Baptism Debate: Dr. Jones Dr. Allen (Church of Christ) | Dr. Bjornstad Rev. Kingdon (Baptist Church)
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
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This is a debate between Dr.Jimmy Allen, Dr.Jerry Jones and, Dr.James Bjornstad, Rev. David Kingdon on the John Ankerberg Show. The topic is whether or not baptism is a requirement for salvation.
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- Baptism is commanded by Christ, the Head of the Church (Mark 16:16)
- Baptism signifies the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-4)
- Baptism is for the remission of sins (Act 2:38).
- Baptism saves (I Peter 3:21)
- In baptism one makes contact with the blood of Jesus through His death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4)
- Baptism is an act essential to salvation (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16)
- Baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16)
- Baptism gives one entry into the church (John 3:5; I Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27)
re;Baptism: There are two parts to baptism.
1- The MEANING of baptism. By the meaning of baptism, we mean the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurs at the moment one is born again.
2- The MODE of baptism. Is the method of baptism (immersion, aspersion etc...) whereby the candidate testifies openly by his testimony that he is born again and has decided to follow the Lord.
The thief on the cross was baptized, has he accepted (Meaning) Jesus has his Saviour and was not, under the circumstances obligated to be immerse by the (mode).
The apostles were baptized of the Spirit at Pentecost, yet there is not a single verse that can be found where any of them were immersed or otherwise. Neither was the thief on the cross.
All of your examples in your comment seam to focus on the METHOD of baptism rather than the MEANING of baptism. The word BAPTISM is very misleading.
It implies that, the MODE of baptism invariably means, EMMERSION. If the translators were honest and not biased, why not used the word IMMERSE whenever the word baptize is used. If you are a student of the word, you should avail yourself of the classic book "βαπτίζω (baptism), by James W. Dale".
What is the meaning of "Believers Baptism", it means that one is baptized because he has believed that Jesus Christ is God and his Savior. Not because he has been IMMERSED in water.
@bernardmichaud1099 The first thing one should observe is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was never given as a command to be administered by man, nor was it to be obeyed by man. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise to be received by certain men chosen for a certain purpose. When Jesus spoke on the subject between His resurrection and His ascension, He appeared to the chosen apostles, speaking to them things concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 1:1-3). Among the things spoken to them were the following words: “ … wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” {He said,} “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:4-5 NAS). Overjoyed at this statement they asked, “ … Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6 NAS). To this question Jesus replied with the following promise, “ … It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth” (Acts 1:7-8 NAS). It is clear that while John could and did baptize in water it was Christ, and only Christ, who would baptize with the Holy Spirit. Another fundamental thing to be noticed here is that John did not mean to include all disciples, with reference to being baptized in the Holy Spirit; neither did he mean that all of the multitude, which heard him, would receive the baptism of fire. He simply made a prophetic declaration, regarding these matters, to the multitudes that heard him.
@bernardmichaud1099 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM IS IN WATER
1 Peter 3:20-21
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Mark 1:9-10
(9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
(10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Acts 8:38-39
(38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
(39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
@bernardmichaud1099 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@bernardmichaud1099 THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM BRINGS US INTO CONTACT WITH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
Colossians 2:11-13
(11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
(13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
The Baptists' entire argument (if one wants to call it that) on this passage is based upon the Westcott-Hort text, not the Textus Receptus. That's why the rendering in the KJV is a little different than the ASV. If a person, any person, has to rely on a textual variation, then we already know that his argument is worthless.
There are some people in New Testament that are saved without mentioning of baptism . My memory is fading but I think he was a eunich that was asked what he was reading .And he soon leaves to go on his way being saved .
@JesseMongia THE EUNUCH WAS BAPTIZED
Acts 8:35-39 KJV
[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. [36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. [38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. [39] And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
@@kac0404 you are correct . Can't rely on my memory , fer sure .However ,I was wrong about that circumstance , but I am ALMOST positive I got this next one right . However ,I am not able to remember where these examples are in New Testament , but I do know they exist and there is more than just one example where people are saved and aren't baptized in liquid water .Thank you .
@JesseMongia Well give me book, chapter and verse where Christians are saved without baptism. How can they be when Jesus Himself says:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark 16:16
The Jordan river does not cleanse leporsy but it did cure Naaman when Naaman dipped 7 times as he was told to. Simply put, it is obedience that cured him. Water itself does not save but it does when we are obediant by being baptised as we are commanded to.
God was giving us a "picture" pointing to what saves us when using water to cleans the leper .The "picture" being shown was NOT saving/cleansing from obedience , but God was pointing to himself as the water that saves and cleanses , Jeremiah 17:13 .God is the fountain of water that we must not forsake .Though yer comment may sound correct ; you missed completely the reason of "water" being what saves us (God is the water) and not the obedient works .
Nothing but the blood of Jesus pays our sin debt, He is the spotless lamb of God, water is water. As God said in Exodus when I see the blood I will pass over you and the plague shall not be upon you when I strike the land of Egypt, Ex 12:13.
They called that believer's baptism, and Paul said in Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Baptism in water is a obedience, that is a work. John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Baptism demonstrates our death and resurrection which is what Peter said, 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Romans 10:9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. It is for sure that the Lord knows our hearts and minds, that we each are doing what we believe to be right with our water baptism.
The phrase, “shall be saved,” connects the blood of Christ and baptism. In Romans 5:8-9, the apostle Paul said, “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” But when Jesus gave the “Great Commission,” He said these words: “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mk.16:15-16). So, while there is no doubt that Jesus saves us by His blood, He only does so when we are baptized. This connects the blood of Christ to baptism!
THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
This is best debate on baptism I’ve ever seen. The moderator was exceptional in teasing out the differences in perspectives. I wonder why one identifies with the name Baptist but considers baptism unnecessary to salvation. What does the name Baptist signify? Typically, a name denotes that which we value the most. If it’s John’s baptism of repentance, the Bible clearly states that John’s baptism was insufficient. It was prelude to Jesus’ command for baptism.
The name comes from the fact that at the time most other denominations baptized babies. The thing that separated what we now call baptists was the fact that they baptized only after one confessed belief in Jesus because that’s the pattern of the scriptures. They do have that in common with what we now call Church of Christ, they just disagree on the timing of our justification.
Does Baptist mean baptism? Try maybe John the Baptist who stated that he baptize unto repentance and the one who follows me, Speaking of Jesus, he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. I could tell you where that is but you need to look it up and then tell us why you think water baptism saves anyone. Read where Peter went to talk to Cornelius in Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.NOTICE VERY CAREFULLY WHEN THEY WERE BAPTIZED, AFTER THEY HAD BEEN FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. Now explain why Peter said this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
2 Peter makes it abundantly clear Baptism saves us. It also makes it abundantly clear that water is the mode. Why isn't the spirit the mode? Because the Spirit is being conjoined to us in baptism. We were through our first birth conjoined to the spirit of Adam. In our rebirth, we are being conjoined to the spirit of truth. /I meant 1 Peter/
"not the removal of dirt of the flesh but an appeal to God" why didn't you quote the rest of the verse? it's obvious that it's referring to spiritual baptism, whilst water Baptism being nothing more than a symbol
@@GospelSaves * why didn't you quote the rest of the verse? * I was waiting for someone like you to come along and show their ignorance. The reason it says that is to indicate it is talking about water baptism otherwise why would it have to say that? The phrase 'even our baptism doth now save us' is book-ended by two phrases indicating water so there is no confusion. But you still got confused, didn't you? The fact is the baptism it is talking about is the baptism by the Holy Spirit through the word which is still water baptism. There is only one baptism but that baptism has two elements. There is 'by water (Mark 16:16, John 3:5) and there is 'by the spirit (also Mark 16:16, John 3:5).
@@GospelSaves * whilst water Baptism being nothing more than a symbol * The bible does not call it a (nothing more than a) symbol. Only people trying to demote it emphasize something that does not in fact demote it. Very real things in the bible are said to be symbols of something else also very real. The Passover is said to symbolize Christ. The pillar of smoke and fire was a symbol of Christ's presence. The Mana and the rock of Mirabah. The spiritual baptism is God's grace. The water baptism is our faith.
@@GospelSaves You tell me... why would God be making an appeal to himself in our baptism if it were exclusively spiritual baptism? We are the one's making the appeal to God and we do it by submitting to this symbol of being buried because we accept (Christ's) death (as our own). And upon accepting that death we believe we are raised by God to walk a new life (in Christ).
@@GospelSavesthen you believe in 2 baptisms which Ephesians says one Faith one Lord and One baptism
I was a member of a Church Of Christ for a few years. I will save this to Watch Later
He accused the COC of jumping FROM one scripture to another and he did the same thing.
