission of sins," He was baptized to fill the order of what was right. Jesus felt it would be unrighteous or wrong to not be baptized.
@@kac0404 the baptism of Jesus, was not for Jesus , it was for JOHN to fulfill his testimony. JOHN 5:31-35 ( Jesus speaking) “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. 33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; BUT I MENTION IT THAT YOU MAY BE SAVED. JOHN 1:6-7 John was sent to witness and testify about Jesus
I wish the debate had been with a free will or non-reformed Baptist. Then it could have actually been about baptism. When you argue with a calvinist about any topic you're really just arguing about Calvinism with them.
Mark sticks to plain scriptures on faith and baptism! Jeremiah denies or fails to note Acts 2:38:Matt.28:19:Titus 3:5:Rom .6:3-4,etc.which plainly teach the essentiity of baptism as an act of submission to the Saviour.
Strawman argument, PEople who follow God's command to be baptized for the remission of sins are prideful and being meritorious. He's the one proud he's not like the others as somehow he's superior in believing and yet refusing baptism as JEsus cmmanded. Go ye therefore into all the world and make disciples of all nations, (how)baptizing them .
@@montyeason3973 In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
@@donhaddix3770 well salvation comes at judgement at the end of life, does it not? Until then we say like the Apostle Paul that we hope for it…. I think you and I mean the same thing just with different words, do we not? Paul teaches us to run the race…. What we hope for is final perseverance and full repentance by the grace of God.
@@caryntalty4014 it comes at repentance. only the lost are judged at the end of time. the saved go to heaven immediately at death. 2 Corinthians 5:8 King James Version 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
If it’s faith alone the transgender 🏳️⚧️ are saved by just believing and they don’t obey God by their works. They are doing whatever they want!! That what 2nd guy is saying as long as u believe in God he going save you.
@@TheApologeticDog Why don’t you show me the Bible verse for faith alone. What happens when you don’t follow the Bible like it written. If it’s faith alone like you say then you give the transgenders free pass too
The reason you believe they can live as they want is that you have a wrong understanding of the nature of man. Your world view is secular humanism, and your understanding of salvation has nothing to do with God or man.
The "Church ", isn't the building where people congregate to worship who or what they like, it is the New Creation of God, made up of believers in the sacrificial death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, from all over the world, no matter their background. They're daily infilled with and led by the Holy Spirit, kept in His fold until He returns to redeem His purchased possession, as promised, and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father. The Holy Spirit has left these buildings, thus they can do as they please. They didn't say they wanted to be saved or seek eternal life with Christ Jesus in God, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, so, let them be. Nebuchadnezzar and the Romans could only enter the temple to destroy it only after the presence and glory of GOD left Ezekiel chapters 8-11; Matthew 24:1. The restraining power had left! This power instantly killed even the high priest who came with the tiniest of sin, how much more the heathen or unbelievers. The end justifies the means. They're doing what feels best for them, knowing that this world is programmed to fail- everything is geared toward vanity. Esau had his bowl of porridge, he lived to regret it. Most of these preachers already got fat from the offerings and tithes of gullible, unsuspecting congregants, and they're blinded by the five senses, which only ends in death and destruction. Life only comes in abiding in Christ Jesus till the end. John 8:21; Matthew 24:13. They're feeling good, so let them enjoy their fleeting time. They didn’t know the Way, the Truth and the Life, but they're putting together their own truth, to sell to those who would buy it. The five foolish virgins are already lining up to "buy" oil for their dead lamp, because they didn't bring enough. Both they and the sellers will be outside of the shut gate...but, there's still time this day, for any of them who would turn back to the fold. If they can bear to leave their temporal comfort zones, and seek for the eternal. 1 John 2:19; Hebrews chapters 6 and 10. No excuses on that day!
The progressive primitives, Mike Hisaw quotes the Greek when it suits him but he doesn't quote the Greek when it proves him wrong about water baptism. Naughty.
Nowhere does the Biblical Greek say water baptism saves,washes sins away, remits sins, puts people into the body of Christ, regenerates or justifies.
In Matt 28: 19. Jesus said FIRST make disciples,(get them saved, born again, justified).
Then baptise them in water.
This is how Acts 2: 38 reads in the Biblical Greek, and this is how the people would have heard and understood Peter
"Repent for the remission of sins, then when you are saved , you can be baptized in water, and you can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.".
bro actually said naughty lol
@@TheApologeticDogyou definitely brought the TRUTH, also you brought the best beard on UA-cam LOL. Double win
@@adamguy33 my wife makes me trim it constantly :D
No this is just bad Greek🤣 Why has no modern English translation translated Acts 2:38 this way?
@TheProgressivePrimitivist because all translations of the Bible, are just that, they are man's translations who have misled Biblically ignorant people.
We HAVE to go by what the Biblical Hebrew and Greek say, NOT what the translators have said.
Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again, not baptized and Jesus hadn't died or resurrected yet! Jesus clarified what being born of water is in John 3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh. No one is born again in a ceremony performed by humans that sin. One is born again by the Spirit.
And what is baptism? A death (Romans 6:3), a burial (Colossians 2:12), and a resurrection (1 Peter 3:21). You gonna just ignore all that? THAT is a rebirth!
Dude no one held the beleif that baptism wasn’t salvific till the 1500’s NO ONE case closed
@@Concatenate water is your god
Nonsense! Jesus told his disciples to go into the whole world and BAPTIZE those who believed "in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost". which belief of faith included obeying and doing all the things He commanded his apostles to "teach them" to do.; You people nit pick your way into perdition. What pertinacious folly.. "Always studying and never coming to the knowledge of the truth" -Letter of St.Jude. You need to read what the early Fathers of the Church (first four centuries of Christianity) unanimously taught. It is not what your "pastors" teach.
True. It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word.
If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism.
John 7:37-39
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Mike, thank you for your studious work and for presenting the historic Christian teaching on baptism like a gentleman. A side note on Reformed Baptists, for being such a creedal tradition it’s funny considering the earliest ecumenical creed (the Nicene Creed) quotes Ephesians 4:5 and Acts 2:38 near its end: “I confess one baptism for the remission of sins”! This was a very helpful debate and I appreciated both of your demeanors but thank you again Mike for doing a wonderful job. Love your channel btw, may God bless your work for the sake of the gospel.
Great point!
Well, let’s be honest. That clause in the Nicene Creed was put there to justify infant baptism, not the credobaptism of the Campbellites. Neither you nor the baptists are baby baptizers. So that’s a bit of an unfair critique.
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
@@toddstevens9667 the Nicene creed is dated at 325 a.d. Although the mode of baptism was changing, it's significance had not yet been lost. In fact, the oldest 2 denominations have never lost the significance of baptism. The problem with that teaching is that faith and repentance are required for salvation, which infants cannot accomplish.
We are saved by grace alone, absolutely, but we are NOT saved by faith alone, but by faith, repentance, baptism, and by loving God!
Faith +nothing = salvation+baptism +works
@@josephdoctor6423 Faith + nothing = dead (James 2:17)
@Concatenate that verse was successful discussed on the debate I don't have to explain it for you
@@josephdoctor6423 Please explain how Abraham offering Isaac is justification before men, please.
@@Concatenate James 2 speaks of vindication. We are called to vindicate our faith. Abraham already believed and trusted God. By being willing to kill his son, he was vindicating his faith. Proving that his trust in God was true. Would you say vindicating your faith is a work for salvation or because of salvation?
Church of Christ won the debate
In Romans 6:3-4 Paul wrote, “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” At what point does Paul indicate that one dies to sin and receives new life? When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
holy spirit baptism, not water. water is a work.
@@donhaddix3770 The first thing one should observe is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was never given as a command to be administered by man, nor was it to be obeyed by man. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise to be received by certain men chosen for a certain purpose. When Jesus spoke on the subject between His resurrection and His ascension, He appeared to the chosen apostles, speaking to them things concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 1:1-3). Among the things spoken to them were the following words: “ … wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” {He said,} “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:4-5 NAS).
@@kac0404 agree
@@donhaddix3770 Pure nonsense!
@@kac0404 I get that those who refuse to acknowledge Baptism being necessary, just for some reason, pick and choose what to believe that baptism is a work are so far lost that if Jesus was standing in front of them, they would argue with him not being necessary! But, it’s their choice!
You hit the nail on the head in the concluding statement when you said if you read a verse that’s clear in its command and can’t accept it because of your theology, it’s probably wrong.
Thanks for your encouragement!
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist I have witnessed and read many Church of Christ debates over the years. Your attitude, demeanor, and respect for your opponent are exemplary. Peace to you.
If you read a verse that's crystal clear, but it contradicts your theology, your understanding of the verse is automatically wrong. Single verses do not trump clear theology.
@@HeLivesForever25 And the “clear” theology is that Baptism is Essential for salvation. No way you can say it is Not a command and be truthful!
@@mikeivey7167 I never said being baptized in water wasn't a command. No one who believes in faith alone has ever said that either.
I've watched 30 minutes so far. Jeremiah devastates his opponent in his opening. And he's right about definitions. Mark defined NOTHING. Jeremiah defined all of his terms. Jeremiah presents a well-rounded understanding of what happens in salvation. Mark simply harps on water baptism and its importance.
In Ephesians 4 Paul makes it clear that in our age there is but one baptism. Unless the Holy Spirit baptism that he received in Acts 9 is just chopped liver there is no longer need to be dunked in water. Sorry folks, we truly are saved by grace, not by works so that no one can boost
In Galatians 3:26-27 Paul wrote, “for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” At what point does Paul indicate that one is “in Christ” and “put[s] on Christ?” When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
does not after water,
explain the thief on the cross and
Acts 10:47
“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.
@donhaddix3770 The request made by "the thief on the cross" and Jesus answer came before the death of Jesus and before Jesus' New Testament took effect. Hence, the thief was not required to be baptized in the name of the Lord to be saved. How could one be "buried with Him (Jesus, hh ) by baptism into death" before Jesus died? (Romans 6:4). Baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins would be preached beginning on Pentecost after the death and resurrection of Jesus (Acts 2:38).
@donhaddix3770 The fact of the matter is that Cornelius was to come to have the salvation in the Christ as a consequence of the words which Peter would speak to him (Acts 11:14). At the time the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius these words had not been spoken. Later, Peter commanded Cornelius and his household “to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 10:48 NAS). This baptism, in the name of Christ, was for remission of sins (Acts 2:38) and that he might be added to the Lord’s church (Acts 2:47). It is crystal clear that the baptism of the Holy Spirit on Cornelius, in Acts 10, had nothing to do with salvation from alien sins!
@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM IS IN WATER
1 Peter 3:20-21
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Mark 1:9-10
(9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
(10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Acts 8:38-39
(38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
(39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
@@donhaddix3770 hey Don. Those are good questions. I'm a part of the independent Christian Churches rather than the Churches of Christ. We also believe that baptism is the normative and ordinary way that God graces us with regeneration but we are often more willing to admit that God is free to make exceptions if He chooses to. Many of us think that Acts 10 with Cornelius and company is God making an exception because the apostles were still having trouble recognizing the inclusion of gentiles in the church and He needed to show them definitively that the gentiles had been grafted into the people of God. I do think the previous commenter gave an insufficient answer for the criminal on the cross because Jesus did indeed die before he did. I would make the argument from the book of Hebrews that Jesus brought his blood to the altar in heaven and either at that point or at Pentecost (maybe they're the same thing) The New covenant goes into effect.
It's like saying Jesus was not enough.....so sad......Jesus was enough 🙏
That’s not what they are saying. Your camp uses a prayer to ask Jesus to cleanse. The Bible no where states to do this it states clearly baptism is the function for that. If baptism is a work so is the sinners prayer. Second of all no one held your view till the 1500’s or preached that baptism wasn’t salvific. NO ONE. Logic dismantles evangelical theology on its own.
Secondly if you believe that people who view baptism as salvific are dmned that means by default. No one was saved for the first 1500 years of Christianity….. which with all due respect should sound ridiculous to anyone w a level head who critically thinks
@@unknown-zy6dp Well, according to the COC no one for 1500 years was saved anyway because the church died in the 4th century and didn't return until Alexander Campbell magically restored. So, according to your own theology, people were damned for 15000 years. Pot calling the kettle black. And the entire church for 2000 years has believed in salvation by faith without baptism. Baptism for salvation has always been the aberration and very few people in history have ever taught it. Physician, heal thyself. You do not understand church history or Christian theology. Peace.
I will never accuse the COC of thinking critically. I've never met a single member who can.
And yet you want to disobey him and continue in your sins. Wow
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
Jeremiah and clapping seals do not understand Biblical Theology. He slanders the church of Christ. The Bible never calls Baptism a work of merit. He superimposed a Reformation debate over the scripture. He argues that obedience to Christ somehow puts one against God’s will. He is a hypocritical false teacher and not a “good guy”!
