The Gun that Almost Changed the United States Military
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- The H&K XM8 has a very interesting history. While never fully brought to market, it was on a trajectory that would've largely changed the small arms weaponry of the US military.
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Chapters
00:00 - Tonight on the show...
00:20 - XM Fireworks
03:05 - The Gray Room
05:14 - What was OICW?
08:35 - Early GWOT
10:58 - Correlation to G36
13:44 - Manual of arms
16:05 - How you can support us
17:03 - Modularity
18:47 - PCAP rail mounting system
20:23 - Optics
23:11 - Where did it all go wrong?
26:22 - Correlation to the Spear
28:22 - Firearms Legal Protection
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I remember seeing this in Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter and Battlefield Bad Company and thinking it was the coolest rifle ever (behind the G36C). Hell, there were still rumors circulating that it might still be adopted when I was going through Basic in 2008. Sucks it was cancelled cuz I think it really could have evolved into an excellent weapon system.
Isn’t it in black ops 2 aswell
The only one country bought the H&K XM8 Compact version firearms are the Royal Malaysia Navy Seal
I remember it from MGS4 and I didn't like it xD
2 other games that featured this gun were Rainbow Six Vegas and it’s sequel
@@AgentGAMER00J Yes! I totally forgot it was in that game and I literally started replaying it the other day.
I can't be the first person to notice that X in Roman numerals would be 10, or decem, which would make the actual name of that rifle the Decimate. THAT would be badass.
Damn I never realized that either and that is a sick play on it and I hope that it was their plan cause that would be bad ass for sure
I can't be the first person to notice that X in US army trials stand for experimental and final product would be called probably M8 not XM8 🤷♂
@@stanisawszczypua9076 Absolutely prawda. But marketing had become extremely valuable by this time, more and more young people were texting and using alphanumeric abbreviations similar to that (CUL8R) and the opportunity to start off with a name like Decimate would have been marketing genius and likely would have stuck around after the rifle gained acceptance. Of course, it's also possible that no one saw the connection (we're talking about engineers, after all...) and that it was just the name but that would be sad. I do know for a fact that the new MFR AR rifle from Dark Storm Industries is already being nicknamed the Em Effer, so jokes aren't lost on everyone in the industry.
@@stanisawszczypua9076😂
So the trial weapon is the ”Decimate” and when adopted, its just the “Mate”.
Ohhh that late 2000s fantasy gun nostalgia...MGS4, Ghost Recon,
Battlefield Bad Company!
Yes! Love how in Bad Company the Medic, Engineer, and Assault class all had a different settup for the XM-8.@@gr1mmy954
crysis trilogy (modified version of the XM8)
@@MikeDiazKJV1611I’m a little annoyed nobody in the comments have mentioned rainbow six vegas
It was so strong on MGO it was the most expensive AR hehe, miss survey mode oh god
I was (an admittedly small) part of the testing in Alaska. I wouldn't say there were NO issues... we found that the polymer frames were "softening" with extremely heavy fire, even in the colder weather. To say they were melting would be an overstatement, but there were some questions raised, for sure. Granted, the amount of rounds put through them were excessive, and unlikely for actual combat scenarios, but that was the whole point of the tests.
My understanding was that, ultimately, while big Army liked the XM8, it didn't provide a significant enough upgrade over the existing M4s to warrant large-scale adoption, particularly with some of the political and bureaucratic nonsense in the background... and we may be seeing the same scenario play out with the M5/M7/whatever they're calling the Spear now. Either way, it was kinda cool to put a few rounds through the XM8. Good video.
Yep. It's really hard to beat out a platform as entrenched as the AR, you pretty much have to offer a wunderwaffe to have a shot... the XM8 is cool, but at the end of the day it was a G36 with a fancy modular attachment system, is it really worth giving up compatibility with 40 years' worth of inventory at that time? Same reason I think the Spear will ultimately end up being in a very limited niche as a DMR at best. Stoner knew what he was doing.
@@Gigadweeband the g36 is itself just a German revision of the ar-18. Ultimately, I think the XM-8s downfall was it’s form factor. It’s one of the reasons the HK-416 exists, you get the best of both worlds. I whole heartedly believe if the Germans weren’t so autistic the US army would be the ones kitted out with the 416 as opposed to the marines/ or at least a decade before the marines did
@@GigadweebEven though i obviously agree that stoner knew what he was doing i dont think ar-15 is "the best". Army stands kinda inbetween "having an AR" but getting out of certain AR quirks and finally upgrading to something newer. Thats why we see a ton of short piston AR-likes. Also there is a reason why most of countries went with heavily AR18 inspired systems (bren, g36, mcx, msbs grot, acr, scar etc.) Inertia is hard to overcome and i think US will have same challanges migrating from AR-15/M4 like russia have moving from AK. Too much sunken cost since 1950's to just get rid of it.