That's typical church of Christ for ua
In Romans 6:3-4 Paul wrote, “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” At what point does Paul indicate that one dies to sin and receives new life? When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
Yes spiritually baptized.
I Corinthians 12:13 NKJV
[13] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
@@GospelSaves That does not mean that you're spiritually baptized!
@@GospelSaves The first thing one should observe is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was never given as a command to be administered by man, nor was it to be obeyed by man. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was a promise to be received by certain men chosen for a certain purpose. When Jesus spoke on the subject between His resurrection and His ascension, He appeared to the chosen apostles, speaking to them things concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 1:1-3). Among the things spoken to them were the following words: “ … wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” {He said,} “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:4-5 NAS). Overjoyed at this statement they asked, “ … Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6 NAS). To this question Jesus replied with the following promise, “ … It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth” (Acts 1:7-8 NAS). It is clear that while John could and did baptize in water it was Christ, and only Christ, who would baptize with the Holy Spirit. Another fundamental thing to be noticed here is that John did not mean to include all disciples, with reference to being baptized in the Holy Spirit; neither did he mean that all of the multitude, which heard him, would receive the baptism of fire. He simply made a prophetic declaration, regarding these matters, to the multitudes that heard him.
When man believes first.
Them he runs the partaking of the physical by being immersed to put in motion the faith
you know, the clearest pictures about baptized is when Paul say’s, in him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by a human hands,your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by, Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of god, who raised him from the dead, when you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, god made you alive with Christ, he forgave us our sin, Colossians 2:11-13, Paul as Jew was also circumcised in the eighth day, and was baptized right after his conversion, acts 22:16, and now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
Very simple just search the word baptism in the bible and every verses that talks about baptism will appear and you will know by reading all those passages that baptism is essential for our salvation.
And if you search them all, you will see that the word Baptize does not mean water.
@@aletheia8054 understand the context not only the word.
Read: John 3: 1-5 talks about baptism.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom.
Read: is baptism or Baptize refers to emersion of water?
Mat 3:11 “I indeed baptize you in water for repentance, but he who comes after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you in the Holy Spirit.
Mar 1:8 I baptized you in water, but he will baptize you in the Holy Spirit.”
Luk 3:16 John answered them all, “I indeed baptize you with water, but he comes who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to loosen. He will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire,
Joh 1:26 John answered them, “I baptize in water, but among you stands one whom you don’t know.
Joh 1:33 I didn’t recognize him, but he who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘On whomever you will see the Spirit descending and remaining on him is he who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’
Those passages teaches us the importance of water in baptism without water you cannot obey the command to baptize.
@@aletheia8054What was Jesus baptized with?
Why did the eunuch see water and ask can I be baptized now?
@@WLBarton4466 Jesus was baptized with a Pharisees procelyte Baptism. Same as the eunuch.
Correct. The eunuch asked to be dipped in water, not commanded.
@@aletheia8054 Too many others to try and help.
Time to dust off and move in as the apostles were told with stubbornness.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Thank God I left the lutheran doctrine and obeyed the gospel of Acts 2:38
Lutheran don't acknowledge acts 2/38?
@@iggyantioch I know and several other verses they leave out, just like baptist, methodist, presbyterian, ECT... That's why I became a Christian
Uhhh.... I won't pretend to speak for all Lutherans, especially the liberals who merely call themselves "Lutherans", but Lutheran theology absolutely does NOT deny Acts 2:38. In what world is it right of you to assume every Lutheran denies the Word of God? Because some disagree with your own interpretation? Please be more honest and humble in the future. What an absolutely dishonest assertion.
@@jmh7977 No Lutheran believes baptism for remission of sins
@@kevinhoneycutt238 uhhh... what? That is so absolutely untrue, I can't reasonably believe you understand Lutheran theology in this regard. And since I don't know you personally and this claim is so absurd, I'm afraid you're seeming like a bad faith actor with an emotional axe to grind. I hope as a Christian that's not the case and it's simply a case of ignorance, which is completely forgivable.
Let's actually quote the verse itself (and from which the Nicene Creed quotes from, which is recited every Sunday during Divine Service by every confessional Lutheran): "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" - Acts 2:38
Every Lutheran I've met, which amounts to very few in my own social circle and those online, affirms this without question or reservation. You may have walked away from something you didn't actually understand or perhaps you were swayed by outsiders who also didn't understand Lutheran theology.
Amazing how some will practically fight to the death to justify ignoring God's plans and wishes for us. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." Then some, in utter defiance, attempt to cry like a baby, "I want to be saved but I don't want to do it God's way. I don't want to be baptized." This surely must be implanted in them by the Devil.
I hope you get saved while you have time. Matt. 7:2
@@RoyceVanBlaricome Thank you.🙏
It is not liquid water that saves but spiritual water that saves in Christ as the thief on the cross was saved by Holy Spirit (water) .
@@JesseMongia i understand your perspective. God can save in extraordinary circumstances. But it is the nature of man, by your example, to doubt and question God's commands. So has it been and I suppose will always be. Men doubt that breaking bread and drinking fruit of the vine can have any spiritual significance. And men doubt that upon heeding God's command to be immersed in baptism and arise to walk in newness of life, that this will truly wash away one's sins.
@JesseMongia you're right in the fact that there is nothing special about the water but don't be tricked into thinking that going into the water and being immersed is not a requirement to be saved because it absolutely is. God bless
Churches of Christ always winning in every debates!
It’s easy to win a debate when you take the Word for what it says.
So if by winning means so many that disagree with you have got it wrong ,and that makes you happy ? ! Everyone else getting it wrong makes you happy ! ? If so then where is that Spirit from ?
What did they win? The failed exegesis award?
Russ: IT is not about winning... it's about rightly dividing, explaining the truth so that men and women can be saved according to what the scriptures teach and not what MERE MEN THINK AND TEACH.
@@willietodd3864 amen 🙏🏼 🙏🏼
How can the Baptist not see the truth that baptism is essential unto salvation, it shows that there academic background hasn't helped these Baptist at all, I pray they change to believing that baptism is essential unto salvation.
Truth is in the eyes of the beholders. Nothing but the blood of Christ washes away sin. Even you sing that song, what can wash away my sin, nothing but the blood of Jesus, what can make me whole again, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS. AMEN OR OH ME?
@@amos3three941Read Romans 6:3 please.
What are your thoughts on the man who was crucified with Christ... "This day, you will be with me in paradise."??
P.S. I agree that if you have the opportunity, you SHOULD be baptized!
Hebrews 11 Faith they believe and obeyed
No,they are not brothers in the Lord because they have obeyed another gospel... they are wrangling over words... and refuse to take the scriptures as written.... COC representatives shame on you..."we are brothers"...
Good point. Sad but true. Needs to be said. They have "another gospel" and are anathema. (Gal. 1:8-9)
I agree. They are preaching a false doctrine that will lead people to damnation if they follow it. The Bible says don’t even eat a meal with such a person, let alone consider him a brother.
Kudos to your reply @willietodd3864 ! So many get heated up and sounding angry when they feel boxed in with spiritual answers and questions . It's at that point that I feel they've tipped their hand exposing their Spirit inside them .
@@JesseMongia - I agree but would just caution you to not be too quick to see anger necessarily as a bad thing and someone tipping their hand to their Spirit. One of the problems with Christianity today is that there is a blizzard of Snowflakes on every corner just waiting to have a meltdown over just about anything and VERY often the problem they have is NOT with the SUBSTANCE of what's been said but rather the PERCEIVED tone in which it was said. I'm sure you've seen/heard the "that's not very Christ-like" or "you've got anger issues".
What's so sad is that SO many have created a Jesus in their own image according to their own ways, will, & wisdom. They’ve got their idol they’ve named “Jesus” or “God” who’s a PC, Woke, namby-pamby, panty-waisted effeminate wimp that talks with a soft-spoken lisp.
It's like they've got their own Jefferson Bible only they've cut out all the parts where Jesus ever judged, raised his voice, got angry, rebuked, disrespected, insulted, mocked, was sarcastic, engaged in name-calling, mentioned Hell or eternal torment, or in any other way triggered their sensibility proclivities, was "unloving", and offended anyone.
And a different Jesus is an idol that doesn’t save anyone.
Jesus fashioned a whip of cords and took it to the backsides of those who had turned His Father's House into a den of thieves. How much more do you reckon He would/will do to those who turn His Word into a LIE and bears false witness against Him in His own name?!
@@RoyceVanBlaricome says the guy that said they were preaching another gospel ,anthema ,and it needed to be said . Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black , isn't it .That's the thing about our comments we post ; is they are there forever .
I will never waiver on the belief that water baptism
is necessary for remission of our sins, also the help of the Holy Spirit
in discerning scripture.