I tried to reason with Jeremiah that, technically, mental effort/activity could also be considered ergon/work (says Merriam-Webster), so the one that believes is not exempt from his line of reasoning. Belief is commanded by our Lord and requires a decision of will. Ironically, if we take his argument to its fatal conclusion, then the person that actually "works" the least (if this is our litmus test) is the unbeliever. Go figure. 😃
@@scottvk4129 Scott, it is beyond reason why they think that doing what the Lord says is what Paul is teaching against. He is referring to people that were requiring people to accept Jewish rituals rather than to accept Christ and The new identity in Christ. I was studying Rom 10 Wednesday and Paul continues what he was talking about in Rom 3-4. You cannot be saved by ignoring and disobeying the Lord, Period. Jesus said, “why call me Lord, and do not the things I say.” Yes, we are saved by trusting in Jesus but that does not exclude responding to what he says. That is actually evil. The devil has done a real job on people,making them think they are being faithful to God by disobeying God. I think if you read Beasley-Murray, you will see how extreme Jeremiah has become, just to be consistent with Calvin. Jesus is the one we should follow. He likes to claim we are depending on our works. Nothing could be further from the truth.. It is always Christ. That is why baptism is so connected to Christ (Rom 6:1-6). It is a Christ event in which we enter into the mystery of Christ.(Gal 3:27). “Baptism and the Mystery of Christ,” Will be my sermon next week.
How can there be any ambiguity.
Baptism saves you now.
Same cannon way different Doctrines.
No final authority.
Please identify the slander.
@@scottvk4129 the argument that mental effort/ activity can be considered work is secular humanist philosophy.
Faith comes by HEARING (Rom 10:17)
Hearing is an action!
Therefore FAITH comes by an action (a work) of a man.
So, one must act to HEAR, then act to BELIEVE, then act to REPENT, act to CONFESS, act to be IMMERSED and act to CALL upon the name of the Lord. These are not Works of Righteousness earning salvation, they are responses of mankind to the Gospel, as, too, are any actions following the washing of regeneration.
One other point, on definitions...at the point where one is justified...one is immediately sanctified and regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit by faith in the promise of forgiveness of sins.
At one precious moment in time we are at once made perfect (sanctified, regenerated, made new, justified and forgiven) by the sacrifice of Christ.
There was no church before Acts 2:41, therefore the outpouring of the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles (and upon Cornelius' household) prior to regeneration. This is true, also, of Saul on the road to Damascus.
Therefore, God (the Holy Spirit) can appear to sinners prior to their regeneration.
Paul's message, in Romans, is that men are not saved by works of the Law of Moses because Moses has been fulfilled in Christ.
In Christ is our Salvation, but we must RECEIVE (action) the Gift in order to benefit from Him, learn from Him and grow in Him.
(Rom 10:14-21) The acts of man leading to the Faith (hearing, belief, repentance, immersion), and his acts following baptism are not works, but responses to the Holy Spirit's callings...from without, prior to immersion, then from within at immersion.
We begin our sanctified ministry, as did our Master begin His, at immersion.
If immersion in water was not vital, then why does our Lord submit to it at the very beginning?
John 1:1 - 4:25.
Jesus is the Word, the Son of God made flesh.
John prepares the Way, immersing.
Jesus is immersed in water and John saw the Holy Spirit descend and remain on Him.
Jesus is now called the Lamb of God.
Jesus begins making disciples and showing signs at Cana (turns water into wine) and overturns tables in the Temple. (1:1 - 2:25)
This is followed by Jesus teaching Nicodemus about being born of "water and Spirit" (3:1-21)
This is followed by more immersion teaching (3:21-4:3)
This is followed by the Living Water discourse (4:1-16).
John spends the first four chapters, of his gospel, devoted mainly to the stories of Christ's relationship to water. Therefore, water is really important, mainly because Christ transforms a simple, common element, water into something better.
THAT'S what happens to us at baptism...we are transformed from common water into His wine.
Ooh boy, you're really going to ruffle feathers if you say any human activity is involved in faith. You can speak salvation prayers and confess publicly but it's crossing a line to allow yourself to be baptized, that's "works based salvation" all of a sudden!
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word.
If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism. John 7:37-39 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou It is sad. I agree. "The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever." Ps 119:116. This also applies, in my mind, to the New Covenant, the Kingdom Covenant. One cannot be, by birth, born into the New Covenant, as Jesus explains to Nicodemus. It's a New Covenant requiring a new birth..."of water and Spirit." Just as our example, Jesus, entered His ministry at His baptism, so too, we enter our new life, at water baptism. (Rom 6:4 reads, "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." It is at our immersion in water where we receive both forgiveness and the Spirit (Acts 2:38) And, as Peter, years after his first sermon in Acts, so clearly said, "Baptism...now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." There is not one example, under the New Covenant, where salvation precedes repentance and baptism. Not one. Peace. "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree." (1 John 5:7-8)
Water baptism was...into the death of Christ, when His blood was shed!
Paul, nor any of the other Apostles were sent to perform all the baptizing! Carnal men were bragging over..."WHO"...had baptized them!
Yes! Rom 6:3-4!
No no, you have to rip apart the context to defend a doctrine built by men. So 1 Corinthians 1 is firmly kicking baptism out, doesn't matter what Jesus said, what Romans 6 says, what Colossians 2:12 says, what Galatians 3:27 says, 1 Peter 3:21 says, all the scriptures that talk obedience says, we'll have none of that!
You obviously do not understand Greek or my Spanish Bible of Acts 2: 38!
No where does the Bible call baptism a ceremony....
You do greatly...err...!
1st. Thess. Chapter 1 says....the WORK of FAITH....
Get it?
It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word.
If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism. John 7:37-39 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We are commanded to “rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15).” However, hardly anyone does so.
Thankfully, those that do “rightly divide the word of truth” are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when they believe the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).
I had a blast fellas! Thank you Mike and Jake for coming out to Twelve 5 Church :)
Likewise! We got rid of the “annoying red bubbly background” in our edit🤣jk I got several comments about how good the production was. I may message you for some tech recommendations. - Jake
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist sure thing!
I may not agree with you, but you were better prepared, in my opinion, that Mike. Mike allowed you to control the narrative and just wasn't...anyway
@@invokethought3883 well at the end of the day I think Mike is by far the best representative that I've met of CoC theology, and he taught me a number of things and challenged me on a number of things. Regardless of how ppl perceive the debate, we all will one day stand before our Creator. SDG Rom 11:36
@@invokethought3883why is it important to control the proposition?It’s the Truth that matters. Thank You Mike for the Truth about Baptism being necessary for Salvation. Without it, you WILL die outside of Christ!
Acts 2: 38 in my Spanish Bible reads..."para remision de sus pecados", which can only translate as, "inorder to have remission" of your sins! The Greek word "eis" means the exact same thing!
(1st. Thess. chapter 1) says, "the WORK OF FAITH"!
I hope this helps....
Romans 16: 16
Dont forget to greet one another with a holy kiss lol #Romans1616
In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
Jeremiah knocked it out the park! Thank you Jeremiah 😊
aw thanks :)
I have been listening to, watching, or attending these debates between various Baptist sects and various Campbellite sects for many, many, many decades (yes, I’m very old). A couple things really strike me about these debates: 1) the Campbellites are very good at these debates. Their pastors and apologists are specifically trained in how to debate generally, and how to debate baptists in particular. And they are very good at these formal debates against Baptist pastors who think they can come into these settings, quote a couple verses, accuse the Campbellites of being works-salvationists, and basically treat the entire thing like a 3-point sermon in their own church. I’ve never seen a baptist do very well in these formal debates. 2) I’ve noticed that the Campbellites treat this as entertainment. They’ve watched or attended so many of these things that they can almost quote both sides verbatim before it even starts. I’ve been to three of these formal debates … all of them probably before most of your parents (and probably even your grandparents) were born. I notice that in each case, the baptists tend to sit on the opposite side of the room from the Campbellites, with almost no mixing of the two groups. But what is most noticeable is the fact that you rarely see one of the Campbellites in the audience bring an actual Bible to the debate. On the other hand, the baptist side of the audience is full of Bibles, and every time someone quotes a verse you can hear the sound of all the baptist Bibles rustling as they turn to the passage, while there is utter silence on the Campbellite side. I always thought that was funny. 3) I think it’s interesting to note that the general baptist approach to baptism was developed centuries ago in their debates with the RCC, the Lutherans, and the Anglicans, who quoted the exact same verses as the Campbellites, but in order to prove infant baptism. Most baptist reasoning on this topic developed in order to distinguish themselves from the baby baptizers. Their idea that baptism is only a symbol of a spiritual reality was developed primarily to argue against the idea that infant baptism forgives sin (mainly original sin inherited from Adam). I recently watched a Jordan B. Cooper video where he quoted Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Colossians 2:11-12, and 1 Peter 3:20-21 to justify infant baptism. Most baptist arguments against these verses were originally designed to be used against the RCC, the Lutherans, and the Anglicans. Of course, it wasn’t until the 1820s-1840s when the Stone-Campbell Restoration movement really started picking up steam that the baptists had to start pivoting on this topic to dealing with fellow credobaptists. I’ve always found it interesting that Alexander Campbell started off as a baby-baptizing Presbyterian, moved to various baptist associations, and eventually started his own movement. I know the Campbellites claim that their movement goes all the way back to the Apostolic era, but we all know that it really just goes back to the early 1800s. And 4) I never cease to be amazed at the Christian communities’ desire to argue, fuss, and fight over fairly meaningless points of doctrine. Two groups, both of which insist on immersing new believers, will argue until they are blue in the face over baptism. Baptists insist on arguing over this mythical new convert who either can’t or won’t get baptized. And the Campbellites insist that even if a new convert is dunked in Jesus’ name, it doesn’t really count unless they’re the ones doing the dunking. Practically, there really isn’t a hair’s breath difference between the two sides, but they’ve been arguing over the minutiae of baptism for around 200 years. That’s Christianity for ya.
Debates generally go in favor of the one who teaches the truth. You reckon? Given that both speakers know their subject and are both likewise mentally endowed.
@@montyeason3973Not at all. The Bible doesn’t really answer the question, so there is no ‘truth’ to win the debate. It’s just how you put together verses that don’t even really have anything to do with the topic.
@@toddstevens9667 That's pretty absurd.m Man has a sin problem. I hope you would agree with that. BUt God in his goodness desires to forgive us and make us part of his eternal family. It's normal for people that hear about his proposition to us , the death, burial, and resurrection of his son) to want to know what to do(how to take advantage of the mercy he extends) at least 3 places in Acts men asked what must I do to be saved? And the same answer is always given, as in many other places where the subject is talked about but the specific question is not asked but assumed the reader(CHristians) have an understanding of it . GOd's word is truth. Anything that contradicts the truth of his word is a lie whether said in ignorance or maliciously. I don't claim to know everything about the Bible, but the way a person receives salvation from thier sins and can be at peace with God is not some wierd mystery. That's not to say that well meaning people can't see things differently especially if what they have been taught and have always believed is wrong. If your mom and dad told you 2+2 = 5 all your life and someone comes along and says, I'm sorry to tell you that 2+2 = 4 chances are you would think them strange, crazy, a liar, or being factious for upsetting your appplecart. Iseriously doubt you would thank me for pointing out the truth to you. People are funny that way.
@@montyeason3973I didn’t say it was a mystery. I know exactly how to be saved. I’ve been saved since December 7, 1941. But that doesn’t mean that this question is answered in the NT. There are verses on both sides of this debate. But nowhere does the NT actually address this question specifically. Nowhere do you see that exact question and a definitive answer in an Epistle.
@@toddstevens9667 They both can learn a few things from the other.
Am I wrong or does the Bible not teach you must hear, confess, repent and be baptized for the remissions of your sin?
I am finally watching the entire video and I want to give extreme kudos to Mark on one thing. He mentions that the Holy Spirit HIMSELF regenerates us. This point is rarely mentioned by the Churches of Christ in any discussion of any kind, and never in a discussion of water baptism. Many thanks to Mark for acknowledging the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation. I was thrilled to hear it.
This is a major teaching in churches of Christ and is normally called baptism of the Holy Spirit. I know many in this forum do not understand this, but scripture is clear, creeds come and go. (1 Cor 6:11; Acts 2:38, 5:32).
@@darrellclark2248 I'm not sure how to put this. If you are referring to regeneration, where the Holy Spirit comes to indwell and give our dead spirit life, that has never been called the baptism of the Holy Spirit by any group in history. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, even in the COC, believes it is the coming in power of the Holy Spirit on a person. Churches of Christ are strict cessationists. They believe the Baptism of the Holy Spirit only happened to the apostles and those they laid hands on. COC openly and adamantly denies that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available today.