@@GigadweebI'll still be grabbing my G3 or FAL before my Commando or any of my AR15's ❤
idk man I kinda don't trust the M7, but it's because I don't know much about it.
The production quality on 1911’s channel is 2nd to none. Great videos every time. The HK content is absolutely superb.
Thank you!
Totally agree. The only UA-cam videos that are more than 20 minutes that I bother setting aside time for are 1911 Syndicate and GarandThumb.
Way underrated 💯
The problem would be politics 🎉? The assault rifle perfect for all weather conditions + battle fields. Hard to replace m14 because mass produces now . What USA used do give to some special units. 100% replace the m14 would be impossible because of politics + competition.
If it weren't for the 1968 Gun Control Act, H&K could be making the big bucks selling civilian variants of the XM8 to the US market.
Manufacturing the appearance of the sale of firearms to a selection of those marketed as civilians? With all the [non-delete add-ons] to the transaction?
@@bunk95unless Germany didnt allow it. Thats why we cant get the G36 or MP7
@@brabblemaster401 And 5 days later, PSA announced they are working on their own version of the MP7 in 5.7
@@Saintbow yup. They just want all my money this year
The H&K XM-8 has everything you need, except for a built-in back scratcher.
Two is one, one is itchy. LOL
😂😂😂😂
@@aaronfarnsworth7653😂😂😂 that’s hilarious and I am the itchy one
😂😂😂
The XM8 will forever be my all time favorite assault rifle.
In my head, I heard Jeremy Clarkson's classic enthusiastic "TONIGHT..." with that intro. It made me realize just how influential Top Gear's cinematic edits have truly been, even for people who never watched it, in completely different genres of entertainment. Well done with this one, gentlemen!
Oh it’s 100% a nod to top gear. It’s my favorite show, I look up to those guys
Huh. This is genuinely fascinating, 1911 Syndicate with another behind the scene/ historic video. Thank you to all involved.
Thank you for watching and supporting sir 👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
I agree. Love this kinda content
Tonight on 1911 Syndicate: James Williamson is in his natural habitat, Chris shoots a spaceship gun, and Jake has an actual X in his hands, that not a fantasy Ex......
I'm getting very Top Gear intro vibes.. i love it
Had an airsoft gun XM8 as a kid. Loved the style. Cool to see the real thing in a video.
Me too... we had good childhoods lol
Hands down the coolest airsoft rifle I've ever owned lol
My first airsoft rifle was also an XM8. It was awesome.
Damn...this gun takes me back to the days of MERCENARIES 2: WORLD IN FLAMES. one of my favorite video games growing up and my favorite rifle to use in that game.
I've had the pleasure to handle several Tommybuild clones. It's bulkier in person but still cool
well...I didn't expect this one.
Please make a HK433 video!
Waiting on the USP45T vs the MK23!
to this day the XM8 is one of my favorite rifles.
I still remember when this was widely publicized in a 2005 article in Popular Mechanics, and was sooooooper excited!!
Now those are futuristic guns.
Thanks for that Top Gear style Jeremy Clarkson tone intro,it brought back my high school years
I tested this weapon in Panama while assigned to 3rd BN, 7th SFG(A).
Fun fact, the XM8 is still in active use by the Malaysian Navy, PASKAL.
It still baffles me and frustrates the hell out of me that they picked anything else over the XM8
You can get an H&K SL8 and have Tommy built convert it to XM8 spec but it’s gonna be very expensive
Yep. And super cool
His conversions aren’t the most reliable for how expensive they are
If it weren't for the overheating issue, this would have been a bad ass weapon system. Shame they didn't offer this for the civilian market in semi-auto. Would have loved to have one.
That was an easy fix, it's too bad..
the overheating issue isnt true, forgotten weapons made a good video about it.
Jake scratching Chris's back, is literally how my dad is lol. Everytime his back itches and can't get that spot, he asks me to scratch that spot for him lol
😂😂😂😂
Great video y’all! 👏
One of the better candy videos from you guys…great job.
Just an FYI. Those Ciguera belts are awesome. Have three now. Never knew they existed until your vids.
Legit! Glad to hear it
I remember reading about the OICW and Land Warrior projects in PC Gamer of all places in the late 90s. They were showing how the kit was supposed to work, the individual compute modules on custom Pentium III to link the camera feed from the weapon to the helmet and visor. Can't remember if it was in relation Delta Force: Land Warrior or the original Ghost Recon game.