Then you will wind up in the same lake of fire as all others who are anathema. (Gal. 1:8-9)
The blood of Christ saves not water
@@RoyceVanBlaricome I've been rebaptized in a church of Christ
@@RoyceVanBlaricomeyour not the judge GOD is
@@harolddavis1493 - Why were you "rebaptized"? I've heard the CoC won't recognize a baptism done by any other church or entity.
If after watching this debate you still think that water baptism saves, then I would strongly encourage you to watch the video by Robert Breaker "Is water baptism necessary for Salvation". In this video Robert will take you through all the verses pertaining to water baptism, baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Gospel message of Salvation. It will clarify why Acts 2:38 is not the Gospel message of Salvation, why it is not how we are saved, and how the book of Acts is a transition from Jews to Gentiles, from Israel to the Church, from signs and water rituals to Faith and Belief in Christ Jesus.
In Acts chapter 10, Peter has his first encounter with saving Gentiles. As Peter explained to the household of Cornelius the story of Jesus, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, the Gentiles. "44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word."
In Acts chapter 15, Paul goes to the apostles in Jerusalem to discuss the Gospel...and to find if there is a distinction between the salvation message between Jew and Gentile. Here is what Peter had to say: "7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them (Gentiles) by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us (Jews), 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by FAITH. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke (WORKS and the LAW) on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
And so how were the Gentiles saved back in Acts chapter 10....by believing in the Gospel that both Peter and Paul had preached. That by Grace through Faith in Christ we are saved.
Water baptism does not save, it is not a requirement for salvation, and is deeply wrong in thinking so. Rather it is a testament to your salvation, an act of faith in Christ, and a response to His command to be baptized.
THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
It also says we’re predestined and our salvation isn’t based off our “free will”.
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:29, NASB)
15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (Romans 9:15, NASB)
But most pick and choose which verses they want to harp on like trail mix.
So, Payton GOD shows partiality? So you believe one can not hear, believe AND OBEY THE one Gospel? Through out the scriptures man has always been given freewill from the beginning: Adam and Eve are prime examples.
@@paytongreen1938you aren’t taking all the passages of scripture that deal with predestination into account. It is by no means individual election. Ephesians 1:4 tells us the class of people that God predestined. Those that are “in Him” - “in Christ.” How does one get into Christ. See Romans 6:3-4 and Galatians 3:26-27
Your OPINION is duly noted and summarily dismissed because, well, it's just that and MORE IMPORTANTLY God says otherwise.
@RoyceVanBlaricome You are aware that at the beginning of my original post, it says, The Bible says and I gave 2 verses. That means that it's not my opinion but a Biblical fact. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean it's gonna change.
Galatians 3:27 speaks clearly. Clothed with Jesus, through the act of baptism. No one can be clothed with Jesus without being baptized.
Read it in context, Galatians 2:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. V24 again, that we might be justified by faith. 26 again, for YOU ARE ALL SONS OF GOD THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS. Sing it with me, what can wash away MY SIN, NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS. AMEN!
@@amos3three941 can you explain the meaning of verse 27?
What does CLOTHED WITH CHRIST MEANS TO YOU?
@@alexgreen5801Simply put:Faith puts one into Christ and His holy spirit in them by grace through faith. Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-Jews or Greeks, slaves or free-and all were made to drink of one Spirit. Romans 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. 10 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
They are not rightly dividing the word of truth! Peter was talking to the Jews in Acts 2:38 need to listen and study what our apostle (Paul) says. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 The Gospel that saves!!
THATS EXACTLY RIGHT!
That's a good point. Needs to be fleshed out a bit and your hermeneutic expounded upon but I think I know where you're coming from.
Did they preach two different gospels? The Jews have one way to be saved and the gentile another? Please explain. Thanks.
No, there's Only one way to be saved. They are misleading you. The Jews were the first to receive the gospel message just as Jesus said in John 4. The Gentiles were added in Acts 10 and explained by Peter in Acts 11. Thus, they were all saved the same way as it relates to being added to the church/kingdom.@@caughtupone
My question is, who among the early Christians didn't baptized ? Remember Matthew 28:18-20.
1 Corinthians 1:14 says, "I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius". Paul also mentions baptizing the household of Stephanas, but says he doesn't remember baptizing anyone else. Paul converted thousands but only baptized a few.
Why these Baptist leaders remain rebelling against the meaning derived by rightly dividing the word of God
For Salvation you must have faith as God says it is impossible to please him without faith.
Let’s talk about Mark 16:16? Or 1 Peter 3:21?
There’s an easy way to settle this argument. Most Baptists will acknowledge that baptism is important and should be observed.
Why is it important? You will likely get the answer, because Christ commanded it directly and obedience to Him is a requirement. So then, can we be saved if we are not obedient to a direct command of Jesus? I think that answer is very obviously NO.
Now there is another question, will God in His grace and mercy save someone that for whatever reason could not be immersed. And the answer to that is maybe. That’s up to God. Baptism is clearly commanded and we are commanded to teach and practice baptism. Therefore it is a requirement for full obedience to Jesus.
You have to be baptized to be a Baptist, yet the Baptist believe baptism isn't necessary, so does that mean it is not necessary to be a Baptist?
Funny.
Lol
Yes!
Baptized into is the spiritual baptism into Christ, not the physical dunking in water
The physical submersion and water is the representative or the sign of your justification and baptism into
I have talked to both of the church of christ preachers on the phone many years ago; neither one could handle the discussion with me.....They didn't know what they were talking about!!!
What discussion? Im a member of the church of christ and Im more than willing to deal with you.
Please do... Can we talk on the phone? @@Autofill1967
Can we talk on the phone?@@Autofill1967
Are you willing to talk on the phone?
@@Autofill1967 Still waiting!
I'm not sure if this message will resonate with everyone, but here's a straightforward explanation of baptism.
One aspect often overlooked in discussions about baptism is the Greek meaning of certain verses.
Take, for instance, John 3:5. When Jesus speaks of "water" in this verse, there's no definite article, indicating that "water" refers simply to plain water.
Similarly, in Mark 16:16, the word "και" (kai) can mean "and," "even," or "also." Yet, substituting these meanings in the verse doesn't alter its message; it still means "And."
While there are more examples, these illustrate that there's usually no need to alter the English translation of a verse, as it conveys the same meaning.
For those perplexed about the mode of baptism, there are straightforward verses to consider: Acts 8:36-39, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:3-7, and Ephesians 5:26.
Baptism is clear-cut, and distorting the words of Jesus is condemned.
Here are the sources for the verses I mentioned earlier: (Acts 8:36-39), (Acts 10:47-48), (Acts 22:16), (Romans 6:3-7), (Ephesians 5:26), (Mark 16:16), and (John 3:5.)
Understanding Greek is crucial for grasping deeper meanings, as emphasized in (2 Peter 3:14-16) and (Galatians 1:8). Either one accepts the truth of the Bible or forges their own path, as warned in (Proverbs 14:12), (2 Timothy 4:3-4) and, (-a path leading to spiritual death. Not to sound intimidating, just stating facts.
Wishing you a great day, and I hope this simplified exploration sheds some light on baptism. However, English say the same meaning, so it is useless if you still deny it.
Heard something that moved to hit Pause and do a quick study. I was hearing something and needed to test that spirit. What I found confirmed what I heard. I think I mentioned this before but in the discussion that ensued over Gal. 3:27 there is a key component that was alluded to but not fleshed out enough and that is whether Baptism ALWAYS refers to being physically dunked in water. It does NOT. Jesus Himself proves this in Matt. 20:22-23.
There are other passages that clearly show that it is figurative and some that may not be so clear. I believe Gal. 3:27 is figurative as Bjornstad said and for the reasons that he said. I believe the "baptized into Christ" is synonymous with being "immersed" in Christ and that physical baptism has NOTHING to do with that. The Believer is placed "IN Christ" by God. At that is done at the very moment of Conversion/Regeneration.
I'm REALLY trying to give the CoC folks a fair shot but the way they ae butchering and violently raping Scripture is making it VERY hard to do. They are now at the 1hr mark and now Allen is saying that "the way you call upon the Lord" wrt Rom. 10:13 is to be baptized!! Gimme a break!! What does it mean to call upon someone? The Greek word there is "epikaleomai" (G1941). It means to entreat or make an appeal to something. Is that what Baptism is?! Smh
That said, this is EXACTLY why I LOVE debates. If one REALLY wanted to go deep them could do a word study on several things both sides have said. Which I would think would be very edifying. These CoC guys refer to the Greek, the grammatical structure, the prepositions, verb tenses, etc. and yet completely miss what "call upon the Lord" means!