I think you got your terms confused. Regeneration and Holy Spirit baptism are not the same thing, not even in the COC.
As far as it being a major teaching in the COC, it rarely gets mentioned, never gets explained, and the COC are STRICT secularists. By secularists, I mean they don't believe in ANY supernatural work of God in the world today. They have always been ultimate humanists, where everything is up to man, and God does nothing. They do pay lip service to the indwelling, but it is almost an embarrassment to them to say that much. It's not a major teaching by any stretch.
Peace
@@HeLivesForever25 I’m sorry, regeneration by the Spirit Is very common. You deal with passé teaching and usually products from very sectarian schools of Preaching. The teaching that baptism in the Spirit is regeneration is very common in churches of Christ and in many Protestant groups. Baptism in the Spirit is about regeneration, rather than giving sign gifts. I’m not confused, I graduated and attended 3 of their colleges and seminaries. I have a clear picture.
I'm sorry, but your theological terms are wrong. No group in history has EVER referred to regeneration as the baptism in the Spirit. No one has. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is exclusively referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
If you were taught differently in seminary and bible college, all of your teachers were extremely ignorant of the term and its use in church history.
I personally think you're just confusing your terms. I can promise you this much: every Reformed, Baptist, Roman Catholic, Pentecostal, and Charismatic will UTTERLY disagree with you.
@@darrellclark2248 I wanted to clarify something. REGENERATION by the Spirit is a part of COC theology. Absolutely. You won't hear a sermon on it once in 20 years, but yes, it is part of COC doctrine. HOWEVER, it has never been called BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit by any group in history, including the COC.
So, I am not disputing that COC believes in regeneration by the Spirit. I am disputing the claim that they call it BAPTISM in the Spirit. No one on earth has ever called regeneration that.
Jeremiah’s whole argument falls apart when we realize one *very simple* fact:
We can’t baptize ourselves.
The scripture always says *be baptized.*
That doesn’t at all sound like a work to me because - when we are being baptized - we’re simply allowing God to work in us.
It's the work done by other people on you
@@josephdoctor6423 yet it’s not *your work* is it?
@oldbluelight8912 not unless they carry me to the pool lol
OHHHH NOO!!! IT BURNS lol
@@TheApologeticDog Interesting rebuttal. Not surprising, though.
In Hebrews 5, it says that Jesus Christ became the source of eternal life to all those who OBEY him!
yup obey in faith apart from works that justifies a person before God :)
@@TheApologeticDogand yet Jesus says you must believe and be baptized to be saved Mark 16:16. You must not have the faith he spoken about. You don’t even believe his own words. So your faith must be dead faith
@@lynncantrell2782 well not even Mike Hisaw believes that Mark 16:16 is inspired lol
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God. .
Mike is the one who focused on defining terms by his continual references to BDAG. Jeremiah seemed to simply pull his definitions out of thin air from his systematic. I just find that ironic since Jeremiah continually criticized Mike throughout the debate for not defining terms, even though, in my view, Mike took great pains to do so. Just my two cents.
I would say your opinion is worth about 3 cents :D
The dog is showing his fangs a little bit🤣
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist those K9's doe! lol
Water Baptism Versus Spirit Baptism
Water baptism is baptism by men with water and was done under the gospel of the kingdom. Spirit baptism is baptism by the Holy Spirit, and is only for the gospel of the grace of God.
Water Baptism
John's Baptism - Confession of Sins
In the New Testament, water baptism is the first type of baptism mentioned. We see John the Baptist preaching the baptism for the “remission of sins,” in Mark 1:4. We see John the Baptist baptizing his fellow Jews with water while they were “confessing their sins” (Matthew 3:6, Mark 1:5). We clearly see that John’s water baptism was accompanied by the confession of sins.
Water Baptism
Pentecost Baptism - Remission of Sins
On Pentecost we see where water baptism is also conducted, and this water baptism is for the “remission of sins.” This water baptism covered repentance, and being baptized the name of Jesus Christ. These that were water baptized would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, as seen in Acts 2:38.
In Acts 3:19 we see the first recorded sermon by Peter since his sermon on Pentecost. In this sermon we see that Peter says to repent and be converted (turn from sin). In this verse we also see that their sins would not be blotted until the times of refreshing comes from the presence of the Lord. What this means is that their sins would not be blotted out until Jesus Christ returns to earth and establishes His new covenant during the Millennial Kingdom (Hebrews 10:16-18).
Hebrews 10:16-18
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
As we see in Hebrews 10:18 that there was not to be any more animal sacrifices after the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. However, these sacrifices were not stopped until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Roman armies in A.D. 70.
Spirit Baptism
Baptism Into The Body of Christ
In the New Testament the second type of baptism mentioned is baptism by the Holy Spirit. This baptism is not done by men, but done by the Holy Spirit. This is the baptism of the gospel of the grace of God. Those saved under the gospel of the grace of God are not water baptized, for we have no sins to be “remitted.” Our sins were forgiven on the cross 2000 years ago.
Paul tells us in Romans 4:15 and Romans 5:13 that sins are not imputed where there is no law.
In the verses below we will see that the baptism that Paul refers to is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I Corinthians 1:17 - “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”
In the verse above we see that Paul was not sent to water baptize, but to preach the gospel of the grace of God. Paul’s main focus is on the cross.
Ephesians 4:5 - “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.”
In the verse above, Paul tells us that there is one baptism, and the baptism that Paul refers to is the baptism by the Holy Spirit of “body of Christ” believers of the gospel of the grace of God.
In Galatians 3:27, Paul tells us that those that have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:27 - “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
In Romans 6:3-5 we see where Paul identifies us with Christ’s death, burial and resurrection when we are spiritually baptized into the “body of Christ.” God’s Holy Spirit immediately baptizes us into the body of Christ after we believe the gospel of the grace of God.
Romans 6:3-5
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
Colossians 2:12 - “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
In the above verse, we see that Paul says that we are baptized (buried with Christ in baptism) by the Holy Spirit by our faith in the resurrection of Christ from the dead.
I Corinthians 12:13 - “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
In the above verse Paul tells us that we are baptized into one body. This “one body” that Paul speaks of is the “body of Christ.” In Ephesians 1:13-14 we see that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe the gospel of the grace of God.
Ephesians 1:13-14 - “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 - “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Water Baptism Summary
We see that the baptism of John the Baptist was water baptism accompanied by confession of sins.
We see that the water baptism at Pentecost was for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) that would not be blotted out (Acts 3:19) until Jesus Christ returns to earth (Hebrews 10:16-18).
Water baptism at Pentecost was conducted AFTER BELIEF that they had crucified the Son of God, which was their messiah, redeemer and king.
Water baptism did not forgive sins; the shed blood of Jesus Christ puts their sins in remission until they are blotted out.
Water baptism was the baptism of the gospel of the kingdom.
If the police came to your house and said open up in the name of the law, it ain’t just talking about policeman it means everybody. Whole police force the county the state!
Matt 28 baptized name of the father son and Holy Ghost.
Means all authority
John 17:10
The command was certainly based upon Jesus’ authority (Mt 28:18).
Did not God through Moses lead the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage..
Oh...so really when God split the red Sea, they could tell God, because we met your conditions, we help with our justification????
The teaching that baptism into Christ is not essential to salvation is only as old as the 16th century. Obscure heretical groups such as the Cainite Gnostics, mentioned by Tertullian in his treatise, "On Baptism," and other offshoot groups are the only exceptions. The most complete and detailed biblical reference is probably that of the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8:34-39, where water baptism into Christ was included in Philip's preaching of Jesus. It is clear from the description that Philip made baptism mandatory in his teaching, or how else could this eunuch have ever before heard of this practice? This was a new experience for him based on the text, and his response was that of rejoicing following his compliance.
Odd historical claim. None of the early church fathers, none of the apostles, and precious few people even today teach baptism is essential. Requiring water baptism for salvation is the historical aberration. Salvation by faith alone is the historical standard for 2000 years.
Incorrect. I would guess that you believe that the earth is flat also? Your number one enemy in this response? Google. Anyone can easily prove your response wrong, and there is nothing that you can do to change it.
@@larrymcclain8874 No, the earth is round. I don't know what "Your number one enemy in this response?" means. We disagree on history. Fairly normal.
@@larrymcclain8874 Still wondering what "Your number one enemy in this response?" means
@cigarlovers999 You don't get it, huh? Google? Your comments with that great resource can be easily disproven by anyone. That's your enemy. The history of Christian baptism from the beginning until now is well documented. You are easily disproven.
Did the tax collector Confess with his mouth that God raise Jesus from the dead???????
No cause he under old law
Tell the truth MIKE!!!
He did! Good job Mike!
@@mikeivey7167thank you for your encouragement!
Exactly what Mike is doing right then
When Protestants define "works" as "something you do" they are not tracking with Paul or Jesus.
Unfortunately, some believe that all mentions of works in the NT mean any physical activity of man instead of understanding the context of Romans 4 and Ephesians 2 is actually referring to works of law, and this is super important, works of the Law of Moses AND works of Gentile law. It's meant to stand in contrast to the works of the Law of the Spirit in Christ.
@@Concatenate they are reading a 16th century debate into Paul's discussion in Romans! it will not work.
Works = something you do....that's definition. Your claim is incoherent.
@@Concatenate The law of the Spirit of Christ refers to the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in the person. The law of Christ, meaning a set of rules in the New Testament, is a COC myth. That law doesn't exist. The only LAW in the entire bible is the law of Moses.
@@darrellclark2248 Contrast the 16th century debate with the secular humanist worldview in the COC and it makes for an interesting discussion.
The "Church ", isn't the building where people congregate to worship who or what they like, it is the New Creation of God, made up of believers in the sacrificial death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, from all over the world, no matter their background. They're daily infilled with and led by the Holy Spirit, kept in His fold until He returns to redeem His purchased possession, as promised, and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father.
The Holy Spirit has left these buildings, thus they can do as they please. They didn't say they wanted to be saved or seek eternal life with Christ Jesus in God, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, so, let them be.
Nebuchadnezzar and the Romans could only enter the temple to destroy it only after the presence and glory of GOD left Ezekiel chapters 8-11; Matthew 24:1. The restraining power had left! This power instantly killed even the high priest who came with the tiniest of sin, how much more the heathen or unbelievers.
The end justifies the means.
They're doing what feels best for them, knowing that this world is programmed to fail- everything is geared toward vanity. Esau had his bowl of porridge, he lived to regret it.
Most of these preachers already got fat from the offerings and tithes of gullible, unsuspecting congregants, and they're blinded by the five senses, which only ends in death and destruction. Life only comes in abiding in Christ Jesus till the end. John 8:21; Matthew 24:13.
They're feeling good, so let them enjoy their fleeting time.
They didn’t know the Way, the Truth and the Life, but they're putting together their own truth, to sell to those who would buy it.
The five foolish virgins are already lining up to "buy" oil for their dead lamp, because they didn't bring enough. Both they and the sellers will be outside of the shut gate...but, there's still time this day, for any of them who would turn back to the fold. If they can bear to leave their temporal comfort zones, and seek for the eternal. 1 John 2:19; Hebrews chapters 6 and 10.
No excuses on that day!
The proposition had been erroneously framed. Whether immersion or pouring on, the water to be used in the Christian baptism inhers with the Holy Spirit(Mt. 3:11; Mk 1:8; Lk3:16; Jn 1:33) and the Word(Ep 5:26) as well as called on in the name of the Holy Trinity(Mt 28: 19). Christian baptism or spiritual birth should rephrase the statement.
so you didnt like what the affirmative was defending? :)
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God....
These gentleman can't quite grasp it.
We are not saying that we can get any credit for our justification in our being immersed.
We are saying that God justifies us according to his grace by faith, in the occasion of baptism into union with his son Jesus.
It's what God is doing when we are led by faith in adherence to his instructions.
If God provided justification and directed you to his justification, and you go where God directs you to recieve it, how can you say that by you going, you earned or merited it? You can't. What you guys are interpreting out of this is that, if you had to go to wherr God told you to go to recieve what only God could provide, then that would imply that one could revieve credit for their being justified.. false .
That's like saying: theose who walked around the walls of Jericho are ro credit because they did what God told them to do..we k ow that's not true.
God caused them to fall, and it was after they met God's conditions
Just as God saves us after we meet hid conditions
This happens according to God's grace and own doing.
What takes place in baptism is an operation of God, not us doing a thing to add to what God is doing..