Am I the only one?
Nope growing up I was a military fanatic and ended up reading the same stuff, I remember being 10 and comparing the Land Warrior idea to the UNSC Marines from Halo😂
It was in relation to Ghost Recon 2. In fact, the times it showed up in the game were completely themed around the XM29 OICW and its intended purpose. You would be solo in the missions you had it in and you would have to use the gun camera to peek corners, the laser designator to call in airstrikes on tanks, the 20mm to airburst targets behind cover, etc. It was really cool and made for a great way to show it off.
I was in the Airborne Infantry Company where we had the Land Warrior Test Platoon in the year 2000. They had gotten everything down-sized by that point, ruggedized, and actually working quite well. We had one problem where a guy’s battery exploded/caught fire in his vest down at JRTC. We thought a smoke grenade had gone off, because it looked like that. Land Warrior is where the M4 waffle buttstock was first fielded, along with the MICH Helmet developed by JSOC-A. The Helmet-Mounted Display actually worked, as did the digital compass, LRF, combat camera, GPS, integrated radio, and other features. The computer/Radio/GPS was a size of an iPhone 7 years before the iPhone came out, but the user interface was through a ruggedized mouse pad on the magazine well and the HMD display.
It was way ahead of its time.
I found out about the OICW from the original Ghost Recon game lol
What an informative, concise, and knowledge based video! It’s because of you guys that I finally purchased a MP5 (née SP5) after watching the “sub gun for adults” video (🤔or was that on the B&T GHM9? anywho, have one of those too b/c of your channel). My HK collection currently stands at 9 and just got back my tax stamp for the SP5. HK, if you’re listening (reading), give us both! A G36 and a XM8! This was such a great video that it’s creation along should justify making civilian versions!
Delta 254 WarDogs, Fort Benning GA. We got a bunch of these to test for a bit, was cool AF 🤙 damn, i miss those days 😂
Love this channel, solid work! Love HK firearms my whole life! Keep it up gents!!
Thanks 🍻
Two guys who tested this rifle ended up in my unit a couple months before we deployed. One said they hated not having a pic rail, the other hated the optic mount system. Both said those should be “universal” items on any rifle. Other than that the weapon performed well. The only person you had to convince back then to get funding for a DoD project was John McCain. FN, Colt and a multitude of other defense contractors had him by the horns as he was running for president.
I have heard this refered to as the "Tupperware" gun because of the the many colorful furniture changes that can be done with it.
Have to go through Tommy built to even attempt to get a taste of this exquisite piece of polymer
Great choice. Tommy does masterful work.
Great work.
I hope there will be a H&K 433 Video, soon.
Awesome video and a crazy deal getting to get in the HK room no idea how you swung that deal. 😂
This gun is forever stuck in my head because of Ghost Recon 2 and Rainbow Six Vegas 2.
Everytime a HK video drops, I don't think it could possibly get better...then it does again and again! Great work gents. (Upvote for Jame's hair too 👍)
Only one more left in the series
Season 3? @@1911syndicate
@@alexshakkThat’s the plan
Make it look more like Starship Troopers said someone, somewhere.
Thank you all for the video 👍🏻 I hope you all your families and friends had a good holiday.
I read an article around 12 years ago on this program. I’ve had the opportunity to fire the G3, 36 and 36C but I’ve never even seen an XM8 in person.
A guy brought a TommyBuilt XM8 to a 3 gun match last year, and man, it took me back to watching the Military Channel and History Channel with my dad in the mid 2000s.
The idea of the charging handle being able to assist the round into battery is awesome. One of my big gripes with modern guns / charging handles is being scared a round will get stuck 3/4 of the way
Used to live a few miles from the grey room.
Kraut. Space. Magic.
Pretty awesome that a Stoner is still so successful after many attempts to dethrone it.
I love this series can't say it enough how cool these video's are. I remeber seeing the xm8 and the m27 on future weapons. Crazy how their time line's and storys ended out. I remember using the xm8 in the Navy seal socom games and got an airsoft version cause i thought thats what the army would be using but then we got the hk416 love.
🍻
Sick video bros 🤙
You guys are crushing it
Thanks dude but YOU are crushing it
Dude, is that a clear / translucent G36 in the top right corner? BRO i want to see that
I did like fielding the two OICW Operators in the original Ghost Recon games. There is something about the look of “the fish gun” that is unique. Even an airsoft wall hanger would be cool. The choice of G36 mags gets knocked but their were few options then over the rather worn stanag/usgi issue. I seem to remember problems with the early Magpul feed lips.
Smart Parts made a paintball mockup for the rifle. Great ergos and overall look. Owning one of these for real is dream fuel.