At the 1hr10min mark Allen just put his soteriology in a nutshell when he said "Belief plus baptism equals Salvation". That wraps it all up and it could be accurately translated "the act of a man to believe and the act of men to baptize/be baptized equals Salvation". One might as well say "Faith plus works equals baptism". That is why they must redefine Faith from what it actually is. Bjornstad expertly and superbly exegeted the verse to interpret it accurately. In EVERY single instance where I've had a "baptism is a requirement of Salvation" reference that verse they have ALWAYS quoted 16a and NOT 16b!! Why is that? I think it's clear why they don't. And you do NOT need to get into the aorist tense. Whether it be active or passive or what. One only needs to understand grammatical structure and English composition.
Allen just stated that "he that does not believe cannot be baptized". Anyone that has been a Christian for any length of time has probably come across several folks who claim to have been saved and baptized and then actually get saved. There are countless testimonies of folks who were baptized having made a profession of faith and then later actually get saved. So his logic there fails as well and those living testimonies are the EVIDENCE that falsifies his claim and soteriology.
Overall and excellent debate, Both sides presented their arguments VERY well. Overall enjoyable and edifying. Suffice it for here to say that Dr. Bjornstad & Kingdon won the debate hands down. Unfortunately, neither Bjornstad or KindOverall and excellent debate, Both sides presented their arguments VERY well. Overall enjoyable and edifying. Suffice it for here to say that Dr. Bjornstad & Kingdon won the debate hands down. I'd have liked to see how they responded to that.
"That is why they must redefine Faith from what it actually is." The church of Christ did not write, "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah - the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ." Who said that? Not some Campbellite, and certainly not some ignorant Baptist. Dr. J. H. Thayer wrote it as a definition of pisteuo in his Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 511. He did not write that faith is conviction and trust which is later followed by works. No, obedience is simply a part of faith, an amalgamation of trust, conviction, and obedience. There is a world of difference between obedience which Christ and His apostles placed antecedent to pardon and (2) meritorious works which could be seen as attempts to earn salvation. Do you know the most common response to Dr. Thayer's definition? "I don't believe what Thayer said - he didn't know what he was talking about." All I would ask is for someone to supply a few - maybe ten - passages in which the definition given above is accurate or "fits." Another thing, you said, "Anyone that has been a Christian for any length of time has probably come across several folks who claim to have been saved and baptized and then actually get saved." So that's your standard? Somebody's "testimony"? What happens when ten other people give totally different testimonies? Do we vote on which one sounds best?
@@brendanjobe6895- I agree with Thayer's definition of Faith. So I don't know what your argument is because the CoC definition doesn't fit with Thayer's.
//He did not write that faith is conviction and trust which is later followed by works.//
He didn't have to because it logically follows and because James covers that in James 2.
//No, obedience is simply a part of faith, an amalgamation of trust, conviction, and obedience.//
False. Obedience in an act that follows faith. It is not part of Faith. Obedience is no more a part of faith that a falling rock is part of Gravity. Faith is the SUBSTANCE or ESSENCE of things hoped for from EVIDENCE not seen. Faith is what someone has when they are hoping that a net will catch them as the plummet from Gravity to the ground,.
//There is a world of difference between obedience which Christ and His apostles placed antecedent to pardon and (2) meritorious works which could be seen as attempts to earn salvation.//
Agreed. And in the case of Salvation the obedience is to simply have Faith. To obey the first command Jesus gave in Scripture. Repent and Believe the Gospel.
//Do you know the most common response to Dr. Thayer's definition? "I don't believe what Thayer said - he didn't know what he was talking about."//
Ok, if you say so, I've no idea why you're hearing that or why folks would say that but ok. I'd say perhaps you're in the wrong crowd or something.
//All I would ask is for someone to supply a few - maybe ten - passages in which the definition given above is accurate or "fits."//
Which definition? Mine or Thayer's?
//Another thing, you said, "Anyone that has been a Christian for any length of time has probably come across several folks who claim to have been saved and baptized and then actually get saved." So that's your standard? Somebody's "testimony"?//
Yes, it's my standard given the CONTEXT!! That quote you just gave from me is in the CONTEXT of Allen saying "he that does not believe cannot be baptized" and I falsified that claim by pointing to the FACT that numerous people have been baptized and then later came to salvation thru true confession, repentance, and faith. Further EVIDENCE that Baptism doesn't save anyone and it is, just as I said in that CONTEXT, the act of a man being dunked in water by a man dunking him. IOW, it is an act of MAN and NOT God,.
//What happens when ten other people give totally different testimonies? Do we vote on which one sounds best?//
Nope. No need to vote. You can line up 10, a 100, or a 1000 people. It only takes ONE to falsify a truth claim. The FACT that it is not hard at all to find testimonies of people who were baptized, (some more than once!) and then saved later, or showing evidence that they're still not saved, is all the evidence one should need.
@@RoyceVanBlaricome Then you both believe and do not believe Thayer's definition of pisteuo. You say you believe it, then turn right around and say, "Obedience in an act that follows faith. It is not part of Faith." But that's not what Thayer's said! Liddell and Scott, in their lexicon of Classical Greek, offered "compliance" as a possible definition. What's the difference in obedience and compliance, practically?
Here's the difference: (1) Thayer said pisteuo means or can mean (shortened) conviction and trust amalgamated with obedience - the two can be inseparable, and (2) You say obedience is always a separate act of some kind that follows conviction and trust. That's why Allen said he accepted that we are saved by "faith only", as long as faith is properly defined. And Thayer, Liddell/Scott, Buchmann, etc properly define it as does Vine.
The trouble is that the Book plainly says the walls of Jericho fell by faith. Period. But when? After those Israelites did exactly what Thayer said pisteuo can mean. Had you been standing around, you could have corrected them - and called it "trumpet and walking" salvation.
@@brendanjobe6895 //Then you both believe and do not believe Thayer's definition of pisteuo.//
Uh, ok. LOL
//You say you believe it, then turn right around and say, "Obedience in an act that follows faith. It is not part of Faith." But that's not what Thayer's said!//
Correct. That's what I said . Because it's true. And yes, it is what Thayer said.
//Liddell and Scott, in their lexicon of Classical Greek, offered "compliance" as a possible definition. What's the difference in obedience and compliance, practically?//
I would have to see what they actually said to comment on it. You obviously have demonstrated a propensity for making claims that aren't true, seeing what's not there, and not seeing what is there. However, to your question, it would all depend upon the context to which each is used. There may be no difference at all but usually Compliance is indicative of willingness to follow a command and a tendency to yield to the authority of another whereas in strict Obedience that may not necessarily be the case.
//Here's the difference: (1) Thayer said pisteuo means or can mean (shortened) conviction and trust amalgamated with obedience - the two can be inseparable//
That's not what I have Thayer saying. I was gonna post a screen shot but I can't here. So here it is:
G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4102
//and (2) You say obedience is always a separate act of some kind that follows conviction and trust.//
Correct.
//That's why Allen said he accepted that we are saved by "faith only", as long as faith is properly defined.//
And he defines Baptism as part of Faith. It is not,
//And Thayer, Liddell/Scott, Buchmann, etc properly define it as does Vine.//
Yup. And NONE of them define it as Baptism or any other work. Here's how God defines it:
"Now faith is the essence of things being hoped, the evidence of things not having been seen."
(Heb 11:1 LITV)
Now, I have one simple question for you that should settle the matter and end the debate. Can you see Baptism or not? If you say Yes then you are admitting that Baptism is NOT part of Faith. If you say No then you are either delusional or a liar.
//The trouble is that the Book plainly says the walls of Jericho fell by faith. Period. But when? After those Israelites did exactly what Thayer said pisteuo can mean.//
False. On two counts. First, that's NOT what Thayer said. You have bore false witness against him twice now. See Pro. 6:16-19 for more on that. Secondly, v.30 says the EXACT SAME thing as preceding and succeeding verses. Take the immediately preceding verse for example:
"By faith they passed through the Red Sea, as through dry land; by which, the Egyptians taking the attempt, were swallowed up.// (Heb 11:29 LITV)
Using God's definition provided in Verse 1 of the SAME chapter, that and all the others are EVIDENCE that neither the passing thru the Red Sea or the walls of Jericho falling are part of faith. Further EVIDENCE can be seen (for those with eyes to see) in the contrast between the two. BOTH refer to the SAME "faith" and yet the PEOPLE walked thru the Red Sea whereas GOD caused the walls of Jericho to fall.
//Had you been standing around, you could have corrected them - and called it "trumpet and walking" salvation.//
Your mockery is duly noted. So is your bearing of false witness.
@@RoyceVanBlaricome Wait a minute, because (for one thing) I do at least have respect for your intelligence. Are you saying that Thayer did NOT write (when defining "pistis/pisteuo) "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah - the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ."? You sure didn't list it as a definition from him.