The antagonist Jeremiah, did not have a grasp of Biblical or Historical Theology. His exegesis was very questionable. He fumbled all over BDAG and butchered Acts 2:38 in unrecognizable ways. No recognizable translation would translate it the way he did. He did not understand Justification by Faith or Baptism. He was focused on the use of ceremony. Even though salvation is by faith, but God used baptism as a medium of his grace. Churches of Christ are not Sacramental Baptist but Credo-Baptist. We believe in believers baptism. Paul or Luke never called baptism a work of merit. The antagonist constantly tried to twist this! He tried to force Romans 3:1-31, as well as Rom 4 into a 16 century faith vs. works contrast and does not actually deal with Paul's audience and his issues he had with them. This was his fundamental problem.
The Churches of Christ do not believe in "believers baptism". The phrase was around hundreds of years before the COC was invented by Alexander Campbell. Believers baptism refers to someone who is already a Christian being baptized to express one's faith, not receive God's grace.
@@HeLivesForever25 Once again, you show your ignorance of basic words. Believer’s baptism is contrasted to paedobaptist -baby baptizer. Credo-baptizers-People that require biblical faith to be baptized. Once again, you make up definitions, because you lack basic theological training/ or just understanding of what words mean.
@@HeLivesForever25really? So Alexander Campbell started his work in 33:AD?
Roman 16:16. Alexander Campbell was a Baptist/ Calvin. He only restored the church back to what the church was in 33Ad. And you are a very mean spirited person for calling the church that Christ built a campellite
. Baptism was instituted because the children of Israel, despite the fact that they went through the Red sea, and then threatened God that they would return to Egypt, and made good their threats in Numbers 14:4 and Jeremiah 42:1, 43:4,7, and Johanan was in charge. So, God brought back Elijah - who was supposed to bring them back to God - but dropped the ball and now had to complete it through John the Baptist. He came baptizing to bring Israel back from Egypt- so to speak (Jesus as the Son, had to be taken back to Egypt and was brought back to the promised land). Thus by deciding to get baptized, they're showing to God that they repented of their decision, and now accept the One they sent to be their Messiah and King, as the Son of Man (David), and the Son of God, who will then fulfill God's will to Israel Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9(written only to the Jews).
Acts 10, and 19:6; 11: 6, God sent His Holy Spirit directly to Cornelius and his family, despite the fact that they hadn't been baptized, but, He didn't tell Peter to go baptize them, (as He wasn't instructed to go replace the 12th desciple, which he did through divination).
Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:26-38, because they're considered to be part of Israel, (and God was rewarding the good deed of Ebed-Meleck in keeping Jeremiah alive- Jeremiah 38:6-13; 39:15-18; Isaiah 56:3, just like He rewarded Phinehas Numbers 25).
Jesus came to baptize with the Holy Spirit.
The fire baptism would be for those who do not receive His free gift of salvation, through the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom- for Israel, and the gospel of grace- for both Jews and Gentiles, who believe in God, and are saved by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
(By going back to Egypt, Israel nullified the whole purpose of passover, and crossing the Red sea and Jordan, thus they were given the law whereby every sin must be personally atoned for through the institution of the Priesthood, who brought the blood of the sacrificial animals before God. This became moot, as they did as they pleased, bringing sick polluted sacrifices. God stopped honoring them until Jesus came, went back to Egypt, came out, and fulfilled God's word, " out of Egypt have I called my Son." So, whosoever believes in Him is baptized into Him, by tge Holy Spirit, and took on the adoption of sons John 1:12-14, ushering in "the acceptable year of the Lord " or the preparation of the body of Christ- the Church, made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 3; Ephesians chapters 1-4. So, all believers need to do is simply abide in Him by grace, through faith in His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection from the dead, until the redemption of His purchased possession!
Very good debate. Both speakers were very good in what they said.
thank you! I had a great time getting to know Mike, and I thought he did a fantastic job!
@@TheApologeticDog You and Mike showed class in this debate.
Alexander Campbell had great respect for the Baptist Church. He preached in the First Baptist Church in 1857. This was in Washington City. The president of the US was there to hear him preach.
@@JamesMoss-g5o No man made "church" or doctrine should be respected (to hold something in high esteem). If Campbell "respected" the Baptists he was wrong. This doesn't mean anyone should behave poorly towards anyone, but the scriptures are pretty clear about adhering to truth.
@@Concatenate Of course AC respected the Baptist Church and the Methodist Church. He preached in the Methodist Church after his debate with Purcell. 2000 people were there to hear him speak. He thought there were Christians in all the sects.
Excellent debate! I was looking forward to this for weeks 😆
Glad you enjoyed it!! We’ll be posting more content about the debate soon.
Also: Jeremiah, anyone can refer to themselves in the 3rd Person to avoid saying “I”.
Saying “this retched man” instead of “I” proves nothing.
In the Pharisee/Tax Payer Parable the Pharisee could have said “This man” or “This Pharisee” has done this or that instead of “I”…but it still means the same thing.
So, just because you referred to yourself in the 3rd person doesn’t mean you didn’t say “I”. It all means the same thing: just sounds different.
Jeremiah is a powerhouse speaker, flooding the discussion with definition, context, Jewish thinking, and excellent arguments. In my view, he tore Mark's arguments to shreds. The winner is in the eye of the beholder.
Thank you for watching the debate and for your encouraging words!
I think Jeremiah bumbled around and refused to agree with all Greek scholars that in acts 2:38, baptism is tied to forgiveness of sins
@@bm-outdoors you may want to go back and listen to my opening statement :)
@@TheApologeticDog the Bible never says that baptism is an “act of faith.” I would say that the Bible is clear that in submitting to being baptized God is doing a renewing work in me based on my faith/trust in Christ. And that work He is doing is justifying me according to the atonement that Christ offered. I did nothing to deserve what Christ did, so God is graciously giving it to me because of my expressed faith and my willingness to trust in Jesus.
If I’m in the crowd that day that Peter was preaching to and I was confused, I would have asked Peter, “please excuse me, but is it repentance or baptism that is for the remission of my sins?” Yet, it’s not recorded that one individual appeared confused about the command. Peter didn’t seem too concerned about making a distinction either. He could have chosen to word it differently. He could have said “repent for the remission of your sins and also be baptized as a sign of your faith.”
Maybe I’m just too simple, I just read it at face value. And for the millions of people throughout the centuries who have read this passage without the benefit of knowing the Greek language or having a book for interpreting Greek language, it seems they would read it just as it’s written.
It's like, wait a minute, so ALL of us need to repent... AND (conjoining conjunction?)... EACH of us is to allow ourselves to be baptized... so that MUST mean baptism has nothing to do with remission of sins. Got it! Lol, how do people allow themselves to get it that twisted?
@@Concatenate Context solves a lot of this. Sadly, context is considered heresy in the COC. Ripping one phrase out of a verse and standing your ground is guaranteed heresy, but that's the favorite COC play.
I know how you got yourselves that twisted, and I pity you for it.
@@HeLivesForever25don’t call us church of Christ. We are not the church of Christ, we belong to the church of Christ. Big difference
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God..
That was why Jesus Christ sent His Holy Spirit, to enable Believers in Him live in this "sinful life ". Jesus Christ already dealt with sin by His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection from the dead.
Only those who reject this worry about "sin", and end up living under the scrutiny of the law. That's not why He shed His blood.
Receive His work of salvation of your soul, and ask for daily infilling and leading of His Holy Spirit, so you can live life and that more abundantly until He returns as promised, to redeem His purchased possession.
John 14:26; Romans 8:9,14; Acts 1:5,8; Luke 11:13.
No Holy Spirit, no Christ, no God!
Wow, this was a good one. However, much was left on the table in terms of the inconsistencies that Jeremiah with circular reasoning left unanswered or unhandled, resulting in condescension and proof texting his calvinist theology. Congrats to Mike for his humility in putting up with the entrapment questions.
We address a lot of that in our debate review!! Check it out here😁 ua-cam.com/video/vQ4ScKF1yX0/v-deo.htmlsi=Pttmp7m9tBLE4CQ_
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God.
He believes God is going to save people that tell God that they will not follow him in his will. Jesus said if you don't put him first, you cannot be my disciple. He twist Mikes words often in a very dishonest way. Everything he says about baptism can be said about repentance and confession. He talks about context but I can't see where he actually uses context to interpret the text. Much of the confusion in Paul and James is to understand that James uses justification in the sense of vindication (Matt 12:37). The word is determined by context. James was not saying you are justified (in Paul's sense) by visiting the elderly and taking care of the fatherless. it would not make any sense.
Israel was baptized unto Moses, by crossing the Red sea 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.
Believers are baptized into Christ, by the Holy Spirit, through the faith of the Believer in Christ. Galatians 3:24-29; Romans 6:2-10; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, all are talking about baptism by faith, not water.
Whosoever puts their faith and trust in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, is already circumcised and baptized into Him by the very circumcision and baptism of Jesus Christ.
He already perfected everything that pertains to life and godliness for all Believers until He returns as promised to redeem His purchased possession and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father, in heavenly places!
Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians chapters 1-5; Colossians chapters 1-4 etc.
It is sad that people do not study their Bibles for themselves but listen to what others say. We can always trust God's word.
If we “study” the Bible, we will see that being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:3-5) is defined in John 7:37-39 and it does not mean water baptism.
John 7:37-39
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We are commanded to “rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15).” However, hardly anyone does so.
Thankfully, those that do “rightly divide the word of truth” are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when they believe the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).
@@TheHeavenTestdotnet-gr2ou
. Baptism was instituted because the children of Israel, despite the fact that they went through the Red sea, and then threatened God that they would return to Egypt, and made good their threats in Numbers 14:4 and Jeremiah 42:1, 43:4,7, and Johanan was in charge. So, God brought back Elijah - who was supposed to bring them back to God - but dropped the ball and now had to complete it through John the Baptist. He came baptizing to bring Israel back from Egypt- so to speak (Jesus as the Son, had to be taken back to Egypt and was brought back to the promised land). Thus by deciding to get baptized, they're showing to God that they repented of their decision, and now accept the One they sent to be their Messiah and King, as the Son of Man (David), and the Son of God, who will then fulfill God's will to Israel Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9(written only to the Jews).
Acts 10, and 19:6; 11: 6, God sent His Holy Spirit directly to Cornelius and his family, despite the fact that they hadn't been baptized, but, He didn't tell Peter to go baptize them, (as He wasn't instructed to go replace the 12th desciple, which he did through divination).
Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:26-38, because they're considered to be part of Israel, (and God was rewarding the good deed of Ebed-Meleck in keeping Jeremiah alive- Jeremiah 38:6-13; 39:15-18; Isaiah 56:3, just like He rewarded Phinehas Numbers 25).
Jesus came to baptize with the Holy Spirit.
The fire baptism would be for those who do not receive His free gift of salvation, through the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom- for Israel, and the gospel of grace- for both Jews and Gentiles, who believe in God, and are saved by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
(By going back to Egypt, Israel nullified the whole purpose of passover, and crossing the Red sea and Jordan, thus they were given the law whereby every sin must be personally atoned for through the institution of the Priesthood, who brought the blood of the sacrificial animals before God. This became moot, as they did as they pleased, bringing sick polluted sacrifices. God stopped honoring them until Jesus came, went back to Egypt, came out, and fulfilled God's word, " out of Egypt have I called my Son." So, whosoever believes in Him is baptized into Him, by tge Holy Spirit, and took on the adoption of sons John 1:12-14, ushering in "the acceptable year of the Lord " or the preparation of the body of Christ- the Church, made up of both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 3; Ephesians chapters 1-4. So, all believers need to do is simply abide in Him by grace, through faith in His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection from the dead, until the redemption of His purchased possession!
Mike I really wish you would listen to what James Snapp has to say about Mark 16versus 9-20. I believe he makes a VERY STRONG case for it being in the original manuscripts. Please listen to his reasoning and I sincerely believe you will see. He has challenged James White and others to debate and they will not respond.
I appreciate your recommendation. I argued vociferously for its authenticity for many years.
I’m sorry. I meant Mark chapter 9 through the end of the book.
we have no originals, only copies.
The sum of thy word is truth
Fascinating discussion, gentlemen.
thank you so much, I had a blast with Mike!
Thank you! God bless!
Have You Received The Love Of The Truth?
In II Thessalonians 2:10 our Apostle Paul tells us that those who perish when Jesus Christ comes back to earth will perish because they “received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
In II Thessalonians 1:7-8 Paul tells us that “the Lord Jesus Christ shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The question for each of us is - have we received the love of the truth? If we have received the love of the truth, then we will obey (meaning believe) the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If we have the love of the truth, then we will know God.
The love of the truth is the love of the gospel recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4. Our gospel (good news) is that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. This is truly good news because this means that when God looks upon us he does not see our sins. All of our sins have been forgiven - past, present and future.
God has done everything that is needed for us to experience an eternal life in heaven with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. God tells us so in II Corinthians 5:18-21.