Imagine an updated XM8 without that handguard, with a picatinny rail system, and a foldable/adjustable shoulder stock...
There is one picture of it
So, pretty much a G36A3.
@@ropeburn6684 there is a version of that
Honestly the XM8 is and always has been just another G36 with a slightly different plastic shell that could be swapped around.
How many guns have a slightly different plastic shell as iconic as xm8 though? Also it is designed by BMW.
not to be that guy... but to be that guy. You got those swapped around. G36 is another XM8 with new shell, but what you meant is true lol.
@@19DESERTFOX91 No he is right. G36 production started in 1996. XM8 production started in 2003.
It would be cool to have a video on the hk45, since it was made for the delta force, an improved hk usp, technically an improved mark23? Maybe also the prototype for the 4.6x30 pistol too. HK 1911?
I’m sure we’ll do a HK45 cod at some point
not an improvement to lose the recoil reduction system and decrease capacity… USP45T wins over HK45CT
@@reker.a5790 Yes, for some people the usp is better, the improvements of the hk45(for delta, not necessarily for everyone else) are:rounded slide, helps with reholstering. Decreased capacity, to fit all sizes of hands, but still "enough for their purposes", it has better ergonomics in general. It was meant to be carried cocked and locked, so it's harder to press the decocker, although hk pistols can be converted to decocker only, safety only, and other configurations. The usp recoil spring can reduce the felt recoil, but the hk45 spring configuration allows the soldier to fire faster, since the gun doesn't move a lot. Also a reminder that Delta force used pistols as primary weapons to do counter terrorism, not just for defensive purposes, accuracy and ergonomics are more important to them, that's why they used 1911s.
Trying to read between the lines here, ".....some things that we are going to be very happy to have here in the U.S." my HK sense is tingling.
the fact the hk presenter keeps calling it a starship troopers gun. just makes it all the cooler in my opinion. I also like that this is basically the origin of mlock.
That XM 29 was used in Red Faction 2. That's awesome.
Seeing the controls for the bolt release/hold open, mag release, and forward assist make me love this gun even more now. I know the issues could have been worked out. ;~;
This video makes me want to buy this weapon all over again. Too bad that means forking out thousands or somehow convincing someone in Malaysia (if I remember it right) to get me one. It's so nice to see such a nice video.
At the time I was a little confused by the XM8. I couldn't quite see why the Army would adopt a whole new rifle with no parts compatibility, including magazines, with all the expense and logistical headaches that would entail, but keep the 5.56. It's a cool rifle on its own merits, but still it seems like cancelling it was absolutely the right call.
Yup. XM8 was a streamlined G36 with those bulky mags. The modular system approach is nice, but AR-15/M4 already was a modular system, just not used as such by anyone until SOCOM did the Block iterations, SPR, and Mk.18.
That’s kind of what I’m thinking too. It may be a better rifle or it may not have been, but it was the wrong time to have something with such little compatibility with what we already had stored.
best syndicate plug of all time lmao
So glad it was not adopted based on looks alone.
You think so?
I did not see that coming for a video with you guys. Either way amazing video. I’m curious what’s the next video is. Also side note does hk make shotguns?
H&K has an unusual history with shotguns, but does not currently manufacture any.
@@teufelshundtactical thank you I seen them and was curious.
Glad some video games like black ops2 and battlefield bad company 2 brings variants of the xm8 to light sad its rarely used in around military usages
Sick video! I love this whole series man. Side question I’m going to ask again because last time you said I was an idiot and you didn’t have woodland camo pants on…. But you did in the belt ad portion so I’ll ask one more time lol what are those woodland camo pants Jake has on at 4:45 in the Ciguera b roll…. Please? ❤😢
Crye g3
add bringing back memories of the xm25 grenade launcher. i remember using this in a video game BF2142, it was so intuitive, as a airburst grenade launcher. you have automatic range finder pointing at the wall of the enemy and add a few incremental steps beyond and it would explode right behind the wall when you launch it. It would prevent choke point camping
That wholesome back scratch made me subscribe so fast
I called it the fish gun back when it debuted. I still call it that today.
I’ve love the way the blue looks against the white is just divine. I’ll probably add some red in some places as a tertiary color. Thank for the review, I’m slowly becoming more and more warm to P-Bandai/Gundam Base. (Sadly)
Awesome video, guys! That XM8 is hot! 🥵 I wouldn’t kick it out of my gunsafe.
Neither would I
I want the grey room!!!! Well everything in there lol!!!!!
The Croatian VHS-2 in full auto is basically a bullpup version of this, maybe they should come out with an XM8 body kit upgrade..🤔
That thing is SWEET!