It is on page 511 on "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament", Corrected Edition about midway down the second column. I believe it was published in 1903. "Conjoined" means "united with" or "amalgamated with". You say just the opposite - that it must be disconnected from, separated from trust or conviction.
One more thing, Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament simply states the following: "pisteuo means 'to trust (also to obey)." That's on page 764 of the abridged version. I'm sure the unabridged says no less. Did HE know what he was talking about?
What advantage would I gain by deliberately misquoting all of these men (and there are quite a few), and then being exposed? That's why I'm doing my best to give you the references.
No, the position of church of Christ is completely wrong. You put on Christ when you believe in Him, not until you are baptized. Baptism does not make you put on Christ; rather it metaphorically symbolize the act of putting on Christ.
The Bible says baptism places us “in Christ”
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Colossians 3:2
3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus that he had to be baptized. Jesus said to repent and believe the gospel And I am a strong believer in baptism, but if one does not repent before being baptized, you can take that brother or sister down to the river and baptized, they went down as a sinner they'll come up a sinner without true repentance so repentant is. More important Or just as important as water Is baptism Let's not choke On a nat and swallow a camel.
Repentance is something that continues throughout a person's walk of faith. If you only repented once... you got a lot of studying to do.
Nicodemus was before the great commission
Believe the Gospel. Confess your sin to the Lord. Turn from sin. Live a life of servitude to God in holiness and reverence.
And be baptized.
What about repentance and baptism?
COC is The Truth
Some people go to Church every week.... Why ?
Because they need regular confirmation that the story is true.
Without the weekly repeat, they might forget it.
I am an Anabaptist . The Church of Christ has the biblical doctrine.
Thank you for your encouragement, brother!🙏
I am surprised nobody use. The example of Moses, leading the Israelites out of Egypt, they were saved from pharaoh, which is a picture of Satan, getting them out of the world. Deliverance and salvation are similar words I was delivered from the world at baptism if you study at all were baptized into Moses, and passed through the cloud, it’s by water, and by the spirit were saved.
I wish auditoriums would be filled with believers in earnest 2024. Auditoriums are filled with professors of faith for concerts and smoke shows claiming to be doing something pleasing to the G-d they are sure they know.
Why would Jesus het baptised before he died, why did John the Baptist get baptized before Christ death burial and resurrection?
Did the baptism save them under the old covenant or the new?
Its not the baptism that saves you, its the faith in Christ that leads us to obedience to be baptized. Baptism is an act of obedience and an outward expression of a spiritual rebirth.
When the Bible speaks of works it's referring to the obedience to the Mosaic law. Baptism was not a part of the Mosaic law. So to say baptism is a work is biblically incorrect.
One side seems complex and convoluted or at a minimum overcomplicated. The other side seems more direct and simpler
It doesn't actually matter to me if the thief was saved under the old dispensation or the new. The fact is Jesus is God. If God says something then it is so. Our respective theological viewpoints don't make the slightest difference. God said so. And so it was.
But, Jesus Christ said, whoever, calls Upon my name, shall be saved, first singular, second plural, it's the blood of the Lamb, our Lord Jesus Christ that washes away our sins, Jesus Christ died first, then the thief, and then the third
What about Abraham long before the New Covenant when God counted him as righteous because of faith.
All those who are heirs are heirs by faith. Why does Paul say he is glad he did not baptize many and say he was send to preach the gospel????
The Baptist’s have to jump through so many hoops 😭
I don’t know about Baptist, but Christians are in fact, correct. Salvation or justification only come by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
That requires no works on our part, except for believing.
@@drummerhq2263 yes, through faith. Faith is what saves in baptism.
@@LewisCarr-ee2xb baptism is merely a sign.
For instance, if there is a temporal difference in time between when you place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and the ordinance of baptism, but the individual dies before baptism, He will be saved.
He will spend eternity with Christ. ✝️
@@drummerhq2263 that's called baptism by desire.
Faith can enter the works. However works can not enter Faith.
It takes the death of the testator for a testament to come into force. Yet the scriptures also teach it was through his resurrection. Without the resurrection, we have no hope, and as Paul states in 1 Cor, 15, even those who were already asleep has no hope. So, speaking naturally, it takes the death of the testator, but the assets were not dispersed to heirs until after his resurrection. So, the correct thought is, that one cannot be saved under the New Testament until the will was read to the heirs. The heirs are those who receive the word and obey.
When was the 'New Testament' (> NKJV) instituted? Later translations translate as 'Convenant'. A convenant is somthing different to a testament. What says Mark 14:22-25 "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, “Take, [f]eat; this is My body.”" Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the [g]new covenant, which is she for many. 25 Assuredly, I say to you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.” > whendid Jezus drink the 'fruit of vine'? Unless you whould say that Jezus was a liar, He drank it on the cross: John 19:28 After this, Jesus, [e]knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” 29Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Jesus said it plain and simple. Whoever will believe and get baptized will be saved.
I know what I believe. But, at the end of the day, does it matter whether baptism is "regenerative", a work, absolutely necessary to be saved, etc? Is the question not, "as a faithful Christian, SHOULD we be baptized?" And that is ALL that matters?
From the one sided applause, it would seem he audience is majority Church of Christ
Dr B, paraphrasing , Mark 16:16 this is JESUS speaking 16 He that believeth and is baptized baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Are there words in that scripture you don’t understand? Could have Jesus been more clear? Why would you be fighting against what Jesus taught? Jesus is the eternal God, we can’t even comprehend his greatness. Jesus suffered, which suffering we can not understand, for each of us. Can anyone say too much about Jesus’s greatness? Jesus taught us how to live, so we can inherit the place he prepared for us. Should you not treat Jesus’s teachings with respect? How will you feel when you’re at the judgement, before Jesus, and tell him you choose not to follow his teachings, and persuaded others not to follow his teachings?
There are many truth
Important of Baptism.
1,Faith and Work .
James 2:17-26 (KJV)
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. [24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. [25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? [26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
2. Its The Teaching of Jesus Christ Love and keep /obey Jesus Christ Teaching.
John 14:15-16
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
3.its the Will of The Father .So keep the will of Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 KJV
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
3.yes for our sins,but Not ony for sins .
But to fullfill the righteousness.
Matthew 3:15 NIV
[15] Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
❤❤❤
Paul was Water Baptized washing His sins away
I keep hearing them talk about whether baptism "saves" without anyone defining what it means to be saved. NT scripture knows of multiple kinds of being saved and it depends on the context to know what it means. Knowing this is crucial to a right understanding Eph 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5 (which are very similar) because it is too easy to conflate the different aspects of salvation into one thing since the NT uses a generic term.
@bobthrasher8226 99% of COC theology has issues with this. So many debates and sermons don't work well because the COC uses completely different definitions for many terms. Mainstream Christianity operates from a different world view with a different concept of God and the nature of man than the COC uses. Your comment is well received.
Nonsense. As it relates to the belief that SAVES one from the wrath of God, there is but ONE SALVATION. You, like all false teachers are attempting to pervert the Word with this false narrative that "there are many salvations" which is utter nonsense. Tartarus is your destination.
@HeLivesForever25 The bottom line is, what does the Bible say? The church of Christ teaches this because of what the Bible says. The church of Christ also teaches that a person has to believe, repent and confess in order to be saved. If you're gonna criticize, at least get your facts straight.
John Baptist didn’t come to make a church his lord did tho
I would think a "good conscience" (1 Pet 3:21) would be a consequence of having sins removed. Therefore baptism, if it washes away sins, should result in a cleansed conscience. It also saves by "the resurrection of Jesus...". Why? Since you are "baptized into Christ," you are therefore baptized into His resurrection as well which is where our new life of righteousness comes from. It comes from our "participation" in Christ's resurrection of which baptism is the means of said participation.
Is being baptized in liquid water a work of righteousness ?
Any act performed by the body is a work. ANY. So, yes, to answer your question. Yes.@@JesseMongia
@@HeLivesForever25 you are right .💯
Then believing is a work. Guess no one can be saved then?
I love the COC philosophical double talk that tries to force believing to be a work.
Peace@@jimmydean123123
If baptism saves, how can anyone from the Old Testament be saved? or how can the thief on the cross be saved? Ephesians 2:8 we are saved by grace alone through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so no one may boast.
Baptism cannot save you, otherwise we’d live in water because we all continue to sin even once saved.
The same gospel that saves us in the beginning sanctifies us until our flesh returns to dust & our spirit is before our Creator.
THE BIBLE SAYS BAPTISM SAVES US
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The request made by "the thief on the cross" and Jesus answer came before the death of Jesus and before Jesus' New Testament took effect. Hence, the thief was not required to be baptized in the name of the Lord to be saved. How could one be "buried with Him (Jesus, hh ) by baptism into death" before Jesus died? (Romans 6:4). Baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins would be preached beginning on Pentecost after the death and resurrection of Jesus (Acts 2:38).