II Corinthians 5:18-21
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
In the verses above, we see that those saved by believing the gospel of the grace of God have been given the Ministry of Reconciliation. Reconciliation means that we have “restored fellowship” with God the Father through God the Son. It is through the death of Jesus Christ that we have the forgiveness of our sins and the restoration of fellowship with God the Father.
We that are saved are to be “ambassadors for Christ,” and share with the entire world that everyone has been reconciled to God the Father through the death of God the Son. We are told that God the Father made Jesus Christ to be sin for us so that we might be made the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was sinless and He hated sin, yet he took upon Himself the sins of the entire world so that our fellowship with God could be restored. We can have eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ when we believe in and accept His sacrifice for us.
Will you receive the love of the truth and believe the gospel of the grace of God, thereby receiving eternal life? Will you then accept your ambassadorship for Christ and the Ministry of Reconciliation by sharing the gospel with your family and friends? By doing so, we can be certain that we have “received the love of the truth.”
Baptism is essential to salvation because it is when one’s sins are forgiven, when one receives the Holy Spirit, when one dies to sin, when one starts a new life, and when one becomes a child of God in Christ. In other words, “Baptism is the time and place that God forgives and saves.” Thus, when it comes to salvation, baptism is not the what but the when. The moment when you receive God’s saving grace is the moment you emerge from the watery tomb of baptism. That is why baptism is essential to salvation. Baptism “completes our response of saving faith,” which “begins with a confessed belief, continues with repentance, and is completed in baptism.”
Water baptism, according to the Bible, is a significant Christian practice that symbolizes the believer’s identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Romans 6:3-4 (NIV) beautifully articulates this, stating, “Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”
In essence, water baptism serves as a public declaration of one’s faith in Jesus Christ, signifying a break with the old way of life and a commitment to walk in the newness of life found in Him. It’s a powerful and symbolic act that signifies a spiritual rebirth and a profound transformation within the believer’s heart.
@@kac0404 because belief water baptism saves is a false gospel
@@donhaddix3770 You stated water baptism serves as a public declaration of one's faith in Jesus Christ. Yet, the scriptures never say this. That doesn't bother you at all? I mean, you quote Romans 6, why not let God's word do the talking and defining of terms and not ADD to God's word?
@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM IS IN WATER
1 Peter 3:20-21
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Mark 1:9-10
(9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
(10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Acts 8:38-39
(38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
(39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Dead in our sins does not mean we are brain dead!
It does mean our spirit is dead.
@@HeLivesForever25 sin just means we are separated from God. Spiritual dead because only Christ makes us alive. That does not mean that an alien sinner cannot hear the gospel and be convicted by the Spirit (Rom 10:17).
@@darrellclark2248 Sin does not MEAN that we are separated from God. Sin is the CAUSE of our separation from God. Our separation from God is our spiritual death. Our spirit is dead prior to conversion.
@@HeLivesForever25 I see that you are doing Satan’s work, redefine sin and make it disappear.
Sin is violating the Law of God. Separation from God results.
@@HeLivesForever25 You are redefining spirit. Separation from God causes death. Christ gives life. Being separated from God does not mean brain dead. We can respond to Christ by the Spirit in the teaching of the gospel (Rom 10:17).
Please may i ask,
Why do people Baptize today? When it doesn't follow the New Testament pattern of Baptism when the Apostle's were commissioned by Jesus to do miracles, speak new tongue's, heal the sick and Baptize? (Mark 16:14-20, Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:5).
The Apostle's we're sent to Baptize with the Holy Ghost (today's One Baptism - Ephesians 4:5, Acts 1:5), Apostle Peter was Authorized to Baptize - for example (Acts 2:38-41, Acts 10:43-44)
And Paul the Last Apostle wasn't sent to Baptize...?
My question remains, they're No Apostle's today (Acts 1:22) since the great commission which happened in Acts, so who are people being Baptized by without the Authority of an Apostle?
Because priests in the Catholic Church have apostolic succession and have authority passed on from Christ to administer the Sacraments. Baptism is the first one. If you read John 14 the prayer Jesus prayed was for his disciples who he commissioned at the Last Supper. When Judas Iscariot betrayed him, the disciples voted to replace him. Peter always had primacy. If you look at Isaiah 22:20-23, Eliakim is made master of the palace in the same way Jesus gives the keys to Peter. It’s through the authority of the Church Christ gives the power to baptize. The Catholic Church recognizes all Christian’s Baptisms done through the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, regardless of whether it was done in a Catholic Church or not. If a person is not sure they were baptized properly (some only baptize in Jesus name, denying the Trinity), then a provisional baptism can be made, but we are only baptized once. It is not done as an outward symbol of what we profess. It is a gift from God, a grace given where we receive the Holy Spirit and the new life in Christ. It only needs to be given once. As stated it is covenant. Any baptized Christian is able to baptize when a soul is in jeopardy of dying. In Catholic baptism there are also prayers of minor exorcism.
@@caryntalty4014 i see, it's a Catholic practice. Thanks
You seem to be conflating being baptized for the remission of sins and reception of the Holy Spirit as an initial act of salvation and the passing on of miraculous gifts by the apostles. I believe Philip's work in Samaria in Acts 8 demonstrates the seperation of the two best. Philip went to Samaria to preach the gospel and as some were turning their lives to Christ he baptized them (Acts 8:12-13). Philip was able to perform miraculous gifts as he had received the ability from the Apostles, but he was not an Apostle so could not himself pass them to others. When Peter and John heard they came and administered the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit as was appropriate.
@@ctctreno Philip was ordained. It is apostolic succession. The 1st Century Church baptized as the initial step, yes. We must be baptized. May God bless you in your search for truth.
@@caryntalty4014 Phillip was a Jewish Evangelist who water baptised Jewish Proselytes and Samaritans in Acts Chapter 8.
Which has Nothing to do with the New Testament pattern of Salvation for Gentiles.
Gentiles did not hear the Gospel until Acts Chapter 10.
Furthermore the Great Commission was a Past tense prophecy which was fulfilled in the book of Acts (Matthews 28:19, Mark 16:15-16, Luke 24:49 >>> Acts of The Apostles)
A New Testament Apostle MUST have been an eyewitness of Jesus's resurrection, ordained and sent out specifically by Jesus himself before he ascended to heaven after his resurrection (Acts 1:22).
Therefore conclusively, With the Exception of Phillip the Evangelist who was led by God Specifically to preach to Jewish Proselytes & the Samaritans in Acts 8 ;
Nobody today has Apostolic Authority to baptize anybody, because the great commission was fulfilled in Acts (Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:5 etc) and Apostle Paul was the Last Apostle (1 Corinthians 15:8) and even he wasn't sent to Baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17) and there's a reason for that.
Any person attempting to execute Baptism on anybody today is a 'False Apostle".
Believers need to contend for the faith Jude 1, by preaching only the gospel 1Corinthians 9:16; Luke 4:18.
Jesus Christ sent His Holy Spirit to teach, not seminaries. Everyone has this opportunity as they study the scriptures to make themselves approved unto GOD and not to man.
Once there's a slight deviation from the foundation, it no longer has God's approval, no matter how spiritual or religious.
The reason this debate could take place was simply because both sides needed to be right.
Neither is right because God doesn't need help to validate His word.
His whole counsel from the foundation of the world has been made known and revealed to those who care to seek for it. Deuteronomy 29:29; Romans 1:25-26; Colossians 1:26-27; Psalm 25:14; Matthew 13:11.
No debates can ever be used to prove the will of God because it already nullifies the immutability and truth on the word.
God's word has been tried and found to be true already Psalm 12:6; and it is already settled in heaven Psalm 119:85, and none of it will ever return to God void Isaiah 55:11-12, for God has magnified His word above all His name Psalm 138:2.
Jesus never left any of His commission unfinished John 19:30.
Therefore no one outside of His fold belongs to Him. John chapters 10-17.
Whosoever would simply seek, believe, accept Him as Lord and Savior and abide in Him, asking for daily infilling and leading of the Holy Spirit, and obediently following His counsel in His revealed world, will never be rejected nor forsaken. John 10:28-30.
He is not responsible for sheep outside His fold. Christ is not divided. 1 Corinthians 1:13-17.
Each denominations believe as they see fit, and attack one another in order to prove that they're the one that is right.
God is not there.
Christ is tarrying waiting for everyone to get their acts together and come out of organized religion into the fold of Believers in His sacrificial work of salvation of their souls , abiding in Him until He returns as promised, to ransom, redeem, and take them up to present them faultless before the presence of God the Father, with exceeding joy.
The sign of the cross was formulated by those who plotted against Jesus Christ and arrested Him. That was the sign between them and those they had bought to shout "crucify Him!", so that Jesus wouldn't simply be stoned or whipped and let go or killed, He had to be crucified on the cursed tree from the beginning.
Let everyone go back to the scriptures and seek out the way for the salvation of their souls. John 5:39, and no longer depend on doctrines of man and his traditions. Matthew 15:3,9.
He is coming soon!
I will have to say this about Mike in this debate. He showed class and what he said was outstanding.
what about the other guy?? :D
@@TheApologeticDog He did the same.
@@JamesMoss-g5o I agree. I think he made some pretty compelling points in his cross-examination
He was good, but the other guy was very lucky that Paul Mays wasn’t the one who debated him. Paul mays is amazing
If you want to know who Paul mays is, he has a UA-cam channel called A Cappella Hymns and more.
He has debated this topic with many false teachers.
@@lynncantrell2782 the most intimidating thing about Paul Mays is his overalls :D
We are forgiven through the blood of Jesus Christ and justified through His resurrection. They are not the same thing nor does the same work of Jesus Christ provide them. Mark makes an excellent and eloquent defense for paganism in his opening speech. Everything he teaches is pure paganism, using scripture to defend it.
WHAT IF WE DIE BELIEVING A FALSE GOSPEL?
The Bible and specifically our Apostle Paul tells us the answer to that question. We find the answer in the gospel of the grace of God recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4.
I Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
Our Apostle Paul tells us that WE ARE SAVED when we believe that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
In II Corinthians 5:21 we are told that God made Christ to be sin for us.
II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This gospel is easy to understand and very straightforward. We only have to believe that the God that spoke this world into existence gave His life for us, He was buried and that He rose on the third day. This seems like a very easy choice. Doesn’t it?
Let's look back to a time where a couple of other people also had a very easy choice to make. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. Let’s say that they lived in the best place on earth. Let’s say that they could live with God forever. Let’s say that they would never get old, sick or die.
We all remember Adam and Eve and the choice that they made. Would they have made the right choice if God had written the instructions that they needed on a piece of paper and they could carry that piece of paper everywhere that they went?
Well, guess what? God has written down the instructions that we need to follow in order to inherit eternal life with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is called the Bible, and we can carry it everywhere we go. If we follow the instructions in the Bible, we can live in the best place imaginable. We can be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ forever and we will never get old, sick or die.
Have you made the decision to believe God and follow His written instructions, so that you will become a child of God forever? God doesn’t make mistakes. When He adopts you as His child, it is a forever adoption. Yet, some of us question God and His promises.
Now you may ask yourself what Satan is up to these days. That is an easy question to answer. Satan is not hanging around in the obvious places where everyone goes to sin. Those places are on autopilot aka auto-Satan.
No, Satan hangs out at the places where people feel safe, and they go to in order to feel closer to God. No, I’m not talking about your “prayer closet” or “on your knees beside your bed” praying to God. No, I’m talking about…
…places where false gospels are preached. These are places where people are fooled by Satan into believing an adulterated gospel, and thus BELIEVE IN VAIN. Do you remember Adam and Eve? A little bit of Satan goes a long way.
I have made a decision to learn from Adam and Eve’s mistake. I will follow and believe God’s word that He has given to me. I have believed the gospel of the grace of God “alone” for my salvation. Call me wise if you want to. I’ll just call myself a forever saved and blessed child of God...
That's what I say.... It is JESUS CHRIST that saves us, removes our sins.... Not water baptism... This amazing gift by accepting the Gospel happens first before we are water baptised
We are commanded to “rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15).” However, hardly anyone does so.
Thankfully, those that do “rightly divide the word of truth” are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when they believe the gospel of their salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).
Jeremiah, ignored plain biblical text, and denied the power of the name of Jesus. He twisted passages to ignore textual implications. He falsely separated baptism from the sanctified work of the Holy Spirit. He calls baptism a work of merit that the Bible never-ever does. He puts justification by faith and baptism at odds with one another, which the Bible never does. The Bible says baptism and the saving power of the resurrection go together, this opponent denies it. He makes baptism only an empty symbol, the Bible makes it a symbol that affects what it symbolizes by the Spirit. His organization is more like “the apologetic-kitten” that has no teeth and requires the elementary milk!