I was issued the m27 from Hk when I was in the Marines and it was a sweet rifle. Accurate, the range was great, still manageable for cqb, light, very durable and reliable and the recoil I’m sure you could imagine was very manageable on full auto. After that rifle I was hooked on Hk.
We did a vid on the M27 a couple months back. We love it as well
@@1911syndicate I’m gonna have to go check it out
I'll remember the HK promo video where a guy mag dumps the XM8 single-handed.
I think the Achilles heel of the rifle is its propriety attachments.
Great Stuff 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Great video, I was in SF at the time, and we tried it.Was whole heartily rejected by team guys.
On what was that rejection primarily based?
Very cool that you guys got to check out some of these unobtainable type guns. I’ll never get a chance to see then so it’s cool to at least see them in a video lol if you can’t tell I have the usual love/hate relationship with H&K😂 mostly out of jealousy cause we can’t get lots of their coolest stuff. That and their attitude in not giving two shits about a civilian fan base which I can’t blame them. Most manufacturers dream of having a ton of government and agency/departments contracts so I can’t hate on them. If I had a customer base with blank checks I’d probably prefer/accommodate to them as well 😂
the reason they dont sell more models too civiies isnt because they dont want to. its a german law thing. least, thats what ive heard. i think from that 3rd guy in the video in one of their earliest hk videos with him.
When i was in the army my unit was issued a few of them and we ranged fired them a few times. I really enjoyed firing it, i understand the drawbacks but there was a lot of promise with it.
Thanksgiving continues. I'm so blessed.
Honestly, this would still be a viable weapon system with just a few minor tweaks. Add MLOK rail to the front, a mounting system atop the carry handle, and make it compatible with AR mags and it would probably sell.
I love the way this rifle looks. Wish it went into production.
Oh yeah and... H&K PLEASE GIVE US A CIVILIAN VERSION OF THE MP7 ALREADY!
Thank you somebody said it before I did
I think you'd have an easier time convincing them to produce civilian XM8 rifles over the MP7. Something about German laws not allowing HK to export a civilian variant of the MP7, while HK does have the means to produce these XM8 rifles in country.
HK is my favorite gun manufacturer. The XM8 series of rifles were my favorite. The G36 is my favorite overall.
Interesting..good video..
🤙🏻
The gun looks so futuristic and cool.
That first "prototype" monstrosity, with the top mounted grenade launcher seems to have at the very least heavily inspired the South Korean Daewoo K11. Kind of cool to see an example that was/is used
Honestly crazy how this thing 20 years later, this thing still could probably outperform a good chunk of service rifles. I really think if you took the XM8 and modernized it with MLOK, a more narrow profile, mainly lowering that carry handle and thinning that handguard, you'd have a really solid modern weapon. infact I'd say the closest modern equivalent in terms of aesthetics and modularity is the Perun X16 which follows closely the XM8s design, and even takes its unrelated predecessors like the ACRs form factor into account.
The XM8 had a really cool futuristic look. But now the closest thing that comes to mind is the FN SCAR with the similar retractable stock.
The XM8 just -looks- awesome.
I saw this gun in ghost recon and promptly joined the marine corps only to be issued an m16a4
Yup, weapon cost too much to make
Probably already answered in the comments, but @ 26:00 its mentioned possible US production of a weapon. 433? MP7? New CCW pistol? Thanks for another quality vid, BTW.
I don’t know nothin lol
that cartridge ejection . . .. cash money
i kinda wonder if 416 upper came along earlier would it have been adopted as an upgrade to existing m4s and m16s instead of trying to modify the g36 for us military adoption,
also i hope you guys get to see "hk 1911" prototype i remember larry vickers talked about it briefly sometime ago
Really wish P-caps took off. I can understand ditching the charging handle and carrying handle, and I can understand preferring picatinny for mounting optics.
P-caps are straight up better for minor accessories.
I hope we are about to get some cool civilian hk rifles soon
German government will make sure that never happens
SURE! That'll be 5k for a piston driven AR that performs about as well as a $1500 AR15! Loooooook, the bolt doesn't get hot! So fancy, so worth it!
/S
Honestly, I could not care less if H&K ever releases civilian versions of any of their products again because they'll be priced well above what they are worth and what they bring to the table. They are like KAC to me... dead, mostly, but too proud to understand their product's placement in the firearms picture. Most guns they make are solutions to problems that either don't exist, or don't exist for 99.99% of civilians using them priced at a price point well above the competition and offers effectively nothing over it.
Don’t hold your breath and they would be massively overpriced
I can't wait to see Fuddblasters review this gun.
That HK room is haunted. Lol