🙏🏼 amen
"I professed Christ" ... where is that written? What does he mean? I can READ ABOUT one having to make the confession that Jesus is the son of the living God like the apostle Peter and the Ethiopian eunuch did in Matthew 16 and Acts 8.
Abraham believed God and that was counted as righteousness. His obedience showed his faith. Ask Issac.
Right out of the gate, he refers to his guests as "distinguished gentlemen". Can you imagine Peter or Paul allowing themselves to be referred to as distinguished gentlemen? I think not.
In the old testament where did God promised to take those who do his commandment and in the new testament where do Jesus promised to take those who repent and Baptized
“O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to learn from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things for nothing-if indeed it was for nothing? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Just as Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, so know that those who are of faith, those are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to do them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; rather, “He who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”- in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
((Galatians 3:1-14 LSB))
Take them to Acts 19:1-5 which answers the question definitively as to whether or not they are brothers in Christ. They are NOT. The COC members are Christians and the Baptists, as are ALL OTHER DENOMINATIONS, aren't Christians either. In other words, only Christians are saved and the ONLY Christians are in the Church or Christ.
Well that knock out everyone prior to the mid 1850s… and everyone prior to Acts 2:38.
Why does this sound like Catholicism? Part of our church or your going to hell.
If Baptism saves a person, why Simon the Magus got baptized but not saved as Peter rebuked him after Baptism.
BAPTISM IS NOT THE WAY TO SALVATION BUT THE RESULT OF OUR SALVATION BECAUSE OF OBEDIENCE.
Christian is saved by grace, and through faith and this is not something we have to do. Not a result of works so we can boast saying, It's Baptism that saves. No believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved, then get baptized.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel...
Because he believed in Jesus miracles, but all he really wanted was to buy this gift with money.
Baptism is commanded, so obeying is an act of love (John 14:15). Also people who argue for the Sinner’s Prayer by quoting John 3:16, it more accurately translates - ”For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes “into” Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.“ The Greek word for in, eis, can also mean into. I would think that true belief has more to it than just simple objective belief like the demons have (James 2) and “into” shows this development of a loving relationship, dying with Christ as the old self and putting on the new self (Romans 6).
To whom gave Jezus Christ the baptise command? ONLY to the eleven Apostels. (Mat.28:16 / Mat.28:19) The Bible teaches us further that this command is transferred to all adult chrisitans. (Baptism by Ananias of apostel Paul. acts 9) But let's go back to the words of Jezus on the subject: Mat.28:19 "Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [d]Amen." > Nations (by defenition includes all people incl. baby's) / Baptise them / then teacht them all things.
Boring...
Wanna "prove" it's not required?
Read scripture written for this age...
(Romans thru Philemon)
Wanna "prove" it's required?
Read scripture written for Jews under the law...
(4 Gospels, Hebrews thru Revelation)
why this continues to be an issues with essentially every sect except the churches of christ and some primitive/regular baptist is beyond me. to a simpleton like me, a first reading of the test is clear: the simple act of obedient submission unto baptism is the point at which sin is forgiven, soul is added to His church, and Holy Spirit indwelling (whatever that is). this other stuff is just convoluted and i dont know why the insistance
Typical Baptist..... Abraham OBEYED GOD...he didn't just believe...he acted on what And whom he believed.I CAN Read action on the believers part THRU out the ot And new testament.
The Baptist ministers aren’t against obedience. They are making a point that is clearly taught in the Bible.
QUESTION:When was Abraham justified? Before or after he obeyed?
@@paytongreen1938 Hebrews 11:8 answers the question....He believed and Obeyed!!!!
@@paytongreen1938 * When was Abraham justified? Before or after he obeyed? * Both. James clearly says we are justified by works and not faith only.
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10:38]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness” - Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12 [A.D. 350]).
Though there isn't a bazillion baptisms mentioned in scripture ,there are still other baptisms beside liquid water baptisms .It helps the rest of us understand your comment if you are more specific on which baptism YOU believe saves a person .Think about it .Take yer time . I may have a good counter if you answer wrong .
@@JesseMongia I believe water baptism remits your sin and rescues the believer from the kingdom of satan and makes him a child of God. It's a bold confidence to a believer that you are forgiven and will be resurrected on the last day.
first of all... it isn't a debate. It's a rebellion.
I started to ask you what you meant by a rebellion. Then I saw who the poster was. How is this a rebellion?
Don't worry, I'm not expecting an answer, but I'm still posting the question.
@@HeLivesForever25 * Then I saw who the poster was. How is this a rebellion? * The scriptures say baptism saves. In contrast to what the scriptures say many denominations CONTEST it doesn't. * Don't worry, I'm not expecting an answer, but I'm still posting the question. * -you're not expecting an answer-? I'm fully capable of validating what I say.
Your response doesn't address the question. Peace.@@thundershadow
@@HeLivesForever25 I capitalized the word for emphasis. To contest is a synonym for rebel. I could have used the word contradict. It is all the same... it is opposition to scripture.
I do not agree that contest is a synonym for rebel. Thank you for answering.@@thundershadow
The New Testament, especially the letters by Paul, is clear that salvation comes by Faith in Christ. Now faith can come in different forms....faith exhibited by accepting Jesus as you savior, faith exhibited by reading God's Word and accepting Christ, faith exhibited by living a righteous lifestyle in obedience to Christ, etc. Jesus said that if you love me you will obey my commandments. One of them is to get water baptized. But that doesn't mean that water baptism is a "requirement" for salvation, nor does it mean that water baptism is the required act of faith for salvation. All of us should get water baptized after coming to Christ (not baptized as an infant), but if water baptism is a requirement for salvation, it isn't defined in Paul's letters.
It is defined in his example. He believed, repented, and confessed on the road to Damascus. He then prayed and fasted for 3 days, but Ananias told Paul that he was still in his sins. Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins by calling on God through baptism. Paul throughout his epistles is fighting against judaizing teachers who were teaching that works of the old law were required to be saved in the Christian age. That's an important piece of context that gets left out of most people's understanding of Paul's epistles.
@@roysjudy And Paul's mission, given to him by the risen Christ Himself, was to spread the Gospel message of salvation to both the Jews and the Gentiles. And he never mention water baptism as a requirement. And in fact, Paul down-played water baptism. Now I agree that Jesus was all followers to be water baptized, but He also wants us to follow other commandments, basically to love others and love God.
Paul's epistles were written to Christians who were already saved. Never once does he say "now that you've been saved you need to be baptized". When he talks about baptism it is always pointing back to the point where they were saved. Romans 6:3-4 absolutely teach baptism as necessary for salvation. Regardess, none of that changes Acts 22:16. Either Paul was still in his sins after belief confession, repentance, fasting, and prayer or he wasn't. It doesn't change the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16 when he set the requirements for salvation. It doesn't change Acts 2:38 when Peter preached the gospel for the first time and he told them to repent and be baptized for (eis) the remission of sins. These are 3 passages that directly teach baptism is necessary for salvation, we can't just skip to different passages and not answer these.
@@roysjudy You know those verses were all discussed in the video...and they don't support baptism as a requirement. Did you watch the video?
@@spacecoastz4026 it's very difficult to discuss over 3 or 4 comment threads on UA-cam comments section. 😂 If I miss something you said, I apologize it's not intentional. You say 1 Peter 3 is clearly not teaching water baptism, but I have never in my life heard anyone of any denomination say it's not speaking of water. I'm afraid you're forcing your doctrine into the passage. Peter is saying we are baptized in water, not as a bath to remove the filth from our bodies, but in order to have a clear conscience. Nothing whatsoever is pointing to Holy Spirit baptism. You haven't answered any of my reasons as to why this isn't Holy Spirit baptism, you've simply ignored them and restated your opinion.
Also, I have watched this debate probably a dozen times, because the pompous Dr. and the rev crack me up. It's a horrible debate. They didn't convincingly answer anything Jones and Allen said, it was very one sided. Please don't take this as me being harsh, but if we are going to find truth we have to be willing to consider that we could be wrong. I think you have been taught incorrectly that every time you see baptism it means Holy Spirit baptism. As kindly as I can say it, you haven't answered any of my arguments with scripture or logic, you've simply answered by repeating your conclusion with no evidence. Yes baptism symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection. That doesn't mean it isn't essential for salvation.
You also seem to be mentioning different ways that we can be saved. I don't see any of those ways in scripture. I gave you 3 examples of how people were saved and you've simply ignored them and offered your own words as a rebuttal. You say we have to accept Christ, but where is an example of someone simply "accepting" Christ? Why doesn't Peter tell the Jews to simply "accept" Christ in Acts 2:38? You could say "accept Jesus" as synecdoche (part that represents the whole) to represent the obedience to the plan of salvation, but I don't think that's how you're using it. I doubt I'm going to change your mind over UA-cam comments, but please think about your study methods and most importantly make sure you approach the Bible with an open mind and only draw from it what the Holy Spirit intended. Please don't force your pre-conceived ideas into the text.