Hey, Mike! Question for you. You may have addressed this in the debate but I’m watching bit by bit. But what are your thoughts on someone who is baptized believing that their baptism was only an outward expression of an inward faith - would you say that they’re saved? I’ve been wrestling with this because many of my friends do not believe that water baptism is necessary for justification. Thanks!
Hi, Drew! Thanks for the question! That’s a tough question and it has been quite controversial in the history of the Restoration Movement. Battle lines were drawn over it between the Gospel Advocate under Lipscomb, who argued that such people are scripturally baptized, and the Firm Foundation under McGary, who argued that such persons aren’t scripturally baptized. I feel some power in Lipscomb’s arguments, but I think that rebaptism is the best choice for a couple of reasons. First, Col 2:12 talks about “faith in the working of God.” I exegete “working of God” there to mean God’s work of burying and raising us with Christ in baptism. Thus, baptism is savingly effective through our trust that God is working in baptism. Second, Acts 18:24-19:7 sets forth the pattern that a person with faith in Jesus (Apollos taught everything about Jesus correctly) who receives an unscriptural baptism needs to be rebaptized. I know that these comments are brief. Email us if you’d like anything clarified. Our email is theprogressiveprimitivist@gmail.com 😁
I always look at this way, we go to the doctor because of a reason. I’m hurting or sick and want to get better. The reasoning behind it matters. I wouldn’t go to a doctor and him come into the room and ask me why I’m here and me tell the doctor, I don’t know. That would be very odd. It’s the same way we go to Christ as our healer, people on the day of Pentecost wanted to be healed and to be in a right relationship with God. They knew of their sickness and desired a way to get better. They had a reason and Peter gave them the prescription. The doctor prescribes us meds for the reason we came to him. The reason behind it matters. Just thought I would share and hope it makes sense.
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist Hi! "... they explained to him [Apollos] the way of God more adequately." I am responding to your earlier mention of Acts 18:24-19:7 in this thread. Does the Greek lend any more detail to the short passage that I quoted, as it seems rather vague? Are you of the persuasion that Luke assumes, based on his writing of 19:5, that the reader will put 2 & 2 together regarding Apollos and rebaptism, since he never states this explicitly? Thank you.
It wouldn't be a "rebaptism". It would be getting baptized in accordance with the word of God to understand that we participate in the first importance of the gospel and that it's for remission of sins.
I am of the opinion that scriptural baptism provides an objective experience, rather than a subjective one. By that I mean that as long as one repents towards God and places their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and is immersed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, then, regardless of one’s subjective ideas of what that baptism might be doing, the objective truth of what God does for a sinner at baptism does not change. In other words, one can be wrong about what baptism does, but still receive the benefits (as long as one is following the NT model of baptizing new converts upon profession of repentance and faith).
Excellent debate on both sides. Dr. Shaye Cohen and others also conflate circumcision and baptism: both representing entry into the covenant. Mike likewise seems to remove CoC from works righteousness when he showed evidence that Paul placed baptism outside of works.
Thank you!
As did Martin Luther! Surprise, Surprise!
No need to watch. When the first speaker in the first twenty seconds mis-defines the word baptize, there's no need to go on.
I sort of agree. I won't discuss baptism with the COC unless the worldview and definitions are settled first. The COC redefines and ignores 95% of what happens in salvation. Therefore, discussing water baptism is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Complete waste of time.
The gentleman desires to rewrite Acts 2:38 because he thinks the grammar requires it. He doesn't seem to get that no real translation of Act 2:38 accepts his way of translating the passage. That should give him a clue, but when you do not want to accept what it actually say, very smart people have attempted every TRICK in the books. This guy doesn't get it. He thinks Mike only thinks pistis mean "mental assent." Any honest person will see that the word faith has many connotations including the word "Trust."
Any honest person examining COC theology and history will know for a fact that the COC does think PISTIS means mental assent, because they use that argument every time this issue is discussed. FAITH is a synonym for TRUST, which the COC do not believe, do not teach, and utterly reject.
In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
holy spirit not water,
@@donhaddix3770 No man was ever given authority to baptize people with the Holy Spirit. Only Christ could do that. And no one was ever commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit -- that was a promise, not a command. But the baptism administered by the apostles was a command (Acts 10:47). And the baptism in the Holy Spirit was not for all people, but for only a few. The baptism of "the Great Commission" (Mark 16:15,16; Matthew 28:19) was for all people and was to be administered by followers of Christ. That is the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was to empower people, as Jesus told the apostles, "Ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit is come upon you" (Acts 1:8). The purpose of the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 was for an entirely different purpose.
@@kac0404 no where does it say man water baptizes for salvation..
@@donhaddix3770 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED; but he that believeth not Shall be damned.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@@kac0404 Ephesians 4:4-6 says, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Since there are different "baptisms" referred to in the New Testament, it can be a bit confusing when we read about "one baptism." The word baptize always means “to submerge or immerse.” So, when baptism is discussed, it involves a person being totally submerged into something else. Baptism implies being "all in." It also implies that a change has taken place. Baptized people are changed people.
Generally speaking, there are two types of baptism: a physical (water) baptism and a spiritual baptism. One is done in water; the other is accomplished in the Holy Spirit.
Water baptism was commanded by Jesus for all of His followers (Acts 1:8). Colossians 2:12 says, "Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead." Being baptized with water does not save us; faith in the finished work of Christ saves us (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:9). But water baptism is an outward indication of an inward change. It is a wonderful picture of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Being immersed in water symbolizes the cleansing of our hearts and the washing away of our sin by the blood of Jesus (Acts 2:38). Through water baptism, believers publicly proclaim their testimony that they have been born again by the grace of God.
Romans 6:3 speaks of a spiritual baptism: "Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" This spiritual baptism “into Christ” is performed by the Holy Spirit the moment a repentant sinner accepts the gift of salvation and is born again (John 3:5; Ephesians 2:18; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Acts 8:12). We respond to the Holy Spirit’s drawing and are born into God’s family (John 6:44; 1 Corinthians 6:19). By this "baptism," we are identified with the death and resurrection of Jesus; from then on, we consider ourselves "crucified with Christ" (Galatians 2:20). We choose to lose ourselves and be immersed in Him (Matthew 16:24), and the Holy Spirit makes that happen.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit was promised by John the Baptist, who said that Jesus “will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Luke 3:16). No one understood what John meant until after Jesus had ascended back into heaven (Acts 1:9). Jesus had promised the disciples that He would send "the Comforter" (John 14:26; 15:26; Luke 24:49). His followers were to wait in Jerusalem until the "promise from the Father" came (Acts 1:4). That promise came in Acts 2. The Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples, and they were never the same again. They were bold in their witness, empowered to perform miracles, willing to endure persecution, and all but one died a martyr’s death. The church had begun. Throughout the book of Acts, that baptism by the Holy Spirit was repeated as people came to know Jesus, both Jew and Gentile, and served to unify the church as the Jewish believers realized that the Holy Spirit was poured out on their Gentile brothers as well.
There are some differences of opinion among believers concerning the baptism of the Spirit. Some Christians believe Holy Spirit baptism is identical to being baptized into Christ and that it occurs at the moment of salvation, even if the believer is unconscious of it. Other Christians believe Holy Spirit baptism is to be equated with the filling of the Spirit and that often occurs after salvation-years later, perhaps-as the believer opens himself up to the Spirit’s control. Some believe that the baptism of the Spirit is always accompanied by signs (such as speaking in tongues), and others believe that such signs are unnecessary.
When Paul wrote to the Ephesian believers about "one baptism," he was reminding them that, regardless of their background or nationality, they all served the same Lord, shared the same faith, and had experienced the same baptism. He could be referring to water baptism; i.e., all believers have the same testimony of salvation and have been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Or he could be referring to Spirit baptism; i.e., all believers have been placed into the Body of Christ through the Spirit’s power. Either way, the emphasis is on unity among Christians. Verse 3 says, "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace." The Holy Spirit works to unify believers and provides assurance that they are children of God (Romans 8:16; Ephesians 1:13-14). By reminding the church that they all had a similar testimony and that they were all partakers in the same Holy Spirit, Paul encouraged them to work together for the cause of Christ so that the message of redemption would continue to spread throughout the world (Matthew 28:19).
the amount of the fallacious argument and assumption from jermaih is very amazing
which time lol?? :D
I agree! Sadly, he was predestined to make those arguments🤣
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist ......from before the foundation of the world :D
@@TheApologeticDog 😆
You guys are so determined to label us as a cult but you are very poor exegetes. Remove the log out of your own eyes before you attempt to remove the speck out of your brother’s eyes.
We are not your brother, according to the doctrines of the COC.
@@HeLivesForever25 Whether you are brother, I know not. I preach the word of God. Your ideas that you display are very sectarian and very legalistic. You talk but say nothing. Scripture means very little to you. You reject justification by faith. Faith is not enough, you believe faith plus correct doctrine saves. Faith plus denial of scripture is your creed. John wrote that one shows he knows God because he keeps his commandments (1 John 2:3-6). I choose God and his way.
This is why sola scriptura is FALSE. Good faith people come to different conclusions reading the same scripture. An authority is necessary to properly interpret scripture, and Christ instituted this authority when He established the Catholic Church.
Yeah and they used that so called authority to introduce false doctines that go against the bible. Pretty some the Catholic church will be marrying gay people , they already bless them individually and call Muslims brothers who worship the same God . really the Roman Catholic church started in the 4th century. Everyone from protestants to secular historians know this. Only the rcc says , umm no our church started in 33ad LOL😂😂😂😂😂
@@adamguy33 Yet another comment that makes ZERO sense.
@adamguy33 So, what church are you a part of?
@@kac0404 the comment made perfect sense... Just because you can't understand it is your problem. The response to the Catholic is sound. Just because you have an authoritative body does not mean they will interpret scriptures properly. The Jehovah witnesses have a authoritative body to interpret scriptures and yet deny the deity of CHRIST. The RCC have dogmas that say you can pray to Mary and Saints. CoC says salvation happens at water baptism. These are all wrong according to scripture , so my comment makes perfect sense to people with an IQ over 100. Anyway I'm a good old fashioned non calvinistic Baptist.
"Unless a man be born again of WATER and the Holy Spirit, he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God. " .;"and there are three that ber witness on earth: the Spirit and the WATER and the Blood; and these three are ONE." First Letter of St. John. Therefore, there is no benefit from blood of Christ for "washing away" of sin from the soul if it is not united to the Water of the Sacrament of Baptism, nor is there a work of the Spirit in the soul if it is not united to the Water of Baptism.Very simple. You people are all over the place except at the center where the Truth is found, because you wil not heaar the Church (singular) and founded by Christ 2000 years ago on the "rock" of Peter to whom alone He ave the "Keys o the Kingdom of heaven". Why don't you go study what the early fathers of the Catholic Church (east and west - first four centuries of Christianity) unanimously taught about the sacrament of baptism and its absolute necessity for the salvation of every human creature? They were scrupulously faithful to what Christ solemnly taught, unlike you, who because it is a "work", (although you try to prove that it is not a work to conform scripture to your pet heresy of faith alone saves), you must declare that baptism is not necessary, because it works no change in the soul of the believer and is only a symbol of is/her faith (not defining however what you mean by "faith") Fact is: there is no baptism without the work of human hands pouring the water, or filling the pool into which the Catechumen will descend ( both DO something, right?) as in the Eastern rites of Baptism.. Christ and his apostles commanded works, beginning with Baptism, but you people teach that what He and his Apostles after Him commanded to be done as necessary for salvation is not necessary for salvation. "Go into the whole world and preach the Gospel to every creature...Baptizing them . teaching them to observe (DO) all things that I have COMMANDED you." Case closed.
A question for all church of christ persons....
How would you unskew, propositionalize and bring out the implied relationship of the genitive construction (baptism of repentance) in Mark 1:4? 😊 I challenge all church of christ persons, on any topic, on the phone! ❤
John's purpose was to prepare people for the coming Christ (Matthew 11:10). Paul explained, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus" (Acts 19:4). It wasn't the same as Christ's baptism. We see this in Ephesus because after Paul explained the difference, the men in Ephesus were baptized again, this time into Christ (Acts 19:5).
Good dodge..@@kac0404
@philjackson5387 John's baptism of the people is the first mention of baptism in the Bible. Water was used in the Old Testament for ceremonial cleansing to remove uncleanness (Numbers 19:7), but there is no mention of complete immersion, particularly in connection with the removal of sin. Some have claimed that John was extending an old custom from the ancient days of Israel, but such is not found in the Bible. That baptism was a new rite is shown by the Jews’ question of John, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” (John 1:25). They questioned his right to add a new ordinance if he did not have sufficient authority. They understood that ordinary men cannot change the practices authorized by God.
I suppose that your point is that the prepositional phrase (εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν) modifies repentance, which is in the genitive (μετανοίας), and not baptism (βάπτισμα). Thus, John preached that one was to repent for forgiveness and to be baptized to demonstrate that they’d done so. If that’s your argument, the problem is that prepositional phrases in such constructions generally modify the main noun and not the modifying noun in the genitive case.
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist Very good my friend..... Lots of truth in your statement..... It is incomplete due to you not propositionalizing it, but very close..... 1 Peter 5:14 is a genitive construction of the same class: result- reason........
If you are married, do you kiss your wife to demonstrate your love for her or express the love expecting nothing in return?
Just a thought.... Have you seen me answer this question in another post elsewhere? :))
Jesus Christ came and died for sins and sinners. Mark chapters 14-16; Isaiah 53 ( Research what is meant by " He was bruised...He was broken..., and you will understand the extent of what He went through for His alledged crime!)
To actually understand who the runner in Mark 14, verse 51...is, one has to take the whole chapter into consideration.
1) Jesus had just finished with the last supper, He had just declared that one of His own would be betraying Him.
What does the word "betray" mean?
2) He had just left in the middle of the night to go to the Mount of Olives, and went alone further with 3 of His desciples- to pray, and it is written that He began to be " sore amazed...and very heavy".
What could trouble His soul to such an extent as to have to even ask His desciples to - a) sit here, close to Him, while He prays;
b) letting them know the extent of and reason for the sorrow in his SOUL! and to still " tarry and watch"
c) what could have made Him to plead with His Father to try and take away this cup- filled with wrath of God, especially for the impending trap that has been prepared for Him, leading to His final mission to end the cycle of sin which began in Genesis 3. d) why was it important for Him that His desciples "watch and pray?", and what could be so bad to make His and their flesh weak? Verses 32-38?
Why would there have to be present, tge priests, scribes, elders, and a great multitude? Verse 43?
What must they witness that would be so outrageous and abominable, that would demand immediate arrest and subsequent insult, maltreatment of Jesus Christ, that even His desciples wouldn't want to be associated with him?
And suddenly, there appeared a "certain naked young man, simply clad with a linen cloth, left and fled naked?
What was his role in the setup of Jesus Christ, in a remote place, in the middle of the night?
What did they want to show concerning Jesus Christ?
Why would even their witnesses not agree? Wasn't it because they didn't understand the depth of their satanic mind?
This man claimed to be the Son of God, and the descendant of King David, and was now found in a blatantly staged compromising situation?
Verse 61: Why was it important for them to ask about His status as " the Christ, the Son of the Most BLESSED?" Implying he was cursed?
Funny, that was the only question He answered because it was the Truth! The Truth they were not willing to accept, instead smeared His reputation for the who world to see, since Jerusalem was teeming with people from all over for the feast of passover!
The most admirable and regal thing about this is that Jesus Christ kept quiet, even when they condemned Him to death according to Leviticus 20:13, with all the false witnesses to corroborate their false accusations of blasphemous conduct and speech, spitting on and making fun of Him verses 55-65!
Wow! He actually preferred to be condemned to death, rather than say anything that would condemn even the man that fled naked from the scene! He would have made them look for him and arrest him for lewd conduct and immoral act.
But, didn't Jesus Christ come to seek and save the lost- even those who are called immoral and who commit abomination? This just proved how Jesus Christ paid for the punishment of every one, especially those who the scriptures condemned as committing abomination, they were the most beneficial of His condemnation and subsequent punishment and eventual cursed death on the cross of Calvary. Anyone who still tramples on His shed blood, after seeing what He did for them, by continuing in their pernicious ways, would have no more plea for sin.
They will be looking forward to a fiery judgment on that day, but God will be Just and Righteous in judgment!
He put the most needful for the last, He never overlooked anyone, no matter who they are or the nature of their sins, He paid for them all!
Thus, the naked man clad with linen cloth in verses 51 and 52, the bait set up to implicate Jesus Christ and anyone associated with Him. I believe that Judas was blindsided with the appearance of this young man, and this made him regret ever colluding with these people, because that wasn't part of the agreement, and this got him to commit suicide!Let us remember that these people will do anything in order to get their way. They actually went to catch a woman committing adultery in the very act, John 8: 3-11 so that they can have something to trap Jesus. They have been looking for ways to get rid of Him, and this naked young guy was it! That would be the reason why Peter vehemently denying knowing Jesus Christ 3 times, and Jesus Christ was left alone to finish the work of salvation of the soul of man by paying the ultimate wages of sin: cursed death on the cross! He was buried, and He rose again from the dead on the 3rd day. So all who believe in Him should have justification from sin and would be imputed with the righteousness of God, by grace through faith in His sacrificial death, burial and resurrection, and will have everlasting life 1 Corinthians 15:51-58, when He presents them faultless before the presence of God the Father, with exceeding joy! Jude 24.
Whosoever does not believe and abide till the end, Matthew 24:13, when He returns to take up all His purchased possession, 1Thesalonians 4:13-18, will be condemned to everlasting fire Isaiah 66:24.
We all get to make informed choices and decisions, so God will be righteous and just when He judges, and every mouth will be stopped on that day! Romans 3:19;
Acts 17:31; Psalm 96:13; Isaiah 11:4; Psalm 51:4.7!
Crucify yourself with Christ and live forever. Galatians 2:20.
at pentacost the holy spirit came first, then baptism.
the thief was not baptized.
Acts 10:47
“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
@@sonsofpolaris6102 there are no exceptions.
salvation is by repentance in faith.
the Holy Spirit makes it real.
water baptism tells the world we have been saved.
sanctification is growth.
same for all all the time.
@@sonsofpolaris6102 water, female birth. baby in womb in water. woman breaks water at birth. messy, like when my wife broke at water at sons birth. first birth flesh.
Many verses emphasize salvation by grace through faith without mentioning water baptism:
1. John 1:12
2. John 3:14-18, 36 (whoever)
3. John 5:24
4. John 6:29-40, 47, 69 (whoever, everyone)
5. John 11:25-26 (whoever)
6. John 12:46-50 (whoever)
7. John 16:7-9 (not believe)
8. John 17:20-22
9. John 20:31
10. Acts 2:21,33 (everyone)
11. Acts 10:43-48 (whoever, water baptism follows belief and Holy Spirit’s work of salvation)
12. Acts 13:38-39, 48 (everyone)
13. Acts 15:8-11
14. Acts 16:30-31 (answer to a direct question: What must I do to be saved?)
15. Acts 26:18
16. Romans 1:16 (everyone)
17. Romans 3:20-31 (all who believe)
18. Romans 4:1-11
19. Romans 4:23-25
20. Romans 5:1-21
21. Romans 9:30-33 (whoever)
22. Romans 10:4-13 (everyone, whoever)
23. Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:1-28 (whoever, baptism secondary to faith)
24. Galatians 5:5-6
25. Ephesians 2:8-10
26. Philippians 3:4-14
27. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
28. Hebrews 4:2-3
29. 1 Peter 2:6
30. 1 John 1:5-10
31. 1 John 4:15 (God abides in whoever confesses Christ)
32. 1 John 5:1, 10-13 (whoever)
33. Other verses mention belief without water baptism: Luke 7:50; John 2:11, 23; John 4:39, 41; John 7:38-39; John 8:30-32; John 9:35-36; John 10:42; John 11:45, 48; John 12:11, 42-44; John 14:1, 12; John 20:31; Acts 14:23; Acts 20:21; Romans 15:13; Philippians 1:29; Titus 3:8. There nine instances of conversion in the book of Acts without reference to baptism: Acts 3:1-4:4, Acts 5:1-14, Acts 9:32-35, Acts 11:19-24, Acts 13:6-12, Acts 13:42-52, Acts 14:1, Acts 17:10-12, Acts 17:22-34. Did the authors miss the opportunity to mention baptism in these many passages if it is so important?
How do you know, whether the thief had been baptized by John or not? The Baptism of John was...the council of God! (John 6: 29)! The thief on the cross died under the Law of Moses! Acts 2: 38, was under the Law of Christ and is also the "council" of God!
Paul was told..."arise be baptized, wash away thy sins"! Cornelius was told to fetch for Peter, who would tell him "WORDS", whereby,
He and his household would be saved"! (Acts 2: 38)
John 6: 29, "believing"... is a work of God, which we must do!
Romans 16: 16,
...the churches of Christ salute you..."!
One Lord...One faith...One baptism!
The baptism of John was fulfilled before Pentecost! (Acts chapter two)!
@@aquillafleetwood4209 here we go with assumptions
Christ reacted to his faith is all we know.
the gentile Cornelius acted in faith.
The thief did not have to be baptized as he died under the Old Law!
Romans 9:8-24 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls- 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory- 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Salvation is a sovereign work of God. God chose whom he would save in Christ from eternity past according to his eternal decree, based off nothing we had done either good or bad - before we were born. Thats why Paul says in v16 it (salvation) does not depend on human will or exertion. Faith, repentance, baptism, nothing we do "causes salvation". Election v11 is the root cause of everything to do with our justification, sanctification, and glorification (Rom 8:28-30, Eph 1:4-5, Eph 2:1-10) because we are all by nature rebels against God and incapable of doing anything God commands apart from His Grace working in use to bring it about. (John 6:37, John 6:44, John 6:65, Romans 8:7-8, Acts 13:48) salvation is by grace alone- through faith alone.
First, please remember that Jesus Christ has His own fold John 10. All Believers must now remain in this fold John 15.
This fold is made up of only those who hear and believe in His sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 10.
They are now sealed and led by the Holy Spirit, or better still baptized into Him- as members of His body, by the Holy Spirit - John 20-22 Ephesians1:13-14. (Like it was in the book Genesis 2:7), else they have no life of God in them Ephesians 2:12; Romans 8:9,14.
They must now only be led by the Holy Spirit. How? By daily studying the scriptures, which is written for our examples, admonitions, teaching, exhortation, etc.
We learn from them how God dealt with those before us and will do the same to us. If we do not take to heart, the lesson learned.
God permitted people to gather in churches for this very purpose. Now, it's no longer the case.
The churches began to separate themselves into denominations, using the very word of the God they do not know, to lord it over unsuspecting and ignorant congregants. The issue of tithes and offerings got their wheels going smoothly until these same are used to crush and curse the very people that fund them.
Paul collected money from the gentiles to help Believer Jews in Jerusalem, not for his personal use. He was a very wealthy young ruler who got his calling deferred Luke 18:18-22; Galatians 1:11-16, he saw the light - literally. He then counted it as dung, just to know Jesus Christ alone, Philippians 3.
Unfortunately, they now use God's laws, which is specifically for the Jews, before He rejected them, for believers in this dispensation of grace. Romans 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:12; Deuteronomy 4:19; Acts 13:32; Malachi chapters1-4.
Unfortunately, these buildings become their personal property once they are done, and none of those who helped had any claims to it. The schools are not affordable, and only those who could pay could send their children, etc. They do charity work only to be seen, as the law specified, as a non for profit organization, nothing to do with God.
Even godly acts may not necessarily be approved by God.
Jesus Christ sent His Holy Spirit, specifically to teach, lead, and guide. He only helps those who call on God, out of a sincere heart. They are kept in the fold: one faith, one Lord, one Baptism, etc. And only those in the fold, watching and praying, an love His appearing will be taken up and out to be presented faultless before the presence of God the Father, with exceeding joy, on that day!
All it takes it hear the gospel, believe, confess, and ask for daily infilling and leading of the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13. You don't ask and believe, you don't get. Why? Because God is Holy and Righteous. He can't give you what you don't ask for and believe for while waiting patiently to receive. The operative word is "patiently "
We all learned something from churches, but now they have gone aside from what they have been teaching. God is not mocked.
Therefore, the assembly of ourselves is what you and I are doing right now - for where two or three are gathered, there, Jesus Christ, is, in the midst of them Matthew 18:20. Not necessarily in an organized building. They take nothing with them, whether they die or are taken up! Why live like this earth is your home? Proverbs 1:20-33! (Why God seems not to answer when we cry out. Because we are living outside of His grace - in utter disobedience and disregard for His love in Jesus Christ).
I believe that if you put your left foot in and you take your left foot out, then you do the Hokey Pokey and shake it all about, then you'll be Justified (whatever that means). 🤣
I am not surprised that you don't know what Justified means. The COC has no clue, and it's the foundation of salvation.
@@HeLivesForever25 What’s COC?
@@RLBays Church of Christ
Justification, salvation and sanctification
Justification - forgiveness, the clearing of all of my guilt and the deserved penalty for committed sins, through faith in Jesus Christ, who took on the penalty for my sins and paid the price by dying in my stead. (Galatians 2:16) This leads to salvation.