At about the 1hr 8 min mark they are discussing Noah being saved through water and how this relates to baptism. Our old self dies and we are born a new person being clothed in Christ in baptism. Noah did go through the water. Not merely floating on top of it. Remember, the Ark floated in the water from below and sides and rain heavy enough to flood the entire earth ran down the top and sides of the Ark continuously covering the entire Ark with water. They went into the the water by floating while it was down pouring and came out of the water once it stopped raining and they stepped onto dry land.
I understand in a spiritual sense that the water in Noah's day and the water of Red Sea that killed Pharoah and army is a picture of God's wrath .Noah and eight others were saved from God's wrath in the ark which is pitched Inside and out .The ark is a symbolic picture of Christ saving them from God's wrath (water) . Pitched twice or doubled with pitch may mean ," it is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass", as per Genesis 41:32 . Also perhaps the ark pitched twice may point us to knowing truth ,2ndCor.13:1 , "by witness of two you shall know truth" .Twiced pitched may point to a truth of being IN CHRIST you are saved . Jus sayin' .
@@JesseMongiaTotal nonsense. Baptism and salvation are clearly linked throughout Scripture. Peter compared baptism to the water that saved Noah and said, “Baptism…now saves you” (1 Peter 3:20-21). Paul compared baptism to circumcision under Mosaic Law and indicated that being “buried with [Christ] in baptism” results in being “forgiven” of all your sins (Colossians 2:11-13). But no one made the relationship between baptism and salvation more clear than Jesus who said, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16).
@@kac0404 Aren't you the guy that sounded angry last time we texted ? I'm not sure I wanna explain my point of view of the water which saved the eight in the days of Noah . The water referred to may not be liquid water but is speaking of the washing of hearing the word of God from Noah who was a preacher besides an ark builder . It was through Noah that Christ spoke to the people in the prison of sin .This preaching of the word is the water that saved . Similar to the washing of the word coming from a husband upon a wife spoken in Ephesians, maybe 5:24-26
@JesseMongia Yeah, I'm the same guy that refuted your nonsense.
The saving of men today (I Peter 3:21-22)
I Peter 3:20 proclaims that Noah was saved through water. At first this seems strange. It was the water that destroyed the world during the Flood. But if we think in this way, we have lost track of the goal. Noah was being saved from a world of sin and the water was the means God used to destroy sin.
Peter then says that we are saved in the same way. Further, Peter makes sure we understand that it is not a physical outward cleansing that brings salvation, it is the obedient heart responding to the call of God. The water isn’t the salvation, but the means God used to bring about salvation (Romans 6:3-7). Notice that though baptism Paul says that sin dies in a man, leaving him a new creature. Is it the water that does it? No, it is the medium through which God chooses to do His will. Just as water washed away the evil from the world, leaving a new world for Noah and his family, baptism washes away our sins ( Acts 22:16). It is the putting off of sin done by God through our faith in the working of God when we obey God (Colossians 2:11-13).
Thus, how are we saved? In much the same way Noah was saved. Noah wasn’t warned of the impending doom and then created his own method to save his family. He was given the method by God. He responded in faith by doing as God directed and as a consequence, he and his family were saved.
@@kac0404 thanks for a very straightforward response of your view . I was really surprised.What I mean is , your writing was like from a completely different person . I don't have time right now to address your comment in detail but allow me the time to study scripture on the matter before I get back to you .
Jesus commanded baptism for salvation Plain and simple.
It is interesting that Noah's family was "saved through water" from a corrupt world. The water, or being in the Ark, didn't change Noah - he was already considered righteous by God. By being in the Ark (Christ) he was saved from judgement of the corrupt world. Because we are given a new, righteous life in Christ (which must be lived out), we will be saved from God's wrath on the present corrupt world.
What would happen to Noah if he didn't get in the boat
@@jimmydean123123Same thing as if he didn't build it.
@@bobthrasher8226 wrong
@@jimmydean123123why?
@@bobthrasher8226 because he didn't avail himself of the path to salvation that God provided
Why wouldn't someone want to be be Baptist in the name of the father in the son in the Holy spirit. The Father sent Jesus in Jesus sent the Holy spirit.
While I appreciate debate, this was presented almost like a game show!
Why wouldn't you want to identify with Christ in this manner, who himself was baptized by John the Baptist to "fullfil all righteousness." Mathew 3:15. It signifies your death, burial and resurrection unto a new life in Christ. Romans 6:1-14. Should not even be an issue if we are truly repentant.
Acts 2:38 they baptized for what reason? FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. Baptist guy said the repented and sins were forgiven. He changing the scriptures.
Galatians 1 6-13
Only one Gospel in verse 13 Paul was under old law he persecuted the Church.
Acts 22:16 arise be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord. Same as Acts 2:21
That is where Paul obeys the Gospel the ONE GOSPEL HE TALKING ABOUT. Acts 22:16
Church Paul is talking about in Galatians 1:13 is that a man made church?
they were early Israel converts to christ in acts 2- acts 9 not for us in the body of Christ revealed to and through Paul only! after his conversion in acts 9 ,!!
Paul preached both messages depending on who the audience is if it was Israel he preached the gospel of the circumscsion if it was a mix or gentiles he preached our message the gospel of the uncircumcision/body of christ!
Matthew10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Romans15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
James1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
the body of Christ mystery message given to paul only
rom 16 :25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations
Galatians1:11-12
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 1:17
Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
so from the time of the ascension of Christ in early acts, up until 3 years after Sauls conversion in acts 9 , in this time what message was peter James and the others preaching if the mystery message hadn't been revealed to them yet,????
Galatians 2 :7-9
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
@wolfwatchers In Acts 2:38 Peter said, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” At what point does Peter indicate that one receives “the forgiveness of [their] sins” as well as “the gift of the Holy Spirit?” When he or she is “baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.”
In Romans 6:3-4 Paul wrote, “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” At what point does Paul indicate that one dies to sin and receives new life? When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
In Galatians 3:26-27 Paul wrote, “for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” At what point does Paul indicate that one is “in Christ” and “put[s] on Christ?” When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
Based on these passages we see that baptism is essential to salvation because it is when one’s sins are forgiven, when one receives the Holy Spirit, when one dies to sin, when one starts a new life, and when one becomes a child of God in Christ. In other words, “Baptism is the time and place that God forgives and saves.” Thus, when it comes to salvation, baptism is not the what but the when. The moment when you receive God’s saving grace is the moment you emerge from the watery tomb of baptism. That is why baptism is essential to salvation. Baptism “completes our response of saving faith,” which “begins with a confessed belief, continues with repentance, and is completed in baptism.”
@samuelmonday9260 WRONG!!! In Romans 6:3-4 Paul wrote, “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” At what point does Paul indicate that one dies to sin and receives new life? When he or she is “baptized into Christ.”
@samuelmonday9260 Consider some easily discovered truths about baptism and its necessary relationship to salvation from Romans 6:
Vv 1-2 - Baptism is the point at which we are recognized as being dead to sin.
V 3 - Baptism is the means by one gets into Christ (cf Gal 3:27) and becomes a participant in the blessings of His death (cf Heb 9:22).
V 4 - Baptism is a burial (cf Col 2:12). The word so translated means immersion and never is identified as sprinkling or effusion/pouring. Baptism is the point at which one is raised to walk in newness of life.
V 5 - Baptism is the point at which one becomes united with Christ in the likeness of His death. Only those who have become united with Christ in baptism will share in the likeness of His resurrection.
V 6 - Baptism is the point at which the old man of sin is crucified. Baptism is when the old body of sin is destroyed. Baptism is the point at which one is no longer the slave of sin.
V 7 - Baptism is the point at which one is freed from sin.
V 11-Baptism is the point at which a dead man becomes alive to God in Christ Jesus the Lord.
Vv 17-18 - Baptism is the point at which one is set free from sin and becomes a slave of righteousness.
Anyone who can swerve and miss all these texts will give you religious whiplash.
Why was Christ baptized.? Identity with man, we are baptized identifying with Christ in his death and resurrection. Believer’s baptism IDENTITY WITH CHRIST
How can there be any clear understanding about this controversial subject, baptism. It seems that men will never agree on anything pertaining to scripture, for each has their own private interpretation. Has not our beloved brother, Paul left us record in I Cor -10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
When Paul wrote those words, he was speaking to brethren in the church. There will always be division between the saved and unsaved. But in the church, we should always be of the same mind and speak the same thing.