Salvation - saved from the penalty of committed sin, but - even greater - also from the very root of sin; from the bondage I was in to the body of sin. (Hebrews 7:19, 25) The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in me and works in me, leading me to overcome sin before it is committed. I am saved from the necessity of committing sin just because I have sin - which leads to …
Sanctification - This is the result of salvation. It is the transformation from human to divine nature (2 Peter 1:2-4; 1 Peter 1:15-16; Matthew 5:48); being made holy. This is a process I undergo throughout my lifetime as I, in obedience to the Spirit, put off the works of the flesh and take on the fruit of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-16)
Justification, salvation and sanctification all happen in water baptism (1 Cor 6:11; Tit 3:5-7).
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist false,
@@donhaddix3770 Nope, just #facts🤷🏻♂Checkout those scriptures and get back to me.
@@donhaddix3770 The phrase "washed, sanctified, and justified" appears in 1 Corinthians 6:11, which says, "You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". Some theological traditions believe that baptism gives baptized people a new heart for God.
Mike, I hope you do a break down of this debate. Jeremiah says a word: Salvivic? What does that mean?
We’re editing our breakdown now! Got a couple hours of footage to edit👀
Salvific is an adjective that means “saving.”
I may have to get my blood pressure in check for this one! :D
Might have the paramedics on speed dial just in case🤪
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist OH MAN!!! haha
A person must be “baptized” to be saved, but it has nothing to do with water. The proof is found below.
Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit)
Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then the Holy Spirit came from heaven. (Acts 10:38) The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church?
The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again)
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.)
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment)
============
Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?
What did Peter say below?
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 1:5, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water/ every time they read the word "baptize" in the text.
Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13)
“baptize” KJV
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.)
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5)
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant)
@@sonsofpolaris6102 I was "born of water" during 1955 shortly after my mother said to my faither..."My water just broke."
Nicodemus was talking about natural childbirth in the verse below.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Anyone who has to use ridicule or condemnation to make their Bible doctrine work has revealed the doctrine for what it really is.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Your idea is a false dichotomy. In scripture spirit and water are linked. Baptism is not an Old Testament issue. It is not proselyte baptism which was a ceremonially washing. Proselyte baptism was a washing the person performed himself for ceremonial cleansing. This is not the context of John or apostolic baptism.
@@darrellclark2248 The differences between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary are not my idea. Jesus lived His whole life perfectly under the Old Covenant until the moment He died at Calvary and God ripped the temple veil in half from the top to the bottom. See Hebrews 12:18-24. We are not come to Mount Sinai in verse 18. We are come instead to the new covenant church of Mount Sion and the blood of Jesus in verses 22-24.
What did Peter say below?
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
A person must be baptized to be saved, but it has nothing to do with water. The proof is found below.
Eating Kosher is not unbiblical, but it is not required under the New Covenant. Circumcision of male children is not unbiblical, but it is not required under the New Covenant. Trimming your beard according to the Law of Moses is not unbiblical, but it is not required under the New Covenant. Water baptisms were a part of the Old Covenant, but they are not required under the New Covenant. The proof is found below. John baptized with water. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Which one is related to salvation, based on Romans 8:9?
.
Heb. 9:10 (YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them . (Old Covenant ------> New Covenant)
.
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(What is the one baptism of our faith here, based on Eph. 1:12-13, and 1 Cor. 12:13?)
.
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
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Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(See Mark 1:8.)
@@SpotterVideo You have not proven anything that is in question. To say water has “nothing” to with the salvific event is to ignore the many texts to the contrary. We can argue that God delivered the Israelites from bondage without denying the miracle of the walking on dry ground through the Red Sea. The Deliverance included the Sea, even though God was at the center of every action. Baptism is much like this: read 1 Cor 10:1-2. We have promises and fulfillment of said promises. Baptism is a mystery because it is an event where Christ and a man meet.(Rom 6:1-6).
When you equate baptism to such rituals, you are not following either Paul or Jesus. Baptism has connected the salvific miracle of the Christ mystery to the believer’s condition by the Spirit. This is where you stray from biblical truth.
Yes, it is a necessary part of Salvation. Believe is most always associated or followed with baptism, such as the Eunuch, whom Phillip baptized, "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him" (Acts 8:36-38). The Great Commission, Jesus Christ's last commandment to the Apostles was, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" (Matthew 28:19). The Scriptures also state, "He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16).
I had this debate suggested on Jeremiah's channel, but found Mike Hisaw to have presented the better case. I found Jeremiah inconsistent, and that there wasnt a clear exegesis on Acts.
Thank you for watching the debate and for your encouraging words!
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist Mr. Hisaw did extremely well to say it's his first debate. I think there's room to improve during the cross examination. I agree that throughout the debate Jeremiah and Mike were missing each other's points.
Jeremiah at 1:22:12, "We both reject their entire theology (Lutheran). This is ironic because he more than likely has Luther's theology of salvation if he subscribes to Penal Substitutionary Atonement, that is, positional righteousness. Very ironic that he doesn't recognize just how much he really follows Luther. He says at 1:20, "You have to watch out for Lutherans". Apparently he hasn't watched closely enough.
I am quite aware since I am Reformed Baptist lol ....and I was kidding when I said that, I have many Lutheran friends :D
@@TheApologeticDog Do you take the position that the Baptists are the original church that Jesus built and that churches like yours have existed in every age?
@@TheOrthodoxLandmarker-jy2zs no, I believe that the church is sanctified over time, which is the process of Jesus building His church. I do think the core of the gospel has always existed which is justification is by grace through faith apart from works
@@TheApologeticDog What does that mean "the church is sanctified over time"? Matt. 16:18, Eph 3:21, Dan. 2:44 confirm that Jesus established his kingdom during the days of the Roman Caesars, comprised of churches at his first advent and that the gates of hell would not prevail and that true churches would exist in every age. If Baptists aren't the true churches then where and who are they? Also Penal Substitutionary Atonement, along with positional righteousness didn't exist until the end of the 11th century. It was invented by Anselm, Archbishop of Canterbury. Additionally, the soteriology you are advocating was invented by Martin Luther. So how can these things be the Gospel? They had no existence prior to those dates and so your theory is faulty. Have you ever studied the Ante Nicene Fathers?
@@TheOrthodoxLandmarker-jy2zs I think you are confusing the invention of the terms with the substance. That is like saying Tertullian invented the Trinity. Maybe you actually think that.
The church are the called out ones by grace through faith apart from works. The 2nd century saints have matured over time in their understanding of doctrine over time
Baptism is INTO( eis) Christ and marks a change of relationship! ( Gal. 3:26-27).In this Debate Mark is doing a masterful job of defending the truth in baptism against the faith only advocate.
@02:23:00 The whole arguemtn that in James 2 justification is before men is one of the worst arguments ever.
that's some next level Counter point apologetics right there lol
@TheApologeticDog dude, that's all you got. Nothing. Why are you still a Calvinist? You can not prove it is justification before man in the text AT ALL. The context itself refutes it as your opponent easily pointed to by order of argument. Literally, James goes to an argument that absolutely has NOTHING TO DO WITH JUSTIFICATION BEFORE MEN. So James to bolster his position goes to a argument that has absolutely nothing to do with it as his first argument of presentation. LOL. Which is directly after your focus point and as well as James Whites. You attempted to throw in a comment later about it, which made little sense to the point of contention. Stop being a Calvinist....
@@Counterpoint_Apologetics yeah I mean....your counter point apologetics are just tooooooo powerful for me :D
@@TheApologeticDog seems so...
Agreed! It runs counter to the obvious facts of the passage (v 19-why would demons tremble because men don’t approve of them?and scholarly opinion (BDAG).
Is not Church of Christ a cult?
No, the “Church of Christ” is not a cult.
yes the modern group that calls themselves "church of Christ" is a cult
By what definition?
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist the biblical one :)
@@TheApologeticDogwhat a way to demonstrate love by answering with a sarcastic and demeaning answer. Peter tells us to be ready to give an answer, not give a sarcastic one liner. I would like to hear your actual answer to the above question, I guess, that is, if you actual have one.
Think about it
jesus never baptized anybody in water and
jesus refused to baptize John the Baptist in water.
The truth is water baptism ended when John baptized jesus.
John had to complete his testimony ❗❗
Your whole comment is totally false!!!!!
@@kac0404 Thank you for the comment , what do you believe the reason John the Baptist baptized Jesus..?
Um how do we know he didn't baptise
@@artistart55 Jesus wanted to do it "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:13-15). It was "right" to openly desire identification with the will of God. And, it was at the moment of Jesus' baptism that God openly called Jesus His Son "in Whom I am well pleased" (Matthew 3:16-17). While Jesus was not baptized "for remission of sins," He was baptized to fill the order of what was right. Jesus felt it would be unrighteous or wrong to not be baptized.
@@kac0404
the baptism of Jesus, was not for Jesus , it was for JOHN to fulfill his testimony.
JOHN 5:31-35 ( Jesus speaking)
“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true. 33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; BUT I MENTION IT THAT YOU MAY BE SAVED.
JOHN 1:6-7 John was sent to witness and testify about Jesus
I wish the debate had been with a free will or non-reformed Baptist. Then it could have actually been about baptism. When you argue with a calvinist about any topic you're really just arguing about Calvinism with them.
Many people have said this. We’re hoping to do more debates with more people!
when did I argue Calvinism lol?
@@TheProgressivePrimitivist yeah I heard you recently hit up Marlon Wilson ;)
Mark sticks to plain scriptures on faith and baptism! Jeremiah denies or fails to note Acts 2:38:Matt.28:19:Titus 3:5:Rom
.6:3-4,etc.which plainly teach the essentiity of baptism as an act of submission to the Saviour.
Strawman argument, PEople who follow God's command to be baptized for the remission of sins are prideful and being meritorious. He's the one proud he's not like the others as somehow he's superior in believing and yet refusing baptism as JEsus cmmanded. Go ye therefore into all the world and make disciples of all nations, (how)baptizing them .
@@montyeason3973 In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
Justification is not salvation.
Baptism is initiation. Salvation is a lifelong process of growing in virtue and imitating Christ.
@@caryntalty4014 salvation is instantaneous., no water required. sanctification is lifelong.
@@donhaddix3770 well salvation comes at judgement at the end of life, does it not? Until then we say like the Apostle Paul that we hope for it…. I think you and I mean the same thing just with different words, do we not? Paul teaches us to run the race…. What we hope for is final perseverance and full repentance by the grace of God.
@@caryntalty4014 it comes at repentance. only the lost are judged at the end of time. the saved go to heaven immediately at death.
2 Corinthians 5:8
King James Version
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
You don't know what you are talking about!
If it’s faith alone the transgender 🏳️⚧️ are saved by just believing and they don’t obey God by their works. They are doing whatever they want!! That what 2nd guy is saying as long as u believe in God he going save you.
try again lol
@@TheApologeticDog Why don’t you show me the Bible verse for faith alone. What happens when you don’t follow the Bible like it written.
If it’s faith alone like you say then you give the transgenders free pass too
@@HOCKMAN1981 sure I will after you show me a verse that uses the word Trinity....go for it :D
The reason you believe they can live as they want is that you have a wrong understanding of the nature of man. Your world view is secular humanism, and your understanding of salvation has nothing to do with God or man.
The "Church ", isn't the building where people congregate to worship who or what they like, it is the New Creation of God, made up of believers in the sacrificial death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, from all over the world, no matter their background. They're daily infilled with and led by the Holy Spirit, kept in His fold until He returns to redeem His purchased possession, as promised, and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father.
The Holy Spirit has left these buildings, thus they can do as they please. They didn't say they wanted to be saved or seek eternal life with Christ Jesus in God, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, so, let them be.
Nebuchadnezzar and the Romans could only enter the temple to destroy it only after the presence and glory of GOD left Ezekiel chapters 8-11; Matthew 24:1. The restraining power had left! This power instantly killed even the high priest who came with the tiniest of sin, how much more the heathen or unbelievers.
The end justifies the means.
They're doing what feels best for them, knowing that this world is programmed to fail- everything is geared toward vanity. Esau had his bowl of porridge, he lived to regret it.
Most of these preachers already got fat from the offerings and tithes of gullible, unsuspecting congregants, and they're blinded by the five senses, which only ends in death and destruction. Life only comes in abiding in Christ Jesus till the end. John 8:21; Matthew 24:13.
They're feeling good, so let them enjoy their fleeting time.
They didn’t know the Way, the Truth and the Life, but they're putting together their own truth, to sell to those who would buy it.
The five foolish virgins are already lining up to "buy" oil for their dead lamp, because they didn't bring enough. Both they and the sellers will be outside of the shut gate...but, there's still time this day, for any of them who would turn back to the fold. If they can bear to leave their temporal comfort zones, and seek for the eternal. 1 John 2:19; Hebrews chapters 6 and 10.
No excuses on that day!