In the NT, you will NEVER see division between brethren regarding baptism. Everyone in the church never had a problem with baptism. For they understood it was necessary for their salvation, and never departed from it.
Even when it was time for the Gentiles to hear the gospel and become one with the Jews, notice Peter asked. "Can any man forbid water (not amniotic fluid) that these should not be baptized, who received the Holy Spirit as well as we? (Acts.10:47) .
None had a problem with it, and the household of Cornelius were baptized.
Later when Peter explained to the other apostles why he entered into the house of a Gentile, he explained everything, and they didn't have a problem with the Gentiles being baptized.
If you read and accept the scriptures regarding baptism without any preconceived ideas, you will never be confused or mistaken.
The Baptism of John te Baptist is WITH water IN the river Jordan and is NOT the same as the Christian Baptism, which John proclaimed to be with the Holy Spirit and fire. (Mat.3:11) Ask yourselve the question: Would you go into the water with a cloth's of camel hair and a leather belt? Day after day, being alone and Baptise thousands of people from around the place ware you Baptize? (vs.5) John said that he Baptised WITH water (vs.11) He did not Baptise in his underware so to speak, but distinguished as can be expected of the son of a priest who was called a prophet of God. Luke 1:76-78 “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, to give knowledge of salvation to His people by the remission of their sins, through the tender mercy of our God" Fill in and color the pictures:
He was that by birth....
Unless you would call our Lord Jezus a liar; He confirmed dat John Baptised WITH water in Acts1:5 We should thoroughly read the command of Jezus Christ for Baptism: It is mentioned in Mat.28:19 > Short: Preach the gospel to all Nations (a Nation consist of all people and includes children) Discipel Nations and Baptise them. Then afterwards teach them all my commandments to do them too.. WHO got the command? Every converted christian? NO, the eleven Apostels did. (vs.16) ...and thereafter: all Christians who were Baptised AND believe the Gospel. Think of Apostel Paul's Baptism by Ananias in Acts.9. On the 1st day of Pentecost. Apostle Peter had to declare that the prophecy of Joël was fulfullid (in their ears, by hearing) Is there in that prophecy anything that releates to all the things that happened?
Joel: 2:16 "Gather the people, Sanctify the congregation, Assemble the elders, Gather the children and nursing babes;
Let the bridegroom go out from his chamber, And the bride from her dressing room. 17Let the priests, who minister to the Lord, Weep between the porch and the altar; Let them say, “Spare Your people, O Lord, And do not give Your heritage to reproach, That the nations should [g]rule over them....who came to John the Baptist? is there any similarity in that?
And what about Ezekiel 36:24-29 etc. "For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses"
14:00 that’s Faith before baptism.
It depends if you want Jesus to forgive and mabe get to heaven then you have to be.
Jesus was still on earth when the thief was on the cross.
LUKE 5:17-26 The Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.
Jesus gave the command to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins after the resurrection. Mark 16:14-16
Jesus said to the man on the cross next to him "today you will be with me in paradise". (Luke Chapter 23 Verse 43). Had this man been water baptized???
Water baptism happens because someone has been saved. Water baptism doesn't save.
The recent coronation did not make Charles the King. Charles became the King when his mother - Queen Elizabeth the Second - died. The coronation happened because Charles is now the King.
A coronation for William or George would be nonsense as neither of them are King.
He was saved under the old covenant. But, do have a verse that says the thief wasn’t baptized? He knew about the kingdom somehow, someone might’ve studied with him before he went to jail.
Christ is merciful.
Also the thief went to paradise heaven wasn't open yet.
Perhaps he along with the rest in the dead wre preached to and accepted his word?
@@foreleftproductions756old covenant saved no one, but condemned everyone but God who could only uphold it, as He created it.
@@JC-Genesis15.6 So nobody was saved in the old testament?
Baptists spend more time explaining the Bible away than just believing what it says.
Bible says baptism of water and of spirit- water baptism is simply a symbol of the spirit baptism- just as a marriage ceremony is a witness of man and women being unified.
in Mat.3:11 John the Baptist says "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit ]and fire.
The ex hudatos of Jn. 35 is the same ex hudatos of Mk.1:10 and Acts 8:39.
Here's the plan of salvation as revealed in the New Testament; Hear the gospel. (Rom. 10:17) Believe the gospel. (John 8:24) Repent of your sins. (Acts 17:30) Confess to others your belief in Christ as the son of God. (Rom. 10:9-10, Acts 8:37) Be baptized for the remission of sins. (Acts 8:35-40, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16) Be faithful until death. (Rev. 2:10, Colossians 1:20-23)
Who is faithful unto death?
When it says in Galatians 3:26-27, "for as many of you that have been baptized into Christ, have put on christ." What makes them think that this is referring to water baptism? For by "ONE SPIRIT" Spirit are we all baptized into one body. IT IS REFERRING to spiritual baptism, being baptized with the Holy Ghost? Receiving the promise of the spirit through faith like Cornelius and his household?
The Bible says it’s in water.
1 Peter 3:20-21
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Mark 1:9-10
(9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
(10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Acts 8:38-39
(38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
(39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
@kac0404 that's what 1st Peter 3 says! That is not what Galatians 3:26:27 says! I guess when Jesus told his disciples to tarry in Jerusalem, and that they would be baptized in the Holy Ghost meant that they we're going to get Splashed with water? That is when they were baptized into the body of Christ when you receive the indwelling of the spirit. Galatians said FOR BY "ONE SPIRIT" are you baptized into the body of Christ
It's funny how these four "experts" study exact same book and can't come to agreement. Just might be the book.
Funny how a math textbook has thousands of users but not everyone gets the answers right. Must be the book
The math book isn't divine and infallible in its substance.
Might be the necessity for an authority.
What year was this? I beg everyone UA-cam channel to post dates on your videos for historical purposes.
We do not know. We would’ve given the date if we knew the date.
This video is ancient. It is NOT recent. It's been reposted before.
@@HeLivesForever25 Yeah?
Yes. The quality is extremely low. There isn't a camera made in the last 10 years that could produce a video that low in quality.@@TheProgressivePrimitivist
@@HeLivesForever25 You would be correct. It's a good thing the truth that Jerry Jones and Jimmy Allen presented still holds up!
John 3:3
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Baptist are the blind leaders of the blind.
I just wanna remind you that understanding of scripture comes by Spirit revealing it to us .And Spirit doesn't reveal all things to all christians at the same time .Those who aren't up to your position of understanding may still be brothers in the Lord and fully christian .Is your position that the only people getting into heaven today are the very ,very ,teeny weeny amount of people from COC church ?
Is what you gents teach about baptism what the early Fathers of the Catholic Church (first four centuries) unanimously taught? No.
The simplicity of the Word of God , drives the blind and deaf man crazy.
Why the do the baptist , baptize later after suppodsely being saved ?
Are you suggesting that baptism means nothing unless it saves you? That's sad.
@@HeLivesForever25 baptism has a purpose 🤦♂️.Why would you separate it?
@@HeLivesForever25 1 Peter 3:21
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
No salvation before baptism.
Baptist , believe they are saved by saying a false sinners prayer , if they are saved why would they baptize later ?
Oh and people are voted in for baptism?
When did the apostles vote for someone to be baptized?
Your response makes no sense. Peace.@@skooby619
Nothing you said addresses my question. Peace.@@skooby619
Dr. Bjournstadt is exegeting while the rest are just theologically and Scripture debating. The COC are bold does not mean i agree entirely with them. The Baptist guy holding his own weight alone. ❤😂 So much confusion in Christianity when it comes to dogmatism
Noah wasn't saved by water....he was saved by the Ark.
The water that destroyed the world was the same water that lifted the ark separating Noah and family from the punishment beneath it. Baptism saves us the same way by separating us from the punishment of mankind in eternity. It's not the water washing physical filth from us, but it's the way we can have a clear conscience toward God knowing that we've done through faith what he required to receive salvation we could never earn.
@@roysjudy That's just a made--up analogy that's not mentioned.
@@spacecoastz4026 That's the exact analogy from the text.
@@spacecoastz4026 1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV
which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were SAVED BY WATER. The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@@kac0404 "20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water." NKJV
You know what Peter meant...regardless of translation. They were NOT saved by the water, but from the water by the ark.
So the repentant man dying in the desert has no hope, God will have no grace or mercy upon that soul? I’m sorry the church of Christ is an outright cult.
The Sacrament of Baptism by water, either by sprinkling or by immersion, both being valid.
2. Baptism by Martyrdom, also called the "Baptism by blood," refers to the martyrdom of the believer who is killed for his/her faith before he/she had a chance to be baptized.
3. Baptism of Desire applies to those who wishing to be baptized, die before receiving the Sacrament. This desire may have been explicit (fully and clearly expressed) or implicit (implied but not directly expressed